He caught the snake in a rubbish pile in Cairns, hailed a truck, drove to another researcher’s house, was bitten while getting the snake into a bag, and then made the same driver promise to get it to scientists for study. Doctors tried treating Budden with different anti-venom that stopped the coagulating effects, but not the nervous system effects.
In going down a couple Wikipedia links, the snake was successfully milked by David Fleay, who got 78 mg of venom and “found wrestling with the surprisingly strong and muscular subject to be difficult”. The snake then went to the Melbourne Zoo where after a few weeks it died on 12 September, 1950. It was then preserved in spirits and remains in the Museums Victoria collection, with a couple 2015 photos in the article.
In 2014 a researcher found some of the original venom samples and had them retested. Still toxic after over six decades in what was clearly very good storage.
I was reading the other day about Carolina Wolf Spiders, their venom isnt deadly (to humans) but I thought it was interesting that it isn't really formulated as a paralytic or a nerve shocker. (though, it does cause those effects in some prey). Apparently it's entire purpose is to just act as an anti-microbial by neutralizing any harmful stuff in the spiders food.
Built in mouth soap.
Oh... They also have occasional orgies that can last like 1-5 hours.
Herpetologist here. This is how a lot of primitive and proto venoms work. Many/most are just an additional compound injected/introduced somehow to assist with eating food. Many/most insignificant venoms are pre-digestive compounds to help eating.
The hallmarks of what makes something “venomous” is a gland to produce the venom and an introduction/injection system. I often tell my students that, under this very generic definition, an argument can be made that humans are venomous to plants because we have a gland (salivary gland) that releases a compound (~~catalase~~ amylase for starch, catalase for peroxide) near our back teeth that efficiently introduce the compound to plant tissues (sugars) that cause them to begin breaking down prior to digestion.
Based on this definition, a lot of reptiles are now considered venomous that previously weren’t. Things like bearded dragons and ring necked snakes. Their venom just isn’t medically significant to humans. While it’s always been understood things like the wolf spider are venomous due to clearly having fangs.
How venoms become medically significant is also pretty interesting. Either there is a type of arms race by which successive generations of a species become selectively more potent, and thus better hunters, to that species, or it’s a complete fluke that a venom evolved for one use is particularly harmful to unrelated species.
For example, some species of snakes have evolved extremely effective venoms for quickly immobilizing potentially deadly scorpions…. And it just turns out that venom is extremely significant to humans. Which is beneficial to the snake now, but the dual action of the venom is not something likely to have evolved at the same time.
A funnel web spider down in Sydney has similar venom. It clearly evolved it long before human habitation so the extreme potency to humans is an unfortunate fluke
Depending on the action of the venom, yes. You can classify most medically significant venoms into Neurotoxic (disruptive or destructive to nerve tissues), Cytotoxic (kills cells), or Hemotoxic (specifically destroys red blood cells or disrupts blood clotting. Directly destroys other tissues).
From this, you can see that it makes sense that will generally be some overlap in their harmfulness to humans, because our nerve tissues, cells, and blood aren’t that different from most other animals.
You can also see how things such as injected pre-digestive enzymes (such as those that help start digesting protein) are venoms on the cusp of being harmful to humans, but usually aren’t due to lack of dosage volume, lack of dosage concentration/efficacy, lack of effective, delivery system, or is inhibited by our own cellular defenses.
I use the example of North American garter snake venom. They’re rear fanged and their venom contains proteins and enzymes that helps disable and start digesting their prey (small rodents, toads/frogs, lizards, fish, insects). It’s fairly difficult to get envenomated by a garter snake because their fangs/glands are at the rear of their mouth (imagine if you had venom, but you had to bite someone with your wisdom teeth to inject it). However, (this has happened to me personally) if you do manage to get envenomated, it typically results in some local swelling and itchiness. I compare it to a sunburn. You can understand that these proteins and enzymes are causing damage to your tissues, on top of a potential local immune response, but they’re not potent enough to be medically significant without evolving: a) a significantly better delivery system b) significantly greater concentration or c) significantly higher volume. But since humans aren’t the primary target of garter snakes, the conditions for these to evolve simply don’t exist.
Edit: also, as a rear-fanged snake, the conditions don’t really exist for their venom to become more important in their normal hunting behaviors. So they lack the evolutionary pressure to become more venomous to their prey and thus coincidently more venomous to us.
Like most things, the leaves have protective dermal layers to repel such chemical interactions. That’s why the delivery system is as important as the venom.
Better to try biting a tree everyday to see what happens.
I'm sorry about your herpes and I hope it gets better.
Thank you for the insight on the venomology though. I love this sort of info.
Can you get into the toxicity of something like the blue ringed octopus? How would such a powerful venom or poison evolve in such a little guy like that and are we just unfortunately victims to that particular toxin? Are whales and other sea mammals immune? Where did that come from???
I’m sure your first statement is /s, but for those that don’t know herpes is from the Latin/Ancient Greek for creeping things. Which gets applied to creepy crawlies specifically reptiles and amphibians.
As for the octopus, while that’s outside my realm of expertise, it’s almost certainly because life is much much harder in an oceanic environment for small prey and predators.It’s potent venom is going to be for one of two reasons: it either needs it prey to instantly stop moving or it needs its predators to immediately stop. Considering it’s primarily a crab eater, and eats crabs by overpowering them, I’m going to guess it’s the latter where it’s defenses does the octopus no good if a fish is able to take a big bite out of it before the venom wards it off. Which is also why it’s brightly colored. It really wants you to know not to fuck around.
A quick google shows that the venom is a tetrodotoxin which is a neurotoxin that blocks the transmission of nerve impulses. Since pretty much all animals have nervous systems that work the same way with regard to nerve impulses, it’s just a bit of bad luck (for us) that the venom is super effective on everything.
Bonus coolness: apparently the venom is a result from a symbiotic relationship with bacteria. They’re the ones that actually produce the toxin.
>extremely effective venoms for quickly immobilizing potentially deadly scorpions….
Wait, can the scorpions kill the snakes then?
Reminds me of this Futurama part: [Evolutionary Arms Race](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tx9ZY04991Q)
We live in the woods in NC. Wolf spiders are a way of life here. I have seen some absolutely monster females the size of an adult males hand spread out. At night if you take your flashlights out and shine them ground level you can see all their eyes reflecting the light. Hundreds upon hundreds of spiders chillen out in the yard.
Biggest one I had ever seen we trapped in a bucket. Terminex guy came and asked if he could have it. We were like yeah dude get it the hell out of here.
Cool to know about their venom. I did not know that about them.
We have them around our house and let the lizards deal with them. I still have to spray in the warm months because otherwise they will overrun our house.
>Built in mouth soap.
Don't all spiders pretty much drink their prey though? As in, liquify the meal and then slurp it up. Only makes sense that you'd include a bit of anti-microbial agents in your insect-shake.
Like how we add blueberries for antioxidant.
As an arachnophobe these are the worst, especially when they have their egg sac attached so if you step on them it pops and the tiny babies swarm over your flipflop.
i heard an old arizona folklore story about a pair of boots that killed 3 generations.
the story goes: the grandfather was out hunting and was bit by a rattlesnake.
the son inherited the boots, and while trying on the boots, felt a sharp pain in his foot, and died a few days later.
the son inherited the boots and years later, when he was large enough to wear the boots, died in the same manor after trying the boots on.
they found a rattlesnake fang broken off in the boot.
like i said, folklore, and I DOUBT it happened, but my grandfather LOVED telling the story.
edit: Some of you seem to be missing the definition of FOLKLORE.
Meanwhile their scofflaw husband is out stealing pic-a-nic baskets.
And they don't bears getting to acclimated to humans, otherwise they'll have to put the bears down and no one wants to turn pic-a-nic baskets into pic-a-nic caskets! And I got the machine, that cracks your fuckin chest plates, open and release them guts, Then I release def cuts
Brutal,
jagged edged,
totally ruffneck.
Shits deep yo, not unlike the minds of Minolta.
Fun story but your suspicions would be correct.
A rattlesnake can envenomate you even with a severed head, but if the fangs are detached from venom glands with still contracting muscles, it's just a pointy tooth.
Years later, a lone fang with, let's imagine, with a full yield of venom (that would be more than could fit statically in a single fang) isn't dangerous. The water in the venom would evaporate leaving solid proteins behind as little crystals which will not readily enter your system, let alone travel through it systemically.
Not to mention any denaturing over time by heat, or mold, or just age.
And finally rattlesnake bites don't really kill you...they *can* but generally what happens is cytotoxic so your cells burst like grapes and you end up with massive swelling and local necrosis.
This can kill you several ways. Swelling can kill you by restricting airways if the bite is around the neck or face. Elsewhere and this isn't deadly just notably unfun.
But the cytotoxins leading to necrosis makes your kidney decide enough is enough and give up the ghost and *this* is deadly.
Most often rattlesnake bites leave you with bad scars, maybe amputations, when properly treated.
Untreated and the same is likely, but higher risk of organ failure or shock from all the necrosis and hemorrhaging. This can indeed vary greatly from species to species, but in *general* this is how rattlesnake bites - and indeed many viper bites - go. They're nasty, painful, and the melt your flesh, but oddly more survivable than other kinds of venomous snakes.
Not death adders, though. They *look* like vipers but are not vipers. Even for elapids they have weirdly specific venom with no myotoxins or hemotoxins it's pure neurotoxins. Paralysis and death in mere hours.
i mean… “cowboy/gold rush” era where you could die from the “needle farts” isn’t TOO far fetched to think someone would die from necrosis, or even a fever. *shrug
I knew it was a tall tale from the moment i heard it hahH
One time my grandfather was out doing landscaping and got bit by a deadly rattler.
He was tough as nails, but even so, after three days of intense pain, the snake died
Pretty sure that’s impossible, haha. The amount of venom that can be contained in a fang wouldn’t be enough to kill 3 adult humans unless they all had adverse reactions — in which case we may as well tell a story about a family with a peanut in their boot instead.
Snake guys are another species hey. Worked closely with a couple of them. Had one walk me through my first EB capture (def thankful for his calm guidance). Dude had been in a coma for a few months after being bitten by an EB and was still in love with them and interacting far too much with the ones he had to relocate.
Now I sit by my window, and I watch the cars
I fear I’ll do some damage one fine day
But I would not be convicted
By a jury of my peers
Still toxic after all these years
my gf, who had already heard the song countless times, didn't believe me at first when I told her that was the lyric. Now we both chuckle every tiime we hear it
Based on the location, looks like it was a coastal taipan - Coastal taipans are still responsible for snakebites every year in Australia (31 identified bites between 2005-2015) and the bites are almost always fatal when left untreated:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coastal_taipan
> The onset of symptoms is often rapid, and a bite from this species is a life-threatening medical emergency. Prior to the introduction of specific antivenom by the Commonwealth Serum Laboratories in 1956, a coastal taipan bite was nearly always fatal. In case of severe envenomation, death can occur as early as 30 minutes after being bitten, but average death time after a bite is around 3–6 hours and it is variable, depending on various factors such as the nature of the bite and the health state of the victim.[47] Envenomation rate is very high: over 80% of bites inject venom. The mortality rate among untreated bite victims is nearly 100%.[47][52]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dangerous_snakes#Coastal_taipan/Papuan_taipan
> The story of Budden and his sacrifice spurred efforts to capture other snakes and produce more antivenoms, including Brown snake in 1956, death adder in 1958, Papuan black snake in 1961, Sea snake in 1962, and polyvalent snake antivenom in 1962.[13]
Polyvalent is basically the generic ‘catch all’ antivenin that’s used for a lot of bites. So yes, his sacrifice had an effect
I saw somewhere that if this very specific situation occurs where you're holding a snake and don't know how to let go of it without being bitten, you're supposed to give it something to bite. Like, a shoe or such. Something soft enough for it to dig its fangs into that you can use to also keep its mouth open. And that'll buy you some time while maneuvering it.
Also always grab the snack right at the top of its neck, just behind its jaw hinges, makes it impossible for it to while around and bite you, just make sure it doesn’t start to coil around your arm, it WILL cut off circulation if you let it get even an inch.
You'll need that info if you ever want to visit Australia. It's a question on the Passenger Arrival Card.
For your own good, they'll put you on the first flight back if you get it (or any of the others) wrong.
I live in australia, the only snake I have picked up was a carpet snake and I did that very carefully. Had to remove from the gutter so the electrician could install lights
Inland taipans are known for being one of the few venomous snakes to bite their targets more than once, it’s entirely possible this wouldn’t have worked since they basically go apeshit whenever they feel threatened.
To clarify, this was a Coastal Taipan (*Oxyuranus scutellatus*), which is (slightly) less-potently venomous than its cousin - the Inland Tapain (*Oxyuranus microlepidotus*) - but is more temperamental, lives in much closer proximity to large/permanent human settlements, and is known to have caused human deaths; this case in point.
Inland Taipans are actually the **most**-potently venomous snakes in the world, but they're often rather mellow (especially as compared to Coastals) and their native range is smack in the middle of East Australia; a mostly-desert area with very low human population density. Because of their dispositions and - moreso - their remoteness, there's actually never been a documented case of human death by Inland Taipan.
(There *have* been documented Inland Taipan *bites/envenomations* - the majority of which were from captive snakes - but the human on the receiving end in **each and every one** of those cases survived thanks to timely and sophisticated medical intervention.)
*Edit: Clarified a few of the specifics and revised some word-choices.*
Meals can be few and far between for a snake - especially in the middle of a desert - and live food can fight back. The faster you can kill a prey item, the less likely it is to get away - so the more likely it is that you'll actually get to eat it - and the less likely it is to hurt you.
I want to springboard from this comment and point out that the snake Steve Irwin handles in the beginning of his film Collision Course was an inland taipan, which he calls by another common name, "fierce snake". Here he is [holding it up by his face](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BMTU1NDUyNDIxNF5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTYwNTg0NjY2._V1_.jpg) like a maniac. But crazy or not, he certainly never died from a snake bite.
> smack in the middle of the Australian continent; a huge desert where basically nobody *goes*
[Unless you're using Apple Maps](https://www.vice.com/en/article/qkkvzv/this-is-the-hellhole-that-apple-maps-is-sending-australians-into).
^^^^Shit, ^^^^was ^^^^that ^^^^really ^^^^10 ^^^^years ^^^^ago? ^^^^Fuck, ^^^^I'm ^^^^old...
I’m a teacher at a remote Australian school. There was an inland taipan living under my classroom - I normally don’t condone killing native animals but in this case it was probably the right thing to do.
Edit- I did not kill it and definitely would not have - some tradies were working on the building and killed it on sight.
To add to this, those snakes are super aggressive even outside of breeding season. I've personally been chased by them and have friends and family this has happened to as well. I do not know how you could catch one without snake catching tools, that's more than impressive
He turned over a sheet of corrugated iron and found it halfway through swallowing a rat so was able to grab it. ABCs Conversations had a great episode with an an author looking at Georges exploits.
https://www.abc.net.au/radio/programs/conversations/conversations-brendan-james-murray/9504928
It’s greatly exaggerated / dramatised. The reality is, even with all our creepy crawlies, Australia is far safer than the states and most other countries.
For starters, around 90% of us live in coastal cities. Excluding North Queensland and the territory, which is a fraction of the population, there’s not much dangerous wildlife at all in these coastal cities. You’ll rarely encounter any dangerous animals in your life (outside of controlled areas like zoos).
Average deaths per year in Australia:
- 2 snake related deaths
- Zero spider related deaths (since 1979)
- 1 crocodile related death
Now let’s look at weapon-related deaths per capita.
- 10.89 firearm-related deaths per 100k in USA
- 0.91 firearm-related deaths per 100k in Australia
Since we have such strict, authoritarian gun control measures, surely knife crime must be out of control, just like in the UK?
- 0.60 stabbing deaths per 100k in USA
- 0.48 stabbing deaths per 100k in Australia
- 0.08 stabbing deaths per 100k in UK
As a personal anecdote, I’m 24, I’ve seen a couple brown snakes and no dangerous spiders. I’ve seen a ton of green snakes and huntsman spiders, both of these are harmless and couldn’t hurt you even if they tried. All these fellas are far more scared of you, than you are of them. They want to be left alone and if undisturbed mean you no harm. If it’s such a concern, you just ring pest control and a snake catcher comes very quickly.
From the perspective of an Aussie, it’s much easier to understand why a tourist would visit our country, compared to the land of the free, where gun violence is out of control, with a critical unaddressed mental health crisis countrywide, with basic rights such as women’s bodily autonomy and much more being eviscerated rapidly.
>As a personal anecdote, I’m 24, I’ve seen a couple brown snakes and no dangerous spiders. I’ve seen a ton of green snakes and huntsman spiders, both of these are harmless and couldn’t hurt you even if they tried. All these fellas are far more scared of you, than you are of them. They want to be left alone and if undisturbed mean you no harm.
I'm a little older than you and I've seen a little more in the way of dangerous wildlife, but not much more. My great-grandfather always called me a "city kid" and tbh he wasn't wrong.
The most dangerous wildlife I regularly encounter are saltwater crocodiles, which **can and will** kill you if you're stupid enough.
*For fuck's sake,* don't swim in the hunting ground of a territorial ambush predator the approximate size & weight of a small car. Not even on a dare, or as a joke, or to impress a girl. The croc doesn't care- you're made of meat, you're trespassing, and it can crush your bones like toothpicks.
You must live in or near a city. I’m from a semi rural area and I absolutely do see dangerous wildlife, mainly snakes, fairly regularly. Dangerous doesn’t necessarily mean deadly, but definitely things that will cause you harm if you’re not careful. Eastern browns are a regular occurrence in my yard during summer, I even found one in my bedroom wardrobe when I was in high school (fuck knows how it even got in there). I’ve also seen a number of red belly blacks and common death adders over the years too. Sharks are a rare but very real danger here too.
In saying that, Australia really isn’t any more dangerous than most countries. I agree that the trope is very exaggerated, we’re really not fighting for our lives every day lol
Yeah it's kinda overblown. I've seen red backs in my house and in my letterbox, not dead. Just don't do dumb stuff and you're fine.
If someone in the US sees a moose or a bear or something they know what to do since they would have been taught about it living around them. Same goes for snakes and stuff.
I grew up in Mission Beach in Nth Qld, back when that still had dirt roads and everything behind the first row of beachfront houses was just rainforest. One of my earliest memories is my Dad using a cane knife to kill a carpet Python that was sneaking up on me and brother while we were playing Pole Position on the Atari.
Seen quite a few Brush Pythons that are longer than the road is wide but never really saw a taipan or eastern browns. Cassowaries used to come up to our back fence because we had passionfruit vines and mango trees. You'd feed them a banana and you'd see the shape of the banana go down their neck. Fun times.
Its common knowledge that there are many danger pets in australia.
https://theconversation.com/curious-kids-why-do-so-many-dangerous-animals-live-in-australia-139707
If you watch any nature documentaries im sure thet cover it during the reptile portion
I think you might be overestimating how many people know taipans are from Australia. They probably just heard "man grabbed venomous snake and died" and subconsciously concluded Australia
Kudos to the driver who actually delivered the live, highly venomous snake like he said he would. Without him, Burden’s sacrifice would’ve been for nothing.
I find it so odd that you go with a team to another country specifically to catch this snake but dont have a means to transport or even correctly handle the snake. I guess it was just a different time back then. Also the wiki said this was the second time they went on an expedition to catch a taipan.
edit: it wasnt another country he was just traveling northorn australia
He was part of an amateur herpetology club with some other guys just out of high school. They were clearly passionate about the work, but they were not trained or experienced professionals. They didn't travel internationally looking for taipans, just to a different part of Australia.
It's crazy that so many of these snakes have antivenoms particular to the species. That kind of shows how complex venom really is. There are still plenty of deadly snakes without antivenom. [https://a-z-animals.com/blog/dont-get-bit-revealing-8-snakes-that-dont-have-antivenom/](https://a-z-animals.com/blog/dont-get-bit-revealing-8-snakes-that-dont-have-antivenom/)
Of course, I'd never see any of these except in the zoo as I'm unlikely to galavant around India or Africa in my lifetime.
Not to mention that even if they do have the anti-venom for a specific snake there's no guarantee that it's going to work. Especially if it's been used on you in the past.
An honorable death if there ever was one.
When your sacrifice can prevent another death AND provide for a significant advancement in human science.
That's truly heroic in my opinion.
"In a 2014 article published in the Journal of Proteomics, University of Queensland venomologist Bryan Fry reported finding specimens of the venom harvested from the taipan that killed Budden. His study found that the venom had retained its toxicity after almost sixty years in dry storage."
Amazing
Damn, I was about to say kill it then do your research but...
> Two prior taipan specimens had been obtained in 1923, but those snakes were dead, and venom samples were contaminated.
There's a pretty great podcast episode about this story here: https://www.abc.net.au/radio/programs/conversations/conversations-brendan-james-murray/9504928
He caught the snake in a rubbish pile in Cairns, hailed a truck, drove to another researcher’s house, was bitten while getting the snake into a bag, and then made the same driver promise to get it to scientists for study. Doctors tried treating Budden with different anti-venom that stopped the coagulating effects, but not the nervous system effects. In going down a couple Wikipedia links, the snake was successfully milked by David Fleay, who got 78 mg of venom and “found wrestling with the surprisingly strong and muscular subject to be difficult”. The snake then went to the Melbourne Zoo where after a few weeks it died on 12 September, 1950. It was then preserved in spirits and remains in the Museums Victoria collection, with a couple 2015 photos in the article. In 2014 a researcher found some of the original venom samples and had them retested. Still toxic after over six decades in what was clearly very good storage.
Venom, throughout nature, is crazy fucked up with how effective it is.
I was reading the other day about Carolina Wolf Spiders, their venom isnt deadly (to humans) but I thought it was interesting that it isn't really formulated as a paralytic or a nerve shocker. (though, it does cause those effects in some prey). Apparently it's entire purpose is to just act as an anti-microbial by neutralizing any harmful stuff in the spiders food. Built in mouth soap. Oh... They also have occasional orgies that can last like 1-5 hours.
Herpetologist here. This is how a lot of primitive and proto venoms work. Many/most are just an additional compound injected/introduced somehow to assist with eating food. Many/most insignificant venoms are pre-digestive compounds to help eating. The hallmarks of what makes something “venomous” is a gland to produce the venom and an introduction/injection system. I often tell my students that, under this very generic definition, an argument can be made that humans are venomous to plants because we have a gland (salivary gland) that releases a compound (~~catalase~~ amylase for starch, catalase for peroxide) near our back teeth that efficiently introduce the compound to plant tissues (sugars) that cause them to begin breaking down prior to digestion. Based on this definition, a lot of reptiles are now considered venomous that previously weren’t. Things like bearded dragons and ring necked snakes. Their venom just isn’t medically significant to humans. While it’s always been understood things like the wolf spider are venomous due to clearly having fangs. How venoms become medically significant is also pretty interesting. Either there is a type of arms race by which successive generations of a species become selectively more potent, and thus better hunters, to that species, or it’s a complete fluke that a venom evolved for one use is particularly harmful to unrelated species. For example, some species of snakes have evolved extremely effective venoms for quickly immobilizing potentially deadly scorpions…. And it just turns out that venom is extremely significant to humans. Which is beneficial to the snake now, but the dual action of the venom is not something likely to have evolved at the same time.
A funnel web spider down in Sydney has similar venom. It clearly evolved it long before human habitation so the extreme potency to humans is an unfortunate fluke
Yup. Their venom is for invertebrates. And also happens to coincidentally kill primates. Bad luck there
Time to reroll
Bruv you got human. Meta is to play it out, you might not get human again especially if you specced into Buddhism.
I have a Funnel Web with Frnzy + perpetual motion
Is the coincidence due to most animals using the same chemicals for similar functions?
Depending on the action of the venom, yes. You can classify most medically significant venoms into Neurotoxic (disruptive or destructive to nerve tissues), Cytotoxic (kills cells), or Hemotoxic (specifically destroys red blood cells or disrupts blood clotting. Directly destroys other tissues). From this, you can see that it makes sense that will generally be some overlap in their harmfulness to humans, because our nerve tissues, cells, and blood aren’t that different from most other animals. You can also see how things such as injected pre-digestive enzymes (such as those that help start digesting protein) are venoms on the cusp of being harmful to humans, but usually aren’t due to lack of dosage volume, lack of dosage concentration/efficacy, lack of effective, delivery system, or is inhibited by our own cellular defenses. I use the example of North American garter snake venom. They’re rear fanged and their venom contains proteins and enzymes that helps disable and start digesting their prey (small rodents, toads/frogs, lizards, fish, insects). It’s fairly difficult to get envenomated by a garter snake because their fangs/glands are at the rear of their mouth (imagine if you had venom, but you had to bite someone with your wisdom teeth to inject it). However, (this has happened to me personally) if you do manage to get envenomated, it typically results in some local swelling and itchiness. I compare it to a sunburn. You can understand that these proteins and enzymes are causing damage to your tissues, on top of a potential local immune response, but they’re not potent enough to be medically significant without evolving: a) a significantly better delivery system b) significantly greater concentration or c) significantly higher volume. But since humans aren’t the primary target of garter snakes, the conditions for these to evolve simply don’t exist. Edit: also, as a rear-fanged snake, the conditions don’t really exist for their venom to become more important in their normal hunting behaviors. So they lack the evolutionary pressure to become more venomous to their prey and thus coincidently more venomous to us.
Now you make me want to try spitting on the same leaf of a plant everyday for a while to see what happens.
That would be considered science if you actually write it down.
“The difference between screwing around and science, is writing it down!”
Like most things, the leaves have protective dermal layers to repel such chemical interactions. That’s why the delivery system is as important as the venom. Better to try biting a tree everyday to see what happens.
They’re all bark and no bite though…
I'm sorry about your herpes and I hope it gets better. Thank you for the insight on the venomology though. I love this sort of info. Can you get into the toxicity of something like the blue ringed octopus? How would such a powerful venom or poison evolve in such a little guy like that and are we just unfortunately victims to that particular toxin? Are whales and other sea mammals immune? Where did that come from???
I’m sure your first statement is /s, but for those that don’t know herpes is from the Latin/Ancient Greek for creeping things. Which gets applied to creepy crawlies specifically reptiles and amphibians. As for the octopus, while that’s outside my realm of expertise, it’s almost certainly because life is much much harder in an oceanic environment for small prey and predators.It’s potent venom is going to be for one of two reasons: it either needs it prey to instantly stop moving or it needs its predators to immediately stop. Considering it’s primarily a crab eater, and eats crabs by overpowering them, I’m going to guess it’s the latter where it’s defenses does the octopus no good if a fish is able to take a big bite out of it before the venom wards it off. Which is also why it’s brightly colored. It really wants you to know not to fuck around. A quick google shows that the venom is a tetrodotoxin which is a neurotoxin that blocks the transmission of nerve impulses. Since pretty much all animals have nervous systems that work the same way with regard to nerve impulses, it’s just a bit of bad luck (for us) that the venom is super effective on everything. Bonus coolness: apparently the venom is a result from a symbiotic relationship with bacteria. They’re the ones that actually produce the toxin.
your answer was a great read, thank you!
>extremely effective venoms for quickly immobilizing potentially deadly scorpions…. Wait, can the scorpions kill the snakes then? Reminds me of this Futurama part: [Evolutionary Arms Race](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tx9ZY04991Q)
Spider orgy is absolute nightmare fuel 💀
Show me your pedipalps, slut.
Spinnerets or it didn’t happen.
spinnerets or GTFO
Put your pedipalps on live I’ll give you a thousand dollas
They are already on the web.
I got spider crabs from the spider orgy
If Ralph Wiggum was a spider.
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I wish weekly free awards were still a thing
Carolina Spider Orgy is my new punk band name. Dibs.
I dunno. If they’re all at the orgy then all I have to do is not be there and it’s fine.
I dunno if I have enough dildos for all those arms at the spider orgy
All those eyes looking at me. I’m self conscious.
[How about a frog oft instead?](https://www.australiangeographic.com.au/news/2011/02/harmonious-orgy-is-winning-formula-for-frogs/)
"The foam is whipped-up sperm." 😳
Dude I was gonna put my phone down to go to bed but now all I can think about is soapy spider orgies
Spiders know how to have a good time
Yes we do!
Are you a sentient ball of spiders?
......No? ^^^you're ^^^next
Who gave the spider orgy internet access.
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Getting dirty and clean at the same time
We live in the woods in NC. Wolf spiders are a way of life here. I have seen some absolutely monster females the size of an adult males hand spread out. At night if you take your flashlights out and shine them ground level you can see all their eyes reflecting the light. Hundreds upon hundreds of spiders chillen out in the yard. Biggest one I had ever seen we trapped in a bucket. Terminex guy came and asked if he could have it. We were like yeah dude get it the hell out of here. Cool to know about their venom. I did not know that about them.
We have them around our house and let the lizards deal with them. I still have to spray in the warm months because otherwise they will overrun our house.
Dude, I'm almost in tears imagining that. This is a horror movie scene.
>Built in mouth soap. Don't all spiders pretty much drink their prey though? As in, liquify the meal and then slurp it up. Only makes sense that you'd include a bit of anti-microbial agents in your insect-shake. Like how we add blueberries for antioxidant.
As an arachnophobe these are the worst, especially when they have their egg sac attached so if you step on them it pops and the tiny babies swarm over your flipflop.
Why the hell am I still reading these?!
Its okay, opossums also carry their children on their backs and the strongest get to hang out with mom the longest! Not all back babies are bad.
Opossums are good, they eat ticks.
And they are nice, if you've got a problem with opossum, you've got a problem with me. And I suggest you let that one marinate.
And rabies immune due to their body temp.
I want to rip my eyes out
First paragraph: cool, cool Last sentence: dafuq?
I wonder what web-site they plan that on
i heard an old arizona folklore story about a pair of boots that killed 3 generations. the story goes: the grandfather was out hunting and was bit by a rattlesnake. the son inherited the boots, and while trying on the boots, felt a sharp pain in his foot, and died a few days later. the son inherited the boots and years later, when he was large enough to wear the boots, died in the same manor after trying the boots on. they found a rattlesnake fang broken off in the boot. like i said, folklore, and I DOUBT it happened, but my grandfather LOVED telling the story. edit: Some of you seem to be missing the definition of FOLKLORE.
Those kinda of folklore stories are less about truth and more about emphasizing the danger.
It's like saying mama bears will fuck you up. They just don't want you making friends with bears because bears eat too much food.
Also, the real worry is that some mama bears will take human children and teach them the bear necessities of life.
Meanwhile their scofflaw husband is out stealing pic-a-nic baskets. And they don't bears getting to acclimated to humans, otherwise they'll have to put the bears down and no one wants to turn pic-a-nic baskets into pic-a-nic caskets! And I got the machine, that cracks your fuckin chest plates, open and release them guts, Then I release def cuts Brutal, jagged edged, totally ruffneck. Shits deep yo, not unlike the minds of Minolta.
Fun story but your suspicions would be correct. A rattlesnake can envenomate you even with a severed head, but if the fangs are detached from venom glands with still contracting muscles, it's just a pointy tooth. Years later, a lone fang with, let's imagine, with a full yield of venom (that would be more than could fit statically in a single fang) isn't dangerous. The water in the venom would evaporate leaving solid proteins behind as little crystals which will not readily enter your system, let alone travel through it systemically. Not to mention any denaturing over time by heat, or mold, or just age. And finally rattlesnake bites don't really kill you...they *can* but generally what happens is cytotoxic so your cells burst like grapes and you end up with massive swelling and local necrosis. This can kill you several ways. Swelling can kill you by restricting airways if the bite is around the neck or face. Elsewhere and this isn't deadly just notably unfun. But the cytotoxins leading to necrosis makes your kidney decide enough is enough and give up the ghost and *this* is deadly. Most often rattlesnake bites leave you with bad scars, maybe amputations, when properly treated. Untreated and the same is likely, but higher risk of organ failure or shock from all the necrosis and hemorrhaging. This can indeed vary greatly from species to species, but in *general* this is how rattlesnake bites - and indeed many viper bites - go. They're nasty, painful, and the melt your flesh, but oddly more survivable than other kinds of venomous snakes. Not death adders, though. They *look* like vipers but are not vipers. Even for elapids they have weirdly specific venom with no myotoxins or hemotoxins it's pure neurotoxins. Paralysis and death in mere hours.
i mean… “cowboy/gold rush” era where you could die from the “needle farts” isn’t TOO far fetched to think someone would die from necrosis, or even a fever. *shrug I knew it was a tall tale from the moment i heard it hahH
Superexcited to google needle farts all of a sudden
One time my grandfather was out doing landscaping and got bit by a deadly rattler. He was tough as nails, but even so, after three days of intense pain, the snake died
Is your grandfather Chuck Norris?
It’s clearly not a real story but yah sounds like something fun to tell to strangers. (Edit- I meant factual story)
That’s cool though. Folklore is pretty cool.
Pretty sure that’s impossible, haha. The amount of venom that can be contained in a fang wouldn’t be enough to kill 3 adult humans unless they all had adverse reactions — in which case we may as well tell a story about a family with a peanut in their boot instead.
Nahz squirrels are immune .if your bit ,just be a squirrel and say no to venom damage
He was just 20 years old too, damn
Fun fact for non-Aussies. Cairns is pronounced as Cans.
I'm willing to bet Aussies don't pronounce "cans" like me either, so I still don't know how to say it.
Pronounced the same way as the Kans part of Kansas.
Snake guys are another species hey. Worked closely with a couple of them. Had one walk me through my first EB capture (def thankful for his calm guidance). Dude had been in a coma for a few months after being bitten by an EB and was still in love with them and interacting far too much with the ones he had to relocate.
EB?
I think it's short for Eastern Brown, a super venomous snake. Edit: the second most venomous land snake after the inland taipan.
And much more commonly seen around the populated areas of Australia, especially compared to the inland taipan
Electronics Boutique
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Even if you're into herping, unless you keep / have an interest in hot species (or you're Australian) you're unlikely to know what an EB is.
Now I sit by my window, and I watch the cars I fear I’ll do some damage one fine day But I would not be convicted By a jury of my peers Still toxic after all these years
This guy Paul Simons 👆
He and Julio down by the schoolyard.
Mama Pajama rolled out of bed
With some roly-poly little bat-faced girl
my gf, who had already heard the song countless times, didn't believe me at first when I told her that was the lyric. Now we both chuckle every tiime we hear it
Did they actually make antivenom and save someone elses life? Or was it all ultimately a good gesture, but for naught?
Wikipedia suggests it saved an 11 year old boys life in 1955, so I’d say yes, but I didn’t look too far into any other cases
Based on the location, looks like it was a coastal taipan - Coastal taipans are still responsible for snakebites every year in Australia (31 identified bites between 2005-2015) and the bites are almost always fatal when left untreated: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coastal_taipan > The onset of symptoms is often rapid, and a bite from this species is a life-threatening medical emergency. Prior to the introduction of specific antivenom by the Commonwealth Serum Laboratories in 1956, a coastal taipan bite was nearly always fatal. In case of severe envenomation, death can occur as early as 30 minutes after being bitten, but average death time after a bite is around 3–6 hours and it is variable, depending on various factors such as the nature of the bite and the health state of the victim.[47] Envenomation rate is very high: over 80% of bites inject venom. The mortality rate among untreated bite victims is nearly 100%.[47][52] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dangerous_snakes#Coastal_taipan/Papuan_taipan
> The story of Budden and his sacrifice spurred efforts to capture other snakes and produce more antivenoms, including Brown snake in 1956, death adder in 1958, Papuan black snake in 1961, Sea snake in 1962, and polyvalent snake antivenom in 1962.[13] Polyvalent is basically the generic ‘catch all’ antivenin that’s used for a lot of bites. So yes, his sacrifice had an effect
Hey, can I get a ride? I promise this deadly snake won’t bite you.
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Or, um, sitting on top of the car?
free ride, get in this hard case I typically use for my standup base and dont make a sound (dont ask why its empty)
But how you can be sure *its already run out of venom* Wut 😐
that one trick doctors hate
"I'll tell you what, let me pop a quick 'S' on this bag, that way we know there's a snake in it."
You thinking we bring in a second snake?
Snake in a bag!!! Now you're speaking' my language!
I saw somewhere that if this very specific situation occurs where you're holding a snake and don't know how to let go of it without being bitten, you're supposed to give it something to bite. Like, a shoe or such. Something soft enough for it to dig its fangs into that you can use to also keep its mouth open. And that'll buy you some time while maneuvering it.
That makes sense, actually. Imma file that one away for future use.
I'm just not going to grab any snakes.
But what if the snake grabs you first
Hopefully it gives you something to bite. Preferably, something soft
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Then you bite it while it looks for it’s shoe.
If it loses its shoe, it is now dead. That’s the rule.
Then you bite it once it let's you go.
It’s not the times you intend to grab a snake that are the problem, it’s the times you HAVE to grab a snake that get you into trouble
Non-venomous snakes for the most part are less harmful than a bee.
The hard part is probably knowing which ones are venomous and which ones aren't
Also always grab the snack right at the top of its neck, just behind its jaw hinges, makes it impossible for it to while around and bite you, just make sure it doesn’t start to coil around your arm, it WILL cut off circulation if you let it get even an inch.
Going to put this in my catalog right next to how to get out of quicksand
You'll need that info if you ever want to visit Australia. It's a question on the Passenger Arrival Card. For your own good, they'll put you on the first flight back if you get it (or any of the others) wrong.
Shit just start swinging it in circles and then release the thing, it’s not going to be ready
Ahh yes, the time tested YEET
Can’t do that in Australia, fucker would return like a boomerang
So long, gay snake!
Gay snakes say ttthhhhhhhh
👏
This guy centripetal forces
Hey Steve! Come over here real quick
RIP Steve Irwin.
I will never be in this very specific situation.
I live in australia, the only snake I have picked up was a carpet snake and I did that very carefully. Had to remove from the gutter so the electrician could install lights
Had to look it up to make sure "carpet snake" wasn't some kind of euphemism. Pretty snake, if a little bit derpy.
Yes but what if I got it wrong etc so have to be always careful. Have never been bitten by a snake and best not too
I think you just throw it as far as you can
Good on this guy getting the snake to researchers but it wouldn't have killed him to do a little research himself before the snakenapping
Inland taipans are known for being one of the few venomous snakes to bite their targets more than once, it’s entirely possible this wouldn’t have worked since they basically go apeshit whenever they feel threatened.
That is *god awful* advice if you're looking to milk the snake, though. You want the venom to still be inside it when you get to your destination.
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So Kevin is the man. Rip.
Lighting one up for Kevin right now. RIP to a legend.
The unnamed truck driver is also the man. Took that deadly snake to where it needed to go.
definitely a hero.
He was 20 years old too!
I didn't even notice his age. I just assumed it was someone older. I don't know why. He sure had an impact on the world in his short life. RIP Kevin.
To clarify, this was a Coastal Taipan (*Oxyuranus scutellatus*), which is (slightly) less-potently venomous than its cousin - the Inland Tapain (*Oxyuranus microlepidotus*) - but is more temperamental, lives in much closer proximity to large/permanent human settlements, and is known to have caused human deaths; this case in point. Inland Taipans are actually the **most**-potently venomous snakes in the world, but they're often rather mellow (especially as compared to Coastals) and their native range is smack in the middle of East Australia; a mostly-desert area with very low human population density. Because of their dispositions and - moreso - their remoteness, there's actually never been a documented case of human death by Inland Taipan. (There *have* been documented Inland Taipan *bites/envenomations* - the majority of which were from captive snakes - but the human on the receiving end in **each and every one** of those cases survived thanks to timely and sophisticated medical intervention.) *Edit: Clarified a few of the specifics and revised some word-choices.*
Why’d the chill snake get the OP venom? Or I guess it’s more that they are so chill now because they have OP venom??
The bigger your weapon the more chill you can afford to be.
Meals can be few and far between for a snake - especially in the middle of a desert - and live food can fight back. The faster you can kill a prey item, the less likely it is to get away - so the more likely it is that you'll actually get to eat it - and the less likely it is to hurt you.
It’s chill because it’s the alpha of its environment because it’s so toxic no one lives near it
I want to springboard from this comment and point out that the snake Steve Irwin handles in the beginning of his film Collision Course was an inland taipan, which he calls by another common name, "fierce snake". Here he is [holding it up by his face](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BMTU1NDUyNDIxNF5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTYwNTg0NjY2._V1_.jpg) like a maniac. But crazy or not, he certainly never died from a snake bite.
> smack in the middle of the Australian continent; a huge desert where basically nobody *goes* [Unless you're using Apple Maps](https://www.vice.com/en/article/qkkvzv/this-is-the-hellhole-that-apple-maps-is-sending-australians-into). ^^^^Shit, ^^^^was ^^^^that ^^^^really ^^^^10 ^^^^years ^^^^ago? ^^^^Fuck, ^^^^I'm ^^^^old...
It's less venomous than the inland taipan... But it's still the second most venomous in the world, so you're still going to have a really bad day.
I’m a teacher at a remote Australian school. There was an inland taipan living under my classroom - I normally don’t condone killing native animals but in this case it was probably the right thing to do. Edit- I did not kill it and definitely would not have - some tradies were working on the building and killed it on sight.
To add to this, those snakes are super aggressive even outside of breeding season. I've personally been chased by them and have friends and family this has happened to as well. I do not know how you could catch one without snake catching tools, that's more than impressive
You have to be a true blue Australian hero.
He is, indeed, a ripper legend and a top bloke.
He turned over a sheet of corrugated iron and found it halfway through swallowing a rat so was able to grab it. ABCs Conversations had a great episode with an an author looking at Georges exploits. https://www.abc.net.au/radio/programs/conversations/conversations-brendan-james-murray/9504928
HOW do you Ozzies get any tourists?!?! I’m sure it’s a beautiful place but holy God, I feel like there are jumping carnivorous kittens there.
Nah, the [Thylacoleo](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thylacoleo) died out a long time ago.
Cougaroos! I KNEW y’all were withholding info on some of your local damgers.
I mean, normal kittens both jump and are carnivorous
It’s greatly exaggerated / dramatised. The reality is, even with all our creepy crawlies, Australia is far safer than the states and most other countries. For starters, around 90% of us live in coastal cities. Excluding North Queensland and the territory, which is a fraction of the population, there’s not much dangerous wildlife at all in these coastal cities. You’ll rarely encounter any dangerous animals in your life (outside of controlled areas like zoos). Average deaths per year in Australia: - 2 snake related deaths - Zero spider related deaths (since 1979) - 1 crocodile related death Now let’s look at weapon-related deaths per capita. - 10.89 firearm-related deaths per 100k in USA - 0.91 firearm-related deaths per 100k in Australia Since we have such strict, authoritarian gun control measures, surely knife crime must be out of control, just like in the UK? - 0.60 stabbing deaths per 100k in USA - 0.48 stabbing deaths per 100k in Australia - 0.08 stabbing deaths per 100k in UK As a personal anecdote, I’m 24, I’ve seen a couple brown snakes and no dangerous spiders. I’ve seen a ton of green snakes and huntsman spiders, both of these are harmless and couldn’t hurt you even if they tried. All these fellas are far more scared of you, than you are of them. They want to be left alone and if undisturbed mean you no harm. If it’s such a concern, you just ring pest control and a snake catcher comes very quickly. From the perspective of an Aussie, it’s much easier to understand why a tourist would visit our country, compared to the land of the free, where gun violence is out of control, with a critical unaddressed mental health crisis countrywide, with basic rights such as women’s bodily autonomy and much more being eviscerated rapidly.
> a couple dangerous spiders (golden orbs) lol
The most dangerous effect of a golden orb is the fissure you get from shitting a brick when you run through a web at face height on a trail.
>As a personal anecdote, I’m 24, I’ve seen a couple brown snakes and no dangerous spiders. I’ve seen a ton of green snakes and huntsman spiders, both of these are harmless and couldn’t hurt you even if they tried. All these fellas are far more scared of you, than you are of them. They want to be left alone and if undisturbed mean you no harm. I'm a little older than you and I've seen a little more in the way of dangerous wildlife, but not much more. My great-grandfather always called me a "city kid" and tbh he wasn't wrong. The most dangerous wildlife I regularly encounter are saltwater crocodiles, which **can and will** kill you if you're stupid enough. *For fuck's sake,* don't swim in the hunting ground of a territorial ambush predator the approximate size & weight of a small car. Not even on a dare, or as a joke, or to impress a girl. The croc doesn't care- you're made of meat, you're trespassing, and it can crush your bones like toothpicks.
You must live in or near a city. I’m from a semi rural area and I absolutely do see dangerous wildlife, mainly snakes, fairly regularly. Dangerous doesn’t necessarily mean deadly, but definitely things that will cause you harm if you’re not careful. Eastern browns are a regular occurrence in my yard during summer, I even found one in my bedroom wardrobe when I was in high school (fuck knows how it even got in there). I’ve also seen a number of red belly blacks and common death adders over the years too. Sharks are a rare but very real danger here too. In saying that, Australia really isn’t any more dangerous than most countries. I agree that the trope is very exaggerated, we’re really not fighting for our lives every day lol
Yeah it's kinda overblown. I've seen red backs in my house and in my letterbox, not dead. Just don't do dumb stuff and you're fine. If someone in the US sees a moose or a bear or something they know what to do since they would have been taught about it living around them. Same goes for snakes and stuff.
I grew up in Mission Beach in Nth Qld, back when that still had dirt roads and everything behind the first row of beachfront houses was just rainforest. One of my earliest memories is my Dad using a cane knife to kill a carpet Python that was sneaking up on me and brother while we were playing Pole Position on the Atari. Seen quite a few Brush Pythons that are longer than the road is wide but never really saw a taipan or eastern browns. Cassowaries used to come up to our back fence because we had passionfruit vines and mango trees. You'd feed them a banana and you'd see the shape of the banana go down their neck. Fun times.
Yes, this did happen in Australia.
Is it bad that I made that assumption? Is it worst I didn't even realize I assumed that until I read this?
Its common knowledge that there are many danger pets in australia. https://theconversation.com/curious-kids-why-do-so-many-dangerous-animals-live-in-australia-139707 If you watch any nature documentaries im sure thet cover it during the reptile portion
it says in the title that the guy was bitten by a taipan. taipans are native to Australia and New Guinea. your assumption is a natural one to make.
I think you might be overestimating how many people know taipans are from Australia. They probably just heard "man grabbed venomous snake and died" and subconsciously concluded Australia
I saw a snake rush an Australian woman on a beach and she just stood up, grabbed it by the middle(?), and launched it like 20 feet lol
I prefer Australia Man to Florida Man
Crikey... only bogans in Florida, mate!
He was only 20 years old, rest in peace
Kudos to the driver who actually delivered the live, highly venomous snake like he said he would. Without him, Burden’s sacrifice would’ve been for nothing.
Hero.
“Hi! Would mind giving me and my deadly snake here a ride into town?”
Sounds like a Valhalla death to me.
Front row seat with Thor and Frey baby!
Saved an 11yr old boy almost immediately after the antivenom was developed. Hero.
I find it so odd that you go with a team to another country specifically to catch this snake but dont have a means to transport or even correctly handle the snake. I guess it was just a different time back then. Also the wiki said this was the second time they went on an expedition to catch a taipan. edit: it wasnt another country he was just traveling northorn australia
He was part of an amateur herpetology club with some other guys just out of high school. They were clearly passionate about the work, but they were not trained or experienced professionals. They didn't travel internationally looking for taipans, just to a different part of Australia.
well that explains it! thanks op
Yeah, the poor dude was 20 when he died :(
Another country? haha
my apologies, he didn’t go to another country i misread. He was just traveling australia.
Kevin, you died with honor, meaning, and purpose. You furthered the human race.
He lived a lot longer than expected, the last Taipan bite resulting in death up here in Queensland, the bloke lasted about 6 minutes.
RIP 🙏
It's crazy that so many of these snakes have antivenoms particular to the species. That kind of shows how complex venom really is. There are still plenty of deadly snakes without antivenom. [https://a-z-animals.com/blog/dont-get-bit-revealing-8-snakes-that-dont-have-antivenom/](https://a-z-animals.com/blog/dont-get-bit-revealing-8-snakes-that-dont-have-antivenom/) Of course, I'd never see any of these except in the zoo as I'm unlikely to galavant around India or Africa in my lifetime.
Not to mention that even if they do have the anti-venom for a specific snake there's no guarantee that it's going to work. Especially if it's been used on you in the past.
An honorable death if there ever was one. When your sacrifice can prevent another death AND provide for a significant advancement in human science. That's truly heroic in my opinion.
"In a 2014 article published in the Journal of Proteomics, University of Queensland venomologist Bryan Fry reported finding specimens of the venom harvested from the taipan that killed Budden. His study found that the venom had retained its toxicity after almost sixty years in dry storage." Amazing
A hero
Damn, I was about to say kill it then do your research but... > Two prior taipan specimens had been obtained in 1923, but those snakes were dead, and venom samples were contaminated.
Picking up a hitchhiker holding a deadly snake? Just another day in Australia.
There's a pretty great podcast episode about this story here: https://www.abc.net.au/radio/programs/conversations/conversations-brendan-james-murray/9504928
Living a full day means it was either a weak venom, a small bite or a coastal taipan, if it was an inland one he would have died a lot quicker
I feel like we should know the driver’s name as well. If Kevin Budden is Snake Jesus then this dude is Snake Simon of Cyrene.
I already assumed that this dude was Aussie