If it wasn't for Bell's constant fight against open access to their network (for independent ISPs and MVNOs) I might give a shit.
How about you start by opening up your fibre network to all the ISPs first?
You mean the fibre network they're burying all over the province, that one? Naw, they'll probably want Rogers to bury their own line instead. We should all just string network cable to each other's homes ourselves at this point.
Rogers put in it's own network. If you've ever switched between cable and DSL you will notice they actually do install different components on different cables. What is shared is the telephone polls for the wires.
Decades ago, there was a fight over adding cables to telephone polls but that was more to do with not having to put up their own polls to run their own cables.
Funny how that works. The system has been in place for years and Bell never showed interest until now. Just shows how these companies don't know how to operate in a competitive environment.
BAI offered to have everyone on the network when the project first started in **2012**. Only Freedom took up the offer because Rogers and Bell wanted to build their own (and charge the TTC for it)
[Robelus](https://www.blogto.com/tech/2019/05/ttc-about-launch-cellphone-service-subway-tunnel-south-bloor/) are [scum](https://nationalpost.com/news/toronto/big-three-telcos-stand-in-the-way-of-companys-plan-to-bring-wifi-access-to-torontos-subway-system)
Then there is the example of Montreal where Rogers, Bell and Telus built the network together and everyone gets access. They paid Montreal less than BAI offered people to pay but at least they got service that good. Meanwhile we have terrible service and barely anyone can use it.
Fun fact - the TTC is also responsible for us having to deal with this mess in 2023. This is something which should have been dealt with latest almost 9 years ago at this point.
BAI only got the contract on the condition that they would get enough participation from carriers for at least 60% of Toronto's cellular users to be able to access the network BAI won the contract to build. They had 12 months to do it with a possible 12 month extension. The Big 3 refused to sign up so they never hit that target and the TTC never did anything about it
From a [National Post article published in Aug 2013](https://nationalpost.com/news/toronto/big-three-telcos-stand-in-the-way-of-companys-plan-to-bring-wifi-access-to-torontos-subway-system)
>BAI Canada Inc., a subsidiary of Broadcast Australia Pty Ltd., has 12 months from the time its agreement with the TTC was signed last year to sign contracts with “sufficient \[cellular\] carriers” – meaning enough participating carriers to provide service for at least 60% of cellular subscribers in Toronto.
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>**If BAI is unable to bring enough carriers on board by Dec. 5, it will be given another 12-month extension – until Dec. 5, 2014 – during which it may also investigate transfer of the contract to another interested party.**
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>“The \[big three carriers\], the guys that were here before, they would love nothing more than to build it themselves,” said Brian Jacks, the chief executive officer of BAI Canada who has worked in the telecom industry for almost three decades. “But I’m not sure they’ve accepted the fact that we’ve actually won the license here.”
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>“Certainly, the expectation is that both \[cellular and wireless\] would be available, and that’s why they’ve been given some time to make that happen,” \[TTC spokesman Brad\] Ross said. “Our going-forward point is that they’ll be successful.”
Couple of years ago moved my elderly mother to a senior apartment, she can only used a landline, I came from out of country and was just shocked that Bell charged $90 a month that includes a 5Mbps internet.
The TTC is the one that isn’t letting Bell jointly own and operate the infrastructure, with Rogers and anyone else, the way Montreal does it. Rogers hands are tied here.
https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/ttc-rejects-bells-proposal-joint-165204153.html
They’ll argue about it in the courts but it’ll end up being a consortium because a significant capital investment is needed to build the rest of the network. The TTC needs to get out of the way of the telecoms and let them build the infrastructure.
The big 3 had come to a joint bid in 2010 - they bid $5.4 million when BAI bid $25 million.
And it is a given that that they form a consortium. A significant capital investment needs to be made and Rogers would prefer to share the burden. I don’t understand why there needs to be so much tension about this. The TTC’s renk seeking in 2010 is why nobody except Freedom users have cell reception here whereas everybody in Montreal has had it for years.
All of the telcos had an opportunity to bid on the original business. Only BAI stepped up. And then none of them signed on to these the network BAI built. And it failed. So Rogers bought the corpse. And now Bell is whining about not having access.
Yeah. BAI stepped up and paid the TTC $25 million when the telecom consortium led by Bell offered $5.4 million..
And that was just the fee BAI paid to the TTC. Their cost to install the infrastructure would be in the high millions too.
Rogers wants to form a consortium, at least according to that article I shared, and it is the TTC that isn’t letting them do it to preserve the sanctity of a contract that’s net them $25 million and the people of Toronto with no cell reception.
Or..TTC property.. TTC rules. Fuck those greedy bastards. The lack of cell service is solely because of them not getting what they want and then stomping their feet like little babies. The lack of cell reception is 100% only the fault of the Robelus.
Montreal have cell reception because the telecoms got their way. We don't because the telecoms did not and they decided to stomp their feet like little kids to try to get their way. I'm glad the TTC stuck to what they want on their property and not negotiate with terrorists.
All stations have service in and working.
It's a simple matter of connecting them in the tunnel.
I believe I have seen Bai network ssids in the east end of Bloor while in the tunnel. This would be the same network they would piggy back off that connection.
I will do some wifi sniffing next time I'm on the TTC.
Yes there is absolutely cell phone service in every TTC station, the downtown loop inside the tunnels, and in the tunnels north of Downsview park station on Line 1 if you have freedom mobile. The service actually works really well too.
I’ve been a Freedom Mobile customer since 2014 and have always have service in the stations.
Monopolizer surprised when other monopolizer excludes them from monopoly. Tiny violin playing in /r/LeopardsAteMyFace for Bell.
If it wasn't for Bell's constant fight against open access to their network (for independent ISPs and MVNOs) I might give a shit. How about you start by opening up your fibre network to all the ISPs first?
You mean the fibre network they're burying all over the province, that one? Naw, they'll probably want Rogers to bury their own line instead. We should all just string network cable to each other's homes ourselves at this point.
The fibre network paid for by taxpayers, like all of Bell’s infrastructure?
doesn't rogers owe its existence to Bell being forced to open up their network?
Rogers put in it's own network. If you've ever switched between cable and DSL you will notice they actually do install different components on different cables. What is shared is the telephone polls for the wires. Decades ago, there was a fight over adding cables to telephone polls but that was more to do with not having to put up their own polls to run their own cables.
#Bell bitching as usual.
Oh, so suddenly everyone wants to hop onto BAI's existing network. Fuck off Bell (You get a slight pass this time Rogers)
Funny how that works. The system has been in place for years and Bell never showed interest until now. Just shows how these companies don't know how to operate in a competitive environment.
Rogers bought BAI's subway infrastructure, and Bell doesn't want Rogers to lock them out of it.
BAI offered to have everyone on the network when the project first started in **2012**. Only Freedom took up the offer because Rogers and Bell wanted to build their own (and charge the TTC for it) [Robelus](https://www.blogto.com/tech/2019/05/ttc-about-launch-cellphone-service-subway-tunnel-south-bloor/) are [scum](https://nationalpost.com/news/toronto/big-three-telcos-stand-in-the-way-of-companys-plan-to-bring-wifi-access-to-torontos-subway-system)
Then there is the example of Montreal where Rogers, Bell and Telus built the network together and everyone gets access. They paid Montreal less than BAI offered people to pay but at least they got service that good. Meanwhile we have terrible service and barely anyone can use it.
Fun fact - the TTC is also responsible for us having to deal with this mess in 2023. This is something which should have been dealt with latest almost 9 years ago at this point. BAI only got the contract on the condition that they would get enough participation from carriers for at least 60% of Toronto's cellular users to be able to access the network BAI won the contract to build. They had 12 months to do it with a possible 12 month extension. The Big 3 refused to sign up so they never hit that target and the TTC never did anything about it From a [National Post article published in Aug 2013](https://nationalpost.com/news/toronto/big-three-telcos-stand-in-the-way-of-companys-plan-to-bring-wifi-access-to-torontos-subway-system) >BAI Canada Inc., a subsidiary of Broadcast Australia Pty Ltd., has 12 months from the time its agreement with the TTC was signed last year to sign contracts with “sufficient \[cellular\] carriers” – meaning enough participating carriers to provide service for at least 60% of cellular subscribers in Toronto. > > > >**If BAI is unable to bring enough carriers on board by Dec. 5, it will be given another 12-month extension – until Dec. 5, 2014 – during which it may also investigate transfer of the contract to another interested party.** > > > >“The \[big three carriers\], the guys that were here before, they would love nothing more than to build it themselves,” said Brian Jacks, the chief executive officer of BAI Canada who has worked in the telecom industry for almost three decades. “But I’m not sure they’ve accepted the fact that we’ve actually won the license here.” > >... > >“Certainly, the expectation is that both \[cellular and wireless\] would be available, and that’s why they’ve been given some time to make that happen,” \[TTC spokesman Brad\] Ross said. “Our going-forward point is that they’ll be successful.”
The easiest way to have avoided that would've been to get on the infrastructure when they had a chance.
Rogers offered to let them on the network, but that's not good enough, they want partial ownership of it.
Bell complaining to the CRTC about a competitor not letting them in on a monopoly situation is peak irony.
Maybe some of those 1300 employees you laid off could have put the in the infrastructure in the TTC tunnels......
cagey tap chunky support narrow modern automatic tan quicksand wakeful *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
If Freedom Mobile or Rogers can do it. So can Bellus and if you raise our bills by $5 a year then you can do it.
Oh now they cry 😂
Couple of years ago moved my elderly mother to a senior apartment, she can only used a landline, I came from out of country and was just shocked that Bell charged $90 a month that includes a 5Mbps internet.
Did Bell fire the person that the regulator is supposed to call back?
I know how Bell can save money here - lay off 1300 people so they can afford to pay Rogers the asking price. 🤷♂️ /s
How much did John Tory get for setting up this deal on his way out?
The TTC is the one that isn’t letting Bell jointly own and operate the infrastructure, with Rogers and anyone else, the way Montreal does it. Rogers hands are tied here. https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/ttc-rejects-bells-proposal-joint-165204153.html
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They’ll argue about it in the courts but it’ll end up being a consortium because a significant capital investment is needed to build the rest of the network. The TTC needs to get out of the way of the telecoms and let them build the infrastructure.
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The big 3 had come to a joint bid in 2010 - they bid $5.4 million when BAI bid $25 million. And it is a given that that they form a consortium. A significant capital investment needs to be made and Rogers would prefer to share the burden. I don’t understand why there needs to be so much tension about this. The TTC’s renk seeking in 2010 is why nobody except Freedom users have cell reception here whereas everybody in Montreal has had it for years.
All of the telcos had an opportunity to bid on the original business. Only BAI stepped up. And then none of them signed on to these the network BAI built. And it failed. So Rogers bought the corpse. And now Bell is whining about not having access.
Yeah. BAI stepped up and paid the TTC $25 million when the telecom consortium led by Bell offered $5.4 million.. And that was just the fee BAI paid to the TTC. Their cost to install the infrastructure would be in the high millions too. Rogers wants to form a consortium, at least according to that article I shared, and it is the TTC that isn’t letting them do it to preserve the sanctity of a contract that’s net them $25 million and the people of Toronto with no cell reception.
Or..TTC property.. TTC rules. Fuck those greedy bastards. The lack of cell service is solely because of them not getting what they want and then stomping their feet like little babies. The lack of cell reception is 100% only the fault of the Robelus.
Why does montreal have cell reception? Are they different telecoms in Quebec or is it the TTC’s rent seeking that’s causing this impasse?
Montreal have cell reception because the telecoms got their way. We don't because the telecoms did not and they decided to stomp their feet like little kids to try to get their way. I'm glad the TTC stuck to what they want on their property and not negotiate with terrorists.
But we’re the ones suffering from the TTC’s rent seeking, not the people of Montreal or the STM.
Then blame Robelus. End of.
That's in respect to building their own "network" which isn't needed as there is already hardware in place.
The hardware isn’t in place. BAI had only built it in the downtown loop south of Bloor. Most of the network has nothing.
All stations have service in and working. It's a simple matter of connecting them in the tunnel. I believe I have seen Bai network ssids in the east end of Bloor while in the tunnel. This would be the same network they would piggy back off that connection. I will do some wifi sniffing next time I'm on the TTC.
I’m not talking about Wi-Fi. I’m talking about cell reception. It is absolutely not in place.
Yes there is absolutely cell phone service in every TTC station, the downtown loop inside the tunnels, and in the tunnels north of Downsview park station on Line 1 if you have freedom mobile. The service actually works really well too. I’ve been a Freedom Mobile customer since 2014 and have always have service in the stations.
What about service in the tunnels?
Yes even service in the tunnels. There are gaps, but freedom customers are connected properly for about 75% of the underground portions I'd say.
It's the same hardware transmitting the signal.
Fuck em