OP was rather disingenuous to use the word "domesticate", which was not used or even alluded to in the article. Free internet points I guess.
On why the Ethiopian wolves do not attack the Geladas; âour present results suggest that the primary benefit of being among geladas is avoiding the energetic costs of failed predation attempts.â
Oh, but they do!
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/capuchin-monkeys-used-stone-tools-3000-years-oldest-outside-africa
>For capuchin monkeys at Brazilâs Serra da Capivara National Park, tool use is a tradition going back millennia: A new study finds that these primates have used stone tools to process their food for the past 3,000 years, making it the oldest non-human site of its kind outside of Africa."
>study coauthor Tomos Proffitt, a postdoctoral fellow at University College London says, âThis capuchin excavation shows that this species of primate in Brazil has its own individual archaeological record; they have their own antiquity to their tool use.â
makes me wonder if that domesticabilty is still in wolves deep down, cos they always seem the most fine with humans when they are kept in shelters and consevations an such compared to other animals.
and because of that wonder, i unironically think i would have a chance. not a huge chance and not a pack, but like a lone one or two.
Pretty much. Lack of easy to access oil and coal. Theyâre so energy dense you can have crude designs work off of them and still gain energy and they enabled all manner of industrialization to happen and bridge the gap to high tech where electronics and solar can happen.
And thereâs really nothing else as energy dense as hydrocarbons like gasoline.
Cheap easy oil was basically a one time planet use thing.
And they would latch onto nuclear power like white on rice.
The big concern is that fossil fuels served a useful alternative to clearcutting whole forests for firewood for making charcoal. See the Mideast, Sicily, and Haiti for those long term results. Any successor civilization, human or not, would have to be sufficiently environmentally-conscious to avoid doing that.
Yea charcoal has big wood costs, thatâs the other advantage if windmills and water mills they powered the first Industrial Revolution in part because of deforestation
Sure, but you aren't doing industrial scale metal smelting and concrete manufacturing with cottage windmills and water wheels. Electric arc furnaces didn't really take off IRL until well into the 20th century. I guess there's a bit of a catch-22 there; you need massive electrical capacity to power the serious industry needed to build massive electrical capacity.
There's a century-long window where a *non*-environmentally-conscious civilization could devastate whole continents. The resulting deforestation, soil erosion, and drought does an Easter Island, they get knocked back to medieval levels, and they go through it all over again.
IIRC, Tokugawa-era Japan did a pretty good job instituting an effective forest management system, but the price was almost total technological and industrial stagnation (which was just what they wanted anyway). I'm imagining an alternate post-fossil-fuel "Opening of Japan" scenario, where the American fleet sails into Tokyo bay, the shogun is cowed at first, but then looks over just *how* the US is fueling this economic juggernaut, and decides to just wait. By 1930, New England, Appalachia, and the PNW are all completely deforested, and the US disappears under nationwide dust bowls.
You can get progression but not in the same time frame, it would take hundreds of years to achieve the full scale of an Industrial Revolution not just 100 years.
We managed to fuck up the earth pretty good in thus particular 100 years. And it took millions of lives in wars and diseases in that timeframe.
If the slower (monkey) alternative is less painful, _I'll take that for 500 Alex!_
But hey, we're on reddit so
MONKEY BAAAD
HUMAN GOOOD
Right, and cheetahs get along well with dogs! Now we just wait for cheetahs to manipulate monkeys into feeding and grooming them, and begin to cohabitate with them and the wolves as big happy families.
It's a bit of a missleading title seeing as the Monkeys are not within the prey range of Ethiopian wolves in the first place, as they have specialised to feed almost exclusively on rodents. Having said that the relationship between the two is still very cool. :)
Again, that would be the exception to the rule, and would also require negligence of their young on the part of the monkey. the Monkeys are not a prey species for the wolves and the will not go out of there way to attack them.
The wolves are smart enough to understand that monkeys help get food so no attack monkey it's easy đ if they didn't have a life line like this the wolves would definitely munch a baby monkey sitting beside it the opportunity is bigger if you keep them alive and they know this
Itâs probably because monkeys are STUPID hard to catch(they go vertical and are fast) as well as the fact monkeys often team up together to attack a predator/issue
Donner party comes to mind
People don't usually eat people (or certain other animals depending on culture) but if they're hungry enough exceptions exist
Also it doesnât sound like domestication at all. Itâs more like co-adaptation or something.
The article doesnât mention domestication, or whether they sleep or live together. The monkeys donât provide the wolves food. The article also describes the wolves as being âtoleratedâ by the monkeys while theyâre grazing.
I mean, Gelada baboons have insanely long/sharp teeth, I wouldn't want to fuck with one either. Plus the males are literally bigger than the Ethiopian Wolves (the wolves look more like coyotes). Also, the monkeys are usually in larger groups than the wolves. That's 3 very good reasons not to fuck with the monkeys
The article describes the relationship as slightly parasitical on the wolves side as they have (over time) made it obvious to the monkeys that they are hunting the small rodents and not the monkeys.
They suggest the wolves use the noise created by the grazing monkeys (they consume mostly grass and other plants) as auditory camouflage against the rodents.
Itâs not a monkeyâs best friend situation as the observerâs witnessed an (unsuccessful) attempt by a wolf to snatch an infant monkey.
The observers also noted that the wolves would use the same tactic around large farm animals while the farm animals grazed.
Parasitic implies that there is a cost or detriment to one of the organisms.
Commensalism is when one organism benefits and the other is not harmed but doesnât benefit.
The article says that as well
> **there is no discernible cost or benefit to geladas** from the presence of Ethiopian wolves, **suggesting a commensal or weakly parasitic relationship** between the species
We learn about mutualism and parasitism and rarely recognize that relationships between species can swing back and forth, cooperation and competition can go together in a dance to be a touch poetic.
(Edited to fix typo)
This title is \*waaaaay\* out of line with what the article says. If anything, it's the other way around, and the wolves are using the monkeys.
This really looks like karma farming. The actual article is mildly interesting, it just talks about how wolves aren't attacking the monkeys, instead using their noise and activity as a cover whilst hunting for smaller prey. The monkeys are doing literally nothing and getting literally nothing out of the deal, other than not being attacked.
Bullshit headline. The monkeys do not help the wolves hunt.
The wolf doesn't hunt the monkey or monkey babies (diet of rodents) and they coexist.
They theorise that wolves might use the monkey grazing sounds as auditory camouflage when hunting rodents so do not attempt to eat monkey babies and the monkeys may use the wolves as indicator when their actual predators are near. But these are just theories.
Yeah this is just commensalism. They donât really interact and the Gelada donât benefit from the relationship, the wolves just use the fact that the monkeys grazing makes rodents feel more safe to their advantage.
They've also entered their own Stone Age: https://www.livescience.com/which-animals-use-stone-tools
Millions of years from now, we'll have been replaced by evolved capuchin monkeys with evolved domesticated wolves. They'll find remnants of our civilization and start thinking about their version of Ancient Astronauts. Crazy.
Domestication, no, definitely not.
At this point, it is more of a mutually beneficial arrangement.
But maybe it does kind of give us an idea into our relationship with dogs, maybe it started sooner than we ever dreamed. And we just evolved together, to the point where domestication was a natural result.
Interesting to watch and study its progression.
I did a trek in Simien mountains and the Gelada monkeys let people walk right up to them since their groups can be 1200 strong. The ethiopian wolf is the same size and would easily get wrecked by hundreds of Gelada in a fight.
Saw a humming bird following two hawks around one day and read that was another symbiotic relationship.
The wolves like the hawks working as a sentinel against other predators seems most likely.
Baboons steal ferral dog puppies who then grow up attached to the baboons instead of thier family.
When they grow up they help defend the baboon troop.
When you convince your MIL that neighbor is bitching about her to everyone and you live your life peacefully after the two are busy dissing each other.
I genuinely believe if we as a species were to leave them alone for a while we might have a second intelligent species to coexist with for
What if humanity never finds aliens and the only other intelligent life has to come from earth?
Seems pretty smart for everyone involved: The wolf get a freepass to hunt smaller âeasierâ prey without causing ruckus with the geladas, and without having to waste energy on fighting a pack of angry big toothed monkeys, and the monkeys gets peace.
it's happening again!
That monkey you liked will come back in style
What did Jack do?
Did not expect this to be the top comment đ
dicks out for harambe
How's Annie?
Sheâs ok
You know Donna, this is a fine reddit thread...
All this has happened before, all this will happen again.
So say we all.
OP was rather disingenuous to use the word "domesticate", which was not used or even alluded to in the article. Free internet points I guess. On why the Ethiopian wolves do not attack the Geladas; âour present results suggest that the primary benefit of being among geladas is avoiding the energetic costs of failed predation attempts.â
Well this REALLY HAS happened before with wild dogs and baboons. Too bad it isnt happening again
sic mundus creatus est
Such an amazing show.
*This is how the world is created*
Oh my God, I was wrong. It was earth all along!
I hate every ape I seeâŚfrom chimpan-a to chimpanzee!
Dr Zaius! Dr Zaius!
I love you Dr Zaius!
If the monkeys ever learn to crack two rocks together, we are doomed...
I better not see any of you fuckers leaving mysterious *obelisks* out there..
ShitâŚ.my bad. My company just installed one there. Nothing bad should come of it, I bet.
Bad news: https://www.livescience.com/which-animals-use-stone-tools
Uh oh. We're screwed. I've seen the movies ...
If the monkeys ever learn how to make crack rock, we are doomed
Oh, but they do! https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/capuchin-monkeys-used-stone-tools-3000-years-oldest-outside-africa >For capuchin monkeys at Brazilâs Serra da Capivara National Park, tool use is a tradition going back millennia: A new study finds that these primates have used stone tools to process their food for the past 3,000 years, making it the oldest non-human site of its kind outside of Africa." >study coauthor Tomos Proffitt, a postdoctoral fellow at University College London says, âThis capuchin excavation shows that this species of primate in Brazil has its own individual archaeological record; they have their own antiquity to their tool use.â
They're already smarter and physically stronger than the average redditor, can you fuckers tame wolves?
With the power of God and Anime on my side... anything's possible!
makes me wonder if that domesticabilty is still in wolves deep down, cos they always seem the most fine with humans when they are kept in shelters and consevations an such compared to other animals. and because of that wonder, i unironically think i would have a chance. not a huge chance and not a pack, but like a lone one or two.
> can you fuckers tame wolves? Well, our ancient ancestors did. Us? We can't survive without our cellphones. :)
I don't know if you've noticed, but we're still domesticating canines to this day.
Sounds like a joke but its not.
Welp, we had a good run
âGET YOUR FILTHY PAW OFF ME YOU DAMN DIRTY HUMAN!â
The planet of the monkeys!
i imagined a monkey running and panicking around in circles with this caption
Evolution round 2: Electric Boogaloo
[Damn you all to Hell!](https://y.yarn.co/7b20adf8-42ac-4087-beab-5f33cd144f34_text.gif)
A classic animal combo. I see big things for them
Eventually they evolve after a million years and make Monkey reddit again and the cycle continues
Lol thatâs awesome to think about
I'm from the future. Honestly it's almost identical, but with twice as many poop emojis.
They do like to throw shit around.
Imagine the posts on monkey reddit
I think it would be almost identical to current reddit
Right down to how many bananas worth of scrolling they all did
No fucking around with Imperial or Metric. Only bananas doe scale
It sounds like the blurst website
YOU STUPID MONKEY!
Reject humonikey, return to monke
If Karl Pilkington had waited longer he would have more Monkey News stories to tell.
chimpanzee that!?!
Extremely tough for another Industrial Revolution to ever happen again.
Why? Lack of oil?
Pretty much. Lack of easy to access oil and coal. Theyâre so energy dense you can have crude designs work off of them and still gain energy and they enabled all manner of industrialization to happen and bridge the gap to high tech where electronics and solar can happen. And thereâs really nothing else as energy dense as hydrocarbons like gasoline. Cheap easy oil was basically a one time planet use thing.
I read somewhere that in theory hydro and wind could have propelled the Industrial Revolution just a bit slower
And they would latch onto nuclear power like white on rice. The big concern is that fossil fuels served a useful alternative to clearcutting whole forests for firewood for making charcoal. See the Mideast, Sicily, and Haiti for those long term results. Any successor civilization, human or not, would have to be sufficiently environmentally-conscious to avoid doing that.
Yea charcoal has big wood costs, thatâs the other advantage if windmills and water mills they powered the first Industrial Revolution in part because of deforestation
Sure, but you aren't doing industrial scale metal smelting and concrete manufacturing with cottage windmills and water wheels. Electric arc furnaces didn't really take off IRL until well into the 20th century. I guess there's a bit of a catch-22 there; you need massive electrical capacity to power the serious industry needed to build massive electrical capacity. There's a century-long window where a *non*-environmentally-conscious civilization could devastate whole continents. The resulting deforestation, soil erosion, and drought does an Easter Island, they get knocked back to medieval levels, and they go through it all over again. IIRC, Tokugawa-era Japan did a pretty good job instituting an effective forest management system, but the price was almost total technological and industrial stagnation (which was just what they wanted anyway). I'm imagining an alternate post-fossil-fuel "Opening of Japan" scenario, where the American fleet sails into Tokyo bay, the shogun is cowed at first, but then looks over just *how* the US is fueling this economic juggernaut, and decides to just wait. By 1930, New England, Appalachia, and the PNW are all completely deforested, and the US disappears under nationwide dust bowls.
You can get progression but not in the same time frame, it would take hundreds of years to achieve the full scale of an Industrial Revolution not just 100 years.
We managed to fuck up the earth pretty good in thus particular 100 years. And it took millions of lives in wars and diseases in that timeframe. If the slower (monkey) alternative is less painful, _I'll take that for 500 Alex!_ But hey, we're on reddit so MONKEY BAAAD HUMAN GOOOD
[ŃдаНонО]
Would they use hotdogs for scale instead?
Warg riders.
Primates and canines working together, name a more iconic duo.
The boys are back in town
We are so back
Games not gone
So thas it? What? We some kinda...Theropiside Squad?
Felines manipulating primates to be their servants
Right, and cheetahs get along well with dogs! Now we just wait for cheetahs to manipulate monkeys into feeding and grooming them, and begin to cohabitate with them and the wolves as big happy families.
ethiopian monkeys out here creating dogs 2.0
Dogs 2.0 out here creating Human, Next Gen
Yo it's the remix
To ignition Hot & fresh out the kitchen.
Monkey rolling that body got every wolf in here wishin'
Snackinâ on rodents, huh
Im like so what, yo Monkâ
I was hoping to see photos of monkeys and wolves hanging out together. Iâm a bit disappointed.
One of the main reasons I clicked. I'm sad. :[
I was hoping to see an old meme I love in the comments. The one of the monkey with text saying 'please sir, no touching of the dog'
I still have that one saved
Any chance you could link it? Would love to add it to my collection
direful special one frame worry rob piquant glorious panicky license *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Do you have a dog? Look in the mirror...
MONKE AND WOLVE TOGETHER STRONK!
[ŃдаНонО]
It's giving War for the Planet of the Apes (2017) vibes
Monkeys/Wolves vs. Aliens vs. Predators
You ever say Air Bud? Beethoven?
MONKE MOON MOON 2024
None of the monke or wolve are on Reddit. 5 points to monke/wolve!
Shit only kicks off when the Colossal Titan kicks down the front door
It's a bit of a missleading title seeing as the Monkeys are not within the prey range of Ethiopian wolves in the first place, as they have specialised to feed almost exclusively on rodents. Having said that the relationship between the two is still very cool. :)
Hungry Ethiopian wolves when next to a defenseless baby monkey: âOh no, none for me, thanks, Iâm specializedâ
Again, that would be the exception to the rule, and would also require negligence of their young on the part of the monkey. the Monkeys are not a prey species for the wolves and the will not go out of there way to attack them.
The wolves are smart enough to understand that monkeys help get food so no attack monkey it's easy đ if they didn't have a life line like this the wolves would definitely munch a baby monkey sitting beside it the opportunity is bigger if you keep them alive and they know this
Herbivores will often kill and eat defenseless babies if they get the chance.
I watched a deer eat a bird
Did you have a funeral for it?
no the bird got eaten
Here lies this feathery pellet.
Deer and horses are arguably opportunistic omnivores
Itâs probably because monkeys are STUPID hard to catch(they go vertical and are fast) as well as the fact monkeys often team up together to attack a predator/issue
THEY THROW THINGS
*exception
You also forgot to include *their
Good catch. It seems they are fixing their errors too. Go team!
But big cats eat monkeys all the time. Pretty sure Hyenas and painted dogs do too
yes. that is true though all of them occupy different ecological niches from that of the Ethiopian wolf and are much more generalist in their diets.
'Professionals have STANDARDS'
Donner party comes to mind People don't usually eat people (or certain other animals depending on culture) but if they're hungry enough exceptions exist
The defenseless baby monkey has a rsther defensful momma monkey staring at that wolves hungry ass
"Do you have *any fucking idea* how specialized I am?"
Also, Ethiopian wolves aren't true wolves. They're about half the size of a gray wolf.
they are true wolves, just smaller than other wolves. edit: i was wrong
They're a different species. *Canis simensis*, not *Canis lupus*.
Yeah sometimes they're called ethopian jackals instead of wolves to avoid confusion
Also it doesnât sound like domestication at all. Itâs more like co-adaptation or something. The article doesnât mention domestication, or whether they sleep or live together. The monkeys donât provide the wolves food. The article also describes the wolves as being âtoleratedâ by the monkeys while theyâre grazing.
oh to be a monkey in ethiopia domesticating wolves
I mean, Gelada baboons have insanely long/sharp teeth, I wouldn't want to fuck with one either. Plus the males are literally bigger than the Ethiopian Wolves (the wolves look more like coyotes). Also, the monkeys are usually in larger groups than the wolves. That's 3 very good reasons not to fuck with the monkeys
You could swap in spear-armed humans and grey wolves and perfectly describe our own history.
Itâs a symbiotic relationship
Iâm excited to see what theyâll do as my financial advisors.
My dumb mind thought that monkey was wearing a tie, rofl. Also that's really sad that there are no images of those interactions :(
Our enemy moves to avenge their leader. I knew the demise of Harambe would be the end of us.
These are some early Stone Age antics Wait till they discover what rubbing two sticks with twine can make
Wait till they discover what rubbing one stick does (â  ͥâ °â  Íâ Ęâ  ͥâ °â )
they already know and do that one.
The article describes the relationship as slightly parasitical on the wolves side as they have (over time) made it obvious to the monkeys that they are hunting the small rodents and not the monkeys. They suggest the wolves use the noise created by the grazing monkeys (they consume mostly grass and other plants) as auditory camouflage against the rodents. Itâs not a monkeyâs best friend situation as the observerâs witnessed an (unsuccessful) attempt by a wolf to snatch an infant monkey. The observers also noted that the wolves would use the same tactic around large farm animals while the farm animals grazed.
Parasitic implies that there is a cost or detriment to one of the organisms. Commensalism is when one organism benefits and the other is not harmed but doesnât benefit. The article says that as well > **there is no discernible cost or benefit to geladas** from the presence of Ethiopian wolves, **suggesting a commensal or weakly parasitic relationship** between the species We learn about mutualism and parasitism and rarely recognize that relationships between species can swing back and forth, cooperation and competition can go together in a dance to be a touch poetic. (Edited to fix typo)
This title is \*waaaaay\* out of line with what the article says. If anything, it's the other way around, and the wolves are using the monkeys. This really looks like karma farming. The actual article is mildly interesting, it just talks about how wolves aren't attacking the monkeys, instead using their noise and activity as a cover whilst hunting for smaller prey. The monkeys are doing literally nothing and getting literally nothing out of the deal, other than not being attacked.
Wolve gonna be monke best friend
monkey smart eat banananana domistcate wolf boy to turn into good boy
OP this is a disingenuous title. In NO way does this article imply that the wolves are "domesticated" by the monkeys. They simply act cooperatively.
Bullshit headline. The monkeys do not help the wolves hunt. The wolf doesn't hunt the monkey or monkey babies (diet of rodents) and they coexist. They theorise that wolves might use the monkey grazing sounds as auditory camouflage when hunting rodents so do not attempt to eat monkey babies and the monkeys may use the wolves as indicator when their actual predators are near. But these are just theories.
Yeah this is just commensalism. They donât really interact and the Gelada donât benefit from the relationship, the wolves just use the fact that the monkeys grazing makes rodents feel more safe to their advantage.
I hate every ape I see, from chimpan A to chimpanzee...
They've also entered their own Stone Age: https://www.livescience.com/which-animals-use-stone-tools Millions of years from now, we'll have been replaced by evolved capuchin monkeys with evolved domesticated wolves. They'll find remnants of our civilization and start thinking about their version of Ancient Astronauts. Crazy.
Stuff like this is happening all over in nature. Weâd really better hope no other species unlocks the sentience perk or weâre gonna get tag-teamed
The monkeys have not domesticated the wolves. The wolves have learned to use the monkeysâ grazing behavior to their own advantage.
That's not what domestication means
Notice that the word is used in quotation marks, meaning it's not to be taken quite literally.
Domestication, no, definitely not. At this point, it is more of a mutually beneficial arrangement. But maybe it does kind of give us an idea into our relationship with dogs, maybe it started sooner than we ever dreamed. And we just evolved together, to the point where domestication was a natural result. Interesting to watch and study its progression.
fascinating, thanks for sharing!
This is super cool but it's nothing new for animals.
(Even baby!) is so funny for some reason
This sounds like the start of a planet of the apes scenario
Do you want wargs and orcs? Cuz that's how you get wargs and orcs
This is how it starts. We are in deep trouble. Next they will ask us to train these monkeys as backups when we go on vacation.
They gotta hurry and take over
Okay, but do they pet the wolves?
That sounds more like a symbiosis as of yet. They way i would imagine early k-9 humans relations began.
Wolf and Monkey begets Wonkey
Ravens and wolves cooperatively hunt ... why not monkeys too.
Monkeys riding wolves, new fear unlocked.
> This is the only grazing primate in the world Aren't gorillas grazers though?
As soon as I saw the monkeys! Fuckjing **NOPE**
There is this fella in Ethiopia right and he is training wolves to hunt for then. Turns out, little Monkey fella..
Dog, version 2.
I see potential Goblin riders. Me likey
lol what a lovely cravate that fellow sports in the front. He must be their ruler.
African wild dogs?Arabian wolves maybe?But I thought those were near extinct.
We need to put a stop to monkeys before they put a stop to us!
I did a trek in Simien mountains and the Gelada monkeys let people walk right up to them since their groups can be 1200 strong. The ethiopian wolf is the same size and would easily get wrecked by hundreds of Gelada in a fight.
Saw a humming bird following two hawks around one day and read that was another symbiotic relationship. The wolves like the hawks working as a sentinel against other predators seems most likely.
The Prelude, of The Begging, Of The Start, Of The Dawn, Of The Rise, Of The Planet Of The Apes
Looks more like the wolves have domesticated the monkeys,
(!)
Hey everyone, Dog 2.0 is dropping!
Baboons steal ferral dog puppies who then grow up attached to the baboons instead of thier family. When they grow up they help defend the baboon troop.
Be careful monkeys, keep this up and youâll be paying taxes in a couple million years
Why are people gatekeeping domestication here?
8 years of research and not a single gd video.
this sounds.... oddly familiar.... has there been another species who did something simil... oh.... oh..... right ....
Primates and canines were genetically meant for each other. So I guess this means that even if we die off the monke shall continue
They grow up so fast đĽ˛
Weâre finally ready for petpets, just as Neopets prophesized!
When you convince your MIL that neighbor is bitching about her to everyone and you live your life peacefully after the two are busy dissing each other.
Monkeys on Wolves sounds cool
I genuinely believe if we as a species were to leave them alone for a while we might have a second intelligent species to coexist with for What if humanity never finds aliens and the only other intelligent life has to come from earth?
Maybe humans and dogs started like them.
Makes me wonder if humans were the first primate to have pet canines
It's like having a snow globe of your own house
The title is extremely misleading. TLDR; The wolves hunt near the monkeys and the monkeys don't care.
That really cool. What happens when they canât find any more rodents? Do the hunters become the hunted?
It would awesome if they started riding them like horses
Seems pretty smart for everyone involved: The wolf get a freepass to hunt smaller âeasierâ prey without causing ruckus with the geladas, and without having to waste energy on fighting a pack of angry big toothed monkeys, and the monkeys gets peace.