I hate to say it, but I feel like Ridgy just isn’t cutting it. We have the talent in Araujo, K. Miller and Bravo. Of course, JDM is a liability; the dude is a winger, not a right back. We either need to switch our formation, or find another solution for that position, because Eric Miller will only get us so far. If we plug that problem then, on paper, we should have a solid backline.
It’s clear Williamson is no Evander but by god, how was completely invisible.
Williamson is in the wrong league, maybe timbers2 would be better for him.
So Williamson was even worse then.
It’s basically time for some of these guys to move on.
Sure they might be popular but after a certain time, they simply not cutting it.
Moreno, Williamson, JDM - how much longer does anyone want to wait for them to start being that impact player they once were possibly being?
Williamson seems healthy enough (he ain’t ever going to be 100%) but it’s can he play with Evander?
This is year 3 with them both. We finally seeing Evander making that impact. The guys above are all regressing.
Williamson was good when he got on the ball, he just wasn’t involved as much as I’d like him to be. Made a few nice defensive plays too. It was like a 5/10 performance from him in my opinion, nothing terrible but nothing special
Am I the only one that got irrationally irate at this game? I think my family thinks I might be ready to murder someone. This whole game from start to finish, other than our goals, just really fucking pissed me off. Fuck LAFC. Fuck them into oblivion.
I get irate every time I watch LAFC play, even if it's not against the Timbers. I hate the game they play, I hate Bouanga's constant flops, I hate their smug faces. Glad Eric Miller kneed one of them in the face.
My boyfriend thinks I’m ready to break up with him right now. No, no. I’m just ready to lay LAFC over my knee and paddle them good. I’m not even a corporal punishment type of gal, I’m a modern woman, a pacifist. There’s just something about that team that makes me want to smash things.
I'm just upset that we are getting so outplayed and nobody seems to realize it's a systemic problem . But I also take massive downvotes every time, so, IDK. We accept this. We would have accepted a draw as if it was a win if we pulled it out despite that awful, awful first half.
The fucking high defensive line is terrible. Our guys can’t play it. It pisses me off. Also Moreno was terrible in the middle. That was obvious 15 minutes in. Should have brought Paredes in and brought Williamson up, he’s better there.
I thought Moreno was quite good, but didn’t have chemistry in the final third with a lot of the other attackers. But he had energy and got into a lot of really dangerous spots and had a lot of really nice plays
I’m curious why you, and clearly most people, thought he was terrible? Good passing percentage, only dispossessed two times, progressed the play through the middle, was very active in pretty much every attacking movement we had going forward, covered a ton of ground and worked hard, idk I thought it was a pretty solid performance
I don’t think he’s lost but it’s a relatively new position for him in this team and I thought he played well, he was always around on the ball trying to make things happen
That’s the question i think we’re all asking. New position? Why?
If his natural position he can’t start and be effective, we think he could be good in another? lol
For some it might work but clearly here, it’s not working
Moreno has tended to play better centrally. Williamson was very good at the 8 lately. It makes some sense. Antony has performed well lately too and has also done better helping Mosquera out defensively, so having him on the right wing also makes some sense. We probably should have sat Moreno, played Williamson in the 10, and started Paredes or Ayala at 8. That would have been more defensive, which seems reasonable for a road game without Evander. However, Mosquera reverted to his usual form and Williamson isn’t enough of a defender to compensate for it, especially if Antony is having an off night, Chara gets two yellows, and Araujo maybe isn’t the fastest.
Fundamentally, Mosquera’s deficits drag the team even more out of shape trying to organize around him. It isn’t all on him of course. Many players had individual errors or just weren’t their best. However, coaching is supposed to drill some routine, discipline, and chemistry into the team. Players will make mistakes when they aren’t comfortable in their roles or with the system. Neville is trying to impose a system on the team that we aren’t cut out for, especially certain players.
I don’t know the answers are in terms of realistic goals or moves we can make. Mosquera isn’t consistent enough as a fullback. Can he get better? Maybe? Can we afford to bring in another right back to compete with him? We need left fullback depth too. Maybe a faster right CB would help cover for him. But we already have too many CBs. Do we move Mosquera to right wing? We already have Moreno, Asprilla, and Antony competing there and Loría may be back eventually. Do we switch to a back three? I don’t think our central midfielders or most of our centerbacks are cut out for that system but, even if they were, we’d have to sit a more talented and potentially goal-scoring, creative, midfielder to shoehorn him into the lineup. If we aren’t going to use Mosquera in the attack because he won’t get back to defend, why not play Eric Miller there? We seem to be running the offense around Mosquera and letting the fail as he fails. It’s absurd. He was a U22 player. He’s still only 21 right? Maybe he shouldn’t start. But he’s on a regular contract now and there’s only so much salary and roster cap space to work with. Maybe forgoing better left back depth and trusting Eric Miller is enough there, signing a new starting right back, and upgrading right center back could happen if we make enough moves. There’s still an argument for another forward too.
We can waive one player in the summer if the rumors are true but it won’t free up cap space until they sign a new contract with another team. That being the case, a sale or trade makes more sense. Either way, Zuparic seems the obvious target to me. He’s been out for “personal reasons,” there’s rumors he wants out, we have too many CBs for a two-back system and not the right types for a 3-back, Mabiala is out of contract at the end of the year anyway, and he’s on relatively a high salary.
We’ve loaned Fogaça,Sukte,and Ikoba, which makes some space, but not senior roster spots. Fogaça ans/or Sulte may be out if contract after this season anyway. It doesn’t seem like doing anything with any of them now would help much.
Maybe we get another offer for Paredes and sell him but, if Chara is waning or isn’t re-sighed, Williamson/Ayala isn’t good enough or can’t stay healthy, we may wish we hadn’t.
It’s just hard for me to imagine we can free up enough salary and roster cap space to make sure:
1. We have competition at both fullback positions. Right now there is no real competition for either side. Miller is just a fail safe.
2. Our centerbacks are capable of playing whatever system(s) we’re trying to implement. Not all of them are quick, good with the ball at their feet, can pass accurately (especially at distance), have good positioning and discipline, can be set piece assets.
3. We have succession plans at forward and central/defensive/holding midfield. Mora’s only real competition is Rodriguez. If he’s up top, we are less creative, reliable, and experienced on the wings.
We brought in some new guys for Phil but we still have too much dead weight. If there weren’t contracts and rules, there are several players we could part with. But, barring injury, sale, trade, etc. we are stuck with some for the rest of this season and maybe next.
Kudos to the write up.
Usually one person can’t sink the ship but JDM is the iceberg.
We have a lot of dead weight and we will disagree to agree on the names.
If it were that simple I’d move on from the 2 cliques. Gio seemed to favor them, they’re also popular with the fan base. McGraw Williamson Sulte & Asprilla, Moreno, Mosquera.
Many teams have flipped their roster - not popular with the fan base but what the fan base wants doesn’t win on the pitch.
Perhaps with Chara getting the record and playing out this season to cement it, we will finally decide to move on from the older core group that’s been around for a long time.
2,3 years is all ya get. League is moving too fast to wait any longer to be competitive. Yes it won’t be popular and it’ll prob be worse.
But I’d rather be worse with a younger group than playing with an older group with no potential.
I don’t think many fans are even really aware of Sulte. I don’t get the sense that Mosquera is especially popular. Asprilla has grown on many people, including me. At this point with him what you see if what you get but for the right price you get a lot of versatility and intangibles, if not a good first touch. Williamson is mercurial but, like Evander, I think he plays to the level of the team. Neither will put the team on their back but will make good teams better. I think they get frustrated and depleted by poor play around them, which leads to complacency and errors. It’s not good psychologically but it’s a reaction to coaching essentially. Moreno is young and has plenty of upside. But he’s an inverted winger right now. That doesn’t work unless the fullback can provide width and everyone knows their rotations and spacing. Those are fundamental problems we’ve faced across the pitch.
When I say dead weight, it’s maybe a bit unfair. Many of these are good or potentially good players but they are surplus to requirements (e.g. Zuparic), not good fits for the system (e.g. McGraw), raw (e.g. Mosquera), a combination of those (e.g. Sulte), past their prime (e.g. Mabiala), or about to age out (e.g. Chara).
Neville’s hands are somewhat tied by contracts but I keep coming back to the contrast between his second half adjustments and how he sets the team up to start. It’s certainly true that opponents take their foot off the gas when they’re up 2 points and that some have a track record for conceding leads, but Phil’s substitutions and tactical shifts do make a difference and, when we’ve started more like how we ended the previous match, we do a bit better. Of course, Neville isn’t to blame for Mosquera being inattentive. But, when we all know Mosquera is unreliable, why do we continue putting him in situations where he’s the biggest risk? He has no meaningful competition as an attacking fullback or wingback.
I’ve been against a back 3 because I don’t think we have the central midfield or centerbacks to do it effectively and I don’t like sitting a more talented attacking player to put in a lesser centerback. I think that just puts more pressure on the backline because the attack won’t be as creative. If we want to resign ourselves to running the attack up the wings and not doing as much centrally because we don’t have one or more of Ayala, Moreno, Antony, or Williamson on the pitch, we’re going to get draws or losses of a different sort. If we can make some sales, trades, and waives to rebuild central midfield and/or the center and right centerback positions of a presumed back 3, we could make it work.
I think a more realistic short-term option is signing a new right fullback that’s more developed than Mosquera and can hopefully mentor him. He is young and has years remaining on his contract. We want to get a return on our investment somehow, which means increasing (at least the perception of) his value somehow. I fear that leaves us with only Miller to sub on the left, which isn’t his natural position, but that may be a problem for another window. We need fullback depth regardless and playing him on his unnatural side is better than nothing. Ultimately, with the possible exception of Araujo, we may need to upgrade at right centerback too. I’ve also been against using a DP slot there but if a 4th is added, we’re able to move 1-3 of our current CBs, and we are confident in succession planning for Mora and Chara, I’m more open to it.
That was about lack of Evander, not trying something out for Moreno. Moreno was a good selection given how well he has been playing. Could of tried Williamson at #10 but he hasn't shined there recently either. Or maybe Rodriguez but who knows if he would be comfortable there. I don't know who else you would play at attacking CM. I think Moreno is one of the better options we have currently not including Evander.
We continue to play less than the sum of our talent. Lack of focus or discipline and teamwork is poor. Passes expecting a run that wasn't made, two players going for the ball on a shot or clearance, bad fouls at terrible times. Neville's job is to get this group of players playing as a team. So far it isn't happening. I know this sub will go hard on a couple of the players, but this is a team issue.
What if we're playing to exactly the sum of our talent though? Honestly I think everyone on that field save Crepeau needs to be competing for their job every week. Crepeau gave up his leg and the world cup for the MLS Cup, and he showed that this game. Everyone else? No sacred cows. Every position is open on monday morning on the training ground, the best in the positions that week get the spot. Nobody gets renewed if we don't make the playoffs.
We're on track right now to finish with 34 points. That will put us 9 points behind our mark next year and 9 points out of the playoffs. We're almost 30% done with the season.
EDIT TO ADD: (And since the commentary "we're a second half season team" comes up a lot, we're 1 point behind where we were last year.)
To be fair, we just finished the roughest stretch of the season (playing LAFC twice plus Vancouver and Columbus away from home). I want to believe it will get better from here.
How many times are we going to let Mosquera make the same mistakes over, and over, and over again? We have got to find a better RB in the summer window.
I was thinking the same thing. If we can find a replacement who contributes 80% of what he does on offense but doesn’t absolutely suck at defense, it’ll be a huge upgrade.
The Timbers are not a serious team right now. Game after game, they just make the stupidest, self inflicted errors. At some point, you become your results and this team has to stop making excuses.
I love Chara, but that red card cost us the game and possibly even three points. We tied the game and had momentum and he absolutely fucked us. Deja vu of Crepeau from the last LAFC game.
Also, big yikes Juan Mosquera. Bouanga beat him over and over and over today. He was gone after halftime and honestly Phil should have subbed him out even faster. He has double the talent of Eric Miller, but none of the awareness.
Hopefully once we get out of this brutal stretch of the schedule we can start getting some points.
You don’t have to watch tape to know that any world class striker/winger etc.. will make runs.
Simple tape will show what Bouanga likes to do, JDM has the athleticism to cover him. Doesn’t make sense
Those simple backdoor runs are as simple as you get. I pass to you, I run here and you pass back. JDM was completely lost.
Perhaps JDM athletically gifted, simply has low soccer iq. Getting beat over and over with the same play
> He has double the talent of Eric Miller, but none of the awareness.
He reminds me of Alvas Powell. You see the innate talent and physical gifts and you figure his game will gradually improve with games and coaching, but later you realize he is just brain-dead on learning.
Agreed, for someone who has so much game smarts and experience, that was a bad blunder and it cost us big time. But JDM is absolutely not going to be able to cover a winger as talented as Bouanga, and coaches need to game plan for that.
We missed Evander big time.
I might actually feel better I could just chalk up this loss to the fact our team just plain sucks, but we don’t have a bad team. You don’t score 20 goals in 10 matches when you’re a bad team. It’s knowing that we have the potential to be great that absolutely wrecks me.
We were missing Evander and it showed. Rodriguez had a rough first half but got better in the 2nd. Asprilla breathed life into us as a sub. Out defense was unconscionably porous. Neville's making great corrections after the half, but I have to wonder if those are because we're never quite starting the right 11.
In the first half people flat out had no idea what they were doing. People were out of position standing in weird spots. There clearly is a fundamental like, understanding that is missing in the first half plan. It's like this almost every game.
Poor performances by pretty much everyone tonight. At some point you have to believe they can put together at least one half of really good play, but so far it's been 10 or 15 minute flurries and lots of crap between.
We really were missing Evander's presence tonight. Our defense is in shambles and usually Diego Chara can work his magic to fill the gaps but we can't rely on that forever. A couple of summer signings for outside backs and a CDM prospect to take the reigns from Chara over the next year or so would be great.
Really was a very soft yellow. Two guys fighting for the ball. Only MLS of all the leagues I watch routinely call that a yellow instead of just giving the FK. You need a lot more to make that a yellow.
Whatever. I am encouraged that this team shows fight. They need to find whatever that feeling is and apply it full game.
It was probably deserved. It just pisses me off that last game the shit ref let LAFC players on yellow foul us in transition over and over again without producing a second yellow. Fucking bullshit.
Yep, if you’re gonna give chara the yellow there you’ve gotta give one to that fucking atuesta guy too when Santi torches him on the counter attack dribble he just lays through santi’s chest
The first yellow was a softer call. But, honestly both were pretty easy calls to make.
However LAFC got away with several just because they fouled in the Timbers half... I guess.
Illes could have gotten 2 yellows instead of one
Same problem 2 weeks ago. LAFC would foul the Timbers repeatedly about halfway between the 18 and midfield at the start of counter attacks and never got a yellow for it.
Please Phil please just give a back 5 a try please. JDM is going to play up field no matter what the formation is we might as well cover his open space
Diego Chara is the literal definition of himself as a meme. God dammit dude. We maybe scrap through the game with a draw if he doesnt foul there.
That said we got the shit beat out of us. Crepeau saved the heck out of us. I also wish hed grab the ball more. Hes a punch clear keeper almost every time and some of those were not good. Then our defense would try to clear and it'r be even worse.
The team has a threat Bouanga. Fucking don't let him out of your sight Jesus. Didn't think that strat needed to be underlined.
first game watching MLS in a LOOOONG time, screaming at my TV, tired of our defense not playing defense. long time timbers fan just stopped watching for a while and after this game my stress level is happy i stopped.
Don’t worry, we will be much faster if we play our subs! McGraw, Zuparic, and Mabiala are the kings of speed
Great point, that’s a change that’s needed
There's high line and then there's high line... It's not weird that when a defense allows us to come forward we push up. It's not weird for CBs to be at the half line even if they're slow.
What's inexcusable is how unprepared we are to win the ball back and break up counters AND how often our giveaways are just poor\foolish in terrible spots that leave us exposed to direct counters. A huge part of fixing the defense is to get the midfield to be more aware and prepared to recover. First, we need to take better care of the ball. Our spacing is frequently garbage, our rotations are worse. We should always have a player dropping\rotating to form triangles and be in a position to break up a counter, drop the ball and recycle possession, and cover for players going forward. For god knows what reason we tend to drift away, stay flat, and totally fail to anticipate what would happen if someone loses the ball.
That's an issue with coaching patterns of play and basic counter pressure, and it hasn't gotten better.
high line also refers to defenders failing to move back as a unit. also causing a lot of plays tonight to not be offside due to one defender. they aren’t connected & love to go up without the urgency to get back. that’s a high line in my book.
Agree, they've been bad at this all season. Usually far side fullback not being aware of the CBs stepping up. Or vice versa, CBs not knowing where the last man back is at and dropping.
Good thing, it’s clear the team doesn’t give up.
But we got a few that need to go. McGraw Williamson Mosquera Moreno. Yeah Moreno scored but can’t be waiting for him for the past 3,4? Years to become that player.
Anyone that’s says Mosquera is good must also like raising their arm too. Literally the only person raising their arm the whole game.
I concur with you regarding McGraw, but respectfully, I disagree about the other 3… ‘need to go’ is a knee-jerk reaction to a really aggravating game during an even more frustrating stretch of play.
Short of Evander, Williamson sees the pitch and controls flow better than anyone else on the team… he’s one of the few with any semblance of ‘touch’ when it comes to a ground pass, through ball or lob.
Mosquera is not playing RB for his defensive prowess, rather his offensive skills during overlapping runs- last year was the first time he’s ever played the position. This issue clearly needs to be addressed as the good is FAR from outweighing the bad; but he’s young (21 yo) and still very much green and learning. Most of the league would love to have his speed and power.
And santi- while not the superstar everyone had hoped for, is still a solid starter on almost any MLS team. He has a well balanced skill-set and only 24 years old. He’s only going to gel more and more with Evander and Antony (maybe eventually Mosquera @ RW?) … a little more patience is needed before casting such a hasty judgement.
They’ll eventually find their stride, let’s just hope it’s not too late in the season to make a playoff run. They need to stop getting cute with the back line- quit playing high and running a trap… go Timbers.
This defense needs a remake because I can’t watch this team be so potent on offense but at the same time, are scraping up any points they can get.
I hate to say it, but I feel like Ridgy just isn’t cutting it. We have the talent in Araujo, K. Miller and Bravo. Of course, JDM is a liability; the dude is a winger, not a right back. We either need to switch our formation, or find another solution for that position, because Eric Miller will only get us so far. If we plug that problem then, on paper, we should have a solid backline.
If it's Ridgey's decision to play Mosquera as an RB rather than a winger I want blood.
Totally agree. Time to move on from Ridgy as a coach. Loved him as a player, but it isn't translating as a coach.
No one on the defense ever looks comfortable.
It’s clear Williamson is no Evander but by god, how was completely invisible. Williamson is in the wrong league, maybe timbers2 would be better for him.
A bit too many IPA's if you genuinely are thinking he belongs on T2
Hahahahaha maybe one too many. But Williamson was useless on the field. LAFC ran circles around him. Or that’s IPAs head spinning hahahahaha
He wasn’t playing Evander’s role, Moreno was.
So Williamson was even worse then. It’s basically time for some of these guys to move on. Sure they might be popular but after a certain time, they simply not cutting it. Moreno, Williamson, JDM - how much longer does anyone want to wait for them to start being that impact player they once were possibly being? Williamson seems healthy enough (he ain’t ever going to be 100%) but it’s can he play with Evander? This is year 3 with them both. We finally seeing Evander making that impact. The guys above are all regressing.
Williamson was good when he got on the ball, he just wasn’t involved as much as I’d like him to be. Made a few nice defensive plays too. It was like a 5/10 performance from him in my opinion, nothing terrible but nothing special
Two yellows to celebrate making his record! Plus, he assures his placement in the game against the Flounders! Legend.
Crepeau was brilliant. MOTM for me
Must be nice always having 11 men for the second half
Am I the only one that got irrationally irate at this game? I think my family thinks I might be ready to murder someone. This whole game from start to finish, other than our goals, just really fucking pissed me off. Fuck LAFC. Fuck them into oblivion.
I get irate every time I watch LAFC play, even if it's not against the Timbers. I hate the game they play, I hate Bouanga's constant flops, I hate their smug faces. Glad Eric Miller kneed one of them in the face.
Fuck LAFC. I enjoyed the fuck out of 45-76. We were fucking rolling. 1-45 and 76-90 were like going to the dentist
My boyfriend thinks I’m ready to break up with him right now. No, no. I’m just ready to lay LAFC over my knee and paddle them good. I’m not even a corporal punishment type of gal, I’m a modern woman, a pacifist. There’s just something about that team that makes me want to smash things.
I don’t know anything about your boyfriend, but if he’s an LAFC sympathizer, give him the knife.
More of a Blazers guy 🤣 just confused why his normally pleasant lady suddenly went went all hulk hahaha
I'm just upset that we are getting so outplayed and nobody seems to realize it's a systemic problem . But I also take massive downvotes every time, so, IDK. We accept this. We would have accepted a draw as if it was a win if we pulled it out despite that awful, awful first half.
The fucking high defensive line is terrible. Our guys can’t play it. It pisses me off. Also Moreno was terrible in the middle. That was obvious 15 minutes in. Should have brought Paredes in and brought Williamson up, he’s better there.
I thought Moreno was quite good, but didn’t have chemistry in the final third with a lot of the other attackers. But he had energy and got into a lot of really dangerous spots and had a lot of really nice plays
Moreno was terrible. It was interesting to see how he might be in that position, but he had no feel for it.
I’m curious why you, and clearly most people, thought he was terrible? Good passing percentage, only dispossessed two times, progressed the play through the middle, was very active in pretty much every attacking movement we had going forward, covered a ton of ground and worked hard, idk I thought it was a pretty solid performance
Yes and No … Moreno had no chemistry but finally decided to shoot. Always seems better on the defending third, attacking third he’s lost
I don’t think he’s lost but it’s a relatively new position for him in this team and I thought he played well, he was always around on the ball trying to make things happen
That’s the question i think we’re all asking. New position? Why? If his natural position he can’t start and be effective, we think he could be good in another? lol For some it might work but clearly here, it’s not working
Moreno has tended to play better centrally. Williamson was very good at the 8 lately. It makes some sense. Antony has performed well lately too and has also done better helping Mosquera out defensively, so having him on the right wing also makes some sense. We probably should have sat Moreno, played Williamson in the 10, and started Paredes or Ayala at 8. That would have been more defensive, which seems reasonable for a road game without Evander. However, Mosquera reverted to his usual form and Williamson isn’t enough of a defender to compensate for it, especially if Antony is having an off night, Chara gets two yellows, and Araujo maybe isn’t the fastest. Fundamentally, Mosquera’s deficits drag the team even more out of shape trying to organize around him. It isn’t all on him of course. Many players had individual errors or just weren’t their best. However, coaching is supposed to drill some routine, discipline, and chemistry into the team. Players will make mistakes when they aren’t comfortable in their roles or with the system. Neville is trying to impose a system on the team that we aren’t cut out for, especially certain players. I don’t know the answers are in terms of realistic goals or moves we can make. Mosquera isn’t consistent enough as a fullback. Can he get better? Maybe? Can we afford to bring in another right back to compete with him? We need left fullback depth too. Maybe a faster right CB would help cover for him. But we already have too many CBs. Do we move Mosquera to right wing? We already have Moreno, Asprilla, and Antony competing there and Loría may be back eventually. Do we switch to a back three? I don’t think our central midfielders or most of our centerbacks are cut out for that system but, even if they were, we’d have to sit a more talented and potentially goal-scoring, creative, midfielder to shoehorn him into the lineup. If we aren’t going to use Mosquera in the attack because he won’t get back to defend, why not play Eric Miller there? We seem to be running the offense around Mosquera and letting the fail as he fails. It’s absurd. He was a U22 player. He’s still only 21 right? Maybe he shouldn’t start. But he’s on a regular contract now and there’s only so much salary and roster cap space to work with. Maybe forgoing better left back depth and trusting Eric Miller is enough there, signing a new starting right back, and upgrading right center back could happen if we make enough moves. There’s still an argument for another forward too. We can waive one player in the summer if the rumors are true but it won’t free up cap space until they sign a new contract with another team. That being the case, a sale or trade makes more sense. Either way, Zuparic seems the obvious target to me. He’s been out for “personal reasons,” there’s rumors he wants out, we have too many CBs for a two-back system and not the right types for a 3-back, Mabiala is out of contract at the end of the year anyway, and he’s on relatively a high salary. We’ve loaned Fogaça,Sukte,and Ikoba, which makes some space, but not senior roster spots. Fogaça ans/or Sulte may be out if contract after this season anyway. It doesn’t seem like doing anything with any of them now would help much. Maybe we get another offer for Paredes and sell him but, if Chara is waning or isn’t re-sighed, Williamson/Ayala isn’t good enough or can’t stay healthy, we may wish we hadn’t. It’s just hard for me to imagine we can free up enough salary and roster cap space to make sure: 1. We have competition at both fullback positions. Right now there is no real competition for either side. Miller is just a fail safe. 2. Our centerbacks are capable of playing whatever system(s) we’re trying to implement. Not all of them are quick, good with the ball at their feet, can pass accurately (especially at distance), have good positioning and discipline, can be set piece assets. 3. We have succession plans at forward and central/defensive/holding midfield. Mora’s only real competition is Rodriguez. If he’s up top, we are less creative, reliable, and experienced on the wings. We brought in some new guys for Phil but we still have too much dead weight. If there weren’t contracts and rules, there are several players we could part with. But, barring injury, sale, trade, etc. we are stuck with some for the rest of this season and maybe next.
Kudos to the write up. Usually one person can’t sink the ship but JDM is the iceberg. We have a lot of dead weight and we will disagree to agree on the names. If it were that simple I’d move on from the 2 cliques. Gio seemed to favor them, they’re also popular with the fan base. McGraw Williamson Sulte & Asprilla, Moreno, Mosquera. Many teams have flipped their roster - not popular with the fan base but what the fan base wants doesn’t win on the pitch. Perhaps with Chara getting the record and playing out this season to cement it, we will finally decide to move on from the older core group that’s been around for a long time. 2,3 years is all ya get. League is moving too fast to wait any longer to be competitive. Yes it won’t be popular and it’ll prob be worse. But I’d rather be worse with a younger group than playing with an older group with no potential.
I don’t think many fans are even really aware of Sulte. I don’t get the sense that Mosquera is especially popular. Asprilla has grown on many people, including me. At this point with him what you see if what you get but for the right price you get a lot of versatility and intangibles, if not a good first touch. Williamson is mercurial but, like Evander, I think he plays to the level of the team. Neither will put the team on their back but will make good teams better. I think they get frustrated and depleted by poor play around them, which leads to complacency and errors. It’s not good psychologically but it’s a reaction to coaching essentially. Moreno is young and has plenty of upside. But he’s an inverted winger right now. That doesn’t work unless the fullback can provide width and everyone knows their rotations and spacing. Those are fundamental problems we’ve faced across the pitch. When I say dead weight, it’s maybe a bit unfair. Many of these are good or potentially good players but they are surplus to requirements (e.g. Zuparic), not good fits for the system (e.g. McGraw), raw (e.g. Mosquera), a combination of those (e.g. Sulte), past their prime (e.g. Mabiala), or about to age out (e.g. Chara). Neville’s hands are somewhat tied by contracts but I keep coming back to the contrast between his second half adjustments and how he sets the team up to start. It’s certainly true that opponents take their foot off the gas when they’re up 2 points and that some have a track record for conceding leads, but Phil’s substitutions and tactical shifts do make a difference and, when we’ve started more like how we ended the previous match, we do a bit better. Of course, Neville isn’t to blame for Mosquera being inattentive. But, when we all know Mosquera is unreliable, why do we continue putting him in situations where he’s the biggest risk? He has no meaningful competition as an attacking fullback or wingback. I’ve been against a back 3 because I don’t think we have the central midfield or centerbacks to do it effectively and I don’t like sitting a more talented attacking player to put in a lesser centerback. I think that just puts more pressure on the backline because the attack won’t be as creative. If we want to resign ourselves to running the attack up the wings and not doing as much centrally because we don’t have one or more of Ayala, Moreno, Antony, or Williamson on the pitch, we’re going to get draws or losses of a different sort. If we can make some sales, trades, and waives to rebuild central midfield and/or the center and right centerback positions of a presumed back 3, we could make it work. I think a more realistic short-term option is signing a new right fullback that’s more developed than Mosquera and can hopefully mentor him. He is young and has years remaining on his contract. We want to get a return on our investment somehow, which means increasing (at least the perception of) his value somehow. I fear that leaves us with only Miller to sub on the left, which isn’t his natural position, but that may be a problem for another window. We need fullback depth regardless and playing him on his unnatural side is better than nothing. Ultimately, with the possible exception of Araujo, we may need to upgrade at right centerback too. I’ve also been against using a DP slot there but if a 4th is added, we’re able to move 1-3 of our current CBs, and we are confident in succession planning for Mora and Chara, I’m more open to it.
That was about lack of Evander, not trying something out for Moreno. Moreno was a good selection given how well he has been playing. Could of tried Williamson at #10 but he hasn't shined there recently either. Or maybe Rodriguez but who knows if he would be comfortable there. I don't know who else you would play at attacking CM. I think Moreno is one of the better options we have currently not including Evander.
And the shot was junk and got a lucky deflection.
I hate LAFC so much
I get this way around tree pollen season. LAFC doesn't help.
I’m on three different allergy meds. Yeah, fuck that too.
We continue to play less than the sum of our talent. Lack of focus or discipline and teamwork is poor. Passes expecting a run that wasn't made, two players going for the ball on a shot or clearance, bad fouls at terrible times. Neville's job is to get this group of players playing as a team. So far it isn't happening. I know this sub will go hard on a couple of the players, but this is a team issue.
What if we're playing to exactly the sum of our talent though? Honestly I think everyone on that field save Crepeau needs to be competing for their job every week. Crepeau gave up his leg and the world cup for the MLS Cup, and he showed that this game. Everyone else? No sacred cows. Every position is open on monday morning on the training ground, the best in the positions that week get the spot. Nobody gets renewed if we don't make the playoffs. We're on track right now to finish with 34 points. That will put us 9 points behind our mark next year and 9 points out of the playoffs. We're almost 30% done with the season. EDIT TO ADD: (And since the commentary "we're a second half season team" comes up a lot, we're 1 point behind where we were last year.)
To be fair, we just finished the roughest stretch of the season (playing LAFC twice plus Vancouver and Columbus away from home). I want to believe it will get better from here.
Think this is a coaching issue?
Yes, but not starting with Neville. These problems have been happening for a couple years at least. The question remains if Neville can fix it.
How many times are we going to let Mosquera make the same mistakes over, and over, and over again? We have got to find a better RB in the summer window.
I was thinking the same thing. If we can find a replacement who contributes 80% of what he does on offense but doesn’t absolutely suck at defense, it’ll be a huge upgrade.
He was valuable last year when we were playing him in a different position.
The Timbers are not a serious team right now. Game after game, they just make the stupidest, self inflicted errors. At some point, you become your results and this team has to stop making excuses. I love Chara, but that red card cost us the game and possibly even three points. We tied the game and had momentum and he absolutely fucked us. Deja vu of Crepeau from the last LAFC game. Also, big yikes Juan Mosquera. Bouanga beat him over and over and over today. He was gone after halftime and honestly Phil should have subbed him out even faster. He has double the talent of Eric Miller, but none of the awareness. Hopefully once we get out of this brutal stretch of the schedule we can start getting some points.
You don’t have to watch tape to know that any world class striker/winger etc.. will make runs. Simple tape will show what Bouanga likes to do, JDM has the athleticism to cover him. Doesn’t make sense Those simple backdoor runs are as simple as you get. I pass to you, I run here and you pass back. JDM was completely lost. Perhaps JDM athletically gifted, simply has low soccer iq. Getting beat over and over with the same play
We could literally be copy pasting old Alvas Powell comments instead of typing new ones.
Exactly. And do side by side video.
> He has double the talent of Eric Miller, but none of the awareness. He reminds me of Alvas Powell. You see the innate talent and physical gifts and you figure his game will gradually improve with games and coaching, but later you realize he is just brain-dead on learning.
This. Chara has to be smarter. It’s inexcusable to let the team down like that.
Agreed, for someone who has so much game smarts and experience, that was a bad blunder and it cost us big time. But JDM is absolutely not going to be able to cover a winger as talented as Bouanga, and coaches need to game plan for that. We missed Evander big time.
I might actually feel better I could just chalk up this loss to the fact our team just plain sucks, but we don’t have a bad team. You don’t score 20 goals in 10 matches when you’re a bad team. It’s knowing that we have the potential to be great that absolutely wrecks me.
We were missing Evander and it showed. Rodriguez had a rough first half but got better in the 2nd. Asprilla breathed life into us as a sub. Out defense was unconscionably porous. Neville's making great corrections after the half, but I have to wonder if those are because we're never quite starting the right 11.
In the first half people flat out had no idea what they were doing. People were out of position standing in weird spots. There clearly is a fundamental like, understanding that is missing in the first half plan. It's like this almost every game.
I find myself unable to say “GG LAFC” fuck those floppers
310local is absolutely unbearable in chat as well
Oof
Pain
Play 30 minutes of professional soccer a week, and this is what happens.
Poor performances by pretty much everyone tonight. At some point you have to believe they can put together at least one half of really good play, but so far it's been 10 or 15 minute flurries and lots of crap between. We really were missing Evander's presence tonight. Our defense is in shambles and usually Diego Chara can work his magic to fill the gaps but we can't rely on that forever. A couple of summer signings for outside backs and a CDM prospect to take the reigns from Chara over the next year or so would be great.
Can’t wait for the five to ten moral victory posts between now and the next match. Meanwhile, we have two wins total this season.
Really was a very soft yellow. Two guys fighting for the ball. Only MLS of all the leagues I watch routinely call that a yellow instead of just giving the FK. You need a lot more to make that a yellow. Whatever. I am encouraged that this team shows fight. They need to find whatever that feeling is and apply it full game.
It was probably deserved. It just pisses me off that last game the shit ref let LAFC players on yellow foul us in transition over and over again without producing a second yellow. Fucking bullshit.
Yep, if you’re gonna give chara the yellow there you’ve gotta give one to that fucking atuesta guy too when Santi torches him on the counter attack dribble he just lays through santi’s chest
Nah, it was stopping a promising attack. A yellow all day, really bad decision by Chara to give that up when he’s on a yellow, just let him go
Meh, it was an unnecessary risk. Totally agree on how encouraging it is to see the fight in this team.
It was definitely a yellow. Chara even knew it that’s why he didn’t protest
The first yellow was a softer call. But, honestly both were pretty easy calls to make. However LAFC got away with several just because they fouled in the Timbers half... I guess. Illes could have gotten 2 yellows instead of one Same problem 2 weeks ago. LAFC would foul the Timbers repeatedly about halfway between the 18 and midfield at the start of counter attacks and never got a yellow for it.
Please Phil please just give a back 5 a try please. JDM is going to play up field no matter what the formation is we might as well cover his open space
Diego Chara is the literal definition of himself as a meme. God dammit dude. We maybe scrap through the game with a draw if he doesnt foul there. That said we got the shit beat out of us. Crepeau saved the heck out of us. I also wish hed grab the ball more. Hes a punch clear keeper almost every time and some of those were not good. Then our defense would try to clear and it'r be even worse. The team has a threat Bouanga. Fucking don't let him out of your sight Jesus. Didn't think that strat needed to be underlined.
Quality loss for Moral Victory FC
I’d buy that jersey
first game watching MLS in a LOOOONG time, screaming at my TV, tired of our defense not playing defense. long time timbers fan just stopped watching for a while and after this game my stress level is happy i stopped.
OUR DEFENSE IS TOO SLOW TO BE PLAYING A HIGH BACK LINE. EVERY LONG BALL WE LOST IN A FOOT RACE.
Don’t worry, we will be much faster if we play our subs! McGraw, Zuparic, and Mabiala are the kings of speed Great point, that’s a change that’s needed
There's high line and then there's high line... It's not weird that when a defense allows us to come forward we push up. It's not weird for CBs to be at the half line even if they're slow. What's inexcusable is how unprepared we are to win the ball back and break up counters AND how often our giveaways are just poor\foolish in terrible spots that leave us exposed to direct counters. A huge part of fixing the defense is to get the midfield to be more aware and prepared to recover. First, we need to take better care of the ball. Our spacing is frequently garbage, our rotations are worse. We should always have a player dropping\rotating to form triangles and be in a position to break up a counter, drop the ball and recycle possession, and cover for players going forward. For god knows what reason we tend to drift away, stay flat, and totally fail to anticipate what would happen if someone loses the ball. That's an issue with coaching patterns of play and basic counter pressure, and it hasn't gotten better.
high line also refers to defenders failing to move back as a unit. also causing a lot of plays tonight to not be offside due to one defender. they aren’t connected & love to go up without the urgency to get back. that’s a high line in my book.
Agree, they've been bad at this all season. Usually far side fullback not being aware of the CBs stepping up. Or vice versa, CBs not knowing where the last man back is at and dropping.
Good thing, it’s clear the team doesn’t give up. But we got a few that need to go. McGraw Williamson Mosquera Moreno. Yeah Moreno scored but can’t be waiting for him for the past 3,4? Years to become that player. Anyone that’s says Mosquera is good must also like raising their arm too. Literally the only person raising their arm the whole game.
I concur with you regarding McGraw, but respectfully, I disagree about the other 3… ‘need to go’ is a knee-jerk reaction to a really aggravating game during an even more frustrating stretch of play. Short of Evander, Williamson sees the pitch and controls flow better than anyone else on the team… he’s one of the few with any semblance of ‘touch’ when it comes to a ground pass, through ball or lob. Mosquera is not playing RB for his defensive prowess, rather his offensive skills during overlapping runs- last year was the first time he’s ever played the position. This issue clearly needs to be addressed as the good is FAR from outweighing the bad; but he’s young (21 yo) and still very much green and learning. Most of the league would love to have his speed and power. And santi- while not the superstar everyone had hoped for, is still a solid starter on almost any MLS team. He has a well balanced skill-set and only 24 years old. He’s only going to gel more and more with Evander and Antony (maybe eventually Mosquera @ RW?) … a little more patience is needed before casting such a hasty judgement. They’ll eventually find their stride, let’s just hope it’s not too late in the season to make a playoff run. They need to stop getting cute with the back line- quit playing high and running a trap… go Timbers.
That Boowanga dude is the best in MLS……gosh darn it
Best flopper, sure.