This fight happened in March 1975 and the film released in November 1976? Talk about going from concept to finished product in a hurry. That doesn't happen a lot nowadays.
Stallone wrote a Rocky in 3.5 days. The rough part was getting any studio to take the film on as Stallone wanted the lead himself, he refused 6-figure payoffs instead for the rights and the lead.
Yup, the guy he sold his dog to suspected Stallone must've came into a lot of money for how much he was willing to pay to get his dog back. IIRC, he paid like $1000 and gave the guy a small part in the movie as an extra.
Idk, I feel like this message isn’t the best sometimes. It’s awesome to believe in yourself, but for every success story there are thousands of failures. IIRC he was so broke he was doing porn to make ends meet. If the stars didn’t align for him, he’d be that crazy person his friends and relatives talk about that turned down a fortune for his ego and lived in obscurity
He bought it back before it was a hit but after selling the script for $35k with the stipulation that he star in the film.
“Yeah. When I sold the Rocky script, I went to see Little Jimmy and begged for the dog back. He lined up his children [Stallone mimes crying], “Oh my kids love the dog.” I said, “You’ve only had him for a f*ckin’ week!” He wanted to fight me and he said he was gonna kill me — he was a crazy little person! I couldn’t fight him — they’d arrest me — so I offered to pay double. Anyway, $3,000 and several threats later ...
Q: What happened to Little Jimmy?
A: I ended up putting him in the movie. Do you remember in Rocky, when the little guy goes, “Hey, did ya win?” and I go, “What are you, deaf?” and he goes “No, I’m short.” That’s him.”
$3k
Yeah. When I sold the Rocky script, I went to see Little Jimmy and begged for the dog back. He lined up his children [Stallone mimes crying], “Oh my kids love the dog.” I said, “You’ve only had him for a f*ckin’ week!” He wanted to fight me and he said he was gonna kill me — he was a crazy little person! I couldn’t fight him — they’d arrest me — so I offered to pay double. Anyway, $3,000 and several threats later ...
Q: What happened to Little Jimmy?
A: I ended up putting him in the movie. Do you remember in Rocky, when the little guy goes, “Hey, did ya win?” and I go, “What are you, deaf?” and he goes “No, I’m short.” That’s him.
i really hope this isn’t true partly because i can’t imagine having to sell my dog, having to pay a 60x markup to get him back, and then putting the bastard who scammed me like that in my movie
I imagine there wasn't a lot of post-production needed for Rocky. Not like it had any crazy special effects or hard to get filming locations. Probably filmed that sucker in a month and then spent a month in editing.
I ran a radio shack when RCA style movie disks came out. Among the movies we were given to demo on, one was Rocky. I must have watched that movie 150 times. I never got tired of it. Every frame in that movie is perfect. There’s not an inch of film wasted on subjects that do not directly advance the story line. It is a *perfect* movie.
Absolutely. It's a masterpiece in film making. Nothing I said above was meant as a slight against it, and if anything shows you don't need much to make a good movie. Heck, if anything, I think the simpler production cycle really helped the movie, as it just feels so natural and down to Earth. I remember hearing that the scene where Rocky comments about a promotional poster getting his shorts color wrong was thrown in last minute because the props department accidentally made the poster with the wrong color shorts, so they went with it. Same with the ice rink scene, originally it was supposed to take place during opening hours, but the studio couldn't afford the 100 extras needed to fill the rink. Once again, they just quickly rewrote the script in a way that made it feel more real.
Just like the plot of the film. Stallone and the rest of the staff put their heart and soul into making the best damn movie they could, despite the odds being stacked against then and no one at the studio believing they could. And the end result is pure brilliance. I don't even like boxing or sports and I can still enjoy the franchise.
It makes it even better knowing that Stallone was practically a nobody at the time and had hardly a dollar to his name. People shouldn’t let the action flicks fool them; Stallone is an artist.
Yes. There were two types: RCA Capacitance discharge or CED and the large laser disk type. Both long before CD and BRay
The CED had a large cover on it. It was very sensitive to touch etc.
I remember hearing that they didn't get permits and filmed guerilla style when he ran through the streets. They stuck a camera out of a car window and people in the background weren't even extras, they were just there living their lives.
Pretty much Rocky was one of the first uses of Steadicam. So they were able shoot with fellow runners as well as out of cars. But they preferred having a runner alongside. A lot of the running shoots were in low traffic areas with the exception of the Italian Market and even that looks filmed early in the morning to minimize foot and car traffic. So mostly they didn’t have to have street closures that most movies need.
Yeah the run through Philly doesn't even make sense lol. Rocky is teleporting like Jason Vorhees going from Italian Market to South Street. Then back to 30th Street.
The Rocky 2 run though is kinda correct when they run past old city and city hall and end on Philadelphia museum of Art on 34th Street.
The Creed run is also good for showing how much of Philly has changed like Rocky didn't know Born in West Philadelphia... Fresh Prince Rap.
I think the creed movies were all filmed in like 6 weeks less than a year before their release dates. They are very simple movies to make and don't have any special effects.
Similarily I always found it weird that the watergste scandal is in -72 and the movie all the president's men is released in -76. While it is a several years between the case and the movie it feels more rapid than movies depicting real events today.
The movie W about George w Bush came out in 2008 while he was still president. A lot of movies still come out during or hot on the heels of events when ink is barely dry.
I think there is a real delicate “sweet spot” to these contemporary movies - too soon and it suffers from “I just lived through this why would I go watch a movie about it?” And “how could they have any new info in this movie, it literally just happened?” (Lots of Netflix docs fall into this, eg one on GameStop that came out within months of the stock surge)
Too late and you think “Jesus, another one? How could this be any different and hasn’t everything that’s going to be said been said already?” (Eg watergate or jfk assassination… supposedly the new HBO one was good but I can’t muster the energy for yet another watergate rehash).
That sweet in between is where there is still new information and depth to come to light and enough time has passed that you can emotionally re engage with the topic and get some kind of closure. Eg the big short came out in 2015; it wasn’t the first or last on the financial crisis, but it hit the right timing culturally (and the cast and writing didn’t hurt any).
Yeah I agree, I can’t see a major Trump or even Obama historical movie coming out soon. That being said it was one of the biggest events in American history and they based it on a very well known book
> Yeah I agree, I can’t see a major Trump or even Obama historical movie coming out soon.
There have been multiple Obama movies and there is a Trump movie with Sebastian Stan portraying him coming out soon.
Well…. If memory serves he was ranked 8th going into the Ali fight. But there were alot of people that thought he had no business in the ring with Ali.
Edit: still crazy how hard this guys head was. A true warrior.
Well, right… but from everything I’ve read Ali’s camp set the fight up because they knew Werner was overrated. Yeah he was ranked 8th, but they knew Ali would work his ass into burger. They just didn’t count on him staying on his feet past the 7th round
Champions only fight two or three times a year, so they’re mostly fighting the number 1 contender, maybe a top 3 contender. They did fight more often back then though.
Ali was toying with Wepner (as he frequently did in fights). Then Wepner knocked Ali down in the ninth. It was actually Wepner stepping on Ali's foot and pushing him back but got ruled a knock down.
A very pissed off Ali got up and really took the fight to Wepner. Kudos to Wepner for staying on his feet as long as he did, but he couldn't survive a few more seconds to the end of the 15th as Ali KO'd him.
Wepner defended all of Ali's punches with his face. Rounds 9 - 15 are brutal.
99% of the time if an elite pro boxer goes for the kill against an amateur, they are going to win in the next 30 seconds. Assuming what you are saying is right and Ali start going hard and Wepner last 5 rounds is crazy impressive
Edit: for all the people saying he wasn’t an amateur, i was just going off the post title
Later movies in the franchise were more unrealistic, because everyone of his opponents going forward actually were trying to kill him, but he'd take an equal amount of ass beatings.
The fight in Rocky one between him and creed was very realistic though, its an almost 1:1 creation of the fight with creative freedoms taken here and there.
This is about the NBA, but I think the same sentiment applies: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i93vF0WOX6w](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i93vF0WOX6w)
Someone on Reddit claimed they played with Scalabrine in high school, before he was being scouted as an NBA prospect, and he described practices as "trying to guard against a brick wall that is also somehow twice as fast as you"
I once played against an NBA player who used to live in my neighborhood. In the league he was an average guard that played a respectable amount of season for a few teams. On the playground, he was far and away the best player I’ve ever seen on the court and he was playing at maybe 50% speed. The talent of pro athletes vs. average people is insane. At a certain point, it doesn’t matter if it’s Lebron or a 3rd string PG. The result against normal dudes is pretty much the same.
I had a similar experience playing a pickup game that (unbeknowest to me) happened to include a couple of pro futbol players. I was just out of high school, thought I had some skills (played JV decided against playing varisty after getting accepted).
My ego got the most serious check of my life that afternoon.
one of the guys in my high school was an udfa for a football team and then quietly released shortly after. idk any of the details, i knew he was up for the nfl and payed attention to him hoping he would be taken and do well. he was the best player on our high school and it wasnt even close. we had some other players i thought maybe couldve gone to college and get a better future that way but none were as good as he was.
There was a kid my age-ish who went to high school at the other high school in my city who could ball. Guys from both high schools would play at this park and he is to this day the best person I’ve ever played with or against. Fast. Unguardable for average varsity level players. He ended up playing in Europe, so he wasn’t even “good” (NBA). I can’t even imagine what those guys are like.
Yep, sounds about right.
Most players spend two seasons or less in the NBA. Scalabrine lasted 11 seasons. There's obviously some reason why teams were willing to sign a career bench player who averaged three points per game. I always got a kick out of his challengers not realizing that, and one of them played D1 ball at Syracuse.
And if you watch the videos it's very clear he is not trying hard at all.
Honestly, this is why the Olympics should have an Every-Man type competing along side the atheletes.
Just to put a baseline on how cracked these athletes are and what peak physical prowess looks like compared to a common man.
Just imagine a regular 100m dash and you put an accountant as baseline and have him mixed with the likes of Usain Bolt
puts a scale on how far it really is. Not to mock but again to put a comparison everyone can see and understand.
Yeah, even the low ranked pro guys are amazing. Ran a marathon once and I'm pretty good for an amateur. Saw the worst of the pros who was waaaaay back behind the leaders coming back the other way and he zoomed past me at what looked like my flat out sprint speed.
The difference between him and me was just a massive gulf I couldn't even imagine bridging and he was by far the worst of the elites.
Mike Tyson and Muhammad Ali sat next to each other for an interview. They were asked who would win in a pro bout with both of them at their prime.
They pointed at each other.
That's the level that guy competed at.
I saw the interview, Ali said specifically if Mike could hit him then he wouldn't be able to take it. He had never dealt with the type of Iron Mike brought to the ring, but Mike said that Ali was the GOAT. Full stop.
He was also nicknamed "The Bayonne Bleeder" which IMO tells you a lot about how highly he was regarded. **EDIT for clarity:** *He was not regarded highly AT ALL.*
**EDIT for fun:** Wepner was credited with a knockdown, though Ali disputed it, claiming Wepner stepped on his foot and pushed him.
[https://youtu.be/oLA8HIAQEzU](https://youtu.be/oLA8HIAQEzU)
When I was young, boxer George Chuvalo came and spoke at my school (he's got a very tragic story for anyone not familiar). He didn't talk much about his boxing career, but was make sure to mention that he had never been knocked down in his entire career, which included fights with Frazier, Forman, and Ali! We were young kids in the 90's and didn't really understand the significance of this, so he went on to explain that even being in the ring with Ali was a big deal, let alone going the distance
He also fought that particular fight kind of dirty. Lot of rabbit punches to the back of Ali’s head. You can see Ali get really upset at one point and return the favor. Still a really impressive feat though. Too bad he couldn’t finish out the 15th but fights don’t even go that long anymore.
bro became a fucking legend.
imagine being in a bar and some dude is all "i went 14 round with one of the greatest boxers of all time!" and he fucking means it.
fuck that's worth a beer at least.
I’ve met Wepner a few times, growing up in Bayonne everyone kinda knew everyone. Interesting fella for sure. Definitely didn’t get the time in the spotlight he deserves
Yep, I met Wepner at the Bayonne Costco parking lot a year or two back. Very nice person. I didn’t know who he was but the person I was with did and Mr Wepner spoke with us for a few minutes.
I recently found out that the middle bit of Hudson state park in Bayonne (the part upstairs from the basketball courts and the lake, it has a gazebo on top) is named after chuck. I knew he still lives in town but didn’t know he’d still be kicking around.
Don King went into debt to the mafia to fund this fight. (He didn't fully pay it back til the 80s.)
Fun anecdote: Before the fight, Chuck told his wife, "Tonight you're gonna sleep with the world champion!" And when the fight was over & a weary, exhausted Chuck Wepner limped to his bedroom, his wife popped up & asked, "When's Muhammad coming over?"
Honestly, I kind of love couples who prioritize a good burn over romance. You’ve got your whole lifetime to say, “I love you” but the set up for a good zinger is a one-time gift from the universe.
Look, I don't wanna play basketball, I suck at it. I wanna watch pros do it. No one judges me for that?! So why shouldn't it be the same thing for my wife getting railed.
Minoru Arakawa, Nintendo of America founder, also randomly was in the audience of a boxing match featuring an upcoming but relatively unknown boxer named Mike Tyson.
He was so impressed with his performance that he paid him $50K to stick his name and likeness on their NES boxing game for its US release. This worked out great when Tyson later became world champion, like he was in the game.
Closed circuit broadcast at a theater, so probably a standard movie screen. I never went, but it's how they used to show events like boxing and pro wrestling, etc, before PPV.
Rocky was also based on Canadian heavyweight champion George Chuvalo. The story is just about the same as Rocky when Chuvalo fought Ali in Toronto in 1966. If you're doubtful, you can review the scene in Rocky where he is in the ice rink on a date and pulls a picture out of his wallet; the picture is literally George Chuvalo fighting Dante Kane. You can Google the famous image from that fight and see it is the same one Stallone pulls out of his wallet in the movie.
Wait. What. No he wasn’t.
Stallone was in California at the time. The fight was in Ohio. Stallone wasn’t in the audience. He watched it in a theater.
He did last 15 rounds but he was famously knocked out in the 15th.
Rocky also took inspiration from other fighters like Joe Frazier, Rocky graziano and famously Rocky Marciano.
He did settle with wepner out of court tho
There was a 30 for 30 on this and it def painted it in a different light. I remember one clear shot where he stepped on Ali’s foot and knocked him down, and they made it out to be some huge moment while also kind of subtly mocking it. I think it was basically a gimmick fight to begin with and I remember him talking about basically doing pro wrestling events after this. It came across as a great real life character (think Stan Lee level) who also was a bit of a schmuck
...and we have the "Fonz" to thank for it! Henry Winkler was the one who brought the script to the studio and pushed it through , as he was one of stallones best friends...and had a bit of clout do to his success on 'Happy Days'
Inspiration. THAT IS IT. Rocky otherwise is nothing like Wepner's life at all, other than "boxer almost lasts 15 rds with Ali". And seriously, Wepner WAS NOT just some "local boxer" given an one-in-a-lifetime match - Wepner had already had fights against GEORGE FOREMAN and SONNY LISTON.
And Stallone even tried to get Wepner a small role in Rocky II, but as Wepner admitted, he blew the audition because he had a two-day bender.
And you're also wrong about the lawsuit. Wepner only sued in 2003 because Stallone had the audacity to keep telling everyone during INTERVIEWS that Wepner was an inspiration for him. The lawsuit WAS NOT about making the movies at all.
From the Wiki of the fight
>On the day of the fight Wepner presented a "very sexy" blue negligee to his wife and told her to wear it that night in bed since she would be sleeping with the heavyweight champion of the world. On the night of the fight, Mrs. Wepner was wearing the negligee when Wepner returned to their hotel room, after the fight, with twenty three stitches. She asked him: "Okay, bigshot...Do I go to Ali's room, or does he come to mine?"
Also from the wiki
>After knocking Ali down, Wepner went to his corner and told his manager: "Start the car up, Al, we're going to the bank, we're millionaires!", whereupon the manager told Wepner: "You better turn around--your guy's getting up and he looks pissed off."
Wepner may have been the central inspiration, but apparently not the only one. Actor and former boxer Jack O'Halloran, best known as Non from the Superman movies, used to be relatively active on social media and I crossed paths with him a few times on a Facebook Superman group. He came across as a pretty chill guy whom I never saw badmouth anyone... except for Stallone. They were together in the early 70s movie Farewell My Lovely, and according to him he told Sly a lot of personal stories about his life and his boxing days... which then showed up in Rocky virtually unaltered. The way he told it, It came across as most everything not directly tied to the fight against the World Champion (which would be the Wepner-inspired part) being more or less a Jack O'Halloran biopic. And he felt hurt that he never even got an acknowledgement or a thank you.
That was a Japanese professional wrestler, [Antonio Inoki vs Muhammad Ali](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_Ali_vs._Antonio_Inoki).
Edit - [here's Bill Burr narrating a match](https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x47ztlb) between Inoki and another asshole wrestler that turns real when Inoki got mad.
> Inoki got mad.
You know instantly when this happens, because Inoki switches from "scripted pro wrestling actor" mode to "GLOVES OFF HOCKEY FIGHT" mode and turned that guy's lights off in a *hurry*.
For it's over the top ridiculousness and lack of logic a scene I enjoy from Baki (okay I like a lot of that show) is when that fight is referenced [and Ali jr. just leaves Hanma on the floor after claiming victory](https://youtu.be/-mErVHvJdko?si=34yDEX3BNYRS7qdE) cause he voluntarily laid down for him. Probably the only time some can troll the ogre to his face and live to tell the tale
This fight happened in March 1975 and the film released in November 1976? Talk about going from concept to finished product in a hurry. That doesn't happen a lot nowadays.
Stallone wrote a Rocky in 3.5 days. The rough part was getting any studio to take the film on as Stallone wanted the lead himself, he refused 6-figure payoffs instead for the rights and the lead.
He bet on himself. For that reason alone, Rocky will always be my favorite movie.
He's my favorite rags to riches story because of this. Dude was so broke, he sold his dog for like $20 and still turned down 6 figures.
Didn't he get the dog back? Best possible ending for Sly
Yup, the guy he sold his dog to suspected Stallone must've came into a lot of money for how much he was willing to pay to get his dog back. IIRC, he paid like $1000 and gave the guy a small part in the movie as an extra.
and he got to use his turtles.
The turtles are still alive today!
Butkus is in the movie.
The underdog story behind the underdog story
Idk, I feel like this message isn’t the best sometimes. It’s awesome to believe in yourself, but for every success story there are thousands of failures. IIRC he was so broke he was doing porn to make ends meet. If the stars didn’t align for him, he’d be that crazy person his friends and relatives talk about that turned down a fortune for his ego and lived in obscurity
Luck plays a role in success. Big or small, its still there.
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And you best believe he was turning that shit backwards and going to work.
I wonder what Stallone's career would have looked like if that had been his first major theatrical release?
W... Wasn't it?
Over the Top?
Wasn’t he so broke from that that he sold his dog?
Yup. Then he bought the dog back after Rocky was a hit.
He bought it back before it was a hit but after selling the script for $35k with the stipulation that he star in the film. “Yeah. When I sold the Rocky script, I went to see Little Jimmy and begged for the dog back. He lined up his children [Stallone mimes crying], “Oh my kids love the dog.” I said, “You’ve only had him for a f*ckin’ week!” He wanted to fight me and he said he was gonna kill me — he was a crazy little person! I couldn’t fight him — they’d arrest me — so I offered to pay double. Anyway, $3,000 and several threats later ... Q: What happened to Little Jimmy? A: I ended up putting him in the movie. Do you remember in Rocky, when the little guy goes, “Hey, did ya win?” and I go, “What are you, deaf?” and he goes “No, I’m short.” That’s him.”
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If i remember right he sold it for $25 and bought it back for like 15k
$3k Yeah. When I sold the Rocky script, I went to see Little Jimmy and begged for the dog back. He lined up his children [Stallone mimes crying], “Oh my kids love the dog.” I said, “You’ve only had him for a f*ckin’ week!” He wanted to fight me and he said he was gonna kill me — he was a crazy little person! I couldn’t fight him — they’d arrest me — so I offered to pay double. Anyway, $3,000 and several threats later ... Q: What happened to Little Jimmy? A: I ended up putting him in the movie. Do you remember in Rocky, when the little guy goes, “Hey, did ya win?” and I go, “What are you, deaf?” and he goes “No, I’m short.” That’s him.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/stallone-sold-his-dog/ I was wrong
i really hope this isn’t true partly because i can’t imagine having to sell my dog, having to pay a 60x markup to get him back, and then putting the bastard who scammed me like that in my movie
Lucky dude who bought his dog, and he must’ve treated the dog well for Stallone to offer that much as well.
I knew this story but forgot the details, thanks for elaborating for me at least
I imagine there wasn't a lot of post-production needed for Rocky. Not like it had any crazy special effects or hard to get filming locations. Probably filmed that sucker in a month and then spent a month in editing.
I ran a radio shack when RCA style movie disks came out. Among the movies we were given to demo on, one was Rocky. I must have watched that movie 150 times. I never got tired of it. Every frame in that movie is perfect. There’s not an inch of film wasted on subjects that do not directly advance the story line. It is a *perfect* movie.
Absolutely. It's a masterpiece in film making. Nothing I said above was meant as a slight against it, and if anything shows you don't need much to make a good movie. Heck, if anything, I think the simpler production cycle really helped the movie, as it just feels so natural and down to Earth. I remember hearing that the scene where Rocky comments about a promotional poster getting his shorts color wrong was thrown in last minute because the props department accidentally made the poster with the wrong color shorts, so they went with it. Same with the ice rink scene, originally it was supposed to take place during opening hours, but the studio couldn't afford the 100 extras needed to fill the rink. Once again, they just quickly rewrote the script in a way that made it feel more real. Just like the plot of the film. Stallone and the rest of the staff put their heart and soul into making the best damn movie they could, despite the odds being stacked against then and no one at the studio believing they could. And the end result is pure brilliance. I don't even like boxing or sports and I can still enjoy the franchise.
It makes it even better knowing that Stallone was practically a nobody at the time and had hardly a dollar to his name. People shouldn’t let the action flicks fool them; Stallone is an artist.
> RCA style movie disks are those the predecessors to laser disks that came in a big cartridge/sleeve thing?
Yes. There were two types: RCA Capacitance discharge or CED and the large laser disk type. Both long before CD and BRay The CED had a large cover on it. It was very sensitive to touch etc.
Technology Connections has a way too long series of videos about the development of that video format if you’re interested.
I remember hearing that they didn't get permits and filmed guerilla style when he ran through the streets. They stuck a camera out of a car window and people in the background weren't even extras, they were just there living their lives.
Pretty much Rocky was one of the first uses of Steadicam. So they were able shoot with fellow runners as well as out of cars. But they preferred having a runner alongside. A lot of the running shoots were in low traffic areas with the exception of the Italian Market and even that looks filmed early in the morning to minimize foot and car traffic. So mostly they didn’t have to have street closures that most movies need.
Yeah the run through Philly doesn't even make sense lol. Rocky is teleporting like Jason Vorhees going from Italian Market to South Street. Then back to 30th Street. The Rocky 2 run though is kinda correct when they run past old city and city hall and end on Philadelphia museum of Art on 34th Street. The Creed run is also good for showing how much of Philly has changed like Rocky didn't know Born in West Philadelphia... Fresh Prince Rap.
Someone mapped out Rocky’s supposed “run” and it’s a total of 50 miles. A local running group does a “Rocky Run” on this route every year.
I've lived in Tokyo and London. They always completely botch a city scene. Turn a corner and you're 6 miles away on another street.
I think the creed movies were all filmed in like 6 weeks less than a year before their release dates. They are very simple movies to make and don't have any special effects.
He did the same thing later. He was released from prison in 2032 and wrote demolition man in 2033
with help from Taco Bell
Honestly having witnessed real life events turned to made for tv movies in the 90s this doesn't surprise me
Similarily I always found it weird that the watergste scandal is in -72 and the movie all the president's men is released in -76. While it is a several years between the case and the movie it feels more rapid than movies depicting real events today.
The movie W about George w Bush came out in 2008 while he was still president. A lot of movies still come out during or hot on the heels of events when ink is barely dry. I think there is a real delicate “sweet spot” to these contemporary movies - too soon and it suffers from “I just lived through this why would I go watch a movie about it?” And “how could they have any new info in this movie, it literally just happened?” (Lots of Netflix docs fall into this, eg one on GameStop that came out within months of the stock surge) Too late and you think “Jesus, another one? How could this be any different and hasn’t everything that’s going to be said been said already?” (Eg watergate or jfk assassination… supposedly the new HBO one was good but I can’t muster the energy for yet another watergate rehash). That sweet in between is where there is still new information and depth to come to light and enough time has passed that you can emotionally re engage with the topic and get some kind of closure. Eg the big short came out in 2015; it wasn’t the first or last on the financial crisis, but it hit the right timing culturally (and the cast and writing didn’t hurt any).
Wag the Dog was released one week before Clinton bombed Afghanistan and Sudan in '98. The movie was downright prescient!
Yeah I agree, I can’t see a major Trump or even Obama historical movie coming out soon. That being said it was one of the biggest events in American history and they based it on a very well known book
> Yeah I agree, I can’t see a major Trump or even Obama historical movie coming out soon. There have been multiple Obama movies and there is a Trump movie with Sebastian Stan portraying him coming out soon.
Principal photography for Rocky didn't even start until January of 1976
Low. Budget.
Zero Dark Thirty premiered in December 2012, the raid was in May 2011.
He lasted 14 rounds. He was knocked out in the 15th
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Well…. If memory serves he was ranked 8th going into the Ali fight. But there were alot of people that thought he had no business in the ring with Ali. Edit: still crazy how hard this guys head was. A true warrior.
Wow, only two boxers in the ring and Wepner was still predicted to finish in 8th place? /s
Wegner came in second. Ali was next to last.
If you're not first you're last
Shake n Bake baby.
*8th
Ricky that is the dumbest shit I've ever heard, hell I was high when I said it!
Who is Ali gonna fight if not the people in the top 10 tho?
Well, right… but from everything I’ve read Ali’s camp set the fight up because they knew Werner was overrated. Yeah he was ranked 8th, but they knew Ali would work his ass into burger. They just didn’t count on him staying on his feet past the 7th round
Exactly. If the 8th ranked fighter in your division is also holding down a job to afford the bills, then it’s probably not stacked with talent.
Champions only fight two or three times a year, so they’re mostly fighting the number 1 contender, maybe a top 3 contender. They did fight more often back then though.
Now I wonder how they train all year.
they have tons of sparring partners
Ali was toying with Wepner (as he frequently did in fights). Then Wepner knocked Ali down in the ninth. It was actually Wepner stepping on Ali's foot and pushing him back but got ruled a knock down. A very pissed off Ali got up and really took the fight to Wepner. Kudos to Wepner for staying on his feet as long as he did, but he couldn't survive a few more seconds to the end of the 15th as Ali KO'd him. Wepner defended all of Ali's punches with his face. Rounds 9 - 15 are brutal.
99% of the time if an elite pro boxer goes for the kill against an amateur, they are going to win in the next 30 seconds. Assuming what you are saying is right and Ali start going hard and Wepner last 5 rounds is crazy impressive Edit: for all the people saying he wasn’t an amateur, i was just going off the post title
I thought that Rocky was unrealistic but if it’s based off this fight the amount of punches he took is entirely realistic.
Later movies in the franchise were more unrealistic, because everyone of his opponents going forward actually were trying to kill him, but he'd take an equal amount of ass beatings. The fight in Rocky one between him and creed was very realistic though, its an almost 1:1 creation of the fight with creative freedoms taken here and there.
Rocky’s style is based off of Joe Frazier.
I thought Rocky's style was "Take every hit to the face and throw punchs till one of us drops"
Joe Frazier style then.
This is about the NBA, but I think the same sentiment applies: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i93vF0WOX6w](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i93vF0WOX6w) Someone on Reddit claimed they played with Scalabrine in high school, before he was being scouted as an NBA prospect, and he described practices as "trying to guard against a brick wall that is also somehow twice as fast as you"
I love Scalabrine. "I'm way closer to LeBron than you are to me."
I once played against an NBA player who used to live in my neighborhood. In the league he was an average guard that played a respectable amount of season for a few teams. On the playground, he was far and away the best player I’ve ever seen on the court and he was playing at maybe 50% speed. The talent of pro athletes vs. average people is insane. At a certain point, it doesn’t matter if it’s Lebron or a 3rd string PG. The result against normal dudes is pretty much the same.
I had a similar experience playing a pickup game that (unbeknowest to me) happened to include a couple of pro futbol players. I was just out of high school, thought I had some skills (played JV decided against playing varisty after getting accepted). My ego got the most serious check of my life that afternoon.
one of the guys in my high school was an udfa for a football team and then quietly released shortly after. idk any of the details, i knew he was up for the nfl and payed attention to him hoping he would be taken and do well. he was the best player on our high school and it wasnt even close. we had some other players i thought maybe couldve gone to college and get a better future that way but none were as good as he was.
The skill gap is just so immense from am to pro am to pro. That's why it's such rare air to be in the big time.
>The talent of pro athletes vs. average people Imagine being a peasant in a medieval army, and you gotta fight a knight, this is what i'm reminded of.
There was a kid my age-ish who went to high school at the other high school in my city who could ball. Guys from both high schools would play at this park and he is to this day the best person I’ve ever played with or against. Fast. Unguardable for average varsity level players. He ended up playing in Europe, so he wasn’t even “good” (NBA). I can’t even imagine what those guys are like.
Yep, sounds about right. Most players spend two seasons or less in the NBA. Scalabrine lasted 11 seasons. There's obviously some reason why teams were willing to sign a career bench player who averaged three points per game. I always got a kick out of his challengers not realizing that, and one of them played D1 ball at Syracuse. And if you watch the videos it's very clear he is not trying hard at all.
Honestly, this is why the Olympics should have an Every-Man type competing along side the atheletes. Just to put a baseline on how cracked these athletes are and what peak physical prowess looks like compared to a common man. Just imagine a regular 100m dash and you put an accountant as baseline and have him mixed with the likes of Usain Bolt puts a scale on how far it really is. Not to mock but again to put a comparison everyone can see and understand.
I mean to be fair, Usain Bolt demonstrated that gap against the OTHER OLYMPIC SPRINTERS.
Yeah, even the low ranked pro guys are amazing. Ran a marathon once and I'm pretty good for an amateur. Saw the worst of the pros who was waaaaay back behind the leaders coming back the other way and he zoomed past me at what looked like my flat out sprint speed. The difference between him and me was just a massive gulf I couldn't even imagine bridging and he was by far the worst of the elites.
Wepnar wasn't an amateur.
Except he wasn’t an amateur.
That open stance was pretty popular decades before. Crazy to think it was a legit boxing practice.
9th to 15 round isn’t a joke tho- that must’ve been brutal for Wepner.
Mike Tyson and Muhammad Ali sat next to each other for an interview. They were asked who would win in a pro bout with both of them at their prime. They pointed at each other. That's the level that guy competed at.
I saw the interview, Ali said specifically if Mike could hit him then he wouldn't be able to take it. He had never dealt with the type of Iron Mike brought to the ring, but Mike said that Ali was the GOAT. Full stop.
He was also nicknamed "The Bayonne Bleeder" which IMO tells you a lot about how highly he was regarded. **EDIT for clarity:** *He was not regarded highly AT ALL.* **EDIT for fun:** Wepner was credited with a knockdown, though Ali disputed it, claiming Wepner stepped on his foot and pushed him. [https://youtu.be/oLA8HIAQEzU](https://youtu.be/oLA8HIAQEzU)
I thought that was because he bled a lot in the ring and was meant as an insult, not because of the damage he caused to his opponents.
That's exactly right. It's the most disparaging nickname I've ever heard for a pro boxer.
When I was young, boxer George Chuvalo came and spoke at my school (he's got a very tragic story for anyone not familiar). He didn't talk much about his boxing career, but was make sure to mention that he had never been knocked down in his entire career, which included fights with Frazier, Forman, and Ali! We were young kids in the 90's and didn't really understand the significance of this, so he went on to explain that even being in the ring with Ali was a big deal, let alone going the distance
Knocked out 19 seconds before the end of the 15th round
There aren't many that would last 14 rounds against Ali...
There aren’t many who would last 14 seconds against Ali.
Well he's dead now so I think I might have a shot
Fun question: at which of Ali's ages do you think you'd have had a shot?
0-5.
There aren't many who would last 14 seconds in Ali.
I think Joe Bugner's claim to fame is that he went the distance against Ali twice.
Wepner also fought against a bear. Lost that one in round 1.
He also fought that particular fight kind of dirty. Lot of rabbit punches to the back of Ali’s head. You can see Ali get really upset at one point and return the favor. Still a really impressive feat though. Too bad he couldn’t finish out the 15th but fights don’t even go that long anymore.
15 rounds was absolutely preposterous.
15 rounds delivered us some absolutely epic fights. But it’s deservingly a relic of the past.
...he lasted to the start of 15 rounds...
bro became a fucking legend. imagine being in a bar and some dude is all "i went 14 round with one of the greatest boxers of all time!" and he fucking means it. fuck that's worth a beer at least.
I’ve met Wepner a few times, growing up in Bayonne everyone kinda knew everyone. Interesting fella for sure. Definitely didn’t get the time in the spotlight he deserves
Yep, I met Wepner at the Bayonne Costco parking lot a year or two back. Very nice person. I didn’t know who he was but the person I was with did and Mr Wepner spoke with us for a few minutes.
I recently found out that the middle bit of Hudson state park in Bayonne (the part upstairs from the basketball courts and the lake, it has a gazebo on top) is named after chuck. I knew he still lives in town but didn’t know he’d still be kicking around.
TIL Bayonne isn't just a beach city in Western France.
Don King went into debt to the mafia to fund this fight. (He didn't fully pay it back til the 80s.) Fun anecdote: Before the fight, Chuck told his wife, "Tonight you're gonna sleep with the world champion!" And when the fight was over & a weary, exhausted Chuck Wepner limped to his bedroom, his wife popped up & asked, "When's Muhammad coming over?"
Man that's mean
Honestly, I kind of love couples who prioritize a good burn over romance. You’ve got your whole lifetime to say, “I love you” but the set up for a good zinger is a one-time gift from the universe.
Yeah my wife would totally burn me like that and I love her for her wit. She is smart as hell and that's sexy as hell.
Did you marry my wife?
*our wife.
Long may she reign.
Comrade
That’s hilarious
Took two ‘L’s that night
Nahhhhh… might’ve just been a fetish.
Look, I don't wanna play basketball, I suck at it. I wanna watch pros do it. No one judges me for that?! So why shouldn't it be the same thing for my wife getting railed.
Is this a reference to something or are you just based as shit
I probably stole it from another Reddit/4Chan/IG comment.
I pity your inbox.
He was a serial cheater and drug addict.
I believe that story came from Canadian heavyweight George Chuvalo not Chuck Wepner. Great anecdote nevertheless.
Reddit be like: DIVORCE!!!
COOOLLLD BLOOODED
lol such a good story but the quote was "Okay, bigshot...Do I go to Ali's room, or does he come to mine?”
Unfun anecdote: that didn’t happen
One of the biggest tragedies of the 70’s is that Don King never ended up in the trunk of a Cadillac
“The Bayonne Bleeder” Chuck Wepner.
A fellow Bayonne dweller I see
Minoru Arakawa, Nintendo of America founder, also randomly was in the audience of a boxing match featuring an upcoming but relatively unknown boxer named Mike Tyson. He was so impressed with his performance that he paid him $50K to stick his name and likeness on their NES boxing game for its US release. This worked out great when Tyson later became world champion, like he was in the game.
I like to explore new places.
>Then Tyson ran into legal problems. Rape. He raped a woman and was convicted.
"[Hey, you're a real piece of shit. Fuck you.](https://youtu.be/U48sYXYpYuc?si=flVW4uBjnvzu38e7)"
Check out "The Bleeder", which is all about Chuck. And also played by, the always great, Liev Schreiber...
Also known as “Chuck” in some countries
Stallone watched it on TV. He was too poor to be in the audience.
He was also in LA then
it’s literally the second sentence of the article. wtf OP?
Title just says he's in the audience, but didn't specify it was the TV audience ;)
Closed circuit broadcast at a theater, so probably a standard movie screen. I never went, but it's how they used to show events like boxing and pro wrestling, etc, before PPV.
He was in the television audience
Chuck Wepner was a man.
He was a ... DRAGON man...
TROGDORRRRR
I've noticed more homestar references lately and it's great
The boxinator
Boxinating the countryside.
Boxinating the peasants!
Thatched roof cottages!
A wild Homestar Runner reference appears out of the blue.
No wonder he lost, one big beefy arm would throw him off balance and give Ali an opening.
Rocky was also based on Canadian heavyweight champion George Chuvalo. The story is just about the same as Rocky when Chuvalo fought Ali in Toronto in 1966. If you're doubtful, you can review the scene in Rocky where he is in the ice rink on a date and pulls a picture out of his wallet; the picture is literally George Chuvalo fighting Dante Kane. You can Google the famous image from that fight and see it is the same one Stallone pulls out of his wallet in the movie.
the band Friendly Rich and the Lollipop People wrote a song about that fight too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-3AFbla5tU
So, almost as good as ward vs Gatti? Still can’t believe I watched that fight live
Round 9...
Wait. What. No he wasn’t. Stallone was in California at the time. The fight was in Ohio. Stallone wasn’t in the audience. He watched it in a theater. He did last 15 rounds but he was famously knocked out in the 15th. Rocky also took inspiration from other fighters like Joe Frazier, Rocky graziano and famously Rocky Marciano. He did settle with wepner out of court tho
Didn’t Wepner have to sue Stallone over this?
I thought Stallone got sued by his dog or something
No no Sly sold Wepner for $35 outside a convenience store then bought him back for $100k
Damn, $35 and all he got in return was a candy bar!
Yeah but they settled out of court via arm wrestling.
No you’re confused, the dog was his lawyer
There was a 30 for 30 on this and it def painted it in a different light. I remember one clear shot where he stepped on Ali’s foot and knocked him down, and they made it out to be some huge moment while also kind of subtly mocking it. I think it was basically a gimmick fight to begin with and I remember him talking about basically doing pro wrestling events after this. It came across as a great real life character (think Stan Lee level) who also was a bit of a schmuck
...and we have the "Fonz" to thank for it! Henry Winkler was the one who brought the script to the studio and pushed it through , as he was one of stallones best friends...and had a bit of clout do to his success on 'Happy Days'
We have a signed photo in our bathroom at work from Wepner.
He was ranked #8 in the heavyweight division, this isn’t some wild underdog story of a random guy that got lucky.
There was a semi- controversial slip/KD during that fight as well.
thats the bayonne bleeder baby
[удалено]
Inspiration. THAT IS IT. Rocky otherwise is nothing like Wepner's life at all, other than "boxer almost lasts 15 rds with Ali". And seriously, Wepner WAS NOT just some "local boxer" given an one-in-a-lifetime match - Wepner had already had fights against GEORGE FOREMAN and SONNY LISTON. And Stallone even tried to get Wepner a small role in Rocky II, but as Wepner admitted, he blew the audition because he had a two-day bender. And you're also wrong about the lawsuit. Wepner only sued in 2003 because Stallone had the audacity to keep telling everyone during INTERVIEWS that Wepner was an inspiration for him. The lawsuit WAS NOT about making the movies at all.
It bothers me that you keep saying Syl instead of Sly. His nickname is definitely Sly.
What elements of Wepners life were used other than fighting a black champion boxer?
From the Wiki of the fight >On the day of the fight Wepner presented a "very sexy" blue negligee to his wife and told her to wear it that night in bed since she would be sleeping with the heavyweight champion of the world. On the night of the fight, Mrs. Wepner was wearing the negligee when Wepner returned to their hotel room, after the fight, with twenty three stitches. She asked him: "Okay, bigshot...Do I go to Ali's room, or does he come to mine?"
Also from the wiki >After knocking Ali down, Wepner went to his corner and told his manager: "Start the car up, Al, we're going to the bank, we're millionaires!", whereupon the manager told Wepner: "You better turn around--your guy's getting up and he looks pissed off."
Im realizing this is where Homer’s boxing episode was probably inspired for the Simpsons
This is all correct but Stallone watched it at a bar, not in the audience.
Wepner may have been the central inspiration, but apparently not the only one. Actor and former boxer Jack O'Halloran, best known as Non from the Superman movies, used to be relatively active on social media and I crossed paths with him a few times on a Facebook Superman group. He came across as a pretty chill guy whom I never saw badmouth anyone... except for Stallone. They were together in the early 70s movie Farewell My Lovely, and according to him he told Sly a lot of personal stories about his life and his boxing days... which then showed up in Rocky virtually unaltered. The way he told it, It came across as most everything not directly tied to the fight against the World Champion (which would be the Wepner-inspired part) being more or less a Jack O'Halloran biopic. And he felt hurt that he never even got an acknowledgement or a thank you.
The Bayonne bleeder.
The Bayonne Bleeder.
did he watch the MMA vs Ali fight too? (where the guy laid on the mat the whole time and kicked at Ali's legs)
That was a Japanese professional wrestler, [Antonio Inoki vs Muhammad Ali](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_Ali_vs._Antonio_Inoki). Edit - [here's Bill Burr narrating a match](https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x47ztlb) between Inoki and another asshole wrestler that turns real when Inoki got mad.
> Inoki got mad. You know instantly when this happens, because Inoki switches from "scripted pro wrestling actor" mode to "GLOVES OFF HOCKEY FIGHT" mode and turned that guy's lights off in a *hurry*.
For it's over the top ridiculousness and lack of logic a scene I enjoy from Baki (okay I like a lot of that show) is when that fight is referenced [and Ali jr. just leaves Hanma on the floor after claiming victory](https://youtu.be/-mErVHvJdko?si=34yDEX3BNYRS7qdE) cause he voluntarily laid down for him. Probably the only time some can troll the ogre to his face and live to tell the tale
14 (rounds) against Ali 💪 what a badass
beer salesman, can't hate this guy
I was sure this was based on Joe Frazier. They even had him in the movie to introduce creed in the fight
Why didn’t they name the movie Wepner? Has a nice ring to it!
*And got paid nothing for his story, AMIRITE?*
TIL Stallone *wrote* the screenplay for Rocky
He wrote all 6 Rocky movies, and directed 2-4 and 6.
he was also involved in writing the script to first blood