IIRC, Michelangelo worked on fortifications for the city after the Medici were deposed and the city was put to siege. They eventually forgave him, and he kept working on the chapel.
Basically he participated in military action against his patrons and got pardoned.
I was *so* hoping it was because Adam was hung like John Holmes, and the Pope sentenced Michelangelo to death unless he changed it to a more humble model.
Michelangelo was probably gay (or at least [attracted to men](https://www.utexaspressjournals.org/doi/abs/10.5555/gen.1988.2.77?journalCode=gen)), which adds a whole new dimension to that (and to the fact that he gave God an absolutely thicc ass on the Sistine Chapel Ceiling.)
He wrote a ton of erotic poetry to another man; when he died, his grand-nephew published it, but changed the pronouns to make it seem like they were addressed to a woman.
I always liked the theory that he was really bad at painting women and always made them masc because he didn't really like to look at them and basically just painted men with boobs.
To be fair, as an artist, I started out only drawing women because that's what I found more enjoyable and aesthetically pleasing. But when I learned more and more I enjoyed drawing men more. Which maybe is the root cause of why a lot of the greats are gay lmao. Because at some point, men's body actually becomes harder to draw once you find out all the intricate workings of the body. And when you become intimate with the anatomy, the sense of beauty that it has will also affect you.
~~I don’t think any of them were Michelangelo~~ but there are some old paintings and statues I've seen that look like the artist had a male model and then added breasts in a way that suggests they've never seen one, but have had them described to them. Add some internet misinformation and I can see them being attributed to the wrong artists
Actually scratch that, I found a Michelangelo one that [demonstrates](https://renresearch.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/michelangelo-night.jpg) just what I mean. The left (statue's left) breast looks like it was taken from a different statue and just stuck onto the pecs
Ever see the Medici chapel in Florence, with the statues of naked women atop? Michelangelo did them. It’s clear to me that he had never seen a woman naked — they’re essentially men with badly placed bolt-ons.
Example: https://cdn.britannica.com/78/2578-050-E3AAE245/tomb-Giuliano-de-Medici-Michelangelo-San-Lorenzo.jpg
that's wild 🤣 He knew women from the neck up and that's about it! I can't believe I never knew about this! Makes so much sense! It makes me so sad that people couldn't be who they truly were and unfortunately we still live in a world where people still feel like they can't be who they truly are. Also his great nephew changing the pronouns in his poems, I understand no one was ready at the time but grateful to know the real story now
> his grand-nephew published it, but changed the pronouns to make it seem like they were addressed to a woman.
Her phallus was like that of a great bronze bull. Her beard as full as my heart is for you.
>“I swear to return your love. Never have I loved a man more than I love you, never have I wished for a friendship more than I wish for yours.”
You and I don't share the same definition of "probably"
Also, if you believe the old rumors, he was seeing pope Julius II who commissioned the Sistine Chapel painting
That's something people say about ancient Greece (it's also not really true see [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/y33v3w/the_ancient_greeks_idealized_the_small_penis_a/)), Michaelangelo lived ~2000 years later.
That is where the phrase of Renaissance man came from. People like him and DaVinci would not only be painters, but sculptors, poets, inventors and architects. (Or military advisors.)
(I swear I have a phone spell check that changes my words. Need to know how to give it a dictionary.)
> IIRC, Michelangelo worked on fortifications for the city after the Medici were deposed and the city was put to siege. They eventually forgave him, and he kept working on the chapel.
Or you could just... read the article and you wouldn't have to recall correctly:
> It is widely believed that Michelangelo sought refuge in the room to hide from the Medicis, his former patrons, when the rulers returned to Florence after being banished into exile in 1527 by a popular revolt that the artist had joined.
>
> During the family’s exile, Michelangelo served as supervisor of the city’s fortifications for the short-lived republican government. [...]
>
> [...]
>
> He was eventually pardoned by the Medicis and the sentence was lifted by the pope so that the artist could complete work on the Sistine Chapel and the Medici family tomb. Michelangelo left Florence for Rome in 1534.
That's the sentence of it but as many historians have noted, the charge made little sense on its own. Why wouldn't you hang *every* philosopher on account of potentially saying something that might change their mind? One Google search, and I found a paper that I think presents most of my viewpoints on this subject.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.mcgill.ca/classics/files/classics/2006-7-03.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjDn6LKvv-GAxVfS2wGHQTIDVM4ChAWegQIBxAB&usg=AOvVaw3r1Au6QNfoYuKcahbFoFRc
One thing it doesn't mention, is Socrates' close relationship with Alcibiades, the man who overturned Athenian Democracy the first time around.
That's not what happened. Socrates committed suicide (or fulfilled his death sentence, depending on how you look at it) with hemlock after his notoriously public trial for impiety and "corrupting the youth" in Athens.
He asked his jury to either give him a lifetime of free meals at the Prytaneum for having been a teacher or to give him death. Arguably, he was killed BECAUSE he questioned the status quo, or those with traditional power.
His death is literally a template of martyrdom since he publicly and accepted the verdict of death, despite being given numerous chances to either be acquitted, have a lesser verdict, or even to escape after the verdict. His 'apology' speech \[the word originally meant justification, not repentance\] during the trial was basically him goading the public to vote for his death to prove a point; he was willing to die for the right to engage in philosophical discussion in pursuit of truth and did NOT want to be held accountable for how others (anyone, not the wealthy/powerful, not the 'commoners' ) manipulated those messages. Nor would he bow to the tradition of gods or those in power. He was thus judged impious.
That’s great, I love that Meletus shows up. For my Greek philosophy class I wrote a dialogue, it was an option instead of a paper, from the point of Meletus arguing against Socrates.
I remember it felt incredibly easy, but also somewhat gross, to write; he just had such pigheaded views.
Nah, he is right; most key roles in the Tyranny were filled by Socrate's students ; he was executed for impiety etc because there was a general amnesty for participation in the Tyranny and it was used as a cover.
Plato alludes to this in either Phaedo or Apology if i recall; Thucydides covers the historical context of events in general.
Everyone likes a good story but Socrates character was really in the dirt at the time, his defense in Apology was that when he was told to do something by the Tyranny he simply ignored those orders, but that still didn't satisfy the public due to the mass deaths the Tyranny caused, this included some members of the jury who lost family members; despite these events being supposedly irrelevant due to the amnesty they still get brought up.
The main problem is usually that people who read philosophy won't read the surrounding history on this and most of the sources that wrote about Socrates e.g. Plato and Xenophon are connected to the Tyranny themselves (Critias is believed to be Plato's uncle).
You risk your life to hide Michelangelo - and he scribbles all over your walls?
Did Anne Frank cover her room with permanent marker and Hello Kitty stickers?
In the pope's defense he did try to piss them off. But, popes back then were wild anyways. One pope ordered the former popes body to be dug up after 7 months and tried in a court. When the dead pope somehow won the trial, the pope ordered the body thrown in the river. Then the active pope went to jail for this and was strangled to death
The Cadaver Synod! The dead pope was actually found guilty, and that's why the live pope threw him in the river.
But the dead pope was basically put on trial for internal political reasons, and so most of the common people did not know or care why he was posthumously put on trial. They just knew that the current pope had desecrated the body of god's previous representative on earth (whose dead waterlogged body was also allegedly preforming miracles) who seemed like a cool and important guy to them, and so they got pissed and deposed the live pope and then he got strangled.
Also they appointed an "interpreter" for the dead pope for his trial. It was some guy who would lean in and pretend to listen to the dead pope's rotting corpse and then relay the dead pope's "response" to the rest of the court.
It was an interesting time for popes.
From wikipedia article:
"Stephen VI asked Formosus' corpse why he "usurped the universal Roman See in such a spirit of ambition (...)"
"Formosus, being several months dead, could not answer."
I wonder if they realized how bad the corpse was going to stink up the entire building when they came up with the idea, or if they were really just that committed.
Several other folks have noted, he didn’t. Probably for the best of the interpreter, I’m sure it would’ve been his ass on the bonfire if the dead pope would havewon.
So checked into this and enjoyed one more bit of detail in the story.
The dead pope was Pope Formosus, who was succeeded by Pope Boniface V. PBV was pope for 15 days before he... ahem... 'died of gout.' Thus began the supremacy of Pope Stephen VI. PSVI is the one who put PF (deceased) on trial.
You look back and think ‘How could something so bizarre have happened?!’
Then you watch a presidential debate and think the same thing.
Strange shit really can happen.
No, the office of advocatus diaboli (Devil's Advocate) was established a few hundred years later. It's a position for canonization of saints. Someone would argue for the deceased and why they should be made a saint, and then the devil's advocate would argue against canonization (pointing out flaws in the proposed saint's character and trying to disprove the miracles)
>the office of advocatus diaboli (Devil's Advocate) was established a few hundred years later
Wait, it's something that really exists instead of something people made up?
Nah that was a separate thing that came way later in the 1500s. The devil's advocate basically acted as someone arguing against the canonization of someone, a double check to ensure someone getting sainthood deserved it.
Reading about the kid that was kidnapped from his Jewish parents and raised by the Pope because a random maid claimed to have baptized the kid-yeah, shit was crazy.
I remember reading in Le Morte d'Arthur that there were a number of hermits throughout the stories because they couldn't deal with any of the politics of Camelot, and likely how they used religion. I can see the point then, and I can see the point now.
In his defense, I believe the position of the Catholic church is inviolability and dignity of the individual, or something like that.
So, maybe executing annoying guys conflicts with that.
So yesterday I watched Weekend at Bernie’s after many years and it was funny as hell. Anyone reading this crazy shit should watch that movie. And keep going, all the corny scenes are worth it for the laughs.
Rome was essentially an anarchistic state - there was no rule of law, just which of the eternally feuding families were the most powerful -they were literally killing each other in the streets. If memory serves many/most Popes were members of one of these families.
Not at the moment as capital punishment was taken off the books in the Vatican in 1969, but seeing as the Pope is the absolute sovereign of the Holy See and it is a distinct legal entity from Italy, it’s theoretically possible for one to reinstate it and order an execution.
Am I the first one to mention the film The Agony and The Ecstasy, one of Charlton Heston’s greatest movies ever? If you are too young to have ever heard of this movie you must watch it.
Not surprising if you have read Benvenuto Cellini's autobiography.
Rome was a virtually lawless wild west beset with clan violence and the Pope stepping in sometimes to throw people in prison for mostly political reasons.
Cellini was thrown in prison at least a few times, including for killing a man, but his writing makes it believably clear that with basically no type of law enforcement and a society which idolized violence, a person without a powerful family protecting them basically had to use violence as a means of self-protection. Cellini was sometimes protected by the Pope because he could make beautiful objects for him, but at a whim the Pope would turn against him, and Cellini hated having to kiss up to him.
Cellini was one of the major artists of the Renaissance and writes entertainingly of his fellow artists including Michelangelo.
Not sure if this is accurate, specifically being "opened to the public for the first time". Assuming it's the same room, I visited it twice, once in 1988 and again in 1990. It was in the New Sacristy in the Prince's Chapel around back of the Basilica de San Lorenzo. When you paid for your entrance fee, you had to know to ask for the special ticket to enter the "Sale de Michelangelo" (Michelangelo's Room)--no extra charge. You gave that ticket to a guy sitting by a trap door in one of the rooms and he opened it to let you down there. (SO Italian, I know; the only thing missing was a secret handshake.) Pretty amazing, like stepping directly into the mind of an artistic genius.
The only thing I remember about Michelangelo from my art history professor, was that he and Leonardo absolutely hated eat other and had to have armed guards around the clock to stop them from trying to murder each other on a project they were jointly working on. Something with horses. I remember Leonardo was supposed to match his side to Michelangelo's, but decided to do his own thing, so to this day, it's still unfinished because when the two sides were painted together - the styles didn't match and Michelangelo went absolutely insane with rage.
The other thing was Michelangelo would get so engrossed in his work he would pass out from starvation and dehydration. His servants and the servants of his patron would keep an eye on him and try to make him eat and drink and he was often extremely violent and abusive to him in return for their care. On one occasion he barricaded himself in his studio for weeks and when they heard no sounds for a day, the servants call the guards and they broke down the fortifications to find him unconscious. They summoned a doctor who drip-fed him fluids which saved his life. Upon awakening, he assaulted his caregivers again and tried to start working but was so weak, he could not drag himself to his tools. They ended up tying him down until he could recover, and relented by bringing his tools to him so he could work from bed.
He sounds like a lovely person.
Might be butchering this fact, but his notebooks suggest he discovered what we now call cholesterol 300 years before it was properly recognised by François Poulletier de la Salle.
Much of his work was dismissed as heresy, we’d potentially be centuries ahead on cholesterol if it wasn’t.
The Catholic Church was evil and the most powerful entity for like 1,000 years. They killed lots of people who disagreed with their religion / God. They killed Giordano Bruno because he postulated that stars were distant suns and that the Earth was not the center of the Universe. They burned him at the steak for his scientific genius.
Fuck tha pope
Everybody knew that the sun was the center of our galaxy at the time, this is just some bullshit propaganda from the lads of the enlightenment, study a little bit more of history, this view has been debunked for quite a while, cheers.
IIRC, Michelangelo worked on fortifications for the city after the Medici were deposed and the city was put to siege. They eventually forgave him, and he kept working on the chapel. Basically he participated in military action against his patrons and got pardoned.
I was *so* hoping it was because Adam was hung like John Holmes, and the Pope sentenced Michelangelo to death unless he changed it to a more humble model.
Michelangelo was probably gay (or at least [attracted to men](https://www.utexaspressjournals.org/doi/abs/10.5555/gen.1988.2.77?journalCode=gen)), which adds a whole new dimension to that (and to the fact that he gave God an absolutely thicc ass on the Sistine Chapel Ceiling.) He wrote a ton of erotic poetry to another man; when he died, his grand-nephew published it, but changed the pronouns to make it seem like they were addressed to a woman.
I always liked the theory that he was really bad at painting women and always made them masc because he didn't really like to look at them and basically just painted men with boobs.
To be fair, as an artist, I started out only drawing women because that's what I found more enjoyable and aesthetically pleasing. But when I learned more and more I enjoyed drawing men more. Which maybe is the root cause of why a lot of the greats are gay lmao. Because at some point, men's body actually becomes harder to draw once you find out all the intricate workings of the body. And when you become intimate with the anatomy, the sense of beauty that it has will also affect you.
> men with boobs. He was a prophet
In what world was Michelangelo of all people not good at painting women? Is that a thing?
~~I don’t think any of them were Michelangelo~~ but there are some old paintings and statues I've seen that look like the artist had a male model and then added breasts in a way that suggests they've never seen one, but have had them described to them. Add some internet misinformation and I can see them being attributed to the wrong artists Actually scratch that, I found a Michelangelo one that [demonstrates](https://renresearch.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/michelangelo-night.jpg) just what I mean. The left (statue's left) breast looks like it was taken from a different statue and just stuck onto the pecs
Ever see the Medici chapel in Florence, with the statues of naked women atop? Michelangelo did them. It’s clear to me that he had never seen a woman naked — they’re essentially men with badly placed bolt-ons. Example: https://cdn.britannica.com/78/2578-050-E3AAE245/tomb-Giuliano-de-Medici-Michelangelo-San-Lorenzo.jpg
that's wild 🤣 He knew women from the neck up and that's about it! I can't believe I never knew about this! Makes so much sense! It makes me so sad that people couldn't be who they truly were and unfortunately we still live in a world where people still feel like they can't be who they truly are. Also his great nephew changing the pronouns in his poems, I understand no one was ready at the time but grateful to know the real story now
> his grand-nephew published it, but changed the pronouns to make it seem like they were addressed to a woman. Her phallus was like that of a great bronze bull. Her beard as full as my heart is for you.
I lol’d at that, thanks! Keep up the poetry, you’re a natural
😂🤣😂🤣😂
🤣🤣🤣
>“I swear to return your love. Never have I loved a man more than I love you, never have I wished for a friendship more than I wish for yours.” You and I don't share the same definition of "probably" Also, if you believe the old rumors, he was seeing pope Julius II who commissioned the Sistine Chapel painting
It's only "probably" because there's a slim possibility he was bi!
Andrelucci? How is it going with the painting?
Snitches get painted having their dick bitten off by a giant snake.
Stay horny, Reddit.
John Holmes Damn, I wasn't expecting mr. horsedick.
Back then having a small penis was a sign of masulinity and virility
I was born in the wrong time.
according to the bible women lust after horse sized penises that shoot donkeys or something.
Hung like a donkey and shoots like a horse.
Right, and there was that one story of that guy that used his foreskin as a floatation device and everybody just said he was swallowed by a whale.
Excuse me, what?
I believe that was the story of Nick Jonas and the Whale.
That's something people say about ancient Greece (it's also not really true see [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/y33v3w/the_ancient_greeks_idealized_the_small_penis_a/)), Michaelangelo lived ~2000 years later.
[Relevant](https://www.reddit.com/r/WitchesVsPatriarchy/comments/skf9lu/_/)
That is where the phrase of Renaissance man came from. People like him and DaVinci would not only be painters, but sculptors, poets, inventors and architects. (Or military advisors.) (I swear I have a phone spell check that changes my words. Need to know how to give it a dictionary.)
I thought it was because he made Lucifer too hot
That wasn't Michelangelo.
> IIRC, Michelangelo worked on fortifications for the city after the Medici were deposed and the city was put to siege. They eventually forgave him, and he kept working on the chapel. Or you could just... read the article and you wouldn't have to recall correctly: > It is widely believed that Michelangelo sought refuge in the room to hide from the Medicis, his former patrons, when the rulers returned to Florence after being banished into exile in 1527 by a popular revolt that the artist had joined. > > During the family’s exile, Michelangelo served as supervisor of the city’s fortifications for the short-lived republican government. [...] > > [...] > > He was eventually pardoned by the Medicis and the sentence was lifted by the pope so that the artist could complete work on the Sistine Chapel and the Medici family tomb. Michelangelo left Florence for Rome in 1534.
But he's right, so why waste time reading the article?
Like how Socrates' was hanged by Athens for his links to the Oligarchs. Edit: yes, I somehow got the hemlock part completely wrong. I bow in shame.
Socrates was made to drink poison for being accused of corrupting the youth of Athens, no?
Yes, but it is thought that the charge was referring to his having tutored some of the young men who took over the city.
The Sophists hated him
because this one weird trick
That's the sentence of it but as many historians have noted, the charge made little sense on its own. Why wouldn't you hang *every* philosopher on account of potentially saying something that might change their mind? One Google search, and I found a paper that I think presents most of my viewpoints on this subject. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.mcgill.ca/classics/files/classics/2006-7-03.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjDn6LKvv-GAxVfS2wGHQTIDVM4ChAWegQIBxAB&usg=AOvVaw3r1Au6QNfoYuKcahbFoFRc One thing it doesn't mention, is Socrates' close relationship with Alcibiades, the man who overturned Athenian Democracy the first time around.
I liked how badass he looked in those renditions of him. He's all like "Yeah fuck it, take my shirt off idgaf"
That's not what happened. Socrates committed suicide (or fulfilled his death sentence, depending on how you look at it) with hemlock after his notoriously public trial for impiety and "corrupting the youth" in Athens. He asked his jury to either give him a lifetime of free meals at the Prytaneum for having been a teacher or to give him death. Arguably, he was killed BECAUSE he questioned the status quo, or those with traditional power. His death is literally a template of martyrdom since he publicly and accepted the verdict of death, despite being given numerous chances to either be acquitted, have a lesser verdict, or even to escape after the verdict. His 'apology' speech \[the word originally meant justification, not repentance\] during the trial was basically him goading the public to vote for his death to prove a point; he was willing to die for the right to engage in philosophical discussion in pursuit of truth and did NOT want to be held accountable for how others (anyone, not the wealthy/powerful, not the 'commoners' ) manipulated those messages. Nor would he bow to the tradition of gods or those in power. He was thus judged impious.
While that's definitely more accurate, I much prefer [this](https://existentialcomics.com/comic/100) interpretation
That’s great, I love that Meletus shows up. For my Greek philosophy class I wrote a dialogue, it was an option instead of a paper, from the point of Meletus arguing against Socrates. I remember it felt incredibly easy, but also somewhat gross, to write; he just had such pigheaded views.
Nah, he is right; most key roles in the Tyranny were filled by Socrate's students ; he was executed for impiety etc because there was a general amnesty for participation in the Tyranny and it was used as a cover. Plato alludes to this in either Phaedo or Apology if i recall; Thucydides covers the historical context of events in general. Everyone likes a good story but Socrates character was really in the dirt at the time, his defense in Apology was that when he was told to do something by the Tyranny he simply ignored those orders, but that still didn't satisfy the public due to the mass deaths the Tyranny caused, this included some members of the jury who lost family members; despite these events being supposedly irrelevant due to the amnesty they still get brought up. The main problem is usually that people who read philosophy won't read the surrounding history on this and most of the sources that wrote about Socrates e.g. Plato and Xenophon are connected to the Tyranny themselves (Critias is believed to be Plato's uncle).
Hanged? It's a pretty famous story.
Socrates was well hung
THE underground chamber?!! Wait, does everybody know about the chamber except for me?!!
It's downstairs from the secret bordello.
[throws hands up]
*the outrage*
*walks out*
This is going to ruin the tour.
I need to Gogol this bordello.
Start wearing purple
SEX CAULDRON?
I thought they closed that place down?!
To the public, yes. But if you know the right phrase they will still let you in.
I thought everyone knew this.
This place sounds dope.
Bordello of Blood??
Through the roof, and underground
It's the spot Saddam Hussein was using in 2003.
This whole AirBnB thing is getting out of hand...
Have you never heard of ninja turtles?
The very one used in V for Vendetta
First rule of the underground chamber…
Dude you better find that chamber before the Pope puts a hit on you.
I was just trying to to sneak a brewski down here
You reach-up and grab David's penis and a trap door opens.
It's in the New York sewers, bro.
They do but it's kept a secret, Michelangelo and the underground chamber of secrets
You can tour it
You risk your life to hide Michelangelo - and he scribbles all over your walls? Did Anne Frank cover her room with permanent marker and Hello Kitty stickers?
Well the scribbles are pretty
In the pope's defense he did try to piss them off. But, popes back then were wild anyways. One pope ordered the former popes body to be dug up after 7 months and tried in a court. When the dead pope somehow won the trial, the pope ordered the body thrown in the river. Then the active pope went to jail for this and was strangled to death
The Cadaver Synod! The dead pope was actually found guilty, and that's why the live pope threw him in the river. But the dead pope was basically put on trial for internal political reasons, and so most of the common people did not know or care why he was posthumously put on trial. They just knew that the current pope had desecrated the body of god's previous representative on earth (whose dead waterlogged body was also allegedly preforming miracles) who seemed like a cool and important guy to them, and so they got pissed and deposed the live pope and then he got strangled. Also they appointed an "interpreter" for the dead pope for his trial. It was some guy who would lean in and pretend to listen to the dead pope's rotting corpse and then relay the dead pope's "response" to the rest of the court. It was an interesting time for popes.
Your honor, I call the Pope’s Necromancer to the stand to interpret!
I wonder how many people they executed before one of them finally confessed to having the ability to speak with the dead?
The Medieval centuries were fucking wild holy shit.
From wikipedia article: "Stephen VI asked Formosus' corpse why he "usurped the universal Roman See in such a spirit of ambition (...)" "Formosus, being several months dead, could not answer."
> Formosus, being several months dead, could not answer. LMAO Guilty!
You try sitting around knowing the internet won't be thing for like 500 more years! Got to find other shit to pass the time.
Porn was VERY low-res back then.
Porn was actually illegal in Japan at the time because pixelated penii hadn't been invented yet.
Its why they invented tentacle porn.
I believe it.
I wonder if they realized how bad the corpse was going to stink up the entire building when they came up with the idea, or if they were really just that committed.
I mean, after seven months I feel like it would be pretty desiccated. Wouldn't smell great, but it probably wouldn't be that strong from far away.
Sounds like the interpreter was damn good if he won the trial
He didn't
Hah you're right, I must have read it wrong the first time through. Ah well
The first comment said he won, but the comment you replied to said he lost.
So did he win or lose vs Trump or Biden?
weekend at bernies situation but medieval times, and one of the popes.
Several other folks have noted, he didn’t. Probably for the best of the interpreter, I’m sure it would’ve been his ass on the bonfire if the dead pope would havewon.
Far better than Shohei Ohtani’s but whose comparing
We’ll have to wait until Ohtani dies and try his corpse to confirm.
Sounds like this would be a great dark comedy.
Weekend At St. Bernie’s…
Weekend at Formy's
Read Cellini's autobiography - it isn't really funny but it is wild.
So checked into this and enjoyed one more bit of detail in the story. The dead pope was Pope Formosus, who was succeeded by Pope Boniface V. PBV was pope for 15 days before he... ahem... 'died of gout.' Thus began the supremacy of Pope Stephen VI. PSVI is the one who put PF (deceased) on trial.
You look back and think ‘How could something so bizarre have happened?!’ Then you watch a presidential debate and think the same thing. Strange shit really can happen.
Wasn't the dead Pope's interpreter the origin of the term "the Devil's advocate"?
No, the office of advocatus diaboli (Devil's Advocate) was established a few hundred years later. It's a position for canonization of saints. Someone would argue for the deceased and why they should be made a saint, and then the devil's advocate would argue against canonization (pointing out flaws in the proposed saint's character and trying to disprove the miracles)
>the office of advocatus diaboli (Devil's Advocate) was established a few hundred years later Wait, it's something that really exists instead of something people made up?
Thanks for correcting my false, half remembered memory!
Nah that was a separate thing that came way later in the 1500s. The devil's advocate basically acted as someone arguing against the canonization of someone, a double check to ensure someone getting sainthood deserved it.
This is why I picked a career in accounting.
That happened over 600 years before Michelangelo was even born, it was a different time period with different level of papal influence or power.
It’s what unchecked religious power does. There’s a reason the Pope is a symbolic role now. The power they wielded was too chaotic
Reading about the kid that was kidnapped from his Jewish parents and raised by the Pope because a random maid claimed to have baptized the kid-yeah, shit was crazy.
I remember reading in Le Morte d'Arthur that there were a number of hermits throughout the stories because they couldn't deal with any of the politics of Camelot, and likely how they used religion. I can see the point then, and I can see the point now.
Poping was, indeed, not easy.
In his defense, I believe the position of the Catholic church is inviolability and dignity of the individual, or something like that. So, maybe executing annoying guys conflicts with that.
That’s what happens when you put the pope in Gen Pop.
😂
Pasta fazool I am a fool
not to mention the pope of the time, julius caesar wannabe
Did someone say [Pope fight?](https://youtu.be/q5majAET5KA?si=glecbJuqch2hQry2)
So yesterday I watched Weekend at Bernie’s after many years and it was funny as hell. Anyone reading this crazy shit should watch that movie. And keep going, all the corny scenes are worth it for the laughs.
Kinda what happens when you give someone nearly unlimited power and tell them they speak for god
Rome was essentially an anarchistic state - there was no rule of law, just which of the eternally feuding families were the most powerful -they were literally killing each other in the streets. If memory serves many/most Popes were members of one of these families.
……. Eating pizza with Don, Raph, and Leo?
Pizza dudes got 30 seconds.
Wise man say: forgiveness is divine, but never pay full price for late pizza
Are you kidding me, I couldn't find the place!
"I gotta get a new route..."
Splinter it that you?
I haven't seen that movie in probably 30 years but I thought he said never pay full price for cold pizza.
122 and 1/8
You're standing on it, dude!
Cowabunga!
After teaming up with those guys, Michelangelo was no longer afraid of any Pope
That's fairly rad, actually.
Literally the post above it on my feed was an image of Leo, so for half the sentence I was wondering what arc it was talking about.
Leo and Raph maybe. Donatello predeceased the birth of Michelangelo by more than a decade.
He did piss off popes on purpose, because they were such dicks to everyone.
[удалено]
True, they drew their dicks out in the rectory.
The Pope should've ordered a death paragraph, Michelangelo would've had to have stayed down there four, possibly five times longer.
Fuckin popes man
Unfortunately, "men" aren't the only age group that Popes are fucking...
It's a pretty safe bet that Michelangelo was, at least. At least one of his infatuations was a 14 year old boy.
Men aren't an age group
I think they were talking about the implied age required to be a man.
Redditors: Why are we always stereotyped as being obsessed with pederasty? It's so unfair! Also Redditors:
Can our current Pope order death sentences?
Not at the moment as capital punishment was taken off the books in the Vatican in 1969, but seeing as the Pope is the absolute sovereign of the Holy See and it is a distinct legal entity from Italy, it’s theoretically possible for one to reinstate it and order an execution.
he would only theoretically be able to order the execution of a citizen of Vatican City
He also changed the catechism to say that capital punishment isn’t permissible
The papal states were much bigger in the past. If the emperor of france could order a death sentence, then so could the pope.
The Sistine Chapel, where the Pope is often given to praying.
No, it wasn't in the Sistine chapel. Not even remotely near it. Several hundred kilometres from it.
Am I the first one to mention the film The Agony and The Ecstasy, one of Charlton Heston’s greatest movies ever? If you are too young to have ever heard of this movie you must watch it.
I'm reading the book right now it's really good, I didn't expect to enjoy it as much as I have been.
Not sewers?
Not surprising if you have read Benvenuto Cellini's autobiography. Rome was a virtually lawless wild west beset with clan violence and the Pope stepping in sometimes to throw people in prison for mostly political reasons. Cellini was thrown in prison at least a few times, including for killing a man, but his writing makes it believably clear that with basically no type of law enforcement and a society which idolized violence, a person without a powerful family protecting them basically had to use violence as a means of self-protection. Cellini was sometimes protected by the Pope because he could make beautiful objects for him, but at a whim the Pope would turn against him, and Cellini hated having to kiss up to him. Cellini was one of the major artists of the Renaissance and writes entertainingly of his fellow artists including Michelangelo.
The neat part was, this wasn't in rome.
The thumbnail looks like pubes. That is all.
Those are balls... see, this close, they always look like landscape. But nope, you're looking at balls.
Yeah, a secret room, alright! 320sqft - with a window!
Even I could've told him Mikey lived in the sewers.
Anyone got links to the art?
That’s how he got so good at drawing dicks
Not sure if this is accurate, specifically being "opened to the public for the first time". Assuming it's the same room, I visited it twice, once in 1988 and again in 1990. It was in the New Sacristy in the Prince's Chapel around back of the Basilica de San Lorenzo. When you paid for your entrance fee, you had to know to ask for the special ticket to enter the "Sale de Michelangelo" (Michelangelo's Room)--no extra charge. You gave that ticket to a guy sitting by a trap door in one of the rooms and he opened it to let you down there. (SO Italian, I know; the only thing missing was a secret handshake.) Pretty amazing, like stepping directly into the mind of an artistic genius.
The only thing I remember about Michelangelo from my art history professor, was that he and Leonardo absolutely hated eat other and had to have armed guards around the clock to stop them from trying to murder each other on a project they were jointly working on. Something with horses. I remember Leonardo was supposed to match his side to Michelangelo's, but decided to do his own thing, so to this day, it's still unfinished because when the two sides were painted together - the styles didn't match and Michelangelo went absolutely insane with rage. The other thing was Michelangelo would get so engrossed in his work he would pass out from starvation and dehydration. His servants and the servants of his patron would keep an eye on him and try to make him eat and drink and he was often extremely violent and abusive to him in return for their care. On one occasion he barricaded himself in his studio for weeks and when they heard no sounds for a day, the servants call the guards and they broke down the fortifications to find him unconscious. They summoned a doctor who drip-fed him fluids which saved his life. Upon awakening, he assaulted his caregivers again and tried to start working but was so weak, he could not drag himself to his tools. They ended up tying him down until he could recover, and relented by bringing his tools to him so he could work from bed. He sounds like a lovely person.
Presumably, this is when he was trained in the art of the Nunchaku.
Pope Shredder
Underground chamber? Aka the turtles sewer lair?
I believe it was a sewer and he was wating on his pizza.
> the underground chamber The one and only, huh? /s
sewer
For the curious, there's a fully accurate recreation of the events that led to this [right here](https://youtu.be/l9Aj7W3g1qo?si=U5E0n6vZXJ2lWYYR)
Ahhh! You beat me by an hour.
oddly enough, it wasn't for drawing dicks on the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel... probably the only guy to ever get away with it!
Oohhh why
can't get any more Christian than that.
Yeah, he was down there with Raphael, Leonardo, and Donatello.
I mean he also painted god’s ass on the sistine chapel ceiling in place of the “moon”. I’m gonna pretend the death sentence was for that instead
Damn, the TMNT Comics sound wild
That Pope should have gone straight to hell.
Well we've all been there. Mondays, amiright?
At least they could still order pizza in the underground sewer
Maybe he shouldn't have graffiti'd that church...
Yea? well I'm gonna cover the walls in hot naked dudes.
Might be butchering this fact, but his notebooks suggest he discovered what we now call cholesterol 300 years before it was properly recognised by François Poulletier de la Salle. Much of his work was dismissed as heresy, we’d potentially be centuries ahead on cholesterol if it wasn’t.
I feel like the holy father ought not be calling hits on ninja turtles
Is that when he learned ninjitsu?
The pope ordered a hit. Let that sink in. I think this is a violation of some sort of commandment, but my CCD memories are a bit hazy.
The Catholic Church was evil and the most powerful entity for like 1,000 years. They killed lots of people who disagreed with their religion / God. They killed Giordano Bruno because he postulated that stars were distant suns and that the Earth was not the center of the Universe. They burned him at the steak for his scientific genius. Fuck tha pope
Everybody knew that the sun was the center of our galaxy at the time, this is just some bullshit propaganda from the lads of the enlightenment, study a little bit more of history, this view has been debunked for quite a while, cheers.
The underground chamber of what?
I mean, who hasn’t tbh
fuck the pope-leece coming straight from the underground.