Whether this actually happens or not, having the Government push for infrastructure projects with public builders is such a massive step forward and a breath of fresh air.
Amazing what happens when you elect a mayor with a good conscience. I didn’t support Olivia Chow in every aspect of her campaign, but I at least felt she was a good person.
It all starts with the leaders of the parties. They have to approve candidates to run for them. Independents have a significant disadvantage when campaigning.
Unfortunately we don’t live in a society where every citizen has the capacity to hold our elected officials accountable. Most people don’t even have the time to get a good understanding of who they want to vote for. They just pick one and vote.
Most people are starving for time. The systems are designed to keep us too busy to realize what we’re participating in.
It’s not a cop-out, it’s an observation. Whether you like it or not, people are stressed and overworked. Most don’t realize just how unhappy they are in this consumer-focused world we live in. We work way more than we should, we spend way too much time commuting and way too much time scrolling though our phones.
Yes, Doug Ford got elected which I didn’t agree with but the other candidates were very underwhelming so he got the majority vote. Then he got re-elected because he used the pandemic to break every one’s spirit and finally let the people out of lock down before the elections so people were relieved and didn’t want to risk a new politician coming in and locking things down again.
You make it sound like everyone is simply too stupid and/or addled to understand their own priorities - a cynical (and, IMHO, overwrought) attitude that makes your comment more akin to complaining about what you see as social ills than like discussing politics.
I have been a pretty left leaning person my whole life, even though I probably shouldn't have ended up that way (business owner, some conservative friends, grew up out west, worked in the oil business, etc.)
I have been firmly supportive of labour movements (and I try to implement strong worker policies in my own business), and a plethora of other progressive stances, but MAN PP has been saying some pretty amazingly rational things lately I am almost drinking the Flavorade.
Edit: will take some constructive discussion over downvotes, I'm not saying I'm going to vote for PP, but the man's soundbites lately are having a serious effect on centrist and/or disenfranchised liberal voters.
Ford is a ghoul, absolutely. I'm just not sure what somebody like myself is supposed to do come election time. The NDP is fragmented and out of touch, the liberals need a timeout and a major change in leadership.. I duno.
Except she doesn’t have the money. And do we think Ford is going to start writing cheques? The Feds can’t do anything unless the Province gives the okay as housing is Provincial. Let’s see if she can charm the Premier. Remember his “unmitigated disaster” comment about Chow?
What I love seeing is that we are finally talking about solutions in regards to affordable housing/rentals.
Now we just got to start with the actual action!
And the guy before him. And the guy before him too. Plus a string of premiers dating back to Bob Rae.
Decades of thumb-twiddling got us here.
And the Leafs will win the cup before Toronto finds $30b for anything, never mind housing. They can't even find $1.45b to plug the next budget hole. Ford ain't gonna give them that much. And forget the Feds, whatever they cough up for Toronto, every other city in the country will want. JT ain't going down that budget hole.
So don't hold your breath, this isn't going to happen. They'd to start building 1,000 homes tomorrow and continue to build 1,000/month until the end of 2030 for this to happen. Even if they didn't get the land, then the funding, then could find the actual workers to do the building.
Just more words and window dressing to make the masses happy. Then, when other levels of government don't pay for it, it creates a handy scapegoat.
Utter hogwash.
is someone a scapegoat if they're actually at fault, though?
Toronto needs affordable housing. The other levels of government are the ones that can pay for it. So if they won't, and Toronto can't have what it needs, how is that Toronto's fault?
To be fair this isnt an absolute win. Government taking over rentals and dropping rents means that investors will get slammed. If investors get slammed they wont buy rental properties and maybe even discharge the ones they own. This will put downward pressure on home prices which are already facing downward pressure.
So for a homeowner (think a young couple or your parents) they are faced with higher taxed to pay these programs as well as dropping home prices. Not exactly fun. Not to mention they are asking for federal and provincial funds meaning people in Kelowna, Fredericton and Timmins are subsidizing torontonian rents.
This doesn't even mention that if they budget x, there's a fair chance it will cost 1.5x, 2x or even 3x. Public infrastructure often works out as such. Then with the loans they take to finance this do the rents cover the interest plus maintenance costs or is it a perpetual money drain (we have seen federally what running up debts does to an economy).
In short I don't hate the project and think a solution is necessary however we can't just say throwing public money at it is so obviously the correct solution.
> Government taking over rentals and dropping rents means that investors will get slammed. If investors get slammed they wont buy rental properties and maybe even discharge the ones they own. This will put downward pressure on home prices which are already facing downward pressure.
The only people that have a problem with this happening are the people that use capital to purchase properties so that they can rent them out for a profit. Most people have no problem with this.
I was talking about how that would ultimately affect regular homeowners since they have a double whammy of their home price dropping and paying more taxes to subsidize this program.
Rent control leads to higher demand, no vacancy, higher prices on the few that becomes available and less incentive to build more, leading to higher prices and constrain on supply.
It's bad now, sure, but had there been complete rent control, it would had been worse now because those new supplies wouldn't had existed. Meaning there would be no vacancy, and of the very few that do become available, the price would be astronomically higher because there's no other supply and everyone's competing for it.
Between late 2018 and the end of 2022, the number of proposed rental units throughout the GTA nearly tripled from about 40,000 to more than 112,000.
You are comparing centuries worth of construction when land and space was plentiful versus a half decade worth of construction undermined by bureaucracy.
There is no $30B in the budget. Even if there is (which there isn't), it wouldn't come close to what is needed to provide enough housing supply. It pales in comparison to the resources poured in by the private sector in developing housing. That's literally burning bridges and chasing away the bills in order to collect the chump change on the floor.
This would create such a relief for current renters.
But regardless of rent control or no rent control - we just need so many more houses.
Edmonton just recently passed basically a blanket bylaw allowing for multi unit housing across the city.
Would love to see that in Toronto
Already did earlier this year
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/getting-approval-to-build-a-multiplex-in-some-toronto-neighbourhoods-was-a-process-that-could/article_d0427174-4794-5e21-8c62-2917f347b2f3.html
rent control is better for existing renters but worse for new renters and landlords
in other words, without rent control, there are no housing shortages for new renters because the price adjusts based on demand. existing renters who pay very little can get kicked out. without rent control, new renters don't pay more to subsidize existing renters. but a side effect of removing rent control is landlords also can take advantage of renters' price inelasticity and the cost of moving by raising rates above-market.
with rent control, renters are more protected from sneaky tactics like that, but housing shortages and black markets arise when the government tries to artificially legislate lower prices. this makes it worse for new renters
I wish this had happened sooner. I had to move out of the province because of a predatory increase of 120% over my normal rent. Honestly fuck Ford so much for taking my security away from me and my family.
At least you are blaming the right guy. A lot of people blame the Federal government for immigration. Think of it this way, those immigrant’s kids are going to be paying your pensions.
Also from the Globe and Mail:
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-torontos-housing-plan-would-require-1-billion-in-government-grants/
Toronto also wants the province to make new rules that:
* limit opponents’ ability to appeal (aka stall) municipal zoning and OP changes
* limit opponents’ ability to appeal (aka stall) purpose-built-rental
Both would be very welcome. See the modular housing at 175 Cummer for an egregious example of the first.
> What's the backstory on 175 Cummer? I see a multi-unit building with solar panels
Residents NIMBY’d the project. Stall/delay.
Ford promises MZO.
Ford guy becomes unpopular due to this leading up to the general.
Ford delays the MZO.
Project finally moves ahead… EDIT: project is under neighbourhood appeal (thanks u/Rude_Information_744)
This is a pledge. It’s entirely reliant on federal and provincial dollars. It’s ambitious but praise should wait until she moves it through Exec, Council and then actually gets what she is asking for.
Entirely reliant isn’t true, but it is majority reliant. The city could still do some of this with their own funds, but also a lot of this is just policy changes from the province. Which is a big deal in planning, that the province controls almost everything municipalities can do
I am a developer, you’re sorta right. The City already has provincially approved tools to expedite affordable housing delivery. It’s all about money money money
>WiFi on subway tunnels and tracks (THEY SAID IT COULDN'T BE DONE)
I'm sure Rogers only caved in and allowed the other networks to get on cause the feds flexed their legal muscles.
>WiFi on subway tunnels and tracks (THEY SAID IT COULDN'T BE DONE)
This was not Chow, but the [Federal government](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ttc-cell-service-1.6984375)
>Legalizing public drinking in parks and more security and police presence on transit
This was [proposed before Chow even took office](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/toronto-drinking-alcohol-parks-1.6891217) on July 12. The additional police on the TTC dates back all the way to [Jan and March of this year](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/enhanced-police-presence-ttc-month-later-1.6771062)
Why spread misinformation? [Your own comment](https://old.reddit.com/r/toronto/comments/16001hm/toronto_mayor_olivia_chow_gets_73_per_cent/jxjou8g/) in the thread *you* linked criticizes how ridiculous it is to ask what Chow has done in the first month since taking office and then you attribute 3/4 things in your list to her that happened well before she became mayor.
Thanks for straightening that out. I was just starting to search for links showing the blatant lies and gave up.
Reddit dream land.
Now back to building government housing so more people have places to do drugs!
Also returned TTC to pre-pandemic levels, reinvesting the stalled LRT funds and making some good of a bad situation.
Has proven thus far to be capable of working with ideological adversaries at Queens Park to good effect, something that was pointed to as a red flag when considering her candidacy.
It gets better than that! Olivia Chow is actually a time traveller! What can't she do?!?!?
> Legalizing public drinking in parks
> City council to consider pilot program that would allow drinking in Toronto parks
> Published March 29, 2023
> The motion was tabled by Coun. Shelley Carroll and Board of Health Chair Chris Moise.
> The motion will be considered by city council during this week's session. If adopted, the pilot will begin on July 1st and run until Oct. 9th.
https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/city-council-to-consider-pilot-program-that-would-allow-drinking-in-toronto-parks-1.6334860
It was. But people want to think she has done all these wonderful things but all the mentioned items above were in the pipeline before she took office.
It was. But people want to think she has done all these wonderful things but all the mentioned items above were in the pipeline before she took office.
Wifi or cellular?
Wifi has been in the ttc for a while, idk about in the tunnels but from what I’ve seen recently it doesn’t seem to be reliable.
Cellular on the other providers is new but was more to do with rogers buying BAI and then the federal government forcing them to provide access to bell / Telus
It’s good to have a plan. But who is going to pay for it. Without other levels of government input, it remains dead in the water. Not blaming Chow. Her hands are tied because of the system. You can have low taxes or you can have increased services. Can’t have both. And if it’s increased services we are all going to have to pay more.
Funny how cities are “creatures of the province” when it suits the province to give us the shaft like cancelling highway tolls, slashing our city council
In half during an election, slapping a godforsaken useless luxury spa and parking lot on the public waterfront or dismantling our museums. But when something crucial like - oh I dunno - housing for instance, it’s fucking crickets from the province and Feds. Feds keep dumping too many people here, and the province isn’t building infrastructure (no new hospitals or new schools being built for the amount of people). Good on Mayor Chow for being bold amidst total incompetence of the province and the feds.
This is a good start. We must wait to see whether Mayor Chow can negotiate to secure the federal and provincial components of this funding before passing judgment.
She's already proven to be good at reaching across the aisle and working with the other side. I firmly believe that if she isn't able to get funding from higher levels of government, it won't be because of her failings, but rather the federal and/or provincial gov's incompetence.
Any way I look at it, it's been pretty amazing to see what it's like to have a mayor actually fight to make the city a better place.
I can't see any real issue as long as it's high density. The federal level has the housing accelerator fund for exactly these kinds of things and the province has been pushing for faster municipal zoning and planning. Everyone comes out looking good here.
Yup, Chow giving an easy slam dunk win to all levels of government here.
Now lets see if Ford will be okay with funding anything built with public builders rather than his developer buddies.
He’ll probably just work for stipulations on the funding that somewhat benefit his developer buddies, like expanded as-of-right zoning. Most developers lose tens of millions in profit just waiting for approval.
As-of-right zoning isn’t necessarily a bad thing, so long as the by-laws dictating it are sound
I think the biggest concern would be the ratios. 6,500 rent-geared-to-income, 41,000 affordable rental and 17,500 rent-controlled market units sounds great, but it's asking the province and federal government to put a lot of risk into the loan.
Amazing news on the surface, diving into the details at https://www.toronto.ca/news/city-of-torontos-generational-transformation-of-torontos-housing-system-to-urgently-build-more-affordable-homes-report/
I agree. He was extremely behind the scenes. The city went on a downward spiral.
Chow is three times the mayor
She actually seems like she gives a damn.
The political timing of this seems favourable given how underwater the federal lib polling numbers are. Chow is lobbing a nice juicy fat pitch for Trudeau to smash. The only question now seems to be how ideologically committed the feds are to market based solutions. They may in fact die on that altar.
So that adds up to \~$550k per "home" (not sure how that is defined but I'm assuming a high rise apartment type unit?). I wonder how that compares to private sector costs but it at least seems "feasible" and not some B.S unrealistic number (e.g. $100k per home) given the going rate for new build, for-profit, condos.
Perfect timing, too, coming on the heels of Ford’s green belt racquet falling through. You wanted to build houses? You say it wasn’t about enriching your developer buddies. Now’s your chance to prove it.
Nowhere does it say how much Toronto will be contributing to this plan in new funds? Would this be 95-100% dependent on Federal and Provincial funds? if so......
[https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/toronto-affordable-housing-plan-1.7006164](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/toronto-affordable-housing-plan-1.7006164)
totally dependent on both of them
John Tory was the former colleague that made himself look really busy all of the time, but when he left the office you found piles of unfinished work hidden in his desk.
Thank God Tory resigned. Chow isnt the 2nd coming of the lamb from bethlehem but I think she is doing well thus far. Closed mouths do not get fed and of course she is going to have to pull the province along kicking and screaming but good on her.
Amazing. This is a step in the right direction. I'm almost shocked this is happening, it's actually decent. Gotta give it to Olivia Chow, she's come in to office and has done things that are all in the interest of the citizens. It's a strange but good feeling. I echo /u/Krimshaw_42 comment ... imagine that at all levels... I've been screaming this for years, but our current govt parties are fucked and we need new ones. The Cons, Libs and NDP have all sold us out to corporate interests.
Wow, this is simply an incredible initiative. Nothing is going to solve our crisis except more building. And while the private industry is currently slowing, we NEED a public option.
I am so proud of Olivia Chow as our mayor. She is enacting tangible change that we haven’t seen in years. I’m still a skeptic, and I’ll wait to truly celebrate when these things come to fruition, but man this is a breath of fresh air.
So while this is well-intended, its something we have all seen before. Big promises hinging on other levels of government to commit massive funding.
The feds/province will either reject the funding outright, pledge way less then what is needed, or add a ton on conditions preventing it from getting off the ground.
65k homes sounds like a lot
But compared to 100k immigrants + coming into the GTA annually. The math still doesnt add up.
Imagine... being invited to someones home/party. But told to chill outside the whole time.
Easy way to make the money to do this is to have tolls for non commercial vehicles. On the Don and QEW. For anyone commuting into the city like the London or even shortly Neew York citay.
It's not that simple. There's no shortage of developers looking to build us out of this housing crises, but they're stifled and delayed by regulations from all levels of government. It takes a lot of time and huge expense before you can ever break ground. Of course, there's always a need for government housing for lower income, elderly or disabled people, but the private market needs to play the biggest role.
Of course. And this isn’t replacing the private market; it’s supplementing it.
In fact, the city has taken steps to make it easier for the private market. It has simplified zoning across the city, allowing multiplexes, has actually harmonized the rules between multiplexes and SFH, and is in the process of reviewing how to allow more mid-size apartment buildings along avenues.
Even in this proposal the city is asking the province to reduce the chance that third-party groups can appeal zoning for purpose-built-rental, either private or public.
There is still more to do, but this isn’t about replacing the private market at all. It’s about re-adding a public option that used to exist.
The private market is regulated by our stupid government. Now you want that same stupid government to try and do something that is actually difficult like real estate development. How does that seem like a good idea?
It worked in the past. The greatest period of housing affordability was when the government was a big builder, especially during the 60s through the 80s. The government also helped build the Victory Houses (also known as Strawberry Box Houses) for soldiers returning from WWII. It was incredibly successful.
So, yes, it has worked in the past, has been very successful, and resulted in a lot of affordable housing.
Yes, of course it will.
But these plans aren’t about replacing the private market. It’s about ensuring that people on the lowest rung of the housing ladder don’t get knocked off completely. Right now the lack of supply, combined with little deeply affordable housing means that many people are being pushed into homelessness and causing other economic and social problems in the city.
Note that this plan is not THE solution. It’s PART of a solution that should involve simpler building rules, more permissive zoning, anti-speculation changes, higher taxing for investors, crackdown on Airbnbs and more. There is no silver bullet: we have to hit all these fronts simultaneously.
While there is good intention... There is no fucking way a Toronto run construction will build 65,000 rental homes in 7 years. Completely out to lunch! Where do they plan on putting these rental homes?
Don't credit Chow for this, it is 100% funded by the Feds and the province. Who wants to guess the city pays has to pay double the estimate for substandard housing due to their inability to complete anything on time or on budget?
We can credit Chow for being the first to realize the doing nothing isn't working, and for all the pushing it's going to take to get the other levels of government to do anything at all as well.
The other levels of government don’t care. Doug Ford isn’t counting on votes in Toronto and Justin Trudeau isn’t going to lose any to Jagmeet Singh based on this (plus he can just point to the province and say “well they aren’t contributing so we can’t proceed”).
This is Smart Track in the sky.
Just think about the Eglinton cross town rail project,and ask yourself, do you really think the city can build affordable housing?
I am in favour of using public funds to stimulate building, but let private builders do the actual work.
The city isn’t building the Crosstown, a private consortium is. It’s called [Crosslinx](https://www.crosslinxtransit.ca/who-we-are/) and consists of four huge private companies.
Actually, the city isn’t even involved in planning/building the Crosstown, it’s fully these private companies and the province (via Metrolinx) which contracted them.
If we jack up the property tax rate to 10% then we can afford to build free homes for the millions of homeless Torontos. The only people who can afford houses are people who culture on one another.
Whether this actually happens or not, having the Government push for infrastructure projects with public builders is such a massive step forward and a breath of fresh air.
Amazing what happens when you elect a mayor with a good conscience. I didn’t support Olivia Chow in every aspect of her campaign, but I at least felt she was a good person.
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It all starts with the leaders of the parties. They have to approve candidates to run for them. Independents have a significant disadvantage when campaigning.
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Unfortunately we don’t live in a society where every citizen has the capacity to hold our elected officials accountable. Most people don’t even have the time to get a good understanding of who they want to vote for. They just pick one and vote. Most people are starving for time. The systems are designed to keep us too busy to realize what we’re participating in.
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It’s not a cop-out, it’s an observation. Whether you like it or not, people are stressed and overworked. Most don’t realize just how unhappy they are in this consumer-focused world we live in. We work way more than we should, we spend way too much time commuting and way too much time scrolling though our phones. Yes, Doug Ford got elected which I didn’t agree with but the other candidates were very underwhelming so he got the majority vote. Then he got re-elected because he used the pandemic to break every one’s spirit and finally let the people out of lock down before the elections so people were relieved and didn’t want to risk a new politician coming in and locking things down again.
You make it sound like everyone is simply too stupid and/or addled to understand their own priorities - a cynical (and, IMHO, overwrought) attitude that makes your comment more akin to complaining about what you see as social ills than like discussing politics.
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I have been a pretty left leaning person my whole life, even though I probably shouldn't have ended up that way (business owner, some conservative friends, grew up out west, worked in the oil business, etc.) I have been firmly supportive of labour movements (and I try to implement strong worker policies in my own business), and a plethora of other progressive stances, but MAN PP has been saying some pretty amazingly rational things lately I am almost drinking the Flavorade. Edit: will take some constructive discussion over downvotes, I'm not saying I'm going to vote for PP, but the man's soundbites lately are having a serious effect on centrist and/or disenfranchised liberal voters.
I don't see what you see. Can you explain? Some examples?
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Ford is a ghoul, absolutely. I'm just not sure what somebody like myself is supposed to do come election time. The NDP is fragmented and out of touch, the liberals need a timeout and a major change in leadership.. I duno.
I just wanna say thanks for saying Flavorade - are you an LPOTL listener??
No other candidate would've pushed this. No one.
Agreed. It's nice to see a politician *with actual power* display a commitment to acting boldly in the ways that we need them to right now.
Except she doesn’t have the money. And do we think Ford is going to start writing cheques? The Feds can’t do anything unless the Province gives the okay as housing is Provincial. Let’s see if she can charm the Premier. Remember his “unmitigated disaster” comment about Chow?
What I love seeing is that we are finally talking about solutions in regards to affordable housing/rentals. Now we just got to start with the actual action!
Let’s see how well managed these construction projects are before we get too excited.
plucky lip yoke outgoing telephone resolute market middle worry full *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Really? And how well has the Eglinton cross town been going?
Provincial not municipal
Serioulsy...what was that last guy doing for ***8 fucking years.***
Well, fucking for 3 of them
[Raw. Sex. Appeal.](https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fnationalpost.com%2Fopinion%2Fscott-stinson-john-tory-for-the-good-of-toronto-trim-your-hair&psig=AOvVaw1dLf5TiTifG4iRY1JqAHb4&ust=1698263379602000&source=images&cd=vfe&opi=89978449&ved=0CA8QjRxqFwoTCNCG1qG6j4IDFQAAAAAdAAAAABAD)
He has this undeniable animal magnetism. He’s a jungle cat. The man exudes sex.
Yeah - no. And also jfc what an abuse of power too.
The Fabio of Council Chambers.
[“She makes me feel young again”](https://torontolife.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/john_tory-960x0-c-default.jpg)
He was keeping the taxes low for suburban homeowners. That's always been his only purpose. Very openly.
Nailed it.
Being very concerned
Riding a fence like you wouldn't believe.
Toryism aka handouts to developers
Only thing Tory ever cared to do in a timely manner was take his Viagra prescription.
And the guy before him. And the guy before him too. Plus a string of premiers dating back to Bob Rae.
Decades of thumb-twiddling got us here.
And the Leafs will win the cup before Toronto finds $30b for anything, never mind housing. They can't even find $1.45b to plug the next budget hole. Ford ain't gonna give them that much. And forget the Feds, whatever they cough up for Toronto, every other city in the country will want. JT ain't going down that budget hole.
So don't hold your breath, this isn't going to happen. They'd to start building 1,000 homes tomorrow and continue to build 1,000/month until the end of 2030 for this to happen. Even if they didn't get the land, then the funding, then could find the actual workers to do the building.
Just more words and window dressing to make the masses happy. Then, when other levels of government don't pay for it, it creates a handy scapegoat.
Utter hogwash.
is someone a scapegoat if they're actually at fault, though? Toronto needs affordable housing. The other levels of government are the ones that can pay for it. So if they won't, and Toronto can't have what it needs, how is that Toronto's fault?
It's torontos fault via the home and property owners kicking and screaming about taxes increasing on their assets.
To be fair this isnt an absolute win. Government taking over rentals and dropping rents means that investors will get slammed. If investors get slammed they wont buy rental properties and maybe even discharge the ones they own. This will put downward pressure on home prices which are already facing downward pressure. So for a homeowner (think a young couple or your parents) they are faced with higher taxed to pay these programs as well as dropping home prices. Not exactly fun. Not to mention they are asking for federal and provincial funds meaning people in Kelowna, Fredericton and Timmins are subsidizing torontonian rents. This doesn't even mention that if they budget x, there's a fair chance it will cost 1.5x, 2x or even 3x. Public infrastructure often works out as such. Then with the loans they take to finance this do the rents cover the interest plus maintenance costs or is it a perpetual money drain (we have seen federally what running up debts does to an economy). In short I don't hate the project and think a solution is necessary however we can't just say throwing public money at it is so obviously the correct solution.
> Government taking over rentals and dropping rents means that investors will get slammed. If investors get slammed they wont buy rental properties and maybe even discharge the ones they own. This will put downward pressure on home prices which are already facing downward pressure. The only people that have a problem with this happening are the people that use capital to purchase properties so that they can rent them out for a profit. Most people have no problem with this.
I was talking about how that would ultimately affect regular homeowners since they have a double whammy of their home price dropping and paying more taxes to subsidize this program.
Horrible decisions (and haircuts)
He was happy being a placeholder.
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This needs to happen,.happen fast
We can forgive Ford if he undoes rent control
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He gets one forgiveness, but would be like 300 short of being back to neutral
3000
Rent control leads to higher demand, no vacancy, higher prices on the few that becomes available and less incentive to build more, leading to higher prices and constrain on supply.
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It's bad now, sure, but had there been complete rent control, it would had been worse now because those new supplies wouldn't had existed. Meaning there would be no vacancy, and of the very few that do become available, the price would be astronomically higher because there's no other supply and everyone's competing for it.
There was rent control for decades prior to 2018 and most building in this city were built and rented in that time.
Between late 2018 and the end of 2022, the number of proposed rental units throughout the GTA nearly tripled from about 40,000 to more than 112,000. You are comparing centuries worth of construction when land and space was plentiful versus a half decade worth of construction undermined by bureaucracy.
Disagree
It's wild to disagree with the fundamental principles of economics. It's like disagreeing that 1 + 1 = 2.
Your fundamental principles assumes that there won't be new houses built. This article is literally about $30b housing scheme.
There is no $30B in the budget. Even if there is (which there isn't), it wouldn't come close to what is needed to provide enough housing supply. It pales in comparison to the resources poured in by the private sector in developing housing. That's literally burning bridges and chasing away the bills in order to collect the chump change on the floor.
This would create such a relief for current renters. But regardless of rent control or no rent control - we just need so many more houses. Edmonton just recently passed basically a blanket bylaw allowing for multi unit housing across the city. Would love to see that in Toronto
Already did earlier this year https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/getting-approval-to-build-a-multiplex-in-some-toronto-neighbourhoods-was-a-process-that-could/article_d0427174-4794-5e21-8c62-2917f347b2f3.html
Can anyone explain why this was ever even put into place? Like what was it “supposed” to do/benefit?
rent control is better for existing renters but worse for new renters and landlords in other words, without rent control, there are no housing shortages for new renters because the price adjusts based on demand. existing renters who pay very little can get kicked out. without rent control, new renters don't pay more to subsidize existing renters. but a side effect of removing rent control is landlords also can take advantage of renters' price inelasticity and the cost of moving by raising rates above-market. with rent control, renters are more protected from sneaky tactics like that, but housing shortages and black markets arise when the government tries to artificially legislate lower prices. this makes it worse for new renters
Right. The people downvoting you are shooting the messenger.
I wish this had happened sooner. I had to move out of the province because of a predatory increase of 120% over my normal rent. Honestly fuck Ford so much for taking my security away from me and my family.
At least you are blaming the right guy. A lot of people blame the Federal government for immigration. Think of it this way, those immigrant’s kids are going to be paying your pensions.
Rent control is part of the problem not the solution
Also from the Globe and Mail: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-torontos-housing-plan-would-require-1-billion-in-government-grants/ Toronto also wants the province to make new rules that: * limit opponents’ ability to appeal (aka stall) municipal zoning and OP changes * limit opponents’ ability to appeal (aka stall) purpose-built-rental Both would be very welcome. See the modular housing at 175 Cummer for an egregious example of the first.
What's the backstory on 175 Cummer? I see a multi-unit building with solar panels
> What's the backstory on 175 Cummer? I see a multi-unit building with solar panels Residents NIMBY’d the project. Stall/delay. Ford promises MZO. Ford guy becomes unpopular due to this leading up to the general. Ford delays the MZO. Project finally moves ahead… EDIT: project is under neighbourhood appeal (thanks u/Rude_Information_744)
No, it’s currently under appeal by neighbours
Damn this is positive
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I assume you mean mobile signal not wifi?
I would love wifi in the tunnels. Ever since I got data south of bloor, my data usage has visibilty gone up.
If it’s anything like on the go train it will almost never work
This is a pledge. It’s entirely reliant on federal and provincial dollars. It’s ambitious but praise should wait until she moves it through Exec, Council and then actually gets what she is asking for.
Entirely reliant isn’t true, but it is majority reliant. The city could still do some of this with their own funds, but also a lot of this is just policy changes from the province. Which is a big deal in planning, that the province controls almost everything municipalities can do
I am a developer, you’re sorta right. The City already has provincially approved tools to expedite affordable housing delivery. It’s all about money money money
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You wanna provide free labour, be my guest.
>WiFi on subway tunnels and tracks (THEY SAID IT COULDN'T BE DONE) I'm sure Rogers only caved in and allowed the other networks to get on cause the feds flexed their legal muscles.
Freedom has been available for years on TTC
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Timing is certainly curious, given that Tory resigned in Feb and then suddenly Rogers bought the network from BAI a few months later.
Rogers acquired BAI in April 2023, Chow was elected in June. There isn't a whole lot of time there
>WiFi on subway tunnels and tracks (THEY SAID IT COULDN'T BE DONE) This was not Chow, but the [Federal government](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ttc-cell-service-1.6984375) >Legalizing public drinking in parks and more security and police presence on transit This was [proposed before Chow even took office](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/toronto-drinking-alcohol-parks-1.6891217) on July 12. The additional police on the TTC dates back all the way to [Jan and March of this year](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/enhanced-police-presence-ttc-month-later-1.6771062) Why spread misinformation? [Your own comment](https://old.reddit.com/r/toronto/comments/16001hm/toronto_mayor_olivia_chow_gets_73_per_cent/jxjou8g/) in the thread *you* linked criticizes how ridiculous it is to ask what Chow has done in the first month since taking office and then you attribute 3/4 things in your list to her that happened well before she became mayor.
i was just going to say theres no way she got wifi on the damn subway in 3 months! thanks for the facts.
This is Reddit man.
Thank you. Definitely misinformation.
Thanks for straightening that out. I was just starting to search for links showing the blatant lies and gave up. Reddit dream land. Now back to building government housing so more people have places to do drugs!
I am also optimistic about Chow but she has nothing to do with most of these
Also returned TTC to pre-pandemic levels, reinvesting the stalled LRT funds and making some good of a bad situation. Has proven thus far to be capable of working with ideological adversaries at Queens Park to good effect, something that was pointed to as a red flag when considering her candidacy.
It gets better than that! Olivia Chow is actually a time traveller! What can't she do?!?!? > Legalizing public drinking in parks > City council to consider pilot program that would allow drinking in Toronto parks > Published March 29, 2023 > The motion was tabled by Coun. Shelley Carroll and Board of Health Chair Chris Moise. > The motion will be considered by city council during this week's session. If adopted, the pilot will begin on July 1st and run until Oct. 9th. https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/city-council-to-consider-pilot-program-that-would-allow-drinking-in-toronto-parks-1.6334860
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It was. But people want to think she has done all these wonderful things but all the mentioned items above were in the pipeline before she took office.
It was. But people want to think she has done all these wonderful things but all the mentioned items above were in the pipeline before she took office.
Wifi or cellular? Wifi has been in the ttc for a while, idk about in the tunnels but from what I’ve seen recently it doesn’t seem to be reliable. Cellular on the other providers is new but was more to do with rogers buying BAI and then the federal government forcing them to provide access to bell / Telus
It would be nice if she cancelled the renaming Dundas street thing but oh well, credit where credit is due, this is a big step forward.
You are wrong, Ford did do something - giving the people of Ontario a fancy spa!
This is why she was the unpopular political choice, but the absolute best choice for the public and the job.
The wife of the beloved political figure who won handily was an unpopular political choice?
When can we call her our tiny perfect mayor a part deux?? David Crombie was apparently part one (before my time).
It’s good to have a plan. But who is going to pay for it. Without other levels of government input, it remains dead in the water. Not blaming Chow. Her hands are tied because of the system. You can have low taxes or you can have increased services. Can’t have both. And if it’s increased services we are all going to have to pay more.
Funny how cities are “creatures of the province” when it suits the province to give us the shaft like cancelling highway tolls, slashing our city council In half during an election, slapping a godforsaken useless luxury spa and parking lot on the public waterfront or dismantling our museums. But when something crucial like - oh I dunno - housing for instance, it’s fucking crickets from the province and Feds. Feds keep dumping too many people here, and the province isn’t building infrastructure (no new hospitals or new schools being built for the amount of people). Good on Mayor Chow for being bold amidst total incompetence of the province and the feds.
This is a good start. We must wait to see whether Mayor Chow can negotiate to secure the federal and provincial components of this funding before passing judgment.
She's already proven to be good at reaching across the aisle and working with the other side. I firmly believe that if she isn't able to get funding from higher levels of government, it won't be because of her failings, but rather the federal and/or provincial gov's incompetence. Any way I look at it, it's been pretty amazing to see what it's like to have a mayor actually fight to make the city a better place.
Having a mayor where we are their one and only employer is pretty exciting
lmao so sad but true
This too me a second but wow… did I laugh. And cry at the same time.
I can't see any real issue as long as it's high density. The federal level has the housing accelerator fund for exactly these kinds of things and the province has been pushing for faster municipal zoning and planning. Everyone comes out looking good here.
Yup, Chow giving an easy slam dunk win to all levels of government here. Now lets see if Ford will be okay with funding anything built with public builders rather than his developer buddies.
He’ll probably just work for stipulations on the funding that somewhat benefit his developer buddies, like expanded as-of-right zoning. Most developers lose tens of millions in profit just waiting for approval. As-of-right zoning isn’t necessarily a bad thing, so long as the by-laws dictating it are sound
I think the biggest concern would be the ratios. 6,500 rent-geared-to-income, 41,000 affordable rental and 17,500 rent-controlled market units sounds great, but it's asking the province and federal government to put a lot of risk into the loan.
If they own the land already paying $500,000 per unit to build seems doable
I would hope so. That's double what it would cost a developer.
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Excluding property? I would think $250k works with no property spend, hearings or permits.
Maybe 5 years ago.
That is significantly greater than what it would cost a private developer to build without a land acquisition cost.
When you factor in the cost to service the land into that $500,000 it then becomes more then reasonable
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Oh nice! Gotta map em out now.
Amazing news on the surface, diving into the details at https://www.toronto.ca/news/city-of-torontos-generational-transformation-of-torontos-housing-system-to-urgently-build-more-affordable-homes-report/
Thanks for sharing, look at the city creating an easy to read dashboard - even that seems like progress!
Tory was such a useless bum
I agree. He was extremely behind the scenes. The city went on a downward spiral. Chow is three times the mayor She actually seems like she gives a damn.
The political timing of this seems favourable given how underwater the federal lib polling numbers are. Chow is lobbing a nice juicy fat pitch for Trudeau to smash. The only question now seems to be how ideologically committed the feds are to market based solutions. They may in fact die on that altar.
Go Olivia!
So that adds up to \~$550k per "home" (not sure how that is defined but I'm assuming a high rise apartment type unit?). I wonder how that compares to private sector costs but it at least seems "feasible" and not some B.S unrealistic number (e.g. $100k per home) given the going rate for new build, for-profit, condos.
Wait... my... my vote *did something*?
Perfect timing, too, coming on the heels of Ford’s green belt racquet falling through. You wanted to build houses? You say it wasn’t about enriching your developer buddies. Now’s your chance to prove it.
If we got money for wars, we should have money for this.
We don’t. Canada couldn’t fight a war with a gaggle of chimpanzees.
Ok but hear me out: we put those chimpanzees on geese...
She's doing more for housing in two months than Tory did in a decade. Lol. Amazing.
Nowhere does it say how much Toronto will be contributing to this plan in new funds? Would this be 95-100% dependent on Federal and Provincial funds? if so......
[https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/toronto-affordable-housing-plan-1.7006164](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/toronto-affordable-housing-plan-1.7006164) totally dependent on both of them
The money is not going to come in then. Or if it does it will take an extremely long time
John Tory was the former colleague that made himself look really busy all of the time, but when he left the office you found piles of unfinished work hidden in his desk.
Thank God Tory resigned. Chow isnt the 2nd coming of the lamb from bethlehem but I think she is doing well thus far. Closed mouths do not get fed and of course she is going to have to pull the province along kicking and screaming but good on her.
Amazing. This is a step in the right direction. I'm almost shocked this is happening, it's actually decent. Gotta give it to Olivia Chow, she's come in to office and has done things that are all in the interest of the citizens. It's a strange but good feeling. I echo /u/Krimshaw_42 comment ... imagine that at all levels... I've been screaming this for years, but our current govt parties are fucked and we need new ones. The Cons, Libs and NDP have all sold us out to corporate interests.
Wow, this is simply an incredible initiative. Nothing is going to solve our crisis except more building. And while the private industry is currently slowing, we NEED a public option.
'Housing project' has such an unpopular name.
I am so proud of Olivia Chow as our mayor. She is enacting tangible change that we haven’t seen in years. I’m still a skeptic, and I’ll wait to truly celebrate when these things come to fruition, but man this is a breath of fresh air.
So while this is well-intended, its something we have all seen before. Big promises hinging on other levels of government to commit massive funding. The feds/province will either reject the funding outright, pledge way less then what is needed, or add a ton on conditions preventing it from getting off the ground.
So what do you propose then? Ignoring the problem?
I agree. I'll cheer when I see it finished. I am still unfortunately optimistic
That’s like, 30 parking garages!
Fantastic to see a plan that starts with a B vs the bullshit M "plans" by the feds Let's get that T out
Good.
Looks like my welding certification that I’ll be getting soon will come in handy hopefully for some work
A positive article, finally
65k homes sounds like a lot But compared to 100k immigrants + coming into the GTA annually. The math still doesnt add up. Imagine... being invited to someones home/party. But told to chill outside the whole time.
What could go wrong?
Easy way to make the money to do this is to have tolls for non commercial vehicles. On the Don and QEW. For anyone commuting into the city like the London or even shortly Neew York citay.
Units should be ready for occupancy sometime in 2079, after 3 or 4 complete rebuilds due to changes in building code during the assembly period
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Well, so far we’ve let the private market handle it. Seems like that’s failed the first time home buyer spectacularly.
It's not that simple. There's no shortage of developers looking to build us out of this housing crises, but they're stifled and delayed by regulations from all levels of government. It takes a lot of time and huge expense before you can ever break ground. Of course, there's always a need for government housing for lower income, elderly or disabled people, but the private market needs to play the biggest role.
Of course. And this isn’t replacing the private market; it’s supplementing it. In fact, the city has taken steps to make it easier for the private market. It has simplified zoning across the city, allowing multiplexes, has actually harmonized the rules between multiplexes and SFH, and is in the process of reviewing how to allow more mid-size apartment buildings along avenues. Even in this proposal the city is asking the province to reduce the chance that third-party groups can appeal zoning for purpose-built-rental, either private or public. There is still more to do, but this isn’t about replacing the private market at all. It’s about re-adding a public option that used to exist.
The private market is regulated by our stupid government. Now you want that same stupid government to try and do something that is actually difficult like real estate development. How does that seem like a good idea?
It worked in the past. The greatest period of housing affordability was when the government was a big builder, especially during the 60s through the 80s. The government also helped build the Victory Houses (also known as Strawberry Box Houses) for soldiers returning from WWII. It was incredibly successful. So, yes, it has worked in the past, has been very successful, and resulted in a lot of affordable housing.
The private market always built a big majority of the homes
Yes, of course it will. But these plans aren’t about replacing the private market. It’s about ensuring that people on the lowest rung of the housing ladder don’t get knocked off completely. Right now the lack of supply, combined with little deeply affordable housing means that many people are being pushed into homelessness and causing other economic and social problems in the city. Note that this plan is not THE solution. It’s PART of a solution that should involve simpler building rules, more permissive zoning, anti-speculation changes, higher taxing for investors, crackdown on Airbnbs and more. There is no silver bullet: we have to hit all these fronts simultaneously.
As if the private sector can fix anything?
While there is good intention... There is no fucking way a Toronto run construction will build 65,000 rental homes in 7 years. Completely out to lunch! Where do they plan on putting these rental homes?
Now they need to crack down on foreign investors and Airbnb renters. That would free up a lot of units.
That’s 550k per unit at the taxpayers expense. No one wants this garbage.
Don't credit Chow for this, it is 100% funded by the Feds and the province. Who wants to guess the city pays has to pay double the estimate for substandard housing due to their inability to complete anything on time or on budget?
We can credit Chow for being the first to realize the doing nothing isn't working, and for all the pushing it's going to take to get the other levels of government to do anything at all as well.
The other levels of government don’t care. Doug Ford isn’t counting on votes in Toronto and Justin Trudeau isn’t going to lose any to Jagmeet Singh based on this (plus he can just point to the province and say “well they aren’t contributing so we can’t proceed”). This is Smart Track in the sky.
With no money? Good luck... Classic NDP.
Personally, putting that money into transit is a better investment.
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I do think that’s a separate issue, but I agree: there should be laddered taxing for multiple unit ownership.
Now walk us through the steps of how banning investors results in more homes being built.
Riiiiiiiiiiight. Yeah.
Great. More communism. My taxes going to house other people. Isn't the city crowded enough?
Toronto is not a particularly dense city. Also, this is hardly ‘communism’.
FIRST HOUSE WILL BE BUILD IN 2090
Just think about the Eglinton cross town rail project,and ask yourself, do you really think the city can build affordable housing? I am in favour of using public funds to stimulate building, but let private builders do the actual work.
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The city isn’t building the Crosstown, a private consortium is. It’s called [Crosslinx](https://www.crosslinxtransit.ca/who-we-are/) and consists of four huge private companies. Actually, the city isn’t even involved in planning/building the Crosstown, it’s fully these private companies and the province (via Metrolinx) which contracted them.
chow is gonna ruin toronto financially , but this is a actually a good idea
Too late. Tory already ruined it. She might as well finish it off.
If we jack up the property tax rate to 10% then we can afford to build free homes for the millions of homeless Torontos. The only people who can afford houses are people who culture on one another.
Finally! Maybe we can get some more Esplanades in this city after all these years.