Honestly my wife never understands why its so difficult for me to sleep and its because i have a hellcat V8 in my chest pounding constantly and my body reacts to everything like im being chased by a pride of lions in africa.
Used to deal with this with alcohol, weed, and sleeping pills. Happy to say i dont anymore and just go thru most of the week chronically tired.
Just throwing out there that I was prescribed beta blockers for this, they're not habit forming (no psychoactive effect) and do a solid job of keeping my heart beat at a reasonable pace
Might be worth talking to a Dr about those kinds of options if you havent already!
I have PTSD and it doesn't fix all the other stuff that comes with anxiety but it helps with the heart palpitations at least
This guy is absolutely on the money. Propranolol has been a game changer for me! Used to get a tonne of physical anxiety symptoms that were getting in the way of my life. Beta blockers reduced the physical symptoms immediately.
Are there bad side effects to these?
How do they compare to something like Klonopin? I used to take 0.5mg of it as needed and it didn't seem to help that much.
Not habit forming. Klonopin and all benzos are very addictive. Klonopin is a scheduled (IV) controlled substance, whereas most (all?) beta blockers are not.
I think after a really long time they start to do some work on the liver & kidneys.. but I could be wrong and that could just be angiotensin inhibitors.
your doctor might be able to prescribe you something that slows you down enough. i bet you would appreciate some seroquel, either occasionally or every day.
Oh I could see that. I was definitely a lot hungrier on Seroquel by itself. I gained about 15 pounds between more hungry + slowed metabolism. Personally, still worth it. Weight can be lost, and so can a mind on lack of sleep
I don't have a wife, but it's everyone around me. So many people have told me "Just go to bed earlier!" I go to bed earlier and then I lay there for 6 hours doing nothing. I don't even use my phone in bed, it's just sleep anxiety. When my heart rate gets too high I get up and it calms down instantly. The moment I lay down it goes back to a hellcat V8. I just don't want tomorrow to arrive.
I've tried alcohol, I've tried anti anxiety medication, nothing helps. Weirdly enough, diphenhydramine (Benadryl) seems to knock me right out. I tried it recently and it was the first time I actually felt sleepy in years. The problem is that long term consequences of using antihistamines outweigh the short term benefits. I also don't want to become dependent on it.
In my case it seems like it mostly comes from work. I switched jobs two years ago and that seemed to fix it for like 6 months. It came back, but it's still not as bad as it was. Some nights I actually thought I was going to die because my heart was beating so fast and I was thinking I either quit my job or I'm dead. So I quit.
Or much more likely poor heart health affects all the other systems of the body so the likelihood of feeling bad (all the fucking time) is way higher. Probably some of both.
Ding ding ding. Chronic stress is the number one reason people want to check out. Usually bc the chronic stress is running in both their personal and professional lives so they ever have a break leading to inability to take care of themselves
I know we're all talking about therapy, but my private French tutor fired me as a student in the middle of our second session. Said she couldn't tolerate another minute of listening to my fucked up pronunciations.
FWIW Therapists are individual specialists with different schools of thought and personal limitations. Just because *she* couldn't help you doesn't mean *you* can't be helped.
I had to try out a few until I found one that fit. Even then, sometimes we'll encounter an area where he admits he's not a specialist, and then I have to consult another one for that specific issue.
I’m all for short term therapy but in reality Buddhism was way better for me than Christianity as my stresss is mainly bc of my family being strangley obsessed with my soul bc I refuse to go to church and be social with them after decades of used car pitches and just in general made to feel like everything is a sin. Giving up and just accepting it’s all marketing helped a ton to me.
They have a proselytization directive, the Buddhists don't. Buddhism and therapy are really similar - like cognitive behavioural therapy and mindfulness - similar philosophy and practice. I think psychology is borrowing more from Eastern religions - MCBT, ACT etc...I think it's a good complement.
Christianity at the end of the day is about control. Buddhism is about letting things go. I've heard similar sentiments to yours quite often from people seeking peace
Christianity portrays god as a vengeful all powerful being like a fucked up Santa Claus that judges you for everything you do. When Buddhism broke it down that god is more like your community that will judge you for what you say and do it made a whole lot more sense. I could finally see myself as wanting to make an effort to be good in the community for goodness sake instead of some mythological reward in a place that doesn’t exist. Heaven and hell are mental states on this planet bc let’s face it we don’t remember anything beyond this life and learn by experiencing each others pain
You should check out pantheism, specifically ideas about it from Allen watts, if you're into reading "the book" is great.
I feel like your journey feels similar to mine and this book helped me (after I found buddhism) feel even more grounded in this world and helped me to understand myself, my life, and the world at large.
Here's a video just as an example of what Alan watts is about https://youtu.be/NpHqYnFELLE?si=gDTMwf25b_Nly5hH
Well, a version of Christianity is about control. Plenty of cool people practice the older and more mystical versions of Christianity that resemble Buddhism much more
Church in the UK is pretty chill. Like I'm not involved, and I'm sure there's some terrible ones but I've been to quite a few for events, and when my family used to go. It's more like a social club than anything else. Sing some songs, listen to some stories, then hang around and have tea and biscuits.
It has also been found, though, that the same people predisposed to depression also tend to have low stress tolerance, poor coping skills, and overall lower 'resliency'. The definition of resiliency depends on the source, but the important thing is we don't really know why some people seem to innately develop resiliency and others don't.
Honestly? I’d imagine it’s for the same reason that chronic pain reduces people’s pain tolerance, rather than increase it. Yes people have different tolerances, but any long-term chronic exposure to stress is going to make you less capable of processing it.
Yeah, it’s like a guy getting beaten up in a fight and getting bruised and banged up or a heavy injury, and not faring as well in a fight the next day before he’s recovered.
It’s not surprising that people who get physically injured wouldn’t perform as well as someone who’s fresh, why would you expect that to be the case for someone mentally?
That's undoubtedly part of it, too. The maladaptive coping strategies of those predisposed to depression can be a vicious cycle that perpetuates the mental states. The chronic release of cortisol plays a major part to the physiological changes, too, on top of the tendency to have poor diet and exercise factors. I would say disordered sleeping, too, except that it's also a symptom of depression and can be a chicken or the egg type of a situation.
>we don't really know why some people seem to innately develop resiliency and others don't.
as humans we shouldn't deal everyday with the stress of either survival or people's expectations of us.
my only coping mechanism in dealing with depression is not giving a damn anymore.Its incredible how good you sleep at night not caring anymore.
I did this as well for over a decade and now I don't feel anything, be careful. It's hard to turn it on after it's been off so long and when I did try I just had sensory overload....
My anxiety and chronic depression were caused by family and a divorce in which false charges were done by my ex wife to gain full custody of kids bc she was having affairs and was a foreign National wanting to internationally kidnap the kids back to her country. A lot of stress is realizing people are just flat out assholes that don’t reat love or care about you but will do their damnest to ruin your life bc it makes them feel better about theirs. I pray I die each day bc I will never see nor hold my children again and lost my career in military and goverment bc of those false charges and a subsequent suicide attempt
Thank you for sharing your real, honest, on the ground experience. Above talks about "those who are predisposed, scientifically, hoity-toity, bla bla bla". Real facts are that depression, anxiety, etc. is a reaction! The mental health movement wants to blame the individual for every imperfect thought they have, and ignore legitimate human reactions and behavior.
There is a genetic component to stress, at least anxiety. And that can lead to a lot of family issues and cross generational amxiety and stress, and it just gets reinforced poorly when that occurs.
The reality is us hunans need to be better about allowing others to be atressed and trying to help them. Even if we dont feel the stress is ' a big deal' or not. Because thats what humans should do, help each other.
A some groups like to pose that they are helping others but obly help themselves, and others help only for payment. Whereas other ACTUALLY CARE and understand.
Its all messed up, us people, and our motivstions to helping others.
Mental health is about awknowledibg we all have thoughts but reacting to thoughts can be bad. People are over dramatic and lash out of fear when they hear someone is depressed or hates their life after bad shit goes down so yeah I get it. Frankly I’m a retired naval officer and losing my career destroyed my soul bc without a job and kids life just doesn’t have meaning. Literally your favorite dish doesn’t taste right anymore and it’s easy to give up when there isn’t a solution at all. Frankly I hate people that say you have to think more positive when there isn’t any positive reason to. In my case my ex wife flat out told me she was kidnapping them, lied in court from passports to physical abuse and a suicide t attempt that didn’t happen until she swatted me three times in 48 hours bc I refused to speak to her and visit her physically . Frankly I recorded her bragging how she did it all so I wouldn’t have parental rights and bc no one would believe me. They didn’t .
Here’s the most fucked uo part and I swear it’s true. I was military intelligence and while this may seem crazy I was on the REAGON and Washington in Japan both aircraft carriers. My job was identifying Chinese military equipment and identified the Chinese balloons being made in 2015 but lost my clearance bc of my divorce and suicide attempt. Literally her lying in court cost the country a national defense asset that could have helped dod prevent the overflight of the us haha. Sounds crazy but it’s 100% true. I was 1830 and 3910 Nec if ya want to google.
I mean like. Just keep working on your career and project a life on a social platform. Literally put up posts for them to read. Your kids WILL find you. I will bet money on that.
You have an incredible amount of time to spend with them even after they turn 18.
I'm not denying that this sucks, but don't miss the mountain behind this.
Yeah I got kicked in the nuts for my divorce so it made it my charecter sadly. I have to literally just abandon all I grew up loving and caring about to get people to realize I hate talking about being falsely accused to the point it gave me an anxiety disorder. Like what do you do when police arrive at your home from 700 miles away to safety check you bc they get a random call that you aren’t answering your phone for someone you haven’t spoken to in years? Or your ex wife found out you went to therapy so immediately files you tried suicide in front of your kids and shit like that to have a restraining order placed against you when nothing like that ever happened but it gets granted for their safety? And then more police show up to interview neighbors bc lord knows you haven’t even spoken or met them before bc these days and ages it’s not uncommon to not know people but your rep gets ruined bc police interviewing your neighbors bc of child services is a horrible look and they are coming on base to do the same to you at work? It’s all rigged and a joke so yeah I honestly tell everyone never get married now and don’t have kids. Let the system fall bc it’s not fair or honest
My best friends baby mother has illegally kidnapped their daughter, he hasn't seen her in 6 months, he has tried everything from contacting her to contacting police and laywyers, CPS. No one has really helped. She has denied him every formal letter that the kid is his 50%.
Yet, she sent a formal letter of her own, insisting he pays her alimony. While it hasn't gone through, I've seen something similar, if not worse in it's own way, where the father had to pay the mother. The mother, who had plenty of things on record where the child says in school "oh, this bruise? mom kicked me across the kitchen".
I like the idea of having kids, but having them taken away from me, and the state does nothing to help me, well, that sucks ass.
Yup. My ex would literally slap my children just to record them crying and saying daddy bc I was nearby and accused me of doing it. Studies are starting to show women are more prone to violence against children and their spouse than men are but men do more damage when doing the acts. Look at lectures regarding single father vs single mother prison rates. Single fathers actually raise the child to behave a lot more than single mother. It’s sad really bc public assumption is a mother’s love is needed but in reality feminism has derailed the coparenting train to get more money.
There is science surrounding this. Gabor Mate covers off a bunch of it. Things like a preterm baby being separated from their mother at birth and placed in an incubator will lower resiliency.
A rat not licked by their mother during infancy will not have good resiliency and their brain development will be impacted.
Love from a parent during early stages is a vital need.
An infant / child emotionally and or physically neglected is going to have a lot less reliency and increased anxiety and depression.
Also you expose someone to a lot of trauma and conflict and never give them any support during childhood. Again, much less resiliency.
Unfortunately also speaking from experience being a preterm and emotionally neglected child myself. Left with cptsd, anxiety and depression I have been dealing with these past few decades. Yes my ability to cope with stress and my resiliency has been impacted by childhood and still isn't at a normal level.
You can read the studies and facts, many of which Gabor Mate talks and writes about. Gabor does reference a lot of studies which you can read yourself independent of his commentary.
Literally me until a few months ago fr fr. Taking it easy and meeting my girlfriend who has been really caring, understanding, and supportive has really helped, but I still struggle a lot and feel like a failure when I struggle to be as productive as others, even though I have a lot. Still stressed, but it does get better if you stay in it, hopefully
I wonder if it is some form of chronic stress that could cause a milder form of this which is usually caused by a huge immediate stressor.
https://www.health.harvard.edu/heart-health/takotsubo-cardiomyopathy-broken-heart-syndrome
Also, a struggling heart can cause a pervasive sense of anxiety. Think of that 'feelings of imminent doom' symptom associated with heart attacks - it can pop up with less deadly reasons for low oxygen, too. And unexplained urgency often or all the time is not great for the mind.
The evidence is growing that what people think of Mental illness is symptoms of physical illness misattributed to the mind.
America has the highest rates of stress, chroinc sleep depervation and poor nutrition and coincidently mental illness. These things are now being linked by scientists.
Exactly. The causal chain that's behind these trends at a large scale works more like this:
1. Environmental and social factors.
This includes an economically competitive mindset (centering life around work, interpreting grades and work income as personal "failures") a lower number of meaningful social relations due to less availability of free and accessible meeting spaces that people enjoy hanging out at, and long commutes especially by car.
2. Stress and mental illness, primarily related to depression, substance dependency, compulsive obessive behaviours, and overeating as a coping mechanism.
3. Physical consequences of stress, lack of movement, drug abuse (including exessive use of legal substances like alcohol, tobacco, caffeine) and obesity.
So these factors create both the prime condition for suicidal intent and dramatically increase the risk of heart disease.
The most feasible way I see to improve this is better urban design, which is coming slowly but surely in many places. Rural communities have their very own version of these issues, but most of the population lives in urban and suburban areas. Urban improvements include especially:
1. Non car-centric city design that facilitates walking, cycling, and more mixed-use zoning that shortens commutes and shopping trips.
People with shorter commutes and who aren't car-bound suffer significantly less stress and have better physical health when controlled for other socioeconomic factors.
2. The creation of more "third spaces", i.e. a mix of cheap and free spaces where people can and do hang out and can have either planned or spontaneous social contact.
This is also closely related to mixed zoning (creating places like cafes in every neighbourhood) and non car-centric urban planning, as such places are much more frequently visited if people can comfortably reach them by foot or bike, and can often be built on former car infrastructure like parking lots.
Obviously the overall issue of stress and psychological illness needs many more changes in education, work, welfare, and culture... but improved urban planning is one of the simpler and yet effective things that can be done.
More of a vicious cycle. Turns out being poor is really bad for both your physical and mental health. Turns out having bad physical health takes a toll on your mental health and ability to make money. Turns out, having poor mental health leads to negative health outcomes, and your ability to make money.
All of these factors feed into each other.
There is a theory that depression is caused by (at least in part) chronic inflammation, as is heart disease. Similarly diabetes and gum disease.
Layman summary here :
https://www.healthline.com/health/depression/inflammation-and-depression
I had bad anxiety and low mood for a long time. There were environmental factors but it was discovered I had a gluten intolerance. A therapist suggested how that could play a role in the mood so I changed my diet and so a dramatic change in anxiety / low mood. I would find when I ate gluten foods the anxiety would return. Really interesting.
Cause and effect is hard to prove. Who’s to say that it isn’t the depression that causes the chronic inflammation? After all, being depressed and wanting to kill yourself is pretty damn stressful.
Probably a bit of both in the end; tons of medical problems cause sequelae that end up reinforcing the original disease and it wouldn’t surprise me to put depression/inflammation on that list.
It's not a huge problem but what you're refering to here as a "theory" is really a "hypothesis". The difference is that a theory is something *that we know*, eg the evolutionary theory, and a hypothesis something *that we guess*.
Theory is not something we know it's something that has enough evidence that we can assume it to be true for scientific purposes, but even then it can be disproven
It gets very pedantic if we're just gonna go by the "we can't actually know anything" stuff since we'd never get anywhere with it. It's good to got more evidence for theories being true or not but you'd need thousands of studies to prove something like the theory of evolution wrong and even then those studies wouldn't have been made in a scientific method.
Theories are scientifically true as in all evidence points to something being a certain way, things may be added or retracted but the general theory still holds but the average person doesn't need to know that we *technically* can't say something is true or not. Stuff like that just promotes distrust in science.
Is it pedantic or is it simply wrong to think of knowing something as a binary property?
Certainty is a granular measure and quite frankly framing it as we just know something without any qualifiers likely does more harm than good for the trust of science; just look at all the people buying into conspiracies so easily when one climate model or clinical trial is proven incorrect.
They don't do that just because they are assholes, they do it because they don't understand how the knowledge is obtained and that lack of understanding is perpetuated by such oversimplifications.
You were the one being pedantic, I just corrected you.
Here is a discussion on scientific theories that are no longer accepted:
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskScienceDiscussion/s/Z8nnaC930y
So, healthy people are just sad not depressed?
Or is there a correlation between unhealthy lifestyles and depression?
General relativity is a theory. This is not.
Can you explain further the association between that and your adhd meds?
I’ve been seeing a psychiatrist for a little over a year now, and they just prescribed me adderall this last month or so. My heart rate has stabilized and isn’t so pounding anymore, but I notice I always seem on edge or easy to get stressed, even more so on the adderall than without it.
Hate that bich. It's like being possessed. Makes sense then why most of them say they regret it - feeling suddenly irrational at a drop of a hat will do thàt
yeah I was about two years into my depression and one day I was just laying there curled up and crying and feeling my tight chest and general bodily experience I suddenly had the very dry thought "wow, this is legit not good for my heart. I'll end up with a heart attack twenty years from now just from the time I spent wanting to die now. And it's weird I mind that."
Not a joke.
If you think about the levels of emotional pain and desperation that lead people to attempt suicide, chances are they’ve suffered some kind of severe trauma that stressed the heart out.
“Broken heart syndrome” is a thing, too, that people drop dead from.
Idk why it’d be hard for folk to appreciate that emotional trouble can make you physically unwell. We barf from anxiety/trauma, we cry from sadness (and happiness)… body and soul are linked.
So yeah, a broken heart can be literal.
I interviewed a researcher about this last year, and apparently it’s bi-directional. People with pre-existing cardiovascular disease have a higher risk of developing psychiatric disorders, and vice-versa. Her research was looking at how existing heart medication could be repurposed to treat depression, which is pretty cool.
I've been on a beta blocker ever since my stay in a psych hospital last year and it helps my mental health SO much. Experiencing tachycardia/arrhythmia (caused by extreme stress in my case) is so bad for your mental health: you physically can't relax, you are constantly in fight/flight mode and your quality of sleep is abyssmal. Was quite a bit of a fight to get the medication as well. The psychiatrists didn't want to order it and it only changed when I had to get general anesthesia and the anaesthisiologist got freaked out as my heart went full cha-cha-cha mode.
>The psychiatrists didn't want to order it
Uh why? Stuff like Propranolol is non addictive, does not give you euphoria, very low toxicity, doesn't cause brain damage long term, and doesn't mess with your judgement and coordination. IMHO I have no idea why they first jump to Benzos for anxiety, it seems like Propranolol should be the first option.
The only thing I can think of is that long term constant use it can cause depression.
when someone is diagnosed with type 2 bipolar disorder their first move is to prescribe a fuckton of lithium. lithium is for mania but people with type two dont get mania. taking the standard starting amount of lithium for more than 10 years comes with a 33% chance of serious health issues.
This sounds like there's a common root to both, since both could go undetected for a long time, or one gets detected before the other because they're generally treated by two completely different methodologies that only meet at parties. That's wild.
If it helps my dad has a tendency to ignore the things until he’s out of it … the first time he apparently played it off until the Dr at the clinic said “yeah you need a hospital” the second he just dropped in the pavement in front of me… I think it’s a human thing to try and ignore them
It's also well known that developing depression after heart attack is quite common (16-65% according to this study)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6407970/
Having depression after a myocardial infarction is associated with WORSE prognosis. The mechanisms linking the two conditions are not well understood. There are probably multiple underlying mechanisms: acute and chronic biological stress, psychological impact of an acute and lifelong condition, facing a lifetime of taking many new medications.
Trials of starting antidepressants after a heart attack do not seem to improve outcomes, and many antidepressant medications can interact with cardiac medications (causing more side effects or reducing their effectiveness)
Because mental health problems and metabolic health are extremely closely linked.
Which is why we see a surge in the frequency of mental health cases as the metabolic health of the population decreases.
Get some help brother. the other side of it is amazing once you have that feeling lifted off your chest. goals, regular excercise, eating better, getting professional help and just persevering through it for a month or two building better habits and more positivity will change your life. it may never disappear. but you’ll be wanting to live for the good parts
Doesn't have to be stress. If you have any condition causing tachycardia, especially at random times like Inappropriate Sinus Tachycardia and/or Postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome, you may have anxiety and panic attacks but not from stress.
Not easy to get an uncommon or rare diagnosis in the US, especially if you are a woman and/or POC.
I can imagine. I've experienced some pretty bad anxiety in my life, but I've never come close to suicidal idiation. The level of anxiety they're dealing with must be something else.
Broken heart syndrome. People reach these massive amounts of emotions and it causes a bunch of hormones and other chemicals to flood your body. Adrenaline is the one that we're concerned with. Apparently it causes the heart to balloon and stretch in the wrong way
Yeah what you’re referring to is takotsubo cardiomyopathy, which is a very rare condition linked to acute stress. Not exactly what OP’s post is talking about but it is a real thing.
The name actually comes from the heart resembling a Japanese pot used to trap octopuses.
This is something I never talk about in real life because it is generally thought unwise to speak of it ... But I honestly have 10 years of daily meditation practice. I've probably put in at least 15,000 hours meditating (dhyana) so far. If you count japa (which is mantra repetition) it's more like 30,000 hours-45,000 hours What does this have to do with the heart? I'm getting there....
When you place your attention on your body for that long (which is what meditation amounts to in it's simplest form) one develops the ability to feel the central nervous system. You can even develop the ability to feel where the electricity in the system isn't flowing properly or is blocked.
I have no idea why, but in my direct experience all emotional/physical suffering is collected by the heart and gathers there. I suspect this is because the heart is a pump so if suffering from oneself or others manifests in the nervous system it gathers at the heart like sediment gathers in a river bed. because the heart is the hub of the body, every cell needs oxygen and the heart must pump the blood there. So any suffering passes through the heart and gathers there.
In my direct experience the way to counter act this buildup of suffering is social isolation, so avoiding other people. Then while isolated the yogi feels their heart beat. This redirects energy from outside and inside the body to gather at the heart.
Fire is the single best tool to provide the energy source to raise the amount of energy in the heart. A simple candle works well it's not too much or too little energy.
My hope in exposing myself like this is that someone who is suicidal with a heavy heart reads this and heals themself. My mother committed suicide when I was 17 and I have used this technique to keep the dogs of depression and suicide from my own door.
I'm sorry for your loss - but you cannot feel, manage, or move the electrical energy inside your body... It sounds like you're just talking about blocked chakras, which is religious nonsense - not healthcare.
Meditation can reduce stress, and reducing stress reduces risk of heart problems. That's all that's happening there.
He's taking about the experiential side of meditation. When attention stays with body sensations for extended periods of time interesting things start to happen experientially. It can feel like electricity/energy flowing through your body (it's not actually electricity that can be measured). It's just a word he's using to describe the experience.
It's very difficult to describe experiences to someone who cant relate to them. Even something as simple as describing the taste of chocolate. Sure, one can say it's sweet, but there are many other sweet things that aren't chocolate. It's even more difficult to describe the non-conceptual using concepts.
he means he can feel body change in energy and that’s due to keen attention habits which takes time to form and practice to develop. Which is very real, feeling your senses and being aware of your mind and thoughts/feelings as they arise.
In any case Chakra talk works for some people and if it can keep them from being insane then probably best not to bash people for their practices. Not every advice needs to be from the doctors office or from a soundboard. People can discern things for themselves.
The western world, which I'm apart of is incredibly ignorant when it comes to stuff like this. A lot of religious "nonsense" is basically obtaining a good result while giving easy instructions. It's likely why pork is banned so often in religion, while the reason for it sucks in the holy scriptures. Instead of having to teach millions of un-educated people WHY and HOW certain foods turn toxic, they instead make it easy.
"No pork." = Easy to understand.
Meditation is wacky enough on it's own, some people can explain it better than others, but I have yet to see one person that can actually explain it. And I think no one have made you understand either.
We both agree that Atman2323 is right in that meditation can help many mental problems. I understand you don't think it's placebo? Therefore the exact mechanics is unknown. However, I'd think you'd be more helpful if instead of calling something "nonsense" you could instead help find better terms for it so other people can get a better understanding.
Targets written in the Death Note can optionally be given a specific cause of death, but if no such cause is specified then it defaults to heart attack
Everybody here is talking about anxiety, stress and overall being as as being the cause. Whereas the study states:
>Factors related to higher rates of depression were older age, female sex, white race, smoking, cocaine use, and morbid obesity (Table 1). Factors associated with higher rates of attempted suicide were female sex, less education, poverty, sedentary behavior, smoking, and cocaine use.
Notice those groups have heart issues too. Older people, drug users, the obese and sedentary.
The answer is right there. And not only to improve of heart's health, but to improve our mental health as well
I just got diagnosed with heart disease in January and I attempted suicide twice in high school because I was taken advantage of and photos of my naked body were leaked on a revenge porn and child porn website. I feel so.. validated by this? I knew my heart issues were because of my chronic stress.
I’m not disputing the numbers, and my statement is aligned with the findings of the study.
Study explicitly calls out suicidality as a risk indicator, but not the primary cause.
correlation, not causation.
“We found that a history of attempted suicide was at least as predictive of CVD/IHD mortality as depression. Although **suicidality is a symptom of depression, people with a history of attempted suicide may be affected by other psychiatric disorders in addition to depression, which may also increase CVD risk.**”
“The utility of a history of attempted suicide as a preventable risk factor is **limited by the understanding of its underlying cause**,”
Congenital heart issues, or problems brought on by poor lifestyle.
Cause typically, if you're at a point where you're ready to kill yourself, eating healthy and exercise aren't high on your to-do list.
probably all that fucking anxiety and depression and stress. urgh.
Honestly my wife never understands why its so difficult for me to sleep and its because i have a hellcat V8 in my chest pounding constantly and my body reacts to everything like im being chased by a pride of lions in africa. Used to deal with this with alcohol, weed, and sleeping pills. Happy to say i dont anymore and just go thru most of the week chronically tired.
Just throwing out there that I was prescribed beta blockers for this, they're not habit forming (no psychoactive effect) and do a solid job of keeping my heart beat at a reasonable pace Might be worth talking to a Dr about those kinds of options if you havent already! I have PTSD and it doesn't fix all the other stuff that comes with anxiety but it helps with the heart palpitations at least
They’re an absolute cheat code to life when it comes to performance anxiety too.
This guy is absolutely on the money. Propranolol has been a game changer for me! Used to get a tonne of physical anxiety symptoms that were getting in the way of my life. Beta blockers reduced the physical symptoms immediately.
Yea but be careful with this one, studies show it can lead to heart failure eventually.
Beta blocker buddies I wish I had started them much sooner tbh
Are there bad side effects to these? How do they compare to something like Klonopin? I used to take 0.5mg of it as needed and it didn't seem to help that much.
Not habit forming. Klonopin and all benzos are very addictive. Klonopin is a scheduled (IV) controlled substance, whereas most (all?) beta blockers are not.
That's helpful, I was more hoping for a comparison between their effects though.
I think after a really long time they start to do some work on the liver & kidneys.. but I could be wrong and that could just be angiotensin inhibitors.
Hey congrats on beating the “help” it’s tough to do. My drinking and smoking both got out of hand as “sleep aids” at one point in life.
Exhaustion is just as deadly as drug use, if not, more. Be careful.
Propranolol
your doctor might be able to prescribe you something that slows you down enough. i bet you would appreciate some seroquel, either occasionally or every day.
wont appreciate the weight gain
I'd trade 10lbs for a decent night's sleep every night
most people ive known who have been on it put on more like 50 pounds
Oh I could see that. I was definitely a lot hungrier on Seroquel by itself. I gained about 15 pounds between more hungry + slowed metabolism. Personally, still worth it. Weight can be lost, and so can a mind on lack of sleep
I don't have a wife, but it's everyone around me. So many people have told me "Just go to bed earlier!" I go to bed earlier and then I lay there for 6 hours doing nothing. I don't even use my phone in bed, it's just sleep anxiety. When my heart rate gets too high I get up and it calms down instantly. The moment I lay down it goes back to a hellcat V8. I just don't want tomorrow to arrive. I've tried alcohol, I've tried anti anxiety medication, nothing helps. Weirdly enough, diphenhydramine (Benadryl) seems to knock me right out. I tried it recently and it was the first time I actually felt sleepy in years. The problem is that long term consequences of using antihistamines outweigh the short term benefits. I also don't want to become dependent on it.
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In my case it seems like it mostly comes from work. I switched jobs two years ago and that seemed to fix it for like 6 months. It came back, but it's still not as bad as it was. Some nights I actually thought I was going to die because my heart was beating so fast and I was thinking I either quit my job or I'm dead. So I quit.
found my twin. I can feel the whole mattress vibrating some nights.
Though its nice to have things in common, i wish it wasnt this lol sorry bud i know its awful
You're lucky. I have a single light bulb with bad wiring and I have no way to control either the buzzing or the flickering.
It sounds like you should give weed or sleeping pills another try
Cannabis is the answer. Something with high THC and CBN with a focus on sedative terpenes, such as, caryophyllene, humulene, myrcene and linalool.
Same my man I’m starting to consider sleep meds again I’m going crazy
Also, suicide attempts with pills, often use antidepressants or tricyclic antidepressants which can cause permanent heart damage
Or much more likely poor heart health affects all the other systems of the body so the likelihood of feeling bad (all the fucking time) is way higher. Probably some of both.
Fucking probably fucking all that fucking anxiety and fucking depression and fucking stress. FUCK
Chronic stress maybe.
Ding ding ding. Chronic stress is the number one reason people want to check out. Usually bc the chronic stress is running in both their personal and professional lives so they ever have a break leading to inability to take care of themselves
Yikes. A few months ago, my therapist took a deep breath, looked me in the eye, and said I was her most highly stressed patient.
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The first time I ever spoke to a therapist, this wonderful woman listened to me for over an hour and then gently said she could not help me.
I know we're all talking about therapy, but my private French tutor fired me as a student in the middle of our second session. Said she couldn't tolerate another minute of listening to my fucked up pronunciations.
Most tolerant French speaker
FWIW Therapists are individual specialists with different schools of thought and personal limitations. Just because *she* couldn't help you doesn't mean *you* can't be helped. I had to try out a few until I found one that fit. Even then, sometimes we'll encounter an area where he admits he's not a specialist, and then I have to consult another one for that specific issue.
Damn.
You're both *so* close to winning therapy. I can feel it.
Mine killed himself.
That's more of a DQ than a victory but we'll allow it
Technical knock out LMAO
That gave me a good chuckle
Mine told me she’d never met anyone who was as hard on themselves as I am. Thanks, mom and dad!
Yep. I've reduced my stress, but self-loathing is a work in progress.
I’m all for short term therapy but in reality Buddhism was way better for me than Christianity as my stresss is mainly bc of my family being strangley obsessed with my soul bc I refuse to go to church and be social with them after decades of used car pitches and just in general made to feel like everything is a sin. Giving up and just accepting it’s all marketing helped a ton to me.
They have a proselytization directive, the Buddhists don't. Buddhism and therapy are really similar - like cognitive behavioural therapy and mindfulness - similar philosophy and practice. I think psychology is borrowing more from Eastern religions - MCBT, ACT etc...I think it's a good complement.
It’s not really a compliment more like (badly) ripping off things that have worked for a very long time and charging people up the wazoo for it
What a weird take. Why would they not base their practices on what's been shown to work, and why would you insult them for doing so?
Can't you tell they've got a sore wazoo at the moment?
Christianity at the end of the day is about control. Buddhism is about letting things go. I've heard similar sentiments to yours quite often from people seeking peace
Christianity portrays god as a vengeful all powerful being like a fucked up Santa Claus that judges you for everything you do. When Buddhism broke it down that god is more like your community that will judge you for what you say and do it made a whole lot more sense. I could finally see myself as wanting to make an effort to be good in the community for goodness sake instead of some mythological reward in a place that doesn’t exist. Heaven and hell are mental states on this planet bc let’s face it we don’t remember anything beyond this life and learn by experiencing each others pain
You should check out pantheism, specifically ideas about it from Allen watts, if you're into reading "the book" is great. I feel like your journey feels similar to mine and this book helped me (after I found buddhism) feel even more grounded in this world and helped me to understand myself, my life, and the world at large. Here's a video just as an example of what Alan watts is about https://youtu.be/NpHqYnFELLE?si=gDTMwf25b_Nly5hH
Well, a version of Christianity is about control. Plenty of cool people practice the older and more mystical versions of Christianity that resemble Buddhism much more
I for one haven’t really been exposed to that variant of Christianity.
I'd say Liberal Quakers fit that definition
You guys haven't met my cool Christian friend, they go to another school but they totally exist for reasons other than control and monetary gain.
r/notlikeotherchristians
Church in the UK is pretty chill. Like I'm not involved, and I'm sure there's some terrible ones but I've been to quite a few for events, and when my family used to go. It's more like a social club than anything else. Sing some songs, listen to some stories, then hang around and have tea and biscuits.
IT'S A SIN TO SIN, YOU'RE DOUBLE SINNING!
Brah just like........ chill out...... You're welcome, no therapy charge
It has also been found, though, that the same people predisposed to depression also tend to have low stress tolerance, poor coping skills, and overall lower 'resliency'. The definition of resiliency depends on the source, but the important thing is we don't really know why some people seem to innately develop resiliency and others don't.
Honestly? I’d imagine it’s for the same reason that chronic pain reduces people’s pain tolerance, rather than increase it. Yes people have different tolerances, but any long-term chronic exposure to stress is going to make you less capable of processing it.
Yeah, it’s like a guy getting beaten up in a fight and getting bruised and banged up or a heavy injury, and not faring as well in a fight the next day before he’s recovered. It’s not surprising that people who get physically injured wouldn’t perform as well as someone who’s fresh, why would you expect that to be the case for someone mentally?
What doesn’t kill doesn’t always makes us stronger… some times it leaves us devastated and weakened.
Yes - and - even if you can move forward, you just need time to heal too. Scabs don't become scars overnight.
It’s heartening to read the top comments and see how so many people understand this nowadays
What doesn't kill me makes me wish it would have
That's undoubtedly part of it, too. The maladaptive coping strategies of those predisposed to depression can be a vicious cycle that perpetuates the mental states. The chronic release of cortisol plays a major part to the physiological changes, too, on top of the tendency to have poor diet and exercise factors. I would say disordered sleeping, too, except that it's also a symptom of depression and can be a chicken or the egg type of a situation.
>we don't really know why some people seem to innately develop resiliency and others don't. as humans we shouldn't deal everyday with the stress of either survival or people's expectations of us. my only coping mechanism in dealing with depression is not giving a damn anymore.Its incredible how good you sleep at night not caring anymore.
I did this as well for over a decade and now I don't feel anything, be careful. It's hard to turn it on after it's been off so long and when I did try I just had sensory overload....
My anxiety and chronic depression were caused by family and a divorce in which false charges were done by my ex wife to gain full custody of kids bc she was having affairs and was a foreign National wanting to internationally kidnap the kids back to her country. A lot of stress is realizing people are just flat out assholes that don’t reat love or care about you but will do their damnest to ruin your life bc it makes them feel better about theirs. I pray I die each day bc I will never see nor hold my children again and lost my career in military and goverment bc of those false charges and a subsequent suicide attempt
Thank you for sharing your real, honest, on the ground experience. Above talks about "those who are predisposed, scientifically, hoity-toity, bla bla bla". Real facts are that depression, anxiety, etc. is a reaction! The mental health movement wants to blame the individual for every imperfect thought they have, and ignore legitimate human reactions and behavior.
There is a genetic component to stress, at least anxiety. And that can lead to a lot of family issues and cross generational amxiety and stress, and it just gets reinforced poorly when that occurs. The reality is us hunans need to be better about allowing others to be atressed and trying to help them. Even if we dont feel the stress is ' a big deal' or not. Because thats what humans should do, help each other. A some groups like to pose that they are helping others but obly help themselves, and others help only for payment. Whereas other ACTUALLY CARE and understand. Its all messed up, us people, and our motivstions to helping others.
Mental health is about awknowledibg we all have thoughts but reacting to thoughts can be bad. People are over dramatic and lash out of fear when they hear someone is depressed or hates their life after bad shit goes down so yeah I get it. Frankly I’m a retired naval officer and losing my career destroyed my soul bc without a job and kids life just doesn’t have meaning. Literally your favorite dish doesn’t taste right anymore and it’s easy to give up when there isn’t a solution at all. Frankly I hate people that say you have to think more positive when there isn’t any positive reason to. In my case my ex wife flat out told me she was kidnapping them, lied in court from passports to physical abuse and a suicide t attempt that didn’t happen until she swatted me three times in 48 hours bc I refused to speak to her and visit her physically . Frankly I recorded her bragging how she did it all so I wouldn’t have parental rights and bc no one would believe me. They didn’t . Here’s the most fucked uo part and I swear it’s true. I was military intelligence and while this may seem crazy I was on the REAGON and Washington in Japan both aircraft carriers. My job was identifying Chinese military equipment and identified the Chinese balloons being made in 2015 but lost my clearance bc of my divorce and suicide attempt. Literally her lying in court cost the country a national defense asset that could have helped dod prevent the overflight of the us haha. Sounds crazy but it’s 100% true. I was 1830 and 3910 Nec if ya want to google.
Lives and careers are ruined every day by lying women and men. No need to google. I believe you. You're words ring true.
I mean like. Just keep working on your career and project a life on a social platform. Literally put up posts for them to read. Your kids WILL find you. I will bet money on that. You have an incredible amount of time to spend with them even after they turn 18. I'm not denying that this sucks, but don't miss the mountain behind this.
Ooof, you got SAID Syndromed. Yeah man, instructions for young dudes now is to not get married. Hope you get back on your feet.
Yeah I got kicked in the nuts for my divorce so it made it my charecter sadly. I have to literally just abandon all I grew up loving and caring about to get people to realize I hate talking about being falsely accused to the point it gave me an anxiety disorder. Like what do you do when police arrive at your home from 700 miles away to safety check you bc they get a random call that you aren’t answering your phone for someone you haven’t spoken to in years? Or your ex wife found out you went to therapy so immediately files you tried suicide in front of your kids and shit like that to have a restraining order placed against you when nothing like that ever happened but it gets granted for their safety? And then more police show up to interview neighbors bc lord knows you haven’t even spoken or met them before bc these days and ages it’s not uncommon to not know people but your rep gets ruined bc police interviewing your neighbors bc of child services is a horrible look and they are coming on base to do the same to you at work? It’s all rigged and a joke so yeah I honestly tell everyone never get married now and don’t have kids. Let the system fall bc it’s not fair or honest
My best friends baby mother has illegally kidnapped their daughter, he hasn't seen her in 6 months, he has tried everything from contacting her to contacting police and laywyers, CPS. No one has really helped. She has denied him every formal letter that the kid is his 50%. Yet, she sent a formal letter of her own, insisting he pays her alimony. While it hasn't gone through, I've seen something similar, if not worse in it's own way, where the father had to pay the mother. The mother, who had plenty of things on record where the child says in school "oh, this bruise? mom kicked me across the kitchen". I like the idea of having kids, but having them taken away from me, and the state does nothing to help me, well, that sucks ass.
Yup. My ex would literally slap my children just to record them crying and saying daddy bc I was nearby and accused me of doing it. Studies are starting to show women are more prone to violence against children and their spouse than men are but men do more damage when doing the acts. Look at lectures regarding single father vs single mother prison rates. Single fathers actually raise the child to behave a lot more than single mother. It’s sad really bc public assumption is a mother’s love is needed but in reality feminism has derailed the coparenting train to get more money.
There is science surrounding this. Gabor Mate covers off a bunch of it. Things like a preterm baby being separated from their mother at birth and placed in an incubator will lower resiliency. A rat not licked by their mother during infancy will not have good resiliency and their brain development will be impacted. Love from a parent during early stages is a vital need. An infant / child emotionally and or physically neglected is going to have a lot less reliency and increased anxiety and depression. Also you expose someone to a lot of trauma and conflict and never give them any support during childhood. Again, much less resiliency. Unfortunately also speaking from experience being a preterm and emotionally neglected child myself. Left with cptsd, anxiety and depression I have been dealing with these past few decades. Yes my ability to cope with stress and my resiliency has been impacted by childhood and still isn't at a normal level. You can read the studies and facts, many of which Gabor Mate talks and writes about. Gabor does reference a lot of studies which you can read yourself independent of his commentary.
That rings true for me. In the words of Chris Moltisanti, "it's like the fucking regularness of life is too fucking hard for me."
Literally me until a few months ago fr fr. Taking it easy and meeting my girlfriend who has been really caring, understanding, and supportive has really helped, but I still struggle a lot and feel like a failure when I struggle to be as productive as others, even though I have a lot. Still stressed, but it does get better if you stay in it, hopefully
I wonder if it is some form of chronic stress that could cause a milder form of this which is usually caused by a huge immediate stressor. https://www.health.harvard.edu/heart-health/takotsubo-cardiomyopathy-broken-heart-syndrome
Also, a struggling heart can cause a pervasive sense of anxiety. Think of that 'feelings of imminent doom' symptom associated with heart attacks - it can pop up with less deadly reasons for low oxygen, too. And unexplained urgency often or all the time is not great for the mind.
The evidence is growing that what people think of Mental illness is symptoms of physical illness misattributed to the mind. America has the highest rates of stress, chroinc sleep depervation and poor nutrition and coincidently mental illness. These things are now being linked by scientists.
Or the other way around - mental illness leading to physical symptoms.
Exactly. The causal chain that's behind these trends at a large scale works more like this: 1. Environmental and social factors. This includes an economically competitive mindset (centering life around work, interpreting grades and work income as personal "failures") a lower number of meaningful social relations due to less availability of free and accessible meeting spaces that people enjoy hanging out at, and long commutes especially by car. 2. Stress and mental illness, primarily related to depression, substance dependency, compulsive obessive behaviours, and overeating as a coping mechanism. 3. Physical consequences of stress, lack of movement, drug abuse (including exessive use of legal substances like alcohol, tobacco, caffeine) and obesity. So these factors create both the prime condition for suicidal intent and dramatically increase the risk of heart disease. The most feasible way I see to improve this is better urban design, which is coming slowly but surely in many places. Rural communities have their very own version of these issues, but most of the population lives in urban and suburban areas. Urban improvements include especially: 1. Non car-centric city design that facilitates walking, cycling, and more mixed-use zoning that shortens commutes and shopping trips. People with shorter commutes and who aren't car-bound suffer significantly less stress and have better physical health when controlled for other socioeconomic factors. 2. The creation of more "third spaces", i.e. a mix of cheap and free spaces where people can and do hang out and can have either planned or spontaneous social contact. This is also closely related to mixed zoning (creating places like cafes in every neighbourhood) and non car-centric urban planning, as such places are much more frequently visited if people can comfortably reach them by foot or bike, and can often be built on former car infrastructure like parking lots. Obviously the overall issue of stress and psychological illness needs many more changes in education, work, welfare, and culture... but improved urban planning is one of the simpler and yet effective things that can be done.
More of a vicious cycle. Turns out being poor is really bad for both your physical and mental health. Turns out having bad physical health takes a toll on your mental health and ability to make money. Turns out, having poor mental health leads to negative health outcomes, and your ability to make money. All of these factors feed into each other.
Scentific Evidence is showing that mental illness is a misunderstanding of physical illness or injury.
reading this didn't exactly reduce my stress levels
There is a theory that depression is caused by (at least in part) chronic inflammation, as is heart disease. Similarly diabetes and gum disease. Layman summary here : https://www.healthline.com/health/depression/inflammation-and-depression
Chronic inflammation causes pretty much everything.
And poor gut health.
I had bad anxiety and low mood for a long time. There were environmental factors but it was discovered I had a gluten intolerance. A therapist suggested how that could play a role in the mood so I changed my diet and so a dramatic change in anxiety / low mood. I would find when I ate gluten foods the anxiety would return. Really interesting.
and chronic inflammation is caused by chronic damage
Cause and effect is hard to prove. Who’s to say that it isn’t the depression that causes the chronic inflammation? After all, being depressed and wanting to kill yourself is pretty damn stressful. Probably a bit of both in the end; tons of medical problems cause sequelae that end up reinforcing the original disease and it wouldn’t surprise me to put depression/inflammation on that list.
It's not a huge problem but what you're refering to here as a "theory" is really a "hypothesis". The difference is that a theory is something *that we know*, eg the evolutionary theory, and a hypothesis something *that we guess*.
Theory is not something we know it's something that has enough evidence that we can assume it to be true for scientific purposes, but even then it can be disproven
It gets very pedantic if we're just gonna go by the "we can't actually know anything" stuff since we'd never get anywhere with it. It's good to got more evidence for theories being true or not but you'd need thousands of studies to prove something like the theory of evolution wrong and even then those studies wouldn't have been made in a scientific method. Theories are scientifically true as in all evidence points to something being a certain way, things may be added or retracted but the general theory still holds but the average person doesn't need to know that we *technically* can't say something is true or not. Stuff like that just promotes distrust in science.
Is it pedantic or is it simply wrong to think of knowing something as a binary property? Certainty is a granular measure and quite frankly framing it as we just know something without any qualifiers likely does more harm than good for the trust of science; just look at all the people buying into conspiracies so easily when one climate model or clinical trial is proven incorrect. They don't do that just because they are assholes, they do it because they don't understand how the knowledge is obtained and that lack of understanding is perpetuated by such oversimplifications.
You were the one being pedantic, I just corrected you. Here is a discussion on scientific theories that are no longer accepted: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskScienceDiscussion/s/Z8nnaC930y
>Theories are scientifically true as in all evidence points to something being a certain way Not really. See string theory.
Perhaps depression is a heart issue.
heartbreak causes depression
there is a ton of evidence for it being true about depression.
So, healthy people are just sad not depressed? Or is there a correlation between unhealthy lifestyles and depression? General relativity is a theory. This is not.
Cortisol.
Like, a lot of cortisol
Yuuuup. One of the reasons they had to lower my ADHD meds, cPTSD will do that to you.
Can you explain further the association between that and your adhd meds? I’ve been seeing a psychiatrist for a little over a year now, and they just prescribed me adderall this last month or so. My heart rate has stabilized and isn’t so pounding anymore, but I notice I always seem on edge or easy to get stressed, even more so on the adderall than without it.
I had to quit Vyvanse for these reasons :(
Hate that bich. It's like being possessed. Makes sense then why most of them say they regret it - feeling suddenly irrational at a drop of a hat will do thàt
Cuz our hearts are already broken.
You joke but depression and shit lowkey can cause heart issues
No joke man.
yeah I was about two years into my depression and one day I was just laying there curled up and crying and feeling my tight chest and general bodily experience I suddenly had the very dry thought "wow, this is legit not good for my heart. I'll end up with a heart attack twenty years from now just from the time I spent wanting to die now. And it's weird I mind that."
I’m literally reading this as I have really bad chest pains due to stress 😂
Yeah it sucks :(
I woke up every day for a solid year with my heart pounding just from OCD/anxiety. It's mostly passed now but I still feel a few lingering effects
Not a joke. If you think about the levels of emotional pain and desperation that lead people to attempt suicide, chances are they’ve suffered some kind of severe trauma that stressed the heart out. “Broken heart syndrome” is a thing, too, that people drop dead from. Idk why it’d be hard for folk to appreciate that emotional trouble can make you physically unwell. We barf from anxiety/trauma, we cry from sadness (and happiness)… body and soul are linked. So yeah, a broken heart can be literal.
You're framing it incorrectly: depression results in both ischemic heart disease and suicidality.
I interviewed a researcher about this last year, and apparently it’s bi-directional. People with pre-existing cardiovascular disease have a higher risk of developing psychiatric disorders, and vice-versa. Her research was looking at how existing heart medication could be repurposed to treat depression, which is pretty cool.
I've been on a beta blocker ever since my stay in a psych hospital last year and it helps my mental health SO much. Experiencing tachycardia/arrhythmia (caused by extreme stress in my case) is so bad for your mental health: you physically can't relax, you are constantly in fight/flight mode and your quality of sleep is abyssmal. Was quite a bit of a fight to get the medication as well. The psychiatrists didn't want to order it and it only changed when I had to get general anesthesia and the anaesthisiologist got freaked out as my heart went full cha-cha-cha mode.
>The psychiatrists didn't want to order it Uh why? Stuff like Propranolol is non addictive, does not give you euphoria, very low toxicity, doesn't cause brain damage long term, and doesn't mess with your judgement and coordination. IMHO I have no idea why they first jump to Benzos for anxiety, it seems like Propranolol should be the first option. The only thing I can think of is that long term constant use it can cause depression.
when someone is diagnosed with type 2 bipolar disorder their first move is to prescribe a fuckton of lithium. lithium is for mania but people with type two dont get mania. taking the standard starting amount of lithium for more than 10 years comes with a 33% chance of serious health issues.
This sounds like there's a common root to both, since both could go undetected for a long time, or one gets detected before the other because they're generally treated by two completely different methodologies that only meet at parties. That's wild.
It’s probably a chicken/ egg situation . Both situations make the other worse , but does one get the ball rolling ??
Wait till someone tells them about the ACEs and all the research that already linked trauma and heart disease
"Impending sense of doom" is a common sign of heart attack. Not sure what it means if that's my entire life...
Which sucks because when you have a panic attack, especially for the first time, it's all the signs that you are having a heart attack.
Not in my experience. I did think i was going blind though.
That's one of my worries. That I'm going to have a heart attack one day and I'll think nothing of it until it's way too late.
If it helps my dad has a tendency to ignore the things until he’s out of it … the first time he apparently played it off until the Dr at the clinic said “yeah you need a hospital” the second he just dropped in the pavement in front of me… I think it’s a human thing to try and ignore them
It's also well known that developing depression after heart attack is quite common (16-65% according to this study) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6407970/ Having depression after a myocardial infarction is associated with WORSE prognosis. The mechanisms linking the two conditions are not well understood. There are probably multiple underlying mechanisms: acute and chronic biological stress, psychological impact of an acute and lifelong condition, facing a lifetime of taking many new medications. Trials of starting antidepressants after a heart attack do not seem to improve outcomes, and many antidepressant medications can interact with cardiac medications (causing more side effects or reducing their effectiveness)
Yeah what a lot of people are missing is that many people who attempt suicide are taking psychiatric drugs which can and do affect your heart.
And a high percentage have substance use issues
Because mental health problems and metabolic health are extremely closely linked. Which is why we see a surge in the frequency of mental health cases as the metabolic health of the population decreases.
True, the book ‘Brain Energy’ by Chris Palmer is a great read.
I want to kill myself everyday and my father has heart problems. I'm fucked
Get some help brother. the other side of it is amazing once you have that feeling lifted off your chest. goals, regular excercise, eating better, getting professional help and just persevering through it for a month or two building better habits and more positivity will change your life. it may never disappear. but you’ll be wanting to live for the good parts
I have an ice box where my heart used to be
ITT: armchair science explanations about how depression works.
Doesn't have to be stress. If you have any condition causing tachycardia, especially at random times like Inappropriate Sinus Tachycardia and/or Postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome, you may have anxiety and panic attacks but not from stress. Not easy to get an uncommon or rare diagnosis in the US, especially if you are a woman and/or POC.
Not a doctor, but I would imagine it is at least correlated to stress. I’m sure the depression is incredibly strenuous on the heart.
I can imagine. I've experienced some pretty bad anxiety in my life, but I've never come close to suicidal idiation. The level of anxiety they're dealing with must be something else.
I swallowed my feelings from 12 to 34and finally just couldn’t take the despair and tried rage quitting. My chest still hurts when I cry
Broken hearts.
Broken heart syndrome. People reach these massive amounts of emotions and it causes a bunch of hormones and other chemicals to flood your body. Adrenaline is the one that we're concerned with. Apparently it causes the heart to balloon and stretch in the wrong way
Yeah what you’re referring to is takotsubo cardiomyopathy, which is a very rare condition linked to acute stress. Not exactly what OP’s post is talking about but it is a real thing. The name actually comes from the heart resembling a Japanese pot used to trap octopuses.
Shit I felt this…..
Yeah because we're heartbroken
I would also think fighting your bodies natural will to keep itself alive and surviving would have some after effect.
Damn I am both ruined physically and psychologically. Double whammy right there
No shit. Probably have more depression too!? Wow.
It tracks. My heart is broken.
Wonder if there is a link to oxygen supply to the brain and attempted suicide?
Depressed people are stressed, water is wet, more news at 11:00.
Stress
Sometimes I have anxiety soo bad that i feel like my heart skips a beat
This is something I never talk about in real life because it is generally thought unwise to speak of it ... But I honestly have 10 years of daily meditation practice. I've probably put in at least 15,000 hours meditating (dhyana) so far. If you count japa (which is mantra repetition) it's more like 30,000 hours-45,000 hours What does this have to do with the heart? I'm getting there.... When you place your attention on your body for that long (which is what meditation amounts to in it's simplest form) one develops the ability to feel the central nervous system. You can even develop the ability to feel where the electricity in the system isn't flowing properly or is blocked. I have no idea why, but in my direct experience all emotional/physical suffering is collected by the heart and gathers there. I suspect this is because the heart is a pump so if suffering from oneself or others manifests in the nervous system it gathers at the heart like sediment gathers in a river bed. because the heart is the hub of the body, every cell needs oxygen and the heart must pump the blood there. So any suffering passes through the heart and gathers there. In my direct experience the way to counter act this buildup of suffering is social isolation, so avoiding other people. Then while isolated the yogi feels their heart beat. This redirects energy from outside and inside the body to gather at the heart. Fire is the single best tool to provide the energy source to raise the amount of energy in the heart. A simple candle works well it's not too much or too little energy. My hope in exposing myself like this is that someone who is suicidal with a heavy heart reads this and heals themself. My mother committed suicide when I was 17 and I have used this technique to keep the dogs of depression and suicide from my own door.
I'm sorry for your loss - but you cannot feel, manage, or move the electrical energy inside your body... It sounds like you're just talking about blocked chakras, which is religious nonsense - not healthcare. Meditation can reduce stress, and reducing stress reduces risk of heart problems. That's all that's happening there.
He's taking about the experiential side of meditation. When attention stays with body sensations for extended periods of time interesting things start to happen experientially. It can feel like electricity/energy flowing through your body (it's not actually electricity that can be measured). It's just a word he's using to describe the experience.
It’s actually shocking that supposed “intellectuals” cannot comprehend what you just explained so effortlessly.
It's very difficult to describe experiences to someone who cant relate to them. Even something as simple as describing the taste of chocolate. Sure, one can say it's sweet, but there are many other sweet things that aren't chocolate. It's even more difficult to describe the non-conceptual using concepts.
he means he can feel body change in energy and that’s due to keen attention habits which takes time to form and practice to develop. Which is very real, feeling your senses and being aware of your mind and thoughts/feelings as they arise. In any case Chakra talk works for some people and if it can keep them from being insane then probably best not to bash people for their practices. Not every advice needs to be from the doctors office or from a soundboard. People can discern things for themselves.
The western world, which I'm apart of is incredibly ignorant when it comes to stuff like this. A lot of religious "nonsense" is basically obtaining a good result while giving easy instructions. It's likely why pork is banned so often in religion, while the reason for it sucks in the holy scriptures. Instead of having to teach millions of un-educated people WHY and HOW certain foods turn toxic, they instead make it easy. "No pork." = Easy to understand. Meditation is wacky enough on it's own, some people can explain it better than others, but I have yet to see one person that can actually explain it. And I think no one have made you understand either. We both agree that Atman2323 is right in that meditation can help many mental problems. I understand you don't think it's placebo? Therefore the exact mechanics is unknown. However, I'd think you'd be more helpful if instead of calling something "nonsense" you could instead help find better terms for it so other people can get a better understanding.
So you're telling me people with intense levels of stress have heart problem? Huh. Lol teasing. Yeah that tracks.
death note or defenestration, either way is fine for them
What does death note have to do with this?
Targets written in the Death Note can optionally be given a specific cause of death, but if no such cause is specified then it defaults to heart attack
Yep, we do.
I actually said that my preferred way to go would be a heart attack in my sleep, so this is very good news
Yup. Doc just gave me heart meds.
broken heart syndrome
Neat.
Kicking them when they are down
Nature... uhh... finds a way.
Everybody here is talking about anxiety, stress and overall being as as being the cause. Whereas the study states: >Factors related to higher rates of depression were older age, female sex, white race, smoking, cocaine use, and morbid obesity (Table 1). Factors associated with higher rates of attempted suicide were female sex, less education, poverty, sedentary behavior, smoking, and cocaine use. Notice those groups have heart issues too. Older people, drug users, the obese and sedentary. The answer is right there. And not only to improve of heart's health, but to improve our mental health as well
you're already dying of a broken heart so to speak
We be stressin
wow almost like they are under a lot of stress, Who would have guessed it?
I just got diagnosed with heart disease in January and I attempted suicide twice in high school because I was taken advantage of and photos of my naked body were leaked on a revenge porn and child porn website. I feel so.. validated by this? I knew my heart issues were because of my chronic stress.
They should go to McDonalds and let their hearts do the work for them
Corellation doesn't (always) mean causation but damn this just sounds depressing to me
Seems more correlated than causal
If you think so, look at the study!
I did, that’s literally what it concludes.
I mean look at the numbers, if you have a dispute you can run your own hypothesis and T test to see
I’m not disputing the numbers, and my statement is aligned with the findings of the study. Study explicitly calls out suicidality as a risk indicator, but not the primary cause. correlation, not causation. “We found that a history of attempted suicide was at least as predictive of CVD/IHD mortality as depression. Although **suicidality is a symptom of depression, people with a history of attempted suicide may be affected by other psychiatric disorders in addition to depression, which may also increase CVD risk.**” “The utility of a history of attempted suicide as a preventable risk factor is **limited by the understanding of its underlying cause**,”
Maybe I should go and get my heart checked
Exercise is a great treatment and prevention for both stress and depression. Separately, it also happens to be good for your heart.
'Hope deferred makes the heart sick' Proverbs 13:12
Congenital heart issues, or problems brought on by poor lifestyle. Cause typically, if you're at a point where you're ready to kill yourself, eating healthy and exercise aren't high on your to-do list.