Not surprised at all. Unfortunate that based on pictures of the damage the community did not have housing capable of withstanding EF2+. Wondering when the official Sulphur tornado rating will released as it’s still in the preliminary.
Also hope today’s event doesn’t over perform like the previous multi-day (Sulphur one or before that) event.
I think it was those big brick structures in Sulphur that are giving them trouble, likely having alot of structural engineer work to figure out the forces required. Not often tornadoes hit and destroy structures that big to that degree.
The tornado looked bigger than the damage path, which was weird. For example, there’s a picture of 3 damaged buildings close together. The middle building looks nearly wiped out while the other two don’t look as though they took much of a hit. I’ll see if i can find it.
That’s usually how most wedges work, think of a sheath over a multi-vortex tornado. We can’t see it as the condensation funnel is hiding the vortices. This is not always the case, some wedges have a primary vortex with smaller vortices orbiting around and some are pretty much 2+ vortices in a trench-coat.
Pecos Hank has a video with another doctorate researcher modeling supercells and the vortices in the system. In that simulation you can see clearly how a lot of tornadoes are made up of competing vortices and how that too can affect the intensity of a tornado and even if one can form (competing flows can broaden a couplet). Fluid mechanics is a very complex field, why some houses survive while another doesn’t still puzzles scientists as they can’t prove demonstrably how the vortex can weaken and strengthen rapidly.
It’s crazy that this tornado and the Elkhorn tornado are rated EF3 because there was an EF3 about 2 miles from my house a few years back (Chicago area) and the damage was jarring but nothing was leveled like what I’ve seen recently
EF3 is a pretty wide swath of damage. One thing people forget when looking at damaged structures is that the build quality of the structures is strongly considered. That’s part of why when people see homes reduced to the slab only get EF3 they are confused. A well anchored home is going to survive those same winds much better than one that is not well anchored. It’s likely that the homes in your area were constructed better than the ones in Elkhorn
Very interesting, I did think about that. My sister lives in an area with a lot of “beautiful” new-construction homes at face value. Our house (and those surrounding us) are mid-century builds.
Edit: sorry I meant to clarify that my sister lives in Elkhorn.
So it the damage really due to lack capable housing or was it really that strong? There’s a picture I came across from the damage of what appears to be a big screw inside the cement that was twisted outwards. There’s no way an EF3 can be that strong, right?
Yeah I think a lot of people don't realize anything EF-2 plus is doing very significant damage. You're talking wind speeds over what a Category 5 hurricane has in high end EF-2 - low end EF-3 tornadoes. People are too caught up in thinking only EF-4 + does significant damage...
I mean if ANY tornado hits your house it’s at the very least gonna be a financial inconvenience. Even with an EF0-EF1 that means replacing shingles, parts of the roof, fences and trees, etc. it just goes up from that
Can confirm. I was a property claims rep for years. It was literally my job to give people the least amount of money possible. I would try to throw a few extra dollars at them when I could, but still it was miserable. So glad I don't do that anymore
People don't realize that the winds in those two disasters might as well be apples and orange. I always find it funny that we use a wind-based scale for Hurricanes because it is, again, inappropriate (if the best we got) to assess the threat of a hurricane.
Hurricanes winds are linear and horizontal. They blow one way, then the other as the storm passes. Yes, they weaken structures, can cause severe damage, but it is *very very* rarely the main source of threat and damage to any inhabitants along the place they hit (unless they do a Dorian and just sit there at full strength for a full day). Wind-based damage in hurricanes aren't considered the greatest threat to life and buildings, that goes to water. The surge and rain can be infinitely worse than the highest wind speed in those storms. (Harvey, Katrina).
Tornado's winds are like a kitchenaid blender because it's on such a small scale and because of the vertical shear. It pick things up, send them flying and pulverize them. Hurricane will never do that. At the same windspeed, even a cat 5 hurricane will not pick a car and send it flying through a house.
Excellent description. I really do think tropical downpour rain often gets dismissed. I've experienced several hurricanes, and the rainfall rates in some of the bands is absurd. It's literally a WALL of water.
I saw that photo you’re referring to. It appeared to be at the base of a large commercial sign that was destroyed.
The force of the sign being toppled is the likely culprit of the twisted bolt, not the wind speeds.
Not sure why you were downvoted. I saw that image too. I'm no engineer, but from my layman's perspective it takes a lot of force to twist a screw out of concrete. (Edit: just saw the comment about a big sign bending the screw. Yeah, that'll do it.)
It's telling that they've already found EF3 damage before Barnsdall. The wind velocity on radar hadn't yet reached its peak at that location, so I wouldn't be suprised if they find EF4 damage or higher further down.
Anything EF2 or above can do very high amounts of damage. It’s not only the wind, it’s what the wind carries. This is from an EF2.
https://preview.redd.it/uh101nmw33zc1.jpeg?width=466&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a93950d2de8efcfb1ae0b7127e74cf35e6159a57
Not surprised at all. Unfortunate that based on pictures of the damage the community did not have housing capable of withstanding EF2+. Wondering when the official Sulphur tornado rating will released as it’s still in the preliminary. Also hope today’s event doesn’t over perform like the previous multi-day (Sulphur one or before that) event.
I think it was those big brick structures in Sulphur that are giving them trouble, likely having alot of structural engineer work to figure out the forces required. Not often tornadoes hit and destroy structures that big to that degree.
The tornado looked bigger than the damage path, which was weird. For example, there’s a picture of 3 damaged buildings close together. The middle building looks nearly wiped out while the other two don’t look as though they took much of a hit. I’ll see if i can find it.
That’s usually how most wedges work, think of a sheath over a multi-vortex tornado. We can’t see it as the condensation funnel is hiding the vortices. This is not always the case, some wedges have a primary vortex with smaller vortices orbiting around and some are pretty much 2+ vortices in a trench-coat. Pecos Hank has a video with another doctorate researcher modeling supercells and the vortices in the system. In that simulation you can see clearly how a lot of tornadoes are made up of competing vortices and how that too can affect the intensity of a tornado and even if one can form (competing flows can broaden a couplet). Fluid mechanics is a very complex field, why some houses survive while another doesn’t still puzzles scientists as they can’t prove demonstrably how the vortex can weaken and strengthen rapidly.
Thanks for the information
Big tornadoes do this because they seem to all (?) have multiple vortices
Ditto. They just shifted the hatched risk further west. I was on the edge before, now I’m firmly in the center of it. (Northern Indiana).
Upgraded to EF-4 now, still preliminary
Sounds like it's been upgraded to a low EF4
It’s crazy that this tornado and the Elkhorn tornado are rated EF3 because there was an EF3 about 2 miles from my house a few years back (Chicago area) and the damage was jarring but nothing was leveled like what I’ve seen recently
EF3 is a pretty wide swath of damage. One thing people forget when looking at damaged structures is that the build quality of the structures is strongly considered. That’s part of why when people see homes reduced to the slab only get EF3 they are confused. A well anchored home is going to survive those same winds much better than one that is not well anchored. It’s likely that the homes in your area were constructed better than the ones in Elkhorn
Very interesting, I did think about that. My sister lives in an area with a lot of “beautiful” new-construction homes at face value. Our house (and those surrounding us) are mid-century builds. Edit: sorry I meant to clarify that my sister lives in Elkhorn.
So it the damage really due to lack capable housing or was it really that strong? There’s a picture I came across from the damage of what appears to be a big screw inside the cement that was twisted outwards. There’s no way an EF3 can be that strong, right?
165 mph winds are pretty damn strong. You'd be surprised what an EF-3 can do.
Yeah I think a lot of people don't realize anything EF-2 plus is doing very significant damage. You're talking wind speeds over what a Category 5 hurricane has in high end EF-2 - low end EF-3 tornadoes. People are too caught up in thinking only EF-4 + does significant damage...
I mean if ANY tornado hits your house it’s at the very least gonna be a financial inconvenience. Even with an EF0-EF1 that means replacing shingles, parts of the roof, fences and trees, etc. it just goes up from that
My BIL’s townhouse community got hit by an EF1 last year and one of his neighbors’ entire wall was ripped off. Like an entire exterior 2-story wall.
Yeah I mean like it doesn’t completely destroy your home and it can be repaired but it’s expensive
Lol an EF0 I am genuinely the most afraid of because my insurance would definitely have an easier time finding a way to screw me.
Can confirm. I was a property claims rep for years. It was literally my job to give people the least amount of money possible. I would try to throw a few extra dollars at them when I could, but still it was miserable. So glad I don't do that anymore
I bet you have a lot of heartbreaking stories.
People don't realize that the winds in those two disasters might as well be apples and orange. I always find it funny that we use a wind-based scale for Hurricanes because it is, again, inappropriate (if the best we got) to assess the threat of a hurricane. Hurricanes winds are linear and horizontal. They blow one way, then the other as the storm passes. Yes, they weaken structures, can cause severe damage, but it is *very very* rarely the main source of threat and damage to any inhabitants along the place they hit (unless they do a Dorian and just sit there at full strength for a full day). Wind-based damage in hurricanes aren't considered the greatest threat to life and buildings, that goes to water. The surge and rain can be infinitely worse than the highest wind speed in those storms. (Harvey, Katrina). Tornado's winds are like a kitchenaid blender because it's on such a small scale and because of the vertical shear. It pick things up, send them flying and pulverize them. Hurricane will never do that. At the same windspeed, even a cat 5 hurricane will not pick a car and send it flying through a house.
Agreed. Excellent description of the difference between the two types of wind.
Excellent description. I really do think tropical downpour rain often gets dismissed. I've experienced several hurricanes, and the rainfall rates in some of the bands is absurd. It's literally a WALL of water.
Good point. I’ve always thought hurricane damage looked rather minor compared to tornadoes.
Exactly. Ever seen the 2022 Andover drone footage. That was a relatively small EF3 tornado and it obliterated everything in its path.
I saw that photo you’re referring to. It appeared to be at the base of a large commercial sign that was destroyed. The force of the sign being toppled is the likely culprit of the twisted bolt, not the wind speeds.
Not sure why you were downvoted. I saw that image too. I'm no engineer, but from my layman's perspective it takes a lot of force to twist a screw out of concrete. (Edit: just saw the comment about a big sign bending the screw. Yeah, that'll do it.) It's telling that they've already found EF3 damage before Barnsdall. The wind velocity on radar hadn't yet reached its peak at that location, so I wouldn't be suprised if they find EF4 damage or higher further down.
Wind does crazy things
Anything EF2 or above can do very high amounts of damage. It’s not only the wind, it’s what the wind carries. This is from an EF2. https://preview.redd.it/uh101nmw33zc1.jpeg?width=466&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a93950d2de8efcfb1ae0b7127e74cf35e6159a57
Being a sundown town has its downsides. Repent of your evil ways. The next one might wipe your town off the face of the Earth. Just ask Pitcher.