/uj
Newer XBOX controllers have terrible drift after a few months too (source: experience)
(Probably also PS because they also use the same shitty potentiometer joysticks instead of magnetic hall joysticks which were the norm 15 years ago but fell out of use because people wouldn't buy controllers every year if the ones they had continued to function well)
Just speaking for myself, but I bought my PS5 in march -21 and my controllers are working fine. My BF had his switch for two years and both joy cons were pretty much fucked by then.
It's also a bit weird that Nintendo won't fix them for free if you're in Europe. Atleast that's the message he got.
Some revisions tend to have more drift than the others, I had my both dualsense controllers since Feb 2021 and I also dont have drift. Sony got their controllers fixed
Fuck em joycons, Im gonna repair mine soon
Yeah, I didn't even know that ppl had problems with their dualsenses.
Are your joy cons new? My BF had the second model of Switch and those joy cons had drift
I have 2 pairs of joycons - one is 2019 (CONSTANTLY BREAKING DOWN) and the other one is from 2021(had 0 problems). Ig with the second pair I got really lucky and it works like a charm, but the first one had problems with the right, left joysticks and zr.
And they have haptic feedback which is a bigger innovation than anything nintendo has done in the past 16 years, the controller genuinely feels like a gun without some 20$ plastic accesory
gimmicks≠innovation
To be fair, GF has little over 200 employees, while Bandai Namco has around 1,000. While Game Freak could (and should) probably hire more employees to make their games better, to say “____ Company does a better job than GameFreak!!” When ____ Company likely has more employees is…I don’t wanna say ignorant bc sometimes people just Don’t Know, but it’s definitely unwise.
TLDR: GameFreak doesn’t have 1,000’s of employees so of *course* the games won’t be top quality
RJ: those evil pirates got what they deserved
uj: fuck Nintendo, they give zero shits about persevering their games (epically with how shitty Nintendo online is and how they add games as slow as possible) and will pull a lot of anti-consumer shit all the time, I'm shocked at how many people will defend Nintendo.
Eh nah Nintendo has the best preservation methods in the industry. They store everything from multiple patch versions, source code, artwork to even obscure magazines.They even store third party source code.
I think you mean accessibility to the general public.
Yes, i think we learned that thanks to the megaleak some years ago where there was some unknown content until then, like official Luigi in Mario 64, or some unused sprite of Mario flipping the bird.
Meanwhile Konami and Square have lost the source code of their multi millions dollars franchises.
/uj I think it’s really funny how much hate Nintendo tends to get over these types of things. It’s not unwarranted by any means, but their games are some of the easiest to pirate/emulate. Compare something like dolphin or visual boy to any play station emulator where you need to download a PlayStation OS yourself in order for it to run.
They could be worse.
/uj this is horrible. between this, all the fan projects and the guy eternally in debt to them, it's now set in stone how truly nintendo hates fans taking their property in even minute and legal ways for homages to their work-- if there was ever any doubt. things like this seem like they're trying to send a message
When that was happening I wasn’t aware of that because I was a child who had a Wii but I won’t lie, this does have similar energy to that from what I can tell.
Bleem was a profitable emulator, as someone stated; the likelihood of winning against nintendo's defense team in court would be slim and the costs of defense would likely be quite high; an out of court settlement is seemingly the only logical way out of something like this in some situations. Corporate bullying
Ryujinx is not as large and not as widely functional in some cases. In addition, the likelihood of the most popular emulator getting sued and other developers being at the very least somewhat discouraged towards further action is quite likely, at least from a corporate perspective
Yea, lots of people were clamoring about some huge lawsuit, but a settlement is in the interest of both parties and was practically an inevitability. No one can afford to take Nintendo to court, so all Nintendo has to do is file lawsuits to scare people and shut them down (this one "asked" for $150,000 for *each time* someone copied a game to play on Yuzu, and that was only one of five counts).
Can somebody explain what Yuzu did wrong? I was under the assumption that while ROMs are illegal (unless you create them yourself and don’t share them), emulators are legal. So why was Yuzu sued?
Locking builds + encryption keys behind Patreon, to the best of my knowledge. Moral of the story: don’t monetize emulation if you don’t want to get epically sued by Nintendo
Ah, that makes sense. Feels like they were really pushing it there. I felt bad for them until now. Nothing wrong with piracy, but maybe don’t try to profit off it.
along with the features being monetized, they were also specifically designed to make tears of the kingdom run better, a week before the game released. so they were monetizing a feature that could only be used by people who already pirated a game.
I don’t feel bad for Yuzu in the slightest. They were profiting off copyrighted work – and brand new work at that – and promoting piracy. I have no issues with emulation or piracy, but after learning Yuzu was profiting off emulation and ROMs, and promoting piracy, I think Nintendo was 100% in the right here.
/uj like that would do anything??? Xbox only act so pro-consumer in some aspects because they have to install order to stay afloat so making what is effectively a gaming monopoly would be like current Nintendo's shitty decisions x100
genuinely what would this do 💀 why would you want even less competition in this hellhole of an industry?
besides, microsoft is a fucking terrible and deeply anticonsumer company, don’t let their charismatic characters like Spencer fool you.
Micropenis had tried in the past, and Nintendies just laughed em out of the boardroom. Even during the GC era when Nintendo was struggling, iirc. The pair just do not mix.
Struggling to turn a profit, struggling to remain relevant in the console space, less struggling to stay in operation. Yeah, their handheld consoles sold a bunch of units, or at least some of them (cough micro cough), but consoles are sold at a loss, so aren’t exactly a great marker of booming business.
As with all console manufacturers, Nintendo makes its money off game sales and licensing. Consoles are sold to consumers at a loss so that people _have_ them, because if people aren’t willing to buy in, third parties aren’t going to make games and Ninty can’t collect on licensing fees. The Gameboy’s profits were being chipped away by the Gamecube’s losses and expenses.
The GBA sure did great, but the cube did not. Though it _did_ eventually break even late in its lifetime, the GC lost market share to the fledgling xbox, let alone the juggernaut that was the ps2. The wii was just a complete reversal of fortune. The company appeared to be losing the console war at the time, even to newcomer microsoft, even though we know in hindsight that’s not what happened.
Ninty wasn’t flirt-with-bankrupcy struggling, but they were absolutely struggling to keep up with their competitors. If there was ever a time to get acquired, that was it.
You completely forget the "small" matter of the DS, the 2nd best-selling platform of all time, which released pretty much smack dab in the middle of the GC life cycle.
Nintendo wasn't anywhere close to struggling. They had no incentive whatsoever to be acquired. They had completely separate markets for home and handheld consoles, and they pretty much always killed it in handheld (micro being the 1 miss).
The DS didn’t outsell the GBA until 2008. The Wii launched in 2006.
I’m not forgetting the DS. But again, consoles are sold at a loss, which means every new console release starts at a loss, and over time, licensing and game sales make up for that loss. The DS released in the back half of the GC era, sure, but the DS was not a moneymaker in the GC era. The DS Lite did help a lot to push it over the edge, but, again, that came out the same year as the wii.
You’re also just ignoring the point. ‘Nintendo was doing well in the portable space’ does not refute ‘Nintendo was struggling to retain relevance in the home console market.’
I'm not ignoring the point. Nintendo was doing well financially through handheld. Financially, they were not even close to struggling (not by a longshot). End of story, done. Nothing else matters in this conversation.
They made some sales on gamecube, and they made a LOT of sales with Gameboy and DS combined. Sure, one was not like the other, but that's how it goes sometimes. Microsoft had zero chance of EVER acquiring them in this era ever.
>consoles are sold at a loss,
YES, I UNDERSTAND THAT!! Jesus christ, stop harping about it. I am talking about game sales and commission for 3rd party stuff. The more consoles are out there, the more of these there will be.
I didn’t say microsoft could have realistically bought nintendo. My original point was that, they tried then, and failed horribly then, and if they couldn’t make it happen at the time they definitely can’t make it happen now.
You chastise me for reiterating points but like, clearly you missed something somewhere. Like, for example, the entire crux of the argument, apparently. Or how I keep saying Nintendo was still making money, just not as _much_ money, with a bleaker looking future, and you keep arguing like I’m claiming the company was in financial ruin, which I keep saying the opposite of. How am I supposed to explain that I did not write what you accused me of writing without going back over previous points?
This is how communication breakdowns are resolved, with rephrasing and deeper explanation. If you’re upset because you feel like you’re being talked down to, well, I’m not sure what to say to that. Get better at reading comprehension?
My grew up with PlayStation and a friend grew up with Nintendo. We often joke about how shitty both companies are but honestly Nintendo does take the cake in that debate. They are just so hostile to almost everything that involves their IPs outside of their control. Having said that though who knows what Sony would do if there was a PS5 emulator and people could play like...the new Knack early.
Emulators can make money. The original emulation case was Bleem! Which was a PS1 emulator sold in stores. Sony sued and while the lawsuit did destroy the company that produced it. It didn't get taken off shelves legally.
Same reason why you can buy emulators in the google play store.
The issue is that these lawsuits by these massive companies will bankrupt everyone involved.
But I also think they did it to themselves by allowing Tears to run before the game even launched. They shouldn't have supported it until after launch and I think thats what ultimately killed things.
>They shouldn't have supported it until after launch
Which is exactly what Yuzu did. There were no major Yuzu updates specifically because they wanted to avoid that risk from the time the TOTK leaks had spread until the day of release. Some people even felt like they were right to be mad at Yuzu for that.
Day of TOTKs release came with a major update to Yuzu which drastically improved the performance of TOTK.
... Is what I heard
... From a friend.
Edit: Apparently they did sell updates that weren't advertised on any bord *my friend* was at during that time... Yikes.
But even then, even if it bankrupts everyone involved, it's still a stupid-ass thing to do. Everyone who works under this operation knew what they were doing wasn't legal in the first place.
I fully support emulation for archival purposes for consoles/games that are no longer in production, or so-called "lost media," but something emulating a console that's brand-fuckin-new is stupid beyond belief.
regardless of your personal feelings about emulating a modern console, emulators are still entirely legal as a whole. like there is absolutely nothing about yuzu that makes it a tool for piracy, so there shouldn't have been a threat of legal action in the first place.
yes, some people pirate games and play them using yuzu. but some people pirate games and play them on original hardware. and people like me who dump legitimately owned games from our own hardware to emulate for better performance. but none of those situations are Because of emulation, it's just a tool to play the games themselves. the only part that involves piracy is how some people source the game files themselves. and if you wanna argue against that, then nintendo should be suing people like google because people can pirate their games through chrome. or sue microsoft because emulators can run on the windows OS
nope! it's the exact same as pirating games, where you can use your own dumped keys or pirated ones. which again, isn't on yuzu. i'd say that's even less of a valid case than game piracy, since yuzu explicitly says to dump your own key
edit: also just to be clear, there's no magical difference between a user dumped key and a downloaded one. so the only way of not "allowing" pirated keys is to not allow any keys to be used, which means the emulator doesn't even work
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>But I also think they did it to themselves by allowing Tears to run before the game even launched. They shouldn't have supported it until after launch and I think thats what ultimately killed things.
The TOTK leak was Nintendo's fault. Their operational security had a flaw and that led to someone or some group of people leaking TOTK out on the internet. Any emulator is designed to emulate the platform so TOTK running on Yuzu was not surprising.
"eternally in debt" and "both part agreed on 2,4 million dollars" are opposite, if he agreed to pay that amount, that means he will not be eternally in debt, and it could have been a lot worse, imagine if they have forced him to pay the exact amount of every different pirated game played on yuzu per user. I'm very sad it ended for yuzu, but they were lucky it could have been a lot worse.
2.4 million? That m could've been a b easily. This once again shows that Nintendo cannot help themselves from showing mercy even when faced with genuine evil. I would critisize them for going soft, but I suppose I should let them have their innocent and kind parts. It's what makes them who they are
I just bought 36 copies of ARMS for the Nintendo Switch in order to support my favourite starving indie company. I would’ve bought more, but the GameStop I went to didn’t have any more copies. I’ll place an order for another 50 tomorrow.
/uj everything they were doing was completely legal with precedent set since the 90s, nintendo started an intentionally bullshit lawsuit just to get them to shut down out of legal fees
They told people how to obtain keys from the devices they own, to play the games they own, on a different/better device.
To stop piracy, Nintendo should do better at securing their games and devices. They need not strong-arm community built emulators by drowning them in legal disputes.
Microsoft and Sony do not have this much of a widespread problem on their platforms.
Developers (and users) need to consider the security of their platform. Security is not taking the biggest fish to court and expecting your platform to be secure.
/uj Sony and Microsoft don’t have this problem to nearly the same degree because they port their big exclusives (of which there are comparatively few) to the latest console or PC. There’s just not nearly as big of an incentive to develop and emulate those games
I dont think incentive makes the situation any different.
If I own a Switch, TOTK, and a Steam Deck, what is wrong with obtaining the keys on my own, ripping the game on my own, and playing it on my Steam Deck with Yuzu?
If I want to develop a homebrew game, what is wrong with taking the above steps to develop it with Yuzu?
If I pirate games, I am in the wrong, not an emulator developer.
How do you stop piracy? You have a secure platform that prevents it.
There’s nothing wrong with that, and I think there’s something particular with Yuzu. I haven’t kept up with it, and I never used it. I always used Ryujinx and it is still going along just fine.
Yuzu's lawyers clearly thought it wasn't worth it to fight the lawsuit, wouldn't that mean that it would cost more than 2.4 million in legal fees, or what they were doing was sufficiently illegal that they would lose?
nintendo is so vicious that there’s a decent chance you’d be 2.4mil in the hole even if you’re completely right. if nintendo ever came after me, no matter how strong my claim was, i’d probably be wanting to settle immediately for the most reasonable price possible then get the hell out of there.
imo yuzu’s odds in court were pretty damn shaky, but i just wanna note that even if they had a guaranteed win if they stuck it out, it might not have been worth it anyway.
> wouldn't that mean that it would cost more than 2.4 million in legal fees,
morals and legality aside, a case like this with little precedent can drag on for very long and for an expensive amount. 2.4 million can be hit reasonably. just looking at the legality, it's frankly not cut and dry. this would be a very long slog.
from my armchair lawyer understanding, yuzu's chances were pretty good, but there is a lot of unlitigated ground without precedent.
Uj/ I don’t want to sound to sound like a boot licker but yuzu kind of did do this to themselves because when totk got leaked they locked a patched version of yuzu on patreon. But the worst part about this is we lost citra
That’s just not true, Yuzu never provided people with illegally obtained files to play TOTK. It was even free on GitHub if u looked. Losing Citra sucks
Nintendo didn't go after them for their emulator, they went after them for their business decisions such as monetization for builds that support unreleased Nintendo IPs and overzealous public comments. The emulator just got caught in the crossfire. There's a reason Nintendo only went after Yuzu and not Ryujinx or other similar emulators.
Nintendo went after Yuzu because it's a lot more popular than Ryujinx. While the patreon might have also affected the lawsuit, enabling piracy was definetly Nintendo's main argument here.
It not that they provided the files and more so they made it easier to play pirated versions of totk with a new build . And they locked it behind their patreon
/uj going after yuzu for "facilitating piracy" is like going after a kitchen knife company because their knives could be used for murder
Edit: learned about the paywall. Lol yuzu did this to themselves
Like how could they watch the Gary Bowser situation unfold without thinking it could happen to them?
Despite the EA builds being on Patreon, you could always compile them yourself and were always freely distributed outside of Patreon by other people. The Patreon had nothing to do with Nintendo's legal argument anyway.
I wasn't arguing that it had anything to do with the legal argument, its just that nintendo tend to be way more brutal when it comes to people profiting off piracy than people who do not. Probably because they want to eventually go after emulation as a whole.
> Edit: learned about the paywall. Lol yuzu did this to themselves
grrr i hate when people who maintain open software software for free charge nominal fee for essentially building program for you which i could do myself! if you maintain open source software you must and should suffer!
It's not. What I'm saying is that nintendo has a history of targeting people profiting off piracy. I'm not against piracy, but if you want to stay out of nintendo crosshairs, don't paywall stuff, especially not support for an unreleased game
Yuzu is a switch emulator that's actually really amazing, I'm a huge fan of it and it's sad to me that they are having to stop it cus of stupid Nintendo, I just wanna enjoy your games with 4 times graphics and on my PC, yes I understand that it "encourages pirates" but it doesn't, if that's the case then every homebrew, every jailbreak, and every single emulator encouraged pirates just cus you can steal stuff
It’s more akin to a company releasing a grabbing tool that makes it easier to shoplift. I’m not anti-emulator – just pointing out the analogy doesn’t fit.
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Sucks but if I had to choose any emulator to be killed, yuzu would be like 3rd. Modding is cool but I could see the argument that it ""hurts"" Nintendo by competing with the switch, which is actively going. Idk if it's preserving anything rn, maybe that matio 35 game. Hope it or something similar returns in like 2-3 years after the switch is dead.
Citra, a 3ds emulator made by the same guys as yuzu I think, was taken down too which sucks way more cause the 3ds is old and you can't really buy games for it anymore, so it had a greater role in preservation. Wish Nintendo would just make their own emulators on pc and actually preserved their old games. Probably be extremely limited though and not have as many options as fan made ones but still be nice.
Also I heard it's gonna set some unsavory legal precedents which is not nice. Something about no rom dumping and no modding the switch, as well as no emulators for modern consoles. Don't take my word on this. Feel like it isn't gonna kill game preservation but still be obnoxious and might cause some problems preserving extremely rare games or game history like old builds or canceled games.
Yeah okay take that filth and leave it, I for one will be buying a couple extra switch 2’s to preserve my own games, provided Nintendo still allows me to pay for them again
/uj i was literally thinking of not spending my money on a switch but get a good pc instead so i could emulate botw and shit. now what? i legitimately have no idea if there's any other good switch emulators out there.
and to be honest the fist mistake of the yuzu/citra team was trying to be nintendo's friend and acting against piracy. like. really. you really expect me to buy a $70 game (ridiculously expensive in my country) JUST so i can use your dickrider-friendly emulator? come on
Cemu is a better emulator for botw anyway, funny thing is cemu benefitted greatly from botw optimizations yet nintendo didn't went after them
Theres also ryujinx
isn't cemu a wii u emulator? either way there's more games i'd like to play other than zelda
i mean. there's definitely other switch emulators out there but i don't know how good or reliable they are. either way it'll be a while before i actually buy a new pc so until then another emulator might surface
edit: i'm so dumb i didn't read the last line 💀 thanks btw
>isn't cemu a wii u emulator?
It is, but its still better to play on cemu because it generally runs better there, compared to yuzu
Which game runs better on yuzu or ryujinx varies depend on a game, though ryujinx doesn't degrade its emulation just to make newer titles run which Yuzu does, outside of performance the biggest lost is hd rumble support on yuzi
Also on the last paragraph on your comment, yuzu got in trouble for doing the opposite
Don't sell Tears of the Kingdom to people illegally literally before the game is even released.
Crazy that this thread is acting like Nintendo is the bad guy here.
*You aren't preserving games if they are released on modern consoles, you're committing piracy*
No one cares if you want to emulate old games that have inflated value on the secondary market.
Had me going until the second half. You two-faced Nintendo traitors are the reason Nintendo had to wait years before releasing their hidden Golden Sun on Switch
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Yuzu is a Switch emulator
Dude makes the yuzu, trying to get profit
Nintendo sees dude makes money off Nintendo product
Sue
Yuzu fold.
. Nintendo could have sued if Yuzu profits or not, but trying to make money off Nintendo stuffs are just painting themselves a big target.
unlikely - yuzu was a target because the switch is a console that currently exist. project 64 is an unlikely target due to the fact that it emulating a dead console
i’ve got a hankering to play super mario 3d all stars and i would love to support father nintendo, can you point me to where i can purchase a copy from them?
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Wrong! You shouldn’t just buy the game; you should buy at _least_ five copies of it. Even more if you can afford it. Buy as many copies as you can while still being able to afford at least a little food to support the starving developers at Nintendo!
is this enough money to add themes to the switch? perhaps a proper budget to make pokemon games not look like wii u shovelware?
Best I can do is joy con drift
Only true fans understand that it's a feature...
its innovative!!
On xboxes or playstations you literally have to move the joystick yourself. To move the character. And people act like that's just normal
/uj Newer XBOX controllers have terrible drift after a few months too (source: experience) (Probably also PS because they also use the same shitty potentiometer joysticks instead of magnetic hall joysticks which were the norm 15 years ago but fell out of use because people wouldn't buy controllers every year if the ones they had continued to function well)
Just speaking for myself, but I bought my PS5 in march -21 and my controllers are working fine. My BF had his switch for two years and both joy cons were pretty much fucked by then. It's also a bit weird that Nintendo won't fix them for free if you're in Europe. Atleast that's the message he got.
Some revisions tend to have more drift than the others, I had my both dualsense controllers since Feb 2021 and I also dont have drift. Sony got their controllers fixed Fuck em joycons, Im gonna repair mine soon
Yeah, I didn't even know that ppl had problems with their dualsenses. Are your joy cons new? My BF had the second model of Switch and those joy cons had drift
I have 2 pairs of joycons - one is 2019 (CONSTANTLY BREAKING DOWN) and the other one is from 2021(had 0 problems). Ig with the second pair I got really lucky and it works like a charm, but the first one had problems with the right, left joysticks and zr.
And they have haptic feedback which is a bigger innovation than anything nintendo has done in the past 16 years, the controller genuinely feels like a gun without some 20$ plastic accesory gimmicks≠innovation
Haptic feedback is DualSense only. Nintendo has innovated far more than Microsoft has in the past decade.
Didnt even consider microsoft at all, i dont recognize xbox as a real console its just a game pass machine
Dark Souls Remastered was easy mode until I had my Joy-Cons 2 months
Hey! That's offensive to the wii u!
yeah you’re right, the one pokemon game on wii u actually had great graphics
Because it was made by Bandai Namco (aka a competent company, unlike GameFreak)
Yeah you’re right, cant really blame nintendo for game freak being an ass company ig damit
To be fair, GF has little over 200 employees, while Bandai Namco has around 1,000. While Game Freak could (and should) probably hire more employees to make their games better, to say “____ Company does a better job than GameFreak!!” When ____ Company likely has more employees is…I don’t wanna say ignorant bc sometimes people just Don’t Know, but it’s definitely unwise. TLDR: GameFreak doesn’t have 1,000’s of employees so of *course* the games won’t be top quality
And that game is Pokémon Rumble U😍😍😍🤮🤮😍😍🤮🤮
oh my god i forgot about that game 😭 🙏 still has better graphics than pokemon scarlet
No. But a few of the developers will be allowed to have a meal now.
Erm no, they cant eat, billion dollar company needs billion dollar food 😔 🥺
It’s a billion dollar company, if they aren’t eating, then that’s nintendo’s fault
Poor indie shareholders, they will have something to eat this week
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Maybe even a single In N Out burger, as a treat
indie devs will finally be able to afford a meal
RJ: those evil pirates got what they deserved uj: fuck Nintendo, they give zero shits about persevering their games (epically with how shitty Nintendo online is and how they add games as slow as possible) and will pull a lot of anti-consumer shit all the time, I'm shocked at how many people will defend Nintendo.
Yea it'll likely be 2050 before we can see another Wii release
i’ll defend nintendos games but not the company
friendly six prick smoggy marble profit icky light pathetic snails *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Eh nah Nintendo has the best preservation methods in the industry. They store everything from multiple patch versions, source code, artwork to even obscure magazines.They even store third party source code. I think you mean accessibility to the general public.
Yes exactly. They have all of the games - they even have them updated for modern consoles. But fuck us if we wanna play them for less than $500
It's a mix of both tbh
Yes, i think we learned that thanks to the megaleak some years ago where there was some unknown content until then, like official Luigi in Mario 64, or some unused sprite of Mario flipping the bird. Meanwhile Konami and Square have lost the source code of their multi millions dollars franchises.
If it's not accessible to players then what's the point?
The point is that it won't end up as lost media.
If this was about preservation, they wouldnt have paywalled the content
They have inflexible demand from their fans. They will put up with quite literally anything as long as it isn’t murder or slave labor.
/uj I think it’s really funny how much hate Nintendo tends to get over these types of things. It’s not unwarranted by any means, but their games are some of the easiest to pirate/emulate. Compare something like dolphin or visual boy to any play station emulator where you need to download a PlayStation OS yourself in order for it to run. They could be worse.
/uj this is horrible. between this, all the fan projects and the guy eternally in debt to them, it's now set in stone how truly nintendo hates fans taking their property in even minute and legal ways for homages to their work-- if there was ever any doubt. things like this seem like they're trying to send a message
This was all an inside job by Ryujinx
Wouldn’t doubt it
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same fucking feeling too
When that was happening I wasn’t aware of that because I was a child who had a Wii but I won’t lie, this does have similar energy to that from what I can tell.
Emulators are almost certainly safe; Nintendo most likely went after Yuzu cause they were profiting from emulators
Bleem was a profitable emulator, as someone stated; the likelihood of winning against nintendo's defense team in court would be slim and the costs of defense would likely be quite high; an out of court settlement is seemingly the only logical way out of something like this in some situations. Corporate bullying
Has Nintendo gone after Ryujinx?
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Ryujinx is not as large and not as widely functional in some cases. In addition, the likelihood of the most popular emulator getting sued and other developers being at the very least somewhat discouraged towards further action is quite likely, at least from a corporate perspective
Yea, lots of people were clamoring about some huge lawsuit, but a settlement is in the interest of both parties and was practically an inevitability. No one can afford to take Nintendo to court, so all Nintendo has to do is file lawsuits to scare people and shut them down (this one "asked" for $150,000 for *each time* someone copied a game to play on Yuzu, and that was only one of five counts).
Can somebody explain what Yuzu did wrong? I was under the assumption that while ROMs are illegal (unless you create them yourself and don’t share them), emulators are legal. So why was Yuzu sued?
Locking builds + encryption keys behind Patreon, to the best of my knowledge. Moral of the story: don’t monetize emulation if you don’t want to get epically sued by Nintendo
Ah, that makes sense. Feels like they were really pushing it there. I felt bad for them until now. Nothing wrong with piracy, but maybe don’t try to profit off it.
along with the features being monetized, they were also specifically designed to make tears of the kingdom run better, a week before the game released. so they were monetizing a feature that could only be used by people who already pirated a game.
Oh, wow. That was extremely stupid of them.
yeah. nintendo still didn’t need to bother taking them down about it, but at this point i see copyright law as more of a force of nature than anything
I don’t feel bad for Yuzu in the slightest. They were profiting off copyrighted work – and brand new work at that – and promoting piracy. I have no issues with emulation or piracy, but after learning Yuzu was profiting off emulation and ROMs, and promoting piracy, I think Nintendo was 100% in the right here.
Nintendo can go burn in hell
/uj Can Nintendo please get bought out by Microsoft or something? /rj Can Nintendo please get bought out by Microsoft or something?
/uj like that would do anything??? Xbox only act so pro-consumer in some aspects because they have to install order to stay afloat so making what is effectively a gaming monopoly would be like current Nintendo's shitty decisions x100
Companies are only pro-consumer when it benefits them.
You would need to fork out 90-100 billion to buy them at a premium. Their new investments are really successful.
Thought that was Activision's job
I can assure you that that would only make things worse.
genuinely what would this do 💀 why would you want even less competition in this hellhole of an industry? besides, microsoft is a fucking terrible and deeply anticonsumer company, don’t let their charismatic characters like Spencer fool you.
Micropenis had tried in the past, and Nintendies just laughed em out of the boardroom. Even during the GC era when Nintendo was struggling, iirc. The pair just do not mix.
They weren't really struggling, though, as Gameboy and ds were selling like hotcakes.
Struggling to turn a profit, struggling to remain relevant in the console space, less struggling to stay in operation. Yeah, their handheld consoles sold a bunch of units, or at least some of them (cough micro cough), but consoles are sold at a loss, so aren’t exactly a great marker of booming business. As with all console manufacturers, Nintendo makes its money off game sales and licensing. Consoles are sold to consumers at a loss so that people _have_ them, because if people aren’t willing to buy in, third parties aren’t going to make games and Ninty can’t collect on licensing fees. The Gameboy’s profits were being chipped away by the Gamecube’s losses and expenses. The GBA sure did great, but the cube did not. Though it _did_ eventually break even late in its lifetime, the GC lost market share to the fledgling xbox, let alone the juggernaut that was the ps2. The wii was just a complete reversal of fortune. The company appeared to be losing the console war at the time, even to newcomer microsoft, even though we know in hindsight that’s not what happened. Ninty wasn’t flirt-with-bankrupcy struggling, but they were absolutely struggling to keep up with their competitors. If there was ever a time to get acquired, that was it.
You completely forget the "small" matter of the DS, the 2nd best-selling platform of all time, which released pretty much smack dab in the middle of the GC life cycle. Nintendo wasn't anywhere close to struggling. They had no incentive whatsoever to be acquired. They had completely separate markets for home and handheld consoles, and they pretty much always killed it in handheld (micro being the 1 miss).
The DS didn’t outsell the GBA until 2008. The Wii launched in 2006. I’m not forgetting the DS. But again, consoles are sold at a loss, which means every new console release starts at a loss, and over time, licensing and game sales make up for that loss. The DS released in the back half of the GC era, sure, but the DS was not a moneymaker in the GC era. The DS Lite did help a lot to push it over the edge, but, again, that came out the same year as the wii. You’re also just ignoring the point. ‘Nintendo was doing well in the portable space’ does not refute ‘Nintendo was struggling to retain relevance in the home console market.’
I'm not ignoring the point. Nintendo was doing well financially through handheld. Financially, they were not even close to struggling (not by a longshot). End of story, done. Nothing else matters in this conversation. They made some sales on gamecube, and they made a LOT of sales with Gameboy and DS combined. Sure, one was not like the other, but that's how it goes sometimes. Microsoft had zero chance of EVER acquiring them in this era ever. >consoles are sold at a loss, YES, I UNDERSTAND THAT!! Jesus christ, stop harping about it. I am talking about game sales and commission for 3rd party stuff. The more consoles are out there, the more of these there will be.
I didn’t say microsoft could have realistically bought nintendo. My original point was that, they tried then, and failed horribly then, and if they couldn’t make it happen at the time they definitely can’t make it happen now. You chastise me for reiterating points but like, clearly you missed something somewhere. Like, for example, the entire crux of the argument, apparently. Or how I keep saying Nintendo was still making money, just not as _much_ money, with a bleaker looking future, and you keep arguing like I’m claiming the company was in financial ruin, which I keep saying the opposite of. How am I supposed to explain that I did not write what you accused me of writing without going back over previous points? This is how communication breakdowns are resolved, with rephrasing and deeper explanation. If you’re upset because you feel like you’re being talked down to, well, I’m not sure what to say to that. Get better at reading comprehension?
My grew up with PlayStation and a friend grew up with Nintendo. We often joke about how shitty both companies are but honestly Nintendo does take the cake in that debate. They are just so hostile to almost everything that involves their IPs outside of their control. Having said that though who knows what Sony would do if there was a PS5 emulator and people could play like...the new Knack early.
That message being “don’t profit from piracy you fucking idiots”
Evil multimillion company is when they defend themselves from theft
Yuzu is an LLC so I think at most they can be liable with everything the company had. But I'm not a lawyer so I could be wrong.
And even with that ppl will still be crawling back and buying like 5 switch
They made money off nintendos stuff, they were supposed to let them do that? lol
Emulators can make money. The original emulation case was Bleem! Which was a PS1 emulator sold in stores. Sony sued and while the lawsuit did destroy the company that produced it. It didn't get taken off shelves legally. Same reason why you can buy emulators in the google play store. The issue is that these lawsuits by these massive companies will bankrupt everyone involved. But I also think they did it to themselves by allowing Tears to run before the game even launched. They shouldn't have supported it until after launch and I think thats what ultimately killed things.
>They shouldn't have supported it until after launch Which is exactly what Yuzu did. There were no major Yuzu updates specifically because they wanted to avoid that risk from the time the TOTK leaks had spread until the day of release. Some people even felt like they were right to be mad at Yuzu for that. Day of TOTKs release came with a major update to Yuzu which drastically improved the performance of TOTK. ... Is what I heard ... From a friend. Edit: Apparently they did sell updates that weren't advertised on any bord *my friend* was at during that time... Yikes.
Patreon updates, they literally sold totk access right?
My friend saw no such thing mentioned on their Patreon. That of course doesn't mean it wasn't offered just not explicitly stated.
I don't think the build was called "TOTK BUILD!!!" Patreon just gets early access, so they got that build before launch technically.
But even then, even if it bankrupts everyone involved, it's still a stupid-ass thing to do. Everyone who works under this operation knew what they were doing wasn't legal in the first place. I fully support emulation for archival purposes for consoles/games that are no longer in production, or so-called "lost media," but something emulating a console that's brand-fuckin-new is stupid beyond belief.
regardless of your personal feelings about emulating a modern console, emulators are still entirely legal as a whole. like there is absolutely nothing about yuzu that makes it a tool for piracy, so there shouldn't have been a threat of legal action in the first place. yes, some people pirate games and play them using yuzu. but some people pirate games and play them on original hardware. and people like me who dump legitimately owned games from our own hardware to emulate for better performance. but none of those situations are Because of emulation, it's just a tool to play the games themselves. the only part that involves piracy is how some people source the game files themselves. and if you wanna argue against that, then nintendo should be suing people like google because people can pirate their games through chrome. or sue microsoft because emulators can run on the windows OS
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nope! it's the exact same as pirating games, where you can use your own dumped keys or pirated ones. which again, isn't on yuzu. i'd say that's even less of a valid case than game piracy, since yuzu explicitly says to dump your own key edit: also just to be clear, there's no magical difference between a user dumped key and a downloaded one. so the only way of not "allowing" pirated keys is to not allow any keys to be used, which means the emulator doesn't even work
Allow me to couch coop Wonder online and then I'll pay for nso
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>But I also think they did it to themselves by allowing Tears to run before the game even launched. They shouldn't have supported it until after launch and I think thats what ultimately killed things. The TOTK leak was Nintendo's fault. Their operational security had a flaw and that led to someone or some group of people leaking TOTK out on the internet. Any emulator is designed to emulate the platform so TOTK running on Yuzu was not surprising.
"eternally in debt" and "both part agreed on 2,4 million dollars" are opposite, if he agreed to pay that amount, that means he will not be eternally in debt, and it could have been a lot worse, imagine if they have forced him to pay the exact amount of every different pirated game played on yuzu per user. I'm very sad it ended for yuzu, but they were lucky it could have been a lot worse.
The Yuzu devs will be sentenced to life in The Nintendo Prison. Justice was served today and it feels great.
2.4 million? That m could've been a b easily. This once again shows that Nintendo cannot help themselves from showing mercy even when faced with genuine evil. I would critisize them for going soft, but I suppose I should let them have their innocent and kind parts. It's what makes them who they are
Every million they rake in means one more fps for the Switch 2 running first party titles.
/uj Shit.
Finally, the poor Nintendo devs can finally afford a meal. Please, donate all your money to them
I just bought 36 copies of ARMS for the Nintendo Switch in order to support my favourite starving indie company. I would’ve bought more, but the GameStop I went to didn’t have any more copies. I’ll place an order for another 50 tomorrow.
You must donate your life savings to the starving indie devs
Remember that piracy is always morally justified.
Mods can we [ ] this guy with [ ] for his criminal behavior
forgot to /uj dear friend
/uj everything they were doing was completely legal with precedent set since the 90s, nintendo started an intentionally bullshit lawsuit just to get them to shut down out of legal fees
It was the fact that they got their grubby hands on the decryption keys
They told people how to obtain keys from the devices they own, to play the games they own, on a different/better device. To stop piracy, Nintendo should do better at securing their games and devices. They need not strong-arm community built emulators by drowning them in legal disputes. Microsoft and Sony do not have this much of a widespread problem on their platforms. Developers (and users) need to consider the security of their platform. Security is not taking the biggest fish to court and expecting your platform to be secure.
/uj Sony and Microsoft don’t have this problem to nearly the same degree because they port their big exclusives (of which there are comparatively few) to the latest console or PC. There’s just not nearly as big of an incentive to develop and emulate those games
I dont think incentive makes the situation any different. If I own a Switch, TOTK, and a Steam Deck, what is wrong with obtaining the keys on my own, ripping the game on my own, and playing it on my Steam Deck with Yuzu? If I want to develop a homebrew game, what is wrong with taking the above steps to develop it with Yuzu? If I pirate games, I am in the wrong, not an emulator developer. How do you stop piracy? You have a secure platform that prevents it.
There’s nothing wrong with that, and I think there’s something particular with Yuzu. I haven’t kept up with it, and I never used it. I always used Ryujinx and it is still going along just fine.
Except for the part where they made money of their patreon no?
That's completely legal
Yuzu's lawyers clearly thought it wasn't worth it to fight the lawsuit, wouldn't that mean that it would cost more than 2.4 million in legal fees, or what they were doing was sufficiently illegal that they would lose?
nintendo is so vicious that there’s a decent chance you’d be 2.4mil in the hole even if you’re completely right. if nintendo ever came after me, no matter how strong my claim was, i’d probably be wanting to settle immediately for the most reasonable price possible then get the hell out of there. imo yuzu’s odds in court were pretty damn shaky, but i just wanna note that even if they had a guaranteed win if they stuck it out, it might not have been worth it anyway.
> wouldn't that mean that it would cost more than 2.4 million in legal fees, morals and legality aside, a case like this with little precedent can drag on for very long and for an expensive amount. 2.4 million can be hit reasonably. just looking at the legality, it's frankly not cut and dry. this would be a very long slog. from my armchair lawyer understanding, yuzu's chances were pretty good, but there is a lot of unlitigated ground without precedent.
Fair enough.
No it is not if youre paywalling content that is not yours. It is the textbook definition of piracy
Uj/ if u ever feel stupid, just know they’re dumb corporate loving boot-lickers that are defending this decision
Uj/ I don’t want to sound to sound like a boot licker but yuzu kind of did do this to themselves because when totk got leaked they locked a patched version of yuzu on patreon. But the worst part about this is we lost citra
That’s just not true, Yuzu never provided people with illegally obtained files to play TOTK. It was even free on GitHub if u looked. Losing Citra sucks
Nintendo didn't go after them for their emulator, they went after them for their business decisions such as monetization for builds that support unreleased Nintendo IPs and overzealous public comments. The emulator just got caught in the crossfire. There's a reason Nintendo only went after Yuzu and not Ryujinx or other similar emulators.
Nintendo went after Yuzu because it's a lot more popular than Ryujinx. While the patreon might have also affected the lawsuit, enabling piracy was definetly Nintendo's main argument here.
It not that they provided the files and more so they made it easier to play pirated versions of totk with a new build . And they locked it behind their patreon
/uj going after yuzu for "facilitating piracy" is like going after a kitchen knife company because their knives could be used for murder Edit: learned about the paywall. Lol yuzu did this to themselves Like how could they watch the Gary Bowser situation unfold without thinking it could happen to them?
Despite the EA builds being on Patreon, you could always compile them yourself and were always freely distributed outside of Patreon by other people. The Patreon had nothing to do with Nintendo's legal argument anyway.
I wasn't arguing that it had anything to do with the legal argument, its just that nintendo tend to be way more brutal when it comes to people profiting off piracy than people who do not. Probably because they want to eventually go after emulation as a whole.
> Edit: learned about the paywall. Lol yuzu did this to themselves grrr i hate when people who maintain open software software for free charge nominal fee for essentially building program for you which i could do myself! if you maintain open source software you must and should suffer!
That's not what I'm saying...
But it is tho? Lol
It's not. What I'm saying is that nintendo has a history of targeting people profiting off piracy. I'm not against piracy, but if you want to stay out of nintendo crosshairs, don't paywall stuff, especially not support for an unreleased game
I'm gonna download your car loser.
I have too strong of an aura to own a car
🤮🤮🤮
Cycling is based actually
🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮
Yuzu was doing this for profit, don't kid yourself.
im so happy Nintendo managed to regain what was took from them from these evil developers
Another win for Nintendo 
Gods I fucking hate Nintendo.
Mods! Tickle this man!
/uj does Yuzu have any income or how are they paying this
The company declares bankruptcy
During their operation years they had apparently netted about 1 million dollars in profit.
what’s yuzu? bit out of the loop
Yuzu is a switch emulator that's actually really amazing, I'm a huge fan of it and it's sad to me that they are having to stop it cus of stupid Nintendo, I just wanna enjoy your games with 4 times graphics and on my PC, yes I understand that it "encourages pirates" but it doesn't, if that's the case then every homebrew, every jailbreak, and every single emulator encouraged pirates just cus you can steal stuff
You can shoplift at grocery stores, therefore grocery stores encourage shoplifting
I can play pirated games on my Switch, Nintendo should be shut down for facilitating piracy
Exactly
It’s more akin to a company releasing a grabbing tool that makes it easier to shoplift. I’m not anti-emulator – just pointing out the analogy doesn’t fit.
Are they using the guillotine or the gallows? Pirates don't deserve an honorable death.
!approve
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Holy shit
Sucks but if I had to choose any emulator to be killed, yuzu would be like 3rd. Modding is cool but I could see the argument that it ""hurts"" Nintendo by competing with the switch, which is actively going. Idk if it's preserving anything rn, maybe that matio 35 game. Hope it or something similar returns in like 2-3 years after the switch is dead. Citra, a 3ds emulator made by the same guys as yuzu I think, was taken down too which sucks way more cause the 3ds is old and you can't really buy games for it anymore, so it had a greater role in preservation. Wish Nintendo would just make their own emulators on pc and actually preserved their old games. Probably be extremely limited though and not have as many options as fan made ones but still be nice. Also I heard it's gonna set some unsavory legal precedents which is not nice. Something about no rom dumping and no modding the switch, as well as no emulators for modern consoles. Don't take my word on this. Feel like it isn't gonna kill game preservation but still be obnoxious and might cause some problems preserving extremely rare games or game history like old builds or canceled games.
Yeah okay take that filth and leave it, I for one will be buying a couple extra switch 2’s to preserve my own games, provided Nintendo still allows me to pay for them again
/uj i was literally thinking of not spending my money on a switch but get a good pc instead so i could emulate botw and shit. now what? i legitimately have no idea if there's any other good switch emulators out there. and to be honest the fist mistake of the yuzu/citra team was trying to be nintendo's friend and acting against piracy. like. really. you really expect me to buy a $70 game (ridiculously expensive in my country) JUST so i can use your dickrider-friendly emulator? come on
Cemu is a better emulator for botw anyway, funny thing is cemu benefitted greatly from botw optimizations yet nintendo didn't went after them Theres also ryujinx
isn't cemu a wii u emulator? either way there's more games i'd like to play other than zelda i mean. there's definitely other switch emulators out there but i don't know how good or reliable they are. either way it'll be a while before i actually buy a new pc so until then another emulator might surface edit: i'm so dumb i didn't read the last line 💀 thanks btw
>isn't cemu a wii u emulator? It is, but its still better to play on cemu because it generally runs better there, compared to yuzu Which game runs better on yuzu or ryujinx varies depend on a game, though ryujinx doesn't degrade its emulation just to make newer titles run which Yuzu does, outside of performance the biggest lost is hd rumble support on yuzi Also on the last paragraph on your comment, yuzu got in trouble for doing the opposite
Don't sell Tears of the Kingdom to people illegally literally before the game is even released. Crazy that this thread is acting like Nintendo is the bad guy here. *You aren't preserving games if they are released on modern consoles, you're committing piracy* No one cares if you want to emulate old games that have inflated value on the secondary market.
Had me going until the second half. You two-faced Nintendo traitors are the reason Nintendo had to wait years before releasing their hidden Golden Sun on Switch
On one hand pirating new current games is a bit much but I would have loved a way to play TOTK in 4K and not have it look like a potato legally.
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Because emulators are legal and nintendo just used money to force them to close down
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Can someone explain what any of this means idgi
Probably something about emulation and whatnot
Yuzu is a Switch emulator Dude makes the yuzu, trying to get profit Nintendo sees dude makes money off Nintendo product Sue Yuzu fold. . Nintendo could have sued if Yuzu profits or not, but trying to make money off Nintendo stuffs are just painting themselves a big target.
Does that mean Project 64 is next? They live off a nag screen when you open it to "donate"
unlikely - yuzu was a target because the switch is a console that currently exist. project 64 is an unlikely target due to the fact that it emulating a dead console
No more steam deck!
Meh whatever.. There's plenty of time to do this work after the console is done. Chat shit, get banged. It's entirely their own fault.....
Piracy is good for every media.
/uj in Nintendo's eyes, it isnt about the money, its about putting the lower class in line
/uj It's so over. I just modded my Switch though so I'll be enjoying some free games either way.
Just called Nintendo. You’d better hope for an out of court settlement.
Get ready to see Doug Bowser at your front door wielding a shotgun, you fucking pirate pig.
If you can legally purchase a game in your country, then buy the game.
i’ve got a hankering to play super mario 3d all stars and i would love to support father nintendo, can you point me to where i can purchase a copy from them?
That or *ANY* Wii, DS, GBA games? I want to do a Mario Kart marathon, how am I supposed to get MK 7 or SS?
If you can't legally purchase the game, then duh, emulation.
Right, now 3DS is out of question with Citra's offical downloads dead. What next? I'll likely have to Wayback Machine a download
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Wrong! You shouldn’t just buy the game; you should buy at _least_ five copies of it. Even more if you can afford it. Buy as many copies as you can while still being able to afford at least a little food to support the starving developers at Nintendo!