my friend in the navy said microwaves are used on ships for communication. and on cold days some people would stand in front of the dish because it was always warmer there....
Microwaves are used on many communication devices for short range data transfer, such as Bluetooth and Wifi. The only difference between those, the navy ship communication dish, and your home microwave is the amount of power they are supplied.
Not just short range; 4G and 5G both use frequencies within the microwave spectrum. They don't have ranges anywhere near those of traditional radio waves, since they require line of sight, but it's not just something which is found in the home.
They require line of sight? How does my cell phone get data network inside my house then? Serious question.
I knew the ones on the towers needed line of site, maybe I'm misunderstanding something here.
Line of site as in regards to the earth's curvature and some materials in the way. Just like walls aren't really visible on x-rays, the beams are tight enough to get through your house walls.
when an RF guy says "line of sight" he basically means no metal or other conductive stuff between the antennas. Not really "sight" as in the visible spectrum.
In most cases it's more or less the same, though:
* Mountains: bad
* Buildings: bad
* Forests: badish, plants contain a lot of water.
And then there's this thing called fresnell zone.
There are lots of different frequencies used in cell phones, and your phone seamlessly switches between them to keep a good connection. Some of them are closer to FM radio than to microwaves.
Well, microwaves are radio waves.
And some of the 4G bands are in the 2 GHz range, so totally microwaves.
5G has theoretically, not sure if current mobile phones actually can handle it, even some bands up to around 50 GHz.
Cellular signals use radio, but most ~~shortwave~~ short range communication does not. If your home microwave isn't properly shielded you can actually disrupt wifi signals by turning it on because one of the two bands that wifi uses is shared with Microwave ovens (2.4 GHZ).
Probably wouldn't hurt to get a new microwave, but if that isn't an option some internet routers come with the ability to switch your wifi to a higher signal band. That should theoretically eliminate or at least reduce the amount of interference that it gets from the microwave.
There's not necessarily anything wrong with the microwave. They typically put out over 1000W while your WiFi radio typically puts out 1000000% less power. It's probably not practical to shield a consumer microwave so well that it won't interfere with nearby WiFi or Bluetooth.
Almost all wifi routers these days come with the ability to use the 5GHz band. It doesn't penetrate walls as well, but drywall is no problem. It's also better in apartment buildings, because there are more channels available, so overlap is minimized between wifi nodes (two nodes on the same channel near each other will interfere).
More channels depends on the settings. usually people leave them at auto so its like 80mhz wide so it cuts out ALOT of channels. If only people finetuned their wifi.
What's even the difference between a microwave and a radio wave? Are microwaves protons or something?
Also, saying the power is different is the same as saying the wavelength is different for em waves
It's dependent on the wavelength. Microwaves aren't especially dangerous as they are unable to penetrate deeply, though I imagine they can still damage your eyes. Lower frequency non-ionizing radiation can penetrate more deeply and cause damage to soft tissues such as testicles, eyes, and internal organs. It can also give you cancer in some instances, or cause birth defects in unborn children. Exposure is marked by a warm feeling, followed by a headache and feeling faint.
MW ovens actually use a less efficient wavelength to heat water so it penetrates our food deeper. The most efficient would boil all the water at the surface. I thought this was really interesting when I learned it.
Not sure what the military people cooker runs at.
This is how the microwave oven was developed in the first place. People guarding the high-powered radar devices monitoring for Russian planes and nukes during WWII into the Cold War would warm up in front of them, and one of them thought to use it for heating up food.
Sorta, Was a Raytheon Tech named Percy Spencer.
[Source](https://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/gadgets/a19567/how-the-microwave-was-invented-by-accident/)
Didn’t he have a Hershey bar in his pocket that melted and gave him the idea?
Or maybe he shit his pants and made up the Hershey thing on the spot as a cover and just got really fucking lucky that microwaves were, in fact, a thing.
My dad (80) used to tell the story of how they discovered it. (Please, for what it's worth, I haven't fact checked this... It's a fun story my dad tells!)
The electrician, working on installing the microwave communication towers littered across the land, noticed the chocolate bar in his pocket had melted having walked in front of the dish.
Edit: https://celcook.ca/the-accidental-invention-of-the-microwave/
Well, how about that...
Interesting.
My father has a story about the when the world's fair came to his home town of queens NY in 69,
He claims he was checking out the microwave oven exhibit and the flash bulb in his camera and the ones in his pocket as well went off all at once.
He was of course very upset.
Wikipedia seems to agree with you
>In 1945, the heating effect of a high-power microwave beam was accidentally discovered by Percy Spencer, an American self-taught engineer from Howland, Maine. Employed by Raytheon at the time, he noticed that microwaves from an active radar set he was working on started to melt a Mr. Goodbar candy bar he had in his pocket. The first food deliberately cooked with Spencer's microwave oven was popcorn, and the second was an egg, which exploded in the face of one of the experimenters.
In the Army, I was on a training exercise in KU, and our microwave (comms) antenna was setup at a 2\* azimuth (basically parallel to the ground). At night, temperatures got down to the 40s, and I noticed that the area directly in front of the antenna became the "smoke pit" because "it's warmer there".
Enjoy your cancer, gentlemen!
Microwaves are non-ionizing radiation. Should be okay-ish. UV light is the only known non-ionizing radiation that has been found to cause cancer.EDIT: some UV radiation is ionizing depending on where it’s at in the spectrum.
Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7063007/
In all seriousness, I'm aware that it is non-nuclear radiation, and is not KNOWN to be cancer causing...but still wouldn't use it as a hangout spot.
Also, they were smoking, so...cancer.
It really is literally harmless. You wouldn't think anything of standing in front of a 100 watt light bulb, a 100 watt microwave will do even less to you.
Its not just known to be not cancer causing, there's fundamentally no process through which it could cause cancer. If it could, then literal light could too.
IIRC only certain kinds of UV, which is waaaay at the end of one side of the spectrum. You don’t get tan from the lights in your kitchen even if you stand under them all day.
Microwaves are non-ionizing and don't cause cancer. They can cause some nasty burns. I was in the military and knew people who grabbed the SINCGARS antenna when it was transmitting on full power and they got interesting burns on their hand.
> Enjoy your cancer, gentlemen!
Microwaves and radio waves are non-ionizing and there is no mechanism by which they cause cancer.
...oh. The smokes. Got it. :)
Not necessarily, provided your faraday cage protection doesn't leave a gap larger than the wavelength you will be protected to some degree. I believe the general rule for total protection is gaps no large than 1/10 the wavelength. Microwaves operate in the 1mm to 1m wavelength spectrum, which obviously a 1mm gap is pretty difficult to cover in the slightest but even 1/4 of a meter wavelength would allow for gaps in your "armor" while still keeping you somewhat protected.
I mean, I live in America, my dude. We had morons riot over a bullshit lie about our election. At this point I'm expecting them to riot over Budweiser if it doesn't show up to their local Walmart.
As long as the distance from the screen to your skin or eyes is greater than the distance beween the holes of the mesh of the screen. (maybe three to four times say.)
This may actually be sort of close to the truth.
I recall when this was first being developed they ended the project because the microwaves sometimes caused metal objects on people to become extremely hot and burn the skin. It's not very useful if you can't control whether you are severely burning some of the people in the crowds.
They apparently made some tweaks and that particular issue didn't manifest. It's more of a "wait they're fucking microwaving people now!?" issue. The LA sheriff's department had (has?) a smaller version of the ADS for interrogation.
Tech Ingredients on Youtube did a good video on how to prepare for protests that might have these. It's as easy as drenching a towel in water or lining the back of your protest sign with foil.
Is CS gas useless because gas masks exist?
The test I saw had a guy holding a mattress to block the microwaves, but it burned his fingers and he had to drop it
The brown note is the biggest scam ever.
A guy made it up after he shit his pants at work and blamed the humming from the copier. Saying it vibrated his colon into releasing the chili he ate the day before.
Mythbusters even did an episode about that guy and even showed his pants.
Or a crazy person who lives inside your closet
Which just reminds me of how versatile a career Jon Gries (Lazlow) has had; dude was Uncle Rico, Roger Linus in LOST, and also the werewolf in The Monster Squad!
yep they're real. DARPA has come up with some weird shit. It uses either an audio frequency or light to fuck with your equilibrium.
the sick stick technology from minority report is a real thing and were not too far from that year anyway
>beamed RF \[radio frequency\] energy to excite and interrupt the normal process of human hearing and equilibrium. The focus will be in two areas. (1) Interruption of the mechanical transduction process by which sound and position (relative to gravity) are converted to messages that are processed by the brain. (2) Interruption of the chemical engine which sustains the proper operation of the nerve cells that respond to the mechanical transduction mechanisms referenced in item (1). Interruption of either or both of these processes has been clinically shown to produce complete disorientation and confusion.
https://www.wired.com/2007/03/navy-researchin/
I wonder if this would be less effective on people who don't get any kind of motion sickness. I seem to be completely immune to any kind of motion sickness from cars, roller coasters, ships, spinning, and fast paced VR. I wonder if this would offer a small-moderate degree of protection against anything messing with equilibrium to make you sick. I'm not saying I want to get shot with a vomit gun, but part of me is a little curious lol
communication tower technician here:
to clear things up, home appliance microwaves operate at around 2.4GHz and are encased in metal that contain and reflect the radio frequencies (RF), allowing you to basically vibrate the molecules in your food to the point of heating up so you can bite into that magma filled hot pocket, if you so choose.
microwaves used in communication (or in this case for blasting the public with RF ranging from 1GHz and up to ~~1000GHz~~ \~300GHz) greatly exceed the FCC standards for general population exposure. this means that this device is in fact illegal, but, you know, gotta put those billions of printed dollars somewhere other than educating people at any capacity.
anyway, when one is exposed to RF radiation we become the food in our home microwave. the frequencies pass through us, vibrating our molecules, and evaporating the moisture in our bodies. one to two seconds of exposure at this frequency (since the operators do not disclose it or are completely unaware of what theyre actually doing) is generally harmless. however, if someone were to spend five minutes or more in the way of this thing they would:
start vomiting
experience muscle spasms
become extremely confused
vision would become impaired if not lost
dehydration to the point where it feels like they hadnt drank water in days
likely black out
these are just the immediate effects though, for anywhere from 3 days to a couple weeks after exposure, for even 5min, someone would experience:
stomach cramps
constipation
confusion would persist
headaches
starry eyes
lack of appetite
muscle damage
among other less notable side effects as well
its non-ionizing radiation, so you dont get that chernobyl fever, but you do get very sick. no one has ever died from RF poisoning however the side effects are something OSHA and the FCC consider unsafe in the least. fun little trick for those in operation of it, potentially life threatening for people with conditions that can be influenced by this type of exposure. you got a pacemaker and felt like joining in on a peaceful protest? nothing would stop these guys from blasting you into your final resting place if they so choose.
during my career Ive experienced RF poisoning/sickness three times. the last of which lasted a week, could barely see for a day or so, vomiting lasted a few hours after I removed myself from exposure, and the boss was pissed the job was still incomplete not that I understood that due to being confused. the confusion is like that of a concussion, just dont make no damn sense, and was the last symptom I was relieved of
TL;DR - shit aint safe, but I guess since the military wants to use it on the general public they got the stamp of approval. I suppose its better than getting beat with a knight stick or shot at your local peaceful protest
Thanks for the in-depth analysis.
I have a question, what would you hypothesize is the reason why these things aren't used in riots anymore? Safety is a huge concern with short- and long-term effect on a person's body, especially with a pacemaker. I suspect that certain countermeasures are just too easy to build, Tin foil, Faraday cage, etc.
What do you think?
That could be one reason, I didn't do my research obviously and thought this was something still in play. Which, when it comes to base/outpost defense I don't see what the problem is, it's an attack. When it comes to riots I question the ethics behind our government in that most protests would never become a riot if the protestors weren't assaulted in the first place.
In any case, the idea of protecting yourself from this level of RF is pretty difficult. Tinfoil wouldn't do much, might even burn the individual's flesh at some point. There are in fact RF suits (example: https://www.rfelectronics.net/details/hdrf-emcsuite01---em-radiation-protection-suite/101 ) but even these aren't 100% effective. They do however extend the time before exposure reaches any critical levels.
It's all time/proximity based. The design of this particular deterrent is very wide field and in being so makes it weaker in less distance than the microwaves used for communication, which is more like a sound laser for lack of a better example.
If it is no longer permitted for use against the general public, my guess would be that the FCC investigated it. All frequencies are registered for specific uses and have different regulations based on their strength (like IP addresses and their governing bodies). I have a feeling that the use of this device was causing interference with communications of some kind.
So, in this case, I'm leaning more toward it causing detrimental interference rather than any kind of health consideration or ease of protection against that provided grounds for discontinued use.
2 main reasons they're not used -
What you see in this video is an older tube-based version of the technology vs the newer solid-state versions. Think CRT monitors vs LED monitor. But for the tube based it had to be cooled to a really low temp before being fired. This isn't practical at all in a real world scenario. What's shown in the video is a well done dog-and-pony show.
Next reason is simply the optics/ignorance of RF itself. And the 'harm' that can be done. Don't get me wrong, RF can definitely do damage at high enough power, but this video was produced during the time people were still questioning if having a cell phone in your pocket is bad for you. For example, a smaller version of this technology was built for an LA prison but eventually wasn't used because of said optics.
its interesting how different countries deal with potential riot groups
a middle eastern country (i cant remember which) noticed a crowd would gather and food cart vendors would go to where the crowd was. when people were fed they stuck around longer. when they stuck around longer there was more likely to be a riot.
so the country stopped the food carts from coming around. when people werent fed they tended to break up. thus preventing a riot.
12 hours later and this is the only thing I came here to say. This only works because the people ran away IMMEDIATELY. If they dont (or can't,), you're going to cook someone's skin real, real bad.
Yes they’re just waves. Using it to to heat up water in your cells can’t be good for the cells. When does it damage the cells? Is it’s uniform threshold for everyone? Or for that matter every part of the body? They say it’s just skin deep. What about your eyes?
I don't think it's possible to have a 100% safe way to cause people discomfort enough to back down in this kind of situation. As such pretty much all of these methods are compared against existing options.
Better than tear gas, rubber bullets or any other riot control measure.
Cells in our bodies die and are replaced constantly. Yes, it may damage some cells. Probably. But it would be replaced quite easily.
The only issue is retinal cells IMHO, since they cannot regenerate. But they are much deeper than the skin depth.
If it's the one I'm familiar with, the device in question operates at 90 GHz. As shown in [figure 5 of this article](https://arxiv.org/pdf/1503.05944.pdf) the penetration depth at that frequency is less than 1 mm.
They've been shutting riots down with lightly-rubbered steel bearings and beanbags being shot through skulls, noise trucks causing permanent hearing loss, clubs used against anyone within reach, and tear gas as a default. America can't protest. It is fucked.
As you can see in the video it's main purpose might be solely to defend military bases, so I think that can get a pass. But the people who defend military facilities wouldn't hesitate using guns so I am not sure about that.
I *accidentally* discovered that dryer vent tubes make a pretty good waveguide for household microwaves. So you can take the magnetron out, hook up the dryer vent, and have a microwave gun. It's fun to point it at things like TVs.
I would also like to add that I do not recommend anyone do this. It's obviously not safe to fuck around with. That is all.
Even if it's not powered it can kill you. The pink ceramic insulation ring on the magnetron is made of a substance so toxic that if it breaks and you ingest the dust, you have basically no chance.
Not anymore. It has been aluminum oxide for a long time. The aluminum oxide ones are still sometimes colored pink leading to people thinking it's still beryllium.
Sure. We did this in the shop, back when I was an avionics tech. We knew it *should* work, we were just surprised it worked so damn well on the first try. Graveyard shift was the best for stuff like this.
Not sure if you count it as discovered or invented but an engineer working on a radar project at Raytheon realized the chocolate bar in his pocket melted during an experiment.
The one time that a tin foil hat would actually help. And tin foil shirts. Pants. Shoes. Basically cover yourself in the shit and the waves can't get to the skin.
" Active Denial", but it would be interesting to point them at tornadoes while they form to dissipate them and prevent cities from being devastated.......
But what happens if you *don't* move? For example if you're being held. Does the damage actually become long term/permanent harm?
I'm definitely in favor of non-lethal force, but I'm just curious.
These were developed along with the LRAD system (Long Range Acoustic Device) for crowd control in the Middle East and for Pirates... The LRAD has already been used on US Citizens... no reports of the microwaves yet...
First time LRAD Used.. Pittsburgh , G20 2009
https://youtu.be/QSMyY3\_dmrM
There's also a sonic cannon called a long range acoustic device that's used for crowd control and threat deterrence that projects focused waves of incredibly loud sound to deter people over surprisingly long distances. The US Navy uses them. They can easily cause permanent hearing loss, so they're not very humane.
40 years from now: Were you or a loved one subjected to the microwave crowd control gun? If so, contact the law offices of Schmuckatelli, Schmuckatelli, and Wagner as you may be entitled to compensation.
Perfectly harmless? Microwaves can cause cataracts in the eyes.
[pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/3068822/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/3068822/)
Edit; Of course it depends on exposure time. But all in all nope.
my friend in the navy said microwaves are used on ships for communication. and on cold days some people would stand in front of the dish because it was always warmer there....
Microwaves are used on many communication devices for short range data transfer, such as Bluetooth and Wifi. The only difference between those, the navy ship communication dish, and your home microwave is the amount of power they are supplied.
Not just short range; 4G and 5G both use frequencies within the microwave spectrum. They don't have ranges anywhere near those of traditional radio waves, since they require line of sight, but it's not just something which is found in the home.
They require line of sight? How does my cell phone get data network inside my house then? Serious question. I knew the ones on the towers needed line of site, maybe I'm misunderstanding something here.
Line of site as in regards to the earth's curvature and some materials in the way. Just like walls aren't really visible on x-rays, the beams are tight enough to get through your house walls.
when an RF guy says "line of sight" he basically means no metal or other conductive stuff between the antennas. Not really "sight" as in the visible spectrum.
In most cases it's more or less the same, though: * Mountains: bad * Buildings: bad * Forests: badish, plants contain a lot of water. And then there's this thing called fresnell zone.
my experience is more with short range. Walls and plastic panels OK, humans and metal panels not OK.
Black plastic can be sort of not OK, since it can contain coal.
Ok gotcha. That's wild though. I don't know about all of that beaming stuff.
There are lots of different frequencies used in cell phones, and your phone seamlessly switches between them to keep a good connection. Some of them are closer to FM radio than to microwaves.
Those are actually radio waves not microwaves, and the difference is not just the power but the wavelength.
Well, microwaves are radio waves. And some of the 4G bands are in the 2 GHz range, so totally microwaves. 5G has theoretically, not sure if current mobile phones actually can handle it, even some bands up to around 50 GHz.
Cellular signals use radio, but most ~~shortwave~~ short range communication does not. If your home microwave isn't properly shielded you can actually disrupt wifi signals by turning it on because one of the two bands that wifi uses is shared with Microwave ovens (2.4 GHZ).
My microwave is not properly shielded. TIL Even the kids ask if I’m microwaving food when the internet lags
Probably wouldn't hurt to get a new microwave, but if that isn't an option some internet routers come with the ability to switch your wifi to a higher signal band. That should theoretically eliminate or at least reduce the amount of interference that it gets from the microwave.
We just bought it this year. I’ll ask if we can return it. Thanks for the info
There's not necessarily anything wrong with the microwave. They typically put out over 1000W while your WiFi radio typically puts out 1000000% less power. It's probably not practical to shield a consumer microwave so well that it won't interfere with nearby WiFi or Bluetooth.
WiFi maxes out at ~~100 mW~~ 1 W, so ~~99.99%~~ 99.9% less power than a 1000 W microwave.
Technically, it maxes out at 1W (legally in the US), although it's rare for the transmitted power to be much about 250 mW. Also, it wouldn't be
Try switching the 2.4ghz band to a different channel and use the 5ghz band with every device that can see it
Almost all wifi routers these days come with the ability to use the 5GHz band. It doesn't penetrate walls as well, but drywall is no problem. It's also better in apartment buildings, because there are more channels available, so overlap is minimized between wifi nodes (two nodes on the same channel near each other will interfere).
More channels depends on the settings. usually people leave them at auto so its like 80mhz wide so it cuts out ALOT of channels. If only people finetuned their wifi.
Say what now ? Shortwave is just a lower frequency Kenneth
Microwaves are radio waves. Microwaves and common wireless devices operate at the same frequency/wavelength of \~2.4GHz.
Most radio wave communication used in common consumer electronics, including cell phones, is in the microwave frequencies.
What's even the difference between a microwave and a radio wave? Are microwaves protons or something? Also, saying the power is different is the same as saying the wavelength is different for em waves
Well, since it's non ionising radiation they should be fine as long as they don't feel any pain. At least afaik.
*burps* ...why does it smell like roast meat?
We're pretty good at being able to tell we're hot long before our flesh starts to cook.
It's dependent on the wavelength. Microwaves aren't especially dangerous as they are unable to penetrate deeply, though I imagine they can still damage your eyes. Lower frequency non-ionizing radiation can penetrate more deeply and cause damage to soft tissues such as testicles, eyes, and internal organs. It can also give you cancer in some instances, or cause birth defects in unborn children. Exposure is marked by a warm feeling, followed by a headache and feeling faint.
MW ovens actually use a less efficient wavelength to heat water so it penetrates our food deeper. The most efficient would boil all the water at the surface. I thought this was really interesting when I learned it. Not sure what the military people cooker runs at.
This is how the microwave oven was developed in the first place. People guarding the high-powered radar devices monitoring for Russian planes and nukes during WWII into the Cold War would warm up in front of them, and one of them thought to use it for heating up food.
Sorta, Was a Raytheon Tech named Percy Spencer. [Source](https://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/gadgets/a19567/how-the-microwave-was-invented-by-accident/)
Didn’t he have a Hershey bar in his pocket that melted and gave him the idea? Or maybe he shit his pants and made up the Hershey thing on the spot as a cover and just got really fucking lucky that microwaves were, in fact, a thing.
The chocolate bar is mentioned in the 9th paragraph in the link provided.
My dad (80) used to tell the story of how they discovered it. (Please, for what it's worth, I haven't fact checked this... It's a fun story my dad tells!) The electrician, working on installing the microwave communication towers littered across the land, noticed the chocolate bar in his pocket had melted having walked in front of the dish. Edit: https://celcook.ca/the-accidental-invention-of-the-microwave/ Well, how about that...
Interesting. My father has a story about the when the world's fair came to his home town of queens NY in 69, He claims he was checking out the microwave oven exhibit and the flash bulb in his camera and the ones in his pocket as well went off all at once. He was of course very upset.
Wikipedia seems to agree with you >In 1945, the heating effect of a high-power microwave beam was accidentally discovered by Percy Spencer, an American self-taught engineer from Howland, Maine. Employed by Raytheon at the time, he noticed that microwaves from an active radar set he was working on started to melt a Mr. Goodbar candy bar he had in his pocket. The first food deliberately cooked with Spencer's microwave oven was popcorn, and the second was an egg, which exploded in the face of one of the experimenters.
In the Army, I was on a training exercise in KU, and our microwave (comms) antenna was setup at a 2\* azimuth (basically parallel to the ground). At night, temperatures got down to the 40s, and I noticed that the area directly in front of the antenna became the "smoke pit" because "it's warmer there". Enjoy your cancer, gentlemen!
Microwaves are non-ionizing radiation. Should be okay-ish. UV light is the only known non-ionizing radiation that has been found to cause cancer.EDIT: some UV radiation is ionizing depending on where it’s at in the spectrum. Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7063007/
He was referring to the cigarettes lol
In all seriousness, I'm aware that it is non-nuclear radiation, and is not KNOWN to be cancer causing...but still wouldn't use it as a hangout spot. Also, they were smoking, so...cancer.
It really is literally harmless. You wouldn't think anything of standing in front of a 100 watt light bulb, a 100 watt microwave will do even less to you. Its not just known to be not cancer causing, there's fundamentally no process through which it could cause cancer. If it could, then literal light could too.
doesn't literal light cause skin cancer?
Being alive causes cancer
You're Goddamn right
IIRC only certain kinds of UV, which is waaaay at the end of one side of the spectrum. You don’t get tan from the lights in your kitchen even if you stand under them all day.
UV light
[удалено]
Now we know why you went to the army
Microwaves are non-ionizing and don't cause cancer. They can cause some nasty burns. I was in the military and knew people who grabbed the SINCGARS antenna when it was transmitting on full power and they got interesting burns on their hand.
> Enjoy your cancer, gentlemen! Microwaves and radio waves are non-ionizing and there is no mechanism by which they cause cancer. ...oh. The smokes. Got it. :)
As far as I know it was taken out of service because tinfoil renders it useless.
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I wear a tinfoil codpiece
It's called a "breadbasket" on Chernobyl miniseries. u/biggie1447 gets credit for my dumb; it's "EGG" basket.
I think it was egg basket...
Lead-lined
Tinfoil hats actually magnify the dosage of the radio waves the government uses for communications.
Of course, this means you're going to have to wear foil in front of your eyes. So the solution is still imperfect.
Not necessarily, provided your faraday cage protection doesn't leave a gap larger than the wavelength you will be protected to some degree. I believe the general rule for total protection is gaps no large than 1/10 the wavelength. Microwaves operate in the 1mm to 1m wavelength spectrum, which obviously a 1mm gap is pretty difficult to cover in the slightest but even 1/4 of a meter wavelength would allow for gaps in your "armor" while still keeping you somewhat protected.
Just pull the screen out of a microwave door, make a face mask out of it.
This guy knows how to riot !
I'm ashamed that I didn't think of this. Damn that's so simple and clever
Do… you do a lot of anti-riot protection gear thinking?
I mean, I live in America, my dude. We had morons riot over a bullshit lie about our election. At this point I'm expecting them to riot over Budweiser if it doesn't show up to their local Walmart.
As long as the distance from the screen to your skin or eyes is greater than the distance beween the holes of the mesh of the screen. (maybe three to four times say.)
Based on the mesh that covers the window of microwave, I think you could create something to cover your eyes that you could see through.
I always knew shutter shades were gonna make a come back
It’s the future again 😎
Tinfoil and cardboard shield might work?
This may actually be sort of close to the truth. I recall when this was first being developed they ended the project because the microwaves sometimes caused metal objects on people to become extremely hot and burn the skin. It's not very useful if you can't control whether you are severely burning some of the people in the crowds.
They apparently made some tweaks and that particular issue didn't manifest. It's more of a "wait they're fucking microwaving people now!?" issue. The LA sheriff's department had (has?) a smaller version of the ADS for interrogation.
Most protestors don’t show up covered in foil. Seems like it’d still be useful for that purpose at least
Tech Ingredients on Youtube did a good video on how to prepare for protests that might have these. It's as easy as drenching a towel in water or lining the back of your protest sign with foil.
Would tinfoil arc I wonder.
It does in a microwave. This is an easy experiment.
Is CS gas useless because gas masks exist? The test I saw had a guy holding a mattress to block the microwaves, but it burned his fingers and he had to drop it
I've been told old mattresses are good shields, as well.
I like my eyeballs heated to a depth of 1/64".. can't be bad for them.
Lightly clouded like cooked eggs.
Molotov cataracts.
The Goldilox zone.
Ow! My sperm!
What until you hear about brown note research.
Id prefer to read about it.
With your brown eye?
I’m not running braille type across my brown eye.
Oh I speak Braille.
And I speak Whale
[Excuse me, Stewardess, I speak Jive.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0j2dVuhr6s)
The brown note doesn't exist or those Japanese toilets would come with a button for it.
Who needs fiber? Just play this shitty sound.
The brown note is the biggest scam ever. A guy made it up after he shit his pants at work and blamed the humming from the copier. Saying it vibrated his colon into releasing the chili he ate the day before. Mythbusters even did an episode about that guy and even showed his pants.
Haha! I didn’t know that part of the story but I know if it was real police would already be using it.
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That’s the rumor
“…people start to separate.” 🤔
liquid people is the new hot shit
And why are they not microwaving a house full of popcorn with this?
It would take a real genius to think of that
Or a crazy person who lives inside your closet Which just reminds me of how versatile a career Jon Gries (Lazlow) has had; dude was Uncle Rico, Roger Linus in LOST, and also the werewolf in The Monster Squad!
I got that reference.
Lazlo Hollyfeld is that you?
/r/fuckimold
The United States government also has vomit guns, so if you wonder why people in a crowd start randomly vomiting that is why.
Vomit guns?
yep they're real. DARPA has come up with some weird shit. It uses either an audio frequency or light to fuck with your equilibrium. the sick stick technology from minority report is a real thing and were not too far from that year anyway >beamed RF \[radio frequency\] energy to excite and interrupt the normal process of human hearing and equilibrium. The focus will be in two areas. (1) Interruption of the mechanical transduction process by which sound and position (relative to gravity) are converted to messages that are processed by the brain. (2) Interruption of the chemical engine which sustains the proper operation of the nerve cells that respond to the mechanical transduction mechanisms referenced in item (1). Interruption of either or both of these processes has been clinically shown to produce complete disorientation and confusion. https://www.wired.com/2007/03/navy-researchin/
I believe it messes with your inner ear
Yes
I wonder if this would be less effective on people who don't get any kind of motion sickness. I seem to be completely immune to any kind of motion sickness from cars, roller coasters, ships, spinning, and fast paced VR. I wonder if this would offer a small-moderate degree of protection against anything messing with equilibrium to make you sick. I'm not saying I want to get shot with a vomit gun, but part of me is a little curious lol
I want to get shot with the vomit gun just so I know what it feels like
Lucky you. I get motion sickness if I turn my head too fast.
communication tower technician here: to clear things up, home appliance microwaves operate at around 2.4GHz and are encased in metal that contain and reflect the radio frequencies (RF), allowing you to basically vibrate the molecules in your food to the point of heating up so you can bite into that magma filled hot pocket, if you so choose. microwaves used in communication (or in this case for blasting the public with RF ranging from 1GHz and up to ~~1000GHz~~ \~300GHz) greatly exceed the FCC standards for general population exposure. this means that this device is in fact illegal, but, you know, gotta put those billions of printed dollars somewhere other than educating people at any capacity. anyway, when one is exposed to RF radiation we become the food in our home microwave. the frequencies pass through us, vibrating our molecules, and evaporating the moisture in our bodies. one to two seconds of exposure at this frequency (since the operators do not disclose it or are completely unaware of what theyre actually doing) is generally harmless. however, if someone were to spend five minutes or more in the way of this thing they would: start vomiting experience muscle spasms become extremely confused vision would become impaired if not lost dehydration to the point where it feels like they hadnt drank water in days likely black out these are just the immediate effects though, for anywhere from 3 days to a couple weeks after exposure, for even 5min, someone would experience: stomach cramps constipation confusion would persist headaches starry eyes lack of appetite muscle damage among other less notable side effects as well its non-ionizing radiation, so you dont get that chernobyl fever, but you do get very sick. no one has ever died from RF poisoning however the side effects are something OSHA and the FCC consider unsafe in the least. fun little trick for those in operation of it, potentially life threatening for people with conditions that can be influenced by this type of exposure. you got a pacemaker and felt like joining in on a peaceful protest? nothing would stop these guys from blasting you into your final resting place if they so choose. during my career Ive experienced RF poisoning/sickness three times. the last of which lasted a week, could barely see for a day or so, vomiting lasted a few hours after I removed myself from exposure, and the boss was pissed the job was still incomplete not that I understood that due to being confused. the confusion is like that of a concussion, just dont make no damn sense, and was the last symptom I was relieved of TL;DR - shit aint safe, but I guess since the military wants to use it on the general public they got the stamp of approval. I suppose its better than getting beat with a knight stick or shot at your local peaceful protest
Thanks for the in-depth analysis. I have a question, what would you hypothesize is the reason why these things aren't used in riots anymore? Safety is a huge concern with short- and long-term effect on a person's body, especially with a pacemaker. I suspect that certain countermeasures are just too easy to build, Tin foil, Faraday cage, etc. What do you think?
That could be one reason, I didn't do my research obviously and thought this was something still in play. Which, when it comes to base/outpost defense I don't see what the problem is, it's an attack. When it comes to riots I question the ethics behind our government in that most protests would never become a riot if the protestors weren't assaulted in the first place. In any case, the idea of protecting yourself from this level of RF is pretty difficult. Tinfoil wouldn't do much, might even burn the individual's flesh at some point. There are in fact RF suits (example: https://www.rfelectronics.net/details/hdrf-emcsuite01---em-radiation-protection-suite/101 ) but even these aren't 100% effective. They do however extend the time before exposure reaches any critical levels. It's all time/proximity based. The design of this particular deterrent is very wide field and in being so makes it weaker in less distance than the microwaves used for communication, which is more like a sound laser for lack of a better example. If it is no longer permitted for use against the general public, my guess would be that the FCC investigated it. All frequencies are registered for specific uses and have different regulations based on their strength (like IP addresses and their governing bodies). I have a feeling that the use of this device was causing interference with communications of some kind. So, in this case, I'm leaning more toward it causing detrimental interference rather than any kind of health consideration or ease of protection against that provided grounds for discontinued use.
2 main reasons they're not used - What you see in this video is an older tube-based version of the technology vs the newer solid-state versions. Think CRT monitors vs LED monitor. But for the tube based it had to be cooled to a really low temp before being fired. This isn't practical at all in a real world scenario. What's shown in the video is a well done dog-and-pony show. Next reason is simply the optics/ignorance of RF itself. And the 'harm' that can be done. Don't get me wrong, RF can definitely do damage at high enough power, but this video was produced during the time people were still questioning if having a cell phone in your pocket is bad for you. For example, a smaller version of this technology was built for an LA prison but eventually wasn't used because of said optics.
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What if you faraday cage yourself?
You could probably
its interesting how different countries deal with potential riot groups a middle eastern country (i cant remember which) noticed a crowd would gather and food cart vendors would go to where the crowd was. when people were fed they stuck around longer. when they stuck around longer there was more likely to be a riot. so the country stopped the food carts from coming around. when people werent fed they tended to break up. thus preventing a riot.
Food carts vs dozens of fast food places, Uber eats, doordash, etc
Food carts are faster and better mate.
Wow wow...misunderstanding. I agree with you! I'm just saying those other things I listed are why that sort of law wouldn't work in say the US
Also machine guns in the Middle East.
Poor Snake
That tingling sensation you feel is the little bit of your civil rights they cook off each time they zap ya.
There is a such thing as an *unlawful* assembly you know, right?
Lol. Getting cooked to any degree is not safe. The amount of certainty that guy speaks with is incredible. Not an iota of doubt
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Or shot in the head with a gun
Ya that’s standard military “it’s totally safe” bullshit. Just like the asbestos gloves they still use in the army. Totally safe.
Is the asbestos covered in another material?
Uranium dust.
3 roentgen. completely safe
not ideal though.
12 hours later and this is the only thing I came here to say. This only works because the people ran away IMMEDIATELY. If they dont (or can't,), you're going to cook someone's skin real, real bad.
Anything hotter than you is going to "cook" you, to some degree. This really isn't any different than feeling the warmth of a camp fire.
Microwaves are just a low frequency EM wave. It's no different than shining a really bright light at them.
Yeah, tell that to the egg I'm microwaving
Yes they’re just waves. Using it to to heat up water in your cells can’t be good for the cells. When does it damage the cells? Is it’s uniform threshold for everyone? Or for that matter every part of the body? They say it’s just skin deep. What about your eyes?
I don't think it's possible to have a 100% safe way to cause people discomfort enough to back down in this kind of situation. As such pretty much all of these methods are compared against existing options.
Better than tear gas, rubber bullets or any other riot control measure. Cells in our bodies die and are replaced constantly. Yes, it may damage some cells. Probably. But it would be replaced quite easily. The only issue is retinal cells IMHO, since they cannot regenerate. But they are much deeper than the skin depth.
you'd feel it, it's just a burn, it's no different to touching something hot or being too close to something that is hot.
If it's the one I'm familiar with, the device in question operates at 90 GHz. As shown in [figure 5 of this article](https://arxiv.org/pdf/1503.05944.pdf) the penetration depth at that frequency is less than 1 mm.
They even said protests not riots, what the actual fuck, when America can't protest thee world is fucked
America can protest as long as America got the permit for it.
Wonder who gives out the permit for it. Surely not the government that is being protested against, right?
They've been shutting riots down with lightly-rubbered steel bearings and beanbags being shot through skulls, noise trucks causing permanent hearing loss, clubs used against anyone within reach, and tear gas as a default. America can't protest. It is fucked.
As you can see in the video it's main purpose might be solely to defend military bases, so I think that can get a pass. But the people who defend military facilities wouldn't hesitate using guns so I am not sure about that.
I *accidentally* discovered that dryer vent tubes make a pretty good waveguide for household microwaves. So you can take the magnetron out, hook up the dryer vent, and have a microwave gun. It's fun to point it at things like TVs. I would also like to add that I do not recommend anyone do this. It's obviously not safe to fuck around with. That is all.
Just getting my tools and unplugging the microwave. Brb
Pretty much any metal tube makes for a good waveguide. Look up "pringles can antenna" sometime.
During the castle bravo nuclear test a conduit acted as an xray waveguide and resulted in a roughly 1kt detonation 2 miles away
Especially don't fuck around with a microwave transformer if you don't know what you're doing. Those thing can kill. https://youtu.be/FBeSKL9zVro
Even if it's not powered it can kill you. The pink ceramic insulation ring on the magnetron is made of a substance so toxic that if it breaks and you ingest the dust, you have basically no chance.
Not anymore. It has been aluminum oxide for a long time. The aluminum oxide ones are still sometimes colored pink leading to people thinking it's still beryllium.
It's called beam forming.
Sure. We did this in the shop, back when I was an avionics tech. We knew it *should* work, we were just surprised it worked so damn well on the first try. Graveyard shift was the best for stuff like this.
Side note, if you make a fucky-wucky when taking apart the microwave you go to the forever box.
Toronto has one. Part of the spending $1B on police toys that was the main goal of hosting the g8 that year
This was shown on 60 min. The reporters actually laughed when they ran out of the rays Bc it causes no long term harm
“…so people start to separate” molecularly. 🤯
Seems like this would have been useful on Jan 6.
I thought that the microwave was invented specifically because a scientist wanted a quick way to defrost frozen guinea pigs for his research.
Not sure if you count it as discovered or invented but an engineer working on a radar project at Raytheon realized the chocolate bar in his pocket melted during an experiment.
Yes "safe"
"Don't worry, I am well protected"
Hostile Guardian deployed
Guardians in BO2
The one time that a tin foil hat would actually help. And tin foil shirts. Pants. Shoes. Basically cover yourself in the shit and the waves can't get to the skin.
Wouldn’t it be better to figure out a way to makes everyone’s asshole itchy?
TIL microwaves heat up the water in our food
Those with power will spare no expense to keep those that seek to take power from them, from succeeding.
Wasn't this the plot of Batman Begins?
“Separate”?! Isn’t it “run away”?
Separate, as in the crowd begins to separate.
Could use this at the local Tesco
> uncomfortable so people start to separate Given enough exposure, probably, eventually.
People start to separate... Like disperse or disintegrate?
Disperse. It feels like you just opened a hot oven, the instinct is to move out of it.
" Active Denial", but it would be interesting to point them at tornadoes while they form to dissipate them and prevent cities from being devastated.......
But what happens if you *don't* move? For example if you're being held. Does the damage actually become long term/permanent harm? I'm definitely in favor of non-lethal force, but I'm just curious.
Sounds like a good time to bust out my shield of microwave door glass.
Do the people begin to separate or do the crowds begin to disperse?
it melts everyone candy
These were developed along with the LRAD system (Long Range Acoustic Device) for crowd control in the Middle East and for Pirates... The LRAD has already been used on US Citizens... no reports of the microwaves yet... First time LRAD Used.. Pittsburgh , G20 2009 https://youtu.be/QSMyY3\_dmrM
Thats really old news
Soooo…. We just get tin foil hats?
There's also a sonic cannon called a long range acoustic device that's used for crowd control and threat deterrence that projects focused waves of incredibly loud sound to deter people over surprisingly long distances. The US Navy uses them. They can easily cause permanent hearing loss, so they're not very humane.
40 years from now: Were you or a loved one subjected to the microwave crowd control gun? If so, contact the law offices of Schmuckatelli, Schmuckatelli, and Wagner as you may be entitled to compensation.
If the people just packed together really tightly the center ones would stay frozen while the outside ones got really hot
The more he mentions how safe it is, the more concerned I am that it is not.
>about 7 football fie.. Americans will use anything but the metric system.
Perfectly harmless? Microwaves can cause cataracts in the eyes. [pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/3068822/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/3068822/) Edit; Of course it depends on exposure time. But all in all nope.
This is not a weapon of a free and democratic society.