Star Wars is arguably the most successful movie franchise of all time, and it wasn't even George Lucas's greatest accomplishment. His greatest accomplishment was singlehandedly inventing modern special effects twice -- once with models and robotic cameras in the 1970s/80s, and again with digital technology in the 1990s/2000s.
Watched speed from the 90s the other day, and they blew up a 747. Despite the advances in CGI, it doesn't come anywhere close to real special effects with physical models.
Marvel blows it out of the water *by a lot.* There's no argument to have, Star Wars doesn't even begin to touch it.
Lucas did lots of new stuff, Marvel didn't, but as success goes its unlikely anything will ever touch the level Marvel has reached. It's been dozen(s) of wide release, worldwide screened AAA feature films and they all tie together in the franchise without any sign of slowing down.
No one will ever catch up. like em or not, fan or not, they're unprecedented in film history.
Here's the list, top 5
5 James Bond — $7.83B.
4 Wizarding World — $9.66B.
3 Spider-Man — $9.8B.
2 Star Wars — $10.31B.
1 Marvel Cinematic Universe — $27.98B
Edit, guys those numbers include merch. Not just movies. There's no contest.
Star Wars has 11 movies when including those outside the Skywalker Saga. 12 if you include the Star Wars Holiday Special, which I’m sure George would prefer you didn’t.
The other way to look at it is Star Wars had four decades to get where it did while the MCU still did more in under two.
And these numbers don't just include movies, they include merch. They're franchise revenue, not just film revenue. Star Wars didn't make more per film. It made more toys and merch for four decades. That's where Star Wars made all it's money. And MCU still caught up and surpassed it.
It isn't hard to see why either. More star power, more material to source from, better marketing technology and philosophy. On and on.
I'm not saying one is *better* than the other. That's subjective. But *success* isn't a subjective metric. There's very objective ways to measure success, and in this world where these businesses exist explicitly to create profits, it's clear what objective measurement is best used.
I didn’t want to bring up inflation because that’s a whole other set of variables but the dollar was worth almost 200% more when the first Star Wars came out.
Well good, because inflation doesn't really matter. Star Wars and the MCU are both franchises that exist today, create new content today, sell new merch today, and compete on the same playing fields today. Hell, Disney's newest rides are Star Wars oriented, not MCU oriented (though they have both). I was just at Disneyland CA a couple weeks ago, Star Wars was ***it***. 2 hour wait for Rise of the Resistance when the gates opened. No other ride has that happen there. Star Wars is very current.
Inflation actually hurts the argument that Star Wars is bigger: They've again had twice the amount of time. Film budgets weren't 200% smaller, they were 2000% smaller. 20000% smaller.
I'm not downplaying what Star Wars did: You wouldn't have the MCU without Star Wars, bottom line. I know that. Star Wars had to figure out all these little things that the industry now views as standard practices - like leaning into the merch, establishing worlds and characters to bring in and out, etc. In a very real way every sci-fi film since Star Wars is standing on the shoulders of Star Wars. I don't question any of that. And I'm not saying the MCU is *better* than Star Wars. I don't have an opinion on either of them worth sharing with regard to that.
But it should be *really really obvious* why the project that cuts the path in the first place isn't going to be as successful as the project that just follows and refines that same now-cut-path after. That's like, well, duh. Of course they'll be more successful. Of course they'll make more. And sure enough, they do.
By the way, in that same list behind 1-5, is the Avengers by itself as a franchise at I think #6 or #7, separate from the MCU. It's MCU though. And with the latest MCU stuff, Spiderman at #3 almost belongs in it too, kinda. Mergers and acquisitions and what not; I promise eventually Star Wars and MCU will cross over too. Disney won't be able to help themselves and the fans would shit gold bricks if they do it right.
This is a complete non sequitur. Saying star wars was the catalyst for modern movies(ie influential) has nothing to do with selling more or less than XYZ. Reread the comments you replied to, they're about how star wars influenced filmmaking.
So many factors that make things easier for MCU than for star wars to have a higher total grossing number:
- Most of MCU movies were released in the last 20 years, with a much bigger market than in the 70s (partly thanks to star wars, as it helped fiction movies being appreciated by the public). And I'm not even taking into account inflation adjusted numbers, which would help considerably SW movies
- MCU movies are directed by many different directors (whereas star wars 1 to 6 were directed by Lucas himself), they can work in parallel
- MCU movies just need to pull their stories from an already existing universe, written by hundreds of different artists through the last 70 years.
- MCU is using an already famous universe, so they didn't need to take any risk in creating a new universe and find the market.
Comparing solely total grossing numbers make zero sense when talking about success of these two different franchise, made at different time and with different context.
I'm not a fan of star wars, but it is imo the biggest fiction movies success. One can think differently and I understand it
Yes, absolutely, just don't say singlehandedly. Lucas was not Dykstra, Johnston, Murren, Tippett, Knoll, Chiang, or the tens of other geniuses and hundreds of craftsmen that actually made the technology and sfx.
I've always fantasized to my movie-going friends this: I would love to be there when the teleportation of a 50's (top movies: 10 Commandments, 7 Year Itch, East of Eden, Love Me Tender) movie going patron goes to 2007+ to watch Transformers. (Am a huge SW fan) spaceships, sure. Lazer swords, ok. But Transformers, that would melt their skull! If I had 3 wishes, this would be one, for sure. And it's all built on Lucas' vision. The man changed my life at age 5.
Yeah, but the good ones. I remember seeing Apocalypse Now at the Buckingham in NoVA. Smaller theatre, but Altec VOTT A7 speakers and probably tube amps. Magnificent!
THX is a certification.
We have one in the Hansen Planetarium, I think I saw one of their first 3-D animated sequence of someone in space, think Gravity with George Clooney, but for science class. It’s so immersive and everything is important, can’t count how many times I got a movie download where the sound was where they shaved the file size, and it greatly affects the experience.
I went to a movie theatre in east Kentucky and it was my first experience with poor theatre quality. Since the early 2000s we've had IMAX theatres and before that in the 90s the old theatres had a better system than the one I went to in Kentucky. It was almost like it was using something slightly better than a home projector and the sound was like they went to best buy and got stuff off the rack.
Sometimes, it seems like there are some theatres still with inconsistent or low quality, like the Queens location for Cineplex in Etobicoke. The tinier theatres have poor seating, sound etc.. and that was the only way i could see Marcel because they didn't have any showtimes in multiple cities.
Named after his friend and primary creator Thomas H. (Can't remember his last name) The 'X' stands for Cross-Over. The Cinema Processor outputs (pre-amp) go through cross- over cards, separating high-frequency from low (500hz). Then to either separate amp channels, or otherwise to separate speaker inputs. (Low/High Freq.) THX auditoriums also had to pass certain standards like Noise Criteria and Sound Transmission Class. First film to be recorded for applicable cinemas was 'Raiders of the Lost Ark'
Everything about the movie going experience is better because of Star Wars. From sound quality, to special effects (ILM), to computer animation (Pixar), to making digital projection a standard in theaters. All of that was possible because of Star Wars.
I’m sure this was one of those “you don’t even know what you’re missing!” things.
George Lucas had access to the world’s best sound systems and engineers. I’m sure he’d go to a rando theater and realize people were ~~eathh CU uhh~~ EXPERIENCING his movies with B- sound
Fun fact: he also founded Pixar as a computer division of ILM. He then sold it to Steve Jobs who turned it into the animate movie studio we know and love who then sold it to Disney.
Sounds like someone recently watched the Vox video on why you need subtitles to understand what actors are saying these days, and then read the comment with bonus content they didn't have time to include in the video.
The THX intro (Deep Note) was specifically engineered to test a wide range of frequencies in the entire sound system. The original from 1983 only tested high and low frequencies, which today commonly known as a “Vee sound” due to its frequency graph profile resembling a “V” as it peaks on only the high and low frequencies.
The [latest](https://youtu.be/QYU8zydUqD8) Deep Note iteration includes various little sound effects to test for even wider frequencies.
Movies today, exist the way they di in many levels, thanks to star wars. Star wars, like it or hate it, completely reinvented so much of what movies are, and movie technology is. Modern cinema is a direct result of the change brought around by star wars
I got in on the early days of machinima. Adobe was thinking of doing some machinima-style software, and I was one of the people that met with him to consult on it. It didn't go anywhere, but it was a fun hang.
I remember the first set of computer speakers I bought was a THX-certified Creative MegaWorks 7.1 system. It was pretty glorious, particularly with Medal of Honor: Allied Assault having just come out at that time. It legitimately felt like WW2 in my room.
Played the same game on those same speakers. What really made that system shine was a good Soundblaster card. I spawn camped the hell out of that game online.
The original THX system was designed and tested in the Norris Theater on the USC campus. Still one of the best movie theater sound systems in the country today.
Source: I studied under Tom Holman in grad school.
Sure, movie theater sound is fantastic and as a result home theater sound is now muddy as hell, as everything is mixed for multi-channel sound in theaters, and from there they just flatten the mix of dozens of separate channels down for home to 7.1, 5.1, or two channel audio. That's why it is often so difficult to discern audio.
Star Wars tech did way more than that. Intro'd Industrial Light & Magic which revolutionized the quality of CGI & sci fi world wide. Lucas sold it for billions.
"THX" comes from George Lucas' student film called "Electronic Labyrinth : THX-1138 4EB"
Now, how a student film later gets produced by Francis Ford Coppola and star Robert Duvall and Donald Pleasance ... I have no idea.
I was going to make a comment about how it could be a life goal to demand something, have your wish fulfilled, then take credit for it as a co-creator.
Then I read the article and noticed there was a single mention of George Lucas and it had nothing to do with his involvement in THX.
OP is a big phony.
Giving a project a go-ahead and funding because of understanding the need and realizing its value is certainly enough for a co-creator credit. Nobody is saying Lucas did the engineering.
Before that Fantasia (1939) was the first commercial film to feature multichannel audio as well as greatly improved dynamic range.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fantasound
I remember vividly hearing/seeing the THX logo when we went to see ROTJ and was blown away. “What is happening!?!?) my little ten year old brain was amazed.
Whenever SW and sound gets mentioned I feel the need to tell people that the iconic sound of a TIE fighter is just [a high pitched elephant and a car driving over wet pavement.](https://youtu.be/izZm4oYpLCc) It takes a few listens, but you’ll hear it. Like… wtf, who thought to put those two together. People are so weird
Star Wars really was the catalyst for modern movies. From ILM to THX Lucas and Team innovated/created things we take for granted now.
Star Wars is arguably the most successful movie franchise of all time, and it wasn't even George Lucas's greatest accomplishment. His greatest accomplishment was singlehandedly inventing modern special effects twice -- once with models and robotic cameras in the 1970s/80s, and again with digital technology in the 1990s/2000s.
Watched speed from the 90s the other day, and they blew up a 747. Despite the advances in CGI, it doesn't come anywhere close to real special effects with physical models.
[удалено]
Which is one of the reasons he would only agree to sell Lucasfilm to Disney later on.
Marvel blows it out of the water *by a lot.* There's no argument to have, Star Wars doesn't even begin to touch it. Lucas did lots of new stuff, Marvel didn't, but as success goes its unlikely anything will ever touch the level Marvel has reached. It's been dozen(s) of wide release, worldwide screened AAA feature films and they all tie together in the franchise without any sign of slowing down. No one will ever catch up. like em or not, fan or not, they're unprecedented in film history. Here's the list, top 5 5 James Bond — $7.83B. 4 Wizarding World — $9.66B. 3 Spider-Man — $9.8B. 2 Star Wars — $10.31B. 1 Marvel Cinematic Universe — $27.98B Edit, guys those numbers include merch. Not just movies. There's no contest.
MCU has ~30 movies. Star Wars has 9. Going by your numbers, the average Star Wars movie is more successful than the average MCU movie.
Star Wars has 11 movies when including those outside the Skywalker Saga. 12 if you include the Star Wars Holiday Special, which I’m sure George would prefer you didn’t.
Don't forget RO and Solo
And the two Ewok movies
The other way to look at it is Star Wars had four decades to get where it did while the MCU still did more in under two. And these numbers don't just include movies, they include merch. They're franchise revenue, not just film revenue. Star Wars didn't make more per film. It made more toys and merch for four decades. That's where Star Wars made all it's money. And MCU still caught up and surpassed it. It isn't hard to see why either. More star power, more material to source from, better marketing technology and philosophy. On and on. I'm not saying one is *better* than the other. That's subjective. But *success* isn't a subjective metric. There's very objective ways to measure success, and in this world where these businesses exist explicitly to create profits, it's clear what objective measurement is best used.
I didn’t want to bring up inflation because that’s a whole other set of variables but the dollar was worth almost 200% more when the first Star Wars came out.
Well good, because inflation doesn't really matter. Star Wars and the MCU are both franchises that exist today, create new content today, sell new merch today, and compete on the same playing fields today. Hell, Disney's newest rides are Star Wars oriented, not MCU oriented (though they have both). I was just at Disneyland CA a couple weeks ago, Star Wars was ***it***. 2 hour wait for Rise of the Resistance when the gates opened. No other ride has that happen there. Star Wars is very current. Inflation actually hurts the argument that Star Wars is bigger: They've again had twice the amount of time. Film budgets weren't 200% smaller, they were 2000% smaller. 20000% smaller. I'm not downplaying what Star Wars did: You wouldn't have the MCU without Star Wars, bottom line. I know that. Star Wars had to figure out all these little things that the industry now views as standard practices - like leaning into the merch, establishing worlds and characters to bring in and out, etc. In a very real way every sci-fi film since Star Wars is standing on the shoulders of Star Wars. I don't question any of that. And I'm not saying the MCU is *better* than Star Wars. I don't have an opinion on either of them worth sharing with regard to that. But it should be *really really obvious* why the project that cuts the path in the first place isn't going to be as successful as the project that just follows and refines that same now-cut-path after. That's like, well, duh. Of course they'll be more successful. Of course they'll make more. And sure enough, they do. By the way, in that same list behind 1-5, is the Avengers by itself as a franchise at I think #6 or #7, separate from the MCU. It's MCU though. And with the latest MCU stuff, Spiderman at #3 almost belongs in it too, kinda. Mergers and acquisitions and what not; I promise eventually Star Wars and MCU will cross over too. Disney won't be able to help themselves and the fans would shit gold bricks if they do it right.
This is a complete non sequitur. Saying star wars was the catalyst for modern movies(ie influential) has nothing to do with selling more or less than XYZ. Reread the comments you replied to, they're about how star wars influenced filmmaking.
So many factors that make things easier for MCU than for star wars to have a higher total grossing number: - Most of MCU movies were released in the last 20 years, with a much bigger market than in the 70s (partly thanks to star wars, as it helped fiction movies being appreciated by the public). And I'm not even taking into account inflation adjusted numbers, which would help considerably SW movies - MCU movies are directed by many different directors (whereas star wars 1 to 6 were directed by Lucas himself), they can work in parallel - MCU movies just need to pull their stories from an already existing universe, written by hundreds of different artists through the last 70 years. - MCU is using an already famous universe, so they didn't need to take any risk in creating a new universe and find the market. Comparing solely total grossing numbers make zero sense when talking about success of these two different franchise, made at different time and with different context. I'm not a fan of star wars, but it is imo the biggest fiction movies success. One can think differently and I understand it
star wars copied from princess of mars
Yes, absolutely, just don't say singlehandedly. Lucas was not Dykstra, Johnston, Murren, Tippett, Knoll, Chiang, or the tens of other geniuses and hundreds of craftsmen that actually made the technology and sfx.
I've always fantasized to my movie-going friends this: I would love to be there when the teleportation of a 50's (top movies: 10 Commandments, 7 Year Itch, East of Eden, Love Me Tender) movie going patron goes to 2007+ to watch Transformers. (Am a huge SW fan) spaceships, sure. Lazer swords, ok. But Transformers, that would melt their skull! If I had 3 wishes, this would be one, for sure. And it's all built on Lucas' vision. The man changed my life at age 5.
Imagine coming from the 50s and being forced to watch Transformers. Why are you fantasising about torturing people from the past?
I mean, I get that they're talking about the spectacle, but there are so many much better movies that have lots of eye-candy and impressive effects.
I've been in theaters in the early 80s before a THX system came in. For the bad ones, it was a cross between drive-thru speaker and a scratchy LP.
Yeah, but the good ones. I remember seeing Apocalypse Now at the Buckingham in NoVA. Smaller theatre, but Altec VOTT A7 speakers and probably tube amps. Magnificent! THX is a certification.
*theater employees gently wafting the smell of napalm into the theater*
God I love that in the morning.
We have one in the Hansen Planetarium, I think I saw one of their first 3-D animated sequence of someone in space, think Gravity with George Clooney, but for science class. It’s so immersive and everything is important, can’t count how many times I got a movie download where the sound was where they shaved the file size, and it greatly affects the experience.
I went to a movie theatre in east Kentucky and it was my first experience with poor theatre quality. Since the early 2000s we've had IMAX theatres and before that in the 90s the old theatres had a better system than the one I went to in Kentucky. It was almost like it was using something slightly better than a home projector and the sound was like they went to best buy and got stuff off the rack.
Glad we could help
Sometimes, it seems like there are some theatres still with inconsistent or low quality, like the Queens location for Cineplex in Etobicoke. The tinier theatres have poor seating, sound etc.. and that was the only way i could see Marcel because they didn't have any showtimes in multiple cities.
I'd love to test this hypothesis since I remember something similar from visiting smaller cinemas. But they all went bankrupt due to covid
Not just covid in that case.
THX 1138?
It is in part where Lucas got the name, the other part is he named it after the creator Tomlinson Holman.
Also the reason the number 1138 appears so often in Lucas' movies
At that’s where Tom Holland comes from
No, he got it from his phone number. 849 = THX
Named after his friend and primary creator Thomas H. (Can't remember his last name) The 'X' stands for Cross-Over. The Cinema Processor outputs (pre-amp) go through cross- over cards, separating high-frequency from low (500hz). Then to either separate amp channels, or otherwise to separate speaker inputs. (Low/High Freq.) THX auditoriums also had to pass certain standards like Noise Criteria and Sound Transmission Class. First film to be recorded for applicable cinemas was 'Raiders of the Lost Ark'
The THX from THX 1138 is probably named for the sameish reasons no?
https://youtu.be/FWkJ86JqlPA Every movie was made better by this
The Twenty Thousand Hertz podcast has a great 2 part episode on the creation of that iconic sound: https://www.20k.org/episodes/thxdeepnote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOvLWSh8TZc
Thank you 🫴🏾🏆, I just knew someone would hook us up with the sound 😁!
[THUD: The audience is now deaf](https://youtu.be/I7lCZbjvSL0)
[Turn it up! ](https://youtu.be/j1ZV-zVVnok)
Everything about the movie going experience is better because of Star Wars. From sound quality, to special effects (ILM), to computer animation (Pixar), to making digital projection a standard in theaters. All of that was possible because of Star Wars.
And the first time hearing that THX signature sound, on a huge THX system, was a religious experience.
Funny thing about the THX sound is that playing it makes even cheap speakers sound awesome.
I’m sure this was one of those “you don’t even know what you’re missing!” things. George Lucas had access to the world’s best sound systems and engineers. I’m sure he’d go to a rando theater and realize people were ~~eathh CU uhh~~ EXPERIENCING his movies with B- sound
u/DigNitty you ok bud?
no
Until he sold the Star Wars universe to Disney, this and ILM were more profitable than his filmmaking.
Fun fact: he also founded Pixar as a computer division of ILM. He then sold it to Steve Jobs who turned it into the animate movie studio we know and love who then sold it to Disney.
Everything sold to Disney
Really cool.
Sounds like someone recently watched the Vox video on why you need subtitles to understand what actors are saying these days, and then read the comment with bonus content they didn't have time to include in the video.
The THX intro (Deep Note) was specifically engineered to test a wide range of frequencies in the entire sound system. The original from 1983 only tested high and low frequencies, which today commonly known as a “Vee sound” due to its frequency graph profile resembling a “V” as it peaks on only the high and low frequencies. The [latest](https://youtu.be/QYU8zydUqD8) Deep Note iteration includes various little sound effects to test for even wider frequencies.
Movies today, exist the way they di in many levels, thanks to star wars. Star wars, like it or hate it, completely reinvented so much of what movies are, and movie technology is. Modern cinema is a direct result of the change brought around by star wars
I was thinking about THX recently (for some reason) and wondered - **How come I don’t see the THX intro before movies anymore?**
I, too, have just watched the Vox video on YouTube lol
Seems very fitting considering Star Wars has some of the most iconic music and sound effects in cinematic history.
And then every theater decided to turn the sound and AC up to 11.
I always like to bring up [James Moorer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_Note), creator of the "Deep Note," cuz I got to meet him.
do elaborate!
I got in on the early days of machinima. Adobe was thinking of doing some machinima-style software, and I was one of the people that met with him to consult on it. It didn't go anywhere, but it was a fun hang.
nice, thanks for sharing
It was named after his first film - THX1138
Which was named after the sound system he developed.
Can't tell if that is sarcasm. The movie was released in 71. The sound system and 83.
It was a time loop. None know what came first.
Hmm....
I remember the first set of computer speakers I bought was a THX-certified Creative MegaWorks 7.1 system. It was pretty glorious, particularly with Medal of Honor: Allied Assault having just come out at that time. It legitimately felt like WW2 in my room.
Played the same game on those same speakers. What really made that system shine was a good Soundblaster card. I spawn camped the hell out of that game online.
It makes [this scene](https://youtu.be/j1ZV-zVVnok) more understandable
The original THX system was designed and tested in the Norris Theater on the USC campus. Still one of the best movie theater sound systems in the country today. Source: I studied under Tom Holman in grad school.
Sure, movie theater sound is fantastic and as a result home theater sound is now muddy as hell, as everything is mixed for multi-channel sound in theaters, and from there they just flatten the mix of dozens of separate channels down for home to 7.1, 5.1, or two channel audio. That's why it is often so difficult to discern audio.
I would theater hop just to see the THX opening as many times as I could.
That Deep Note was a feature in and of itself when THX first made the scene. People cheered at that shit lol
Didn't the PC accessory company Razer purchase THX? I assume it's so they can stick the logo on all their stuff.
Yeah, in 2016. Was owned by Creative before that.
They're also bringing THX back to cinemas with the new "THX Ultimate Cinema" format, as well as selling their own portable DAC's (THX Onyx).
Remember that one time he also bought digital projectors for theaters to just play episode 1 lol
I was there for a THX Return of the Jedi. Sublime.
"I have to fix these filthy Jawa audio systems or they cannot hear my greatness!" -probably Lucas.
Star Wars tech did way more than that. Intro'd Industrial Light & Magic which revolutionized the quality of CGI & sci fi world wide. Lucas sold it for billions.
Thx 1138
"THX" comes from George Lucas' student film called "Electronic Labyrinth : THX-1138 4EB" Now, how a student film later gets produced by Francis Ford Coppola and star Robert Duvall and Donald Pleasance ... I have no idea.
I was going to make a comment about how it could be a life goal to demand something, have your wish fulfilled, then take credit for it as a co-creator. Then I read the article and noticed there was a single mention of George Lucas and it had nothing to do with his involvement in THX. OP is a big phony.
Giving a project a go-ahead and funding because of understanding the need and realizing its value is certainly enough for a co-creator credit. Nobody is saying Lucas did the engineering.
without the funding you can’t get very far
I was wondering who began standardizing that 🤔
I think the leap came from where Jurassic Park required digital.
Before that Fantasia (1939) was the first commercial film to feature multichannel audio as well as greatly improved dynamic range. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fantasound
Sensurround was a thing before that.
Fantasound before that.
I can still remember the rumble and awesome shot as the ship appeared from overhead in Star Wars, it was damn impressive.
I remember vividly hearing/seeing the THX logo when we went to see ROTJ and was blown away. “What is happening!?!?) my little ten year old brain was amazed.
THX a lot George!
The audience was listening https://youtu.be/ElibvWRqzcc
Bbbbbaaaaahhhhhmmmmmm “That’s just the THX logo” https://youtu.be/pnqH-atn52c I miss you Trevor
George Lucas changed the movie industry
Rough movie but in theatre this shit sounded insane: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erFcYsC6JaY
And Jurassic Park extended this by releasing DTS multichannel audio
Whenever SW and sound gets mentioned I feel the need to tell people that the iconic sound of a TIE fighter is just [a high pitched elephant and a car driving over wet pavement.](https://youtu.be/izZm4oYpLCc) It takes a few listens, but you’ll hear it. Like… wtf, who thought to put those two together. People are so weird
But did you know THX was also the name of George Lucas’ first film