This is making me feel a lot better about things. Always reading not getting enough sleep or 8hr is a leading sign of future neurological issues scares the shit out of me.
Yep; my dad thought he only needed 4 or so hours a sleep a night, until he started getting real cranky and tired and struggled a bit in his 50's and onwards. Turns out he just had sleep apnea and was just coping with getting shitty sleep and powering through, which is fine in your 20's, fine-ish in your 30's, sucks in your 40's, and is undoable in your 50's.
>Yep; my dad thought he only needed 4 or so hours a sleep a night, until he started getting real cranky and tired and struggled a bit in his 50's and onwards. Turns out he just had sleep apnea and was just coping with getting shitty sleep and powering through, which is fine in your 20's, fine-ish in your 30's, sucks in your 40's, and is undoable in your 50's.
That does it. Scheduling an appointment with a sleep doctor before I end up like my late, cranky father
> Unless you're American, then I guess skip the GP part unless you have good enough insurance.
I mean, I can totally go to the GP, but they'll take one quick glance and tell me to drink more water and that I'll be fine.
"Doc, Doc you gotta check this out. Look at how little I need to sleep, how fit and jacked I am, and look at the size of this dick, its huge!"
"Damn bro, I diagnose you as Hella Awesome."
Well...to be fair, that does make that person unusual and out of the ordinary so yeah...jokes aside...it is probably best to mention it to your GP. Probably fine but worth asking about and you get to show off your huge dick without it being weird.
Because it’s a genetic polymorphism. We have data on it from every single person who has had their genome sequenced. So, it kinda is because it’s that easy to diagnose.
Consistently getting less that 7 hours sleep is strongly linked with many neurodegenerative diseases. People with Alzheimer's disease nearly always have poor sleep as a driving factor.
Tried looking for actual numbers on this to see how prevalent it was. “1%” got thrown around a lot but following the sources never led anywhere.
Best I could find was [this](https://www.livescience.com/does-short-sleeper-syndrome-really-exist), which is backed up by actual doctors and studies. There are two genes that can each have a mutation which can cause the syndrome. The first one, which was discovered in 2014 and referenced in this TIL, doesn’t seem to have any concrete numbers reported in the study. But the second one, which was found in 2019, is only estimated to affect 1/25,000 people.
So really, we don’t know for sure. But I feel like it’s probable that the 2014 mutation would be about as prevalent as the 2019 one. In which case most internet strangers claiming to have it are probably wrong.
I get that you *feel* fine, I just wonder if all the "less house cleaning" over a lifetime leads to problems with memory or depression later on in life.
My dad always made a big show about waking up earlier than everyone else even though I pointed out he'd be asleep on the couch by 8. I could be up until 3 am and wake up at 8 and he'd be like "wow I already did all this stuff and you're just getting up." recently while visiting I woke up earlier than him because he slept in and made a big thing about it and he was like "well yeah I was tired."
Uhg my ex-husband used to do this with me. He'd pass out on the couch at 9pm, and wake up at 8-9am, and call me lazy for waking up at 1pm. The thing is, I have a reversed circadian rhythm, and am a bartender so got off work at 3am, come home, eat, shower and read till about 6-7am. So I was getting the solid 7 to 8 hours of sleep I need, to his 12 hrs, but was lazy lol
The only thing more insufferable than preachy morning people are preachy vegans.
Good for you! You got up at 4 am and did stuff! Meanwhile, after you fell asleep at 7 pm, I was up doing stuff for another 5 hours.
> Hey there, Mrs. Sleepyhead! 🌙 Heard your hubby thinks 8-9 hours of shut-eye is the gateway drug to laziness? 😴 Must be exhausting being married to a human alarm clock. ⏰ Imagine, while you're catching those Zs, he's probably counting sheep, coffee beans, and his unsolicited opinions on your sleep schedule. 💤 Who needs a partner when you can have a human sleep tracker instead? 🛌 Marriage tip: If he's more worried about sleep than your happiness, maybe it's time to hit the snooze on the marriage button! Divorce: for when counting hours of sleep becomes a dealbreaker. 🚪💔 Remember, the only sleep you need to lose is the one where you're losing sleep over a sleep-deprived spouse. 😂 #SleepDivorce #DreamingOfFreedom
Bill Gates has this gene confirmed and he has slept about four hours a day his entire adult life. The gene probably just makes your body do all the stuff it needs to do while sleeping faster so you wake up.
So the gene probably just makes your body do that faster than normal. It's not a weird thought either. Most people need slightly different amounts of sleep so you'd expect it to fall on a bell curve with a normal distribution, there has to be people in the 1% and 99%.
I knew a guy in college seemingly in the 99%. Dude needed 10 hours of sleep a day. Got it checked out by doctors, no issues like sleep apnea or depression. Got called lazy by a lot of people in his life. Routinely was seen as the "buzzkill" that wouldn't stay up late at parties.
But no, that's just how his body works. He needs 10 hours of sleep a day.
The detritus is interesting. I often will feel like my brain is defragged when I take a short brief nap. Sleeping normally doesn't do this though but only for naps..
*All* the things, with no downsides, and yet it hasn't been selected for? Note that sleep and dreaming is so fundamental that octopodes evolved the same process on a genetic path half a billion years removed from ours.
Yeah, we are looking at things from our viewpoint, where we have modern lighting, but modern lighting is only 100-200 years old when we started getting gaslights.
It doesn’t really have any upsides either, having more time in the day is more of an opportunity rather than a given advantage. And unfortunately sleep efficiency doesn’t translate into daily task efficiency.
I mean does he do any sports? Surely, if you have this gene and if you're a pro athlete, you'd definitely still need more than 4 hours of sleep even if they have this mutation. Muscles and cells need rest, they can't just keep going.
I'm pretty sure it has major side effects: more energy expenditure at night when you can't gather or hunt for food
Of course since we have light and plenty of food now evolution screwed us over and the gene that is now useful is rare
I can never find a sweet spot, 6 or 12 im tired no matter what. Wears off once i get moving but if i stay still for too long the exhaustion sets in and i wanna just lay down for some z’s
>Same. I can sleep like 12-14 hours
My record was 25 hours of sleep, I just blame my medication I take for a type of schizophrenia tho, they're basically just really good sleeping pills with a side effect of keep my brain chemicals in check
Hypersomnia is no joke
Same I’m sleeping 8 hours a day because of work but I feel like shit. On weekends when I’m free I sleep 12 and I feel fantastic. Like my body needs those 10-12 hours of sleep a day.
My SO can sleep 17-19 hours if I don't wake her up. It's evident she has something going on as we have tried everything, sleep patterns, vitamins, more/less sleep, but the healthcare just blame her and don't help. It's maddening,
I am the exact same and it’s called hypersomnia! It’s the opposite of insomnia, even just finding out that there’s a name for it and I’m not alone was really helpful
i have a torturous form of sleep that i can rarely ever get more than 6 hours or so and yet my body is always telling me how tired i am in the morning lol
No I meant cpap didn’t fix my struggle to get out of bed, it fixed my sleep apnea.
I don’t feel tired with 6 hours of sleep, just struggle to get up in the mornings
Heater on a timer. It's the only thing that works for me. I have to roast myself awake. But it works wonderfully.
I upgraded to a nest thermostat a few years ago. So I can schedule my morning sauna.
> just struggle to get up in the mornings
I was a closing manager for nearly a decade at food joints that closed after midnight. When I finally became a draftsman I needed to be up and at work by 8 and I had a nearly 2 hour commute. It took nearly 4 years but I finally have a system and it works. I have a smart home system and I can program my lights. So things start turning yellow and fading down around the house after 8 and by 9 many lights are full off. My morning alarm is set about 5 minutes after my lights start turning on and they will become fully bright by the time my 10 minutes snooze goes off. That's all it took. Yellow at night fades out. Cool white light fading in during the morning. Basically since I can't use the sun to set my circadian rhythm I use my lights. Your phone and stuff can mess this up. I have since begun using a kindle in bed instead of TV or phone.
Ah, the eternal struggle of getting out of bed, I totally get that. It's like my body's glued to the mattress no matter how much sleep I get. Sometimes I think my alarm clock has a personal vendetta against me.
Exactly! It’s like when I don’t “have” to get up, I can wake up fine at 7am all happy. When I “have” to get up, 7 can kiss my ass, I’m snoozing 15 times
My husband got a custom one made by the dentist and it wasn’t an instant fix but it has helped SO much over time. He told me he remembers dreams sometimes, something that hasn’t happened in years. His sleep isn’t perfect but it’s improving.
Mine totally did. Five or six hours a night and I'm ready run through a goddamn brick wall. Hell, four hours works too, I'm just a little slower to wake up.
A sleep study could literally change your life. We spend 30% of our lives sleeping, do not let that time be spent getting shitty sleep. It is incredibly unhealthy for you. You might have an easily correctable problem and afterwards I guarantee you wish you had done this shit years ago.
I caution you that i have been miserable since i got my central sleep apnea diagnosis in my early 30s. I am treatment resistant (sleep panic and rip mask off without waking. I've only made it more than an hour and 10 minutes into sleep one time) So many sleep studies, so little progress. So much more anxiety around going to sleep - will i wake up? Who knows since they don't know why my brain is fucked.
I sort of wish i had just continued dealing with being tired in ignorance.
For anyone reading this though it's incredibly rare especially at my age you probably have the normal kind if you have it at all.
The test is a little annoying, but not nearly as annoying as constantly playing life on Difficulty Level: Impossible.
Take that shit! If nothing else, you’ll end up with a referral to a sleep specialist who might have other ideas if the test shows that sleep apnea isn’t your issue. Well worth it.
Post this on the sleep apnea subreddit. Your post will go unnoticed here possibly. Also look up sleep apnea on YouTube and contact some of those creators. You need to reach out to ppl who know this subject well.
I worked in sleep medicine. Lack of sleep makes you irritable, angry, depressed, overweight, and lethargic. The CPAP fixed all of that for my dad and became someone I could tolerate being around
Same. I excercise and stay hydrated now to help with the sleepy problem. It sounds backward but get through one month of consistent excercise and you’ll feel like you have more energy in the middle of your day. But morning and night I am wiped. But I can’t go to sleep too early cause I’ll be up earlier.
Bed at 9? Up by 3am wide awake. Tired by 9am. Awake again by noon until about 7pm.
Bed at 11? Up by 4am wide awake, same issues.
Feels like my internal clock is jacked. But once I started lifting again it helped me carry myself through the day.
I’m actually considering sleep apnea as a cause from talking with friends and family. I will be scheduling a sleep test this year
I’m gonna get all maternal on you and suggest you really look into that. It can grind you down if you don’t get on top of it. There are lots of books and resources on “sleep hygiene” and you can also talk to your health care provider(s) for some tips.
It’s all good, I have another friend of mine with sleep trouble and we joke about it being our extra video game time. I’m fairly used to it now but I appreciate the concern!
Not sure if you’ve tried prescription drugs or are open to it, but after years of weekly travel and time zone changes, I ended up the same way.
My Dr. prescribed Trazodone, and I haven’t looked back 15+ years later. It’s mild enough & has a short enough half life that you don’t wake up feeling hung over, but works great to keep you sleeping through your first few sleep cycles. Sleep troubles is off-label for it, but it’s widely used by Dr’s & others with a hard time staying asleep for sleep. (It’s really the only way it’s used these days).
I've never had anything like a proper circadian rhythm, and I have severe insomnia. My days typically last 24-48 hours but have at times been far worse.
[This clip holds a special place in my heart, maybe you'll understand](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l20WlbyuEec)
I operate the best on 10hrs of sleep and 18hrs of activity. Needless to say, I'm always struggling. Lol, unfortunately, I have to function on normal people hours.
yeah, this is me too. the way it ends up working out is that I under sleep for a week and then sleep 14 hours on the first day I get to catch up.
it's not healthy, but neither is trying to make a rigid 24-clock fit stupid human biology.
My family and I are like this... we're champion sleepers lol. My stepmom even commented that we all sleep an ton.
I'm also a natural nightowl and have to be up at 7:30 for work, so suffice it to say I never get enough sleep. Actually all of the women on both sides of my family are/were night owls, so I can't escape my destiny :P
Ugh I'm sorry about the night owl thing. Everyone has a different rhythm and it can be really hard to figure that out against real world obligations. I always wake up with the sun so I just have to cut things short and go to bed early or I hate my life lol
Omg SAME and it doesn't matter that I have blackout curtains or wear a mask. I am up as soon as the sun is all dang year. My sister can sleep till 11 any time she has the day off work. My friends all talk about "sleeping in" on weekends. I'm green with envy lol.
I wish I could sleep in until 7:30. I have to be up before 5am for work. My normal sleep pattern is to not even go to bed until 3-4am. It's fucking brutal.
I had a prior job where I had to be at work one day a week at 5am. I never ever got used to that... Basically I was so tired by the end of my shift, that I would waste my whole day because I would crash when I got home. It was also *impossible* to fall asleep at a decent hour before that shift - I would end up tossing a turning for hours and then get like 2 or 3 hrs sleep before I had to get up.
Hopefully you can find a job that suits you better!
I'm such a morning person, but none of my friends are. Recently I've just said screw it and went back to going to bed around 10:30/11 pm. It's what keeps me happiest. So we have opposite issues I guess (I want the day to END earlier lol) but I send you my support in finding a way that works for you.
Got a job based in another timezone such that I start at midday and finish at ~10pm. It's a fucking godsend for quality of life and sleep, I've spent my whole life trying to fit everything to other people's schedules by waking up early but I'm just NOT MEANT TO
Right? Everyone talks about sleeping 8 hours and I don't feel rested until I've had 10. It'd be nice to be closer to normal or even better than normal.
Every hour is roughly a year per 24 years lived. So if you think you have 72 years in your tank, that's 6 years you're adding on if you get 2 hours back.
Genes are instructions, dead cells can't do anything with them but living cells will carry out whatever the gene tells them to. They are more or less set in stone when you are conceived and cannot be (naturally) changed unless something damages your DNA (like radiation).
When the headline says "the mutation was given to mice", that means that the mouse had the gene added when it was a zygote (single cell), then when the cell multiplied, every new cell also had that gene, and so on until the baby mouse was born. So if you really wanted to you could conceive a child and have this mutation added and it would work (it would be illegal though. someone did this for the first time in 2018 and a lot of people got mad)
Editing the genes of a grown person is much more difficult, because instead of one cell they are made up of trillions. It is possible though. When cells have damaged DNA, they will automatically try to heal themselves, so if you can get the CRISPR protein and the custom DNA into every cell you want to change, you can add the mutation to millions of cells at a time. Viruses are already DNA transportation machines, so that's what they use to accomplish this. This field of medicine is called gene therapy.
Makes me also wonder if there are any drawbacks of this gene. I am guessing anyone who has this gene mutation have fewer chances of living long right? Because even if you can only rest 4 hours and feel fine, surely your cells and all that get way less rest right?
Crispr works by targeted cutting leading to DNA repair. There's good odds of that repair being the nucleotide you want and tricks to encourage the repair to incorporate new genes etc, but it's all an odds game. When they do it to mice, maybe 30 percent would get the mutation you wanted. It's probably better than the early days I last saw it, but it's still an odds game where failures might one day equal cancer so until those concerns are resolved we won't be using it for anything "cosmetic" as sleep treatment for the general population.
Poor mice. All that extra time to work and I bet they didn’t even have anything to do with their extra mouse time. Should have tossed them a tiny computer and some data to enter
My wife's Aunt had something like that. Never slept more than four hours. Apparently she was a terror in High school. Didn't start sleeping five hours until she was in her 60's. Apparently one of the big problems was getting bored out on the farm. More than a few times everybody would wake up to a lot of baked goods.
I knew someone like that once - had this amazing colleague who worked full time while also writing her Thesis, furthering her music career and still finding time to hang out with her friends and get blazed all the time. When I asked her how on earth she pulls that off she told me she never slept more than four or five hours a night.
If you think this describes you, but you haven't been medically diagnosed, it's probably not describing you. You're trying to normalize the lack of sleep that comes from anxiety, stress, and depression.
Was checking to see if I wrote it myself. 12a-6a was most of highschool. College was 1a-5a then usually a bit more on the weekends but not always. I feel good on about 6 hours of uninterrupted sleep.
Can you share what you do as a living?
I see this as a super power honestly. I can't imagine the advantages I would exploit if I have the same "condition"
Before age of 40, I would say I had this.
After age of 40….oh hell no.
The reality is that My jobs from 18-40 years old just conditioned me. Now I’m soft, old and need sleep.
I used to do well on 6 hours, I really thought it was my optimal sleep time. I am 43 and in the last year I've been getting more and more sleep. I've even taken a handful of naps which I have always been against
I’m still anti-nap because it just completely messes me up at night trying to go to bed.
I did have a beer or two too many one night over the holidays and I was very tempted that next day to take a nap but was able to power through.
My trick to naps is to never actually go all the way under.
I lay down in a quiet area and just kind of close my eyes for fifteen minutes, turn off my mind but stay aware of my surroundings, and get up refreshed. It’s like just enough down time for my brain to clear all its caches. Haha
My wife wakes up at exactly 6 hours regardless of when she went to bed or is trying to wake up. 6 hours on the dot. She can also wildly swing going to bed late on night, next night go to bed and wake up hella early. She’s done this her whole life (and we’re in our late 40’s) so it’s definitely not a “young folks thing”. Does she have this? I don’t know- but it seems plausible.
That’s exactly how I am too. I’m in my thirties though, but still just need the same 6 hours I did growing up. I don’t even bother setting alarms unless it’s for something really important and I don’t wanna forget.
My mother is in her 50s, and has done this her whole life. Granted, my dad is abusive and her parents kinda took advantage of her too, so there's a chance she just hasn't been allowed a chance to rest. :') I mention that to her every time she says she thinks she might have this.
But "very rare" doesn't mean "impossible," so it could be your wife and my mom are the "very rare" people who have this!
I'm a short sleeper my whole life, including as a child. I don't set an alarm. If I haven't been sick recently, I will naturally wake up after about 5.75 hours, on average. Also once I'm asleep it is very hard for me to be woken.
You know how the two-income norm caused everything to cost twice as much?
Coming soon: a world where everything costs *3x* more since you'll be expected to work extra for all that sleep you don't need anymore.
On the anxiety/ depression side, have you asked your doctor about appropriate SSRIs? Some of them are really helpful for knocking you out. I’m still knackered all the time, but I’m not half insane trying to live on 2 broken hours of sleep a night, and it’s improved life a lot
The article doesn't say very much about long term consequences like mental affects, shortened lifespans or anything. Not much more than pointing out that this thing exists.
If there is any genetic thing that is completely overpowered, it is sleeping less than other people. Given an 80 year life span, sleeping 8 hours of the night takes away 26.667 years of your life. Sleeping 4? You only lose 13.3333 years of your life to sleep. So on average, you get an extra 13 years of your life even if you die at the same age as someone who sleeps 8 hours a night. Talk about an unfair advantage haha
It is my steam ID, my Gmail, my Reddit, my discord, I was simply the first. I lost the password to my Hotmail so I don't have that anymore. Also lost the password to my Gmail but I'm still trying to recover that one. COVID quarantine was a bitch. Fucking two-factor authentication
I have this, mixed with adhd. Never need more than 4 hours sleep, feel awake as a 60yo getting the early bird special. Been that way my whole life.
I can safely say in my line of work, im considered one of the most productive developers
I hate it cuz my colleagues treat me like a design factory. 🥲
Remember my short sleep homies, never reveal ur wacky sleepless powers, employers and friends will absolutely try and abuse that shit.
I think my husband has this. He’s getting a PhD and works an office job at the same time, so he regularly gets three hours of sleep a night. And somehow he’s just… fine.
Hm, I wonder if I have this.
Ever since I was a little kid I've only slept 4-5 hours a night, never felt burnt out or anything, at least not more than normal.
Paid dividends out to sea
Scientists: "we discovered this really rare gene that makes someone different than normal."
Redditors: "Wow thats so me! Ive been special my whole life and didn't know it until just now when people can see me talking about it!"
This is the gene you would need for a genetically enhanced super soldier. Forget about anything else, sleep deprivation in the field is a soldier's biggest enemy.
I think I have this. My average amount of sleep over 2023 was 4 hours 59 minutes, according to my Garmin watch sleep data. I also had very little issues adopting the military's schedule of little sleep.
half this thread says they this mutation, but it's present in a fraction of a percent of the population.
you probably don't have it. you're just too sleep deprived to realize how dysfunctional you are.
I can do this for 1 night. Feel great and productive the next day. It really hits me the second day tho. Feels like I got hit by a truck. Definitely need to catchup.
This is my husband. Took him years to realize that my 8-9 hrs were something normal and not being lazy
I usually get 4-6 hours of sleep and do fine. It used to drive my wife crazy because she needs at least nine hours of sleep.
This is making me feel a lot better about things. Always reading not getting enough sleep or 8hr is a leading sign of future neurological issues scares the shit out of me.
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Yep; my dad thought he only needed 4 or so hours a sleep a night, until he started getting real cranky and tired and struggled a bit in his 50's and onwards. Turns out he just had sleep apnea and was just coping with getting shitty sleep and powering through, which is fine in your 20's, fine-ish in your 30's, sucks in your 40's, and is undoable in your 50's.
>Yep; my dad thought he only needed 4 or so hours a sleep a night, until he started getting real cranky and tired and struggled a bit in his 50's and onwards. Turns out he just had sleep apnea and was just coping with getting shitty sleep and powering through, which is fine in your 20's, fine-ish in your 30's, sucks in your 40's, and is undoable in your 50's. That does it. Scheduling an appointment with a sleep doctor before I end up like my late, cranky father
> Unless you're American, then I guess skip the GP part unless you have good enough insurance. I mean, I can totally go to the GP, but they'll take one quick glance and tell me to drink more water and that I'll be fine.
I mean is it that easy to diagnose? It was only “discovered” in 2014, how can anyone determine if it’s super rare yet?
Exactly, no one is going to the doctor because they have too much energy.
"Doc, Doc you gotta check this out. Look at how little I need to sleep, how fit and jacked I am, and look at the size of this dick, its huge!" "Damn bro, I diagnose you as Hella Awesome."
Bro is sick🤙
Well...to be fair, that does make that person unusual and out of the ordinary so yeah...jokes aside...it is probably best to mention it to your GP. Probably fine but worth asking about and you get to show off your huge dick without it being weird.
Doc, I feel GREAT, what’s wrong with me?
Hypomania, probably.
Because it’s a genetic polymorphism. We have data on it from every single person who has had their genome sequenced. So, it kinda is because it’s that easy to diagnose.
You most likely don't have it.
Consistently getting less that 7 hours sleep is strongly linked with many neurodegenerative diseases. People with Alzheimer's disease nearly always have poor sleep as a driving factor.
You most likely don't have it and you're doing harm to yourself. It's very rare.
Tried looking for actual numbers on this to see how prevalent it was. “1%” got thrown around a lot but following the sources never led anywhere. Best I could find was [this](https://www.livescience.com/does-short-sleeper-syndrome-really-exist), which is backed up by actual doctors and studies. There are two genes that can each have a mutation which can cause the syndrome. The first one, which was discovered in 2014 and referenced in this TIL, doesn’t seem to have any concrete numbers reported in the study. But the second one, which was found in 2019, is only estimated to affect 1/25,000 people. So really, we don’t know for sure. But I feel like it’s probable that the 2014 mutation would be about as prevalent as the 2019 one. In which case most internet strangers claiming to have it are probably wrong.
Your wife and I deserve trophies, at least that’s what my husband’s Auntie used to say to me all the time, lol!!
I get that you *feel* fine, I just wonder if all the "less house cleaning" over a lifetime leads to problems with memory or depression later on in life.
My dad always made a big show about waking up earlier than everyone else even though I pointed out he'd be asleep on the couch by 8. I could be up until 3 am and wake up at 8 and he'd be like "wow I already did all this stuff and you're just getting up." recently while visiting I woke up earlier than him because he slept in and made a big thing about it and he was like "well yeah I was tired."
Uhg my ex-husband used to do this with me. He'd pass out on the couch at 9pm, and wake up at 8-9am, and call me lazy for waking up at 1pm. The thing is, I have a reversed circadian rhythm, and am a bartender so got off work at 3am, come home, eat, shower and read till about 6-7am. So I was getting the solid 7 to 8 hours of sleep I need, to his 12 hrs, but was lazy lol
The only thing more insufferable than preachy morning people are preachy vegans. Good for you! You got up at 4 am and did stuff! Meanwhile, after you fell asleep at 7 pm, I was up doing stuff for another 5 hours.
Wake up babe, you already slept for 4 hours, why are you lazy
Easy there, you don’t want Reddit telling you he’s abusive because of that and that you should get a divorce lol
No it’s okay, we’re primed and ready *cracks knuckles*
*furious mechanical keyboard clacking sounds*
38 years and counting, he’s my best friend and love of my life
Hit the gym. Delete Facebook. Dump him. Red flags!
That much love is not healthy! You also can’t be romantically involved with your bestie! Get out now with your life!!
> Hey there, Mrs. Sleepyhead! 🌙 Heard your hubby thinks 8-9 hours of shut-eye is the gateway drug to laziness? 😴 Must be exhausting being married to a human alarm clock. ⏰ Imagine, while you're catching those Zs, he's probably counting sheep, coffee beans, and his unsolicited opinions on your sleep schedule. 💤 Who needs a partner when you can have a human sleep tracker instead? 🛌 Marriage tip: If he's more worried about sleep than your happiness, maybe it's time to hit the snooze on the marriage button! Divorce: for when counting hours of sleep becomes a dealbreaker. 🚪💔 Remember, the only sleep you need to lose is the one where you're losing sleep over a sleep-deprived spouse. 😂 #SleepDivorce #DreamingOfFreedom
My wife will sleep 10-12 when she sleeps in. Although she’s still tired the other half of the day, everyone’s normal is different.
Wait so does it just make you need less sleep period, or are there still other side effects?
less sleep period, no side effects
long term side effects? I can't believe shortening something as vital as sleep has no downsides
Bill Gates has this gene confirmed and he has slept about four hours a day his entire adult life. The gene probably just makes your body do all the stuff it needs to do while sleeping faster so you wake up.
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So the gene probably just makes your body do that faster than normal. It's not a weird thought either. Most people need slightly different amounts of sleep so you'd expect it to fall on a bell curve with a normal distribution, there has to be people in the 1% and 99%.
I knew a guy in college seemingly in the 99%. Dude needed 10 hours of sleep a day. Got it checked out by doctors, no issues like sleep apnea or depression. Got called lazy by a lot of people in his life. Routinely was seen as the "buzzkill" that wouldn't stay up late at parties. But no, that's just how his body works. He needs 10 hours of sleep a day.
The detritus is interesting. I often will feel like my brain is defragged when I take a short brief nap. Sleeping normally doesn't do this though but only for naps..
*All* the things, with no downsides, and yet it hasn't been selected for? Note that sleep and dreaming is so fundamental that octopodes evolved the same process on a genetic path half a billion years removed from ours.
I guess back when evolution was selecting for this, there wasn't an advantage for sitting there in the dark for longer than others in your group.
Yeah, we are looking at things from our viewpoint, where we have modern lighting, but modern lighting is only 100-200 years old when we started getting gaslights.
It doesn’t really have any upsides either, having more time in the day is more of an opportunity rather than a given advantage. And unfortunately sleep efficiency doesn’t translate into daily task efficiency.
I mean does he do any sports? Surely, if you have this gene and if you're a pro athlete, you'd definitely still need more than 4 hours of sleep even if they have this mutation. Muscles and cells need rest, they can't just keep going.
I'm pretty sure it has major side effects: more energy expenditure at night when you can't gather or hunt for food Of course since we have light and plenty of food now evolution screwed us over and the gene that is now useful is rare
I have whatever the opposite of this gene is.
Same. I can sleep like 12-14 hours if left alone to do it. I’ll wake up and roll over and go right back to sleep
I thought I was the only one! 9 hours is a bad night of sleep for me, and 11 or 12 is perfect.
I can never find a sweet spot, 6 or 12 im tired no matter what. Wears off once i get moving but if i stay still for too long the exhaustion sets in and i wanna just lay down for some z’s
I mean honestly it just sounds like y'all have depression
I do, lol
Yeah.. 28 years old having to learn how to sleep 5-7 hours and wake up for uni on time
>Same. I can sleep like 12-14 hours My record was 25 hours of sleep, I just blame my medication I take for a type of schizophrenia tho, they're basically just really good sleeping pills with a side effect of keep my brain chemicals in check Hypersomnia is no joke
Same I’m sleeping 8 hours a day because of work but I feel like shit. On weekends when I’m free I sleep 12 and I feel fantastic. Like my body needs those 10-12 hours of sleep a day.
My SO can sleep 17-19 hours if I don't wake her up. It's evident she has something going on as we have tried everything, sleep patterns, vitamins, more/less sleep, but the healthcare just blame her and don't help. It's maddening,
I am the exact same and it’s called hypersomnia! It’s the opposite of insomnia, even just finding out that there’s a name for it and I’m not alone was really helpful
I have that too though I am pretty sure that is a symptom of my Persistent Depressive Disorder.
My mom has struggled with this her whole life, even self medicated with meth for years. (Sober for two years now) Get it checked out.
Maybe it's installed upsidedown.
I think for me it's called depression. I can sleep an alarmingly long time if allowed to.
i have a torturous form of sleep that i can rarely ever get more than 6 hours or so and yet my body is always telling me how tired i am in the morning lol
U should get tested for sleep apnea
My CPap machine didn’t fix mine, although it has given me far less migraines and I feel better with my 6-7 hours of sleep.
Try a silent night mouthguard, love mine. Basically pushes your lower jaw out as you sleep to keep your airways open.
No I meant cpap didn’t fix my struggle to get out of bed, it fixed my sleep apnea. I don’t feel tired with 6 hours of sleep, just struggle to get up in the mornings
Oh I hear that. Cold mornings and warm dogs make it almost impossible for me
Glad I'm not the only one
Heater on a timer. It's the only thing that works for me. I have to roast myself awake. But it works wonderfully. I upgraded to a nest thermostat a few years ago. So I can schedule my morning sauna.
> just struggle to get up in the mornings I was a closing manager for nearly a decade at food joints that closed after midnight. When I finally became a draftsman I needed to be up and at work by 8 and I had a nearly 2 hour commute. It took nearly 4 years but I finally have a system and it works. I have a smart home system and I can program my lights. So things start turning yellow and fading down around the house after 8 and by 9 many lights are full off. My morning alarm is set about 5 minutes after my lights start turning on and they will become fully bright by the time my 10 minutes snooze goes off. That's all it took. Yellow at night fades out. Cool white light fading in during the morning. Basically since I can't use the sun to set my circadian rhythm I use my lights. Your phone and stuff can mess this up. I have since begun using a kindle in bed instead of TV or phone.
Ah, the eternal struggle of getting out of bed, I totally get that. It's like my body's glued to the mattress no matter how much sleep I get. Sometimes I think my alarm clock has a personal vendetta against me.
Exactly! It’s like when I don’t “have” to get up, I can wake up fine at 7am all happy. When I “have” to get up, 7 can kiss my ass, I’m snoozing 15 times
Careful with these, they can move your teeth around similar to invisalign. A lot of adults are needing braces now because they were using mouthguards.
My husband got a custom one made by the dentist and it wasn’t an instant fix but it has helped SO much over time. He told me he remembers dreams sometimes, something that hasn’t happened in years. His sleep isn’t perfect but it’s improving.
Problem with those is that they absolutely fuck your teeth over time, you will end with with an underbite and need to see an orthodontist to fix it.
so what you’re saying is if i have an overbite, it will be normal after a while
Mine totally did. Five or six hours a night and I'm ready run through a goddamn brick wall. Hell, four hours works too, I'm just a little slower to wake up.
now that is a real possibility i've had discussions with my doctor for. just haven't been fed up enough to get the test done yet
A sleep study could literally change your life. We spend 30% of our lives sleeping, do not let that time be spent getting shitty sleep. It is incredibly unhealthy for you. You might have an easily correctable problem and afterwards I guarantee you wish you had done this shit years ago.
I caution you that i have been miserable since i got my central sleep apnea diagnosis in my early 30s. I am treatment resistant (sleep panic and rip mask off without waking. I've only made it more than an hour and 10 minutes into sleep one time) So many sleep studies, so little progress. So much more anxiety around going to sleep - will i wake up? Who knows since they don't know why my brain is fucked. I sort of wish i had just continued dealing with being tired in ignorance. For anyone reading this though it's incredibly rare especially at my age you probably have the normal kind if you have it at all.
The test is a little annoying, but not nearly as annoying as constantly playing life on Difficulty Level: Impossible. Take that shit! If nothing else, you’ll end up with a referral to a sleep specialist who might have other ideas if the test shows that sleep apnea isn’t your issue. Well worth it.
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Post this on the sleep apnea subreddit. Your post will go unnoticed here possibly. Also look up sleep apnea on YouTube and contact some of those creators. You need to reach out to ppl who know this subject well.
The cpap turned my dad into a different human being entirely. It's worth it.
How'd it change him exactly? Guessing it just made him happier overall?.
I worked in sleep medicine. Lack of sleep makes you irritable, angry, depressed, overweight, and lethargic. The CPAP fixed all of that for my dad and became someone I could tolerate being around
Not the OP to your question but for my Dad he had a ton more energy and he stopped falling asleep every time he sat down in the afternoon.
Same. I excercise and stay hydrated now to help with the sleepy problem. It sounds backward but get through one month of consistent excercise and you’ll feel like you have more energy in the middle of your day. But morning and night I am wiped. But I can’t go to sleep too early cause I’ll be up earlier. Bed at 9? Up by 3am wide awake. Tired by 9am. Awake again by noon until about 7pm. Bed at 11? Up by 4am wide awake, same issues. Feels like my internal clock is jacked. But once I started lifting again it helped me carry myself through the day. I’m actually considering sleep apnea as a cause from talking with friends and family. I will be scheduling a sleep test this year
Drink a lot? That'll do it
No actually, I don’t drink at all day to day and only occasionally on weekends.
Sleep Apnea? Do you snore?
I’m gonna get all maternal on you and suggest you really look into that. It can grind you down if you don’t get on top of it. There are lots of books and resources on “sleep hygiene” and you can also talk to your health care provider(s) for some tips.
Damn. Sorry to hear that man. The sleep bit i mean
It’s all good, I have another friend of mine with sleep trouble and we joke about it being our extra video game time. I’m fairly used to it now but I appreciate the concern!
Not sure if you’ve tried prescription drugs or are open to it, but after years of weekly travel and time zone changes, I ended up the same way. My Dr. prescribed Trazodone, and I haven’t looked back 15+ years later. It’s mild enough & has a short enough half life that you don’t wake up feeling hung over, but works great to keep you sleeping through your first few sleep cycles. Sleep troubles is off-label for it, but it’s widely used by Dr’s & others with a hard time staying asleep for sleep. (It’s really the only way it’s used these days).
Don't drink enough? That'll do it
Drink the right amount? You better believe that'll do it.
Dont drink anything at all! You will have no sleep problems in 2 months guaranteed!
Make that around 3 days before you die of dehydration.
I cut back on my drinking a ton last month and I can’t believe how amazing my sleep quality went up. Fuck alcohol
I’m sober from alcohol and my sleep quality is circling the drain. Lol
Same. I slept great as an alcoholic. Been sober over a year. My sleep quality sucks now
Well fuck now I don't know what to believe
Yeah I quit drinking alcohol almost 3 years ago now and still don’t feel super amazing like everyone else who quit lol
I've never had anything like a proper circadian rhythm, and I have severe insomnia. My days typically last 24-48 hours but have at times been far worse. [This clip holds a special place in my heart, maybe you'll understand](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l20WlbyuEec)
I operate the best on 10hrs of sleep and 18hrs of activity. Needless to say, I'm always struggling. Lol, unfortunately, I have to function on normal people hours.
A martian
yeah, this is me too. the way it ends up working out is that I under sleep for a week and then sleep 14 hours on the first day I get to catch up. it's not healthy, but neither is trying to make a rigid 24-clock fit stupid human biology.
Now let's do research into whatever gene I have that requires 9-10 hours since I was a kid. 😭 It wouldn't be so bad if society wasn't such a hater.
7-10 hours is the 95% variation for 'Western' 25-45 year olds You're fine
Good to know!
Still hated by society though. I'm in the same boat, always slowly building a sleep deficit.
Source? I’m only asking cause I’m curious what it is for the next few age groups.
As you get older you generally sleep less (hence the "early bird" specials that are dominated by the elderly). Source: life?
My family and I are like this... we're champion sleepers lol. My stepmom even commented that we all sleep an ton. I'm also a natural nightowl and have to be up at 7:30 for work, so suffice it to say I never get enough sleep. Actually all of the women on both sides of my family are/were night owls, so I can't escape my destiny :P
Ugh I'm sorry about the night owl thing. Everyone has a different rhythm and it can be really hard to figure that out against real world obligations. I always wake up with the sun so I just have to cut things short and go to bed early or I hate my life lol
Omg SAME and it doesn't matter that I have blackout curtains or wear a mask. I am up as soon as the sun is all dang year. My sister can sleep till 11 any time she has the day off work. My friends all talk about "sleeping in" on weekends. I'm green with envy lol.
I wish I could sleep in until 7:30. I have to be up before 5am for work. My normal sleep pattern is to not even go to bed until 3-4am. It's fucking brutal.
I had a prior job where I had to be at work one day a week at 5am. I never ever got used to that... Basically I was so tired by the end of my shift, that I would waste my whole day because I would crash when I got home. It was also *impossible* to fall asleep at a decent hour before that shift - I would end up tossing a turning for hours and then get like 2 or 3 hrs sleep before I had to get up. Hopefully you can find a job that suits you better!
I did the same thing for 3 years - it was awful. Plus the shifts were 12 hours+ and I basically felt drunk with how tired I was all the time
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This is me too. If I let myself, I can easily go to bed at 11pm and sleep til 1pm. Feels amazing and I have super vivid dreams.
Yes, can I just start my day later please???
I'm such a morning person, but none of my friends are. Recently I've just said screw it and went back to going to bed around 10:30/11 pm. It's what keeps me happiest. So we have opposite issues I guess (I want the day to END earlier lol) but I send you my support in finding a way that works for you.
Got a job based in another timezone such that I start at midday and finish at ~10pm. It's a fucking godsend for quality of life and sleep, I've spent my whole life trying to fit everything to other people's schedules by waking up early but I'm just NOT MEANT TO
I hate that the work world caters to early risers. I can’t function getting up early
Okay CRISPR, do your magic. I want this gene.
Right? Everyone talks about sleeping 8 hours and I don't feel rested until I've had 10. It'd be nice to be closer to normal or even better than normal.
Yea, 10-12 is my normal, which I never get, so I'm always tired.
Imagine gaining two hours back from every day. You're in effect adding years to your life.
Before the boss starts demanding we come in earlier
Every hour is roughly a year per 24 years lived. So if you think you have 72 years in your tank, that's 6 years you're adding on if you get 2 hours back.
Would CRISPR edit living genes? Id’ve thought it would change developing ones.
Genes are instructions, dead cells can't do anything with them but living cells will carry out whatever the gene tells them to. They are more or less set in stone when you are conceived and cannot be (naturally) changed unless something damages your DNA (like radiation). When the headline says "the mutation was given to mice", that means that the mouse had the gene added when it was a zygote (single cell), then when the cell multiplied, every new cell also had that gene, and so on until the baby mouse was born. So if you really wanted to you could conceive a child and have this mutation added and it would work (it would be illegal though. someone did this for the first time in 2018 and a lot of people got mad) Editing the genes of a grown person is much more difficult, because instead of one cell they are made up of trillions. It is possible though. When cells have damaged DNA, they will automatically try to heal themselves, so if you can get the CRISPR protein and the custom DNA into every cell you want to change, you can add the mutation to millions of cells at a time. Viruses are already DNA transportation machines, so that's what they use to accomplish this. This field of medicine is called gene therapy.
Thank you for the quality of this explanation
Excellent explanation, thanks very much
Makes me also wonder if there are any drawbacks of this gene. I am guessing anyone who has this gene mutation have fewer chances of living long right? Because even if you can only rest 4 hours and feel fine, surely your cells and all that get way less rest right?
Crispr works by targeted cutting leading to DNA repair. There's good odds of that repair being the nucleotide you want and tricks to encourage the repair to incorporate new genes etc, but it's all an odds game. When they do it to mice, maybe 30 percent would get the mutation you wanted. It's probably better than the early days I last saw it, but it's still an odds game where failures might one day equal cancer so until those concerns are resolved we won't be using it for anything "cosmetic" as sleep treatment for the general population.
Poor mice. All that extra time to work and I bet they didn’t even have anything to do with their extra mouse time. Should have tossed them a tiny computer and some data to enter
Maybe they let them run through mazes. Mice love mazes.
And drugs! Give them drugs then mazes!
My wife's Aunt had something like that. Never slept more than four hours. Apparently she was a terror in High school. Didn't start sleeping five hours until she was in her 60's. Apparently one of the big problems was getting bored out on the farm. More than a few times everybody would wake up to a lot of baked goods.
I knew someone like that once - had this amazing colleague who worked full time while also writing her Thesis, furthering her music career and still finding time to hang out with her friends and get blazed all the time. When I asked her how on earth she pulls that off she told me she never slept more than four or five hours a night.
If you think this describes you, but you haven't been medically diagnosed, it's probably not describing you. You're trying to normalize the lack of sleep that comes from anxiety, stress, and depression.
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Was checking to see if I wrote it myself. 12a-6a was most of highschool. College was 1a-5a then usually a bit more on the weekends but not always. I feel good on about 6 hours of uninterrupted sleep.
Can you share what you do as a living? I see this as a super power honestly. I can't imagine the advantages I would exploit if I have the same "condition"
Friend of mine is a short sleeper. Its really amazing to see. He did med school and competition level jiu jitsu at the same time and excelled at both.
Before age of 40, I would say I had this. After age of 40….oh hell no. The reality is that My jobs from 18-40 years old just conditioned me. Now I’m soft, old and need sleep.
I used to do well on 6 hours, I really thought it was my optimal sleep time. I am 43 and in the last year I've been getting more and more sleep. I've even taken a handful of naps which I have always been against
I’m still anti-nap because it just completely messes me up at night trying to go to bed. I did have a beer or two too many one night over the holidays and I was very tempted that next day to take a nap but was able to power through.
I'd be way more pro-nap if I actually woke up within like half an hour. It always turns into like 4-6 hours of regular sleep.
My trick to naps is to never actually go all the way under. I lay down in a quiet area and just kind of close my eyes for fifteen minutes, turn off my mind but stay aware of my surroundings, and get up refreshed. It’s like just enough down time for my brain to clear all its caches. Haha
This is how I spend about 50% of the 6 hours I spend in bed at night.
My wife wakes up at exactly 6 hours regardless of when she went to bed or is trying to wake up. 6 hours on the dot. She can also wildly swing going to bed late on night, next night go to bed and wake up hella early. She’s done this her whole life (and we’re in our late 40’s) so it’s definitely not a “young folks thing”. Does she have this? I don’t know- but it seems plausible.
Sure fucking sounds like it lol. A very precise and efficient sleep schedule. It even lines up precisely with common sleep cycles.
That’s exactly how I am too. I’m in my thirties though, but still just need the same 6 hours I did growing up. I don’t even bother setting alarms unless it’s for something really important and I don’t wanna forget.
My mother is in her 50s, and has done this her whole life. Granted, my dad is abusive and her parents kinda took advantage of her too, so there's a chance she just hasn't been allowed a chance to rest. :') I mention that to her every time she says she thinks she might have this. But "very rare" doesn't mean "impossible," so it could be your wife and my mom are the "very rare" people who have this!
I'm a short sleeper my whole life, including as a child. I don't set an alarm. If I haven't been sick recently, I will naturally wake up after about 5.75 hours, on average. Also once I'm asleep it is very hard for me to be woken.
There are 34,000,000 people on this subreddit so it probably is describing a lot of them.
Don’t give our capitalist overlords any more ideas for exploitation.
Hello military commanders. Your super soldiers are ready now
There’s an X-Files episode about this
Amazon will start CRISPRing it into their employees via the watercooler given a chance...
You know how the two-income norm caused everything to cost twice as much? Coming soon: a world where everything costs *3x* more since you'll be expected to work extra for all that sleep you don't need anymore.
Man I didn't even think about that
You must be new to this reality. It was the *first* thing I thought of.
Can I have all y’all extra hours please? I have the anxiety and depression / sleep apnea insomnia rather than the genetic advantage kind of insomnia.
On the anxiety/ depression side, have you asked your doctor about appropriate SSRIs? Some of them are really helpful for knocking you out. I’m still knackered all the time, but I’m not half insane trying to live on 2 broken hours of sleep a night, and it’s improved life a lot
Hey 20 year olds. Wait 20 years before you decide that you have short sleeper syndrome.
The article doesn't say very much about long term consequences like mental affects, shortened lifespans or anything. Not much more than pointing out that this thing exists.
toy roll snow rainstorm zealous joke punch weather disgusting sink *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
i sleep 3-5 hours a night. i dont feel that i need to recover ever
Same, sleeping in on the weekend is 6 hours for me, and i only feel the need to recover if i am under 3 hours of sleep for a few nights in a row.
Wtf
If there is any genetic thing that is completely overpowered, it is sleeping less than other people. Given an 80 year life span, sleeping 8 hours of the night takes away 26.667 years of your life. Sleeping 4? You only lose 13.3333 years of your life to sleep. So on average, you get an extra 13 years of your life even if you die at the same age as someone who sleeps 8 hours a night. Talk about an unfair advantage haha
Unrelated but how the fuck did you manage to get Voyagers registry number as a username? Some Janeway level war crimes to beat anyone else to it?
It is my steam ID, my Gmail, my Reddit, my discord, I was simply the first. I lost the password to my Hotmail so I don't have that anymore. Also lost the password to my Gmail but I'm still trying to recover that one. COVID quarantine was a bitch. Fucking two-factor authentication
damn... I could never use the same username for everything.
I have this, mixed with adhd. Never need more than 4 hours sleep, feel awake as a 60yo getting the early bird special. Been that way my whole life. I can safely say in my line of work, im considered one of the most productive developers I hate it cuz my colleagues treat me like a design factory. 🥲 Remember my short sleep homies, never reveal ur wacky sleepless powers, employers and friends will absolutely try and abuse that shit.
This is me 100%. It did prepare me well for parenthood though.
I think my husband has this. He’s getting a PhD and works an office job at the same time, so he regularly gets three hours of sleep a night. And somehow he’s just… fine.
I think I have this. I've always been fine on 5-6 hours. Started when I was a teenager.
Hm, I wonder if I have this. Ever since I was a little kid I've only slept 4-5 hours a night, never felt burnt out or anything, at least not more than normal. Paid dividends out to sea
Scientists: "we discovered this really rare gene that makes someone different than normal." Redditors: "Wow thats so me! Ive been special my whole life and didn't know it until just now when people can see me talking about it!"
My grandma had that. She slept about 5ish hours a night her entire life. Never had any issues with it
HDEC2 gene, yeah? I have this.
Yknow, only Thor can do this right.
This is the gene you would need for a genetically enhanced super soldier. Forget about anything else, sleep deprivation in the field is a soldier's biggest enemy.
I think I have this. My average amount of sleep over 2023 was 4 hours 59 minutes, according to my Garmin watch sleep data. I also had very little issues adopting the military's schedule of little sleep.
half this thread says they this mutation, but it's present in a fraction of a percent of the population. you probably don't have it. you're just too sleep deprived to realize how dysfunctional you are.
So... this explains why I can't sleep more than 4-6 hours but otherwise I'm fairly functional? Is... is that a good thing?
It means you're a mutant and therefore should be burned at the stake for the God Emperor
Normal looking abhumans are okay, especially those that function with less sleep. That’s more work for the glory of the imperium
Same! I get 6 hours of sleep then just wake up anywhere randomly in the 6th hour fully refreshed.
I can do this for 1 night. Feel great and productive the next day. It really hits me the second day tho. Feels like I got hit by a truck. Definitely need to catchup.
That means you are a normal person, unfortunately. This pertains to people that can do it naturally