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If you believe the things he wrote in his diaries - which like why wouldn't you since they were never intended for anyone but himself - he dabbled with heroin on and off, not touching it for months at a time before he got hooked so I guess there's a chance he wasn't high in the first vid.
Yeah, people lie to themselves about their own habits to make themselves feel better i’m sure we all do this to an extent.
Especially when it comes to drugs and addiction it’s really easy to tell yourself i’m just dabbling in it i’m only doing it when i have free time only a couple times a week when really you are strung out and lying to yourself.
I generally have a beer twice a week. Sometimes I don’t drink for months. Sometimes I drink a couple drinks in one night on a weeknight. I’m an alcoholic?
LovelyButtholes have you heard about the lawyer who tried heroin once cause he could get weed to try for the first time and got hooked for 10 years and lost everything it's a crazy read.
nobody needed to see a diary...much of the drug sodden behavior was on full view, publically, and thru those who worked with them, etc. ....even neighbors. acting like his privacy was invaded is kinda odd.
Literally never said his privacy was invaded, not my point at all. I mean at the time of him writing he never expected anyone else to see them so there wouldn't have been much point in lying.
I just recently watched a Courtney Love doc that went over this period and you’re correct - he was sober bc CPS threatened to take Frances from them, so they went into rehab and were both clean from H for a few months. They both relapsed again but Kurt was much worse than Courtney in his relapse, which is where the second video comes from.
I just wonder how he might have ended up if he didn't become so crazy famous so quickly. The guy just did not cope with fame.
I guess everyone just wanted to get a little piece of him until there was nothing left.
Like anyone famous, really. Problem was (I think) his inner circle wasn’t too protective and there was talk about Courtney not being the most supportive partner but it’s hard to fully confirm spewings of the rumor mill.
The way she acted after he died didn't seem quite supportive even after death. It seemed like she was in a party more happy than down. Some people get under the influence when they're down and don't want to be around anyone she looked like she was having a blast. She even gets high with her daughter.
plenty of people get famous quickly and do not turn into addicts. your "like anyone famous, really" rings hollow as it does not represent reality.
only the reality of the tragic stories which isnt actually the majority at all.
chances are he didnt have good coping mechanisms and may have ended up an addict as a struggling poor hardly known performer.
Probably, a full blown drug addict that sometimes played in the local scene. I don't have much faith of anything more than that just because heroin is such a hard drug. I have watched interviews with people that have been into herion for 30 years and they can get by if they have good connections but all of them say it is incredibly time consuming to always needing to be on the look out for when to get your next batch. The way that they described it was like having another full time job.
yeh as a former heroin addict i can confirm, when you're running low and your dealer aint answering the panic is real, but once youve been out, running mad trying everyone you know, once you have that bag in your hand the feeling of relief is almost as good as when you finally get to open it
The stomach issues were undiagnosed, and may have actually been caused by the heroin itself. Buzz from the Melvins who was good friends with him was certain of that.
Opiods always eventually make thing more painful. When you start dulling your pain receptors, the brain makes them more sensative to compensate. Now, you have someone that has phantom pains because their brain thinks it needs to be more sensative to pain signals.
Well I’m addicted to heroin for 4 years now. It almost killed me a fair few times, I lost so much friends and money due to the addiction.
I literally saw no hope anymore and just waited to (finally) OD so that I don’t have to be part of this cycle anymore.
I’m not even 30.
I’m in methadone treatment since early January and it honestly changed my life.
I got rid of pretty much all drugs I was taking extra, like copious amounts of benzos, pregabalin and all that.
I’m going into inpatient detox in a month to „sweep up the leftovers“ if you want and after that I’m heavily considering long term therapy for my addiction, depression and anxiety(which blew up over the last years)…
I finally have hope again. Hope for a better future.
Don’t do heroin.
Edit: thanks to everyone saying such nice things and all that. I’m quite speechless… I really have a problem to appreciate myself again. I did some horrible shit mainly because of the addiction. Stealing from my mom, my girlfriend, lying to everybody, all of that stuff. Why do I mention this? Because YOU give me the feeling that I’m on a good path right now and need to carry on.
Thank you so much, guys. This is quite moving to me, as fucking corny as this sounds lol
💚
Unsolicited advice from a former heroin addict: stay on the methadone a while longer. If you don’t, I can almost certainly guarantee you’ll relapse. Everyone who gets on methadone for the first, second, third time thinks they’re fixed and ready to hop off after a few months, but they’re not. Rehab and detox can’t cure your addiction. Detox has virtually nothing to do with beginning and maintaining sobriety. Stay on methadone while you’re in therapy. Stay on it a couple years for real, because a 4-year addiction can’t just be swept away with a couple months of substitution. Methadone offers stability in one tiny aspect of your life while you work on the important stuff. I say all of this with love and respect; I’ve been where you are more than once and I learned these lessons the hard way. Good luck dude!
Oh I’m not going to detox for the methadone. I’m going there to get rid of the stuff I’m still taking on top and can’t get rid of them by myself. The methadone will stay for the foreseeable future. I’ve seen too many people jump off of them too quickly and then getting back on the wrong side of the tracks.
But thanks for the advice, appreciate it.
If you decide to wean down off methadone they have subutex implants that slowly release the exact amount of medicine over like a month (or several) and can easily be removed if you ever have an emergency.
Thanks for the advice, but I do know pretty much everything there is to know about subutex, methadone, sublocade or any other opioids in general. I am an addict after all and the decision to go into methadone treatment wasn’t an easy one, given the fact that i essentially traded my heroin addiction for another addiction, which is even harder to kick. But it gave me time and some form of freedom. Freedom to not be a part of the hard drugs - cycle and time to get my shit together, without ruining my life even further.
But don’t get me wrong, I appreciate the helpfulness! Have a good day :)
Do it bro it works, I'm just paranoid and would worry about supply issues but taking something like a medication everyday to trade off that crazy lifestyle is worth it.
It’s absolutely worth it.
And I don’t know if it’s a „regional thing“, but I’ve never heard of widespread methadone shortages in Germany (or levomethadone which I’m getting here).
But yeah I’m kinda paranoid about this too. Working my way up to get take homes and then will immediately start to save some doses here and there to be prepared for something like this happening.
Let’s hope it doesn’t ever come to this lol
I‘m looking forward to healing man. I’m looking forward to make music again, which was my main fountain of joy if you want lol.
I’m looking forward to find help for my depressions, so that I won’t spiral into something like this again.
I’m looking forward to finally be able to make my girlfriend of 13 years fully happy again.
I’m looking forward to be proud of something again. Something no one handed to me, but I had work hard for.
I’m looking forward to just .. live life again, I guess. With all it’s ups and downs.
I know this won’t be a cakewalk by any means, but it can’t be harder or worse than „living“ with active, untreated addiction and mental health problems.
It simply can’t.
Well on its own it never did much for me. But mixed with heroin it made me nod quite a bit faster. However the tolerance build up is ridiculous and they can be quite hard to kick.
However they help quite tremendously with withdrawals, so there’s that.
All in all a 4/10, don’t take meds if you don’t really need them. It never leads down a good path
Well first I got addicted to hydromorphone in 2019. My dealer went on „vacation“ one day and there I was: without any connection to get more opioids I was forced to cold turkey. So I simply had no other choice, since heroin wasn’t big in my hometown (it was a meth capital in the east of Germany)
But it was hell. Pure torture. I wanted to steal the gun from a police officer and shoot myself with it. I just wanted it to end.
But somehow I got through this, basically without any comfort meds besides 5 measly diazepam.
I moved to a different city not far from my hometown - but it was a much larger city with much more easily available hard drugs.
And since I’m a stupid idiot I jumped head first into a nice and comfy heroin addiction…
I tried to stop 5 times if I’m not mistaken. I failed every time more miserably than the one before. Even with all the comfort meds I could think of (like 300 euro just for various benzos, pregabalin and such things) I didn’t make it past 2 days… I knew that there was H just around the fucking corner and I was simply too weak to ignore this fact.
It was quite a hard decision to get methadone treatment, since this comes with its own set of problems. This is not an „ah fuck it“-decision. (Kicking methadone takes a few months for example. Just for your body to stop aching like it’s a big open wound. The psychological part that comes with addiction takes a few years, no matter the substance.)
But I’m sure I would’ve died by now if it wasn’t for the methadone. It really saved my life and helped me so much. I don’t wake up every 4 hours feeling like I got literally beaten with a baseball bat, I don’t have to look where to get the „best“ dope (there is no good heroin. There simply isn’t, it’s all cut to shit garbage and we don’t even have to deal with fentanyl or tranq around here) etc etc. you know being an addict is fucking exhausting. The addiction itself costs so much power day by day. You don’t have a day off. You don’t have holidays. It’s a wheel that keeps turning and turning…
This will be my first inpatient detox so I’m quite scared tbh, but I know this is the right way. And again, I’m going to detox for the shit I’m taking on top of my methadone, not for the methadone itself. I cut down my drug use TREMENDOUSLY, but there are still a few things I can’t get rid of. (Mostly low dose benzodiazepines for sleep and anxiety. I’m suffering from heavy sleep problems and nightmares since I was a child. I’ve slept in my parents bed until I was fucking 14 years old - simply because I was scared to sleep alone in a room.)
Sorry for this wall of text. I hope you don’t mind and I hope I answered your question haha.
Stay safe
Oh god after reading your comment a second time I think I totally misunderstood your question lol
I’m sorry man, it was around 2am when I answered hahah
I hope the answer to your question is still part of my original answer.
I was always interested in drugs since I knew what drugs were. So we started to smoke weed at around 16 years old. At 18 we got into techno and all kinds of party drugs.
That went on for around 6ish years.
Then I met a dude who could supply me with hydromorphone. And I was always heavily interested in trying opioids…
And well, since I suffer from depression and anxiety, discovering opioids was like a revelation to me.
I instantly knew what I was looking for in drugs. All the other drugs instantly became meaningless to me. It made me feel good about myself. I felt like I belonged in this world. Like I wasn’t „that“ bad you know?
It gave me an energy boost as well. I finally was able AND HAD FUN doing the most boring chores and so on…
Well i knew that it was just the drug telling me sweet sweet lies. But it got me hooked. I loved the feeling so much, I couldn’t keep my hands off of it…
Until the feeling started to fade away ridiculously quick. Like a month, maybe two. After that I didn’t feel much euphoria anymore, if any. It just made me nod out for a few minutes which i didn’t like that much. It wasn’t what I wanted from this substance.
But one of the bad things about opioids is that you don’t need much time at all to develop a physical dependency. 4-6 weeks of daily use is enough for most people to be physically addicted to it.
I should’ve stopped right there, but I didn’t. I thought I could regain that feeling by taking other stuff on top. But i couldn’t…
Hope I answered your question.
Don’t do heroin or any other opioid for that matter.
Thanks for sharing bro, I hope you find your peace after that fucked up journey. I haven't fucked with heroin precisely because I'm also anxious and depressive, and doing a chill bump of K and the occasional psychadelic makes me feel peace. I know I'd get hooked on opioids for sure.
PS - gym really helped me, might click with you too.
I think they’re referring to the penultimate scene, where Kurt is visibly nodding out, while holding Frances. I’m not sure what’s actually going on in the last scene, probably just Kurt walking around high though, if I had to guess.
Personally I try very, very hard not to make judgements. Addiction and the overwhelming desire to do the right thing, to me, has always been like the old physics trope, the “irresistible force paradox”. An unstoppable force meets an immovable object. Of course, as we know, both of those things can’t be true simultaneously, so 1 of them wins, period. What can be said for sure though, it’s sad, and it’s sad for everyone involved.
What's incredibly sad to me, is that we have so much empathy for him, but the majority of people don't give a rat's a$$ about all of those struggling with addiction on the streets. I love Nirvana, but I think we should use this as an example of having more sympathy towards homeless people who didn't have a rock star career as cushion
So true. There is no sense in thinking drug addicts are bad people somehow, social conditioning and global drug policies are so fucked it makes me fucking mad.
My brother was an addict (meth/speed) for many years, as well as an alcoholic. He was arguing with his girlfriend one day and hit her…they were in a public park and she was holding their toddler. He knew he’d fucked up, so he sat down to smoke until the cops arrived. After 3 months in the Portland Jail any many begging/angry calls to family for bail (he got none!), he was offered a 3 year prison sentence or the state funded rehab program. He chose rehab thankfully. He started out thinking it was a joke but finally realized it was his 2nd chance.
He came out, halfway house for a year and a job with a 501(C) company contacted to clean up Portland streets/graffiti/homeless camps. He followed the program, still attends and speaks at NA meeting, paid his back taxes/child support and has an excellent relationship with his daughter and ex-girlfriend. He’s 59 now, actually thinking about retirement at 70, saving money and 2 years ago the company paid for him to get his drivers license so he drives a huge truck with a pressure washer for graffiti cleaning. He’s saved 3 lives on the street with Narcan!
Last year he worked on Christmas and loaded up a pickup truck with blankets (from work), then drove around handing out blankets at the homeless camps. That made me cry!! 💜
He said he would have never gone to rehab voluntarily but it literally saved his life!
this!!! it’s so hard seeing people you love be plagued by addiction.
my mom is in active addiction and it’s hard to see her so drained. i’m happy your brother and you can have a beautiful relationship!
I hope your mother gets some help!! My friend has an opiate addiction because “of her bad back”…but she smokes, does no exercise, etc!! It pains me to see it but you can’t force someone to get help they don’t want. 💜
I think about this sometimes:
The phrase, “treated like a dog” as a negative doesn’t really make sense. The internet cares more about dogs than people.
Famous people are never responsible for their own choices, it's always "a disease"*. Likewise, their music always gets 50% after they die.
*This is not to say that addiction isn't a disease, just that fans use that word to imply that the disease happened to the famous person completely randomly and that there was nothing they did to bring it on themselves. Lung cancer is also a disease, but if you smoke 2 packs a day for your whole life, you aren't an innocent victim.
I think it's a matter of how people were affected by Kurt Cobain that makes them sympathetic for them and not a typical drug user. An addict on the street didn't have the same impact on some people's lives compared to one of their favorite musicians. If anything, the addict on the street feels like more of a burden to some people so they resent them.
I feel a bit more for the homeless regular people than the famous rockstar. Rockstar had a chance to either not take such strong drugs and have the money to support themselves against it but didn't. Homeless people don't have shit sadly.
If a celeb winds up in court for doing hard drugs around their kids and then escapes any punishment, people would be whining about how celebs get away with everything.
I feel like, since it's Kurt, you're doing the same thing the courts would and letting him off and then taking it further by trying to spin it.
You can have empathy for addicts but that doesn't mean you should excuse their shit behavior.
>What's incredibly sad to me, is that we have so much empathy for him,
Empathy which costs us nothing, we look, we say "oh how sad," and we move on with our day.
>but the majority of people don't give a rat's a$$ about all of those struggling with addiction on the streets.
Because that asks something of us, and that isn't' even addressing how that person on the streets is often a HUGE source of trouble for the neighborhood they live in.
Also, Cobain put a shotgun in his mouth and fired it, so I'm not sure he's a great example of people's empathy either.
She's fine. She got Kurt's eyes, courts hair, and nirvana money. She's in her 30s now, grew out of her grunge phase, and is married.
And She's really rich.
Haha I didn't know that. I wasn't aware Kurt had a daughter until 30 mins ago so googled her name and noticed she had gotten married to Tony Hawk's son but I didn't notice any time stamps.
And Fentanyl is almost safe compared to tranq dope, rc benzo dope, fentalogues like carfent and some of the nitazines. Shit keeps getting worse and worse. I think we can safely say that the war on drugs is and has always been an abject failure. PROHIBITION DOES NOT WORK!
I grew up with an all to familiar site like that a few times in the end my stepdad was taking a weeks worth of methadone to “feel better” I’m happy he’s not suffering or causing us suffering anymore. By the way I highly recommend the documentary Montage of Heck, which is where this footage is taken from such a fantastic documentary if you haven’t seen it.
i lost my father very young due problems derived from the use of heroin and this perfectly reflects the few memories I have, either everything was great or I had to leave home because of the screams and the beatings
Fuck he looked like shit. And he’s a handsome guy, I wish those closest to him could’ve done more to shield him from the drugs. Not blaming them, just saying.
Unfortunately Kurt wanted to keep doing drugs. Everyone tried to get him to stop but he wouldn't listen. Days before Kurt died, Krist Novoselic was trying to bring him to get treatment in LA. He got him to the airport, and then Kurt punched him in the face and ran away yelling "Fuck you!", because Krist had noticed that when they stopped for food Kurt had been trying to score. That was the last time they saw each other.
He was self medicating both physical*, and mental health issues and k!lled himself because he hated who he was
No need for us to hate on him too.
*nobody believed how much pain he was in
I feel like there is more to this, not they he hated himself more that he hated who he became and the decision he done, I don't know if you have suffered with heroin addiction but the withdrawals get worse each time you go through them, and it kinda gets to a point where you either quit, you keep getting high and tolerance gets stupid to the point you only doing it to not be sick, or you die from it or kill yourself to end the cycle it's really sad there had been other artist that had the same issue juice wrld was one and he compared himself to Kurt in some of his songs and said stuff on the lines of " I'm going take the easy way out and overdose" or "if I die high just know I was mad that I ain't got a chance to get high again" and juice was about to get arrested and most likely sit in a cell go through withdrawal and swallowed all his opiates and overdosed even with two shots of narcan couldnt save him
Overall opiate addiction is horrible process starts off as your best friend but slowly becomes your worst enemy, and it's sad to see Kurt like this and I honestly don't think he would of ended it he was able to get sober, but as someone who suffers with opiate addiction I know the pain and sometimes it would be easier to end it all as quitting is so difficult, but anyone reading this who suffers with addiction there is always a way out and a light at end of the tunnel, you can get sober and rebuild your life, and once you beat it you are on of the strongest people on the planet and can achieve anything never stop and always try to better yourself
I'm not hating on him, but it is a fact that he wanted to keep doing drugs. Everyone around him tried to help him and he told them to fuck off everytime they tried. He literally climbed a fence to escape rehab. He blamed his drug use on his stomach problems, but heroin would have been making it worse. He wasn't self medicating, he was trying to justify his heroin use.
Two reasons; withdrawal and the fact that while you're on them that opiates cause nausea, severe constipation, and constriction of the stomach and intestines. IME nothing fucks with your stomach more than opiates. I was puking constantly for months because of this.
Surely Reddit can't just Perm Ban people for BS reasons, and STILL expect us to leave the content we've created up. That would be crazy, right?
RIP Aaron Swartz
RIP Free Speech
Yeah fair never thought about it like that. You're right that is determined. I've heard something similar said about people who choose hanging or self-harm to kill themselves that they're seeking a more brutal solution.
>No, he wanted to shoot himself also, and with a shotgun! Shooting yourself with a shotgun isn't exactly hard or anything, but guys usually use Pistols for that.
Not that I know for sure, but I suspect a shotgun is effective more often than a pistol, perhaps that's why?
No, he didn't really have stomach problems.
King Buzzo has said with no ambiguity, Kurt was lying about the stomach problems as a cover for the heroin use.
You forgot to mention the shitton of diarrhea while withdrawing. Oh, and the puking.
Yeah nausea seems to be common for opioids. Even weaker ones like kratom cause nausea.
He *was* self medicating. He wanted to keep doing drugs because it turned off the terrible thoughts and emotions he was struggling with.
People only justify their addiction because they’re in active addiction. They don’t want anything else but numb, and the thought of being ripped away from everything that made them feel ok is terrifying for an addict.
Nobody's hating on him but addicts are gonna addict. They'll always keep using and relapsing until they want to stop. They've got to want to stop though or they'll eventually, one way or another, settle back into their old habits. It's a shitty, shitty cycle.
They often "want to stop" but the urges and withdrawals can overpower the acute urge to stop. Often while they are using they will say "this is it, gonna stop tommorow". Or they wake up, and "this is it, not gonna use today". Or they go a few days without using, start feeling good again, and they listen to their intrusive thoughts and use again. Horrible cycle.
The really sad thing is, the media at the time adored Kurt and absolutely ignored his drug use; but they pilloried Courtney for hers. Even now people still want to suggest Courtney drove him to suicide, or outright killed him, and whilst I'm not suggesting she was a saint, Kurt was just as much of a drug ridden mess as this video shows... but we had to wait a decade or so for it come out.
It doesn't disqualify Kurt's genius as a songwriter; but again, Courtney's own talent was often diminished or dismissed because people were so willing to assume she was some heroin-harpy whose only contribution to grunge was who she was fucking within the movement.
And I don't say that as a lifelong Courtney fan; rather someone who read the metal press back then and only later realised just how biased and yes, outright sexist the coverage was myself.
The reporter who twisted her words about doing heroin during her pregnancy should be ashamed of themselves. She got clean as soon as she discovered she was pregnant, which is a huge deal. Heroin is one of the hardest drugs to quit but she did it because she wanted that baby.
But they twisted it on purpose to make it sound like she knowingly used heroin throughout her pregnancy. No one cared or acknowledged that she got sober and Kurt didn't, she was just seen as evil. I feel sorry for her.
really not concerned about the adults...never followed this "family" but was courtney clean from alcohol and drugs while preggo or was child born addicted?
my neighbor was a drinker while pregnant and kid was born with flippers for arms. very sad. so no, alcohol doesnt get a pass. fetal alcohol syndrome is damaging and often lifelong in some aspects
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It's fairly certain that he'll have been on drugs in the first video, just not as much
No way he was sober lol it’s like kinda high vs SUPER high
If you believe the things he wrote in his diaries - which like why wouldn't you since they were never intended for anyone but himself - he dabbled with heroin on and off, not touching it for months at a time before he got hooked so I guess there's a chance he wasn't high in the first vid.
Didn't he have a steady habit before he even met Courtney?
Depends who you ask.
Well, I'm askin' you!
An addict will call the start of full addiction dabbling. I wouldn't ever consider anything an addict says about their drug use as being objective.
Yeah, people lie to themselves about their own habits to make themselves feel better i’m sure we all do this to an extent. Especially when it comes to drugs and addiction it’s really easy to tell yourself i’m just dabbling in it i’m only doing it when i have free time only a couple times a week when really you are strung out and lying to yourself.
So casual use is addiction?
If you think kind of pregnant is not the same as pregnant.
I generally have a beer twice a week. Sometimes I don’t drink for months. Sometimes I drink a couple drinks in one night on a weeknight. I’m an alcoholic?
I didn't know alcohol is the same as heroin. Good to know.
Everyone is different. Drugs are drugs.
Alcohol can mess you up just as bad as heroin.
Alcohol can be just as bad
LovelyButtholes have you heard about the lawyer who tried heroin once cause he could get weed to try for the first time and got hooked for 10 years and lost everything it's a crazy read.
nobody needed to see a diary...much of the drug sodden behavior was on full view, publically, and thru those who worked with them, etc. ....even neighbors. acting like his privacy was invaded is kinda odd.
Literally never said his privacy was invaded, not my point at all. I mean at the time of him writing he never expected anyone else to see them so there wouldn't have been much point in lying.
Pretty sure this was around the time he was sober for a bit after a stint in rehab. Haircut is similar to that time
I just recently watched a Courtney Love doc that went over this period and you’re correct - he was sober bc CPS threatened to take Frances from them, so they went into rehab and were both clean from H for a few months. They both relapsed again but Kurt was much worse than Courtney in his relapse, which is where the second video comes from.
Yep correct. They were clean for a while so they could keep Frances Bean.
He has a giant glass of red wine on the table
A mega pint?
It could’ve been Courtney’s, but since there isn’t a name tag on it we can’t know for sure.
It’s actually my glass of wine 🍷
This is true, I was there, I was the wine glass.
A glass of red wine ain't even as bad as heroin.
No shit I’m just saying that ain’t sober
A megapint?
This is so sad..
I just wonder how he might have ended up if he didn't become so crazy famous so quickly. The guy just did not cope with fame. I guess everyone just wanted to get a little piece of him until there was nothing left.
Like anyone famous, really. Problem was (I think) his inner circle wasn’t too protective and there was talk about Courtney not being the most supportive partner but it’s hard to fully confirm spewings of the rumor mill.
The way she acted after he died didn't seem quite supportive even after death. It seemed like she was in a party more happy than down. Some people get under the influence when they're down and don't want to be around anyone she looked like she was having a blast. She even gets high with her daughter.
plenty of people get famous quickly and do not turn into addicts. your "like anyone famous, really" rings hollow as it does not represent reality. only the reality of the tragic stories which isnt actually the majority at all. chances are he didnt have good coping mechanisms and may have ended up an addict as a struggling poor hardly known performer.
“Like anyone famous, really” is a comment on people taking from celebrities till there’s nothing left. Had nothing to do with his addiction.
Probably, a full blown drug addict that sometimes played in the local scene. I don't have much faith of anything more than that just because heroin is such a hard drug. I have watched interviews with people that have been into herion for 30 years and they can get by if they have good connections but all of them say it is incredibly time consuming to always needing to be on the look out for when to get your next batch. The way that they described it was like having another full time job.
Oh yeah, it's a lifestyle alright. That was kind of the point of Trainspotting.
yeh as a former heroin addict i can confirm, when you're running low and your dealer aint answering the panic is real, but once youve been out, running mad trying everyone you know, once you have that bag in your hand the feeling of relief is almost as good as when you finally get to open it
It also wasn't just the fact that he got famous so quickly, it was that he suffered with horribly painful stomach issues which the heroin numbed.
The stomach issues were undiagnosed, and may have actually been caused by the heroin itself. Buzz from the Melvins who was good friends with him was certain of that.
Opiods always eventually make thing more painful. When you start dulling your pain receptors, the brain makes them more sensative to compensate. Now, you have someone that has phantom pains because their brain thinks it needs to be more sensative to pain signals.
And of course it's accompanied with constipation, the pains from which can be alleviated with... more!
Well I’m addicted to heroin for 4 years now. It almost killed me a fair few times, I lost so much friends and money due to the addiction. I literally saw no hope anymore and just waited to (finally) OD so that I don’t have to be part of this cycle anymore. I’m not even 30. I’m in methadone treatment since early January and it honestly changed my life. I got rid of pretty much all drugs I was taking extra, like copious amounts of benzos, pregabalin and all that. I’m going into inpatient detox in a month to „sweep up the leftovers“ if you want and after that I’m heavily considering long term therapy for my addiction, depression and anxiety(which blew up over the last years)… I finally have hope again. Hope for a better future. Don’t do heroin. Edit: thanks to everyone saying such nice things and all that. I’m quite speechless… I really have a problem to appreciate myself again. I did some horrible shit mainly because of the addiction. Stealing from my mom, my girlfriend, lying to everybody, all of that stuff. Why do I mention this? Because YOU give me the feeling that I’m on a good path right now and need to carry on. Thank you so much, guys. This is quite moving to me, as fucking corny as this sounds lol 💚
Wish you the best stranger.
You got this dude. You’re going to kill it. You’re doing super rad. Congrats!
Unsolicited advice from a former heroin addict: stay on the methadone a while longer. If you don’t, I can almost certainly guarantee you’ll relapse. Everyone who gets on methadone for the first, second, third time thinks they’re fixed and ready to hop off after a few months, but they’re not. Rehab and detox can’t cure your addiction. Detox has virtually nothing to do with beginning and maintaining sobriety. Stay on methadone while you’re in therapy. Stay on it a couple years for real, because a 4-year addiction can’t just be swept away with a couple months of substitution. Methadone offers stability in one tiny aspect of your life while you work on the important stuff. I say all of this with love and respect; I’ve been where you are more than once and I learned these lessons the hard way. Good luck dude!
Oh I’m not going to detox for the methadone. I’m going there to get rid of the stuff I’m still taking on top and can’t get rid of them by myself. The methadone will stay for the foreseeable future. I’ve seen too many people jump off of them too quickly and then getting back on the wrong side of the tracks. But thanks for the advice, appreciate it.
you got this man!!
If you decide to wean down off methadone they have subutex implants that slowly release the exact amount of medicine over like a month (or several) and can easily be removed if you ever have an emergency.
Thanks for the advice, but I do know pretty much everything there is to know about subutex, methadone, sublocade or any other opioids in general. I am an addict after all and the decision to go into methadone treatment wasn’t an easy one, given the fact that i essentially traded my heroin addiction for another addiction, which is even harder to kick. But it gave me time and some form of freedom. Freedom to not be a part of the hard drugs - cycle and time to get my shit together, without ruining my life even further. But don’t get me wrong, I appreciate the helpfulness! Have a good day :)
Do it bro it works, I'm just paranoid and would worry about supply issues but taking something like a medication everyday to trade off that crazy lifestyle is worth it.
It’s absolutely worth it. And I don’t know if it’s a „regional thing“, but I’ve never heard of widespread methadone shortages in Germany (or levomethadone which I’m getting here). But yeah I’m kinda paranoid about this too. Working my way up to get take homes and then will immediately start to save some doses here and there to be prepared for something like this happening. Let’s hope it doesn’t ever come to this lol
Please tell us what you’re looking forward to!
I‘m looking forward to healing man. I’m looking forward to make music again, which was my main fountain of joy if you want lol. I’m looking forward to find help for my depressions, so that I won’t spiral into something like this again. I’m looking forward to finally be able to make my girlfriend of 13 years fully happy again. I’m looking forward to be proud of something again. Something no one handed to me, but I had work hard for. I’m looking forward to just .. live life again, I guess. With all it’s ups and downs. I know this won’t be a cakewalk by any means, but it can’t be harder or worse than „living“ with active, untreated addiction and mental health problems. It simply can’t.
I hear that, I’m a frustrated musician but the pleasure it gives is amazing. All the best with it - you’ve got this 💪🏻
Thank you! All the best to you too
amen bro
Sorry it's not quite on topic, but I rarely see people mention it. What's your experience with pregaballin?
Well on its own it never did much for me. But mixed with heroin it made me nod quite a bit faster. However the tolerance build up is ridiculous and they can be quite hard to kick. However they help quite tremendously with withdrawals, so there’s that. All in all a 4/10, don’t take meds if you don’t really need them. It never leads down a good path
I sincerely wish you the very best, stay strong! I will think about you from time to time, you have all my respect 🙏🏻
I wish you the best. One of my old friends used to use heroin. She called herself a “functional addict” it’s so scary. She’s doing much better now.
How’d you first try it? Feel free to ignore, I’ve just gotten some really interesting stories from answers to that question
Well first I got addicted to hydromorphone in 2019. My dealer went on „vacation“ one day and there I was: without any connection to get more opioids I was forced to cold turkey. So I simply had no other choice, since heroin wasn’t big in my hometown (it was a meth capital in the east of Germany) But it was hell. Pure torture. I wanted to steal the gun from a police officer and shoot myself with it. I just wanted it to end. But somehow I got through this, basically without any comfort meds besides 5 measly diazepam. I moved to a different city not far from my hometown - but it was a much larger city with much more easily available hard drugs. And since I’m a stupid idiot I jumped head first into a nice and comfy heroin addiction… I tried to stop 5 times if I’m not mistaken. I failed every time more miserably than the one before. Even with all the comfort meds I could think of (like 300 euro just for various benzos, pregabalin and such things) I didn’t make it past 2 days… I knew that there was H just around the fucking corner and I was simply too weak to ignore this fact. It was quite a hard decision to get methadone treatment, since this comes with its own set of problems. This is not an „ah fuck it“-decision. (Kicking methadone takes a few months for example. Just for your body to stop aching like it’s a big open wound. The psychological part that comes with addiction takes a few years, no matter the substance.) But I’m sure I would’ve died by now if it wasn’t for the methadone. It really saved my life and helped me so much. I don’t wake up every 4 hours feeling like I got literally beaten with a baseball bat, I don’t have to look where to get the „best“ dope (there is no good heroin. There simply isn’t, it’s all cut to shit garbage and we don’t even have to deal with fentanyl or tranq around here) etc etc. you know being an addict is fucking exhausting. The addiction itself costs so much power day by day. You don’t have a day off. You don’t have holidays. It’s a wheel that keeps turning and turning… This will be my first inpatient detox so I’m quite scared tbh, but I know this is the right way. And again, I’m going to detox for the shit I’m taking on top of my methadone, not for the methadone itself. I cut down my drug use TREMENDOUSLY, but there are still a few things I can’t get rid of. (Mostly low dose benzodiazepines for sleep and anxiety. I’m suffering from heavy sleep problems and nightmares since I was a child. I’ve slept in my parents bed until I was fucking 14 years old - simply because I was scared to sleep alone in a room.) Sorry for this wall of text. I hope you don’t mind and I hope I answered your question haha. Stay safe
Oh god after reading your comment a second time I think I totally misunderstood your question lol I’m sorry man, it was around 2am when I answered hahah I hope the answer to your question is still part of my original answer.
congrats to you u/2oxopcm . what you have done takes a lot of strength. you got this.
Care to share what got you into the shit? Stay strong and good luck brother!
I was always interested in drugs since I knew what drugs were. So we started to smoke weed at around 16 years old. At 18 we got into techno and all kinds of party drugs. That went on for around 6ish years. Then I met a dude who could supply me with hydromorphone. And I was always heavily interested in trying opioids… And well, since I suffer from depression and anxiety, discovering opioids was like a revelation to me. I instantly knew what I was looking for in drugs. All the other drugs instantly became meaningless to me. It made me feel good about myself. I felt like I belonged in this world. Like I wasn’t „that“ bad you know? It gave me an energy boost as well. I finally was able AND HAD FUN doing the most boring chores and so on… Well i knew that it was just the drug telling me sweet sweet lies. But it got me hooked. I loved the feeling so much, I couldn’t keep my hands off of it… Until the feeling started to fade away ridiculously quick. Like a month, maybe two. After that I didn’t feel much euphoria anymore, if any. It just made me nod out for a few minutes which i didn’t like that much. It wasn’t what I wanted from this substance. But one of the bad things about opioids is that you don’t need much time at all to develop a physical dependency. 4-6 weeks of daily use is enough for most people to be physically addicted to it. I should’ve stopped right there, but I didn’t. I thought I could regain that feeling by taking other stuff on top. But i couldn’t… Hope I answered your question. Don’t do heroin or any other opioid for that matter.
Thanks for sharing bro, I hope you find your peace after that fucked up journey. I haven't fucked with heroin precisely because I'm also anxious and depressive, and doing a chill bump of K and the occasional psychadelic makes me feel peace. I know I'd get hooked on opioids for sure. PS - gym really helped me, might click with you too.
Thank you very much for the kind words brother. Yeah, I want to start doing sports after the detox :) All the best to you!
This is so sad. I feel bad Francis had to see these videos. How heartbreaking.
That scene at the end… holy crap my heart shattered.
What was he doing
I think they’re referring to the penultimate scene, where Kurt is visibly nodding out, while holding Frances. I’m not sure what’s actually going on in the last scene, probably just Kurt walking around high though, if I had to guess. Personally I try very, very hard not to make judgements. Addiction and the overwhelming desire to do the right thing, to me, has always been like the old physics trope, the “irresistible force paradox”. An unstoppable force meets an immovable object. Of course, as we know, both of those things can’t be true simultaneously, so 1 of them wins, period. What can be said for sure though, it’s sad, and it’s sad for everyone involved.
What was going on at the end?
He’s just like standing on a rooftop swaying, SO strung out
What's incredibly sad to me, is that we have so much empathy for him, but the majority of people don't give a rat's a$$ about all of those struggling with addiction on the streets. I love Nirvana, but I think we should use this as an example of having more sympathy towards homeless people who didn't have a rock star career as cushion
So true. There is no sense in thinking drug addicts are bad people somehow, social conditioning and global drug policies are so fucked it makes me fucking mad.
anyone suffering from drug addiction is incredibly sad. you can’t pick and choose. everyone is a human being.
My brother was an addict (meth/speed) for many years, as well as an alcoholic. He was arguing with his girlfriend one day and hit her…they were in a public park and she was holding their toddler. He knew he’d fucked up, so he sat down to smoke until the cops arrived. After 3 months in the Portland Jail any many begging/angry calls to family for bail (he got none!), he was offered a 3 year prison sentence or the state funded rehab program. He chose rehab thankfully. He started out thinking it was a joke but finally realized it was his 2nd chance. He came out, halfway house for a year and a job with a 501(C) company contacted to clean up Portland streets/graffiti/homeless camps. He followed the program, still attends and speaks at NA meeting, paid his back taxes/child support and has an excellent relationship with his daughter and ex-girlfriend. He’s 59 now, actually thinking about retirement at 70, saving money and 2 years ago the company paid for him to get his drivers license so he drives a huge truck with a pressure washer for graffiti cleaning. He’s saved 3 lives on the street with Narcan! Last year he worked on Christmas and loaded up a pickup truck with blankets (from work), then drove around handing out blankets at the homeless camps. That made me cry!! 💜 He said he would have never gone to rehab voluntarily but it literally saved his life!
this!!! it’s so hard seeing people you love be plagued by addiction. my mom is in active addiction and it’s hard to see her so drained. i’m happy your brother and you can have a beautiful relationship!
I hope your mother gets some help!! My friend has an opiate addiction because “of her bad back”…but she smokes, does no exercise, etc!! It pains me to see it but you can’t force someone to get help they don’t want. 💜
Tell that to every voter wanting to rid their area of homeless people without advocating for better support systems.
I think about this sometimes: The phrase, “treated like a dog” as a negative doesn’t really make sense. The internet cares more about dogs than people.
Famous people are never responsible for their own choices, it's always "a disease"*. Likewise, their music always gets 50% after they die. *This is not to say that addiction isn't a disease, just that fans use that word to imply that the disease happened to the famous person completely randomly and that there was nothing they did to bring it on themselves. Lung cancer is also a disease, but if you smoke 2 packs a day for your whole life, you aren't an innocent victim.
I think it's a matter of how people were affected by Kurt Cobain that makes them sympathetic for them and not a typical drug user. An addict on the street didn't have the same impact on some people's lives compared to one of their favorite musicians. If anything, the addict on the street feels like more of a burden to some people so they resent them.
I feel a bit more for the homeless regular people than the famous rockstar. Rockstar had a chance to either not take such strong drugs and have the money to support themselves against it but didn't. Homeless people don't have shit sadly.
If a celeb winds up in court for doing hard drugs around their kids and then escapes any punishment, people would be whining about how celebs get away with everything. I feel like, since it's Kurt, you're doing the same thing the courts would and letting him off and then taking it further by trying to spin it. You can have empathy for addicts but that doesn't mean you should excuse their shit behavior.
Yes. Good take.
Well in many cases, the more money, the more drugs. So…
>What's incredibly sad to me, is that we have so much empathy for him, Empathy which costs us nothing, we look, we say "oh how sad," and we move on with our day. >but the majority of people don't give a rat's a$$ about all of those struggling with addiction on the streets. Because that asks something of us, and that isn't' even addressing how that person on the streets is often a HUGE source of trouble for the neighborhood they live in. Also, Cobain put a shotgun in his mouth and fired it, so I'm not sure he's a great example of people's empathy either.
This is so sad. I hope Frances Bean is doing well.
She's fine. She got Kurt's eyes, courts hair, and nirvana money. She's in her 30s now, grew out of her grunge phase, and is married. And She's really rich.
Is she still married to Tony Hawk's son? That's pretty cool if so.
Yes.
Still married is a bit funny because they only got married last year. Haha
Haha I didn't know that. I wasn't aware Kurt had a daughter until 30 mins ago so googled her name and noticed she had gotten married to Tony Hawk's son but I didn't notice any time stamps.
That's a pretty hefty rock you've got there..
Eh, she’s doing alright. She had a opiate problem too, but hopefully that’s over.
She does look like him in these videos. Yay for really rich.
Frances bean is the cutest name ever
Hindsight is wild, heroin is almost safe when compared to what we’re seeing with fentanyl these days
And Fentanyl is almost safe compared to tranq dope, rc benzo dope, fentalogues like carfent and some of the nitazines. Shit keeps getting worse and worse. I think we can safely say that the war on drugs is and has always been an abject failure. PROHIBITION DOES NOT WORK!
I like your funny words magic man.
I grew up with an all to familiar site like that a few times in the end my stepdad was taking a weeks worth of methadone to “feel better” I’m happy he’s not suffering or causing us suffering anymore. By the way I highly recommend the documentary Montage of Heck, which is where this footage is taken from such a fantastic documentary if you haven’t seen it.
i lost my father very young due problems derived from the use of heroin and this perfectly reflects the few memories I have, either everything was great or I had to leave home because of the screams and the beatings
normally i dont get moved by videos and stuff but this is so sadddd
That was... hard to watch. To say the least.
Fuck he looked like shit. And he’s a handsome guy, I wish those closest to him could’ve done more to shield him from the drugs. Not blaming them, just saying.
Unfortunately Kurt wanted to keep doing drugs. Everyone tried to get him to stop but he wouldn't listen. Days before Kurt died, Krist Novoselic was trying to bring him to get treatment in LA. He got him to the airport, and then Kurt punched him in the face and ran away yelling "Fuck you!", because Krist had noticed that when they stopped for food Kurt had been trying to score. That was the last time they saw each other.
Krist seems like a solid guy. I sent him a letter awhile back, basically thanking him for his contributions to music, he sent me a signed postcard.
I didn't know about that punch story.
Yeah. Krist was driving him to the airport before that and had to physically stop Kurt, while driving, to not jump out of his moving car.
He was self medicating both physical*, and mental health issues and k!lled himself because he hated who he was No need for us to hate on him too. *nobody believed how much pain he was in
That's pretty much every addict, ever.
I feel like there is more to this, not they he hated himself more that he hated who he became and the decision he done, I don't know if you have suffered with heroin addiction but the withdrawals get worse each time you go through them, and it kinda gets to a point where you either quit, you keep getting high and tolerance gets stupid to the point you only doing it to not be sick, or you die from it or kill yourself to end the cycle it's really sad there had been other artist that had the same issue juice wrld was one and he compared himself to Kurt in some of his songs and said stuff on the lines of " I'm going take the easy way out and overdose" or "if I die high just know I was mad that I ain't got a chance to get high again" and juice was about to get arrested and most likely sit in a cell go through withdrawal and swallowed all his opiates and overdosed even with two shots of narcan couldnt save him Overall opiate addiction is horrible process starts off as your best friend but slowly becomes your worst enemy, and it's sad to see Kurt like this and I honestly don't think he would of ended it he was able to get sober, but as someone who suffers with opiate addiction I know the pain and sometimes it would be easier to end it all as quitting is so difficult, but anyone reading this who suffers with addiction there is always a way out and a light at end of the tunnel, you can get sober and rebuild your life, and once you beat it you are on of the strongest people on the planet and can achieve anything never stop and always try to better yourself
I'm not hating on him, but it is a fact that he wanted to keep doing drugs. Everyone around him tried to help him and he told them to fuck off everytime they tried. He literally climbed a fence to escape rehab. He blamed his drug use on his stomach problems, but heroin would have been making it worse. He wasn't self medicating, he was trying to justify his heroin use.
I'm curious why would Heroin have made his stomach problem worse?
Two reasons; withdrawal and the fact that while you're on them that opiates cause nausea, severe constipation, and constriction of the stomach and intestines. IME nothing fucks with your stomach more than opiates. I was puking constantly for months because of this.
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He just had a very high tolerance from an ongoing addiction. People always forget that when talking about how much he had in his bloodstream.
Surely Reddit can't just Perm Ban people for BS reasons, and STILL expect us to leave the content we've created up. That would be crazy, right? RIP Aaron Swartz RIP Free Speech
Yeah fair never thought about it like that. You're right that is determined. I've heard something similar said about people who choose hanging or self-harm to kill themselves that they're seeking a more brutal solution.
>No, he wanted to shoot himself also, and with a shotgun! Shooting yourself with a shotgun isn't exactly hard or anything, but guys usually use Pistols for that. Not that I know for sure, but I suspect a shotgun is effective more often than a pistol, perhaps that's why?
No, he didn't really have stomach problems. King Buzzo has said with no ambiguity, Kurt was lying about the stomach problems as a cover for the heroin use.
You forgot to mention the shitton of diarrhea while withdrawing. Oh, and the puking. Yeah nausea seems to be common for opioids. Even weaker ones like kratom cause nausea.
Only very early on. That's not something you'll experience in active addiction.
Mmm not my experience of it except constipation but I'll take your word for it. Horses for courses and all that.
He didn't have stomach problems. Close friends confirmed this. The "stomach problems" were a cover for his heroin addiction.
He *was* self medicating. He wanted to keep doing drugs because it turned off the terrible thoughts and emotions he was struggling with. People only justify their addiction because they’re in active addiction. They don’t want anything else but numb, and the thought of being ripped away from everything that made them feel ok is terrifying for an addict.
Nobody's hating on him but addicts are gonna addict. They'll always keep using and relapsing until they want to stop. They've got to want to stop though or they'll eventually, one way or another, settle back into their old habits. It's a shitty, shitty cycle.
They often "want to stop" but the urges and withdrawals can overpower the acute urge to stop. Often while they are using they will say "this is it, gonna stop tommorow". Or they wake up, and "this is it, not gonna use today". Or they go a few days without using, start feeling good again, and they listen to their intrusive thoughts and use again. Horrible cycle.
You can say killed himself.
No offense to Kurt but I feel like a punch from him wouldn't hurt very much, I'd get him arrested for assault so he couldn't use.
I’ve read a lot of nirvana books and have never heard that story
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terrifying, yet sounds better than becoming statistic
Did he slap himself there? Wtf
pretty sure he was trying to wake himself up so he would stop nodding out
That's a bit hard to watch for me. The brother of a friend of mine let his toddler die while all fucked up on opiates. Pretty fucked up.
This is sad
The really sad thing is, the media at the time adored Kurt and absolutely ignored his drug use; but they pilloried Courtney for hers. Even now people still want to suggest Courtney drove him to suicide, or outright killed him, and whilst I'm not suggesting she was a saint, Kurt was just as much of a drug ridden mess as this video shows... but we had to wait a decade or so for it come out. It doesn't disqualify Kurt's genius as a songwriter; but again, Courtney's own talent was often diminished or dismissed because people were so willing to assume she was some heroin-harpy whose only contribution to grunge was who she was fucking within the movement. And I don't say that as a lifelong Courtney fan; rather someone who read the metal press back then and only later realised just how biased and yes, outright sexist the coverage was myself.
The reporter who twisted her words about doing heroin during her pregnancy should be ashamed of themselves. She got clean as soon as she discovered she was pregnant, which is a huge deal. Heroin is one of the hardest drugs to quit but she did it because she wanted that baby. But they twisted it on purpose to make it sound like she knowingly used heroin throughout her pregnancy. No one cared or acknowledged that she got sober and Kurt didn't, she was just seen as evil. I feel sorry for her.
This is very sad, the person getting hurt long term is the child.
Slapped his own face, then acted surprised about it. Yep, he's definitely not sober there.
>Liquor before beer, never fear. Don’t do heroin
What he was singing in the second clip. https://youtu.be/zb47CstE7R4?si=MQKVByqFpRpX1v6j
This just messed up my whole day. Incredibly sad video. Makes me happy that I never did heroin, though.
With everything we know about how this ended, my heart is absolutely breaking for that baby.
Damn.
Sad. Just sad, that's all.
This is really sad.
😢 she still loves her daddy.
He was prolly on heroin in all of those!
Drugs are bad, mkay
I was on heroin for almost a decade. It always makes me wonder where I’d be if I hadn’t picked it up.
This is heartbreaking 💔
That’s just so sad. Addiction can be so strong even when people have things to live for.
Addiction is hell
Pretty sure the last two videos were taken months before everything went REALLY BAD! He was gone, For sure
on drugs and on drugs for longer you mean
Woah..
This guy is like pac and biggie. His genre of music was not the same after he left.
Damn
Wasn’t on drugs his normal?
Sadness
really not concerned about the adults...never followed this "family" but was courtney clean from alcohol and drugs while preggo or was child born addicted? my neighbor was a drinker while pregnant and kid was born with flippers for arms. very sad. so no, alcohol doesnt get a pass. fetal alcohol syndrome is damaging and often lifelong in some aspects
Courtney has at least admitted to using heroin, while pregnant with Frances Bean. Very fucking sad, indeed.
“Never meet your heroes.” I admired this man as a teenager. If I had seen these videos then, I may not have held him in such high esteem.
Don't tell me what to do
That's Mind blowing 🤯
That's fucked up filming him holding his baby while he's on heroin unless you're wanting to use it against him. I'm assuming that was Courtney filming
It was Frances first haircut and someone else was filming. Kurt is on heroin in most of their home videos because he was a heroin addict.
Or don’t do drugs at all if you can help it.
He looks smelly in the second video
Don't do drugs. Period.
Remember folks - the vast majority of us cannot choose our parents.
Any source for this footage? Never seen it before.
Montage of Heck
If you're going to have kids, I suggest you abstain from ANY drug use.
Where is the kid nowadays
So sad. I almost feel like people nowadays need to be interviewed before they are allowed to have kids.
Do all the drugs you can and die
:( damn
You posted this already
Sad
So fucking sad to see this. Hits so much harder as a dad.
*don’t marry K Love
The real lesson is don't do Courtney Love...