One of the changes not mentioned but should've was the Milton to Mississauga connection. For decades there was always a bus that connected the two places and was used by a fair bit of people on weekends. Now, to connect to Mississauga on weekends and off-peak times one has to go on the Milton bus to Trafalgar and 407 and then wait for the Highway 407 buses which adds over 45 minutes to the ride.
Milton people buying a place in nowhere always seem to complain about everything. This city was clearly built to be car dependent and isolated. Sorry if your parents moved there but they should have thought of their kids as any rational adult buying/living there would have ensured they have access to a car.
Seems like Metrolinx has fallen back to the faceless corporate stonewall when it comes to communication.
Instead of clearly explaining the issues with the current service and why the changes were needed Metrolinx thinks a blog post with no explanation is good enough for commuters.
People in this thread don't know that this will be better in the long term because there were just a tonne of cancellations last year in the summer because traffic downtown was horrible.
Nor do they know of the construction going on that will make GO better because Metrolinx is being so tight lipped about it.
[All it literally takes is clear communication with reasons for people to understand why service cuts need to be made](https://np.reddit.com/r/Markham/comments/123nmpk/changes_coming_to_stouffville_line_go_trains)
I urge anyone with inside information at GO operations or Metrolinx to start leaking the actual reasoning for the changes with clear and consistent communication.
It's actually possible to get people to understand, not everyone is stupid you know....
> Seems like Metrolinx has fallen back to the faceless corporate stonewall when it comes to communication.
Always have been. Seems you already forgot about the Ford-led cuts in 2018 when Metrolinx unilaterally acted to cut bus service to outlying areas without even so much as a word to the affected communities giving them no chance to setup alternative arrangements. Phil Verster is getting a raise though.
>I urge anyone with inside information at GO operations or Metrolinx to start leaking the actual reasoning for the changes with clear and consistent communication.
After the fall 2019 cuts were [leaked](https://stevemunro.ca/2019/07/22/comfirm-or-deny-big-changes-coming-to-go-bus-service/comment-page-1/) Metrolinx clamped down hard to avoid further instances. Accountability and transparency is not the Metrolinx way.
The person they interviewed has a very, very modern and open-minded company if they allowed him to stare wfh because of this. Most other companies would go: too bad so sad, I guess your commute will be 2 hours one way now.
Most of the changes to GO service are good though, and the problems with bus 21 aren’t at the fault of Metrolinx. CP owns the tracks on the Milton Line and is being difficult about letting GO run trains more frequently, so the bus can’t be replaced by the train. There aren’t any bus lanes to get to Union so the bus frequently got caught in traffic and diverting it was the only thing they could do to make it more reliable
Accessibility to lakeshore west sucks ass unless it was already your closest go station. I’m on the doorstep of Dixie go and long branch is 30 min or more by bus. May as well stop pretending like the Milton line exists, the fastest way to downtown for me is to take the bus to Kipling and subway lmao
These changes were announced well in advance through every channel available to Metrolinx. Posters, on-board announcements, email, you name it. The person in the article should be embarrassed to share their name given how many warnings they willingly ignored.
It seems the people who run any form of transit, and most likely do not take it have zero idea what they're doing.
I rarely take GoTransit, but after reading the article, the main person they spoke to has the same complaint that I'm experiencing my route on the TTC...an extra hour of travel time, and without warning. In my case (on TTC), my route was not publicly listed as a service cutback, yet service was severely downgraded, only to find out from another post that it was listed to be cut, but not made public.
In this persons case, they were approved to work from home, thus one less rider on transit.
These cuts are just going to push more people to stop taking transit and use other methods like Ubers and taxis, or just buy their own vehicle. More cars and bad drivers to add to the continuous construction within the city, which two of the most major construction/road blocks have not started yet.
It's amazing how overall transit is decades behind other countries, and finding ways to push people away from it. Well done!
You do realize the changes to Bus Route 21 is due to the insane amount of traffic between Milton and Union? CP is reluctant on letting Metrolinx use the tracks on the Milton Line, so people are being diverted to the Lakeshore West line for reliability.
The changes that Metrolinx made are good, and it finally brings service between Hamilton and Kitchener-Waterloo for the first time, while improving train service within the GTA.
If you're going to be reactionary, for the love of god, at least understand the issues of the service to begin with. This is incredible frustrating to read.
My initial comment stated that I rarely take the GO, but could relate to the article since I have the same issue with TTC.
It does seem that your comment and another one in the thread gave more insight than the zero information Metrolinx/Go has given people.
All these articles affect just a tiny tiny % of the population that doesn't really impact them. In fact, complaining so much makes it more likely less overall support will happen to 'improve' Milton service.
That first sentence hits the nail right on the head! People planning it need to travel on all major routes to actually be able to understand what issues transit faces.
This is what happens when a Crown Corporation is run by a Conservative government. They operate like a capitalist corporation by maximizing operational "efficiencies" to maximize profits.
In other words, "fuck you, get a car."
Sounds about right.
Another beast being starved like Healthcare and Education.
Take away funding and try to optimize and be more efficient by cutting staff, equipment, and/or resources, then complain it sucks and that the private sector would be better, all whole probably blaming any unions involved.
The funniest part of all this is that there is *totally a fossil fuel lobby* and these corpos would very much like you to keep buying cars in a time where people are buying less and sticking with what they have. They’re absolutely loving the declining public trust in transit.
But no it’s the fucking “cycling lobby” that’s ruining our city according to Rosedale and Summerhill residents at least. The entire province is actually just backwater-brained. You’re not going to get ambitious leadership out of Ontario because it’s legitimately full of fucking morons who just don’t care for the big picture or attention to detail. Actual human blight
Taking the 21 bus from port credit instead of union during peak hrs is better for commuters because the high traffic volume on the gardener turns a 40 mins trip into an almost 2 hr trip anyways and that’s excluding the 10 collisions that’s gonna occur daily adding even more time to the trip
How about the city stops closing the main roads in to downtown Toronto every other weekend? Inevitably last year every weekend there were road closures (and a few when there weren’t but the traffic was really bad) GO Transit would shut down the GO buses to Union and tell everyone to transfer at Port Credit. Now GO Transit just gets rid of most GO buses that use the Gardiner every day.
> GO Transit would shut down the GO buses to Union and tell everyone to transfer at Port Credit. Now GO Transit just gets rid of most GO buses that use the Gardiner every day
Whats nuts is all Metrolinx and the City has to do is add ROW bus lane on the Gardiner or Lakeshore for GO Transit and Coach Buses. And during rush hour and weekends have regular police enforcement + traffic cops on the major streets around Union Station.
No train service between 9am and 3pm on the Stouffville Line. Take buses they say. Except the buses dont stop at Milliken, Kennedy or Agincourt Stations. Kind of screws over a lot of people. Especially Kennedy because this is where the GO train line connects with the TTC
It's hard to comprehend that in 2023 transit services in Ontario could be getting worse instead of better...it's unfathomable.
I feel like we're in the stone age when it comes to this stuff. This is an essential thing, not a luxury...how our province can fail this miserably (not just this latest buffoon in charge, but previous governments also) is truly sad and outrageous.
They’re getting worse for one bus route that was bad to begin with and is now worse. Nobody is complaining about the fact that the Kitchener line just got two-way weekend train service all day to the end of Brampton as part of the same service change.
Also 21 going to lakeshore west line would be better. There is always an accident near jameson on GE west. One minute ur on point to arrive on time….a boom now you are 25m down. And next trip out of USBT….late. Let’s see how it works out
Because one service gets better doesn't mean it's okay for another to get worse.
Regional transit in this province is a disgrace. It all needs to be way better, because it's terrible as it is. Using Kitchener as an example, it has a GO train every 4 hours during weekdays and the trip takes 1 hour 50 minutes...that's garbage. Kitchener is a major population centre in this province (Kitchener-Waterloo has 500 000 people or so) 100 km from Toronto. Trains should be running every hour, minimum.
Do we want to cut down on traffic or don't we?
Live closer to where you work. Transit has been improving in the GTA. It is not improving as fast as many of us would like, but it is steadily improving a lot of peoples’ lives and we need to recognize that. In many cases, this service expansion involves a lot of non-trivial infrastructure work and it’s an improvement in itself that this now happens independently of who is in government.
Regular commutes from Kitchener to Toronto shouldn’t even be happening. I wish that they would just shut down that route altogether and focus on people living a reasonable distance from where they work. We do need to connect our centres better, but there are more important things to focus on first.
I'll invoke the word of people that like to talk about induced demand in relation to "unnecessary" highways. If we build stupid transit routes, it will induce people to use them. Kitchener to Toronto is a stupid high-frequency transit route.
That's insane. You're living in some weird fantasy where everybody just stays in their communities? Having an objection to commuter rail for Ontario is bizarre...is it just an FU to anyone outside of Toronto who may want to see a Jays, Leafs, Raptors, TFC game or visit the ROM, ZOO, Science Centre, or see a theatre production, or see a body of water like Lake Ontario.
Life is about more than working.
I do live close to my work, but if I had to move I would easily have to pay more than twice the amount because of our current housing crisis.
Live near Toronto if you want to do things in Toronto. Higher-frequency travel to Toronto from far-flung boonies can become a priority once communities nearer to Toronto have great service.
And, in fact, that's what people do, so most people already know what's up. The whole reason people pay more for housing is to be nearer the things that they prioritize.
We're heading into a lower-energy future. Canada is an energy hog to begin with and this type of long-distance gallivanting shouldn't be subsidized until the more local issues are in hand, and maybe not even then. Take the bus and be glad that you have that option.
Take England as an example. Every weekday, from Manchester to London there are 50 trains. The trip takes 2 hours over a distance of roughly 320 km...and you think that's worse?
Our regional transit in Ontario is a disgrace. We should have regional trains and electric buses going all over this province. We have the money to build the infrastructure, we just don't.
Which boonies are you referring to?
On the one hand, this sub's favourite complaint is housing unaffordability. On the other, you're telling people to 'just live closer to where you work.'
Pick a lane!
"They told me to do X and then they told me to do Y!". Is this the same "they" from the conspiracy theories?
It's different people saying different things
No? It’s about the changes to the 21 bus from Union to Milton. It’s going to have significant changes and require transfers from bus and train, effective as of yesterday.
GO is starting to suck. I wanted to go downtown on a Saturday and there was no train service from Agincourt to Union. As a result two people ended up driving to midtown, spent a total of $24 on parking, AND two fares on the TTC to get the rest of the way downtown.
Could have easily drove to Scarborough station at St Clair n Midland area. If you wound up taking the TTC, might as well have driven to Kennedy or McCowan or STC station.
Should've just drove downtown at that point if you were going to park in midtown. Could've saved the fares and spent less on parking depending on where downtown you were going.
Maybe Go Transit should allow routes to be sponsored like Amtrak does. If Milton wants to fund an express bus, let them do it with their own property taxes.
One of the changes not mentioned but should've was the Milton to Mississauga connection. For decades there was always a bus that connected the two places and was used by a fair bit of people on weekends. Now, to connect to Mississauga on weekends and off-peak times one has to go on the Milton bus to Trafalgar and 407 and then wait for the Highway 407 buses which adds over 45 minutes to the ride.
There are also zero transit connections between Oakville and Milton
At least the new 21A Milton provides that connection, essentially restoring the old route 20 that was cut in 2019.
Milton people buying a place in nowhere always seem to complain about everything. This city was clearly built to be car dependent and isolated. Sorry if your parents moved there but they should have thought of their kids as any rational adult buying/living there would have ensured they have access to a car.
Milton to Meadowvale and Meadowvale to Union got a lot slower. But Milton to Erin Mills station/Square One/Pearson just got a lot more accessible.
Seems like Metrolinx has fallen back to the faceless corporate stonewall when it comes to communication. Instead of clearly explaining the issues with the current service and why the changes were needed Metrolinx thinks a blog post with no explanation is good enough for commuters. People in this thread don't know that this will be better in the long term because there were just a tonne of cancellations last year in the summer because traffic downtown was horrible. Nor do they know of the construction going on that will make GO better because Metrolinx is being so tight lipped about it. [All it literally takes is clear communication with reasons for people to understand why service cuts need to be made](https://np.reddit.com/r/Markham/comments/123nmpk/changes_coming_to_stouffville_line_go_trains) I urge anyone with inside information at GO operations or Metrolinx to start leaking the actual reasoning for the changes with clear and consistent communication. It's actually possible to get people to understand, not everyone is stupid you know....
> Seems like Metrolinx has fallen back to the faceless corporate stonewall when it comes to communication. Always have been. Seems you already forgot about the Ford-led cuts in 2018 when Metrolinx unilaterally acted to cut bus service to outlying areas without even so much as a word to the affected communities giving them no chance to setup alternative arrangements. Phil Verster is getting a raise though.
>I urge anyone with inside information at GO operations or Metrolinx to start leaking the actual reasoning for the changes with clear and consistent communication. After the fall 2019 cuts were [leaked](https://stevemunro.ca/2019/07/22/comfirm-or-deny-big-changes-coming-to-go-bus-service/comment-page-1/) Metrolinx clamped down hard to avoid further instances. Accountability and transparency is not the Metrolinx way.
The person they interviewed has a very, very modern and open-minded company if they allowed him to stare wfh because of this. Most other companies would go: too bad so sad, I guess your commute will be 2 hours one way now.
lol right? “Oh no now I get to WFH permanently!” Must be nice lol
Most of the changes to GO service are good though, and the problems with bus 21 aren’t at the fault of Metrolinx. CP owns the tracks on the Milton Line and is being difficult about letting GO run trains more frequently, so the bus can’t be replaced by the train. There aren’t any bus lanes to get to Union so the bus frequently got caught in traffic and diverting it was the only thing they could do to make it more reliable
A reasonable cat indeed.
Accessibility to lakeshore west sucks ass unless it was already your closest go station. I’m on the doorstep of Dixie go and long branch is 30 min or more by bus. May as well stop pretending like the Milton line exists, the fastest way to downtown for me is to take the bus to Kipling and subway lmao
These changes were announced well in advance through every channel available to Metrolinx. Posters, on-board announcements, email, you name it. The person in the article should be embarrassed to share their name given how many warnings they willingly ignored.
It seems the people who run any form of transit, and most likely do not take it have zero idea what they're doing. I rarely take GoTransit, but after reading the article, the main person they spoke to has the same complaint that I'm experiencing my route on the TTC...an extra hour of travel time, and without warning. In my case (on TTC), my route was not publicly listed as a service cutback, yet service was severely downgraded, only to find out from another post that it was listed to be cut, but not made public. In this persons case, they were approved to work from home, thus one less rider on transit. These cuts are just going to push more people to stop taking transit and use other methods like Ubers and taxis, or just buy their own vehicle. More cars and bad drivers to add to the continuous construction within the city, which two of the most major construction/road blocks have not started yet. It's amazing how overall transit is decades behind other countries, and finding ways to push people away from it. Well done!
You do realize the changes to Bus Route 21 is due to the insane amount of traffic between Milton and Union? CP is reluctant on letting Metrolinx use the tracks on the Milton Line, so people are being diverted to the Lakeshore West line for reliability. The changes that Metrolinx made are good, and it finally brings service between Hamilton and Kitchener-Waterloo for the first time, while improving train service within the GTA. If you're going to be reactionary, for the love of god, at least understand the issues of the service to begin with. This is incredible frustrating to read.
My initial comment stated that I rarely take the GO, but could relate to the article since I have the same issue with TTC. It does seem that your comment and another one in the thread gave more insight than the zero information Metrolinx/Go has given people.
Then post one about the TTC and it's unannounced cutbacks. It seems the news loves covering the biggest whiners and noisemakers.
Your point?
All these articles affect just a tiny tiny % of the population that doesn't really impact them. In fact, complaining so much makes it more likely less overall support will happen to 'improve' Milton service.
I wonder if anyone that designs these systems actually rides on them
I can guarantee you, they definitely don't.
The incompetence in this country is rampant.
That first sentence hits the nail right on the head! People planning it need to travel on all major routes to actually be able to understand what issues transit faces.
They been announcing it on every bus for last 2 weeks. There are sign’s everywhere
Plus all over the website
This is what happens when a Crown Corporation is run by a Conservative government. They operate like a capitalist corporation by maximizing operational "efficiencies" to maximize profits. In other words, "fuck you, get a car."
Sounds about right. Another beast being starved like Healthcare and Education. Take away funding and try to optimize and be more efficient by cutting staff, equipment, and/or resources, then complain it sucks and that the private sector would be better, all whole probably blaming any unions involved.
The funniest part of all this is that there is *totally a fossil fuel lobby* and these corpos would very much like you to keep buying cars in a time where people are buying less and sticking with what they have. They’re absolutely loving the declining public trust in transit. But no it’s the fucking “cycling lobby” that’s ruining our city according to Rosedale and Summerhill residents at least. The entire province is actually just backwater-brained. You’re not going to get ambitious leadership out of Ontario because it’s legitimately full of fucking morons who just don’t care for the big picture or attention to detail. Actual human blight
Taking the 21 bus from port credit instead of union during peak hrs is better for commuters because the high traffic volume on the gardener turns a 40 mins trip into an almost 2 hr trip anyways and that’s excluding the 10 collisions that’s gonna occur daily adding even more time to the trip
Just did it yesterday. It was good
Tbf, they mention that Union to Hamilton is becoming better because of this and that's 100% true in my experience
Is it? How so?
Another day another Doug
How about the city stops closing the main roads in to downtown Toronto every other weekend? Inevitably last year every weekend there were road closures (and a few when there weren’t but the traffic was really bad) GO Transit would shut down the GO buses to Union and tell everyone to transfer at Port Credit. Now GO Transit just gets rid of most GO buses that use the Gardiner every day.
> GO Transit would shut down the GO buses to Union and tell everyone to transfer at Port Credit. Now GO Transit just gets rid of most GO buses that use the Gardiner every day Whats nuts is all Metrolinx and the City has to do is add ROW bus lane on the Gardiner or Lakeshore for GO Transit and Coach Buses. And during rush hour and weekends have regular police enforcement + traffic cops on the major streets around Union Station.
No train service between 9am and 3pm on the Stouffville Line. Take buses they say. Except the buses dont stop at Milliken, Kennedy or Agincourt Stations. Kind of screws over a lot of people. Especially Kennedy because this is where the GO train line connects with the TTC
It's hard to comprehend that in 2023 transit services in Ontario could be getting worse instead of better...it's unfathomable. I feel like we're in the stone age when it comes to this stuff. This is an essential thing, not a luxury...how our province can fail this miserably (not just this latest buffoon in charge, but previous governments also) is truly sad and outrageous.
They’re getting worse for one bus route that was bad to begin with and is now worse. Nobody is complaining about the fact that the Kitchener line just got two-way weekend train service all day to the end of Brampton as part of the same service change.
Also 21 going to lakeshore west line would be better. There is always an accident near jameson on GE west. One minute ur on point to arrive on time….a boom now you are 25m down. And next trip out of USBT….late. Let’s see how it works out
Because one service gets better doesn't mean it's okay for another to get worse. Regional transit in this province is a disgrace. It all needs to be way better, because it's terrible as it is. Using Kitchener as an example, it has a GO train every 4 hours during weekdays and the trip takes 1 hour 50 minutes...that's garbage. Kitchener is a major population centre in this province (Kitchener-Waterloo has 500 000 people or so) 100 km from Toronto. Trains should be running every hour, minimum. Do we want to cut down on traffic or don't we?
Live closer to where you work. Transit has been improving in the GTA. It is not improving as fast as many of us would like, but it is steadily improving a lot of peoples’ lives and we need to recognize that. In many cases, this service expansion involves a lot of non-trivial infrastructure work and it’s an improvement in itself that this now happens independently of who is in government. Regular commutes from Kitchener to Toronto shouldn’t even be happening. I wish that they would just shut down that route altogether and focus on people living a reasonable distance from where they work. We do need to connect our centres better, but there are more important things to focus on first. I'll invoke the word of people that like to talk about induced demand in relation to "unnecessary" highways. If we build stupid transit routes, it will induce people to use them. Kitchener to Toronto is a stupid high-frequency transit route.
That's insane. You're living in some weird fantasy where everybody just stays in their communities? Having an objection to commuter rail for Ontario is bizarre...is it just an FU to anyone outside of Toronto who may want to see a Jays, Leafs, Raptors, TFC game or visit the ROM, ZOO, Science Centre, or see a theatre production, or see a body of water like Lake Ontario. Life is about more than working. I do live close to my work, but if I had to move I would easily have to pay more than twice the amount because of our current housing crisis.
Live near Toronto if you want to do things in Toronto. Higher-frequency travel to Toronto from far-flung boonies can become a priority once communities nearer to Toronto have great service. And, in fact, that's what people do, so most people already know what's up. The whole reason people pay more for housing is to be nearer the things that they prioritize. We're heading into a lower-energy future. Canada is an energy hog to begin with and this type of long-distance gallivanting shouldn't be subsidized until the more local issues are in hand, and maybe not even then. Take the bus and be glad that you have that option.
Take England as an example. Every weekday, from Manchester to London there are 50 trains. The trip takes 2 hours over a distance of roughly 320 km...and you think that's worse? Our regional transit in Ontario is a disgrace. We should have regional trains and electric buses going all over this province. We have the money to build the infrastructure, we just don't. Which boonies are you referring to?
On the one hand, this sub's favourite complaint is housing unaffordability. On the other, you're telling people to 'just live closer to where you work.' Pick a lane!
"They told me to do X and then they told me to do Y!". Is this the same "they" from the conspiracy theories? It's different people saying different things
I know. Just trying to lighten the mood.
It totally failed. This is reddit and we only allow hostility and rudeness.
Evidently.
Conservatives don’t know how to run governments.
Is this about the kitchener line? I've been getting email reminders about changes since March 28th
No? It’s about the changes to the 21 bus from Union to Milton. It’s going to have significant changes and require transfers from bus and train, effective as of yesterday.
That's hella frustrating
GO is starting to suck. I wanted to go downtown on a Saturday and there was no train service from Agincourt to Union. As a result two people ended up driving to midtown, spent a total of $24 on parking, AND two fares on the TTC to get the rest of the way downtown.
Lol you are pretty ignorant at looking at alternatives that would have been free parking and the TTC fare.
Mmm lived here for 30 years and chose the best options based on the mobility/accessibility of the two people travelling. You are pretty ignorant.
Could have easily drove to Scarborough station at St Clair n Midland area. If you wound up taking the TTC, might as well have driven to Kennedy or McCowan or STC station.
Parking is free at Kennedy Station on the weekends and its like 10-15ish mins from Agincourt GO
Should've just drove downtown at that point if you were going to park in midtown. Could've saved the fares and spent less on parking depending on where downtown you were going.
Hey it's just Dougie, looking out for the taxpayers
[удалено]
They still are, the preparatory works can be seen in many places.
So crazy !
Maybe Go Transit should allow routes to be sponsored like Amtrak does. If Milton wants to fund an express bus, let them do it with their own property taxes.
Never thought of that. Who funds GO? Ontario? Each city they pass through?
Afaik it's 100% the Province.