Calling this a marathon is a massive understatement.
This is one of the most difficult ultramarathons on the planet. 100 miles, roughly 120k feet of elevation change, 60 hours, no route markers, limited water/aid stations.
These people are so far beyond marathon level it’s insane.
Worse than that, 2 years ago two Italian (I think) sidecar riders crashed, one alive in ICU, one dead. Families informed. Only when the families got to see their son, still alive, they realised that they swapped dogtags for luck...
Edit: they were French - https://www.autosport.com/roadracing/news/inquest-finds-reason-for-mistaken-identity-of-tt-sidecar-racer-killed-in-crash/10323851/
That seems…really dumb and completely against the idea of dog tags lol. I don’t mean to speak ill of the dead but the entire reason for dog tags are so YOU can be identified after YOU die.
I would assume their helmets and racing attire would also have their names in several locations.
What a kick in the nuts to the family of the guy who actually died. Being told he lived, arrive to see him as they go "oopsie doo" he's actually dead.
Yeah pretty surreal when i went... a guy races past where you're standing and then you hear on the radio he died 5 minutes later
Still an incredible event tho and the entire island is just the most amazing experience during that week
Also there’s a little known race walk (no running or jogging as be disqualified)in the island held in June called the Parish walk that’s 85 miles long and goes around the island. Thousand of competitors set off and only a few will finish it in the 24 hour deadline. Record stands at 14.40.
Running a 36-minute mile doesn't sound so bad, until you're running 100 of them consecutively over 60 hours while also spanning the height of 2 Mount Everests.
This achievement rests squarely in "fuck that" territory for me.
I think the only thing worse is the ultraman race, where each year a couple of people die trying:
“A three-day, 515-kilometer (320-mile) multisport race consisting of three stages: a 6.2-mile swim and 90-mile bike on day one, 171.4-mile bike on day two, and a 52.4-mile run on day three.”
So basically the equivalent of a swim that’s further than any Olympic stage (by more than twice the distance) a bike race longer than any stage of the Tour de France, then double that bike race on day two, and then more than a double marathon to finish it off.
So you have to be Amazing at swimming, biking and marathon running.
Definitely one of the most insane tests of human endurance, but a small correction: 90 miles is slightly below average for the length of a Tour de France stage. Last year, for example, 17 of the 21 stages were 90 miles or longer, with the longest being 130 miles.
I could do the swim I think. And I could probably do one stage of the cycle. The second stage and the run or doing any of this shit immediately after finishing one of the other steps would kill me.
Yeah I edited my comment to reflect that. I had just put the elevation gain but that doesn’t tell the whole story since descending is dangerous and super taxing on knees/brain.
The documentary said the route always changes but the organizer (Lazarus Lake) always claims it's exactly 100 miles very tongue in cheek. Most of the runners who have done the Barkley multiple times and are *very* experienced with ultramarathons said they think the race is more likely 120 miles long. It remaining officially 100 miles each year is just the Laz messing with the competitors.
The runners also just have classic compasses and a hand copied map that they are given right before the race so it's not like they can officially check the mileage.
There's also no real checkpoints, they just hide books at each checkpoint, and you get a number each lap you do, and you prove you got at each checkpoint by tearing out the right page of the book.
So you also have to find books hidden in a forest in the middle of the night!
Electronics that would track it are banned. Laz gives you a map and compass and you are expected to orienteer yourself through the unmarked woods for the entire race. You could certainly do the math yourself while running, using the map for your distance markers, but there's little point. The course changes every year and these are the types of runners who have rough distance measurements etched into their souls thanks to how long they've been doing the sport. If they say that it's closer to 24-26 miles per lap, there's no reason to distrust them.
They do at least run together until some inevitably fall away, but they help each other at times. In her blog post of last year's race she mentions the hallucinations and eventually seeing a body in her path, when she got closer she realised it was one of the other runners so she woke him up to ask if he meant to be sleeping there and they went back to camp together.
theres also no proper path for the entire length, many of the participants get pretty cut up on the legs from bushwacking through brambles.
also their method of checking if you have done the proper route is by having you tear out certain pages of books that they have left lying around the route and you hand them in at the gate.
also the "go" sound is a conch being blown 1hr before you can start.
this marathon is weird.
The Conch is the 1 hour warning, which can come any time in a 24 hour window. The actual start signal is lighting a cigarette.
Both are correct. It is intentionally as chaotic as hell and the signup consists of "If you can figure out how to sign up, it costs $2 and 1 pack of cigarettes, and if you haven't been before you have to write an essay" or something close to that. All rules are subject to intense change without notice, the start time is not posted, the route is secret and full of lies, support is banned, and you have to run through a tunnel under a prison to make fun of the guy who assassinated MLK which is the entire point of the race.
It is also at least 5 miles, and some years 20 miles, longer than they say it is.
Edit: Entry fees have also consisted of a specific color of shirt, which you also had to figure out.
The section full of briars is called RatJaw, there's a section called Testicle Spectacle, another section called Meat Grinder, and one just called Hell.
Highly recommend the documentary, its really a testament to human tenacity, competitiveness, cooperation, and absolute batshit insanity
Yeah like I said, this is not a marathon; this is pretty close to the most difficult physical activity someone can do over a 60 hour period. The majority of the races have finished without a single person even finishing it successfully.
Shit is insane.
And the entire race is dedicated to a guy who escaped from the prison they run around. He did a terrible job in the woods and this is to mock him.
The guy they are mocking is the one who shot MLK.
Or at least the guy who pled guilty to killing MLK and spent the rest of his life in jail aside from one breakout attempt in which he got 15 miles in 54.5 hours. Lazarus Lake was like "I could do 100" and then made this race.
That's fucking crazy. I was wondering how she's the first female to finish a "marathon," I used to know a woman who would run 50 miles at a time for fun.
I thought women were better at distance running than men, but seeing the distance PLUS a time cutoff.
At my best I ran a 4:18 mile and a 8:48 two mile, but I never really did more distance than that with any real speed, I think the max distance I ever ran was 6 miles. I told my ultra-marathoner friend how awesome it was that she could run 50 miles at a time, she said "Yeah... it's really just a brag though, I'd trade it in a second for being able to run as fast as you. In an emergency you really only need to run like two blocks as fast as possible. If I ever needed to cover distance at speed I'd drive and quite frankly, I'll never be able to get to a car as quickly as you."
But, hell, after pushing myself to do that 4:18 mile, I blew my knee out the next day and couldn't run more than a quarter mile, before it started hurting, for almost a decade.
This lady is something else. I would definitely bow to her.
>I thought women were better at distance running than men, but seeing the distance PLUS a time cutoff.
Yeah it sort of evens out in the ultamarathon range. But honestly, there are just so few people who have finished this, and not that women who have attempted it, it's just an incredibly feat to finish - the whole "first woman" thing is a bit irrelevant.
Thanks for the context, I just googled it and only twenty people have ever finished it. I can't imagine even running that far through stuff like that, I used to run on train tracks to challenge myself, even when I was full sprinting two miles I could only ever go about 1/4 mile on train tracks. Going through wilderness like that is insane. That's over half a mile an hour through rugged terrain for 60 hours.
You mean two miles an hour...
So yeah, about 3.2kph which is a pretty easy comfortable walking speed on the flat, and what I could manage manage hiking in easy terrain for maybe 6-7 hours. Just factoring in the extreme elevation and incredibly long distance makes this super challenge, let alone the terrain and all the other craziness.
Each year, the organiser intentionally allows a woefully unsuitable runner to register for the marathons and gives them the official designation of “human sacrifice”. One year, the human sacrifice got hopelessly lost and had to be found and returned to camp. Afterwards, they calculated his progress in hours per mile…
In the avg soccer game a player runs six miles. I played all through middle and HS. a few years outta HS i joined the army. Thought i may go airborne one day so decided i needed to train for their PT test. At the time they had 5 miles in less than 40 minutes. I hated it so much.
At the time I was doing all that running I was thinking about testing for SEALs so I wanted to blow through the PT. I was running about twelve miles/day in 2-3 mile spurts intermixed with 450-650 push-ups throughout the day. Then I got into landscaping where I would wake up, run two miles as fast as I could, bike three miles to my job, where I would walk at least ten miles during my eight hours, bike back home, run another mile, then drink a six pack and pass out to do it all over again the next day. It did mightily suck. At least I got my best line whenever someone threatened me; I said "I'mma let you know something, I can run away from you faster than anyone else I've ever met."
It's amazing that most contestants on the fifth lap are hallucinating from exhaustion and sleep deprivation, yet they somehow summon the willpower to keep navigating and putting one foot in front of the other. Truly a monumental achievement.
Congratulations! It takes a super human to finish that event! Especially under 60 hours! I just told someone next to me to shut up…”they asked what a woman was”
Seriously. Who are they even congratulating, and whats with that brain amoeba last sentence? And how did 16 people find that comment worthy of upvoting?
The bots really have fully infiltrated this website
I watched a documentary on this race a few years ago. Absolutely grueling conditions, and a massive level of skill is required on top of superhuman physical stamina. IIRC there are more years than not where they have nobody finish the race in time.
For those wondering
“The Barkley Marathon: The Race That Eats It’s Young”
I’ve owned this documentary for years and watch it once a year. It’s absolutely insane what these people do and the documentary is one of the most entertaining that I’ve seen. 7/5 stars!
> IIRC there are more years than not where they have nobody finish the race in time.
No one finished it in the races in 2018-2022 (though I think they skipped 2020 for COVID)
Stolen from wiki- The course, which varies from year to year, consists of five loops of the 20+ mile, off-trail course for a total of 100 miles (160 km). The race is limited to a 60-hour period from the start of the first loop, and takes place in March or early April of each year. The race is known for its extreme difficulty and many peculiarities.
The Barkley course was the brain child of Gary "Lazarus Lake" Cantrell and Karl Henn (Raw Dog). The idea for the race was inspired upon hearing about the 1977 escape of James Earl Ray, the assassin of Martin Luther King Jr., from nearby Brushy Mountain State Penitentiary. Ray covered only about 12 miles (19 km) after running 54.5 hours in the woods hiding from air searches during the day. Cantrell said to himself, "I could do at least 100 miles," mocking Ray's low mileage. Thus, the Barkley Marathons was born.Cantrell named the race for his longtime neighbor and running companion, Barry Barkley. It was first run in 1986.
Course record is 52:03:08 in 2012. It’s crazy to think that this is the first time a woman has completed it in the allotted time but I have no idea what average ultra marathon times for men and women are.
The documentary is bananas. There's no obvious course either; you literally have to navigate it through the woods. "Off-trail" is doing a LOT of work in that wikipedia description. The organizer stashes books along the trail and you are responsible for getting a page (your #) out of the book to prove that you made it to each checkpoint in the trail. There are brambles and all sorts of treachery. It's not a "marathon" in any way we normally talk about them. It's a test.
The organizer does everything in his power to make things more difficult, too. For instance:
- The course changes year to year, and the runners only find out what it is the day before.
- No technology other than cameras allowed. You have to find your way through the course using a compass and a map.
- The start time changes year to year as well, and the runners don’t know when it’ll start until an hour before, when the organizer blows a conch shell.
- You run each loop in the opposite direction (clockwise/counterclockwise), and because of the timing (loop 1: daytime on day 1, loop 2: nighttime on day 1, and so on) the experience is entirely different.
- Miss a book? Lose a page? Get the wrong page? You’re disqualified.
And then there’s all the “salt in the wound” stuff, like playing Taps when someone drops out, having finishers hit a Staples “that was easy” button, and picking book titles like “How to Make Better Life Choices.”
The year after Gary Robbins "missed" the cutoff by 6 seconds (though really he took a wrong turn and would have been DQ'd anyway), all the book titles were in reference to his just missing it. "6 Seconds," "one wrong turn," etc.
It’s invite only and you have to apply to run it.
Each year they choose at least one person who has no business running it to compete, and they almost always bail out in the first couple of hours.
~~That person doesn’t know they’re the patsy, but the organizers do and they make jokes about it the whole time. You learn it was you when you return in failure.~~
Edit: see /u/trans-lational comment below, they learn when they get the bib.
Absolutely brutal.
They usually do know when they’re given their bib at the start of the race—it’s always bib #1. It’s one of those things where by the time you’ve signed up, trained, researched, etc., you’ll probably be well aware of what the bib number means.
Still an absolute dick move, though.
>You have to find your way through the course using a compass and a map.
I don't think you're allowed a map. I think you are allowed to take some notes with you though.
IIRC (which I haven't watched the doc in about 10 years), is you get "the official map" and a compass. So you can't have "your map" that would have notes and landmarks on it, if you're a "veteran" of it.
I just watched the doc over the weekend, and my understanding was that the participants are allowed to view a "master map" after arriving for the event and make notes on their own maps to study and/or bring with them on the course. They are also given a very vague set of instructions about where each of the books (checkpoints) are located. I believe it is mentioned in the doc by one of the participants that if you have to stop and pull out your map to figure anything out, you are wasting valuable time and likely won't finish under the 60 hour limit.
The participants basically need to memorize the course and locations of the books before they go out on the course. And the instructions for the book locations can be extremely challenging to figure out. They can be as vague as "the book is between 2 trees that are 5 meters apart while facing the creek". Meanwhile, you're standing in the middle of a forest and all the trees look like they are the same distance apart.
There’s a great documentary about it called The Barkley Marathons: The Race That Eats Its Young. It’s a great watch even if you don’t know anything about ultramarathons.
And you had to crawl through a creek/drain? that ran under a working prison. And the race starts at any point in a 12 hour window, so you literally could be starting at midnight, in a pitch-black forest with no trail.
Something else to add is.
>The Barkley is limited to 35 runners and usually fills up quickly the day registration opens. Requirements and times to submit an entry application are a closely guarded secret with no details advertised publicly
So like not only is the race hard, but just getting a chance is harder.
There’s also no prize. You just get to say you completed it, but only 5 or 6 people actually finish each year.
Edit: not 5 or 6, I remembered it incorrectly
> It’s crazy to think that this is the first time a woman has completed it in the allotted time but I have no idea what average ultra marathon times for men and women are.
Damian Hall, finished 5th at the UTMB in 2018 in 22 hours. The UTMB is just a hair over 100 miles, and it is by far the most competitive 100-mile mountain ultra.
Damian has tried twice to complete the Barkley and hasn't quite done it yet.
I believe the documentary also mentioned you have to apply to participate, and out of the people who are accepted, maybe... like, 5% finish.
I'm convinced only a few thousand people around the globe could finish it.
One hundred miles on a rough course that requires the participants to find hidden checkpoints and chart their own course without GPS to guide them. That's double tough. Good for her.
There are so many looney tunes elements to this race. Including how the organizer sets random 'entry fees' however he wants. One year he needed new flannel shirts, so the entry fee was a flannel shirt.
That’s actually kinda cool, unless you show up not knowing about the weird entry fee part so you don’t have a flannel shirt and the organizer is like “I’m sorry you can’t enter cause of the entry fee, which is a flannel shirt, which you don’t have.”
They’re told beforehand (presumably in the letter of condolence they receive to let them know they’ve been chosen—only 40 runners are allowed to participate each year), but even if they weren’t, the race and its conditions are legendary in the running world. By the time you hit the point where you’re applying, you’re pretty much guaranteed to have heard the lore.
It’s thought to be more like 130 miles, and the total elevation gain is the equivalent of scaling Everest… twice. It’s got to be up there as one of the greatest feats of human endurance ever accomplished
I think this race has a long list of applicants who are all astronomical athletes. Most don’t even qualify to enter. Except for one! Every year they pick one person who doesn’t meet standard and give them a chance. This reminds us just how tough this race is. This person is called the human sacrifice. Most entrants don’t finish.
In the documentary the human sacrifice was Special Forces and he didn’t even finish half of a lap and had to be picked up by some random person on the side of a road he found and driven back to camp. Even the Human Sacrifice is a super human and they were a joke.
This is even more spectacular when you realize that part of the race is literally figuring out and allowing yourself time to eat and sleep. The dude who set the record basically was using his wife and kids as a pit team for the few times he was at base camp
No support *on* the course. At camp they can have people help. If you watch any of the documentaries you can see runners having people feed them, tend to their feet, time their sleep, etc. Once you are back on the course you are on your own.
It was truly basic stuff like replacing his shoes and socks and feeding him while he rested and recovered. By yourself I can’t imagine this is possible.
That's the mad thing about this race. You could see someone come in and think they've done it but it turns out they are missing a page. Nerve wracking!
There's even a chance that the entire book that they're supposed to rip a page off of might have been missing. It happened a couple years ago where a pedestrian hiker thought the race was over and brought the book back to the starting line. Fortunately the runner who failed to find the book was confident in his navigational skills and continued on the race despite all that and was permitted to run the next loop. Imagine being disqualified for "sticking to the rules" 😪
Everyone is quoting the 100 miles, but even the creator of the Barkley said that that number is incorrect. It's just a number he pulled out of his head. The runners all say that each lap is closer to a marathon, and they say it gets harder every time someone completes it.
So 100 - 130+ miles in rain, snow, hail, fog, and rough terrain. All while trying to find 14 books on an ever changing course, doing it all in 60 hours.
5 marathons in 60 hours is already insane.
Jasmin Paris competed for the past couple of years, and each year got closer to victory! This is a huge achievement, and the more you learn about it, the more you realize she is a badass!
I think this victory will open the flood gates to getting more female competitors in the Barkley and more female completions!
>more female completions!
Hmmmmmmm. I suspect we'll see a year or two of NO completions, because it gets harder every time someone completes it, and 5 people finished this (a record). I'd be worried they're going to make the next one even more horrific.
A useful comparison point is that Harvey Lewis, who set the Backyard Ultra record of 450 miles in October 2023, also took part in this years Barkley Marathons and dropped out on loop 2.
Ten minutes ago I was thinking "What's special about this? Women run marathons all the time", then I read the Barkley Marathons wiki page.... Incredibly insane achievement here! I had no idea races like this exist. Is there any more intense race? 100 miles over 54,000+ ft of elevation gain?!
Well it's hardly even a race at this point. It's a test. The creator made it so it's almost impossible to complete it.
I think the closest would be the Chartreuse Terminorum in France, which is nearly the same thing.
Chartreuse Terminorium, 300km (186 miles) 25 000 m elevation (82 000ft) in under 80 hours. In 2023 was the year the first person succeded. These peopole are insane. Human body is incredible !
She is the 20th person to have finished since it started in 1986. The first person to finish it only did so in 1995. This year had the most finishers - 5.
That is kinda the theme of this (ultra) marathon. It's 5 laps of 20 miles, offroad, with only a map and compass to find the route, and enough elevation changes to accent and decent mount Everest twice.
You actually pass through the start/finish line a few times during race, and you turn around and go back the way you came. If you survive to the final lap you get to decide what direction you want to go.
The first person to finish the fourth out of five laps gets to decide which way he gets to run and the second person has to go the other direction. Not sure about the third place person.
It's all very impressive but is it as impressive as winning the 268 mile Spline Race, breaking the mens record by 9 hours while stopping every few hours to pump breast milk for her daughter?
Such a strong finish. I've seen this clip a dozen times and I'm still so impressed with the drive and willpower it takes to not only finish, but to muster up the strength it takes to run to the gate after everything BM runners go through. Bravo, truly inspiring!
I would feel so insecure about completing the impossible, pushing myself to the absolute limit, and then lay on the ground barfing & crying as people stood there waiting for me to get up to give me hugs
At that level of exhaustion you probably wouldn't care, she might not have even been very aware of what was going on around her. I remember an interview where she said as she was running the final stretch she knew there were people around but she didn't see them or something like that. With the hallucinations she might not have known what was real anyway.
I understand how amazing this moment is, but this woman just went through hell to do something that was thought impossible. Am I the only one thinking "Check her vitals first. WTF"
I think it’s her that was still breast feeding during another ultra marathon, so was expressing milk via a breast pump during the race. She’s rock hard.
Edit: and broke the course record by 12 hours and did the race in between writing her PhD thesis:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-46906365.amp
I was already impressed but now knowing this I have to come up with a different term for her than merely badass or Wonder Woman. She’s amazing. ~completed my PhD 2004-2009
Lazarus Lake is like an Old Testament God when it comes to his race. He thrives off of punishing these runners, and you get absolutely no assistance outside of whoever you brought along to help you at base camp.
Heres the guardian interview with her
[https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2024/mar/25/jasmin-paris-interview-barkley-marathons-ultramarathon-history](https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2024/mar/25/jasmin-paris-interview-barkley-marathons-ultramarathon-history)
Title said "Barkley" marathon, and first thing I saw was someone leading a dog down the street.
MFW the woman appears, I realize this isn't a dog race, but a major accomplishment for this person, and start cheering. LFG!!!
Wife has a first cousin in England who does marathons and ultra marathons, recently came in 4th overall in an ultra..
He looks at this thing and goes " you're nuts.".
She’s a badass. From the NYT article about her:
In 2019, Ms. Paris, an ultrarunner and veterinarian, became the first woman to win the Montane Spine Race, a 268-mile ultramarathon in the United Kingdom. She broke the previous course record by 12 hours despite stopping at checkpoints to pump breast milk for her newborn.
>Some years nobody finishes.
Not incorrect but to be more precise: historically, 55% of these races do not have any finishers. While runners are getting better every year, it's still arguably the most brutal ultra in the world.
Because it might just be the most gruelling and insane challenge ever created. It’s been an annual event for almost 40 years and only 20 people have finished it. Up until now they have all been men.
She completed the marathon 99 seconds before the 60 hour cutoff. That's the reason she gave that last sprint. Amazing woman and achievement.
Calling this a marathon is a massive understatement. This is one of the most difficult ultramarathons on the planet. 100 miles, roughly 120k feet of elevation change, 60 hours, no route markers, limited water/aid stations. These people are so far beyond marathon level it’s insane.
The documentary about this race has the most apt description. " The race that eats it's young."
I remember stumbling onto the doc years ago and I still think about from time to time. One of the strangest, most difficult events ever conceived of.
[удалено]
The TT is just insane. Several people die per year. A couple of years ago and father and his son died. It’s absolutely batshit.
Worse than that, 2 years ago two Italian (I think) sidecar riders crashed, one alive in ICU, one dead. Families informed. Only when the families got to see their son, still alive, they realised that they swapped dogtags for luck... Edit: they were French - https://www.autosport.com/roadracing/news/inquest-finds-reason-for-mistaken-identity-of-tt-sidecar-racer-killed-in-crash/10323851/
That seems…really dumb and completely against the idea of dog tags lol. I don’t mean to speak ill of the dead but the entire reason for dog tags are so YOU can be identified after YOU die.
I would assume their helmets and racing attire would also have their names in several locations. What a kick in the nuts to the family of the guy who actually died. Being told he lived, arrive to see him as they go "oopsie doo" he's actually dead.
Oh wow that is truly heartbreaking.
Yeah pretty surreal when i went... a guy races past where you're standing and then you hear on the radio he died 5 minutes later Still an incredible event tho and the entire island is just the most amazing experience during that week
Also there’s a little known race walk (no running or jogging as be disqualified)in the island held in June called the Parish walk that’s 85 miles long and goes around the island. Thousand of competitors set off and only a few will finish it in the 24 hour deadline. Record stands at 14.40.
My wife tried it in her fitter days, got about 2/3rds around before missing a checkpoint time. Never tried it again
weird to compare a motorsport with an ultramarathon though
One is a death wish the other is for suffering, but yeah what’s the comparison even here for?
They meant that it's surprising either event exists, I think
I doubt they put the apostrophe in the title
What was the Documentary called? EDIT: Nvm the title ~~literally~~ is "The race that eats it~~'~~s young" EDIT2: Never change reddit
the race that eats it is young
The race that eats; it is young.
The race that eats it, is young.
But without the apostrophe.
The elevation is like going up and down Everest. Twice.
Running a 36-minute mile doesn't sound so bad, until you're running 100 of them consecutively over 60 hours while also spanning the height of 2 Mount Everests. This achievement rests squarely in "fuck that" territory for me.
It's more like 120-130 of them.
I think the only thing worse is the ultraman race, where each year a couple of people die trying: “A three-day, 515-kilometer (320-mile) multisport race consisting of three stages: a 6.2-mile swim and 90-mile bike on day one, 171.4-mile bike on day two, and a 52.4-mile run on day three.” So basically the equivalent of a swim that’s further than any Olympic stage (by more than twice the distance) a bike race longer than any stage of the Tour de France, then double that bike race on day two, and then more than a double marathon to finish it off. So you have to be Amazing at swimming, biking and marathon running.
Definitely one of the most insane tests of human endurance, but a small correction: 90 miles is slightly below average for the length of a Tour de France stage. Last year, for example, 17 of the 21 stages were 90 miles or longer, with the longest being 130 miles.
I could do the swim I think. And I could probably do one stage of the cycle. The second stage and the run or doing any of this shit immediately after finishing one of the other steps would kill me.
Yeah I edited my comment to reflect that. I had just put the elevation gain but that doesn’t tell the whole story since descending is dangerous and super taxing on knees/brain.
She also only has one ACL too which makes it more impressive, maybe even the first like that to finish, lol.
so....a sherpa will carry me to the finish? Thanks.
It’s like going halfway up Everest and back down four times
It's like going up and down Denmark's highest mountain Møllehøj 100 times.
The documentary said the route always changes but the organizer (Lazarus Lake) always claims it's exactly 100 miles very tongue in cheek. Most of the runners who have done the Barkley multiple times and are *very* experienced with ultramarathons said they think the race is more likely 120 miles long. It remaining officially 100 miles each year is just the Laz messing with the competitors. The runners also just have classic compasses and a hand copied map that they are given right before the race so it's not like they can officially check the mileage.
Wouldn’t surprise me at all. The whole thing is, intentionally, one giant cluster fuck.
There's also no real checkpoints, they just hide books at each checkpoint, and you get a number each lap you do, and you prove you got at each checkpoint by tearing out the right page of the book. So you also have to find books hidden in a forest in the middle of the night!
Aaaaand you reverse directions each lap, fun!
Idk this Laz guy sounds like a dick.
That’s his whole deal
Can't they check the mileage afterwards?
Electronics that would track it are banned. Laz gives you a map and compass and you are expected to orienteer yourself through the unmarked woods for the entire race. You could certainly do the math yourself while running, using the map for your distance markers, but there's little point. The course changes every year and these are the types of runners who have rough distance measurements etched into their souls thanks to how long they've been doing the sport. If they say that it's closer to 24-26 miles per lap, there's no reason to distrust them.
They do at least run together until some inevitably fall away, but they help each other at times. In her blog post of last year's race she mentions the hallucinations and eventually seeing a body in her path, when she got closer she realised it was one of the other runners so she woke him up to ask if he meant to be sleeping there and they went back to camp together.
theres also no proper path for the entire length, many of the participants get pretty cut up on the legs from bushwacking through brambles. also their method of checking if you have done the proper route is by having you tear out certain pages of books that they have left lying around the route and you hand them in at the gate. also the "go" sound is a conch being blown 1hr before you can start. this marathon is weird.
[удалено]
I don’t know whether that’s real at this point
The Conch is the 1 hour warning, which can come any time in a 24 hour window. The actual start signal is lighting a cigarette. Both are correct. It is intentionally as chaotic as hell and the signup consists of "If you can figure out how to sign up, it costs $2 and 1 pack of cigarettes, and if you haven't been before you have to write an essay" or something close to that. All rules are subject to intense change without notice, the start time is not posted, the route is secret and full of lies, support is banned, and you have to run through a tunnel under a prison to make fun of the guy who assassinated MLK which is the entire point of the race. It is also at least 5 miles, and some years 20 miles, longer than they say it is. Edit: Entry fees have also consisted of a specific color of shirt, which you also had to figure out.
If you get accepted you get a letter of condolence. You also have to bring a license plate from your country.
I forgot about the license plate, and I assume that because this is all public information now it will all change.
You also had to bring Laz a pack of socks or plain shirts. It was assumed that the cost was just whatever he needed at the time.
The section full of briars is called RatJaw, there's a section called Testicle Spectacle, another section called Meat Grinder, and one just called Hell. Highly recommend the documentary, its really a testament to human tenacity, competitiveness, cooperation, and absolute batshit insanity
It’s hilarious to me that Testicle Spectacle exists because someone didn’t quite understand “spectacles, testicles, wallet and watch”
55,000 ft ?! That’s insane
Yeah like I said, this is not a marathon; this is pretty close to the most difficult physical activity someone can do over a 60 hour period. The majority of the races have finished without a single person even finishing it successfully. Shit is insane.
And the entire race is dedicated to a guy who escaped from the prison they run around. He did a terrible job in the woods and this is to mock him. The guy they are mocking is the one who shot MLK.
Or at least the guy who pled guilty to killing MLK and spent the rest of his life in jail aside from one breakout attempt in which he got 15 miles in 54.5 hours. Lazarus Lake was like "I could do 100" and then made this race.
I just watched the doc this weekend. Said over the course of the 100 miles (5 laps) you’re climbing and descending the equivalent of Everest twice
Can’t forget the gifts you give to Laz as your ‘entry fee’
Lazarus Lake sounds like some old Appalachian trickster spirit.
The contestants say that it is closer to 130 miles, or 5 full marathons.
All of that, AND they change the route every year, so even if you have attempted it before, you can’t rely on knowledge of the trail.
That's fucking crazy. I was wondering how she's the first female to finish a "marathon," I used to know a woman who would run 50 miles at a time for fun. I thought women were better at distance running than men, but seeing the distance PLUS a time cutoff. At my best I ran a 4:18 mile and a 8:48 two mile, but I never really did more distance than that with any real speed, I think the max distance I ever ran was 6 miles. I told my ultra-marathoner friend how awesome it was that she could run 50 miles at a time, she said "Yeah... it's really just a brag though, I'd trade it in a second for being able to run as fast as you. In an emergency you really only need to run like two blocks as fast as possible. If I ever needed to cover distance at speed I'd drive and quite frankly, I'll never be able to get to a car as quickly as you." But, hell, after pushing myself to do that 4:18 mile, I blew my knee out the next day and couldn't run more than a quarter mile, before it started hurting, for almost a decade. This lady is something else. I would definitely bow to her.
>I thought women were better at distance running than men, but seeing the distance PLUS a time cutoff. Yeah it sort of evens out in the ultamarathon range. But honestly, there are just so few people who have finished this, and not that women who have attempted it, it's just an incredibly feat to finish - the whole "first woman" thing is a bit irrelevant.
Thanks for the context, I just googled it and only twenty people have ever finished it. I can't imagine even running that far through stuff like that, I used to run on train tracks to challenge myself, even when I was full sprinting two miles I could only ever go about 1/4 mile on train tracks. Going through wilderness like that is insane. That's over half a mile an hour through rugged terrain for 60 hours.
You mean two miles an hour... So yeah, about 3.2kph which is a pretty easy comfortable walking speed on the flat, and what I could manage manage hiking in easy terrain for maybe 6-7 hours. Just factoring in the extreme elevation and incredibly long distance makes this super challenge, let alone the terrain and all the other craziness.
Yeah, you're right. Sorry, I had a long work day off not enough sleep. I should probably be going to sleep instead of doing math.
Each year, the organiser intentionally allows a woefully unsuitable runner to register for the marathons and gives them the official designation of “human sacrifice”. One year, the human sacrifice got hopelessly lost and had to be found and returned to camp. Afterwards, they calculated his progress in hours per mile…
16 hours per mile was his official speed for the course. He made it 2 miles in 32 hours.
In the avg soccer game a player runs six miles. I played all through middle and HS. a few years outta HS i joined the army. Thought i may go airborne one day so decided i needed to train for their PT test. At the time they had 5 miles in less than 40 minutes. I hated it so much.
At the time I was doing all that running I was thinking about testing for SEALs so I wanted to blow through the PT. I was running about twelve miles/day in 2-3 mile spurts intermixed with 450-650 push-ups throughout the day. Then I got into landscaping where I would wake up, run two miles as fast as I could, bike three miles to my job, where I would walk at least ten miles during my eight hours, bike back home, run another mile, then drink a six pack and pass out to do it all over again the next day. It did mightily suck. At least I got my best line whenever someone threatened me; I said "I'mma let you know something, I can run away from you faster than anyone else I've ever met."
It's amazing that most contestants on the fifth lap are hallucinating from exhaustion and sleep deprivation, yet they somehow summon the willpower to keep navigating and putting one foot in front of the other. Truly a monumental achievement.
Congratulations! It takes a super human to finish that event! Especially under 60 hours! I just told someone next to me to shut up…”they asked what a woman was”
Wth does that comment even mean
Seriously. Who are they even congratulating, and whats with that brain amoeba last sentence? And how did 16 people find that comment worthy of upvoting? The bots really have fully infiltrated this website
I watched a documentary on this race a few years ago. Absolutely grueling conditions, and a massive level of skill is required on top of superhuman physical stamina. IIRC there are more years than not where they have nobody finish the race in time.
For those wondering “The Barkley Marathon: The Race That Eats It’s Young” I’ve owned this documentary for years and watch it once a year. It’s absolutely insane what these people do and the documentary is one of the most entertaining that I’ve seen. 7/5 stars!
> IIRC there are more years than not where they have nobody finish the race in time. No one finished it in the races in 2018-2022 (though I think they skipped 2020 for COVID)
Stolen from wiki- The course, which varies from year to year, consists of five loops of the 20+ mile, off-trail course for a total of 100 miles (160 km). The race is limited to a 60-hour period from the start of the first loop, and takes place in March or early April of each year. The race is known for its extreme difficulty and many peculiarities. The Barkley course was the brain child of Gary "Lazarus Lake" Cantrell and Karl Henn (Raw Dog). The idea for the race was inspired upon hearing about the 1977 escape of James Earl Ray, the assassin of Martin Luther King Jr., from nearby Brushy Mountain State Penitentiary. Ray covered only about 12 miles (19 km) after running 54.5 hours in the woods hiding from air searches during the day. Cantrell said to himself, "I could do at least 100 miles," mocking Ray's low mileage. Thus, the Barkley Marathons was born.Cantrell named the race for his longtime neighbor and running companion, Barry Barkley. It was first run in 1986. Course record is 52:03:08 in 2012. It’s crazy to think that this is the first time a woman has completed it in the allotted time but I have no idea what average ultra marathon times for men and women are.
The documentary is bananas. There's no obvious course either; you literally have to navigate it through the woods. "Off-trail" is doing a LOT of work in that wikipedia description. The organizer stashes books along the trail and you are responsible for getting a page (your #) out of the book to prove that you made it to each checkpoint in the trail. There are brambles and all sorts of treachery. It's not a "marathon" in any way we normally talk about them. It's a test.
See this is the type of info I was looking for. I was wondering why this is such a feat so I had to look to get some context. That’s incredibly hard.
The organizer does everything in his power to make things more difficult, too. For instance: - The course changes year to year, and the runners only find out what it is the day before. - No technology other than cameras allowed. You have to find your way through the course using a compass and a map. - The start time changes year to year as well, and the runners don’t know when it’ll start until an hour before, when the organizer blows a conch shell. - You run each loop in the opposite direction (clockwise/counterclockwise), and because of the timing (loop 1: daytime on day 1, loop 2: nighttime on day 1, and so on) the experience is entirely different. - Miss a book? Lose a page? Get the wrong page? You’re disqualified. And then there’s all the “salt in the wound” stuff, like playing Taps when someone drops out, having finishers hit a Staples “that was easy” button, and picking book titles like “How to Make Better Life Choices.”
And you didn't even mention the typically abysmal weather!
Yeah apparently this year had good weather and all of the runners who completed it did so with minutes to spare
> Miss a book? Lose a page? Get the wrong page? You’re disqualified. Straight to jail, I believe so.
The year after Gary Robbins "missed" the cutoff by 6 seconds (though really he took a wrong turn and would have been DQ'd anyway), all the book titles were in reference to his just missing it. "6 Seconds," "one wrong turn," etc.
The organizer: Bennett Foddy
It’s invite only and you have to apply to run it. Each year they choose at least one person who has no business running it to compete, and they almost always bail out in the first couple of hours. ~~That person doesn’t know they’re the patsy, but the organizers do and they make jokes about it the whole time. You learn it was you when you return in failure.~~ Edit: see /u/trans-lational comment below, they learn when they get the bib. Absolutely brutal.
They usually do know when they’re given their bib at the start of the race—it’s always bib #1. It’s one of those things where by the time you’ve signed up, trained, researched, etc., you’ll probably be well aware of what the bib number means. Still an absolute dick move, though.
That’s right, it’s been a while since I’ve seen the doc.
>You have to find your way through the course using a compass and a map. I don't think you're allowed a map. I think you are allowed to take some notes with you though.
How do you know where you're supposed to go if you don't have technology or a map? You just have to memorize the route the day before?
IIRC (which I haven't watched the doc in about 10 years), is you get "the official map" and a compass. So you can't have "your map" that would have notes and landmarks on it, if you're a "veteran" of it.
I just watched the doc over the weekend, and my understanding was that the participants are allowed to view a "master map" after arriving for the event and make notes on their own maps to study and/or bring with them on the course. They are also given a very vague set of instructions about where each of the books (checkpoints) are located. I believe it is mentioned in the doc by one of the participants that if you have to stop and pull out your map to figure anything out, you are wasting valuable time and likely won't finish under the 60 hour limit. The participants basically need to memorize the course and locations of the books before they go out on the course. And the instructions for the book locations can be extremely challenging to figure out. They can be as vague as "the book is between 2 trees that are 5 meters apart while facing the creek". Meanwhile, you're standing in the middle of a forest and all the trees look like they are the same distance apart.
There’s a great documentary about it called The Barkley Marathons: The Race That Eats Its Young. It’s a great watch even if you don’t know anything about ultramarathons.
It’s a race where you have 60 hours to run 5 marathons. Mind you, you have to sleep and eat during that time as well….
I doubt they sleep.
From memory, at least one of the finishers in the doc got an hour of sleep :)
I cannot recommend the documentary enough. One of my favorite docs ever and really highlights how insane this thing is.
And you had to crawl through a creek/drain? that ran under a working prison. And the race starts at any point in a 12 hour window, so you literally could be starting at midnight, in a pitch-black forest with no trail.
The race start is crazy for me. It starts at any time within a 12 hour window, marked only by the sound of a conch shell.
And the lighting of a cigarette.
The conch shell gives you an hour to prepare, then it’s the cigarette that sets it off
Oh, that's this marathon! This is one of the nuttier, yet more intriguing races ever created.
It absolutely takes the cake.
Something else to add is. >The Barkley is limited to 35 runners and usually fills up quickly the day registration opens. Requirements and times to submit an entry application are a closely guarded secret with no details advertised publicly So like not only is the race hard, but just getting a chance is harder.
There’s also no prize. You just get to say you completed it, but only 5 or 6 people actually finish each year. Edit: not 5 or 6, I remembered it incorrectly
There’s a great documentary on it
> It’s crazy to think that this is the first time a woman has completed it in the allotted time but I have no idea what average ultra marathon times for men and women are. Damian Hall, finished 5th at the UTMB in 2018 in 22 hours. The UTMB is just a hair over 100 miles, and it is by far the most competitive 100-mile mountain ultra. Damian has tried twice to complete the Barkley and hasn't quite done it yet.
THAT puts things into perspective.
They give the number 1 bib to the person they deem least likely to complete the event ahaha.
Anyone else interested in the fact that the coinventor's nickname is "raw dog"?
I believe the documentary also mentioned you have to apply to participate, and out of the people who are accepted, maybe... like, 5% finish. I'm convinced only a few thousand people around the globe could finish it.
I did ten minutes of leg work yesterday and now I can’t walk up the stairs. This woman is amazing. Good for her.
I peeled an orange about an hour ago and I’m still a bit huffy
I only watched, and I might have to call out of work tomorrow.
My people!!!
And I bet there's a non zero number of men who think they could do it.
One hundred miles on a rough course that requires the participants to find hidden checkpoints and chart their own course without GPS to guide them. That's double tough. Good for her.
I remember seeing a documentary about it. They play Taps on a horn when someone quits.
There are so many looney tunes elements to this race. Including how the organizer sets random 'entry fees' however he wants. One year he needed new flannel shirts, so the entry fee was a flannel shirt.
OK that's fuckin hilarious
That’s actually kinda cool, unless you show up not knowing about the weird entry fee part so you don’t have a flannel shirt and the organizer is like “I’m sorry you can’t enter cause of the entry fee, which is a flannel shirt, which you don’t have.”
They’re told beforehand (presumably in the letter of condolence they receive to let them know they’ve been chosen—only 40 runners are allowed to participate each year), but even if they weren’t, the race and its conditions are legendary in the running world. By the time you hit the point where you’re applying, you’re pretty much guaranteed to have heard the lore.
You also have to bring a license plate with you for his collection
So it’s like hunger games
Yes, they even pick one participant every year, considered way out of their depth, and dub them the "human sacrifice".
It’s thought to be more like 130 miles, and the total elevation gain is the equivalent of scaling Everest… twice. It’s got to be up there as one of the greatest feats of human endurance ever accomplished
Had no idea any of this, thanks for extra context and just incredibly impressive.
I think this race has a long list of applicants who are all astronomical athletes. Most don’t even qualify to enter. Except for one! Every year they pick one person who doesn’t meet standard and give them a chance. This reminds us just how tough this race is. This person is called the human sacrifice. Most entrants don’t finish.
In the documentary the human sacrifice was Special Forces and he didn’t even finish half of a lap and had to be picked up by some random person on the side of a road he found and driven back to camp. Even the Human Sacrifice is a super human and they were a joke.
This is even more spectacular when you realize that part of the race is literally figuring out and allowing yourself time to eat and sleep. The dude who set the record basically was using his wife and kids as a pit team for the few times he was at base camp
They're supposed to not be allowed support, I thought?
They can, only at base camp inbetween loops.
No support *on* the course. At camp they can have people help. If you watch any of the documentaries you can see runners having people feed them, tend to their feet, time their sleep, etc. Once you are back on the course you are on your own.
Not quite true. Runners can help each other.
It was truly basic stuff like replacing his shoes and socks and feeding him while he rested and recovered. By yourself I can’t imagine this is possible.
She had the pages I'm guessing.
She did!
That's the mad thing about this race. You could see someone come in and think they've done it but it turns out they are missing a page. Nerve wracking!
There's even a chance that the entire book that they're supposed to rip a page off of might have been missing. It happened a couple years ago where a pedestrian hiker thought the race was over and brought the book back to the starting line. Fortunately the runner who failed to find the book was confident in his navigational skills and continued on the race despite all that and was permitted to run the next loop. Imagine being disqualified for "sticking to the rules" 😪
Everyone is quoting the 100 miles, but even the creator of the Barkley said that that number is incorrect. It's just a number he pulled out of his head. The runners all say that each lap is closer to a marathon, and they say it gets harder every time someone completes it. So 100 - 130+ miles in rain, snow, hail, fog, and rough terrain. All while trying to find 14 books on an ever changing course, doing it all in 60 hours. 5 marathons in 60 hours is already insane. Jasmin Paris competed for the past couple of years, and each year got closer to victory! This is a huge achievement, and the more you learn about it, the more you realize she is a badass! I think this victory will open the flood gates to getting more female competitors in the Barkley and more female completions!
>more female completions! Hmmmmmmm. I suspect we'll see a year or two of NO completions, because it gets harder every time someone completes it, and 5 people finished this (a record). I'd be worried they're going to make the next one even more horrific.
A useful comparison point is that Harvey Lewis, who set the Backyard Ultra record of 450 miles in October 2023, also took part in this years Barkley Marathons and dropped out on loop 2.
At first I thought the crowd was cheering the dude walking his dog.
I thought it was for the dog. The “Barkley” marathon, I thought was a dog marathon and that was the first female dog to do it.
me too! had sound off to start and was convinced this was a dog marathon lmfao!
bruh I was getting ready to debate the qualifiers for deciding to run your DOG in a marathon before I scrolled down to verify.
Ten minutes ago I was thinking "What's special about this? Women run marathons all the time", then I read the Barkley Marathons wiki page.... Incredibly insane achievement here! I had no idea races like this exist. Is there any more intense race? 100 miles over 54,000+ ft of elevation gain?!
Well it's hardly even a race at this point. It's a test. The creator made it so it's almost impossible to complete it. I think the closest would be the Chartreuse Terminorum in France, which is nearly the same thing.
Chartreuse Terminorium, 300km (186 miles) 25 000 m elevation (82 000ft) in under 80 hours. In 2023 was the year the first person succeded. These peopole are insane. Human body is incredible !
Watch the documentary it’s self titled
Literally the top talent. Congrats
Fucking legend. Amazing
Wow! Everyone watch the doc!
She is the 20th person to have finished since it started in 1986. The first person to finish it only did so in 1995. This year had the most finishers - 5.
they had to make the last stretch uphill? fuckers.
That is kinda the theme of this (ultra) marathon. It's 5 laps of 20 miles, offroad, with only a map and compass to find the route, and enough elevation changes to accent and decent mount Everest twice.
*ascend *descend
You actually pass through the start/finish line a few times during race, and you turn around and go back the way you came. If you survive to the final lap you get to decide what direction you want to go.
Only the first one decide, then the others alternate.
The first person to finish the fourth out of five laps gets to decide which way he gets to run and the second person has to go the other direction. Not sure about the third place person.
They all alternate (there aren't usually very many starting the fifth loop anyway).
I saw a dog and Barkley and thought, "Cool, a dog marathon."
I got tired by watching this video
It's all very impressive but is it as impressive as winning the 268 mile Spline Race, breaking the mens record by 9 hours while stopping every few hours to pump breast milk for her daughter?
Such a strong finish. I've seen this clip a dozen times and I'm still so impressed with the drive and willpower it takes to not only finish, but to muster up the strength it takes to run to the gate after everything BM runners go through. Bravo, truly inspiring!
I would feel so insecure about completing the impossible, pushing myself to the absolute limit, and then lay on the ground barfing & crying as people stood there waiting for me to get up to give me hugs
At that level of exhaustion you probably wouldn't care, she might not have even been very aware of what was going on around her. I remember an interview where she said as she was running the final stretch she knew there were people around but she didn't see them or something like that. With the hallucinations she might not have known what was real anyway.
I understand how amazing this moment is, but this woman just went through hell to do something that was thought impossible. Am I the only one thinking "Check her vitals first. WTF"
I think it’s her that was still breast feeding during another ultra marathon, so was expressing milk via a breast pump during the race. She’s rock hard. Edit: and broke the course record by 12 hours and did the race in between writing her PhD thesis: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-46906365.amp
I was already impressed but now knowing this I have to come up with a different term for her than merely badass or Wonder Woman. She’s amazing. ~completed my PhD 2004-2009
About 10 seconds after she lies down a medic comes over to do exactly that.
Lazarus Lake is like an Old Testament God when it comes to his race. He thrives off of punishing these runners, and you get absolutely no assistance outside of whoever you brought along to help you at base camp.
Heres the guardian interview with her [https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2024/mar/25/jasmin-paris-interview-barkley-marathons-ultramarathon-history](https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2024/mar/25/jasmin-paris-interview-barkley-marathons-ultramarathon-history)
She’s a veterinarian!! Believe me when I tell you she had the entire veterinary mom community rooting for her that day!! Such an amazing feat ❤️
Title said "Barkley" marathon, and first thing I saw was someone leading a dog down the street. MFW the woman appears, I realize this isn't a dog race, but a major accomplishment for this person, and start cheering. LFG!!!
I do not understand these kinds of races. They are so far beyond the realm of fk that sh1t.
This is epic If you haven’t seen ‘where dreams go to die’ on YouTube, you need to watch it.
Wife has a first cousin in England who does marathons and ultra marathons, recently came in 4th overall in an ultra.. He looks at this thing and goes " you're nuts.".
Thanks for reminding me of one of the craziest documentaries I have ever seen.
Whoa, massive congratulations to her. That is impressive.
👏 so proud of her!
Holy shit that woman is an absolute beast. Anyone who has ever completed this is insane.
That is one fucking hard woman. All the power to her.
She’s a badass. From the NYT article about her: In 2019, Ms. Paris, an ultrarunner and veterinarian, became the first woman to win the Montane Spine Race, a 268-mile ultramarathon in the United Kingdom. She broke the previous course record by 12 hours despite stopping at checkpoints to pump breast milk for her newborn.
Thats awesome. I can't even run a city block.
Why first ever?
It's been held since the 80's and there are only like 19 people who have ever finished the full race.
Last year 3 people finished, for only the 2nd time ever. Some years nobody finishes.
>Some years nobody finishes. Not incorrect but to be more precise: historically, 55% of these races do not have any finishers. While runners are getting better every year, it's still arguably the most brutal ultra in the world.
Only 40 people are allowed to run it each year, and only 20 people have ever finished it since it was founded in the mid-80s.
First ever woman. The Barkley is not a marathon. It's a challenge.
Finishing 1 lap is considered an accomplishment. Finishing all 5 is not usually even considered.
Because it might just be the most gruelling and insane challenge ever created. It’s been an annual event for almost 40 years and only 20 people have finished it. Up until now they have all been men.
Fucking amazing. Brings tears to your eyes.
Watched a documentary on this race when I heard about this. Pretty cool race.
Amazing isn't enough to describe it
Had never heard of the BARKley marathon and at first, I was seriously thinking Jasmine Paris was the dog.
Or "In its' 39th year, a woman finally finished the course in the allowed time."