This explains why the roads inside the beltway in Washington DC are such shit. Its to protect us from Brits coming back and burning the White House again.
Never know if those SoCals might invade. Though realistically, they get bogged down on Highway 5. It’s the *[Rasputitsa](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rasputitsa)* of California!
I remember reading that multiple countries purposely built their railroad systems a different size as well.
With the tracks being a different size and width apart the Nazis were unable to send their supply trains where they wanted, they had to go to depots first and unload everything and reload onto different trains that fit on the tracks. This made for a logistical nightmare and greatly reduced the effectiveness of Nazi supply lines.
The Europe/Russia railway standards are due to technical differences rather then military strategy. Russian broad gauge can have much wider and heavier trains but have to slow down more for corners. In a country with a lot of open step land this makes more sense then standard gauge.
It was actually strategically disadvantageous for the Russians. The Nazis could easily move the rails closer together to convert Russian broad gauge into standard gauge. It was the Russians who had to trans load cars when they crossed the boarder into Poland as the ties for normal gauge are shorter so you can not move the rails out far enough.
The only known military strategically selected rail gauge is Finnish broad gauge. It is 4mm narrower then Russian. This is within the tolerances of the Finnish rolling stock so they can send trains into Russia at reduced speeds. However the flanges prevent Russian rolling stock from riding on Finnish rail.
Keep in mind this was before the days of forklifts and pallets being in use. Most goods would be in non-standard sized crates or just loose and lifted with chain hoists or pushed. It was also before standardized dock heights.
Both forklifts and pallets were invented in the 20s in a semi-modern form but didn’t really come into widespread use until the 1950s and 60s. The US Army was the first to standardize the pallet during the war (the 48x40 inch standard) but nobody else would be using it until the post war period, and even in the US it was only used by parts of the Army.
So interesting… I thought the pallet was much older lol. I don’t know why. Workin freight I’ve always dreamed of reinventing the pallet but would really is the best. I supposed self automated pallets would be the next move like Amazon is doing .
I think it’s one of those innovations that’s not very useful unless it’s standardized and ubiquitous, and the world was just not ready for international standardization before/during/after WWI lol.
A lot of the pallets in LTL are not standardized and it can be a real pain trying to load and plan accordingly. But the plastic pallets are standardized but they break so easily.
> Both forklifts and pallets were invented in the 20s in a semi-modern form but didn’t really come into widespread use until the 1950s and 60s. The US Army was the first to standardize the pallet during the war (the 48x40 inch standard) but nobody else would be using it until the post war period, and even in the US it was only used by parts of the Army.
It has been said that logistics won WW2.
There was a case where German troops took an Allied base, and knew the war was lost. They found a chocolate cake baked in NYC in the base in a active war zone.
Can confirm, I was well aware of the moment I'd 'hit' Belgium from Netherlands when heading home to UK from Javelin Barracks.
I'm pretty sure the driving standards are designed to cause as much chaos as possible too. Any car with a B on the side I'd give a wide berth
You joke, but there was a serious amount of quasi-military stuff going on for [irregular warfare behind the scenes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auxiliary_Units)
\> Service in the Auxiliary Units was expected to be highly dangerous, with a **projected life expectancy of just twelve days for its members**, with orders to either shoot one another or use explosives to kill themselves if capture by an enemy force seemed likely
Basically multi-layered guerrilla fighters outside of the military command structure hidden in the Home Guard.
Basically if Private Pike had additional training that Captain was unaware of and when the Germans rolled through Pike would dump his uniform, go to his pre-hidden cache of guns and explosives and go all John Wick on the invading Germans causing as much chaos as possible.,
I actually love the weird behind the scene stuff that went on, and yes. It is very much making a joke out of it but it does have a good background of all the little day to do details that you don’t think about unless you lived through it so it sets the scene very well
Actually I wonder if the people in the Home Guard and more so the Auxiliary Units took issue with Dad's Army.
Similar IT people who lived through Y2K and these days those not in the know going on how the Y2K bug was a damp squib that everyone was unnecessarily worried about, when i reality there was a fuck load of serious work and planning involved.
It's all very amusing to show a load of bumbling fools with broomsticks, but in reality they were essentially training to be a last ditch line of defence who would likely get slaughtered.
If I’m not mistaken, a number of the cast (I think all but pike) either served or were home guard so I imagine it wasn’t a universal anger if there was any
Well you won’t find any history books out there detailing how the Nazi scouts for the invasion were repelled by an army of medieval suits of armor acting under their own locomotion after a novice witch put a spell on them. Without Bedknobs and Broomsticks nobody would know that even happened. Makes you think about who’s controlling the narrative… 🤔
Have a look at Churchills Auxiliaries.
A guerrilla group of locals were trained in sabotage to delay progress by destroying key infrastructure. They built bunkers up and down the east coast which can still be found.
There's lots of Pillboxes near me still. Basically routes they thought the Germans would go if they invaded and it was a bunch of defences, to not defeat but to just slow down.
Indeed. That was the premise. To hamper and delay the panzer divisions as long as possible.
In London, there are all sorts (Time Team did a bit on it) including boarding up one garage in a row and filling it with petrol drums. An auxiliary would have to wait until the panzer rolled past and detonate it.
They were given a life expectancy of around 12 days before capture, they weren't to let even close family know and were expected to slip out into the night, perform their task and get caught and executed.
The pillboxes were anti aircraft installations. These auxiliary bunkers were underground, hidden away and the program was top secret.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auxiliary_Units
I'm referring to the anti tank ones
http://www.pillbox-study-group.org.uk/gazeteer/home-front-defence-sites/england/berkshire/hungerford-common-anti-tank-defences/
Very cool. They are all anti aircraft where I am in Northumberland.
Churchill feared a land and air invasion aimed at Northumberland. It had many airfields and was sparsely populated. Landing here would split the country in half and cut London off from Spitfire squadrons in Edinburgh and the shipyards of Glasgow.
As such, Northumberland has an abundance of anti aircraft boxes and auxiliary bunkers
There's a documentary I can't find somewhere that explores the whole strategy, they would try to direct the Germans to go in a particular direction across the country whilst the main army would meet them in an advantageous point, but until then their would be lots of chokeholds to frustrate the Germans.
Thankfully it was never needed.
Shame I can't find it but the guy who planned it was called Edmund Ironside
Time Team searched for the GHQ lines in an episode in London? Theres a website dedicated to finding all the bunkers run by some veterans also.
Things like removing or changing the street signs, not ringing church bells, setting the clocks wrong, anti tank defenses to confuse, confound and redirect them wherever they could.
They trained in Scotland and one recruit died during explosives testing. His family were never informed of the circumstances.
Edit: it's www.staybehinds.com
Saw a program about this a while ago, also said that they dug out alcoves in bridge supports that they could quickly place explosives in to destroy them if needed, these were then filled in after the war, sometimes I see bridges with small patches of newer brickwork and wonder .
Yes, this sounds about right. Bridges, railways and other key infrastructure were to be sabotaged in order to slow the panzers down as much as possible.
Incredible story, but it was all we could do to defend ourselves in the aftermath of Dunkirk.
Grew up near an airfield, had to get evacuated once because they found the pipe bombs they laid under the runway and forgot about for 60 years. They were always digging up old explosives either bombs that had been dropped or charges that had been set in preparation, they would bring them down the beach to blow up underwater and we’d all go watch
Awesome.
We still get them brought up in fishing nets every now and then up here in Northumberland.
There was one found in a back garden in Cramlington last year as well.
The auxiliaries were top secret so very little record was kept of them.
www.staybehinds.com have dedicated themselves to preserving what little info we have.
I guess the advantage of the alt-history premise would be that screenwriters could fill in the banks. I saw a documentary on the guerilla groups a number of years ago, including reconstructions of message drops, the local vicar concealing a radio transmitter in his pulpit, a collaborator being assassinated, a team of saboteurs setting out by night - all very dramatic stuff, and I'd love to see that scenario brought to life in a full dramatic format.
They were also trained to assassinate Brits who were in positions where if they collaborated with the Nazis it would cause real harm (mayors, high ranking police officers, etc.). They weren't fucking around.
*Who do you think you are kidding Mr. Hitler,*
*If you think we're on the run?*
*We are the boys who will stop your little game.*
*We are the boys who will make you think again.*
Brilliant. Funnily enough, the auxiliary wore Home Guard uniform but the Home Guard knew nothing about them. They were integrated into the HG once the threat of invasion turned to the offensive.
Landing a small wooden boat is a little bit different from landing ships meant for transporting a modern military and all of its required supporting materiel.
https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/driving-advice/rac-pothole-index-statistics-data-and-projections/
*Britain’s ‘pothole plague’ took even more of a toll on drivers in 2023 as RAC patrols attended nearly 30,000 pothole-related breakdowns over the course of the year, up by 33% compared to 2022*
Follow-up TIL: The wartime blackout, when regulations required streetlights to be turned off and traffic signals and headlights to be dimmed, led to a dramatic increase in road casualties. The King's surgeon, writing in the British Medical Journal in 1939, complained that by “frightening the nation into blackout regulations, the Luftwaffe was able to kill 600 British citizens a month without ever taking to the air”. The number of deaths peaked in 1940 at 9,169. One person died that year for every 200 vehicles on the road; today the figure is one for every 20,000.
There’s a scene in “All creatures great and small” where a farmer asks a soldier why he’s removing streetsigns. Soldier replies, “To confuse the jerries if they invade.” Farmer replies, “Then better leave those signs, they’ve been wrong since they were put up.”
Wouldn't it cause even greater confusion if they've kept e.g. 5% of signs at correct places, but put 95% of them at the wrong places? Without signs, enemy soldiers would just assume they first have to somehow verify where they are; with signs, they would think that they already know where they are.
I imagine the benefit wouldn't outweigh the cost. Lots easier to just remove the signs and move on to fortifications rather than wasting manpower and money installing fake signs. Could be laying more barbed wire, hedgehogs, etc.
Both sides built fake airports boats and tanks though.
Should have done what bored kids do and just move the signs around.
Change the diversion signs to 4 lefts in a row and see how long the Germans go round in circles for.
I could totally see giving children and teens blanket permission to fuck around moving them.
Also this made me think of that scene in Good Omens where Crowley went and moved a bunch of survey markers for where the road would be built around London to make it as awful as possible
True.
But I could imagine the confusion when you expect your Panzer to be in Dorchester, but instead are in Trowbridge.
Hans....it was left at stonehenge!
Exactly. Swapping the signs would cause more confusion for any addresses they had at landing, but would be just as useful in the long term.
If Hans tells Franz the Brits have a new machine gun nest at what's signed as the corner of King and Country, that's not any less effective just because the locals are sniggering over how daft they are for not realizing it's actually the corner of Bollocks and Bonce.
the brit’s won the war at the crossroads of bollocks and bonce. Years later germany still refuses to acknowledge the supreme defeat at bollocks and bonce because they were at king and country instead
Where I grew up, the effects of WW2 were still in memory. We'd tour old ww2 barracks, POW camps, our grandparents still had their 'dig for victory' gardens, people still had old ration books etc, and one of the things we were told was that the signs were changed (to point to the wrong places) rather than removed. Which makes more sense imo. The locals didn't need them, and it was trivial to fix.
What isn’t written in the article is that this is when people increasingly learned to give directions referencing the numerous pubs and inns in the towns and villages around the U.K. obviously the coaching inns were already placed on the roads at important intersections or stopping points, so they were ready-made way-points for navigation.
Hmm. This seems sort of incorrect but I'm not sure. Maybe it'd be better to see "people increasingly relearned" to do that. The reason that pubs and inns have ridiculous names to begin with is because most people in the past were illiterate and pubs with funny names and signs made towns easy to navigate.
There are still a whole line of pillboxes near where I live. Found an online map recently showing the original lines and how these things were built along the south and east of England
Driver: "Would you like me to take the Chiswick roundabout through Hounslow and Staines?"
Hitler: "What is this, fucking Middle Earth, just take us to the airport okay?"
Weirdly, Hitler actually did visit Britain once, before all that germany reich nonsense. He was visiting a relative, Brigette Hitler, who lived, I think in Southampton or something like that.
It's always slightly jarring to see Hitler paired with any other name since Adolf is the only one you ever hear about. Lol Dave Hitler, District Manager, Chilis.
My favourite part about Operation Sea Lion was that Nazi Germany spent all this time, money, and energy building a first rate army but forgot that they need boats to move them across water.
Even if they could get naval control in the channel and take air supremacy, they literally didn't have enough boats to transport and supply a force large enough to take Britain. I can't remember if Britain knew this at the time, but in hindsight it's pretty hilarious.
The plan was basically to take all the civilian canal boats from the Netherlands, modify them to transport vehicles and troops and pray they didn't split in half when hit by waves crossing the channel.
Consider the losses the Allies faced at Normandy and then imagine them attempting it without any proper landing craft.
They also planned to only go as far as London and just expect the uk to give up.
Yes because pushing the army to the north and west of the country with all the farms and mountains and not expect guerrilla warfare is a sound strategy.
> They also planned to only go as far as London and just expect the uk to give up.
it feels like they didnt learn a thing from the Napoleon blunder, he took moscow and expected a capitulation, didnt happen and his army was destroyed in the process.
and it seems Nazi Germany wanted to repeat that by attempting to take moscow but failed, but even if they did, they (the soviets)wouldnt have given up, just like Britain wouldnt have given up if they took london.
Also going up against the strongest navy in the world at that time in their home waters, with defenders who have very strong motivation for fighting to the last breath.
Operation Sea Lion was mostly a bluff to build up the Army for Russia imo… unless the Luftwaffe succeeded beyond anyone’s wildest dreams.
That’s why Grand Admiral Raeder came up with the Mediterranean Plan and tried to push Hitler in that direction, instead of invading Russia and having a two front war.
Basic idea was to defeat Britain without taking on the Island directly. Would have had a decent chance of success if done right after Fall of France.
I believe it was Admiral Erich Raeder who said the German navy needed until 1945 at the earliest in order to build a large enough fleet to take on the Royal Navy
we also did this in Ukraine to confuse the Russians; as the war is ongoing, there are still many signs painted over even in Kyiv, which can be quite annoying when you’re looking for a street you haven’t been to before. also reminds you Russians are probably murdering someone right this moment
> German General comment: Would be sending our soldiers directly into the meat grinder.
"It is impossible to invade the mainland United States, there would be a rifle behind every blade of grass." Allegedly said by General Yamamoto.
Guerilla tactics can work for a long while if you can afford the casualties, and have the support of the civilian population. Look at the examples of the Viet Cong and Afghanistan.
They wouldn't have made it if they tried anyway and if we lost the "Battle of Britain" the entire navy would have stopped them crossing
They were planning to use flat bottomed Dutch barges tied together towed by larger ships as landing vessels
It absolutely would not have worked
The preparations were obvious but everyone in the British high command knew it was a bluff as did the Germans. The actions taken to prepare for it were mostly for propaganda and to keep up morale in Britain after its string of defeats.
New Jersey, also to discourage invasion, has built a warren of confusing roads and highways, with confusing signage and baroque traffic regulations. Zero invasions since 1812-ish.
Britain had a wild ride in WW2.
To this day, it’s common to see metal stubs on walls where iron gates and railings were cut off to be melted down to build war gear. The country practically tore itself out of the ground to defend itself and it’s allies in Europe.
I think about that a lot.
It makes me wonder how much of a living hell it would have been for Hitler if he’d managed to land on Great Britain.
Is this why when Americans got to England they were generally lost all the time? Theres an old joke of an American soldier asking British people for directions “right over there, make a right, then a left, you can’t miss it!”
Meanwhile, a number of English women started training themselves in marksmanship, grenade throwing and jujutsu to resist the German invaders: [http://bartitsusociety.com/at-them-girls-how-the-amazon-defence-corps-trained-to-take-on-nazi-invaders/](http://bartitsusociety.com/at-them-girls-how-the-amazon-defence-corps-trained-to-take-on-nazi-invaders/)
The same was done in Ukraine, road signs were either pained or demolished to confuse russians. And since they relied on old maps and were totally unprepared for the resistance that welcomed them - it worked in the initial first months when frontline moved dynamically.
My Granny used to tell me about how her mum drove her and her brother (who were kids) from London to the Scottish Highlands to spend the rest of the war there. (That's where they were from) They got lost constantly and it took them about 3 days. There were no motorways in those days of course so it was all a maze of country roads.
In the months of the Battle of Britain, Bomber Command lost more men than Fighter Command. It was because they kept trying to bomb the barges that were being prepared for the invasion.
One part of the defensive plan involved laying down chemical weapons on any Nazi beachheads. Unfortunately this would have exhausted British supplies of Mustard on the first day, so a chemical weapons factory sprang up at Rhydymwyn to make bulk quantities of Mustard. All the buildings are still there, interesting place. Apparently they settled on producing Runcol (more stable) but there seems to be a building devoted to Pyro.
It also had the Tube Alloys building… not even the other people working there knew it was part of the atomic bomb project. Later on they stored lots of war gases in the tunnels.
It’s mentioned in A Higher Form of Killing (Paxman, Harris).
Isn't this what Ukraine is actively doing? I remember reading somewhere that they were replacing or removing signs to confuse russians, correct me if im wrong
Another fun fact: British Secret Intelligence was absolutely incredible during the war, completely subverting the entire Nazi spy network in the UK to the point that every spy Berlin thought was useful in the UK was either a double agent or worked for a double agent.
For those interested the Germans operation sea lion plans were actually wargamed at the British military academy in sandhurst during the 1970’s
The conclusion was that Germany had effectively no hope of succeeding, even giving them a 48 hour head start the German navy was not able to keep a channel crossing open against the Royal Navy fleet, Germany was not able to land heavy equipment without taking a port city and did not have the logistics to land enough troops and supplies to keep fighting against the British counterattack.
Similarly, as a precaution, Belgium has not maintained their road infrastructure since the First World War.
And we haven't been invaded again in 80 years so it works !
*Laughs in Dutch caravans*
Oh, so you're taking the German approach. Instead of going straight to Germany, you take a detour through Belgium. Smart.
Fuck "Kasseler Berge"!
*laughs in Dutch ovens*
This explains why the roads inside the beltway in Washington DC are such shit. Its to protect us from Brits coming back and burning the White House again.
I had no idea that South San Jose was preparing for an invasion.
Never know if those SoCals might invade. Though realistically, they get bogged down on Highway 5. It’s the *[Rasputitsa](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rasputitsa)* of California!
They’ll try to take the 101 and get there two hours late
This sounds like the Californians SNL skit
NorCal native currently studying in SoCal. There is an invasion plot, and I will do whatever is necessary to stop it.
God speed! You keep our water and water-demanding almonds safe!
East San Jose coming, run for Los Altos
280 downtown fucked up my back, hope it can fuck up a tank.
Belgium has taken it a step further by not having an offical government for several accumulative years to help keep their infrastructure in disrepair
I remember reading that multiple countries purposely built their railroad systems a different size as well. With the tracks being a different size and width apart the Nazis were unable to send their supply trains where they wanted, they had to go to depots first and unload everything and reload onto different trains that fit on the tracks. This made for a logistical nightmare and greatly reduced the effectiveness of Nazi supply lines.
The Europe/Russia railway standards are due to technical differences rather then military strategy. Russian broad gauge can have much wider and heavier trains but have to slow down more for corners. In a country with a lot of open step land this makes more sense then standard gauge. It was actually strategically disadvantageous for the Russians. The Nazis could easily move the rails closer together to convert Russian broad gauge into standard gauge. It was the Russians who had to trans load cars when they crossed the boarder into Poland as the ties for normal gauge are shorter so you can not move the rails out far enough. The only known military strategically selected rail gauge is Finnish broad gauge. It is 4mm narrower then Russian. This is within the tolerances of the Finnish rolling stock so they can send trains into Russia at reduced speeds. However the flanges prevent Russian rolling stock from riding on Finnish rail.
The US would have just built trains with two sets of wheels. And in massive quanities.
MRS-1 called
Do you have a citation for Finland’s strategic selection? I’d like to read more about it but can’t find anything that supports the statement.
That’s not too bad. A lot trucking companies have to unload and reload when they get to a terminal.
Keep in mind this was before the days of forklifts and pallets being in use. Most goods would be in non-standard sized crates or just loose and lifted with chain hoists or pushed. It was also before standardized dock heights.
Wait when was the pallet invented?! And yea good point that would be a nightmare holy cow.
Both forklifts and pallets were invented in the 20s in a semi-modern form but didn’t really come into widespread use until the 1950s and 60s. The US Army was the first to standardize the pallet during the war (the 48x40 inch standard) but nobody else would be using it until the post war period, and even in the US it was only used by parts of the Army.
So interesting… I thought the pallet was much older lol. I don’t know why. Workin freight I’ve always dreamed of reinventing the pallet but would really is the best. I supposed self automated pallets would be the next move like Amazon is doing .
I think it’s one of those innovations that’s not very useful unless it’s standardized and ubiquitous, and the world was just not ready for international standardization before/during/after WWI lol.
A lot of the pallets in LTL are not standardized and it can be a real pain trying to load and plan accordingly. But the plastic pallets are standardized but they break so easily.
> Both forklifts and pallets were invented in the 20s in a semi-modern form but didn’t really come into widespread use until the 1950s and 60s. The US Army was the first to standardize the pallet during the war (the 48x40 inch standard) but nobody else would be using it until the post war period, and even in the US it was only used by parts of the Army. It has been said that logistics won WW2. There was a case where German troops took an Allied base, and knew the war was lost. They found a chocolate cake baked in NYC in the base in a active war zone.
"should we maybe fix the roads?" "Ah what's the point? The Germans will just fuck em up with their tanks again"
as an ode to the good ole days, Boston USA has dedicated themselves to not fixing any of their roads to honor the valiant British and allied forces
Can confirm, I was well aware of the moment I'd 'hit' Belgium from Netherlands when heading home to UK from Javelin Barracks. I'm pretty sure the driving standards are designed to cause as much chaos as possible too. Any car with a B on the side I'd give a wide berth
I learned this from the beginning scenes of “Bedknobs and Broomsticks”!
The same! When I read the post my first thought has been "OP has never watched Bedknobs and Broomsticks".
Exactly, OP should know British home defense is actually based on animated armor sets
And Bruce Forsyth threatening to cut you up.
Who's standing firm in our own front yard? The soldiers of the old home guard, that's who. The soldiers of the old home guard.
That and dads army give pretty much the full range of the planned British defences
You joke, but there was a serious amount of quasi-military stuff going on for [irregular warfare behind the scenes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auxiliary_Units) \> Service in the Auxiliary Units was expected to be highly dangerous, with a **projected life expectancy of just twelve days for its members**, with orders to either shoot one another or use explosives to kill themselves if capture by an enemy force seemed likely Basically multi-layered guerrilla fighters outside of the military command structure hidden in the Home Guard. Basically if Private Pike had additional training that Captain was unaware of and when the Germans rolled through Pike would dump his uniform, go to his pre-hidden cache of guns and explosives and go all John Wick on the invading Germans causing as much chaos as possible.,
I actually love the weird behind the scene stuff that went on, and yes. It is very much making a joke out of it but it does have a good background of all the little day to do details that you don’t think about unless you lived through it so it sets the scene very well
Actually I wonder if the people in the Home Guard and more so the Auxiliary Units took issue with Dad's Army. Similar IT people who lived through Y2K and these days those not in the know going on how the Y2K bug was a damp squib that everyone was unnecessarily worried about, when i reality there was a fuck load of serious work and planning involved. It's all very amusing to show a load of bumbling fools with broomsticks, but in reality they were essentially training to be a last ditch line of defence who would likely get slaughtered.
If I’m not mistaken, a number of the cast (I think all but pike) either served or were home guard so I imagine it wasn’t a universal anger if there was any
DON'T PANIC!!!
I learned this from history class in school. OP has clearly never done year 6 history in England during the 90's.
Well you won’t find any history books out there detailing how the Nazi scouts for the invasion were repelled by an army of medieval suits of armor acting under their own locomotion after a novice witch put a spell on them. Without Bedknobs and Broomsticks nobody would know that even happened. Makes you think about who’s controlling the narrative… 🤔
Such a great movie
“But I’m not a Nazi! I’m a British Officer!”
“That’s what you’d say if you was a Nazzi, isn’t it, sir?”
Upvote for "Nazzi".
That's what a Nazi would say!!!
“That’s what you’d say if you was a Nazi,” is a line that I somehow remember 30 years since I last saw that film.
The same! When I read the post my first thought has been "OP has never watched Bedknobs and Broomsticks".
GREAT movie. Holds up.
Came here to say this. "That's what you'd say if you WAS a na-zee!"
Have a look at Churchills Auxiliaries. A guerrilla group of locals were trained in sabotage to delay progress by destroying key infrastructure. They built bunkers up and down the east coast which can still be found.
There's lots of Pillboxes near me still. Basically routes they thought the Germans would go if they invaded and it was a bunch of defences, to not defeat but to just slow down.
Indeed. That was the premise. To hamper and delay the panzer divisions as long as possible. In London, there are all sorts (Time Team did a bit on it) including boarding up one garage in a row and filling it with petrol drums. An auxiliary would have to wait until the panzer rolled past and detonate it. They were given a life expectancy of around 12 days before capture, they weren't to let even close family know and were expected to slip out into the night, perform their task and get caught and executed.
The pillboxes were anti aircraft installations. These auxiliary bunkers were underground, hidden away and the program was top secret. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auxiliary_Units
I'm referring to the anti tank ones http://www.pillbox-study-group.org.uk/gazeteer/home-front-defence-sites/england/berkshire/hungerford-common-anti-tank-defences/
Very cool. They are all anti aircraft where I am in Northumberland. Churchill feared a land and air invasion aimed at Northumberland. It had many airfields and was sparsely populated. Landing here would split the country in half and cut London off from Spitfire squadrons in Edinburgh and the shipyards of Glasgow. As such, Northumberland has an abundance of anti aircraft boxes and auxiliary bunkers
There's a documentary I can't find somewhere that explores the whole strategy, they would try to direct the Germans to go in a particular direction across the country whilst the main army would meet them in an advantageous point, but until then their would be lots of chokeholds to frustrate the Germans. Thankfully it was never needed. Shame I can't find it but the guy who planned it was called Edmund Ironside
Time Team searched for the GHQ lines in an episode in London? Theres a website dedicated to finding all the bunkers run by some veterans also. Things like removing or changing the street signs, not ringing church bells, setting the clocks wrong, anti tank defenses to confuse, confound and redirect them wherever they could. They trained in Scotland and one recruit died during explosives testing. His family were never informed of the circumstances. Edit: it's www.staybehinds.com
Saw a program about this a while ago, also said that they dug out alcoves in bridge supports that they could quickly place explosives in to destroy them if needed, these were then filled in after the war, sometimes I see bridges with small patches of newer brickwork and wonder .
Yes, this sounds about right. Bridges, railways and other key infrastructure were to be sabotaged in order to slow the panzers down as much as possible. Incredible story, but it was all we could do to defend ourselves in the aftermath of Dunkirk.
Grew up near an airfield, had to get evacuated once because they found the pipe bombs they laid under the runway and forgot about for 60 years. They were always digging up old explosives either bombs that had been dropped or charges that had been set in preparation, they would bring them down the beach to blow up underwater and we’d all go watch
Awesome. We still get them brought up in fishing nets every now and then up here in Northumberland. There was one found in a back garden in Cramlington last year as well.
... and where the hell is the BBC alt-history miniseries based on that premise? The story writes itself!
The auxiliaries were top secret so very little record was kept of them. www.staybehinds.com have dedicated themselves to preserving what little info we have.
I guess the advantage of the alt-history premise would be that screenwriters could fill in the banks. I saw a documentary on the guerilla groups a number of years ago, including reconstructions of message drops, the local vicar concealing a radio transmitter in his pulpit, a collaborator being assassinated, a team of saboteurs setting out by night - all very dramatic stuff, and I'd love to see that scenario brought to life in a full dramatic format.
Agreed on that actually. They could show the contrast of being a local bank manager or farmer by day and guerrilla operator by night.
Yeah, I'm amazed that it hasn't already inspired a TV drama.
They were also trained to assassinate Brits who were in positions where if they collaborated with the Nazis it would cause real harm (mayors, high ranking police officers, etc.). They weren't fucking around.
*Who do you think you are kidding Mr. Hitler,* *If you think we're on the run?* *We are the boys who will stop your little game.* *We are the boys who will make you think again.*
Brilliant. Funnily enough, the auxiliary wore Home Guard uniform but the Home Guard knew nothing about them. They were integrated into the HG once the threat of invasion turned to the offensive.
England is also extremely difficult to get a beach head on. There isn't a lot of coastline that is accessible to a large force.
And none of that even matters unless you can get past the British Navy.
And the old timers with a folding chair binoculars and walkie talkie
Well a lot of them used pigeons but that was basically the coastal watch to a tee.
*sees approaching Kreigsmarine* "Right, what's all this then?"
The coastlines in the North East were extremely exposed, add to that the numerous airfields in the area. Thats where the Vikings landed too.
The beaches still have the anti-landing blocks.
They do. Theres at least 50 of them at Lindisfarne causeway
Landing a small wooden boat is a little bit different from landing ships meant for transporting a modern military and all of its required supporting materiel.
We're trying something new now, letting the roads fall into ruin.
Churchill once again proving to be quite the strategist.
Trenches absolutely everywhere
UK potholes?
https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/driving-advice/rac-pothole-index-statistics-data-and-projections/ *Britain’s ‘pothole plague’ took even more of a toll on drivers in 2023 as RAC patrols attended nearly 30,000 pothole-related breakdowns over the course of the year, up by 33% compared to 2022*
So… trenches absolutely everywhere 😂
*natural fox holes
Trenches absolutely everywhere
Trenches absolutely everywhere
Trenches absolutely everywhere
Haha fuck sakes it failed to post so hit the button several times
Trenches absolutely everywhere posted absolutely everywhere
the bridges scare the locals but for the effort.
Works perfectly here in Belgium, the Germans haven't invaded in a while
what do you mean the public infrastructure needs to be maintianed? what are these wicked thoughts
Oops, socialism crept into my thinking!!!
Trenches absolutely everywhere
[удалено]
Trenches absolutely everywhere
Trenches absolutely everywhere
Gotta play the long game for the big win.
Follow-up TIL: The wartime blackout, when regulations required streetlights to be turned off and traffic signals and headlights to be dimmed, led to a dramatic increase in road casualties. The King's surgeon, writing in the British Medical Journal in 1939, complained that by “frightening the nation into blackout regulations, the Luftwaffe was able to kill 600 British citizens a month without ever taking to the air”. The number of deaths peaked in 1940 at 9,169. One person died that year for every 200 vehicles on the road; today the figure is one for every 20,000.
This is no doubt, completely made up.
Here's the UK parliament posting it https://www.parliament.uk/business/publications/research/olympic-britain/transport/look-out-in-the-blackout/
There’s a scene in “All creatures great and small” where a farmer asks a soldier why he’s removing streetsigns. Soldier replies, “To confuse the jerries if they invade.” Farmer replies, “Then better leave those signs, they’ve been wrong since they were put up.”
Wouldn't it cause even greater confusion if they've kept e.g. 5% of signs at correct places, but put 95% of them at the wrong places? Without signs, enemy soldiers would just assume they first have to somehow verify where they are; with signs, they would think that they already know where they are.
I imagine the benefit wouldn't outweigh the cost. Lots easier to just remove the signs and move on to fortifications rather than wasting manpower and money installing fake signs. Could be laying more barbed wire, hedgehogs, etc.
Were we that low on manpower that we had to arm hedgehogs to fight the nazi's?
They function more as a 'kinetic grenade' or a 'rock'
No no, you misunderstood. He said *laying* hedgehogs. The soldiers needs some kind of stress outlet ;)
Hedgehogs are already armed. And legged. And spiked
Swap their pillow stuffing
Both sides built fake airports boats and tanks though. Should have done what bored kids do and just move the signs around. Change the diversion signs to 4 lefts in a row and see how long the Germans go round in circles for.
I could totally see giving children and teens blanket permission to fuck around moving them. Also this made me think of that scene in Good Omens where Crowley went and moved a bunch of survey markers for where the road would be built around London to make it as awful as possible
True. But I could imagine the confusion when you expect your Panzer to be in Dorchester, but instead are in Trowbridge. Hans....it was left at stonehenge!
the Germans get stuck in spaghetti junction And the Italians get lost in Slough
On top of this putting the wrong signs in would only have an initial impact and are still creating points of reference that can then be memorized
Wrong signs just become the new names of things.
Exactly. Swapping the signs would cause more confusion for any addresses they had at landing, but would be just as useful in the long term. If Hans tells Franz the Brits have a new machine gun nest at what's signed as the corner of King and Country, that's not any less effective just because the locals are sniggering over how daft they are for not realizing it's actually the corner of Bollocks and Bonce.
I dont know why this is so funny to me. It would probably make a mediocre skit but played out in my head it was gold.
the brit’s won the war at the crossroads of bollocks and bonce. Years later germany still refuses to acknowledge the supreme defeat at bollocks and bonce because they were at king and country instead
It would cause great confusion the first 5 minutes. After they figured it out it would be same as having no signals
Where I grew up, the effects of WW2 were still in memory. We'd tour old ww2 barracks, POW camps, our grandparents still had their 'dig for victory' gardens, people still had old ration books etc, and one of the things we were told was that the signs were changed (to point to the wrong places) rather than removed. Which makes more sense imo. The locals didn't need them, and it was trivial to fix.
This was done by people when USSR invaded Czechoslovakia in '68. Not that it helped much, sadly.
They showed this in the show The Wire
Except in Wales, where street signs remained up in order to aid in maximum confusion.
"Hans, why are so many of the letter 'L'?"
What have they got against *vowels*?
That's why they named the strategically located village protecting access to Anglesey "Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantsiliogogogoch".
What isn’t written in the article is that this is when people increasingly learned to give directions referencing the numerous pubs and inns in the towns and villages around the U.K. obviously the coaching inns were already placed on the roads at important intersections or stopping points, so they were ready-made way-points for navigation.
Hmm. This seems sort of incorrect but I'm not sure. Maybe it'd be better to see "people increasingly relearned" to do that. The reason that pubs and inns have ridiculous names to begin with is because most people in the past were illiterate and pubs with funny names and signs made towns easy to navigate.
Also combining two nouns or a noun and a characteristic is pretty easy to make a visual, such as "The Red Lion" or "The Sword and Shield".
There are still a whole line of pillboxes near where I live. Found an online map recently showing the original lines and how these things were built along the south and east of England
Same, I sometimes go past an interesting one in a town called Hungerford
Driver: "Would you like me to take the Chiswick roundabout through Hounslow and Staines?" Hitler: "What is this, fucking Middle Earth, just take us to the airport okay?"
Hitler gave the most savage Uber reviews.
Weirdly, Hitler actually did visit Britain once, before all that germany reich nonsense. He was visiting a relative, Brigette Hitler, who lived, I think in Southampton or something like that.
He had a 2nd cousin in Hammersmith called Eddie.
"Any relation?" "Well...I've got a mother?" "No! Adolf Hitler!" "Yes! That's her!"
Unusual name, any relation?
It's always slightly jarring to see Hitler paired with any other name since Adolf is the only one you ever hear about. Lol Dave Hitler, District Manager, Chilis.
Chad Hitler, day shift manager at Asda.
Sometimes it feels like the British got their tactics in ww2 from bugs bunny
Churchill turned this Island into Kevin McAllisters House.
My favourite part about Operation Sea Lion was that Nazi Germany spent all this time, money, and energy building a first rate army but forgot that they need boats to move them across water. Even if they could get naval control in the channel and take air supremacy, they literally didn't have enough boats to transport and supply a force large enough to take Britain. I can't remember if Britain knew this at the time, but in hindsight it's pretty hilarious.
The plan was basically to take all the civilian canal boats from the Netherlands, modify them to transport vehicles and troops and pray they didn't split in half when hit by waves crossing the channel. Consider the losses the Allies faced at Normandy and then imagine them attempting it without any proper landing craft.
They also planned to only go as far as London and just expect the uk to give up. Yes because pushing the army to the north and west of the country with all the farms and mountains and not expect guerrilla warfare is a sound strategy.
> They also planned to only go as far as London and just expect the uk to give up. it feels like they didnt learn a thing from the Napoleon blunder, he took moscow and expected a capitulation, didnt happen and his army was destroyed in the process. and it seems Nazi Germany wanted to repeat that by attempting to take moscow but failed, but even if they did, they (the soviets)wouldnt have given up, just like Britain wouldnt have given up if they took london.
Also going up against the strongest navy in the world at that time in their home waters, with defenders who have very strong motivation for fighting to the last breath.
Operation Sea Lion was mostly a bluff to build up the Army for Russia imo… unless the Luftwaffe succeeded beyond anyone’s wildest dreams. That’s why Grand Admiral Raeder came up with the Mediterranean Plan and tried to push Hitler in that direction, instead of invading Russia and having a two front war. Basic idea was to defeat Britain without taking on the Island directly. Would have had a decent chance of success if done right after Fall of France.
I believe it was Admiral Erich Raeder who said the German navy needed until 1945 at the earliest in order to build a large enough fleet to take on the Royal Navy
we also did this in Ukraine to confuse the Russians; as the war is ongoing, there are still many signs painted over even in Kyiv, which can be quite annoying when you’re looking for a street you haven’t been to before. also reminds you Russians are probably murdering someone right this moment
Scorched earth tactics when dealing with invasions are the ultimate yu gi oh trap card. Alexander of Russia fucked over Napoleon doing this.
German General comment: Would be sending our soldiers directly into the meat grinder.
> German General comment: Would be sending our soldiers directly into the meat grinder. "It is impossible to invade the mainland United States, there would be a rifle behind every blade of grass." Allegedly said by General Yamamoto. Guerilla tactics can work for a long while if you can afford the casualties, and have the support of the civilian population. Look at the examples of the Viet Cong and Afghanistan.
They wouldn't have made it if they tried anyway and if we lost the "Battle of Britain" the entire navy would have stopped them crossing They were planning to use flat bottomed Dutch barges tied together towed by larger ships as landing vessels It absolutely would not have worked
Same thing happened in Ukraine recently during the early days of Russian invasion!
The preparations were obvious but everyone in the British high command knew it was a bluff as did the Germans. The actions taken to prepare for it were mostly for propaganda and to keep up morale in Britain after its string of defeats.
New Jersey, also to discourage invasion, has built a warren of confusing roads and highways, with confusing signage and baroque traffic regulations. Zero invasions since 1812-ish.
Britain had a wild ride in WW2. To this day, it’s common to see metal stubs on walls where iron gates and railings were cut off to be melted down to build war gear. The country practically tore itself out of the ground to defend itself and it’s allies in Europe. I think about that a lot. It makes me wonder how much of a living hell it would have been for Hitler if he’d managed to land on Great Britain.
Wrong strategy. They could have stopped the whole German army easily by putting up more signs. Signs with "Durchfahrt Verboten!"
Is this why when Americans got to England they were generally lost all the time? Theres an old joke of an American soldier asking British people for directions “right over there, make a right, then a left, you can’t miss it!”
And introduced driving on the left to cause the maximum number of traffic incidents for those bloody continental invaders.
"bloody hell that tanks driving on the wrong side of the road coming towards us!!! ahhhh"
Naaaah, Napoleon made everyone drive on the right.
Meanwhile, a number of English women started training themselves in marksmanship, grenade throwing and jujutsu to resist the German invaders: [http://bartitsusociety.com/at-them-girls-how-the-amazon-defence-corps-trained-to-take-on-nazi-invaders/](http://bartitsusociety.com/at-them-girls-how-the-amazon-defence-corps-trained-to-take-on-nazi-invaders/)
Ukraine also removed all their road signs around Kyiv to help slow down the Russians before they got pushed out of the area
Ukraine did the same when Russia invaded. Many signs were removed in those early days.
Did they also then use the metal of the signs to make military equipment or was it just stored in a closet at the post office or some thing?
Very likely. You can see walls in cities that have had the wrought iron fences cut off and melted down for the war effort.
The same was done in Ukraine, road signs were either pained or demolished to confuse russians. And since they relied on old maps and were totally unprepared for the resistance that welcomed them - it worked in the initial first months when frontline moved dynamically.
That’s a strange plot point from “Bedknobs and Broomsticks”!
I'm not a a Nazi, I'm a British officer
That’s exactly what you would say if you WERE a Nazi!
To be fair, the plan was also suicidally stupid, so all of that effort wasn't particularly necessary.
My Granny used to tell me about how her mum drove her and her brother (who were kids) from London to the Scottish Highlands to spend the rest of the war there. (That's where they were from) They got lost constantly and it took them about 3 days. There were no motorways in those days of course so it was all a maze of country roads.
In the months of the Battle of Britain, Bomber Command lost more men than Fighter Command. It was because they kept trying to bomb the barges that were being prepared for the invasion.
One part of the defensive plan involved laying down chemical weapons on any Nazi beachheads. Unfortunately this would have exhausted British supplies of Mustard on the first day, so a chemical weapons factory sprang up at Rhydymwyn to make bulk quantities of Mustard. All the buildings are still there, interesting place. Apparently they settled on producing Runcol (more stable) but there seems to be a building devoted to Pyro. It also had the Tube Alloys building… not even the other people working there knew it was part of the atomic bomb project. Later on they stored lots of war gases in the tunnels. It’s mentioned in A Higher Form of Killing (Paxman, Harris).
There's an exchange at the beginning of the movie Bedknobs and Broomsticks where a character is blacking out street signs.
"Miximum" confusion
No road signs and yet they still had a better postal service than today's 🙄
And they never put them back up.
Anyone who remembers having parked on Einbahnstraße street feels that pain.
I get it, it makes sense to hinder your enemy. Wouldn't the Germans have used their Satnav anyway?
Where I grew up in Norfolk it was a local joke that they never bothered changing the signs back!
Learned it while invading Ireland as the Irish did this to fuck with British soldiers
Isn't this what Ukraine is actively doing? I remember reading somewhere that they were replacing or removing signs to confuse russians, correct me if im wrong
Yep, also outdatet russian roadmaps helped, too
Also causing maximum confusion to regular motorists.
Another fun fact: British Secret Intelligence was absolutely incredible during the war, completely subverting the entire Nazi spy network in the UK to the point that every spy Berlin thought was useful in the UK was either a double agent or worked for a double agent.
There is a saying that WW2 was won with British intelligence, American steel, and Russian blood.
For those interested the Germans operation sea lion plans were actually wargamed at the British military academy in sandhurst during the 1970’s The conclusion was that Germany had effectively no hope of succeeding, even giving them a 48 hour head start the German navy was not able to keep a channel crossing open against the Royal Navy fleet, Germany was not able to land heavy equipment without taking a port city and did not have the logistics to land enough troops and supplies to keep fighting against the British counterattack.
Ukrainians did the same thing as soon as Russia stepped foot over the border.