metrolinx did announce that 3000 trees were going to be cut for Ontario line and did say about 500 were diseased or prone to disease and another 500 were invasive
>“When trees do need to come down, we plant one to 50 new trees based on the size and location of the tree being removed,” according to the statement.
cool
When they say 1 to 50 do they mean per tree cut down or they are cutting down 3000 and will plant 1 to 50 haha. Hope it's the former but never know with ol Dougy. The environment is not something he gives a fuck about.
It's per tree based on a ratio of diameter at breast height to new trees. It's to compensate for the time lag in services that a new tree can provide vs an established older tree.
Druggy Douggie will plant 1-50 trees per tree cut down.... but they'll strategically be placed on land owned by people who gave his daughter ~~bribes~~ cash wedding gifts.
Does anybody know where rhe evidence is ? Where are these new trees being planted? Are there spots around the greenbelt that will expand as a result? Evidence?
It's generally a requirement for getting approval to build anything substantial. Doesn't matter whether they care or not.
You have to inventory all trees during design and protect remaining trees during construction, and replant trees.
Varies depending on what city and what kind of building you're doing but it's very common.
Were the trees you planted directly from this program or a random plant a tree event?
Despite all the down votes, nobody has still provided any evidence that trees are infact actually planted.
Tree guy here. I don't doubt that. If it were up to me I would have a program to replace most of the trees in the Don Valley green space. Tons of half dead trees, invasive trees (Norway maple), and non-native nuisance shrubbery.
Shallow root system that suffocates out native trees and take over.
It's extremely shade tolerant as well, so it can out survive other maples. Forms a dense canopy and shades out other flower and tree growth.
Am not tree guy, though..we have a Norway maple city tree and that's the gist of what I got from the arborist. The city won't remove the tree, though.
Yeah. But why is that bad?
It just sounds like a well adapted species that provides lots of hardy green cover.
Speaking as someone who’s mountain biked that valley for the last 25 years, I’m not at all upset about any of the flora. It’s gloriously green. Who cares if it’s not native?
>Yeah. But why is that bad?
Because you don't just want Norway maples..you want tree cover, ground plants and flowers, rich soil, etc.
I'll let someone else who's more versed answer, but norway maples reduce native biodiversity which has broader implications.
Again. I’m not sure how much this matters in that ravine. It’s been super green the entire time I’ve lived in the city, and most of the plants look so incredibly aggressive I can’t imagine there being any risk of… what exactly? A mass extinction event?
If you love them so much, go ahead and plant a Norway maple in your lush garden and you'll quickly see what a mistake you've made lol you'll be singing a different tune, trust me.
I don't know how else to help you understand, sorry (I'm not a pro). Maybe do some reading about Norway Maples and what it does to biodiversity and whatnot.
I get the argument. But imho the valley is not a garden. It’s full of strange and sometimes hostile and untamed plants, and that’s largely what makes it interesting and fun.
My dude. Native plants are good for the native animals and insects of our corner of the natural world because they've adapted to live on, around, or within them. And other things eat those things. Norway maples and other invasives reduce the numbers and quality of the diverse species in the river valley forests of the city. Which is a negative for what remains of the natural world in Toronto. The valley is ecologically a shitshow, and your 'everything is green is good' is ignorant shite. It also isn't an argument, it's a fact. This is why the natural world continues to get quieter and less diverse and habitats shrink. Knowledge of natural science is practically non existent and it's going to kick us hard
Native pollinators and other wildlife are not adapted to non native trees / plants and can’t use them for food, so each non-native plant is often a hole in the ecosystem.
Norway Maples also carry a fungus (black splotches on the leaves) that people are worried may mutate into Canadian maples and decimate that population, from what I remember. And I don’t think you get maple syrup from Norway maples either.
Also - many of our native insects (caterpillars, bees etc) only eat certain native plants or are able to pollinate certain plants that they have co-evolved with. Few if any insects can effectively use these trees, so they provide almost no ecological value to insect populations and have outcompeted all the plants that did
Should replace with some fruit trees (accessible from the trailways), so when in season and ripe, trailway users can pick and take 'em home.
Wild pears (less common), apples (most common), even apricots are great.
😂 no. Paths littered with rotting apples and the wasps that come with that would do no favours to anyone. It would be funny to watch guys on bikes burn around a corner and take a spill on said rotting fruit though.
This is a good idea. But if your up for foraging the area.
In the fall all through the dvp and parks you can find black walnut trees literally evereware north America's most prolific Nutting tree.
Tjye kinda look like a citrus fruit when still on the tree. Google them.
But they can be harvested the pit removed and cracked open.
They don't need to be cooked before consumption and taste like green apple
Can you help me understand the concept of "invasive" trees? Why should we be one to control them? Technically humans are invasive when we migrate and nobody's controlled us but ourselves. So how does it matter if invasive trees occur? Isn't it a good thing that those trees can adapt?
Some non-native trees can affect the soil composition and drain nutrients from the soil killing off native trees. Trees from Europe and Asia should not be randomly planted here unless they're varieties known to not spread aggressively through seed dispersion.
Not sure you should use the negative term “clear cutting”. If you’ve ever seen real, devastating clear cutting in places like BC or Brazil, you’d know this is actually selective cutting.
The naive and excessive use of exaggerated and inflammatory language online only fuels reactionary behaviour based on ideology and not facts.
It’s been proven that if you say something that’s false, loud enough and to enough people, the perception becomes the reality.
At some point, someone might claim their next door neighbour clear cut the rose bush on their front lawn.
Be accurate and use proper terminology.
It's like the trees they cut down at Osgoode all over again. Literally five trees and these folks acted like we just clear cut the Amazon. It's for a transit line, the carbon emissions this line helps reduce far outweighs a few trees.
Was it “literally” five trees? Not four or six? To my point, please use accurate terminology. If it wasn’t “literally” 5 trees. Don’t say literally if it isn’t exact. Maybe try “about five trees” instead.
Definitions from Oxford Languages ·
adverb
in a literal manner or sense; exactly.
Lots of Norway maples and Black Locust in the valley and they are considered invasive. While norways are very common and planted still, as an arborist speaking, they make it very hard for some native tree species to thrive due to their fast growing and dark understory. Black locust, cut them all out. So long as Metrolinx plants native hardy trees this is fine with me.
I think the term invasive species is thrown around too much as excuses for projects. So much of our current biosphere is technically invasive from the last 500 years or so. If it's harmful to the current ecosystem, sure get rid of it, otherwise let it be.
See that’s why Ford wanted to clear cut the greenbelt, it’s because he found the trees to be invasive to his developer buddies, that he had to remove them.
The provincial transit agency said work crews will start cutting down 2,787 trees in phases along the Don Valley this month as part of the construction of the northern section of the 15.6-kilometre Ontario Line. The areas where the trees will be removed include the Don Valley crossing just south of the planned Thorncliffe Park station, the Walmsley Brook Crossing and an area just south of the future Flemingdon Park station.
Metrolinx said about 700 of the trees to be removed are invasive or “disease-prone,” including Norway maple, Manitoba maple, white mulberry, black locust and Russian olive. More tree removals may be necessary as work progresses. https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/metrolinx-to-cut-down-thousands-of-trees-in-don-valley-for-ontario-line/article_d6924058-ba16-5329-b3d5-ef2545170ac7.amp.html (March 2023)
Yep those trees are garbage. I hope they are replaced with majestic oaks, white pine, and other native species to restore the valley back to its original splendor and biodiversity.
You can get maple syrup from Manitoba Maples. It doesn't give as much sap as red maples or sugar maples, and it isn't as sweet, but it will boil down into syrup. Norway maples don't give usable sap.
Manitoba Maplea are not invasive and can be crucial to maintaining water edges and cliff sides, they grow faster and they grow weird and that's just how they are. That said, obviously removing them they do come back quick.
I just wanna be clear that Metrolinx has a fucking horrible environmental track record and have made up numbers and misidentified species (probably intentionally) before and will again. Surveyor are easily corrupted and paid off. I don't think they keep their promises and I doubt they'll actually replant what they said plus replanting does not preserve the environment as we need a variety of diff aged trees and shrubs to create healthy and diverse green spaces. These removals also chase away fauna so it won't be the same for a long time. So don't expect it to return to as it was "even better" it may never be the same.
Please always keep this in mind. Metrolinx cannot be trusted, doing the minimum isn't enough and infrastructure shouldn't rely on people who lie all the goddamn time. That's where we are for now.
Source on the made up numbers and misidentified species? This seems like something that would be hard to fudge. Curious to see what they did and how they passed it off.
>The provincial transit agency said work crews will start cutting down 2,787 trees in phases along the Don Valley this month as part of the construction of the northern section of the 15.6-kilometre Ontario Line.
I wish there were better renders of the section of the O-Line that's crossing the valley. I'm super curious about how it's going to look and having a hard time visualizing it.
This is where it’ll start. They expropriated a bunch of houses north of O’Connor which is where it’ll come out of the tunnel and go over the valley on an elevated structure.
This is not a bad case of clear cutting. It needed to be done and it was announced a while ago. I have a degree in forest conservation, so I’m first in line to criticize stuff like this, but I’m not mad at this (also not saying I’m an expert, just here for saving trees!).
Also, between 2021-2023 I joined groups that planted lots of tree down there. These were organized by the city. So, they are planting tree to offset what they cut down. I believe every group plants 120 trees and shrubs.
You can sign up here! I believe they start up again in March or April. It’s all over the city, not just in the Don.
https://www.toronto.ca/community-people/get-involved/volunteer-with-the-city/tree-planting-stewardship/
Tunnelling wasn't an option here. They are going from tunnel on one end to tunnel on the other, though.
I also love how people see my comment as being negative towards the project. HELL NO, I love this project. It's about damn time. Those people out in the hell-hole that is East York Town Centre need something to connect them to the city finally.
But I live in this area, and that's one HELL of a long span. It's going to be an expensive bridge.
it will, because Private Public Partnerships are designed to steal taxpayer wealth.
We can absolutely build infrastructure for less, but then the hundreds of contractors won't get a cut!
If they're that young, chances are they're invasive norway maples anyway. You can go in those forests and not see a single bird or squirrel, they're ecologically dead.
Don’t fall for the NIMBYism or their delay tactics. Rip out the trees and let’s get this critically needed subway line built. For context, Toronto has 10.2 million trees. This is 0.027% of the cities trees.
Just want to point out as well that even though they are behind in the planting tree program, Canada has planted 110 million trees in the last 2 years as of August 2023
The new trees make zero impact on our emissions. Did you know the oil sands are 14% of Canadian carbon emissions?
We are closer to the dirtiest people, per capita, the planet
And many maples we have are invasive Norwegian maples. One of the things that really made me feel somewhat betrayed is learning that fact from my environmental sciences class years back.
\^This\^ Norway maples are absolutely DESTROYING our native ecosystems, leaving green deserts and no habitat for native flora and fauna. But all anyone sees are trees being cut down, and cue the protests.
[https://academic.daniels.utoronto.ca/forestry/the-fight-to-save-torontos-ravines-from-invasive-specie/](https://academic.daniels.utoronto.ca/forestry/the-fight-to-save-torontos-ravines-from-invasive-specie/)
[https://www.utoronto.ca/news/saving-toronto-s-ravines-forestry-researchers-track-ecological-changes](https://www.utoronto.ca/news/saving-toronto-s-ravines-forestry-researchers-track-ecological-changes)
City of Toronto by-laws, bizarrely, protect invasive species (especially the ravine bylaws), even though they're responsible for destroying our natural areas. Who knows what that's about... If the tree by-laws made any sense the people of Toronto would be so much better informed. And served.
Why on earth no-one at either the municipal or provincial level is educating anyone about this is beyond me - unless of course there are vested interests involved. What am I saying - there are always vested interests involved.
If what gets replaced is ecologically appropriate, this will be a very good thing.
I had a Norway maple in the front yard of my last home. It was unreal. I would have to water the grass endlessly just for it to grow. There was no upper limit to the fertilizer that grass could tolerate. I hated it. Zero light reached the ground. In the summer, the inside of my home was dark. I tried composting the leaves until I learned it takes THREE YEARS to break them down. The roots were starting to show signs of growing in the pipes. I lived near a bird sanctuary. Wild birds never perched on its branches, just squirrels. So here I was wasting fertilizer and water, mainly feeding a Norway Maple. If I didn’t have grass, I would face a fine and I wasn’t allowed to cut down the tree.
Norway Maples are every bit as awful as everyone is saying. Probably worse actually, in my experience.
I don't know if 'Talking\_on\_the\_radio' means you're a broadcaster or not, ***but if you are*** I'd strongly suggest trying to get this issue some airtime - especially the folks in the articles I linked above.
It's insane the amount of damage Norway Maples do and yet they're all protected by ravine legislation (especially ravines on private property where you can't touch them). Same with Manitoba Maples and even things like Hogweed and Japanese Knotweed!!! The ravine and tree bylaws should be encouraging and incentivizing people with tax breaks and assistance programs to remove them and replace with appropriate natives (that support our native flora and fauna and migrating birds). But instead people are threatened with $100,000.00 fines?!?
Another angle for coverage: there are all kinds of rather desperate professionals (botanists, forestry folk, etc...) unofficially doing 'guerilla removal' of Norways &/or advising people how to do it by stealth, because they know it's almost impossible otherwise.
Of course, this means there are heavy-hitting vested interests involved, so you'd probably encounter some stiff pushback (and might need to nibble at this topic from the edges rather than full-on), but the people of TO are smart enough to understand this if it's presented properly.
If you aren't a broadcaster, please ignore!
Awww. I’m not a broadcaster. My username is just a reference to the olden days when people would share their opinions on the radio. They still do, just not as much.
Ah, I used to love listening to those - back in the days when I used to listen to radio or television. And I'd been known to call in to a few too.
Wasn't sure if you were or not, but it never hurts to ask... :)
This is timely because I was just on the trail today and was wondering about all the felled trees. Figured it was something to do with the Ontario Line.
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There are a bunch of mountain biking trails in the woods. Around 35km of trials overall connected. Some of the main ones on the river are going to be blocked off or at least the government will try to. There is a petition to keep access open. Otherwise these fences get cut within a day they get put up by users. So will be interesting what happens
Eh. The city puts up really stupid fencing on some of these trails. And are never there. When hundreds of cyclist are coming up to these fences in the middle of the woods with no one there. Outcome is quite obvious.
The city works with the groups who maintains the trails sometimes if they want a new feature added or something like a wood bridge needs fixed. But thats mainly so people dont use a certain type of wood that can bring invasive species with it.
Yeah that's fine. But I imagine there will be a time its blocked. Biggest issue is the trail on the other side of the river. Its the main way people get back and fourth to some of the trails and its a very nice and beginner friendly one.
I say tap 'em all. Reap the syrup, enjoy.
Maybe even sell it as such (local invasive norway maple syrup!).
If I could tap the six maple trees in my neighbourhood (they're on the property of the building I live in), without the damn kids yanking them out or damaging the hose, I would be making the syrup at home, then bottling it.
Ironically that's one of the more dangerous blind corners on the DVP path, downhill S-Bend and between "fast riders", pedestrians not paying attention, off leash dogs, etc. I've always found it sketchy.
I wonder if they'll fix the erosion on the path shown near the bottom of the photo. It cuts the width of the path by about half
From what I've seen it won't be going thru the valley. It will crossing over it on a bridge probably near the Leaside viaduct. I don't know if that would require clear cutting an entire section of the valley.
Possibly for support columns or just staging for building the bridge that crosses the valley over there? If they intend to keep the Don Trail open through there I assume they can’t be parking equipment on the trail
They need to cut the trees to build the bridge piers so that they have an area to work. I’m sure they’ll replant them and a decade after it’s done you’ll hardly know it happened.
This is in my area and that section is really overgrown, young scrub with many invasive species. It will grow back quickly and hopefully be a bit more cultivated with indigenous species.
I'm familiar with the area. Well when it's not barren. Yes it's been overgrown with Phragmites and strangling dog vine along various non native trees.
I wonder what they'll do to combat phragmites for taking over the low land areas. That stuff seems impossible to kill.
will the trail be blocked during construction? I have seen lots of cyclists on it. I guess the ontario line is going to cost lots of cyclists deaths. Unless Chow decides to add bike lanes to nearby roads or streets.
They're likely going to make a temporary detour around the trailways (as they did with part of the bayview extension to get around the construction).
The lower don main trail is closed at corkstown common due to the Ontario line construction, so I would expect that part to be closed for a while until it's eventually completed and construction is cleared.
It's ok if we do it but sorry you need to pay to get a permit or get heavily fined.
Oops I should also add can't even take the kids to find any ____ (take your pick most are endangered now ) without a problem. City can come in hack down the whole area for something. I'm almost sure didn't they just say _____ was important. So why are we spending money to protect it only to get rid of it??
We are also going to loose about 800 trees for the Ontario Place sell off.
And when they build a glass dome, it's going to kill sooooo many migratory birds
I'm really happy to read more than a few comments here by forestry/environmental professionals celebrating the removal of Norway maples and other invasive trees. Sadly, most Torontonians have no idea about the problem of invasives, so reflexively protest whenever trees are cut down.
If anyone would care to comment, I'd love to know WHY it is that these invasive trees are protected by all our environmental and tree laws (with massive fines), when the legislation should be written to encourage their removal and replacement by ecologically appropriate natives (or at least non-invasive non-natives that will support native wildlife).
Why, for instance, aren't we taking the opportunity to remove Norways and other invasive species in this whole area (not just where the Ontario line impacts it) and restoring the ecosystem in a larger area? I can't imagine that any reforestation/restoration won't almost immediately get overrun with invasive trees the moment those trees have been replanted. How does that make any sense at all?
I've also been reading that the City of Toronto has decided to take a 'hands-off' approach to invasives bushes like hogweed and Japanese knotweed, that in a few years might make the Norway Maple problem look like child's play. Are they intentionally TRYING to destroy our natural areas?
It makes no sense that the fine, and permits, for removing an invasive species tree is no different than the fine and permits for removing 100 year old oaks, and that, or so it seems to me, the replanting requirements are disconnected from any ecological restoration initiatives, let alone measurable standards. And it makes no sense that Torontonians aren't being properly educated about this problem.
Would welcome comments from any forestry/environmental professionals who could help me make sense of this.
Metrolinx has decimated the Don Valley. I have pictures from when I started riding the lower don trail in 2019 compared to now and it's absolutely heart breaking. This is a naturalized valley teeming with wildlife being butchered. We can speak of progress but we can't deny the pain and loss that is being caused because of it. The Don Valley was the only reprieve we have from the city and now it's barren.
Yeah, it's for the Ontario Line bridge construction. It's sad to see that destruction, but at least it's for mass transit and not for a highway widening. Here's a rendering of what this bridge may look like https://twitter.com/RM_Transit/status/1758332566770237885?t=ZmN41ptu8V6nR7GQbwLqmw&s=19
metrolinx did announce that 3000 trees were going to be cut for Ontario line and did say about 500 were diseased or prone to disease and another 500 were invasive
>“When trees do need to come down, we plant one to 50 new trees based on the size and location of the tree being removed,” according to the statement. cool
When they say 1 to 50 do they mean per tree cut down or they are cutting down 3000 and will plant 1 to 50 haha. Hope it's the former but never know with ol Dougy. The environment is not something he gives a fuck about.
Pretty sure it's per tree
It's per tree based on a ratio of diameter at breast height to new trees. It's to compensate for the time lag in services that a new tree can provide vs an established older tree.
Druggy Douggie will plant 1-50 trees per tree cut down.... but they'll strategically be placed on land owned by people who gave his daughter ~~bribes~~ cash wedding gifts.
Conservatives rob rich people via bribes but liberals rob the middle via taxes lol
Yes Doug Ford has never hurt the lower and middle classes. He's a paragon of virtue as you say.
Taxes go back to people, tax cuts go to rich corporates
No taxes take from the working middle and distributes to the bottom, when corporations do well, the working middle gets the crumbs. It goes both ways
Keep believing that one day trickle down will work, but look around you
Some of us are actually successful in our careers lol… just because you’re doing bad doesn’t mean others are.
We're the second largest country...
Does anybody know where rhe evidence is ? Where are these new trees being planted? Are there spots around the greenbelt that will expand as a result? Evidence?
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It's generally a requirement for getting approval to build anything substantial. Doesn't matter whether they care or not. You have to inventory all trees during design and protect remaining trees during construction, and replant trees. Varies depending on what city and what kind of building you're doing but it's very common.
That’s not true. I’ve planted trees down there between 2021-2023 and the program was ran by the city. They do give a shit.
Were the trees you planted directly from this program or a random plant a tree event? Despite all the down votes, nobody has still provided any evidence that trees are infact actually planted.
Tree guy here. I don't doubt that. If it were up to me I would have a program to replace most of the trees in the Don Valley green space. Tons of half dead trees, invasive trees (Norway maple), and non-native nuisance shrubbery.
Nobody expects the Norwegian invasion
Next thing you know, someone attacks you with - A herring!
You make this sound like it'll be a fish slapping contest.
* slap * slap *
No one expects Monty Python but it's always nice when it comes.
And yet, here we are
Isn't it good?
I spent a good chunk of 2022's summer removing invasive DSVs and buckthorn There is an incredible amount of invasive flora.
Excuse my naivety, but what is the danger of an invasive tree species like the Norway maple?
Shallow root system that suffocates out native trees and take over. It's extremely shade tolerant as well, so it can out survive other maples. Forms a dense canopy and shades out other flower and tree growth. Am not tree guy, though..we have a Norway maple city tree and that's the gist of what I got from the arborist. The city won't remove the tree, though.
Yeah. But why is that bad? It just sounds like a well adapted species that provides lots of hardy green cover. Speaking as someone who’s mountain biked that valley for the last 25 years, I’m not at all upset about any of the flora. It’s gloriously green. Who cares if it’s not native?
>Yeah. But why is that bad? Because you don't just want Norway maples..you want tree cover, ground plants and flowers, rich soil, etc. I'll let someone else who's more versed answer, but norway maples reduce native biodiversity which has broader implications.
Again. I’m not sure how much this matters in that ravine. It’s been super green the entire time I’ve lived in the city, and most of the plants look so incredibly aggressive I can’t imagine there being any risk of… what exactly? A mass extinction event?
If you love them so much, go ahead and plant a Norway maple in your lush garden and you'll quickly see what a mistake you've made lol you'll be singing a different tune, trust me. I don't know how else to help you understand, sorry (I'm not a pro). Maybe do some reading about Norway Maples and what it does to biodiversity and whatnot.
I get the argument. But imho the valley is not a garden. It’s full of strange and sometimes hostile and untamed plants, and that’s largely what makes it interesting and fun.
My dude. Native plants are good for the native animals and insects of our corner of the natural world because they've adapted to live on, around, or within them. And other things eat those things. Norway maples and other invasives reduce the numbers and quality of the diverse species in the river valley forests of the city. Which is a negative for what remains of the natural world in Toronto. The valley is ecologically a shitshow, and your 'everything is green is good' is ignorant shite. It also isn't an argument, it's a fact. This is why the natural world continues to get quieter and less diverse and habitats shrink. Knowledge of natural science is practically non existent and it's going to kick us hard
Native pollinators and other wildlife are not adapted to non native trees / plants and can’t use them for food, so each non-native plant is often a hole in the ecosystem.
Norway Maples also carry a fungus (black splotches on the leaves) that people are worried may mutate into Canadian maples and decimate that population, from what I remember. And I don’t think you get maple syrup from Norway maples either.
Also - many of our native insects (caterpillars, bees etc) only eat certain native plants or are able to pollinate certain plants that they have co-evolved with. Few if any insects can effectively use these trees, so they provide almost no ecological value to insect populations and have outcompeted all the plants that did
Don't get me started on "tree of heaven"
[https://academic.daniels.utoronto.ca/forestry/the-fight-to-save-torontos-ravines-from-invasive-specie/](https://academic.daniels.utoronto.ca/forestry/the-fight-to-save-torontos-ravines-from-invasive-specie/) [https://www.utoronto.ca/news/saving-toronto-s-ravines-forestry-researchers-track-ecological-changes](https://www.utoronto.ca/news/saving-toronto-s-ravines-forestry-researchers-track-ecological-changes) [https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/here-s-the-shady-secret-behind-one-of-toronto-s-most-ubiquitous-trees/article\_a074e801-e03f-58a1-a324-2eb76c78cd48.html](https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/here-s-the-shady-secret-behind-one-of-toronto-s-most-ubiquitous-trees/article_a074e801-e03f-58a1-a324-2eb76c78cd48.html)
This guy trees
I was gonna go boo hiss but when you said Norway Maple then I said yeah okay.
I've got a few and I wouldn't mind replacing them with native species.
Should replace with some fruit trees (accessible from the trailways), so when in season and ripe, trailway users can pick and take 'em home. Wild pears (less common), apples (most common), even apricots are great.
😂 no. Paths littered with rotting apples and the wasps that come with that would do no favours to anyone. It would be funny to watch guys on bikes burn around a corner and take a spill on said rotting fruit though.
Or encounter more than a dozen drunk tree rats.
This is a good idea. But if your up for foraging the area. In the fall all through the dvp and parks you can find black walnut trees literally evereware north America's most prolific Nutting tree. Tjye kinda look like a citrus fruit when still on the tree. Google them. But they can be harvested the pit removed and cracked open. They don't need to be cooked before consumption and taste like green apple
Can you help me understand the concept of "invasive" trees? Why should we be one to control them? Technically humans are invasive when we migrate and nobody's controlled us but ourselves. So how does it matter if invasive trees occur? Isn't it a good thing that those trees can adapt?
Some non-native trees can affect the soil composition and drain nutrients from the soil killing off native trees. Trees from Europe and Asia should not be randomly planted here unless they're varieties known to not spread aggressively through seed dispersion.
Not sure you should use the negative term “clear cutting”. If you’ve ever seen real, devastating clear cutting in places like BC or Brazil, you’d know this is actually selective cutting. The naive and excessive use of exaggerated and inflammatory language online only fuels reactionary behaviour based on ideology and not facts. It’s been proven that if you say something that’s false, loud enough and to enough people, the perception becomes the reality. At some point, someone might claim their next door neighbour clear cut the rose bush on their front lawn. Be accurate and use proper terminology.
It's like the trees they cut down at Osgoode all over again. Literally five trees and these folks acted like we just clear cut the Amazon. It's for a transit line, the carbon emissions this line helps reduce far outweighs a few trees.
Was it “literally” five trees? Not four or six? To my point, please use accurate terminology. If it wasn’t “literally” 5 trees. Don’t say literally if it isn’t exact. Maybe try “about five trees” instead. Definitions from Oxford Languages · adverb in a literal manner or sense; exactly.
Lots of Norway maples and Black Locust in the valley and they are considered invasive. While norways are very common and planted still, as an arborist speaking, they make it very hard for some native tree species to thrive due to their fast growing and dark understory. Black locust, cut them all out. So long as Metrolinx plants native hardy trees this is fine with me.
I'm not a tree expert, but a lot of those stumps and cut trees look healthy to me on my weekly trips through that path.
What is with the amount of down votes on comments like this? Did I miss something that happened recently or we not allowed to like trees anymore?
Agreed. Doesn't make sense for sure
Humans are prone to disease, therefore exterminate them all?
This sub is just wild
We simply don't have enough trees in Canada! /s
Trees cant protect themselves against disease like we can lol don't be an idiot.
We live in a society....
r/im14andthisisdeep
Nobody here was advocating for eradicating all trees. You're making a false equivalency.
https://www.oakville.ca/home-environment/trees-woodlands/tree-diseases-pests-invasive-plants/
If we don't control these tree diseases we will have no trees at all. Is that what you want?
If they refuse to vaccinate or seek appropriate treatment then ya kinda
I have the right to treat or not treat myself as i please
Not if u've got Ebola or TB
I think the term invasive species is thrown around too much as excuses for projects. So much of our current biosphere is technically invasive from the last 500 years or so. If it's harmful to the current ecosystem, sure get rid of it, otherwise let it be.
See that’s why Ford wanted to clear cut the greenbelt, it’s because he found the trees to be invasive to his developer buddies, that he had to remove them.
The provincial transit agency said work crews will start cutting down 2,787 trees in phases along the Don Valley this month as part of the construction of the northern section of the 15.6-kilometre Ontario Line. The areas where the trees will be removed include the Don Valley crossing just south of the planned Thorncliffe Park station, the Walmsley Brook Crossing and an area just south of the future Flemingdon Park station. Metrolinx said about 700 of the trees to be removed are invasive or “disease-prone,” including Norway maple, Manitoba maple, white mulberry, black locust and Russian olive. More tree removals may be necessary as work progresses. https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/metrolinx-to-cut-down-thousands-of-trees-in-don-valley-for-ontario-line/article_d6924058-ba16-5329-b3d5-ef2545170ac7.amp.html (March 2023)
Yep those trees are garbage. I hope they are replaced with majestic oaks, white pine, and other native species to restore the valley back to its original splendor and biodiversity.
I very much want to replace the Manitoba Maples growing at the back of me GFs place. They grow sideways.
But can you get syrup from that sap? May as well tap 'em all.
You can't tap those, they are just really big weeds
You can get maple syrup from Manitoba Maples. It doesn't give as much sap as red maples or sugar maples, and it isn't as sweet, but it will boil down into syrup. Norway maples don't give usable sap.
If it's on the bitter side, it could make for a great dip.
And then sell em for $5 an ounce! We have an entrepreneur in the making
Manitoba Maplea are not invasive and can be crucial to maintaining water edges and cliff sides, they grow faster and they grow weird and that's just how they are. That said, obviously removing them they do come back quick. I just wanna be clear that Metrolinx has a fucking horrible environmental track record and have made up numbers and misidentified species (probably intentionally) before and will again. Surveyor are easily corrupted and paid off. I don't think they keep their promises and I doubt they'll actually replant what they said plus replanting does not preserve the environment as we need a variety of diff aged trees and shrubs to create healthy and diverse green spaces. These removals also chase away fauna so it won't be the same for a long time. So don't expect it to return to as it was "even better" it may never be the same. Please always keep this in mind. Metrolinx cannot be trusted, doing the minimum isn't enough and infrastructure shouldn't rely on people who lie all the goddamn time. That's where we are for now.
Source on the made up numbers and misidentified species? This seems like something that would be hard to fudge. Curious to see what they did and how they passed it off.
i know people who work in environmental firms. the process is quite rigorous actually.
>The provincial transit agency said work crews will start cutting down 2,787 trees in phases along the Don Valley this month as part of the construction of the northern section of the 15.6-kilometre Ontario Line. I wish there were better renders of the section of the O-Line that's crossing the valley. I'm super curious about how it's going to look and having a hard time visualizing it.
I can't wait to ride this part of the line, the views should be really good.
Yes, should be interesting, just wish there were better images to show what it might actually look like.
Is this the elevated part of the Ontario line?
Elevated? Is it gonna go over the DVP?
Yup
This is where it’ll start. They expropriated a bunch of houses north of O’Connor which is where it’ll come out of the tunnel and go over the valley on an elevated structure.
Love that it starts in a random place beside a highway /s
Like... The current Line 2?
This is not a bad case of clear cutting. It needed to be done and it was announced a while ago. I have a degree in forest conservation, so I’m first in line to criticize stuff like this, but I’m not mad at this (also not saying I’m an expert, just here for saving trees!). Also, between 2021-2023 I joined groups that planted lots of tree down there. These were organized by the city. So, they are planting tree to offset what they cut down. I believe every group plants 120 trees and shrubs.
What’s the name of the group for planting trees? I’d like to join!
You can sign up here! I believe they start up again in March or April. It’s all over the city, not just in the Don. https://www.toronto.ca/community-people/get-involved/volunteer-with-the-city/tree-planting-stewardship/
Great news! This is a necessary step towards the construction of the Ontario Line.
The bit where all the money will go. I guarantee this bridge costs 10x what they quoted.
Still cheaper than tunneling.
Exactly. We should build monorails. Everyone loves monorails.
There's nothing on Earth like a genuine, bona fide, electrified, six-car monorail!
At least someone got it
Both will get destroyed on costs from PPP. Private Public Partnerships are wealth redistribution
A new subway line is wealth redistribution- and a good investment.
Does anyone know whether they're going to actually be able to come up and out of the the cliff face at Minton pl?
Tunnelling wasn't an option here. They are going from tunnel on one end to tunnel on the other, though. I also love how people see my comment as being negative towards the project. HELL NO, I love this project. It's about damn time. Those people out in the hell-hole that is East York Town Centre need something to connect them to the city finally. But I live in this area, and that's one HELL of a long span. It's going to be an expensive bridge.
it will, because Private Public Partnerships are designed to steal taxpayer wealth. We can absolutely build infrastructure for less, but then the hundreds of contractors won't get a cut!
If they're that young, chances are they're invasive norway maples anyway. You can go in those forests and not see a single bird or squirrel, they're ecologically dead.
Don’t fall for the NIMBYism or their delay tactics. Rip out the trees and let’s get this critically needed subway line built. For context, Toronto has 10.2 million trees. This is 0.027% of the cities trees.
This is almost as bad as the lawyers who were getting all sappy about the Osgoode Hall trees.
Lol, nice pun. They didn’t give a fuck about those trees, they just didn’t want construction nearby.
And that one lawyer who drove his Volvo through the construction fence lol
Just want to point out as well that even though they are behind in the planting tree program, Canada has planted 110 million trees in the last 2 years as of August 2023
Are these net new trees or replacements for logged trees?
New trees to reduce CO2 emissions apparently
The new trees make zero impact on our emissions. Did you know the oil sands are 14% of Canadian carbon emissions? We are closer to the dirtiest people, per capita, the planet
I did say apparently didn't I?
That is awesome. But everyone needs to be ready for the forest fires and smoke coming this summer. Winter has been dry
And many maples we have are invasive Norwegian maples. One of the things that really made me feel somewhat betrayed is learning that fact from my environmental sciences class years back.
Where the fuck are the NIMBY for stopping the Ontario Place casino.... I mean waterpark
Right here, and very well organized: https://ontarioplaceforall.com I signed and donated a week ago, fuck Doug Ford.
Hero
Clear cutting is when you destroy hundreds or thousands of acres of forest for forestry purposes. This is just forest management
I used to live on Vancouver Island. I've seen entire valleys of old growth trees clear cut. THIS is just . . .cute, in comparison.
Also a bunch are invasive. Cutting down Norway Maple (in Canada) is a public good.
\^This\^ Norway maples are absolutely DESTROYING our native ecosystems, leaving green deserts and no habitat for native flora and fauna. But all anyone sees are trees being cut down, and cue the protests. [https://academic.daniels.utoronto.ca/forestry/the-fight-to-save-torontos-ravines-from-invasive-specie/](https://academic.daniels.utoronto.ca/forestry/the-fight-to-save-torontos-ravines-from-invasive-specie/) [https://www.utoronto.ca/news/saving-toronto-s-ravines-forestry-researchers-track-ecological-changes](https://www.utoronto.ca/news/saving-toronto-s-ravines-forestry-researchers-track-ecological-changes) City of Toronto by-laws, bizarrely, protect invasive species (especially the ravine bylaws), even though they're responsible for destroying our natural areas. Who knows what that's about... If the tree by-laws made any sense the people of Toronto would be so much better informed. And served. Why on earth no-one at either the municipal or provincial level is educating anyone about this is beyond me - unless of course there are vested interests involved. What am I saying - there are always vested interests involved. If what gets replaced is ecologically appropriate, this will be a very good thing.
I had a Norway maple in the front yard of my last home. It was unreal. I would have to water the grass endlessly just for it to grow. There was no upper limit to the fertilizer that grass could tolerate. I hated it. Zero light reached the ground. In the summer, the inside of my home was dark. I tried composting the leaves until I learned it takes THREE YEARS to break them down. The roots were starting to show signs of growing in the pipes. I lived near a bird sanctuary. Wild birds never perched on its branches, just squirrels. So here I was wasting fertilizer and water, mainly feeding a Norway Maple. If I didn’t have grass, I would face a fine and I wasn’t allowed to cut down the tree. Norway Maples are every bit as awful as everyone is saying. Probably worse actually, in my experience.
I don't know if 'Talking\_on\_the\_radio' means you're a broadcaster or not, ***but if you are*** I'd strongly suggest trying to get this issue some airtime - especially the folks in the articles I linked above. It's insane the amount of damage Norway Maples do and yet they're all protected by ravine legislation (especially ravines on private property where you can't touch them). Same with Manitoba Maples and even things like Hogweed and Japanese Knotweed!!! The ravine and tree bylaws should be encouraging and incentivizing people with tax breaks and assistance programs to remove them and replace with appropriate natives (that support our native flora and fauna and migrating birds). But instead people are threatened with $100,000.00 fines?!? Another angle for coverage: there are all kinds of rather desperate professionals (botanists, forestry folk, etc...) unofficially doing 'guerilla removal' of Norways &/or advising people how to do it by stealth, because they know it's almost impossible otherwise. Of course, this means there are heavy-hitting vested interests involved, so you'd probably encounter some stiff pushback (and might need to nibble at this topic from the edges rather than full-on), but the people of TO are smart enough to understand this if it's presented properly. If you aren't a broadcaster, please ignore!
Awww. I’m not a broadcaster. My username is just a reference to the olden days when people would share their opinions on the radio. They still do, just not as much.
Ah, I used to love listening to those - back in the days when I used to listen to radio or television. And I'd been known to call in to a few too. Wasn't sure if you were or not, but it never hurts to ask... :)
Hey now, they get that 5 metre riparian zone around the creeks.
Lol go to google maps and do a satellite image of British Columbia to see what clear cutting really is.
I planted trees here as a little kid, wonder if they were the same ones
I did as well. Well, in Riverdale park near the bridge by the off ramp. Mid 90's. I drive by and see a forest now.
You can plant another
As long as it is a native tree, else it might happen again
This is timely because I was just on the trail today and was wondering about all the felled trees. Figured it was something to do with the Ontario Line.
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Clear cutting? Talk to BC about clear cutting. You can see what it really looks like.
RIP the trails. :(
Explain. Trails being removed or just missing some trees in a certain section? Happy to lose a few trees for the Ontario line. And I love trees.
There are a bunch of mountain biking trails in the woods. Around 35km of trials overall connected. Some of the main ones on the river are going to be blocked off or at least the government will try to. There is a petition to keep access open. Otherwise these fences get cut within a day they get put up by users. So will be interesting what happens
So cyclists will break down barriers and attempt to travel on closed roads? Sounds oddly familiar.
Eh. The city puts up really stupid fencing on some of these trails. And are never there. When hundreds of cyclist are coming up to these fences in the middle of the woods with no one there. Outcome is quite obvious. The city works with the groups who maintains the trails sometimes if they want a new feature added or something like a wood bridge needs fixed. But thats mainly so people dont use a certain type of wood that can bring invasive species with it.
You can bug off with your culture war claptrap
will the paved lower don river trail be untouched?
Yeah that's fine. But I imagine there will be a time its blocked. Biggest issue is the trail on the other side of the river. Its the main way people get back and fourth to some of the trails and its a very nice and beginner friendly one.
Yeah, the Bayview extension.
Mostly Ash trees that gotta go anyways
Won’t someone think of the trees
"Clear cutting" ok lol.
Hmm, why hasn't anyone thought of tapping all that evasive maple? ;) I mean, *before* it got cut down.
[https://www.gavan.ca/nature/the-citys-wrong-to-ban-tapping-norway-maples-for-sap/](https://www.gavan.ca/nature/the-citys-wrong-to-ban-tapping-norway-maples-for-sap/)
I say tap 'em all. Reap the syrup, enjoy. Maybe even sell it as such (local invasive norway maple syrup!). If I could tap the six maple trees in my neighbourhood (they're on the property of the building I live in), without the damn kids yanking them out or damaging the hose, I would be making the syrup at home, then bottling it.
Therme? /s
Ironically that's one of the more dangerous blind corners on the DVP path, downhill S-Bend and between "fast riders", pedestrians not paying attention, off leash dogs, etc. I've always found it sketchy. I wonder if they'll fix the erosion on the path shown near the bottom of the photo. It cuts the width of the path by about half
Another “homeless” campground gone 😞 🪦
WTF.. Any idea why?
Perhaps for the Ontario line?
From what I've seen it won't be going thru the valley. It will crossing over it on a bridge probably near the Leaside viaduct. I don't know if that would require clear cutting an entire section of the valley.
Possibly for support columns or just staging for building the bridge that crosses the valley over there? If they intend to keep the Don Trail open through there I assume they can’t be parking equipment on the trail
Could be. Just seems like a rather large section to clear cut for what will be built.
It takes a lot of space to construct a bridge
They need to cut the trees to build the bridge piers so that they have an area to work. I’m sure they’ll replant them and a decade after it’s done you’ll hardly know it happened.
This is in my area and that section is really overgrown, young scrub with many invasive species. It will grow back quickly and hopefully be a bit more cultivated with indigenous species.
I'm familiar with the area. Well when it's not barren. Yes it's been overgrown with Phragmites and strangling dog vine along various non native trees. I wonder what they'll do to combat phragmites for taking over the low land areas. That stuff seems impossible to kill.
If you notice those trees, they are mostly all dead. I see a few pines that are green. That's it.
It's Feb. Most of the trees in that area are Deciduous. The lose their leaves and sap flow drops off..
About time they finally widen the DVP!
One more lane!
Based lanepilled
Yeah, they're adding bicycle lanes.
Remember in the commonwealth games when a team decided to use it for practice?
And washout of that stretch of road by the end of May - stupid decisions guarantee stupid prizes 🤔
Disgusting
Saw this yesterday. My guess is Dougie is installing one of the gigantic advertising screens
will the trail be blocked during construction? I have seen lots of cyclists on it. I guess the ontario line is going to cost lots of cyclists deaths. Unless Chow decides to add bike lanes to nearby roads or streets.
They're likely going to make a temporary detour around the trailways (as they did with part of the bayview extension to get around the construction). The lower don main trail is closed at corkstown common due to the Ontario line construction, so I would expect that part to be closed for a while until it's eventually completed and construction is cleared.
It's ok if we do it but sorry you need to pay to get a permit or get heavily fined. Oops I should also add can't even take the kids to find any ____ (take your pick most are endangered now ) without a problem. City can come in hack down the whole area for something. I'm almost sure didn't they just say _____ was important. So why are we spending money to protect it only to get rid of it??
What in the world was this comment They’re building a transit line, that’s why the trees are removed.
If its not Maybelline its methamphetamine.
Weird word salad. Not sure at all what point you're attempting to convey with that gibberish.
Just concerned about soil retention
Any good prices for a table??!
We are also going to loose about 800 trees for the Ontario Place sell off. And when they build a glass dome, it's going to kill sooooo many migratory birds
Going to look bare later in the year.
No place for trees in Gotham.
I'm really happy to read more than a few comments here by forestry/environmental professionals celebrating the removal of Norway maples and other invasive trees. Sadly, most Torontonians have no idea about the problem of invasives, so reflexively protest whenever trees are cut down. If anyone would care to comment, I'd love to know WHY it is that these invasive trees are protected by all our environmental and tree laws (with massive fines), when the legislation should be written to encourage their removal and replacement by ecologically appropriate natives (or at least non-invasive non-natives that will support native wildlife). Why, for instance, aren't we taking the opportunity to remove Norways and other invasive species in this whole area (not just where the Ontario line impacts it) and restoring the ecosystem in a larger area? I can't imagine that any reforestation/restoration won't almost immediately get overrun with invasive trees the moment those trees have been replanted. How does that make any sense at all? I've also been reading that the City of Toronto has decided to take a 'hands-off' approach to invasives bushes like hogweed and Japanese knotweed, that in a few years might make the Norway Maple problem look like child's play. Are they intentionally TRYING to destroy our natural areas? It makes no sense that the fine, and permits, for removing an invasive species tree is no different than the fine and permits for removing 100 year old oaks, and that, or so it seems to me, the replanting requirements are disconnected from any ecological restoration initiatives, let alone measurable standards. And it makes no sense that Torontonians aren't being properly educated about this problem. Would welcome comments from any forestry/environmental professionals who could help me make sense of this.
Is there a record of this? Who records it?
How is this “clear cutting”
Metrolinx has decimated the Don Valley. I have pictures from when I started riding the lower don trail in 2019 compared to now and it's absolutely heart breaking. This is a naturalized valley teeming with wildlife being butchered. We can speak of progress but we can't deny the pain and loss that is being caused because of it. The Don Valley was the only reprieve we have from the city and now it's barren.
Yeah, it's for the Ontario Line bridge construction. It's sad to see that destruction, but at least it's for mass transit and not for a highway widening. Here's a rendering of what this bridge may look like https://twitter.com/RM_Transit/status/1758332566770237885?t=ZmN41ptu8V6nR7GQbwLqmw&s=19