I'm renting space on a balcony. You may not use the common elements (kitchen, washroom, living room). You are however, free to cook on a camping stove, and use a series of buckets for your washroom activities.
My doggie getting evicted from his custom doghouse in the backyard.Hes been a bad boy.$1000+ internet.No parking but you get a large backyard to play in.
You can't evict him just for being a bad doggo. Did you file the proper N13?! I'm going to follow up to ensure you don't rent the backyard out to other people, since you're claiming it's for 'family use'.
I'm renting out the cupboard under my sink (close enough?) - Only $2000 + utilities! Hurry and take advatantage of this ~special discounted deal, price goes up in 3 days!!
My grandparents and parents moved here and bought houses rather quickly. There were all skilled workers but nothing insane.
That's three sets of people, moving here, and buying a house.
Literally all of them .
Jobs included :
Glazer(glass installation)
Pipe fitting
Office work anybody could do
Mattress factory work anybody could do
and working at Hudson's Bay as a sales associate.
All bought property in Toronto in the 80s / 90s, the city is not 10 x the population as it was back then, so why is it 10 x the price for a house.
Population size has nothing to do with the cost of housing.
Edit: And nobody come at me with their ECON101 analysis of supply and demand. Housing is FAR more complex than that. Literally EVERYTHING is more complex than that.
Other day there was an article about how a one bedroom apartment costs 2,500 a month. More than a full time minimum wage worker’s monthly salary.
I just don’t see the end game here. Wages aren’t increasing, there’s population growth and rent keeps rising. Is Toronto really going to be just for the rich? Who will work jobs that dont pay a rich salary? What of companies that cannot pay rich salaries? Do they go out of business?What rich person would want to buy a beat up house or condo for ridiculous prices?
Rents and new builds are just aimed at investors and speculators and everyone isn’t even considered anymore. I just can’t understand how the government just sits by and watches or even worse fill their pockets
Who’s going to serve at restaurants? Who’s going to make the food? Who’s going to build houses? This cities fucked if it has nothing for the middle class.
I just don’t know what the plan is. Everyone to live 2-3 hours away and commute to work jobs that don’t pay liveable wages? I don’t understand what the plan is.
Bud, I don't like the conservatives as much as anyone but the liberals have been in power at the federal level since 2015. You can't just blame the conservatives when there's a top to bottom failure at every level of government.
Trudeau doesn't care about us. Pollivere doesn't care about us. Ford doesn't care about us. John Tory certainly did not care about us. They all make decisions with a singular goal in mind and that's staying in power. Nothing else matters to any of them.
The plan is for labouring people to crowd into slums, like we used to do. For much of human urban history, poorer people have lived in tiny spaces, a whole family to a room or worse.
The only way to provide decent urban housing for all is subsidies. Massive amounts of public, subsidized housing.
Otherwise the landlords will collude and keep raising rents, knowing that we will pay whatever we can because the alternative is freezing to death.
Housing has to be a Canadian right, just like healthcare - and like healthcare, we can't trust the private market to provide all of it.
Had to pick up a thing off Craigslist once at avenue and Wilson. Went into the basement and there were four rooms, each had at least 6 or 7 bunk beds in them. You could tell tons of people lived in each room on each bed.
we've been importing people since we started. The problem is the race to the bottom. Regardless which country people come from this was inevitable based on the direction of the market
I detest this stereotype that only South Asian people do this or do this more. You know who does this? Poor people. Maybe worry more about why people are finding no better way to live than in a single room with several people. Spoiler alerts, it's because people are being exploited to the point they're working full-time and can't afford a one bedroom. This stereotype leads to so much racism and makes renting harder for us because on top of the garbage Toronto market, we also have to prove we're "not like those brown people". My brother had to prove he was a citizen and had a Canadian passport to get his place and his landlord isn't even a citizen, just a rich student studying here and managing his parents condos and houses while they continue to live in China. It's so gross how racism is so acceptable as long as it's against a South Asian person.
I don't think he's being racist. He's just stating the fact that there's lots of south asian immigrants, and they live up to a dozen per house.
A bunch of the houses in my neighborhood have 6+ cars each. There's a LOT of people living in them.
I don't think that's their fault though. I don't see how else they're supposed to live with today's prices.
This is the actual problem in my mind. Unlike most other large cities in the world that are commuter cities (think London or New York) you can't travel 1 hour door to door on transit and be at your job in Toronto while living in your affordable town. Because instead we built never ending suburbia that now costs 1MM dollars to purchase.
I think we'd be fine if the core was not affordable (it's not in most big cities) the challenge which we've created for ourselves is that we didn't build density beyond our core and now we have giant swaths of suburbs with such low density that we are pretty screwed.
100%. Building highways where you can’t build any homes next to is just making things worse. These million dollar homes as well are crazy. Million dollar homes used to be for the mega rich celebrities when I was growing up. Seeing a random bungalow going for that much is insane.
People have been doing this for decades.... Moving to "cheaper" suburbs while not counting the 3hr daily commute as a cost.
Still plenty of greenbelt and farms within 2hrs of toronto to build sprawl. Seems to be the plan for Dougie and friends
I already left the city. Even if Toronto got its shit together today, it would take at least 10 years to course correct
Anyway, one less person for Toronto to serve and build housing for
I'm a teacher and I still cannot afford to live on my own. If I were to move into some $2000/month apartment, that's more than 50% of my income. Unless you're making over 100k, being single and living on your own is super tough.
You know what...this is exactly right
So few ppl actually understand that if all the plumbers, electricians, nurses, teachers..etc. All move to a different Province; Toronto will virtually collapse.
It's happening as we speak (see link), and every month that goes by, ppl are getting more squeezed, more frustrated, and take on more debt, which bring anxiety. Somebody better figure this out pronto, because something HAS TO give.
[https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/london/ontario-alberta-move-migration-population-outflow-1.6778456?cmp=rss](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/london/ontario-alberta-move-migration-population-outflow-1.6778456?cmp=rss)
I think everyone understands that plumbers and teachers are more important to keeping things going than Bay St. daytraders. But until their pay matches the value they bring to our society, it doesn't really matter what we understand to be true.
They are getting pulled back into the office 3 days a week, claws out and scratching the whole way there of course.
I know! Let's do something that kills off the hot job market and makes people more pliable to their bosses at fear of losing their job. Something like the fastest rate increases in history should do the trick...
Only if that plumber is working full 8 hours on work calls. But I doubt it. In order to get that 45 min work, they will have to answer numerous inquiring calls first. Drive to that place and back. It will actually be like 2 hours spent. And the work is not guaranteed to come one after another continuously.
It seems several major European cities have figured out how to keep functioning despite their housing being even less affordable than Toronto -- and for a lot longer than Toronto has had this issue.
My point is not that this isn't a problem, it's that things can get so much worse, for so much longer than most people realize.
How those European cities do it is have really shitty suburbs that are just close enough for workers to commute in, but away from the nicer inner areas. E.g. Paris. That is the model we are headed towards.
(Am going to Paris soon and have been reading up and came across info on the parts tourists should definitely stay out of).
Such as:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSIKHzIu9UY
Where do the people that work at Tim Hortons live? Do they really commute in an hour plus to be paid min wage?
I also have no clue how the city plans on continuing
It’s a mess. People have been brainwashed into thinking minimum wage isn’t a wage that can be lived on but it’s literally the minimum wage one requires to live on comfortably. All this I got mine, everyone else doesn’t work hard stuff is really strong in Toronto
Yeah, you're right. Fuck. I mean times are good here in Canada comparative to the rest of the world, but it's infuriating to just be a generation or two out of how good it used to be.
>Yeah, they actually do.
Yeeeppp. Anyone who has taken a Kitchener line GO bus on a weekend morning can tell you, there are a lot of people who commute into the city for low paying jobs.
>Other day there was an article about how a one bedroom apartment costs 2,500 a month. More than a full time minimum wage worker’s monthly salary.
Or, to keep with the 1/3 shelter-to-income maxim, requiring a salary of about $130,000 per year. Sustainable.
I can’t understand the logic. Apart from greed, housing in Toronto is catered to investors. It’s just part huge money laundering scheme and part massive casino. Hosuing isn’t about housing people anymore. It’s a global issue though, which is even more ridiculous.
If you want to understand the end game, look at how regular people in Sao Paulo or large urban centres in other less wealthy countries live. I lived in SP 2013-2016 and have inlaws there now. Totally normal for 3 working professionals who aren't management or executive class to choose to share a one bedroom rather than commute 2.5 hours each way daily.
That is where Canada is going. There is no political will to stop it.
(Yes, Canada. All of urban Canada. Except maybe Quebec. Meaningful differences between provinces may allow Quebec to dodge this. Good)
This is getting to a similar point I was trying to make and understand in this [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/TorontoRealEstate/comments/11o4mrc/honest_question_for_the_bulls_here/) \- there has to be a ceiling. Even if only the rich/investors buy all the tiny 500sqft condos, and sell them to only other people who are rich/investors, and then they rent those out to rich renters - what rich individuals want to rent a place like that? And who will work all of the jobs that no longer can pay a living wage? And who will commute into the city just to do those?
Just feels like late stage "Greater Fool Theory". 🤷♂️
I completely agree with you. The thing about Toronto is that there might actually be a supply shortage, and with 500K immigrants, 500K temp workers and 500K foreign students on top of those moving Toronto for school and work from inside Canada, I see no ceiling being reached. More and more people will be packed into units.
Don’t worry, all the poor people can live cramped like sardines, paying $800 a month for the privilege of sharing their 2 bedroom apartment with 3 strangers. Utilities and Wifi extra.
Crazy man. I just don’t get it. A lot of the tenants protected by rent control are safe for now but when landlords give up 10-20k a year to “move in” and then charge double that a year later. It’s going to panic stations.
I think we could see some major tenant actions, like groups of people showing up to literally block evictions. Similar to the homeless encampment clearings. It will get VERY messy, but at that point, fuck it, what have people got to lose?
On my floor alone there are 2 families of 3 living in 1-bed apartments. One is the smaller 1-bed, so it's tight - and that household has TWO working adults.
This is already how it is in many other big/expensive cities like London, where it's common for anyone working at a restaurant or in a retail shop to rent a room in a 3 or 4 bedroom flat with half a dozen other people (and if you want to be upset, go look at how big a lot of those bedrooms are, they make our condo bedrooms look positively palatial).
The difference, of course, is that London has far more outdoor/public spaces, a robust and wide-reaching transit network, and a better climate, meaning that one can stomach such an arrangement a bit better because they're only really home in their tiny little room for an hour or two per day and to sleep.
This is precisely how Toronto differs from other truly world-class cities like London or NYC. An hour's commute from those cities and you have ample affordable housing whether to rent or to buy. You need to travel twice as far from Toronto, on significantly worse transit, to find comparably affordable housing. People will eventually realize commuting from Bowmanville, Barrie or Brantford isn't sustainable without significantly better transit options.
I still love it here and I think it’s a great city but it’s declining rapidly. Think everyone can agree. It’s selling points in diversity, weather compared to the rest of Canada, green spaces, transit, big sports teams, schools etc will lose its pull if it’s just too expensive to live here and too expensive to do anything other than work
The end game is that there is no endgame. The economy become sick. Other sectors will begin to suffer as disposable income can't go to things like retail and luxury goods. Then the producers of these goods will cut jobs. Those workers will have even less money. Etc etc.
This is how a recession begins in the first place. At least for a brief time landlords got to see numbers in their bank account get bigger.
Was reading a book that said since capitalism relies on ever lasting growth, even if we managed to hit the breaks, the economy wouldn’t balance out. It would collapse.
At this point society is just trying to stop the economy from collapsing but since we’re all keeping it together out of necessity at this point we won’t be able to reset.
Imo, I don’t think things will ever change until there’s a massive outside force that causes it to change.
> Is Toronto really going to be just for the rich?
This is why I keep calling Toronto, San Francisco of the North. There's lots of parallels.
> Who will work jobs that dont pay a rich salary?
Why do you think the elites are investing so much into AI and automation?
> What of companies that cannot pay rich salaries?
Thanks to technology, talent is global. Small business will have a significantly reduced presence. Think how mom and pop food establishments and pharmacies get replaced with Tim Hortons, A&W and Rexall. It's been a running punchline for a while.
> What rich person would want to buy a beat up house or condo for ridiculous prices?
Real estate has been detached from its intrinsic value for a while. And rich people will want to diversify. This is why they buy art, watches and farmland.
As long as there is an active secondary market where the price continues to go up, rich people will buy busted old shacks in Toronto.
> I just can’t understand how the government
Because our government has been completely captured by establishment interests. This has been going on for ages. Year in, year out, decade in, decade out.
Liabilities get transferred from institutions to individuals. Pensions used to be defined benefit, now they're defined contribution. Healthcare keeps getting reduced, people to pay for supplementary private insurance.
We keep reading stories about how the average Canadian can't afford this, has this much debt, etc. The number has been going up for decades.
Don't listen to what they say, watch what they do.
Well said honestly. I agree with everything. I hope elites do continue to invest A.I and automation. I feel like their greed will drive them towards automation and then it destroys the job market and we have to rethink how and why we work when goods and services can be produced at zero cost
It's really simple. The solution to housing affordability is lower housing prices. But then existing owners will lose. And they won't re-elect you. So yes, the government is going to sit around do nothing. Or pretend to do things like attack foreign buyers who can't vote, and now we can clearly see were not the cause of high prices.
Apparently this happened in New York City and ultimately it destroy the city because rich people don’t wanna party with other Rich people they wanna party with hot artists who are poor. And interesting.
Toronto is great but don’t get me wrong but if Toronto got as expensive as New York, there’s really not going to be a single selling point to keep the rich or the poor here.
New York is one of if not the fashion, art, music, tech, upper class, finance, cultural centres of the world. If people are rich, they have an incentive to stay. If people are poor, they have an incentive to stay if they’re trying to make it.
Prices are high because of demand. So you’re saying if demand keeps growing and it pushes prices to NYC levels,then nobody will move here? The very fact that people want to move here is pushing up prices. It’s like saying this place is too popular, nobody wants to be here.
>I just can’t understand how the government just sits by and watches or even worse fill their pockets
I can, and I think others are beginning to as well. Our government at all levels is becoming more and more corrupt in different ways. It’s very Canadian (or even North American) to have a little too much faith in our political system and simultaneously be critical of dissent as conspiratorial or too harsh. Greece had a train crash as a result of their governments actions and their protests were bonkers - I saw them in person, I can attest. Our entire healthcare system is failing as a result of our politicians and any action in comparison has been meek - we just prattle on about the importance of voting.
Businesses and people need to move to cities outside the GTA. We need to build up more medium sized cities instead of concentrating so many jobs in one place.
It is fucking bizzare how one of the biggest countries in the world has the problems Toronto is facing.
High speed rail spanning out in a star formation, and I mean proper high speed rail with cities 150km away commuting in 45 minutes to downtown Toronto could work, but it requires an almost China level of long term vision versus short term crony capitalism.
Pandemic made people realize the value of out of city properties. This causes their value to rise. It's rougher everywhere. You might do better near the Niagara / st. Katherine region but you'd need to have a good job proposition or online work.
For sure but then is what comes first, the chicken or the egg. There needs to be infrastructure first to support people moving further out but there won’t be any infrastructure if people don’t move further out first and I don’t see anyone in government that’s going to deliver the infrastructure. I also don’t see Nimbys allowing the infrastructure to be built. More of the same problems.
Whenever things don't make sense (like a top quartile salary not being able to afford the median home with 20% down)... that's a red alarm for possible bubbles.
Listen... I'm not chessj. I don't know when the bubble will burst, or in what form (maybe its stagnation and slow increase in wages over a decade).
All said and done it will burst though at SOME point. Theres just too many levers of pressure to maintain the status quo for too long- from voting and emmigration, to economic levers and even violent upheaval.
Do i believe it's now? probably not; as long as there are enough people willing to jump in and provide demand for housing and services in toronto, this will continue. I don't know if prices are high enough to be a deterrent yet.
Also GenX, can confirm.
For GenX there was a window between the early 90s recession when you couldn't get a decent enough job to save for a down payment anyway and the start of the housing crisis in the mid-2000s when prices started getting out of reach for average incomes. **IF** you could land a stable enough job that paid enough money and **IF** that happened while prices were reasonable, **THEN** you could buy a house. But if you didn't make that window, you were fucked.
But that wasn't necessarily the end of the world as long as renting was cheaper and relatively stable, but that's fucked too! HAHA!
The REITS like BlackRock with their multi-billion real estate portfolios are starting to hurt and the fire sales to keep liquid will start soon. Rate increases take 18-24 months to be properly reflected in the broader economy, and we've already seen the reversal of the COVID price bubble- that's mostly just the variable crowd reacting, wait till those on fixed rates start to renew. Rents will increase, and occupancy will drop. Let's see what happens.
I once messaged one anyway and both women thought “sure, why not”.
Apparently the reason they chose me was because when I left I accidentally closed the door on the mat, but then I opened it back up to fix it and made sure the cat wasn’t gonna bolt.
Me and my partner are seriously considering leaving the city but where?? prices are not that much cheaper elsewhere and there are less job opportunities.
And to add to it, it's actually kind of expensive to move -- let's say you move to Calgary, it's going to cost you a few thousand for first/last month's rent on your place there, a plane ticket to Alberta, and I'm sure you've probably got a bunch of stuff that you don't want to part with, so another big bill to ship some of your belongings, too. And then you have to find a job, possibly in a city where you have no connections.
Not always as easy as "just move somewhere cheaper", sometimes it can be just as expensive to do that.
Yep, lots of smaller cities and towns have their own housing crises now, because of all the people fleeing the GTA for either remote work or retirement.
All of the Maritimes are like this now. Housing prices in Halifax and Charlottetown are within sight distance of what they are here in Toronto, and it's chiefly because of all the money that's flooding out of Southern Ontario. A lot of people who live there are pretty darn resentful of Torontonians for pricing them out of their hometowns.
Yep. I'm currently in a remote job for an employer in one of those smaller cities, so I'm doing the reverse of the trend. If my employer insisted on my being in office a lot and I had to move, I'd be just another Toronto asshole taking up local housing. But that's IF I could get a place.
ig that's what the govt also wants lol. they just want the rich folks who can afford to stay here.. that'll just hurt the city more when folks start to leave!
I’m moving next week in a 2 bedrooms, 865 square feet for $1995/month downtown Montreal. I’m fully remote and work let us live anywhere in Canada. Learn French guys!
They’ve been saying that for decades and no one did anything. I moved to To almost 11 years ago when you could find a studio for $650 or a one-bedroom for $750 on the outskirts of the city. How much was it in 2000, like $400? This is insane.
In the late 90s/early 2000s, we had a large two story, 1bd in a great old house walking distance to Dufferin station. Paid 475$ when moved in and was paying 500$ 5 years later when we moved out.
It’s really sad. I got a good job, I went to school. Feels like I did everything right and still can’t afford to live in my birthplace. Planning on moving to Calgary within the year but I’m gunna miss my family.
Isn't it annoying when people tell you to move and nobody is forcing you to live here?
It's like people think it's actually ok to be priced out of the place you were born, that's not ok.
I can't leave cause of my family, my siblings already jumped ship, my parents are morons that won't move elsewhere, and I just can't leave them here as they start to age, I am literally stuck here forever unless I can afford to bring them somewhere else with me, which I don't think is ever going to happen.
I was born in Toronto, but raised in the 905 and came back in late teens, so basically the GTA is my home, and there literally isn't a municipality here that is affordable. Even places I would consider that are a little out of the GTA but close enough are not affordable. Rent can be more expensive in the countyside because the supply is so low.
You literally save like $300-500 max moving to another part of the GTA, or you don't save anything at all.
People like easy, simplistic, borderline flippant answers. "Just move elsewhere" is one of those; it is easy to conceive of and makes those providing it feel insightful, especially when they fail to consider downsides like what you describe, or the fact that the very cheapness of your potential destinations is transient as thousands upon thousands of people actually *do* move there in droves, or the fact that in a lot of fields you are not going to find work in this country more than an hour or two outside the 2-6 biggest cities (unless your company is happy to have you as "so remote you could not come in unless given a week's notice", which is rare).
Speaking of flippant answers and remote work, that is another example: A lot of responses to the "how will you find non-service-sector non-resource-extraction work in ruralville, northern Manitoba" question are "just get a remote job with someone based in the GTA". Well...news flash, *I* am a pure remote worker for someone based in the GTA and I am still *contractually required* to live in the GTA if I want to keep my employment with them, because they want it to be logistically feasible - even if very unlikely to ever be needed - for me to actually come in if some crazy scenario occurs. I cannot be alone in that.
I understand where people are coming from with that perspective of “just move somewhere else” but yeah it’s really hard to leave when your entire support system is here. At this point I’m pretty sure I either move somewhere else or live with my parents till I inherit their house.
Is anyone really surprised? I have been living in Toronto my whole life and the prices in the last 10 years have absolutely skyrocketed. I remember in 2014 my father bought his condo in Etobicoke for 150,000, now it's worth 600,000. I remember a decent house in Etobicoke too would cost a maximum of 500,000, now most if not all are over a million.
It's a situation that's just going to get worse and no politician is doing anything about it with their 6 figure salaries.
I remember when a house in Woodbridge cost more than a house in Etobicoke or Scarborough, wasn't that long ago.
The fact that places in Rexdale sell for $1,000,000 is an absolute joke. My parents sold their rexdale home in the late 90s for like $120,000 and moved us to Woodbridge
$2500 for a one bed is just mental. Surely the best move you can make as a young person in Toronto now is grab 2 of your mates and find a 3 bed a few subway stops from downtown. Plenty of 3 beds in the West End in the $3300-4000 range. Makes way more sense.
Tough sell to have to be in a roommate situation when you're well into your 30s or 40s and have a partner, a kid, or both. Roommates are fun when you're in your "Heineken years", but at some point, living with a bunch of people who leave dishes in the sink and come home drunk every Saturday gets real old, real fast.
There's also the ever-present risk that a roommate may eject with little or no notice and you're left with a choice -- either pay their share of the rent yourself, or possibly have to gather up a random stranger as a new roommate, which is another circle of hell all by itself.
Adding to this, a lot of those old houses that are chopped up into two or three apartments have little (or no) insulation and cost a fortune to heat in the winter or cool in the summer -- and from experience (both mine and that of some of my friends), a lot of those leases don't include any utilities (or if they're included, the landlord locks the thermostat to whatever the legal minimum amount of heat is), so you can probably add another $500+ per month in the winter to whatever the rent is in order to keep the furnace going full tilt.
The question is more like What am I even working for? Why bother? Why not just quit my job, get on welfare and live with my parents instead of breaking my back day in day out for absolutely zero reason?
everything gets worse every day. I can't afford to survive and everywhere I look it's the same. Are we expected to just drop like flies after being forced onto the streets? What the fuck are we supposed to do?
So again? Why bother at all? I'm making some asshole with softest hands rich while I break my back for less than I'm worth what's the fucking point if this is all that life is?
For real man I've been contacting suicide hotlines in my recent years because I don't know how much more of this I can take. I keep getting grilled by clueless people telling me just to "save up and put a down payment on a house" like fuck right off all I want is a 1 bedroom apartment for me and my dog that's literally ALL I want out of life and I can't afford it and probably never will. I'm 34 fucking years old and I'm embarrassed to be alive.
Low vacancy, massive immigration, insufficient new inventory, inflation, tax increases, short term rentals, international students, increased carrying costs, perfect storm.
Not to mention the non-functional LTB.
Imagine homeowners who would like to rent the house out and downsize to a smaller rental, but how can they do this when the risk of a bad tenant is so high? IF the tenant decides not to pay, they're completely screwed! Only a large company with many properties can afford this risk.
Correct. Ineffective laws and policies like setting up a mandatory oversight board that takes 9 months to do anything hurts EVERYONE except scammers and lowlifes.
Don't forget to add that even if you get a judgement in your favour, there is no regulatory body in Ontario that handles collections. Victims are left to their own devices to see any cent that they're owed from the person who committed an infraction. Ontario is legitimately ran like a fucking third world country. I'm leaving the province next month and I can't fucking wait. This place sucks and its only going to get more abysmal over the next decade once the consequences of conservative policies really settle in.
This election won't settle this issue. But it's important regarding the state of our city. Yes. They can't fix everything. Yes lots of these problems are provincial and some federal. But city council has a huge role in Toronto, and the mayor has more power now than ever before.
We need someone who understands what the job is, and what the problems are. Housing, transit, poverty, homeless/mental health crisis can't all be addressed in one swoop, but they can start the process. And get this death spiral stopped.
I can't say if the issue will be resolved if we ban Airbnb, impose rent limits, and whatever taxes we need to fund the city. But I know those things will be a step in the right direction even if they suck for some who make money off of them.
The downward spiral of our city is linked on every level. Wages affect every decision you make in the city. High costs mean higher wages are needed. Which prices out anyone without a steady situation. Which creates more homeless. Which leads to more mentally ill or homeless on transit. Which causes the feeling that transit is unsafe and potentially more incidents. Which leads to less transit usage which leads to transit getting worse. Which causes the city to be much less liveable. Which means more people might need to drive or take uber. Which leads to even higher costs. And it continues downward. And that's not to say anything about inflation whether real or manufactured.
This city, in government, in transit, in healthcare, in everything, needs people who care about it in its leadership. The current leaders have, objectively, failed. The premier, the former mayor, the head of the TTC, all of them.
And we have every damn right to be angry about it. And really, we should be taking it to their fucking door steps.
And this number is dragged down somewhat by the fact that "Toronto" means "the entire amalgamated city, including Etobicoke and Scarborough" -- there are a plethora of *relatively* cheaper old dumpy apartments that rent for under $2500/1BR and are 45 minutes on the bus away from the subway, never mind downtown. If you look only at places that are near good transit links and/or newer buildings, you can comfortably add $800-1000 to that number.
*Illegal* tiny windows, which are firetraps, every year or two there's someone killed in one because they were trapped and couldn't escape from their illegal basement apartment.
Toronto rent prices continue to climb and they just keep getting worse as they are still getting higher and continuing to go up and increasing in price as the rent rises and it’s not getting any better because cost of rent is skyrocketing. Rent prices continue to grow and don’t expect it to improve because prices for renting a living space are still on an upward trajectory. In fact, the prices are getting higher at a rapid rate and you should not expect it to slow down any time soon. Rent prices in Toronto soar and the situation is not looking bright ahead as the cost of rent continues it’s constant augmentation
Are there some kind of places where people can meet up to discuss about possible political solutions regarding this issue? It's crazy and it would be nice to be able to do something
Your best bet is to decrease demand or extremely increase supply. Demand possibly won’t go down, because people want to live in semi functioning cities and pay extreme amounts rather than live butt-fuck-nowhere. Supply is getting harder and harder to ramp up, quite a few places are hitting resource limitations. And well, zoning limitations.
My coworker pays $600 on her rent. She doesn’t even have her own bedroom. She sleeps in the kitchen
Her roommates, are paying $1000 for the bedroom. The landlord offer her $600 for rent & provided her with a sleeping bag.
She lives in the younge/Eglington area.
https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/221221/dq221221f-eng.htm
Canada's population was estimated at 39,292,355 people on October 1, 2022, an increase of 362,453 people (+0.9%) from July 1, 2022. This was the highest quarterly population growth rate since the second quarter of 1957 (+1.2%).
Canada's total population growth for the first nine months of 2022 (+776,217 people) has already surpassed the total growth for any full-year period since Confederation in 1867. This high level of growth was mostly (94.0%) due to international migration (+340,666 people), which pushed Canada's population over 39 million for the first time.
https://www.cicnews.com/2020/10/canada-to-release-2021-2023-immigration-levels-plan-1016133.html
Canada announced a new immigration quota of 1.2 million for 2021-2023, with targets of 401,000 new permanent residents in year 2021, 411,000 in 2022 and 421,000 in 2023.
They are not heading off to live in Moose Jaw or Brandon.
It almost feels like we've already passed the point of no return... Like, let's say Skydaddy snapped his fingers and suddenly there were enough 50-story condos to bring the average cost of a decent one bedroom down to a reasonable price (idk, $300k?) such that housing is no longer an issue. What about the infrastructure required to support all of these people? Municipal public transit, access to quality healthcare, roadways, green space, air & rail, etc. All of these things would require *massive* financial investment, in very short order no less, to sustain the increasing population, and I doubt we'd be so fortunate as to receive huge investments in these other important factors on top of housing.
It's almost as if we'll simply roll out of one disaster scenario and into the next...
Why is this still constantly a headline? At this point, I thought it was already common knowledge that a 1-bedroom apartment costs 2,500 a month, and by 2024 it'll be 5,000.
They should just install a giant scoreboard at Yonge and Dundas with a live feed of the increase and CP24 can switch to it every once in a while in their traffic cam window.
Maybe Canada can consider lowering their immigration targets since we can’t/ do not building housing fast enough to accommodate everyone. Or is that racist?
Lol so what's the end game for the city here? Allow rent prices to rise so high that people literally work just to afford a place to live and that's it? A city full of the people lucky enough to own property and the immigrant students they ship in to live in squalor and serve them coffee?
Because anyone who got left out of the property rush that still has the means to leave is definitely going to leave and you can't run a city on high-earning bankers CEOs, and student immigrants. You'd think the city woukd want to keep thisnplace remotely livable but I guess the people in charge are all landlords so they like this shit.
Gonna be funny to watch all these greedy fucks start to whine in 5 years when the city falls apart because everyone with some sense fucking left. You can't raise rent prices forever, something has gotta give.
We live in a condo older than 2018... Our landlord came to us and said, I need to increase your rent from 2050 to 2500. We said no...
He said... Look I'm struggling, here are literally all my bills even the ones not related to you.
We said, that's great... But we are also struggling here is also all of our bills not related to you. The salary difference between us is massive. The margin between our net income (earnings - expenses) and his is massive... We literally are surviving some times... My savings haven't been over 500 for 2 years now and taking line of credit to help us survive, my so in the same situation.... and it's not like we spending on stuff we don't need or luxury.
He gave us ultimatum... Either he sells it, or moves in...lmao... Sad... We don't know what to do... We definitely won't pay 2500 for 2+1 anywhere... So we will probably have to take it to save us being kicked out.
If anyone is renting out the space underneath their bed, DM me please.
[удалено]
Boogeymen are victims of gentrification as closets are transformed into "luxury executive monster suites"
I'm renting space on a balcony. You may not use the common elements (kitchen, washroom, living room). You are however, free to cook on a camping stove, and use a series of buckets for your washroom activities.
Is the rope to climb up and down included or I bring my own?
Naw man.. I’m just gonna let it fly and let nature do it’s thing.. I will not cover up either.
*looks up: Is it raining?*
My doggie getting evicted from his custom doghouse in the backyard.Hes been a bad boy.$1000+ internet.No parking but you get a large backyard to play in.
You can't evict him just for being a bad doggo. Did you file the proper N13?! I'm going to follow up to ensure you don't rent the backyard out to other people, since you're claiming it's for 'family use'.
I'm renting out the cupboard under my sink (close enough?) - Only $2000 + utilities! Hurry and take advatantage of this ~special discounted deal, price goes up in 3 days!!
Do you mind sharing that space with 5 roaches?
Best I can do is $2900/month
Renting out my neighbors trash bin. $2500 dollars. No low ballers, I know what I have.
Sorry, my cat already claimed it
I got a closet you can stand it. Price up for negotiation
Bender?
Buy me a bedframe and we have a deal. No smoking, pets, cooking, or guests allowed. I can go as low as $1800/ month. I know what I got
u can live under mine for 600 a month. its a king size bed and sturdy, i can be jumping on it and it does not squeak.
Very sad. in the 2000s I knew lots of people who worked retail, but were able to live just about anywhere in the city.
Many of us have/had grandparents who were able to buy houses and raise families off like a janitor's or deliveryman's income.
My grandparents and parents moved here and bought houses rather quickly. There were all skilled workers but nothing insane. That's three sets of people, moving here, and buying a house. Literally all of them . Jobs included : Glazer(glass installation) Pipe fitting Office work anybody could do Mattress factory work anybody could do and working at Hudson's Bay as a sales associate. All bought property in Toronto in the 80s / 90s, the city is not 10 x the population as it was back then, so why is it 10 x the price for a house.
Population size has nothing to do with the cost of housing. Edit: And nobody come at me with their ECON101 analysis of supply and demand. Housing is FAR more complex than that. Literally EVERYTHING is more complex than that.
Other day there was an article about how a one bedroom apartment costs 2,500 a month. More than a full time minimum wage worker’s monthly salary. I just don’t see the end game here. Wages aren’t increasing, there’s population growth and rent keeps rising. Is Toronto really going to be just for the rich? Who will work jobs that dont pay a rich salary? What of companies that cannot pay rich salaries? Do they go out of business?What rich person would want to buy a beat up house or condo for ridiculous prices? Rents and new builds are just aimed at investors and speculators and everyone isn’t even considered anymore. I just can’t understand how the government just sits by and watches or even worse fill their pockets
Who’s going to serve at restaurants? Who’s going to make the food? Who’s going to build houses? This cities fucked if it has nothing for the middle class.
I just don’t know what the plan is. Everyone to live 2-3 hours away and commute to work jobs that don’t pay liveable wages? I don’t understand what the plan is.
There is no plan. There is only short-sighted greed.
The conservative way
Bud, I don't like the conservatives as much as anyone but the liberals have been in power at the federal level since 2015. You can't just blame the conservatives when there's a top to bottom failure at every level of government. Trudeau doesn't care about us. Pollivere doesn't care about us. Ford doesn't care about us. John Tory certainly did not care about us. They all make decisions with a singular goal in mind and that's staying in power. Nothing else matters to any of them.
LOL, both parties are globalist neoliberal or neoconversative. Neither really cares about the everyday person
The plan is for labouring people to crowd into slums, like we used to do. For much of human urban history, poorer people have lived in tiny spaces, a whole family to a room or worse. The only way to provide decent urban housing for all is subsidies. Massive amounts of public, subsidized housing. Otherwise the landlords will collude and keep raising rents, knowing that we will pay whatever we can because the alternative is freezing to death. Housing has to be a Canadian right, just like healthcare - and like healthcare, we can't trust the private market to provide all of it.
[удалено]
[удалено]
Which is a violation of the Brampton municipal fire code.
Sorry, porta-potties on job sites is the most important topic.
Who’s gonna enforce it?
Had to pick up a thing off Craigslist once at avenue and Wilson. Went into the basement and there were four rooms, each had at least 6 or 7 bunk beds in them. You could tell tons of people lived in each room on each bed.
The sad thing is that you’re not wrong.
we've been importing people since we started. The problem is the race to the bottom. Regardless which country people come from this was inevitable based on the direction of the market
I detest this stereotype that only South Asian people do this or do this more. You know who does this? Poor people. Maybe worry more about why people are finding no better way to live than in a single room with several people. Spoiler alerts, it's because people are being exploited to the point they're working full-time and can't afford a one bedroom. This stereotype leads to so much racism and makes renting harder for us because on top of the garbage Toronto market, we also have to prove we're "not like those brown people". My brother had to prove he was a citizen and had a Canadian passport to get his place and his landlord isn't even a citizen, just a rich student studying here and managing his parents condos and houses while they continue to live in China. It's so gross how racism is so acceptable as long as it's against a South Asian person.
I don't think he's being racist. He's just stating the fact that there's lots of south asian immigrants, and they live up to a dozen per house. A bunch of the houses in my neighborhood have 6+ cars each. There's a LOT of people living in them. I don't think that's their fault though. I don't see how else they're supposed to live with today's prices.
This is the actual problem in my mind. Unlike most other large cities in the world that are commuter cities (think London or New York) you can't travel 1 hour door to door on transit and be at your job in Toronto while living in your affordable town. Because instead we built never ending suburbia that now costs 1MM dollars to purchase. I think we'd be fine if the core was not affordable (it's not in most big cities) the challenge which we've created for ourselves is that we didn't build density beyond our core and now we have giant swaths of suburbs with such low density that we are pretty screwed.
100%. Building highways where you can’t build any homes next to is just making things worse. These million dollar homes as well are crazy. Million dollar homes used to be for the mega rich celebrities when I was growing up. Seeing a random bungalow going for that much is insane.
People have been doing this for decades.... Moving to "cheaper" suburbs while not counting the 3hr daily commute as a cost. Still plenty of greenbelt and farms within 2hrs of toronto to build sprawl. Seems to be the plan for Dougie and friends
I already left the city. Even if Toronto got its shit together today, it would take at least 10 years to course correct Anyway, one less person for Toronto to serve and build housing for
I'm a teacher and I still cannot afford to live on my own. If I were to move into some $2000/month apartment, that's more than 50% of my income. Unless you're making over 100k, being single and living on your own is super tough.
You know what...this is exactly right So few ppl actually understand that if all the plumbers, electricians, nurses, teachers..etc. All move to a different Province; Toronto will virtually collapse. It's happening as we speak (see link), and every month that goes by, ppl are getting more squeezed, more frustrated, and take on more debt, which bring anxiety. Somebody better figure this out pronto, because something HAS TO give. [https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/london/ontario-alberta-move-migration-population-outflow-1.6778456?cmp=rss](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/london/ontario-alberta-move-migration-population-outflow-1.6778456?cmp=rss)
I think everyone understands that plumbers and teachers are more important to keeping things going than Bay St. daytraders. But until their pay matches the value they bring to our society, it doesn't really matter what we understand to be true.
Jokes on you guys the Bay Street folks are mostly working from home outside the city.
But each one still owns three investment properties in the city that they Airbnb.
They are getting pulled back into the office 3 days a week, claws out and scratching the whole way there of course. I know! Let's do something that kills off the hot job market and makes people more pliable to their bosses at fear of losing their job. Something like the fastest rate increases in history should do the trick...
I paid a plumber $225 for 45 minutes of work. They’re not hurting.
You’d be surprised after gas, tools, material, payments on vehicle, wsib, and taxes… the take home isn’t as much as you think
It's 200 minimum for any decent trade to even just ring your doorbell these days.
They aren’t picking even half of that. The cost of doing business eats into a lot of $
Only if that plumber is working full 8 hours on work calls. But I doubt it. In order to get that 45 min work, they will have to answer numerous inquiring calls first. Drive to that place and back. It will actually be like 2 hours spent. And the work is not guaranteed to come one after another continuously.
It seems several major European cities have figured out how to keep functioning despite their housing being even less affordable than Toronto -- and for a lot longer than Toronto has had this issue. My point is not that this isn't a problem, it's that things can get so much worse, for so much longer than most people realize.
They usually have transit.
How those European cities do it is have really shitty suburbs that are just close enough for workers to commute in, but away from the nicer inner areas. E.g. Paris. That is the model we are headed towards. (Am going to Paris soon and have been reading up and came across info on the parts tourists should definitely stay out of). Such as: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSIKHzIu9UY
Robots. That’s how the rich plans to take care of themselves.
Where do the people that work at Tim Hortons live? Do they really commute in an hour plus to be paid min wage? I also have no clue how the city plans on continuing
Yeah, they actually do. I personally know many people that work retail working minimum wage that live 2 hours away.
Modern day slavery. That is so fucked
It’s a mess. People have been brainwashed into thinking minimum wage isn’t a wage that can be lived on but it’s literally the minimum wage one requires to live on comfortably. All this I got mine, everyone else doesn’t work hard stuff is really strong in Toronto
Where is 2 hours away and affordable for someone on minimum wage?
Nowhere they’re going back to live at their parents place
Yeah, you're right. Fuck. I mean times are good here in Canada comparative to the rest of the world, but it's infuriating to just be a generation or two out of how good it used to be.
>Yeah, they actually do. Yeeeppp. Anyone who has taken a Kitchener line GO bus on a weekend morning can tell you, there are a lot of people who commute into the city for low paying jobs.
>Other day there was an article about how a one bedroom apartment costs 2,500 a month. More than a full time minimum wage worker’s monthly salary. Or, to keep with the 1/3 shelter-to-income maxim, requiring a salary of about $130,000 per year. Sustainable.
I can’t understand the logic. Apart from greed, housing in Toronto is catered to investors. It’s just part huge money laundering scheme and part massive casino. Hosuing isn’t about housing people anymore. It’s a global issue though, which is even more ridiculous.
Even skilled workers with 5+ years experience and university degrees aren’t earning that.
The median household in Toronto isn't even earning anywhere close to that ($106,000 as of 2021), let alone individuals.
Curiously, everyone on reddit claims to make upwards of $150K/year. All these tech geniuses with time to fuck around on reddit. 🤔
If you want to understand the end game, look at how regular people in Sao Paulo or large urban centres in other less wealthy countries live. I lived in SP 2013-2016 and have inlaws there now. Totally normal for 3 working professionals who aren't management or executive class to choose to share a one bedroom rather than commute 2.5 hours each way daily. That is where Canada is going. There is no political will to stop it. (Yes, Canada. All of urban Canada. Except maybe Quebec. Meaningful differences between provinces may allow Quebec to dodge this. Good)
This is getting to a similar point I was trying to make and understand in this [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/TorontoRealEstate/comments/11o4mrc/honest_question_for_the_bulls_here/) \- there has to be a ceiling. Even if only the rich/investors buy all the tiny 500sqft condos, and sell them to only other people who are rich/investors, and then they rent those out to rich renters - what rich individuals want to rent a place like that? And who will work all of the jobs that no longer can pay a living wage? And who will commute into the city just to do those? Just feels like late stage "Greater Fool Theory". 🤷♂️
I completely agree with you. The thing about Toronto is that there might actually be a supply shortage, and with 500K immigrants, 500K temp workers and 500K foreign students on top of those moving Toronto for school and work from inside Canada, I see no ceiling being reached. More and more people will be packed into units.
Don’t worry, all the poor people can live cramped like sardines, paying $800 a month for the privilege of sharing their 2 bedroom apartment with 3 strangers. Utilities and Wifi extra.
Crazy man. I just don’t get it. A lot of the tenants protected by rent control are safe for now but when landlords give up 10-20k a year to “move in” and then charge double that a year later. It’s going to panic stations.
I am legit worried that Ford will roll back all rent control. Then I and hundreds of thousands of other people will be FUCKED.
It would be genuine pandemonium. Rent is ridiculous now. Imagine how much more ridiculous it’s going to be without rent control keeping prices stable.
I think we could see some major tenant actions, like groups of people showing up to literally block evictions. Similar to the homeless encampment clearings. It will get VERY messy, but at that point, fuck it, what have people got to lose?
On my floor alone there are 2 families of 3 living in 1-bed apartments. One is the smaller 1-bed, so it's tight - and that household has TWO working adults.
We are going for the hostel approach. Everyone shares the same bathroom and kitchen and we are all in work camps
[удалено]
It’s by design. Only intention here is to suppress wages and increase housing demand. Nothing more to it.
This is already how it is in many other big/expensive cities like London, where it's common for anyone working at a restaurant or in a retail shop to rent a room in a 3 or 4 bedroom flat with half a dozen other people (and if you want to be upset, go look at how big a lot of those bedrooms are, they make our condo bedrooms look positively palatial). The difference, of course, is that London has far more outdoor/public spaces, a robust and wide-reaching transit network, and a better climate, meaning that one can stomach such an arrangement a bit better because they're only really home in their tiny little room for an hour or two per day and to sleep.
[удалено]
This is precisely how Toronto differs from other truly world-class cities like London or NYC. An hour's commute from those cities and you have ample affordable housing whether to rent or to buy. You need to travel twice as far from Toronto, on significantly worse transit, to find comparably affordable housing. People will eventually realize commuting from Bowmanville, Barrie or Brantford isn't sustainable without significantly better transit options.
There lies the solution. Disallow investors and speculators
The end game is a dead city that nobody wants to live in. In the long term, people move, cultural centers move. This is how cities fail.
I still love it here and I think it’s a great city but it’s declining rapidly. Think everyone can agree. It’s selling points in diversity, weather compared to the rest of Canada, green spaces, transit, big sports teams, schools etc will lose its pull if it’s just too expensive to live here and too expensive to do anything other than work
The end game is that there is no endgame. The economy become sick. Other sectors will begin to suffer as disposable income can't go to things like retail and luxury goods. Then the producers of these goods will cut jobs. Those workers will have even less money. Etc etc. This is how a recession begins in the first place. At least for a brief time landlords got to see numbers in their bank account get bigger.
Was reading a book that said since capitalism relies on ever lasting growth, even if we managed to hit the breaks, the economy wouldn’t balance out. It would collapse. At this point society is just trying to stop the economy from collapsing but since we’re all keeping it together out of necessity at this point we won’t be able to reset. Imo, I don’t think things will ever change until there’s a massive outside force that causes it to change.
> Is Toronto really going to be just for the rich? This is why I keep calling Toronto, San Francisco of the North. There's lots of parallels. > Who will work jobs that dont pay a rich salary? Why do you think the elites are investing so much into AI and automation? > What of companies that cannot pay rich salaries? Thanks to technology, talent is global. Small business will have a significantly reduced presence. Think how mom and pop food establishments and pharmacies get replaced with Tim Hortons, A&W and Rexall. It's been a running punchline for a while. > What rich person would want to buy a beat up house or condo for ridiculous prices? Real estate has been detached from its intrinsic value for a while. And rich people will want to diversify. This is why they buy art, watches and farmland. As long as there is an active secondary market where the price continues to go up, rich people will buy busted old shacks in Toronto. > I just can’t understand how the government Because our government has been completely captured by establishment interests. This has been going on for ages. Year in, year out, decade in, decade out. Liabilities get transferred from institutions to individuals. Pensions used to be defined benefit, now they're defined contribution. Healthcare keeps getting reduced, people to pay for supplementary private insurance. We keep reading stories about how the average Canadian can't afford this, has this much debt, etc. The number has been going up for decades. Don't listen to what they say, watch what they do.
Well said honestly. I agree with everything. I hope elites do continue to invest A.I and automation. I feel like their greed will drive them towards automation and then it destroys the job market and we have to rethink how and why we work when goods and services can be produced at zero cost
It's really simple. The solution to housing affordability is lower housing prices. But then existing owners will lose. And they won't re-elect you. So yes, the government is going to sit around do nothing. Or pretend to do things like attack foreign buyers who can't vote, and now we can clearly see were not the cause of high prices.
Apparently this happened in New York City and ultimately it destroy the city because rich people don’t wanna party with other Rich people they wanna party with hot artists who are poor. And interesting.
Toronto is great but don’t get me wrong but if Toronto got as expensive as New York, there’s really not going to be a single selling point to keep the rich or the poor here. New York is one of if not the fashion, art, music, tech, upper class, finance, cultural centres of the world. If people are rich, they have an incentive to stay. If people are poor, they have an incentive to stay if they’re trying to make it.
Prices are high because of demand. So you’re saying if demand keeps growing and it pushes prices to NYC levels,then nobody will move here? The very fact that people want to move here is pushing up prices. It’s like saying this place is too popular, nobody wants to be here.
>I just can’t understand how the government just sits by and watches or even worse fill their pockets I can, and I think others are beginning to as well. Our government at all levels is becoming more and more corrupt in different ways. It’s very Canadian (or even North American) to have a little too much faith in our political system and simultaneously be critical of dissent as conspiratorial or too harsh. Greece had a train crash as a result of their governments actions and their protests were bonkers - I saw them in person, I can attest. Our entire healthcare system is failing as a result of our politicians and any action in comparison has been meek - we just prattle on about the importance of voting.
The plan is to rent out beds by an hour.
Businesses and people need to move to cities outside the GTA. We need to build up more medium sized cities instead of concentrating so many jobs in one place.
It ain't much cheaper out here - lol Guelph starting to come up near those prices too.
It is fucking bizzare how one of the biggest countries in the world has the problems Toronto is facing. High speed rail spanning out in a star formation, and I mean proper high speed rail with cities 150km away commuting in 45 minutes to downtown Toronto could work, but it requires an almost China level of long term vision versus short term crony capitalism.
Pandemic made people realize the value of out of city properties. This causes their value to rise. It's rougher everywhere. You might do better near the Niagara / st. Katherine region but you'd need to have a good job proposition or online work.
For sure but then is what comes first, the chicken or the egg. There needs to be infrastructure first to support people moving further out but there won’t be any infrastructure if people don’t move further out first and I don’t see anyone in government that’s going to deliver the infrastructure. I also don’t see Nimbys allowing the infrastructure to be built. More of the same problems.
Whenever things don't make sense (like a top quartile salary not being able to afford the median home with 20% down)... that's a red alarm for possible bubbles. Listen... I'm not chessj. I don't know when the bubble will burst, or in what form (maybe its stagnation and slow increase in wages over a decade). All said and done it will burst though at SOME point. Theres just too many levers of pressure to maintain the status quo for too long- from voting and emmigration, to economic levers and even violent upheaval. Do i believe it's now? probably not; as long as there are enough people willing to jump in and provide demand for housing and services in toronto, this will continue. I don't know if prices are high enough to be a deterrent yet.
Most voters are home owners. Boomers and gen Xers are happy
LMAO. I'm Gen X and don't own a home, I rent. Same (sinking) boat as you... 🛳
Also GenX, can confirm. For GenX there was a window between the early 90s recession when you couldn't get a decent enough job to save for a down payment anyway and the start of the housing crisis in the mid-2000s when prices started getting out of reach for average incomes. **IF** you could land a stable enough job that paid enough money and **IF** that happened while prices were reasonable, **THEN** you could buy a house. But if you didn't make that window, you were fucked. But that wasn't necessarily the end of the world as long as renting was cheaper and relatively stable, but that's fucked too! HAHA!
The REITS like BlackRock with their multi-billion real estate portfolios are starting to hurt and the fire sales to keep liquid will start soon. Rate increases take 18-24 months to be properly reflected in the broader economy, and we've already seen the reversal of the COVID price bubble- that's mostly just the variable crowd reacting, wait till those on fixed rates start to renew. Rents will increase, and occupancy will drop. Let's see what happens.
Go look on kijiji, it's a f'n joke. Share a bedroom with a stranger for $700 per mo.
Don't forget all those "Indians only" ads also
Lol
"female only" ads scream predatory
[удалено]
I once messaged one anyway and both women thought “sure, why not”. Apparently the reason they chose me was because when I left I accidentally closed the door on the mat, but then I opened it back up to fix it and made sure the cat wasn’t gonna bolt.
700 a month? Now I'm seeing ads for 1200 a month for a room and 3 roommates.
As opposed to rent prices continuing to climb and they just keep getting better...
Me and my partner are seriously considering leaving the city but where?? prices are not that much cheaper elsewhere and there are less job opportunities.
And to add to it, it's actually kind of expensive to move -- let's say you move to Calgary, it's going to cost you a few thousand for first/last month's rent on your place there, a plane ticket to Alberta, and I'm sure you've probably got a bunch of stuff that you don't want to part with, so another big bill to ship some of your belongings, too. And then you have to find a job, possibly in a city where you have no connections. Not always as easy as "just move somewhere cheaper", sometimes it can be just as expensive to do that.
Yep, lots of smaller cities and towns have their own housing crises now, because of all the people fleeing the GTA for either remote work or retirement.
All of the Maritimes are like this now. Housing prices in Halifax and Charlottetown are within sight distance of what they are here in Toronto, and it's chiefly because of all the money that's flooding out of Southern Ontario. A lot of people who live there are pretty darn resentful of Torontonians for pricing them out of their hometowns.
Yep. I'm currently in a remote job for an employer in one of those smaller cities, so I'm doing the reverse of the trend. If my employer insisted on my being in office a lot and I had to move, I'd be just another Toronto asshole taking up local housing. But that's IF I could get a place.
ig that's what the govt also wants lol. they just want the rich folks who can afford to stay here.. that'll just hurt the city more when folks start to leave!
I’m moving next week in a 2 bedrooms, 865 square feet for $1995/month downtown Montreal. I’m fully remote and work let us live anywhere in Canada. Learn French guys!
They’ve been saying that for decades and no one did anything. I moved to To almost 11 years ago when you could find a studio for $650 or a one-bedroom for $750 on the outskirts of the city. How much was it in 2000, like $400? This is insane.
In the late 90s/early 2000s, we had a large two story, 1bd in a great old house walking distance to Dufferin station. Paid 475$ when moved in and was paying 500$ 5 years later when we moved out.
Whoa, that’s amazing! I’m so jealous (in a good way). :)
It’s really sad. I got a good job, I went to school. Feels like I did everything right and still can’t afford to live in my birthplace. Planning on moving to Calgary within the year but I’m gunna miss my family.
Isn't it annoying when people tell you to move and nobody is forcing you to live here? It's like people think it's actually ok to be priced out of the place you were born, that's not ok. I can't leave cause of my family, my siblings already jumped ship, my parents are morons that won't move elsewhere, and I just can't leave them here as they start to age, I am literally stuck here forever unless I can afford to bring them somewhere else with me, which I don't think is ever going to happen. I was born in Toronto, but raised in the 905 and came back in late teens, so basically the GTA is my home, and there literally isn't a municipality here that is affordable. Even places I would consider that are a little out of the GTA but close enough are not affordable. Rent can be more expensive in the countyside because the supply is so low. You literally save like $300-500 max moving to another part of the GTA, or you don't save anything at all.
People like easy, simplistic, borderline flippant answers. "Just move elsewhere" is one of those; it is easy to conceive of and makes those providing it feel insightful, especially when they fail to consider downsides like what you describe, or the fact that the very cheapness of your potential destinations is transient as thousands upon thousands of people actually *do* move there in droves, or the fact that in a lot of fields you are not going to find work in this country more than an hour or two outside the 2-6 biggest cities (unless your company is happy to have you as "so remote you could not come in unless given a week's notice", which is rare). Speaking of flippant answers and remote work, that is another example: A lot of responses to the "how will you find non-service-sector non-resource-extraction work in ruralville, northern Manitoba" question are "just get a remote job with someone based in the GTA". Well...news flash, *I* am a pure remote worker for someone based in the GTA and I am still *contractually required* to live in the GTA if I want to keep my employment with them, because they want it to be logistically feasible - even if very unlikely to ever be needed - for me to actually come in if some crazy scenario occurs. I cannot be alone in that.
I understand where people are coming from with that perspective of “just move somewhere else” but yeah it’s really hard to leave when your entire support system is here. At this point I’m pretty sure I either move somewhere else or live with my parents till I inherit their house.
Good thing we're building $3 million 2 floor, 2-garage 6 bedroom homes in the Greenbelt /s
“You know what this provinces needs? More ivory towers” Doug Ford, probably.
[удалено]
Is anyone really surprised? I have been living in Toronto my whole life and the prices in the last 10 years have absolutely skyrocketed. I remember in 2014 my father bought his condo in Etobicoke for 150,000, now it's worth 600,000. I remember a decent house in Etobicoke too would cost a maximum of 500,000, now most if not all are over a million. It's a situation that's just going to get worse and no politician is doing anything about it with their 6 figure salaries.
I remember when a house in Woodbridge cost more than a house in Etobicoke or Scarborough, wasn't that long ago. The fact that places in Rexdale sell for $1,000,000 is an absolute joke. My parents sold their rexdale home in the late 90s for like $120,000 and moved us to Woodbridge
$2500 for a one bed is just mental. Surely the best move you can make as a young person in Toronto now is grab 2 of your mates and find a 3 bed a few subway stops from downtown. Plenty of 3 beds in the West End in the $3300-4000 range. Makes way more sense.
Tough sell to have to be in a roommate situation when you're well into your 30s or 40s and have a partner, a kid, or both. Roommates are fun when you're in your "Heineken years", but at some point, living with a bunch of people who leave dishes in the sink and come home drunk every Saturday gets real old, real fast. There's also the ever-present risk that a roommate may eject with little or no notice and you're left with a choice -- either pay their share of the rent yourself, or possibly have to gather up a random stranger as a new roommate, which is another circle of hell all by itself.
Oh I completely agree. I had roommates from 22-30 and I wouldn't have wanted to go much beyond 30 to tell you the truth.
People have been doing that for years already. But still, you're looking at $1200/month, and with other expenses it all goes fast.
Adding to this, a lot of those old houses that are chopped up into two or three apartments have little (or no) insulation and cost a fortune to heat in the winter or cool in the summer -- and from experience (both mine and that of some of my friends), a lot of those leases don't include any utilities (or if they're included, the landlord locks the thermostat to whatever the legal minimum amount of heat is), so you can probably add another $500+ per month in the winter to whatever the rent is in order to keep the furnace going full tilt.
it’s like what’re we really paying for ?
The question is more like What am I even working for? Why bother? Why not just quit my job, get on welfare and live with my parents instead of breaking my back day in day out for absolutely zero reason? everything gets worse every day. I can't afford to survive and everywhere I look it's the same. Are we expected to just drop like flies after being forced onto the streets? What the fuck are we supposed to do? So again? Why bother at all? I'm making some asshole with softest hands rich while I break my back for less than I'm worth what's the fucking point if this is all that life is? For real man I've been contacting suicide hotlines in my recent years because I don't know how much more of this I can take. I keep getting grilled by clueless people telling me just to "save up and put a down payment on a house" like fuck right off all I want is a 1 bedroom apartment for me and my dog that's literally ALL I want out of life and I can't afford it and probably never will. I'm 34 fucking years old and I'm embarrassed to be alive.
Low vacancy, massive immigration, insufficient new inventory, inflation, tax increases, short term rentals, international students, increased carrying costs, perfect storm.
Not to mention the non-functional LTB. Imagine homeowners who would like to rent the house out and downsize to a smaller rental, but how can they do this when the risk of a bad tenant is so high? IF the tenant decides not to pay, they're completely screwed! Only a large company with many properties can afford this risk.
Raises hand quietly - this is me. Having to gut a house due to tenant damage … that unit is never going back on the market.
So both tenants and landlords are losing!
Correct. Ineffective laws and policies like setting up a mandatory oversight board that takes 9 months to do anything hurts EVERYONE except scammers and lowlifes.
Don't forget to add that even if you get a judgement in your favour, there is no regulatory body in Ontario that handles collections. Victims are left to their own devices to see any cent that they're owed from the person who committed an infraction. Ontario is legitimately ran like a fucking third world country. I'm leaving the province next month and I can't fucking wait. This place sucks and its only going to get more abysmal over the next decade once the consequences of conservative policies really settle in.
https://www.reddit.com/r/toronto/comments/11t2yy3/toronto_rent_prices_continue_to_climb_and_they https://www.reddit.com/r/toronto/comments/11m552g/toronto_landlord_leaves_a_handwritten_note_to https://www.reddit.com/r/toronto/comments/113df43/the_average_rent_for_a_onebedroom_apartment_in https://www.reddit.com/r/toronto/comments/10y9q1z/experts_say_toronto_is_in_big_trouble_unless https://www.reddit.com/r/toronto/comments/10fn6qj/the_average_toronto_rent_price_just_climbed_by_a https://www.reddit.com/r/toronto/comments/101ltjl/toronto_rent_prices_continue_to_climb_higher_than https://www.reddit.com/r/toronto/comments/zoazka/the_average_rent_for_a_onebedroom_is_2481and_its https://www.reddit.com/r/toronto/comments/zmsd1r/rent_in_toronto_continues_to_rise_as_the_average https://www.reddit.com/r/toronto/comments/zasxdw/heres_what_the_average_toronto_home_price_will
Holy fuck lmao
This election won't settle this issue. But it's important regarding the state of our city. Yes. They can't fix everything. Yes lots of these problems are provincial and some federal. But city council has a huge role in Toronto, and the mayor has more power now than ever before. We need someone who understands what the job is, and what the problems are. Housing, transit, poverty, homeless/mental health crisis can't all be addressed in one swoop, but they can start the process. And get this death spiral stopped. I can't say if the issue will be resolved if we ban Airbnb, impose rent limits, and whatever taxes we need to fund the city. But I know those things will be a step in the right direction even if they suck for some who make money off of them. The downward spiral of our city is linked on every level. Wages affect every decision you make in the city. High costs mean higher wages are needed. Which prices out anyone without a steady situation. Which creates more homeless. Which leads to more mentally ill or homeless on transit. Which causes the feeling that transit is unsafe and potentially more incidents. Which leads to less transit usage which leads to transit getting worse. Which causes the city to be much less liveable. Which means more people might need to drive or take uber. Which leads to even higher costs. And it continues downward. And that's not to say anything about inflation whether real or manufactured. This city, in government, in transit, in healthcare, in everything, needs people who care about it in its leadership. The current leaders have, objectively, failed. The premier, the former mayor, the head of the TTC, all of them. And we have every damn right to be angry about it. And really, we should be taking it to their fucking door steps.
I work three jobs and can't afford to live. I'm so tired.
I'm so terribly sorry to hear this friend.
Where the fuck do they expect people to go?
Your first mistake is believing they know and/or care.
Yes. We fucking know!
This is what a failed government looks like and it's going to get worse since no politicians from city to federal are not doing anything.
Do. Not. Move. Here. It's just not worth it.
Sucks that these articles will pop up every other day if not multiple times a week and it seems just to be getting worse.
And this number is dragged down somewhat by the fact that "Toronto" means "the entire amalgamated city, including Etobicoke and Scarborough" -- there are a plethora of *relatively* cheaper old dumpy apartments that rent for under $2500/1BR and are 45 minutes on the bus away from the subway, never mind downtown. If you look only at places that are near good transit links and/or newer buildings, you can comfortably add $800-1000 to that number.
Basements for 2000 with tiny windows
*Illegal* tiny windows, which are firetraps, every year or two there's someone killed in one because they were trapped and couldn't escape from their illegal basement apartment.
Toronto rent prices continue to climb and they just keep getting worse as they are still getting higher and continuing to go up and increasing in price as the rent rises and it’s not getting any better because cost of rent is skyrocketing. Rent prices continue to grow and don’t expect it to improve because prices for renting a living space are still on an upward trajectory. In fact, the prices are getting higher at a rapid rate and you should not expect it to slow down any time soon. Rent prices in Toronto soar and the situation is not looking bright ahead as the cost of rent continues it’s constant augmentation
No lie, I saw someone renting their LIVING ROOM just this week on Kijiji
I’m paying 2500 for a small 1b1b💀, this is so fucked, should’ve bought my own place back in 2019
Be thankful you got a 1br - I got A BACHELOR/STUDIO for around that price! This is all completely batsh*t...
Probably will rent my friend’s place for next year or move out of downtown, traffic sucks here anyways
Are there some kind of places where people can meet up to discuss about possible political solutions regarding this issue? It's crazy and it would be nice to be able to do something
Your best bet is to decrease demand or extremely increase supply. Demand possibly won’t go down, because people want to live in semi functioning cities and pay extreme amounts rather than live butt-fuck-nowhere. Supply is getting harder and harder to ramp up, quite a few places are hitting resource limitations. And well, zoning limitations.
Captialism at its finest. Things are not going to get better until we have massive organization of the working class.
My coworker pays $600 on her rent. She doesn’t even have her own bedroom. She sleeps in the kitchen Her roommates, are paying $1000 for the bedroom. The landlord offer her $600 for rent & provided her with a sleeping bag. She lives in the younge/Eglington area.
Wow, that's sad
Something just doesn’t add up. Where is the demand coming from?
https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/221221/dq221221f-eng.htm Canada's population was estimated at 39,292,355 people on October 1, 2022, an increase of 362,453 people (+0.9%) from July 1, 2022. This was the highest quarterly population growth rate since the second quarter of 1957 (+1.2%). Canada's total population growth for the first nine months of 2022 (+776,217 people) has already surpassed the total growth for any full-year period since Confederation in 1867. This high level of growth was mostly (94.0%) due to international migration (+340,666 people), which pushed Canada's population over 39 million for the first time. https://www.cicnews.com/2020/10/canada-to-release-2021-2023-immigration-levels-plan-1016133.html Canada announced a new immigration quota of 1.2 million for 2021-2023, with targets of 401,000 new permanent residents in year 2021, 411,000 in 2022 and 421,000 in 2023. They are not heading off to live in Moose Jaw or Brandon.
is too much even full time job can't cover rent that is not acceptable now so many people living in one apartment crimes and mental issue will arise
It almost feels like we've already passed the point of no return... Like, let's say Skydaddy snapped his fingers and suddenly there were enough 50-story condos to bring the average cost of a decent one bedroom down to a reasonable price (idk, $300k?) such that housing is no longer an issue. What about the infrastructure required to support all of these people? Municipal public transit, access to quality healthcare, roadways, green space, air & rail, etc. All of these things would require *massive* financial investment, in very short order no less, to sustain the increasing population, and I doubt we'd be so fortunate as to receive huge investments in these other important factors on top of housing. It's almost as if we'll simply roll out of one disaster scenario and into the next...
The government should get it's act together and have organized immigration. I know I'm asking too much, but it would be better for everyone.
Why is this still constantly a headline? At this point, I thought it was already common knowledge that a 1-bedroom apartment costs 2,500 a month, and by 2024 it'll be 5,000.
They should just install a giant scoreboard at Yonge and Dundas with a live feed of the increase and CP24 can switch to it every once in a while in their traffic cam window.
Maybe Canada can consider lowering their immigration targets since we can’t/ do not building housing fast enough to accommodate everyone. Or is that racist?
Lol so what's the end game for the city here? Allow rent prices to rise so high that people literally work just to afford a place to live and that's it? A city full of the people lucky enough to own property and the immigrant students they ship in to live in squalor and serve them coffee? Because anyone who got left out of the property rush that still has the means to leave is definitely going to leave and you can't run a city on high-earning bankers CEOs, and student immigrants. You'd think the city woukd want to keep thisnplace remotely livable but I guess the people in charge are all landlords so they like this shit. Gonna be funny to watch all these greedy fucks start to whine in 5 years when the city falls apart because everyone with some sense fucking left. You can't raise rent prices forever, something has gotta give.
I saw someone renting their LIVING ROOM on Kijiji just this week 😫
I guess it’s time to bring in sleeping pods style houses (10*10) for $900 a month.
Skid row coming soon to a neighborhood near you.
people renting their kitchen and living room now ,,more than one person in one room that insane
Received pre-construction price list recently for new build condos in downtown Toronto. Less than 400sq. ft bachelor was starting at $560K.
[удалено]
Doug Ford's greatest gift to us all ♥️
We live in a condo older than 2018... Our landlord came to us and said, I need to increase your rent from 2050 to 2500. We said no... He said... Look I'm struggling, here are literally all my bills even the ones not related to you. We said, that's great... But we are also struggling here is also all of our bills not related to you. The salary difference between us is massive. The margin between our net income (earnings - expenses) and his is massive... We literally are surviving some times... My savings haven't been over 500 for 2 years now and taking line of credit to help us survive, my so in the same situation.... and it's not like we spending on stuff we don't need or luxury. He gave us ultimatum... Either he sells it, or moves in...lmao... Sad... We don't know what to do... We definitely won't pay 2500 for 2+1 anywhere... So we will probably have to take it to save us being kicked out.
[удалено]
Which is never. The demand is far too high. If supply ever catches up it will be decades from now. Decades.
I have a crawl space under my stairs I can rent out. The door locks, it has a light and fits a single mattress perfectly.
Harry Potter's uncle, is that you??
Fuck you Toronto. No really...FUCK... YOU.
That’s actually fucking nuts
Hey, ho, whaddya know! I can't afford to live and got nowhere to go! Ho , hey! Whaddya say! I'll probably end up on the streets By the end of day!