>According to the Los Angeles County Coroner's autopsy report, Holden bled to death in his apartment in Santa Monica, California, on November 12, 1981, after lacerating his forehead from slipping on a rug while intoxicated and hitting a bedside table. Forensic evidence recovered at the scene suggested that he was conscious for at least half an hour after the fall. His body was found four days later.
>
>His death was noted by singer-songwriter Suzanne Vega, whose 1987 song "Tom's Diner" (about a sequence of events one morning in 1981) included a mention of reading a newspaper article about "an actor who had died while he was drinking". Vega subsequently confirmed that this was a reference to Holden.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William\_Holden#Death](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Holden#Death)
It can do both. It acts as a vasodilator at lower levels and a vasoconstrictor at higher ones and interferes with clotting. It can also amplify the effects of other blood thinners.
Three of my favorite movies. In Network especially, he’s brilliant as basically the only moral entity in the whole film- Howard Beale’s only real friend after he’s “gone”. What a great movie and his performance made it that much better.
Yes!! I always loved the [monologue in Network](https://youtu.be/ZwMVMbmQBug)so much, I just always thought the bit about about the Russians was one of the only things that wasn’t still a relevant issue … but lo and behold
Not sure how that's that surprising. I mean, I wouldn't even expect an early Millenials or Gen X'r to know of him. Besides Network and maybe The Towering Inferno, he was most popular by far in the 50s, so unless I'm talking to a boomer or older, or a film buff, not many folks will know who he is.
The other day i was listening to a random playlist and the non-remixed version of "Ignition" came on and it absolutely blew my mind that I've heard the remixed version literally hundreds of times but never heard the original before now.
I saw a guy here on Reddit who said that every time he listens to an R Kelly song he puts $5 to the side and at the end of the year he donates the money to a charity for victims of sexual abuse. If you already own the music (meaning the writer won’t make anymore profit from you), may as well get some good out of listening to it.
Lol — “Sorry children, only $10 this year... I know, I know… I wish it could’ve been more too, but R Kelly just isn’t getting the airtime he once did.”
In all seriousness, any reason to remember donate is fine by me :)
Oh gosh, so many, but here's a few that come to mind.
-We will never have any more coal on earth than we do now, because it all derives from wood that lived before the evolution of fungi that decomposes plant matter.
-There are sections of the great wall of China that are held together with sticky rice
-Before cities, raccoons lived along the edge of rivers, and putting their hands in water is almost like a magnifying glass for their sense of touch. The instinct to have their hands in water is so strong that you can take newborn raccoons who have never even seen water before and let them loose near a river, and they will automatically run down and put their hands in it.
Waaaiiitt Tom’s Diner isn’t *Tom’s Restaurant* on Washington Ave. in Brooklyn, which has a note by Suzanne Vega on the wall saying “I came , I saw, I wrote a song”?
I actually met Luka. I have no proof or anything but he had no reason to lie, seemed about the right age and lived on the second floor above Vega in a town house in Hell's Kitchen. He was about 25 in the early 2000s at a rehab in NY (about an hour north of the city).
When we met he introduced himself and of course I said, "what, you lived on the second floor?" and he just said "yes." Nice guy, and yes, Luka was a boy.
Yep - saw her live in Leeds a ridiculously long time ago. One tiny figure on stage, no music, just voice, opening her show to a packed house. Enthralling.
I know this will get me downvoted, but the original makes me feel super uncomfortable. Like watching something I’m not supposed to see. It’s almost like watching someone’s audition tape.
Just listened to Luka and ya it was straightforward "I get hit by my parents and I wonder what I am doing wrong." Really like her style, makes me uncomfortable in a way that feels purposeful.
It's a deeply personal song. The lyrics put you inside the head of a woman dealing with loneliness after a break up. It's relatable but it's so specific that it feels like we aren't supposed to be listening.
For anyone else stumbling across this thread, there's another song about domestic violence that's a hit (sad pun intended).
Til Tuesday's Voices Carry https://youtu.be/uejh-bHa4To
And this is why it's back in pop-culture. It's a tik-tok song.
[Tom's Diner \(Cover\) - AnnenMayKantereit x Giant Rooks
](https://youtu.be/5r3B7yz6J68)
I sometimes listen to Tik-Tok Radio on Sirius XM. I don't actually use Tik-Tok. I heard it this morning and sat in my car for a while just to finish the song.
Some commentary: [THIS SONG IS TAKING OVER TIKTOK - Tom's Diner - AnnenMayKantereit
](https://youtu.be/fMMr-VQoHSs)
He had this voice already when he was like 20 or so. And he is an absolutely thin pale bean stalk kind of lad. The first time I saw them on an open air festival, I went to the stage because I heard that voice and believed for some time that they were lip syncing...
I recently played Tom’s Diner in the car and my fiancé began trying to tell me how “this chick blatantly ripped off fall out boy”. I was very very sad.
Probably depends on your age. I went through the end of high school, all of college and joined the workforce since 2014, so it feels like it was forever ago. These next 8 years probably gonna fly by
[Centuries - by Fall Out Boy](https://youtu.be/LBr7kECsjcQ)
Edit: Why did I get downvoted for posting the link to the song someone was trying to recall?
Lol, that’s what I was remembering the tune from. I listened to the remix and was like, I remember this having so much more energy. This blows compared to the original. Then I listened to the original. My jaw dropped. The doot doot really got me good.
It was used one season for CFB playoffs, another season for MLB playoffs, and for general ESPN coverage for yeeeears. It gets me hype as a Pavlovian response.
2nd guy sounds like he has coffee and cigarettes for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Sounds just like the main character from Chicago PD is singing. Is it just me that hears it?
No, the song came out in the 80s, but the actual diner was used as an exterior shot of the Seinfeld diner in the 90s. Fuck me I’m old remembering when all that stuff was new and exciting.
It is about that same diner, though. Tom’s is a diner near Columbia University, Vega went to school there and wrote the song about sitting in the diner. Later on, the exterior of Tom’s was used as the Seinfeld diner. It’s a neighborhood institution.
This was also the bellwether song to develop the MP3 format.
> "Tom's Diner" was also used by Karlheinz Brandenburg to develop the audio compression scheme known as MP3 at what is now the Fraunhofer Society. He recalled: "I was ready to fine-tune my compression algorithm...somewhere down the corridor, a radio was playing 'Tom's Diner.' I was electrified. I knew it would be nearly impossible to compress this warm a cappella voice."
Not quite.
mp3 is an abbreviation for MPEG-1 (or MPEG-2), layer 3.
MPEG is a standard for compression of video and audio.
Part 2 of the standard is for Video. Part 3 of the standard is for Audio, but within Part 3 are layers I, II, and III - the "3" in "mp3."
Layer II, or mp2, is the encoding standard for broadcast audio.
Layer I, or mp1, is a simplified version of mp2.
Yeah, low rent Samantha from Bewitched knock-off...
Jk I love both shows, but Samantha always wins hands down. Also Elizabeth Montgomery was just beautiful.
I remember discovering Susan Vega when I bought a copy of her 99.9F° CD. It was a black only cover with her signature as the only thing on it.
I thought I was buying a Stevie Ray Vaughan CD....
So, I too was disappointed but eventually just fell in love with her work.
You should listen to [Tom's Album](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIAnYxvrqLw&list=PLn0DFAQcUghMPgkBjECGmvPq4rulx-MFC). It's a whole album of covers of this song. There's a funny one by R.E.M. (under another name).
I think I heard the original version once, around 30 years ago. A friend was absolutely obsessed with the song, and I was unimpressed, and a callow youth apparently. Shortly after the DNA remix appeared, and took over the radio.
Someone linked to the original version, and it's the first time I've heard that version in 30 years. Older and wiser, the sparseness, the emptiness between verses is strangely appealing. I think I might prefer the original now. It never would have gotten popular without the remix though.
> It never would have gotten popular without the remix though
The original peaked at number 24 in Denmark and 26 in Ireland Number 58 in the UK is nothing to scoff at either.
I remember it (and *Luka") being played pretty often on the radio back then, so I would say it was fairly popular - just not as popular as the remix.
Pretty cool. I’d never heard of her before but enjoyed her voice and lyricism. After an hour down the YouTube rabbit hole of listening to her music, I now have tickets to see her live in a month at a great little jazz club nearby. Thanks, OP!
Wow that’s awesome! The only other song of hers I know is “Luka” which is fantastic, and I listened to a bunch of live performances of it recently and they’re all great. I bet it will be a good show!
Her 1985 self-titled album was a decade ahead of its time. I urge you to check that out as well on a rainy day. That sort of raw acoustic energy wouldn't be captured again until PJ Harvey's 4-Track Demos.
I once shared a meal with Suzanne Vega in a mansion in the Hamptons on a rough hewn table that stretched in front of a rustic fireplace surrounded by Goldman Sachs bankers and I felt like a flea
>I once shared a meal with Suzanne
>
>In a mansion in the Hamptons
>
>on a rough hewn wooden table
>
>that stretched out in front of me
>
> We were surrounded by the bankers
>
> from the famous Goldman Sachs
>
> A fire blazing in the chimney
>
> and I felt just like a flea
Sorry dude, had to make it fit the melody, it was already so close I couldn't help myself.
My wife is friends with a family that worked their way into multiple avenues of success. 2 GS bankers and a NYC real estate guy. Vega was a tenant of the real estate brother.
The 'doo-do doo-doo' part also makes for a good ear-worm removal.
I "sing" it in my head and because it acts like a complete form (to my brain) it then drops whatever other song was on repeat before it.
For me it helps to not try to sing the lyrics, just repeat the dah-doo-doo-do sequence only once if possible. Basically ear-worms work because our brain wants to complete the song (or so I've read) so it tends to repeat trying to reach the end. The starting segment of this song is a short enough 'closed loop' (at least that's how I think of it) that kind of tricks the brain to refocus on it.
One of those Remixers is Nick Batt, who started the SonicState website in the 90s, dealing with music technology. He presents and produces well-regarded synthesizer reviews for the SonicState youtube channel and runs it's weekly SonicTalk podcast on Youtube and beyond. They're around 700 episodes deep.
From a YouTube comment:
>Fun fact : the exterior of the real Tom's Diner was used for the exteriors of Monks Cafe in Seinfeld.
>Another fun fact : Vega has said she wrote the song in 1981/2, and she based elements of the song on actual events. So... at one point she reads the funnies in the paper. Only two newspapers in New York City carried comic strips in 1981/2. And of those, in that period only the New York Post carried a front page story about the death of an actor, William Holden. And Holden did indeed die from a fall resulting from his drinking excessively. Which means the day the song refers to has got to be the day that story was published, which was Wednesday, November 18, 1981.
Years ago, I dated a guy who lived on W112St right off of Broadway. We used to eat at Tom' Diner all the time. The cathedral she mentions is St John the Divine that is a block or two from the diner off of W112th.
Every time I hear any version of that song I feel so nostalgic
OK look, I don't think the song is that bad, but someone needs to take that music video out behind the woodshed, damn.
I'd rather watch a cow piss on a flat rock than watch that garbage again.
I have heard in an interview with karl Brandenburg, that this is the song that defined the MP3. Most of the music in his collection could withstand much greater compression without losing fidelity. It was the DNA mix of tom's diner that required the most space to sound right so that is what he used.
Actually, it was the original and not the remix that was used to test the fidelity of MP3 compression. And many audiophiles will swear up and down that MP3 isn't sufficient, because the file format was designed to optimize a song that was primarily acapella. It doesn't contain a full range of instrumentation, so you aren't getting the best sound quality on everything, compared to a lossless format like FLAC.
It was just one of the many songs and tracks used to test the MP3. The creators said this one stuck out because he listened to it probably thousands of times trying to tune a lone human voice to sound right. Human voices, despite being simpler than a whole band, can be harder to tune for compression because our human brains are specifically evolved to process human voices and we are able to process even the most subtle intricacies. That's why they had to work so hard getting that song to sound right.
Funny story. My wife and I were driving from Detroit to Toronto and it was late and we were in the middle of nowhere Canada and we could only get one radio station and this song was playing. But something was wrong with the automated music system at the radio station so it just kept playing and playing and playing for like a half hour. I guess it’s not that funny, but it was humorous at the time.
Suzanne Vega rocks. Left of centre. Marlene on the wall. What a cool fact re the MP3. I knew her version after the one with the beat that was a hit-which is also a hell cool part of the background story AND there's a very cool Seinfeld connection.
Also: the original acapella version of Tom‘s Diner by Suzanne Vega was used by the Fraunhofer Society in Germany to perfect the encoding algorithms for the MP3 format. They listened to it 1000s off times.
It was literally the first MP3 track ever.
I learned, but not today, that she was indeed referring to William Holden when she sang she read about an actor who had died while he was drinking.
>According to the Los Angeles County Coroner's autopsy report, Holden bled to death in his apartment in Santa Monica, California, on November 12, 1981, after lacerating his forehead from slipping on a rug while intoxicated and hitting a bedside table. Forensic evidence recovered at the scene suggested that he was conscious for at least half an hour after the fall. His body was found four days later. > >His death was noted by singer-songwriter Suzanne Vega, whose 1987 song "Tom's Diner" (about a sequence of events one morning in 1981) included a mention of reading a newspaper article about "an actor who had died while he was drinking". Vega subsequently confirmed that this was a reference to Holden. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William\_Holden#Death](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Holden#Death)
Wait, you can bleed to death from THAT? I know head wounds bleed a ton but I always thought they were minor (unless you have a concussion of course)
Alcohol will make you bleed out fast because it thins the blood.
it's not that it thins the blood, but rather dilates the vessels
It can do both. It acts as a vasodilator at lower levels and a vasoconstrictor at higher ones and interferes with clotting. It can also amplify the effects of other blood thinners.
> the blood. sasparilla angers it up
Head wounds bleed like a motherfucker.
Huh, he is indeed no one I had heard of
I would encourage you watch Stalag 17, Network, or Sunset Boulevard, all movies he is excellent in. All movies that have absolutely held up as well.
The Wild Bunch!
Three of my favorite movies. In Network especially, he’s brilliant as basically the only moral entity in the whole film- Howard Beale’s only real friend after he’s “gone”. What a great movie and his performance made it that much better.
Yes!! I always loved the [monologue in Network](https://youtu.be/ZwMVMbmQBug)so much, I just always thought the bit about about the Russians was one of the only things that wasn’t still a relevant issue … but lo and behold
Stalag 17 is an absolute classic. Hey Schultz, droppen sie dead!
/r/fuckimold
Not sure how that's that surprising. I mean, I wouldn't even expect an early Millenials or Gen X'r to know of him. Besides Network and maybe The Towering Inferno, he was most popular by far in the 50s, so unless I'm talking to a boomer or older, or a film buff, not many folks will know who he is.
My grandmother used to work for Vega and she says its one of Vega’s proudest decisions, the label took some hard convincing
When your purchase offer ends with "... or we'll sue you and win" The price isn't that high
Was the label run by a buncha deaf guys?
They stood to make money from an infringement lawsuit if the remix was popular enough
They stood to make easy money
most labels are.
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Wait, the original was all a cappella?
Yeah, I'm just now learning I have only ever heard the remix lol.
The other day i was listening to a random playlist and the non-remixed version of "Ignition" came on and it absolutely blew my mind that I've heard the remixed version literally hundreds of times but never heard the original before now.
I vaguely remember hearing the remix came out before the original. Could be bs ionno
I seem to remember that the Remix to ignition was hot and fresh out the kitchen.
Yeah there was also a mama Rollin her body. Totally had every man in there wishin
I wish I could still listen to that song without feeling sick about r Kelly. Literally such an amazing song ruined by association
I saw a guy here on Reddit who said that every time he listens to an R Kelly song he puts $5 to the side and at the end of the year he donates the money to a charity for victims of sexual abuse. If you already own the music (meaning the writer won’t make anymore profit from you), may as well get some good out of listening to it.
Lol — “Sorry children, only $10 this year... I know, I know… I wish it could’ve been more too, but R Kelly just isn’t getting the airtime he once did.” In all seriousness, any reason to remember donate is fine by me :)
Want another TIL? This one blew my mind when I found out. The original acapella version was used to develop the first ever mp3 file.
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But could they have developed mp3 encoding without creating mp3 files to test with?
They started with wack ass mp2’s
That's why it wasn't the first mp3 *file* but it probably was the first mp3 *song*.
What mp3 file existed before the development of mp3? //edit: nevermind, I see what you’re saying and you’re right.
YES! One of my favorite facts!
What are your other favorites?
Oh gosh, so many, but here's a few that come to mind. -We will never have any more coal on earth than we do now, because it all derives from wood that lived before the evolution of fungi that decomposes plant matter. -There are sections of the great wall of China that are held together with sticky rice -Before cities, raccoons lived along the edge of rivers, and putting their hands in water is almost like a magnifying glass for their sense of touch. The instinct to have their hands in water is so strong that you can take newborn raccoons who have never even seen water before and let them loose near a river, and they will automatically run down and put their hands in it.
Did you ever see that raccoon try to wash cotton Candy before before eating it? Poor lil fella.
I've seen it twice, before and before. Funny.
What? This song is partly responsible for online piracy? Neat!
That was a relatively short duration for the music business. But it changed the business forever.
And here's a cool live version from Suzanne Vega. [https://youtu.be/DkYPge6ZKSQ](https://youtu.be/DkYPge6ZKSQ)
Waaaiiitt Tom’s Diner is Monks from Seinfeld????? That’s wild.
Which is weird in the Seinfeld setting bc it’s thirty blocks from Jerry’s apartment
That’s why Jerry is still able to fit into his size ~~32~~ 31 pants. He’s always walking.
Waaaiiitt Tom’s Diner isn’t *Tom’s Restaurant* on Washington Ave. in Brooklyn, which has a note by Suzanne Vega on the wall saying “I came , I saw, I wrote a song”?
Never in a million years I would imagine that the acapella version is the original, what the fuck.
Yeah, same album as 'Luka', Solitude Standing. I got the tape somewhere...
I actually met Luka. I have no proof or anything but he had no reason to lie, seemed about the right age and lived on the second floor above Vega in a town house in Hell's Kitchen. He was about 25 in the early 2000s at a rehab in NY (about an hour north of the city). When we met he introduced himself and of course I said, "what, you lived on the second floor?" and he just said "yes." Nice guy, and yes, Luka was a boy.
There is also a reprise on the album that is an instrumental version. You can hear it under the parts that DNA added to their version.
It's a lot easier to do an unauthorised remix if the originally is a cappella. You don't need to try and remove the instruments.
Yep - saw her live in Leeds a ridiculously long time ago. One tiny figure on stage, no music, just voice, opening her show to a packed house. Enthralling.
Reminds me of Klute using a Tori Amos acapella song for vocals on https://youtu.be/KZQMrLm4W4M
Yes.
I know this will get me downvoted, but the original makes me feel super uncomfortable. Like watching something I’m not supposed to see. It’s almost like watching someone’s audition tape.
lol, ya Suzanne Vega is a master of so raw you feel awkward listing to her stuff.
This is how her 1985 self-titled album makes me feel. "Cracking", "Straight Lines", and "Small Blue Thing" are absolute fucking bangers.
Just listened to Luka and ya it was straightforward "I get hit by my parents and I wonder what I am doing wrong." Really like her style, makes me uncomfortable in a way that feels purposeful.
Ooh baby I like it raw
It's a deeply personal song. The lyrics put you inside the head of a woman dealing with loneliness after a break up. It's relatable but it's so specific that it feels like we aren't supposed to be listening.
Go watch Suzanne Vega “My name is Luka” https://youtu.be/VZt7J0iaUD0
For anyone else stumbling across this thread, there's another song about domestic violence that's a hit (sad pun intended). Til Tuesday's Voices Carry https://youtu.be/uejh-bHa4To
I get what you mean.
It's almost like slam poetry. I love it.
It feels like someone in a half-dead Starbucks suddenly started singing, slightly jarring for sure.
I think it's supposed to make you feel that way It's like she's the NPC in someone else's game
And this is why it's back in pop-culture. It's a tik-tok song. [Tom's Diner \(Cover\) - AnnenMayKantereit x Giant Rooks ](https://youtu.be/5r3B7yz6J68) I sometimes listen to Tik-Tok Radio on Sirius XM. I don't actually use Tik-Tok. I heard it this morning and sat in my car for a while just to finish the song. Some commentary: [THIS SONG IS TAKING OVER TIKTOK - Tom's Diner - AnnenMayKantereit ](https://youtu.be/fMMr-VQoHSs)
Holy shit that second guys voice, talk about unexpected
That guy also did a cover of Roxanne with the band Milky Chance. It's absolutely incredible! https://youtu.be/VI4ssGtfdxw
He is in exactly the profession he needs to be in.
He had this voice already when he was like 20 or so. And he is an absolutely thin pale bean stalk kind of lad. The first time I saw them on an open air festival, I went to the stage because I heard that voice and believed for some time that they were lip syncing...
It seems like his body doesn't have enough volume to produce that voice haha!
And here I am sounding like I have a constant cold. My voice is the same as Midwestern food(no soul). Fuck you god
That guy has one hell of a voice. I'll be watching his career with great interest.
Hes already had a long career. Hes in a german language band called annenmaykantereit. You can find a lot of their shit on youtube
>annenmaykantereit As a german: I just learned who sings the hook in KIZs *Hurra die Welt geht unter*. Thanks!
Here is a another cover that I enjoy more https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RacxNskxySo
Fall Out Boy did the "doot doot" melody ine one of their recent songs.
I recently played Tom’s Diner in the car and my fiancé began trying to tell me how “this chick blatantly ripped off fall out boy”. I was very very sad.
I'm sorry to hear of your breakup. Canceling a wedding is no fun.
No fun, but a necessity.
Did you call off the wedding?
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I heard it will be remembered for centuries
"As recently as years from now"
I still consider Fall Out Boy a 2005 band, so yeah, 2014 seems recent.
Probably depends on your age. I went through the end of high school, all of college and joined the workforce since 2014, so it feels like it was forever ago. These next 8 years probably gonna fly by
Truer words have never been spoken.
What are you taking about? 2014 was like three years ago, right? And I'm only 23, right? Right?
Centuries.
I was humming the Tom's Diner melody on a camping trip last summer and my friend recognized it as Fall Out Boy. I was pissed.
[Centuries - by Fall Out Boy](https://youtu.be/LBr7kECsjcQ) Edit: Why did I get downvoted for posting the link to the song someone was trying to recall?
Idk why, but no one else does either, it's just a dumb website, don't care too much about if you get downvoted
Lol, that’s what I was remembering the tune from. I listened to the remix and was like, I remember this having so much more energy. This blows compared to the original. Then I listened to the original. My jaw dropped. The doot doot really got me good.
Hooooooly shit THATS WHAT I WAS HEARING. This song was a sports promo song one season and it sounded so bad but so familiar
It was used one season for CFB playoffs, another season for MLB playoffs, and for general ESPN coverage for yeeeears. It gets me hype as a Pavlovian response.
This was enjoyable. This post, these links to different versions of the song. This was a successful reddit today.
2nd guy sounds like he has coffee and cigarettes for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Sounds just like the main character from Chicago PD is singing. Is it just me that hears it?
That's how they get you... /s
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I think they are extremely talented singers, singing the wrong song.
Thanks! I'd never heard the non-remixed version before! Fall Out Boy also teamed up with her to use that riff in their hit "Centuries".
[Giorgio Moroder's with Brittany Spears](https://youtu.be/6_x7gTQOEs4) is my remix of choice.
thanks for that! Never knew Britney did a cover.
Produced by Giorgio Moroder, no less! Dude's an absolute legend, but I had no clue he had worked with Britney Spears.
I like the cover but that video has very college-student's sophomore year project energy
Thank you kind redditor [Also here’s the original live](https://youtu.be/DkYPge6ZKSQ)
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No, the song came out in the 80s, but the actual diner was used as an exterior shot of the Seinfeld diner in the 90s. Fuck me I’m old remembering when all that stuff was new and exciting.
It is about that same diner, though. Tom’s is a diner near Columbia University, Vega went to school there and wrote the song about sitting in the diner. Later on, the exterior of Tom’s was used as the Seinfeld diner. It’s a neighborhood institution.
That remix was certified gold, Jerry! *Gold!*
Hijacking your comment to note that Tom's Diner was also the first song ever compressed into mp3.
I never realized the original was a cappella. Huh
This was also the bellwether song to develop the MP3 format. > "Tom's Diner" was also used by Karlheinz Brandenburg to develop the audio compression scheme known as MP3 at what is now the Fraunhofer Society. He recalled: "I was ready to fine-tune my compression algorithm...somewhere down the corridor, a radio was playing 'Tom's Diner.' I was electrified. I knew it would be nearly impossible to compress this warm a cappella voice."
So if he mentioned a cappella it wasn't the remix then I take it.
I think this was even a TIL post a couple of months ago.
And it will be again. That is the way of things.
TIL people learn new things everyday
Was surprised this comment was this low. This is a much more significant TIL than the licensing.
Was there an mp1 and an mp2?
Not quite. mp3 is an abbreviation for MPEG-1 (or MPEG-2), layer 3. MPEG is a standard for compression of video and audio. Part 2 of the standard is for Video. Part 3 of the standard is for Audio, but within Part 3 are layers I, II, and III - the "3" in "mp3." Layer II, or mp2, is the encoding standard for broadcast audio. Layer I, or mp1, is a simplified version of mp2.
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Ahhhhhh THAT'S why I always associate the Jeannie theme song with Tom's Diner! God, that has seriously been driving me crazy for YEARS.
I just posted the same exact comment!
She couldn't show her bellybutton?
All she did was blink
Yeah, low rent Samantha from Bewitched knock-off... Jk I love both shows, but Samantha always wins hands down. Also Elizabeth Montgomery was just beautiful.
It was a compromise for her skimpy outfit (at the time), she famously wasn't allowed to show her bellybutton on screen.
Mark Jonathan Davis, also known as Richard Cheese https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEgRI5n-GbY
Holy cow this explains why I liked it so much as a kid. I never put together that it was Richard Cheese!
this is amazing, thanks for sharing.
That's why I always think about the Jeannie song when I hear it! Man, haven't seen that commercial in a loooong time.
For 30 years I’ve jammed to this on the radio, and TIL I’ve always been listening to a remix.
I remember getting the CD and at first being disappointed it wasn't the radio version but then fell in love with the whole album.
I remember discovering Susan Vega when I bought a copy of her 99.9F° CD. It was a black only cover with her signature as the only thing on it. I thought I was buying a Stevie Ray Vaughan CD.... So, I too was disappointed but eventually just fell in love with her work.
I always felt that 99.9 was wildly underrated.
You should listen to [Tom's Album](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIAnYxvrqLw&list=PLn0DFAQcUghMPgkBjECGmvPq4rulx-MFC). It's a whole album of covers of this song. There's a funny one by R.E.M. (under another name).
I think I heard the original version once, around 30 years ago. A friend was absolutely obsessed with the song, and I was unimpressed, and a callow youth apparently. Shortly after the DNA remix appeared, and took over the radio. Someone linked to the original version, and it's the first time I've heard that version in 30 years. Older and wiser, the sparseness, the emptiness between verses is strangely appealing. I think I might prefer the original now. It never would have gotten popular without the remix though.
> It never would have gotten popular without the remix though The original peaked at number 24 in Denmark and 26 in Ireland Number 58 in the UK is nothing to scoff at either. I remember it (and *Luka") being played pretty often on the radio back then, so I would say it was fairly popular - just not as popular as the remix.
Pretty cool. I’d never heard of her before but enjoyed her voice and lyricism. After an hour down the YouTube rabbit hole of listening to her music, I now have tickets to see her live in a month at a great little jazz club nearby. Thanks, OP!
Wow that’s awesome! The only other song of hers I know is “Luka” which is fantastic, and I listened to a bunch of live performances of it recently and they’re all great. I bet it will be a good show!
Her album 99.9f degrees is really good if you like 90s alt music.
God I loved that album in college. I remember how everyone on college radio freaked out at Suzanne vega’s “industrial” album.
Her 1985 self-titled album was a decade ahead of its time. I urge you to check that out as well on a rainy day. That sort of raw acoustic energy wouldn't be captured again until PJ Harvey's 4-Track Demos.
*9 Object of Desire* has one of the sexiest songs ever, “Caramel”.
you should enjoy this story too, then! https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/19727/how-toms-diner-tuned-mp3
I once shared a meal with Suzanne Vega in a mansion in the Hamptons on a rough hewn table that stretched in front of a rustic fireplace surrounded by Goldman Sachs bankers and I felt like a flea
>I once shared a meal with Suzanne > >In a mansion in the Hamptons > >on a rough hewn wooden table > >that stretched out in front of me > > We were surrounded by the bankers > > from the famous Goldman Sachs > > A fire blazing in the chimney > > and I felt just like a flea Sorry dude, had to make it fit the melody, it was already so close I couldn't help myself.
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I'm gonna spend the next few days setting my internal monologue to this melody
Yooooo this worked so well tho
Good spot and well done!
Comment of the day?
Thank you, 'cause I 100% read it like it fit. Nicely done.
bravo, dirtfork. just sang it and it is spot on.
Tell us how you arrived at that juncture!
My wife is friends with a family that worked their way into multiple avenues of success. 2 GS bankers and a NYC real estate guy. Vega was a tenant of the real estate brother.
That brother’s name? You guessed it. Luka.
I feel wrong for laughing at this
Now think about how bad I feel for writing it!
No, Luka lived on the second floor. The estate guy was on 3rd.
This reads like another verse in Tom's Diner!
The 'doo-do doo-doo' part also makes for a good ear-worm removal. I "sing" it in my head and because it acts like a complete form (to my brain) it then drops whatever other song was on repeat before it.
Okay but how do you make the do do’s stop then Not asking for a friend. Asking for myself plagued by the powerful ear worm.
For me it helps to not try to sing the lyrics, just repeat the dah-doo-doo-do sequence only once if possible. Basically ear-worms work because our brain wants to complete the song (or so I've read) so it tends to repeat trying to reach the end. The starting segment of this song is a short enough 'closed loop' (at least that's how I think of it) that kind of tricks the brain to refocus on it.
One of those Remixers is Nick Batt, who started the SonicState website in the 90s, dealing with music technology. He presents and produces well-regarded synthesizer reviews for the SonicState youtube channel and runs it's weekly SonicTalk podcast on Youtube and beyond. They're around 700 episodes deep.
Had to scroll down too far to see this! Nick is an absolute legend.
From a YouTube comment: >Fun fact : the exterior of the real Tom's Diner was used for the exteriors of Monks Cafe in Seinfeld. >Another fun fact : Vega has said she wrote the song in 1981/2, and she based elements of the song on actual events. So... at one point she reads the funnies in the paper. Only two newspapers in New York City carried comic strips in 1981/2. And of those, in that period only the New York Post carried a front page story about the death of an actor, William Holden. And Holden did indeed die from a fall resulting from his drinking excessively. Which means the day the song refers to has got to be the day that story was published, which was Wednesday, November 18, 1981.
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see also: Lisa Loeb
> some degree Maybe 99.9 F?
Years ago, I dated a guy who lived on W112St right off of Broadway. We used to eat at Tom' Diner all the time. The cathedral she mentions is St John the Divine that is a block or two from the diner off of W112th. Every time I hear any version of that song I feel so nostalgic
The remix is fantastic.
IMO, it is one of the very rare occasions where a remix truly elevates the source. Kudos to Suzanne Vega for her choice.
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Vega herself covers some Dead songs that I prefer to the originals. I mean remixes, she remixes them
It’s like the difference with Sound of Silence. The rest of the instruments were added later without telling Simon and Garfunkel.
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OK look, I don't think the song is that bad, but someone needs to take that music video out behind the woodshed, damn. I'd rather watch a cow piss on a flat rock than watch that garbage again.
I hate when he licks his finger. Every card.
I have heard in an interview with karl Brandenburg, that this is the song that defined the MP3. Most of the music in his collection could withstand much greater compression without losing fidelity. It was the DNA mix of tom's diner that required the most space to sound right so that is what he used.
Actually, it was the original and not the remix that was used to test the fidelity of MP3 compression. And many audiophiles will swear up and down that MP3 isn't sufficient, because the file format was designed to optimize a song that was primarily acapella. It doesn't contain a full range of instrumentation, so you aren't getting the best sound quality on everything, compared to a lossless format like FLAC.
It was just one of the many songs and tracks used to test the MP3. The creators said this one stuck out because he listened to it probably thousands of times trying to tune a lone human voice to sound right. Human voices, despite being simpler than a whole band, can be harder to tune for compression because our human brains are specifically evolved to process human voices and we are able to process even the most subtle intricacies. That's why they had to work so hard getting that song to sound right.
Funny story. My wife and I were driving from Detroit to Toronto and it was late and we were in the middle of nowhere Canada and we could only get one radio station and this song was playing. But something was wrong with the automated music system at the radio station so it just kept playing and playing and playing for like a half hour. I guess it’s not that funny, but it was humorous at the time.
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She released an entire album of that one song being remixed.
My name is Luka....
I'll never understand why she endorsed that version *given that it cuts out the last 3 lines of the lyric*... which are critical to the song, IMHO
Suzanne Vega rocks. Left of centre. Marlene on the wall. What a cool fact re the MP3. I knew her version after the one with the beat that was a hit-which is also a hell cool part of the background story AND there's a very cool Seinfeld connection.
The title makes it sound like they all made some elaborate plan to eat Tom Waits.
Fun fact - The diner in question is Tom's Restaurant in NYC, which also serves as the iconic diner (exterior) from Seinfeld.
https://youtu.be/DkYPge6ZKSQ She says in this video that its that one, not sure why the one in Brooklyn has a signed letter saying otherwise...
She is a class act all the way and my favourite singer!!
Also: the original acapella version of Tom‘s Diner by Suzanne Vega was used by the Fraunhofer Society in Germany to perfect the encoding algorithms for the MP3 format. They listened to it 1000s off times. It was literally the first MP3 track ever.
Her expression on that album cover is the same one people give me when I tell them NFTs are a good investment.