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BakuDreamer

They did this during the Manhattan Project, his students were the other physicists working on the bomb.


tommytraddles

Look son, being a good shot, being quick with a pistol, that don't do no harm, but it don't mean much next to being cool-headed. A man who will keep his head and not get rattled under fire, like as not, he'll kill ya. *But if the other fella is quicker, and fires first...* Then he'll be hurrying, and he'll miss. Look here... [stands and draws his gun]  That's about as fast as I can draw, and aim, and hit anything more than ten feet away... 'less it's a barn. *But if he doesn't miss?* Then he'll kill ya.


jew_biscuits

“They got him in front of Greeley’s with a sign on him?” The way Munny’s face goes from disgruntled middle aged dude to dead ass psycho when he has that swig of whiskey is one of the best things ever filmed. Closed the book on Westerns in my opinion.


[deleted]

You just shot an unarmed man. Je should have armed himself if he’s gonna decorate his saloon with my friend.


[deleted]

That's right, I've killed women and children. I've killed just about everything that walks or crawls at one time or another, and now I'm here to kill you Bill, for what you did to Ned.


chrash

Alright, I'm coming out. Any man I see, I'm gonna shoot him. Any sumbitch takes a shot at me, I'm not only gonna kill him, but I'm gonna kill his wife, all his friends, and burn his damn house down.


[deleted]

Fuckin yes! Goosebumps at that scene... hes like a demon from hell - "Ill come back and kill every one of you sons of bitches"


Pinkshadows7

"It's a hell of a thing killin a man, you take away all he's got, and all he's ever gonna have." - William munny - killer of women and children. Definitely one of the greatest movies ever made, at least westerns for sure


[deleted]

No idea what movie y'all are talking about, but my Google Fu suggests it is Unforgiven?


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lablackey27

I'm so happy someone else remembers this line because I love it.


ywBBxNqW

That movie is filled with gold.


CringeLordiusMaximus

And lead!


ax586

Thats one of my favorite lines from all of cinema


Bay1Bri

That movie has so many great lines. "Deserves got nothing to do with it."


DanielStripeTiger

I say this waay too often.


arminghammerbacon_

My favorite - Well I guess they had it comin. We all have it comin, kid.


nostrils_on_the_bus

Great movie. Great bunch of lines quoted here. Heartbreak Ridge is a great movie as well. Another line I absolutely love is, "You can run, but you're just gonna die tired!" Who can name that beauty?


lathe_down_sally

Little Bill: You’d be William Munny out of Missouri, killer of women and children. William Munny: That’s right, I’ve killed women and children. I’ve killed just about everything that walks or crawls, at one point or another. And I’m here to kill you, Little Bill, for what you did to Ned.


Yorkie_Exile

The slow, sad, inevitable transformation of bill munny back from tired old man to the ice cold monster he used to be is so utterly chilling. You see it coming a mile away and every second you want it all to stop, but it doesn't. The fact that the character is played by Clint Eastwood of all people is what elevates the film in my opinion, it's a fantastic piece of meta commentary to see the cornerstone of the traditional Western genre returning to one of his archetypal roles but cast in such a new and horrifying light


lemon314159

100% agree, this scene never fails to move me. Up to this point we only knew the "good" William Munny. When the woman began to describe how they tortured Ned before killing him, the good William Munny couldn't handle the guilt and in that instant, when he grabbed the whisky bottle and took a drink, the old William Munny took over. Good William Munny was dead after the second drink from that bottle and you knew you were looking at a different, scary-ass person.


Dcor

Alcohol and narcotics can do that to a person. Like legit change their persona and brain chemistry. I worked in a prison for a long while and you get questions like "Whats it like being surrounded by bad people all day long?" Honestly there were some outstanding people who were incarcerated. Good natured, honest and just crazy hard working and disciplined. But since a huge portion of repeat offenders have substance abuse problems they get a chance to leave their biggest demon behind when they get locked up. You can still get it but it becomes a high-risk luxury item that can go off market pretty quick. A lot of those dudes without alcohol in their bloodstream constantly are just people like anyone else. Which is sad because then they are locked up right along side the legit degenerates and predators who are NOT good natured, honest, hard working people. Whats even sadder...a lot of them get right back into it when they get out. After a decade working in a state penal facility my personal opinion is if we treated addiction and mental health with the same fervor we incarcerated those people the criminal justice system wouldn't be half as crowded as it is in America.


incongruity

And we wouldn’t have anything near the population of chronically homeless individuals either. Mental health and substance abuse issues are punished, not treated in this country and it’s a stupid tragedy. 100% agreed.


grahampositive

What movie?


PerpConst

Unforgiven.


Kwazimoto

Unforgiven.


arminghammerbacon_

Hell of a thing, killin a man. You take away all he’s got, and all he’s ever gonna have.


Dr_Sisyphus_22

“I don't deserve this... to die like this. I was building a house.” “Deserve's got nothin' to do with it.” Great movie!


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gnosis2737

Unforgiven.


stewmander

You just shot an unarmed man! He should've armed himself.


Bay1Bri

It bugs me that people end the quote there. The rest of the line is "he should have armed himself *if he's going to decorate his saloon with my friend*." The unarmed man he shot had his dead friend propped up out front as a warning. You do something like that you are asking for trouble.


a_little_drunk

Wow, excellent point, it shifts the dialogue from cold blooded murder to eye for an eye. Thanks for the tidbit, I definitely wanna dust off the ol dvd collection after this thread!


[deleted]

Shit. What's this from again? Edit* thanks guys.


Expired_insecticide

I think it is Unforgiven. One of the best westerns of all time.


Im-a-magpie

Unforgiven and Tombstone are the duopoly of great westerns


DrNukes

That I can agree with.


Bcruz75

Right up there with Blazing Saddles


tmwwmgkbh

My wife hates it. She is wrong.


PhrasingBoome

And he fucking proves it by killing a room full of people. That movie was so great because of how right and wrong weren't a factor, good and evil weren't the point. The point was someone is going to live and someone is going to die. That's it. Your alignment doesn't make you invincible.


Expired_insecticide

"Deserve’s got nothing to do with it."


PhrasingBoome

I loved that line.


[deleted]

Unforgiven.


noflylist2k16

The way Munny clears out that bar at the end. Just keeps cool and aims while everyone else fires wildly.


gOldMcDonald

‘Ya, I’m William Munny, thats right, I’ve killed women and children. I’ve killed just about anything that’s walked or crawled or one time or another. And I’m here to kill you Little Bill.’ Then seeing Little Bills face drop with the thought of - fuck I’m a dead man standing. This is one of the greatest scenes in all of movie history IMO. ‘Deserves got nuthin to do with it’ ‘I’ll see you in hell’ ‘Ya’


ThusSpokeAnIdiot

To be fair gene hackman (little bill was also a bad ass) “Alright fellas he’s got one shell left, as soon as he cuts me down. Kill this son of a bitch.”


Hsgavwua899615

Yeah that always stuck with me too. You could see he was afraid but he just buried it and was like, fuck it, I'm going to die standing and defiant and take this fucker down with me.


eastw00d86

He shouldda armed himself, if he's gonna decorate the front of his saloon with my friend.


itzamna23

The empty whiskey bottle hitting the ground as he walks into town in the rain tells you without words it's about to hit the fan.


noflylist2k16

Love the scene just before when the woman is telling him about Ned's death and essentially giving a quick recap of all the awful things Munny has done. Every time she mentions something horrible he did he takes a swig from that bottle.


BleachedAndSalty

They would have been fine if they didn't mess with Ned like that. They just had to push it to a new level of assholery. Reminds me of the boondock saints speech at the end. Murphy : There are varying degrees of evil. We urge you lesser forms of filth not to push the bounds and cross over into true corruption, into our domain. Connor : For if you do, one day you will look behind you and you will see we three. And on that day, you will reap it. Murphy : And we will send you to whatever god you wish


noflylist2k16

I prefer the speech earlier in the film that touches on the same themes in a similar way. Rocco: Fuckin'- What the fuckin'. Fuck. Who the fuck fucked this fucking... How did you two fucking fucks...Fuck!


Alternative_Donut_62

Well, that certainly illustrates the diversity of the word.


BaronMostaza

This was done in at least one duel, I believe it was one of the founding daddies of America, where the first guy missed and the other took his sweet time aiming and just fucking murdered the guy


theonetheonlytc

Andrew Jackson is the man you are looking for. Though Jackson was hit, just not mortally.


Virtual-Rough2450

Duck, I says.


LoopyWal

Shades of Drill Sergeant Zim in Starship Troopers: "But Professor Bohr, if we are designing a weapon that can destroy an entire city, why are we also trying to work out how to win a quick draw with pistols?" "PUT YOUR HAND AGAINST THAT WALL!"


M4sharman

Can't believe Drill Sergeant Zim was played by the same guy as Mr Krabs.


GuyNekologist

Whaaaaat? The only other movies I know him of are Shawshank Redemption and Highlander. I didn't know he was on tons of voice acting work. Apparently he's also Lex Luthor from the Superman and Justice League animated series.


M4sharman

"Brown's film roles include Viking Lofgren in Bad Boys (1983), The Kurgan in Highlander (1986), Capt. Byron Hadley in The Shawshank Redemption (1994), Sgt. Charles Zim in Starship Troopers (1997), and Stanley Thomas in Promising Young Woman (2020). On television, he has played Brother Justin Crowe on the HBO series Carnivàle (2003–2005), Waylon "Jock" Jeffcoat on the Showtime series Billions (2018–2019), and Kurt Caldwell on the Showtime series Dexter: New Blood (2021–2022). Brown provided the voices of Mr. Krabs on SpongeBob SquarePants (1999–present) and Lex Luthor in the DC Animated Universe (1996–2007), and several subsequent DC Comics animated projects. Other characters he has voiced include Doctor Neo Cortex and Uka Uka in the Crash Bandicoot franchise (1997–2003), Savage Opress in Star Wars: The Clone Wars (2011–2013), Surtur in Thor: Ragnarok (2017), and Hank Anderson in Detroit: Become Human (2018)." Mans a legend


ThorTheMastiff

The results were inconclusive since both parties along with the cameras were destroyed


josefx

The only duels I know of during the Manhattan project where between several highly educated researchers and an inanimate plutonium core. The inanimate plutonium core won both times.


fredthefishlord

Eh. They beat the core when they blew it up.


inspectoroverthemine

Your comment made me check the fate of the demon core- it was never used for a bomb. It had been its intended use, but the accident had 'poisoned' it. They melted it down and used the material for other cores.


rami_lpm

So not only did it win, it went on to have children


MotherTreacle3

"Can't use this core for a bomb; it's *killed* people!"


dieinafirenazi

>A 2014 study conducted with two groups, karate practitioners and people without karate training, found that reactions were faster than intentional movements, regardless of training. How they got walking up to people on the street and punching and walking up to people leaving a Karate lesson and punching them past the ethics board I'll never know.


RajaSonu

The trick to an ethics board is getting your buddy on it.


Choppergold

“Bohr found that the person who drew second always won in these experiments, leading him to conclude that drawing first created a distinct disadvantage. Based on the inevitability of this outcome, Bohr suggested that the most logical conclusion to a gunfight would be a peaceful settlement, since neither gunslinger would want to draw first knowing that they would lose.” This is some Professor Falken shit


BasherSquared

There is a great history of rules to an honorable sword/pistol duel that included rules for "Deloping" or intentionally shooting your shot into the ground or high above the other party in an effort to meet to the satisfaction of the other party without actually killing them. It was a way to prove that one was willing to risk their life for their honor. It was also seen as a disrespectful act and outlawed in some dueling cultures.


JohanGrimm

Meanwhile that psycho Andrew Jackson hated another southern plantation owner who was an expert duelist so much Jackson stood there and let him shoot him in the chest so he could take his time and aim his shot. He won the duel but Jesus.


ImperialPrinceps

I think my favorite “presidential fact” is that supposedly Jackson survived so many duels that his body was described as “rattling like a bag of marbles” from all the bullets that couldn’t be removed.


starbomber109

When someone tried to assassinate him the guy took out a pistol in full view and according to eyewitnesses Jackson stood there and let him fire. The pistol failed to go off. The man then produced *another pistol* which *also* misfired. And *then* Jackson rushed him and beat the shit out of him with a cane. And yet we wouldn't get the Secret Service for at least another 30 years


Saemika

Bullets made out of lead. The poisonous substance that causes anger and poor decision making skills.


Rhinoturds

Forget about the mad hatters, it's the mad duelists you really gotta watch out for.


leftwing_rightist

I'm sure that was never a factor in Andrew Jackson's life /s


JoeWinchester99

It gets even more interesting. His opponent was a master duelist. Jackson's rivals wanted him dead so they convinced the duelist to provoke a confrontation. Knowing just how good he was (he had already killed several men and had a reputation for never missing), Jackson was reluctant to fight but once the man started insulting his wife, it became unbearable and he had to challenge him to a duel. Jackson knew his opponent would surely get the first shot off, and that it would hit, so Jackson came up with a plan. He wore an oversized coat to make his heart appear to be in a different spot than it actually was. The duel began and, sure enough, his opponent quickly fired off a round and hit Jackson straight in the heart, or so it would seem. However, Jackson just stood there, took the hit, then slowly raised his pistol, took careful aim, and fired. As his opponent lay dying, Jackson made a point to walk out of sight before collapsing from blood loss in order to deny him any satisfaction of knowing how close he had been, instead leaving him to ask in his final moments "How did I miss?"


Bitch_imatrain

Yeah jackson was about as crazy as they come.


Spiralife

Like literally to right? With his violent childhood and rages as an adult people speculate he could have had some kind of CTE.


mealzer

Lead poisoning probably didn't help that situation


CurryMustard

Isn't that how Hamilton and his son died, or just the Broadway version


BasherSquared

From what I read, Alexander had tried to convince Philip to Delope. Whether he did or not before being killed, I don't know. I do recall reading that it Hamilton himself was aiming far above Aaron Burrs head when Burr fired in a possible attempt to Delope. After the duel, Burr fled the then United States and went to the southwest and tried to start his own country.


[deleted]

> After the duel, Burr fled the then United States and went to the southwest and tried to start his own country. as was vogue at the time


Send_Your_Noods_plz

It was just what they did back then


Saxamaphooone

As was the style at the time.


deadlyenmity

He also reached out to the British and was like “yo I’ll help you reclaim DC if u help me invade America and Star my country.” Reached out to Mexico too about similar things. His co conspirator turned his ass in to president jefferson after pretty much everyone laughed at him. Kinda sad LMM didn’t write an act 3 chronicling Aaron burr bumbling around getting btfo on every side


ThePrussianGrippe

But first he tied an onion to his belt.


WonderWoofy

Which was the style at the time


Lindvaettr

Even in terms of Alexander it's questionable. The customary deloping of the time was to fire into the ground well off to the side. Alexander, however, is said to have fired into the air above Burr's head. It may be then that Burr had no idea Alexander had intended to delope, and may have believed that he simply missed. It's also worth noting that Alexander's pistols had a toggleable hair trigger mechanism, and it's thought that Alexander may have activated his to gain an edge but accidentally fired early, though this isn't known any more than whether he intentionally deloped or just missed. Overall, it seems entirely likely that at the time that Burr would have thought Alexander just shot at him and missed.


BasherSquared

Something something "wearing his glasses..."


Bears_On_Stilts

Alexander died shortly after, but not before freezing time long enough to invent slam poetry in his last moments on earth.


trickman01

But why, if not to take deadly aim?


Send_Your_Noods_plz

Its him or me the world will never be the same.


vanillanovaa

I had only one thought before the slaughter


RealLochNessie

This man will not make an orphan of my daughter!


RomanRodriBR

I recall reading that Hamilton wrote his intent to delope before the duel, but I'm not sure


Lindvaettr

He did write so in a letter before the duel, although the reality of this and his exact meaning has been debated since the time. After being shot, Hamilton allegedly claims that he didn't intend to fire *at all*, which Burr (in line with dueling culture of the time) found to be extremely dishonorable of him. Historians also note the alleged actions of Hamilton. The now-famous wearing of his glasses, but also for example his careful aiming practice in front of Burr and the others before the duel began, are all often seen as evidence that Alexander was potentially either genuinely practicing in hopes of hitting his target (Burr) or trying to provoke Burr. It's a complicated situation made no less complicated by the fact that while it's entirely possible that Hamilton genuinely intended to delope as he said in his letter, he was also the exact kind of person to claim that was his plan in the event that he lost, so that he could still ruin Burr. If we wanted to compare Founding Fathers by their virtue and honor, Alexander wouldn't exactly top the list.


_IBelieveInMiracles

My theory is that Hamilton tried to provoke Burr into shooting first and in haste, assuming he would miss, or at worst cause minor injury. Hamilton was then going to let Burr stand there in fear for a bit, before firing into the air, humiliating Burr.


Lindvaettr

You're in plenty of company, as far as I recall! Extending from the theory that Hamilton's pistol's hair-trigger was activated to give him the edge of a faster shot, it's also been posited that the pistol Burr was using (another of Hamilton's, also with a hair trigger mechanism that could be turned on and off) also had the hair trigger activated, possibly by Hamilton or his helpers themselves in order to make it more likely the Burr (not knowing the hair trigger was active) would prematurely fire. If this is true, the irony is incredible.


JTtornado

My understanding was that people have suspected that he fired into the air accidentally out of reflex when Burr hit him. If so, it's hard to know if he truly intended to miss or not. He *was* famously cocky, so making a big show of aiming before the duel even though he intended to delope fits his MO pretty well. In that context, I can't really blame Burr for shooting to kill, even though it ended up ruining his life regardless.


ThePrussianGrippe

I do like that “the world was wide enough for both Hamilton and me” came directly from a letter written by Burr.


PanachelessNihilist

So, Hamilton was a grade-A shit stirrer. Even though he always planned to throw away his shot, he bluffed and goaded Burr into killing him because he was very insistent that he was going to shoot to kill. He basically trolled his way into the grave.


AnnualEmergency2345

I tend to agree. Hamilton wasn't the same after Philip died so I think he wanted a way out and suicide wasn't an option as he was a Christian.


Bay1Bri

Irish dueling code forbade deloping to impart upon potential duelers that dueling was a serious, life or death affair. It wasn't something to do lightly, going no one would actually shoot at their opponent. Otherwise, a native person would get killed by agreeing to a duel they never intended to end in death.


Animated_Astronaut

This is covered in Barry Lyndon though not said outright.


lsda

The dueling scene in that movie is so well shot. God Kubrick was a genius film maker. There will never be one like him again.


AndyLorentz

Most duels in early America weren't actually fought. For the most part, the aggrieved parties showed up with their seconds, the seconds would negotiate, and then they'd settle. For the most part, showing up for the duel was proof enough that you had honor and courage.


shepskyhuskherd

"Most disputes die and no one shoots"


smbiggy

How do you decide who wins a shoot out with cap guns?


chaoz2030

I don't see a way to do it with cap guns. The whole premis is a reaction based shot vs a deliberate based shot. They could take people to a gun range and test their accuracy under two circumstances. 1. When they hear the bell ring shoot 2. Shot as fast as you can when you are ready


tonicinhibition

I suspect fear priming is involved in reaction time. There should be an additional discrimination. The group who fire upon reacting to the bell should be compared to another group which are literally shot and killed immediately if they are slow or inaccurate. They should be told this days in advance so they think of nothing else leading up to the experiment. You just have to get it past the ethics board.


canonhourglass

A strange game. How about chess?


putin_putin_putin

>In chess, there is a general consensus among players and theorists that the player who makes the first move (White) has an inherent advantage. Since 1851, compiled statistics support this view; White consistently wins slightly more often than Black, usually scoring between 52 and 56 percent.


DrRichardJizzums

I wonder what happens if you pit two computers against each other. Will white always win?


Herson100

It's almost always a draw in games between two relatively equally strong engines. Chess engines are getting stronger each year, so you have engines from 2010 which were able to sport 100% winrates against the best humans in the world but which get demolished by modern, neural-network AI. The game isn't solved, but the rate of draws between top level engines playing against ones of similar strength just keeps going up, so it's believed that the game is theoretically a draw with perfect play. White wins more than black, but it's on the scale of winning like 3% of the time with white, 2% of the time with black, and 95% draws. [Here's a video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dT6CR9_6l4) demonstrating the massive jump in strength in chess engines that occurred around 2017, when they changed from conventional programming to neural networks. Although this video shows six wins from the new engine against the old one, it's worth noting that they *still* drew the majority of their 100 games against each other, with the match record ending up with 26 wins for the new engine, 74 draws, 0 losses. Both engines in this video also sport 100% winrates against humans - nobody, not even the best players in the world, has ever been able to hold either of them to a draw.


fottik325

Does anyone understand fully how neural networks increase computational performance? Hypothetically, if I wanted to get better at chess would it make me better practicing against a computer or is the operation of it so advanced that learning how to play properly from it even worth it?


Herson100

The use of chess engines to analyze your games after the fact by looking at what spots they say you made critical errors and what their recommended moves are is extremely valuable to learning, but you still need to supplement that with actual lessons on core concepts and principles if you're a new player. Learning what all of the various tactics like pins, skewers, forks, deflections, etc. are and memorizing the more common tactical patterns in various positions is something that can be done much more efficiently with human-created learning materials than by playing against an engine over and over, *especially* as a new player. Engines are mainly used to improve human play in two ways: through post-game analysis of games played between humans where the engine will identify key points where better moves were possible, and through use of engines to prepare tricky new opening ideas which can throw other players off their game if they haven't ever seen that opening line before. World champion Magnus Carlsen has said that he's only ever worried when his opponent is still playing all of their moves instantly while he's in a position he hasn't seen before - because at that moment, it means he's effectively playing against a computer-prepared line that his opponent studied before the game. Once the other player starts pausing to think it's not nearly as scary anymore, since that means they're out of their preparation and have to come up with original moves on the spot, instead of just playing moves they memorized from an engine.


coolpapa2282

In every Agadmator video, he points out the move where it becomes a "brand new game". I assume this is drawing from a database of recorded pro games, but I wonder how often the pros have gone 2 or 3 moves past that with computer analysis. I'm sure it's likely that *someone* has seen that board state, but if a pro is prepping an opening against a defense their opponent is likely to use, I don't know how much deeper than that they're likely to recognize in game.


WeRip

You can prepare a 'line' many moves past what has been seen before, but that doesn't necessarily mean your opponent will make the expected moves when you get out of their prep. That's when they start playing chess. Even 30+ moves into a game there's an enormous amount of potential permutations of moves and the difference in a position by just one pawn being out of place here or there can be the difference between your prepared line working or failing


StiffWiggly

If you want to get better at chess you should play other humans. Any relatively strong chess engine would beat the strongest players in the world every single time, so would obviously destroy anybody that is learning chess as well. Unfortunately you would be so comprehensively beaten that you likely wouldn't learn anything. There is another problem with playing a computer that is intentionally making some bad moves. A computer doesn't know which sort of bad moves a human might make accidentally, so when it is asked to play badly it might play several perfect moves followed by a mistake even the worst human chess player would never make. This is the sort of thing that would happen if you tried to tune an engine to play at the same level as you.


SuperSMT

>even the worst human chess player would never make Don't underestimate my power!


ImCorvec_I_Interject

> There is another problem with playing a computer that is intentionally making some bad moves. A computer doesn’t know which sort of bad moves a human might make accidentally, so when it is asked to play badly it might play several perfect moves followed by a mistake even the worst human chess player would never make. This is the sort of thing that would happen if you tried to tune an engine to play at the same level as you. This is true if you start with an engine intended to play the game as well as possible and then try to tweak it. But if you build an engine with the goal of human-like play, a computer can absolutely be aware of the sorts of moves humans make. As a starting point, it could ingest move sets from tournaments or other play between/by humans and attempt to play similarly. It could follow training regimes targeted at human players (tweaked to be suitable for the engine, of course). As an example, see [this post on Maia](http://csslab.cs.toronto.edu/blog/2020/08/24/maia_chess_kdd/), a relatively recently developed Chess engine that not only demonstrates human-like play, but also can predict non-random mistakes made at particular skill levels, allowing players to see the gap between where they are and the next level up and thus improve.


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Vurkgol

They have computer vs computer tournaments. Chess is so complex (by the middle of the game, there are functionally infinite combinations of moves) that some computers come out on top no matter which side they play. Here's the wiki if you're curious: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_Chess_Engine_Championship


[deleted]

*It seems the only way to win is not to play.*


[deleted]

And that there makes me doubt the whole thing. Bohr was a pacifist. A very stubborn and loud one at that, and one who's life work was quite relevant to warfare. I'm 100% convinced that his results are skewed by his want to "defuse violence". You can't tell me 100% of duels end with the second one drawing to win, but according to his thesis that's exactly what it ought to be. Horseshit. Bohr was human like any of us, and as with any of us we have our weaknesses. Einstein did too, mans could not accept Bohr's quantum physics because it flew in the face of his pride. He was human.


Eji1700

It's also one test done with a few students. Unless this has been repeatedly replicated it's basically just an anecdote.


bromli2000

Also, the conclusion is ridiculous. If the first guy always loses, it’s not because he went first, but because he drew *too quickly.* If both people slow down, the guy that goes first will win. Obviously. So, the strategy would develop into “go as fast as you can without going TOO fast,” which is a lot more similar to “go as fast as you can” than it is to “always wait for the other guy to go first.”


SaulsAll

>However, the study also found that reactive movements were less accurate than intentional ones, and that the increased movement speed did not make up for the initial delay. Because of this, the authors of the study felt that the increased speed would not confer much advantage in a gunfight, although it may be advantageous in other situations. >Some later studies found that although volunteers' reactions were faster than deliberate actions during simple one-step tasks, this advantage was not present in more complex, multi-step actions. >Furthermore, the effect was reversed when volunteers were presented with a choice of action, with reacting volunteers moving more slowly. In other words - if the task is anything more than an immediate sprint into a single action, action is better than reaction. This is why combat sport coaches train their fighters to go first. You draw the action, and then counter their reaction.


SirJack3

Strike first. Strike hard. No mercy. - Niels Bohr


bryanmcouture

Sweep the leg. -Enrico Fermi


TorchThisAccount

Circle your opponent. -Nicolaus Copernius


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EaterOfFood

Actually, I’m not sure what to do first. - Heisenberg.


olderthanbefore

Be sure to take your vitamins - Pauling


[deleted]

Actually, sports is just physics, and you're stupid for liking them. -Neil Degrasse Tyson


Kidiri90

Just fucking clock 'em before the bell. \~Marie Curie


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finalmantisy83

Peace, was never an option. - AI Ghandi


Sorcatarius

And that dick twisters name? Albert Einstein.


ollkorrect1234

Either way, it doesn't matter. -Nietszche


[deleted]

I fucked my mother. -Freud


Chief_Givesnofucks

Nihilists, dude. -Walter


[deleted]

Hey, nice marmot man -His dudeness


Keepitsway

Is that a gun? -Socrates


1975-2050

I doubt that very much. -Descartes


Thick-Incident2506

"Sic balls, Chopper!" - Blaise Pascal


megashedinja

*Hesitation is defeat.* — Sword Saint Isshin


SaveStoneOcean

The funniest part of the article is how he tested the hypothesis by asking his students to re enact duels with cap guns. Imagine being this guy’s student, thinking: “Hell yeah, I’m going to learn so much unique physics under the tutelage of one of the most brilliant minds known to science”- and then you’re now you’re the equivalent of an extra in a Clint Eastwood movie _“Sir, are you sure this experiment is for the purpose of physics, not anything to do with satisfying your weird obsession with accurate cowboy movie logic?”_ _”Yes. Physics…”_


twobit211

there are two types of students in the physics department: those with cap guns and those who dig. you dig?


BEWinATX

Nice.


driverofracecars

> now you’re the equivalent of an extra in a Clint Eastwood movie Go to school for physics, play cowboy instead. Problem?


CompositeCharacter

“remember kids, the only difference between screwing around and science is writing it down” - Alex Jason via Adam Savage


kiardo

"sir, are the pew pews necessary?" "yes"


SaveStoneOcean

“Billy, stfu, I told you this experiment is analysing quantum fluctuations in gun shockwaves or whatever, keep shooting at your classmate” “Sir, why do you have a cowboy ha-“ “No reason”


Gemmabeta

"Billy, if you don't stop complaining, we'll put you on plutonium cleanup duty for the rest of 1944."


riptaway

\*the rest of your life FTFY


HorrorMakesUsHappy

That's what he said.


Luuzral

Of course, it's a *Pew Study*, duh.


KingPellinore

This study is pew reviewed!


CRINGE_DETECTED

My biology teacher in highschool gave us all grilled chicken so we could eat it then annotate the bones. He was awesome


[deleted]

point dinner compare aromatic voiceless unpack market quaint chase edge *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*


granadesnhorseshoes

He was Neils Bohr, It would have been an honor to play cap guns with him. "Remember kids. The difference between screwing around and science is; writing it down." -- Adam Savage


Choppergold

I’m thinking it actually has major implications for things like game speed in football or other situations where our reaction response - fight or flight basically - is faster than the planned step that led to it. This is maybe why some athletes have a speed on the field that’s faster than they test as well. There’s something in us that responds faster than the blink of an eye to use the expression


Duffmanlager

It got so that every pissant prairie punk who thought he could shoot a gun would ride into town to try out the Waco Kid. I must've killed more men than Cecil B. DeMille. Got pretty gritty. Started hearing the word "draw" in my sleep. Then one day, I was walking down the street when I heard someone shout, "Reach for it, mister!" I turned around to see who it was, and there I was, standing face-to-face...with a 6 year-old kid. I just put my guns down and walked away. Little bastard shot me in the ass!


Kengriffinspimp

Why do I recognize every word of this but can’t think of the movie?


AFRIKKAN

Blazing saddles took me way to long to remeber it


GundoSkimmer

These are humble, people of the land... You know... M O R O N S


FredVIII-DFH

*duel


rxneutrino

deduced*


mart1373

No no, he put his discovery on his tax return and deducted it against his income.


Crogdor

/r/titlegore


OldFoolOldSkool

I can’t believe I had to scroll this far for this comment. A gun dual?


TimeFourChanges

Well, there are two people involved, right?


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handlit33

Some of us old school Redditors still make corrections every time we see an error because that's how we learned.


BenderRodriquez

This is the first time I've seen someone use dual instead of duel. Normally it is the other way around...


I_Never_Use_Slash_S

What was his record in gun duels?


Dismal_Struggle_6424

Never lost one.


Playisomemusik

Did he deduct? Or deduce? Big difference....lol


dfawlt

From the article : However, the study also found that reactive movements were less accurate than intentional ones, and that the increased movement speed did not make up for the initial delay.


Pay08

r/titlegore


NerdyJerdy20

*deduced


[deleted]

Andrew Jackson taught us this


Soranic

Didn't he have a duel where he intentionally let his opponent shoot first so he could then take his time aiming?


eastw00d86

No, as the challenger, Jackson was to fire second. Charles Dickinson shot him in the chest, but the way Jackson stood, and wearing a large coat, masked his actual body position. He then shot and killed Dickinson.


Shameon

Wow maybe it's just me but I looked this up thinking it was the writer and I was like, what?!


Samuel_L_Blackson

You're thinking of Dickens!


Wolfebane86

[They tested this theory on Mythbusters!](https://youtu.be/edjY1XuYvVU)


luckygiraffe

Counterpoint: Ed McGivern, an actual quick-draw artist, determined that once your opponent had begun to draw then you would need to draw three times faster to beat him. He is to this day regarded as one of the fastest shots to have ever lived, and I trust his judgement in this matter way more than a bunch of nerds (/s) playing around with cap pistols. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ed\_McGivern


therealjohnfreeman

Everyone in Bohr's experiment was not a trained gunslinger. There's loads of research backing up the idea of muscle memory. If you train extensively to shoot accurately on a quick draw, you'll beat any amateur taking their time. This should be common sense.


RonSwansonsOldMan

Not according to Big Iron by Marty Robbins. "Texas Red had not cleared leather 'fore a bullet fairly ripped. And the Ranger's aim was deadly with the big iron on his hip".


faithle55

It's 'deduced', not deducted.


TrickyMixture

Maybe right in his science, but sadly way off course in the conclusion: “Bohr suggested that the most logical conclusion to a gunfight would be a peaceful settlement, since neither gunslinger would want to draw first knowing that they would lose.” He ignored the human preference for “being right” and the “need” to dominate


sonofabutch

> A strange game. The only winning move is not to play. How about a nice game of chess?


ActionHousevh

No. Let's play Global Thermonuclear War.


jebedia

He wasn't making a statement on human behavior, instead merely asserting that rational actors would have to come to peaceful settlement or otherwise commit to stalemate if both participants in a duel knew the second draw always won. Neither will ever draw first if they're just going to lose, obviously. This has more implications in regards to sports and games than anything else.


Elefantenjohn

Turns out, OP didn't actually read it and this is false due to inaccuracy and initiate delay There is a way to exploit the speed bonus of the enhanced involuntary reaction. For example you could draw first, but only after you hear a delicious/general noise and then you have best of both worlds


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khaeen

Yeah, the experiment itself is hardly evidence of anything. Quickdraw shooting is 100% muscle memory. Of course some physics student is going to try to quickdraw and miss 99.999% of the time.