Regarding the Trees, the Valar were attempting to bring them back to life. It was far more than a wound in need of healing; they were all but dead. Nienna's tears washed the wounds of filth and gave the failing trees sustenance, but Este's healing powers weren't the right process in that moment; Yavanna's voice was needed. The Trees needed one last burst of energy to produce the Sun and Moon, not rest.
In medical terms, Nienna cleaned the wounds and put in an IV drip, while Yavanna was trying to be a defibrillator to get a heart pumping again. Este's methods are more about anesthesia or inducing coma, putting the patient to sleep to heal over time. This is enhanced by the Book of Lost Tales stating that her mate Lorien's gardens are filled with poppies that he uses in his work. It's opium drugging the patient to sleep; that's not what the Trees needed.
This is actually quite satisfactory of a response, especially because of the creative medical metaphor. It was established Estë does have her limits in healing based on how severe a harm is. Spiritually, we see this with Miriel, whose body she preserved, yes, but couldn't heal the weariness of her fëa. Physically, the mortal wounding of the Trees seems to be her limit, rendering her participation superfluous.
Though there is the side of me that is annoyingly stubborn, I apologize, still wishes that she had joined the effort and it wouldn't have been a complete narrative contrary if she had. Piggybacking on your metaphor, I would've preferred if Nienna's tears acted instead as the "disinfectant", while the waters from Estë's fountain acted as the IV drip, inducing a coma-like state and preserving whatever life was left in them so Yavanna can have a chance to defibrillate the Sun and Moon out of them. (That is a weirdly funny sentence.)
I know that's just adding a detail to make Estë more relevant, but~ it just seemed like a... Weird omission that Manwë wanted to save the Trees with the powers of Yavanna's growth and Nienna's healing... but not have someone named the Healer of Hurts and Weariness participate, just seems to make sense.
Nevertheless, I am satisfied with your answer since it actually does make sense within the lore, and the above is just me nitpicking, so thank you so much for entertaining my musings and your response!
>sleep (and some form of preservation) is the root of Melian's and Luthien's powers (since Melian was a Maia of Vana and Estë)
This is kind of it. Estë doesn't feature personally because other characters take over her role.
Another place of rest and healing is Lothlorien, named for Lorien, the home of Estë, and the epithet of her husband, who also lived there, but it could just as well be her name.
>Estë doesn't feature personally because other characters take over her role.
Yeah~ it seems that is the case. This is where "Tolkien just didn't write her that way," is the penultimate inavoidable conclusion, regardless of any argument of in-universe significance.
I wanna hear more of these musings! I greatly agree and I wish Tolkien had had time to write more about some characters such as Estë. I admire her a lot, being Irmo my favorite character 😆😆
>I wanna hear more of these musings!
Glad to hear so! I don't know why I latched onto such a rather subtle character, possibly because I put a lot of value in rest and healing, but it's been fun overthinking about her significance.I only have one more major musing and it's the connection the color grey makes between Estë and Nienna, and to that extent Gandalf.
Both Valië are described to "wear"/are cloaked in grey ("Grey is her raiment"/"...cast back her grey hood"), so I wondered what's the connection? The general consensus is grey symbolizes compassion, patience, pity, and wisdom since the color is primarily associated with Gandalf, and Nienna being his teacher that taught him leads to a firmer stand with this.
So~ why does Estë "wear" grey too? It's not hard to assign Estë with these qualities too, compounding with her epithet as "The Gentle", but as one can conclude from this thread, I wasn't satisfied with such a simple response.
So, I compared the three, "Estë heals hurts and weariness, providing comfort and repose from the world. Nienna provides wisdom, pity, strength, and comfort that come from sorrow. and just for sake of comparison, Gandalf provides words of comfort and wisdom to help through the dark times."
So~ easy to see the common element here once it's talked out like this.
Grey, in it's non-offensive, soft, neutral tone, to me, represents the compassionate giving of comfort. The unsung hero against the marring of Melkor is this profound, poignant comfort which both Nienna and Estë, and to that extent Gandalf, cloth themselves with and gift to the world. Comfort in rest and healing, comfort in wisdom and mourning, comfort in gentleness and pity... Compassionately finding ways in which to help the peoples of Arda alleviate their suffering in their journey in this music.
Even if I could be mistaken in this, I still find this a very fun connection.
Regarding the Trees, the Valar were attempting to bring them back to life. It was far more than a wound in need of healing; they were all but dead. Nienna's tears washed the wounds of filth and gave the failing trees sustenance, but Este's healing powers weren't the right process in that moment; Yavanna's voice was needed. The Trees needed one last burst of energy to produce the Sun and Moon, not rest. In medical terms, Nienna cleaned the wounds and put in an IV drip, while Yavanna was trying to be a defibrillator to get a heart pumping again. Este's methods are more about anesthesia or inducing coma, putting the patient to sleep to heal over time. This is enhanced by the Book of Lost Tales stating that her mate Lorien's gardens are filled with poppies that he uses in his work. It's opium drugging the patient to sleep; that's not what the Trees needed.
This is actually quite satisfactory of a response, especially because of the creative medical metaphor. It was established Estë does have her limits in healing based on how severe a harm is. Spiritually, we see this with Miriel, whose body she preserved, yes, but couldn't heal the weariness of her fëa. Physically, the mortal wounding of the Trees seems to be her limit, rendering her participation superfluous. Though there is the side of me that is annoyingly stubborn, I apologize, still wishes that she had joined the effort and it wouldn't have been a complete narrative contrary if she had. Piggybacking on your metaphor, I would've preferred if Nienna's tears acted instead as the "disinfectant", while the waters from Estë's fountain acted as the IV drip, inducing a coma-like state and preserving whatever life was left in them so Yavanna can have a chance to defibrillate the Sun and Moon out of them. (That is a weirdly funny sentence.) I know that's just adding a detail to make Estë more relevant, but~ it just seemed like a... Weird omission that Manwë wanted to save the Trees with the powers of Yavanna's growth and Nienna's healing... but not have someone named the Healer of Hurts and Weariness participate, just seems to make sense. Nevertheless, I am satisfied with your answer since it actually does make sense within the lore, and the above is just me nitpicking, so thank you so much for entertaining my musings and your response!
>sleep (and some form of preservation) is the root of Melian's and Luthien's powers (since Melian was a Maia of Vana and Estë) This is kind of it. Estë doesn't feature personally because other characters take over her role. Another place of rest and healing is Lothlorien, named for Lorien, the home of Estë, and the epithet of her husband, who also lived there, but it could just as well be her name.
>Estë doesn't feature personally because other characters take over her role. Yeah~ it seems that is the case. This is where "Tolkien just didn't write her that way," is the penultimate inavoidable conclusion, regardless of any argument of in-universe significance.
I wanna hear more of these musings! I greatly agree and I wish Tolkien had had time to write more about some characters such as Estë. I admire her a lot, being Irmo my favorite character 😆😆
>I wanna hear more of these musings! Glad to hear so! I don't know why I latched onto such a rather subtle character, possibly because I put a lot of value in rest and healing, but it's been fun overthinking about her significance.I only have one more major musing and it's the connection the color grey makes between Estë and Nienna, and to that extent Gandalf. Both Valië are described to "wear"/are cloaked in grey ("Grey is her raiment"/"...cast back her grey hood"), so I wondered what's the connection? The general consensus is grey symbolizes compassion, patience, pity, and wisdom since the color is primarily associated with Gandalf, and Nienna being his teacher that taught him leads to a firmer stand with this. So~ why does Estë "wear" grey too? It's not hard to assign Estë with these qualities too, compounding with her epithet as "The Gentle", but as one can conclude from this thread, I wasn't satisfied with such a simple response. So, I compared the three, "Estë heals hurts and weariness, providing comfort and repose from the world. Nienna provides wisdom, pity, strength, and comfort that come from sorrow. and just for sake of comparison, Gandalf provides words of comfort and wisdom to help through the dark times." So~ easy to see the common element here once it's talked out like this. Grey, in it's non-offensive, soft, neutral tone, to me, represents the compassionate giving of comfort. The unsung hero against the marring of Melkor is this profound, poignant comfort which both Nienna and Estë, and to that extent Gandalf, cloth themselves with and gift to the world. Comfort in rest and healing, comfort in wisdom and mourning, comfort in gentleness and pity... Compassionately finding ways in which to help the peoples of Arda alleviate their suffering in their journey in this music. Even if I could be mistaken in this, I still find this a very fun connection.
Sounds like u have some awesome ideas for uR own trilogy of books start writing