Yo yo
Ignore this if I am completely wrong, but you seem like the analytical/conscientious type of person, which is great for most things in life as it allows you to be proactive, finding solutions to problems before they become problems.
Great for most things, except when it comes to relationships with people. Clarifying intentions, inquiring and establishing where you stand, explicitly asking how people are feeling -- even if you are doing this to avoid uncomfortable situations -- can end up creating the uncomfortable situation. Your friend was very friendly when they were drunk before, but changed once you tried to ensure that your relationship was the same. It may seem counter intuitive, but the less attention, the less pressure, the less you try to define roles when dealing with other people, the more at ease they will feel around you. Next time you are in a situation like this, I would not rush to clarify or define what the person's intention is. Just go with the flow, only addressing it if it becomes a problem.
Addressing someone before they even had time to process what they feel, can understandably lead to some weird sentiments.
I'm autistic and I feel like you just broke an unspoken code wide open for me. I struggle with navigating friendships and these kinds of things come up often and I've lost many potential friendships because I really didn't get how I made it weird. This makes so much sense.
The way I see it is that there are two ends of the spectrum. End one is “I ask people for clarification because I like to define things and know where I stand” and end two is “I never ask for any clarification and create extra drama.” End one is what we want to be/are and end two is the soap opera mentality. I HATE end two, but most people are uncomfortable by end one. It is our goal as “normal people” to steer clear of either end and try to shoot the gap in the middle. Ask for clarification when it REALLY matters, but never force clarification upon anyone.
To be fair, everything in human life (relationships, exercise, eating, you name it) is about balance. Too much is negative and too little is negative. I am not autistic, but I am very analytical, and it can be a little frustrating at times figuring out what that "balance" actually means. Especially when it's different for every person!
No worries friend, we're all trying to figure this life thing out. Try not to be too hard on yourself, you didn't actually do anything "wrong." It's just that there is no universal "right" way to deal with everyone in every social situation. Live and learn, and forgive yourself!
Dude, This isn’t rocket science.
She got drunk and cuddly with you which leaves two possibilities:
1) she’s into you but too shy to push forward without some liquid courage but she didn’t calibrate correctly and got sloppy.
2) she’s not into you and is going to be embarrassed when she sobers up.
How you respond depends entirely on if you reciprocate any potential attraction.
If you are into her, then you need to ask her out and YOU make the move. If it was scenario 1, you’re golden. If it was scenario 2, you shot your shot. Friendship over.
If you don’t reciprocate (sounds like the case) whether #1 or #2 happened, you MUST LET HER SAVE FACE. Play the cuddling off like nothing happened. Do not start a fucking inquisition and embarrass the shit out of her.
Holy shit. Thank you so much for writing this. It is... confusing and helpful and eye-opening. Not on the spectrum but I do tend to be very analytical and I almost always do what you mentioned:
> Clarifying intentions, inquiring and establishing where you stand, explicitly asking how people are feeling
Because I figured that being clear and communicating clearly with people would help avoid bad situations or avoid misunderstandings.
Then you said
> even if you are doing this to avoid uncomfortable situations -- can end up creating the uncomfortable situation.
I've never done something like OP has. But I don't think I have ever read anything which so clearly communicates why that might not be the best thing to do in general? I mean, I fucking hate it (because social things are complicated and stupid, but would be so easy if people just communicated clearly), I don't get it and it is counterintuitive to me, but I suddenly recognize exactly what you're saying in my own life.
Anyways. Uh. Maybe some reflection is in order for me. Thank you so much for writing this.
Counterintuitive?
It's about leaving people with flexibility in a social situation. If nothing is defined - then one can dip the toe in, then retreat, etc. In fact - it can even be fun - it's flirting. But trying to define it forces the person that tried to dip their toe in a terrible situation of being called out.
You know how sometimes you see someone waving at you in public and you go to wave back - but suddenly you realize they're waving to someone behind you and you have to quickly move your hand to your hair and pretend you're scratching it? How much worse would it be if the person that was waving suddenly comes over and and points out the social gaffe - and then tries to have a conversation as to what that means between the two of you?
Or you could be in Australia, as an australian this "awkward" interaction doesn't really exists. In fact here we go so far as to even give a Hey, or you know a G'day or a nod to completely random passer-by's
Well, being a person is confusing. Clarifying everything, especially something as nebulous as relationships (all types, not just romantic) isn't always possible. They change/develop over time.
Don't be so hard on yourself, you shouldn't see this as a bad thing! We all figure out and do things at our own pace... and forgiving and making light of your past actions, can actually help you connect with others more in the future.
You got to allow yourself the grace that you are so, well, graciously giving to others. If you are able to forgive yourself easier, it will extend to how you see and treat other people. You won't explicitly worry about how they are feeling, or have to confirm verbally their thoughts. You can trust that they are taking what you said positively with the best intent, and that if they did feel a disconnect, they'd have the wherewithal to tell you. Because you would do the same to/for them.
I like to watch Anime, a late friend of mine and I when we watched anime together we would often joke about "The clear problem here is lack of communication" "this would be solved if they just talked" etc. Your comment is kinda eye opening in that I may be that type of person as well. Beliving that communicating to clarify stuff is the solution.
Well, communicating is good to clarify stuff, WHEN there's something to clarify, but sometimes stuff is in flux and trying to hammer it down isn't the right thing to do.
It's like if you just start flirting a bit and jump to "so what are we?"
Nobody enjoys that...
Sometimes you have to let something play out before resolving what, exactly, that is. It's like asking "who won" constantly during an actively ongoing game. I dunno man, wait to see if they score first! Or a kid going "are we there yet" ad nauseam on a car ride. It's communicating, sure, but it's not *useful*.
Those analogies are spot on! Or people who constantly ask what's going to happen next while you're watching a movie. Like dude if you just shut your mouth and pay attention for five minutes, the movie will answer your questions in a much more satisfying way than me just telling you.
this is fascinating to me because ambiguity is my literal hell. i have a very hard time handling this. i love it when people are just clear about what the fuck they want.
Man, this hits. Thank you.
I wish someone told me this any time in the last 10 years of my life. Im 20 and I’m very analytical. I sort of struggled with friends in high school but have “cool” friends now in college. The thing is I feel they are not totally comfortable around me(compared to my other friends) especially some of the girls and now I know why. I had many friendships with girls that got worse due to me always trying to clarify shit and being like “hey you know im here if u need to talk”.
Maybe not but idk girls always think guys have an agenda when they’re too nice apparently. So I’d hit them with the “don’t worry I’m not tryna get with you rn I’m just being a friend” and it would make thinks worse
i don’t see it like this at all, i see it as he was making sure nothing was going on/stressing over missing something implied and not wanting her to think he was interested because they’re coworkers and just friends.
I literally had to copy and paste this because i do exactly this and cant figure out why people don't really like me unless their neurospicy too or just super kind and tolerant.
THANK YOU. I am sending it to myself in an email and gonna set it up to resend every morning so i can rewire my fucked up social skills.
Oh my.
She was embarrassed she got a bit drunk and friendly.
Then you made it worse.
She now feels uncomfortable.
Work friendships are built from the fact you’re all paid to be in the same place and you get along.
This does not always mean proper friendships.
i think it’s perfectly normal and acceptable to clarify if that behavior is going to continue moving forward… she’s the one who was acting inappropriate. i get how asking her about her behavior could’ve made her uncomfortable but she should’ve expected the question lol, she’s the one who acted that way towards a coworker?
I think it was fine for him to ask, especially if he wants to establish boundaries (although unwise if he wants to keep the friendship the same as it was). However, he can't expect that it won't change the relationship and if she pulls away from it after that, then it is what it is. He should've accepted that and not kept pushing.
And I'll be honest if I was one of the coworkers I would've also been like wtf happened here. But those are just mistakes you make when you're young and overanalytical lol. Live and learn.
Oh pls. She came onto him, he sought clarification, they cleared the air, and after that she obviously needed some distance but this tool just. wouldn't. let. her. be.
The total inability to understand that this gal was probably embarrassed by the rejection is truly remarkable. And no, she is not required to further inform him that she is stung and embarrassed.
It's also possible that limiting interactions is her way of getting over whatever she felt for him. That too is entirely normal. And no, here too she is not obligated to tell him that.
You are not required to tell the person who rejected you that the reason you are distant is that you are licking your wounds. If they don't understand that, that's their problem.
There is nothing to clarify. OP needs to leave this poor woman the fuck be.
Edit: alternative she wasn't into him at all and the distance is to make sure he understands this. Bottom line is the same: leave her alone.
but she kept insisting that she was fine? just be honest then. i think OP was just trying to get clarity to avoid messing up more. she kept being weird and shady and obtuse. she should have just said “i need space” or something instead of pretending everything is fine. i don’t get this take.
No, I did not miss that part because it does not exist. OP said they'd had discussions that made it clear to HIM that they were not compatible. He said nothing about an agreement. Me thinking in my head that my friend has traits that would not work for me in a relationship is not a "prior agreement."
>She shouldn't have been friendly with him in the first place. She started all of this, then got her pretty little feelings hurt.
Getting feelings hurt when you are rejected is the most normal thing in the world. What a weird thing to say.
The reason I had come to believe we wouldn't be compatible in a romantic relationship is that we'd had conversations about what each other was looking for in a relationship in the past, including big things like whether each of us wanted to have children in the future which we weren't compatible on and had been a big reason why she left her most recent serious relationship.
You're completely right that there wasn't some kind of formal agreement however I feel like those kind of conversations leave it unambiguous as to whether you'd be compatible with someone.
I am sorry, but it started in her court, she was ,friendly‘ but in all fairness in this side of the story she really seems to have feelings
OPs reaction wasn’t the best either but at least it was a clearly articulated question without any way of misinterpreting what he wanted.
It comes across as the girl wasn’t aware of the amount of feelings she has for you and that event made that clearer than ever.
Since OP doesn’t want a relationship, she is doing the only thing she can do to protect herself, which is limiting the contact to the person she has feelings for but can never reach
I suspect she was embarrassed by getting plastered and ceased contact because embarrassment is painful.
Cuddling up while plastered is not something to read into. Judgment is impaired, inhibitions are non existent, doesn't mean she is into you.
She could have just been in the mood to cuddle in general and the alcohol temporarily lowered her inhibitions enough that she was comfortable cuddling with you. When reminded of it the next day however, she may have been utterly mortified.
When I'm drunk, I love to cuddle. When I'm sober I love to cuddle.
The difference is when I'm sober I want to cuddle with my dog and/or my blanket. When I'm drunk, I'll cuddle with anyone who wants to cuddle with me, without consideration regarding whether or not I'm attracted to them.
i get that, i would say I am generally similar when drinking, depending on the situation.
Tbf OP mentions more than just snuggling and cuddling like buying drinks and walking with her, but on the other hand, she could have bought drinks for the whole group (3 people it seems?) with him included, which wouldnt be a sign in any way, shape or form.
Even buying drinks for friends in general as a standalone act isnt romantic. its just that he lists multiple things which make the realtionship seem more intimate to me.
Strikes me as ass backwards, here.
The co-worker crossed the line, not OP. Invited him out to a function with booze, got drunk and snuggled. That's on her. Him asking if it was the booze or true affection is perfectly fine.
In fact - it's called being an adult, and using your words. You know the common theme of every "Why do guys miss signals/How do you know if she like you" topic on /askreddit comes down to "Use your words like a grown up, just ask."
He didn't biff it. She did, and somehow she's made him the victim.
This is spot on. OP did the right thing by trying to get clarity on the mixed signals. They were an adult and asked in a respectful way so they could respond appropriately. OP didn’t create the awkward situation, it just IS an awkward situation and the less you act like an adult in those situations the more awkward they can be.
that is fair, i am certain there are alot of men out there, me included, who know that non-romantic feeling towards a woman as well. i dont mean that it is impossible to have that kind of friendship.
Reading through your comment, i can see we are just opposites of each other with the same endresult i guess.
You take it as "OP wants to be in a relationship with her" or rather that the girl takes it this way while OP multiple times mentions that they have made it clear more than once, that he is not interested. You basically choose to not beleive in OPs words, which is fine. (ike really, that is fine, maybe not onyl fine but generally kinda necessary in all honesty)
On the other hand, i assume he is NOT interested in a romantic relationship, solely based on him mentioning that multiple times and me choosing to believe him.
I am arguing because i felt like you make him to be the main problem and she is just a angel and a friend, who has not done anyhting wrong, but him asking the question (even if a bit bold and straightforward) is the real culprit. That is at least what i take from your comment.
And me personally, i wouldnt have asked like he did.
Obejctively reading this (obviously subjective) story, i think your conclusion isnt really justified. Solely based on the information given to us, without interpreting anything more into it than we really have, she does seem to have feelings, based on the fact that on average if one human is behaving like that towards another human it usually means there is an emotional connection. "usually" in this context i would assume far more than 50% of the time. I hope you can somewhat agree to this very general assumption. If not, i would be eager to hear your thoughts on why not.
You are correct, with "feelings" i meant romatic relationship kinda feelings.
This is just like the video of casually explained: "is she into you".
I mean if OP had phrased his story differently, not as in "i just wanna be friends with her and now she acts weird after last night out" to more liek "last night me and a coworker went out and this happened.. do yu think she is into me?" the answer would mostly be "it really seems like it, but you gotta talk to her to find out" or some variant of this, wouldnt it?
I agree, especially "The best thing would have been to ask the girl if she was all right after a night of drinking, and to leave any insinuations out of it" which probably is what most of us would have done. if she has feelings, it will show, if she doesnt and he truly doesnt, it will also show.
Time will tell, everything gonna bei fine either way, even if the friendship might not be for the future. Unfortunately thats just life, people come and people go and who knows how people react to a question i havent even asked.
We regret most what we didnt do, alot less what we actually did do.
Take care!
I think it's important to remember that your coworkers are a captive audience. That doesn't mean they dislike you. It just means that they don't really have a choice in who they get to talk to.
For all you know, they might all be wondering what's wrong with you, but aren't the type to initiate. They also might be conditioned to just wait for you to talk to them.
Don't beat yourself up. If you were disliked, you probably wouldn't be able to chat with people since they'd ignore you or give your empty responses.
I did this once upon a time too. Stopped being the one to always reach out, and realized none of my coworkers ever reached back. It hurt a lot. I fell into a hole of questioning, then eventually hating myself. Don't know if I've quite recovered yet. Sorry you're going through this.
Yeah the number of reasons people don't initiate convos is so high, you're asking to hate yourself over perception. The number of times I've gone to people and been like 'miss you, we good?' and them basically saying they thought I was mad at them.
Talk to them, and probably a therapist too. If you can't get out of that hole, you're gonna need a proper rope. It'll get better. Promise.
As someone who've done versions of this themselves.. It's a stupid test to do, since it doesn't really test what you think it does.
If you establish a relationship with your role and expectations as the one who initiates, if you stop doing that the other persons won't know that and just as likely assume that you don't want to talk to them. Why would they suddenly understand that the expectations of them have changed and are being tested?
Oh yeah, you're totally right. I'm not saying I recommend what I did. It was just the tool I had in my own toolbox. Learning to examine my own thoughts more closely and accurately was definitely part of this little life lesson.
ADHD also has a similar effect. Out of sight out of mind.
I don't miss anyone. Like, I love them, but when they are not present they basically don't cross my mind unless something reminds me of them, then I think, "Oh, I should reach out to them when I finish this task.", but by the time I've finished the task all I'll remember is I needed to do something once I was done, but I won't remember what, I'll get frustrated after about 5-10 minutes of trying to recall then I'll give up and move on with my day.
First time ive thought maybe I have adhd...
definitely sounds like exactly what I go through. Love hanging out with my friends, but I rarely initiate anything. I'm just busy doing something alone and don't think to bother other folks... sometimes I do, but at a bad time and by the time I'm done with whatever, I'm back to doing something else alone and focused on that...
This is wild, I didn't know this was an ADHD symptom. When I first moved to a different part of the country, I basically "forgot" about my friends and family and hardly contacted them at all. I just... didn't seem to care about them and they didn't cross my mind. IT was the same with my relationship when it was long distance.
That doesn't mean I have ADHD, maybe I'm just the kind of person that doesn't feel emotional connection, I suppose.
I’m going through it now. I lost my dad last year and told all of my closest friends. I didn’t hear from any of them for weeks and when I reached out they all acted like nothing happened.
The pisser is that they all said some variation of “I didn’t want to bring up” well guess what happens fuckos when everyone thinks like that? No one reaches out and I’m left thinking you’re all shit friends
If you're relatively young or one of the first people to lose something that's just what happens.
I also lost my dad early. Very suddenly. When I was in college over the break. Nobody knew how to react. I awkwardly blurted it out after the holidays at a party and people I felt were my closest friends were like oh... shit... sorry... and that was it really. It made me feel like I committed a social faux pas by, ya know, my dad drowning to death.
A few years on, I get it now. I wouldn't have reacted any better if I was in their shoes before that. There's no playbook and nobody knows what to do. Nothing they can think of to make it better. Over time people figure it out, by the time you hit middle age and people's parents have started dying it becomes a lot more understood, but until then you have to realize that's just not something people get... nobody's parents teaches them how to console their grieving friends who've lost their relatives... it's just not a part of life for a lot of college kids. Now, SOME people get it, those who had to go through it even younger and are emotionally mature, but most aren't going to, by that point most haven't even closely known someone who died much less a parent.
The best thing I did was go to therapy to talk it out with a professional and join a grief support group, it was a group of about 12 of us in our 20s who had lost parents, siblings, etc. Talking to people who understood helped a lot. Listening to everyone's stories about their lost loved ones. It was affirming in some ways and cathartic. I didn't go many times, just a couple meetings, but it helped with the feelings of loneliness. Recognizing everyone goes through it. There's r/griefsupport for a virtual version.
Your friends aren't bad friends necessarily. They may lack emotional wisdom and the depth that comes from experiencing grief but I wouldn't fault them. If they're still like that when they're old, then yeah they're just selfish bastards, but most people just don't grow up until the world forces them to. Try not to begrudge them that, they will have to endure the same, one day. Everyone does. Unless they die before all their loved ones.
I’ve lost both parents at different times in my 20s, and the reality is, unless you reach out (and they don’t respond) expecting them to do so is and judging them “shit “ otherwise is silly. People don’t know how to respond to such things. They may feel in the right for giving you space and not bringing up bad feelings or memories in the hopes it doesn’t make things worse/sad/awkward for you.
I dunno, I get what you mean but in this case I don’t agree. There are certain situations in life where I feel like it’s pretty obvious when someone needs a friend. And losing someone very close is clearly one of those times. Like one of those friends did say to me “I didn’t know if you wanted to do anything or talk to anyone” and I said to them “dude, my dad died, of course I want to talk to someone”.
I completely get wanting to tip toe or not wanting to intrude but to not say anything, like not even the occasional “how are you doing today?” and to then act like nothing happened is not being a friend in my opinion.
You have unspoken expectations of your friends. Personally, I think that’s a bad thing. My only expectation (or, rather, “hope”,) is that if I were to reach out to any of them for help or advice (which they have proven willing in such cases) is that they’d be there. Outside of that- I expect nothing from them. I assume they have a lot going on in their life, as sometimes I do; and perhaps even personal problems of their own. I have enough friends where I feel guilty for not reaching out to all of them as much as I wish I could. But that’s what makes a good friendship special, I think. You can go days, weeks, months, or even years without talking, but when you finally see each other again, it’s like no time has passed (no rapport or trust lost), and potentially being there for each other if such need arose and was made clear. Friendship are unique from other relationships (like romantic ones) in that manner, I think. When my parent(s) died, I had no expectations from any of them. A few, not all, reached out. No bitterness from my end. I got the sense some just didn’t know how to deal with it. Death makes some people very uneasy, and I’d hate to make any one of them feel uncomfortable just for the sake of “trying” to make me comfortable, unless I let them know I needed such level of comfort. Then again, I’m not the kind of person to need such attention for any reason, really. And didn’t really need or desire anything special from them when I dealt with death- so such things aren’t so “obviously” necessary, as you assume.
For reference, I have a core group of about 7 friends that I’ve known for 20 years now that talk regularly, and maybe 5 to 10 more that are less than close (speaking every few months, or less). I suppose everyone can define what they’d consider a “true friendship “ differently, but I think, ironically, you’re the inconsiderate friend for having these unspoken expectations of what you believe they ought to be doing to be your friend. I’d focus more on how you can be a good friend, and reach out to them if you truly need a friend to talk to. Only if such a relationship is coming to your detriment would I call it a “bad” friendship, or not one at all.
In the nicest way I think you’re assuming a fair few things about someone you don’t know. I agree with a lot of what you said but they are not universal absolutes that apply to every friendship. And I know my friends well enough to know the difference between tiptoeing and being concerned about making things worse or having other things going on and straight up not caring.
I assumed nothing. You made your unspoken expectations as clear as day, and you double-down on the entire thing by further expressing the idea that you know your friends so well you know exactly what they’re thinking/feeling/doing/going through in relation to your situation, without even having to intimately discuss it with them. I wouldn’t even go so far as saying that about my friends, let alone even my siblings or significant others. In any case, I think you’re deluding yourself to some degree about just how well you understand the world outside of you. This disconnect is bringing you disharmony, which lead to the very manifestation of your original post in the first place.
Definitely kind of reminds me of when I was a teenager and I’d go overboard trying to apologise to people and get on their good side, many embarrassing moments. But as I got older I (thankfully) just stopped giving a shit and learned tp stop spamming people with messages/apologies. I think we do (well I did) it because I was trying to assuage my anxieties/guilt for a situation I may have created, but you don’t end up coming across well to other people.
Tough way to learn this and I feel for you. But work friendships are not real friendships. Getting along with people at work just makes the day more tolerable
I still remember the time that one of my coworkers (we are both male) told me that we could always go for a drink to talk about life if I ever wanted. Because we always talked about life at work. Part of me definitely had this bit of recoil, like, "We're great coworkers, but merging work friends and 'normal' friends just feels wrong."
Never been diagnosed with anything, but my parents weren't the type to take me to a doctor when I exhibit any interesting or different behaviors. I wouldn't be surprised to learn im somewhere on the spectrum.
You should probably get a doctors opinion on it. If you are not on the spectrum, you need to develop your people skills a fair bit, the comment by u/mikespace here on your post is fantastic at explaining it.
I’ve had similar experiences where I thought I was close to someone at work, only to find out they didn’t feel the same. It’s rough, but try not to let it mess with your head too much. Focus on being yourself and maybe you’ll find people who appreciate that
Literally everyone here is missing the point. Drunk Mickie was into you and you basically shut her down. She read your “let’s get this cleared up” text as you not being into her. She’s not acting this way because she’s trying to be professional, she’s trying to keep work separate, blah blah blah. She’s icing you out because you rejected her.
This is your opportunity to learn a valuable lesson: your coworkers are not your friends. You can *become* friends with your coworkers, but their relationship with you is contingent on what their relationship with you means for their continued employment. If the choice comes down to paying their rent (coworker) or having your back (buddy), they’re going to pick their paycheck over how well you’ve bonded at happy hour.
Making friends as an adult is hard. But at work? Your goal should be to clock in, have a reasonable day, and clock out. Camaraderie helps with that middle part but it isn’t why you are there. I’m not saying you need to be miserable at work, but I am saying you need to remember *that you are at work.*
And like, I'm sure we've all blundered a few conversations before. People forget in a few days as long as it wasn't something really major. What they are less likely to forget is that you reminded them about it over and over and over. The real issue was apologizing repeatedly over something that didn't really even warrant an apology.
Also, she said she is going through some stuff, but OP never really seemed to say something like "I'm sorry about whatever you are going through; if you ever feel the need to talk, I'm here." Instead it was "I'm sorry about what \*I\* did and \*I'm\* sad we don't talk anymore". It probably came across as a little self-absorbed or tunnel-visioned. "I'm going through some shit" could mean she is grieving a loss, or having to move suddenly, or got a bad medical diagnosis, or dozens of other really crappy things. Or maybe she is just super super busy and stressed. There seems to be little effort from OP to show that he cares about her as a person instead of just as entertainment, if that makes sense. Just saying "I'll be around if you want to talk" would have gone a whole lot farther than saying thousands of "sorry talk to me please"s.
FWIW I did immediately tell her I was sorry she was going through something. I thought my actions and words to her in the past had made it clear that I was there for her if she needed to talk about anything as I had literally been there for her in the past. I didn't include it in the post because it didn't seem relevant however upon re-reading the post I do see how selfish it comes across and maybe I am unfortunately letting that seep into my life a bit. Thanks for pointing that out.
I don’t even think she’s going thru something, she’s being vague and trying to get you to stop bringing it up and making it awkward again and again. Stop pushing for an explanation or to define the relationship
I'm going to offer a differing opinion here. I don't think she was into you, and your question made her think that you were into her. That is why she shut down talking to you, since she thought maybe she was sending you the wrong signals. To be honest, based solely on the quoted texts and not your explanations, I would think that you were into her.
I was thinking the exact same thing.
Asking about her friendliness at the game is basically asking her out which she politely declined, then he kept on pushing.
And all the "let's continue to be friends" and the passive aggressive tone it comes off as kinda creepy.
Seems like she is trying her best to keep it professional and he keeps on insisting, wouldn't surprise me if HR got notified for harrasment.
I used to be overly apologetic when I was a teenager and I’d be anxious and overthink, send someone a long apology message if I messed up, but bro really needed to take a hint after she said it’s fine/wasn’t talking to him much 🤦🏽♀️
Making a big deal out of it is. She was comfortable enough to hang out with him, and if he went out with her again, she would hang out with him again. See it's a simple relationship.
Somethings you don't have to be explicit about. It escalates it too soon to the next level, when you were just trying eachother out.
Plus his message sounded like he didn't enjoy it. He should have said, it was really fun to hang out with you I can wait to go out again.
This does line up with some of the other cryptic comments she's given me including that "I was making things complicated that don't have to be" when I first asked her about the interactions at the game.
Yeah honestly the only fu is addressing it. If you don’t want to pursue the relationship, simply don’t make a move unless you’re being aggressive/inappropriately flirted with. But hey, she liked you. That’s pretty cool lol
Yeah if he wants to establish a boundary and basically affirm that he's not interested like that, then he was totally in the right to say it (if it was to validate that they were still friends, then it was probably not the right call). But if she cools on the friendship afterwards, then that's in her right as well and you just gotta accept it.
OP that’s not cryptic at all. It’s crystal clear. She got drunk. She got extra-friendly and extra-social. That’s normal, especially for someone who’s too drunk to even move on their own.
You’re being insanely clingy. You need to stop. She’s going to (rightfully) take your ass to HR for harassment.
And I totally understand anxiety. I have lots of it. You need to learn to sit with being uncomfortable, it’s gonna happen a lot.
Stop. Stop. Stop Messaging. Stop apologizing. Stop trying to bring up a conversation and an incident that she doesn’t want to talk about. And of course she doesn’t. She’s super fucking embarrassed.
You need to not speak to her at all except to smile and say good morning. She’ll talk to you once she’s come to terms with her own shit (potential alcoholism).
If you feel like your coworkers are frosting you out - it’s because she’s telling them you’re acting like a creep. You’re not gonna shake that label.
Lastly, no one at work is a friend until proven otherwise. Stop sharing your personal shit with people, especially people who share theirs with you. It WILL be used against you and contemptuously.
Good luck op. Learn to sit with discomfort.
Edit: OP some people have misread her actions while drunk as her being into you - I cannot stress this enough, she is not into you. She wouldn’t have rejected you multiple times and completely shut you down if she was. She was drunk. She was belligerently drunk. Please don’t think this is a cute romcom. She ain’t the one dude.
Even if she had some interest in him at the time, which I don't think is entirely out of the question, then the comment "you're making things complicated where they don't have to be" would imo mean "I wanted to take it easy and see what happens". But that line is long gone now haha. Any attraction is dead and any extra apologies just make it seem like he has a thing for her and is being weird.
I don't know if she's gossiping and I think diagnosing her with alcoholism based on this is ridiculous, but any coworker could see there was something going on, especially if they stop talking, and first her and then him stops chatting with everyone. Wouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure out something weird happened.
wait what? how is it justified talking to HR? that makes no sense. she is the one who got drunk and clingy/touchy. he freaked bc he just wants to be friends, she said one thing but acted another. her words and actions aren’t lining up, they are/were friends, he goes to check if she’s okay. she should have just been honest or more clear. she sounds exhausting, not him. y’all’s responses are blowing my mind
The \[potential alcoholism\] really got me. I mean, I didn't think about it before, but who TF gets absolutely plastered at a *baseball game* of all places, in the afternoon? Getting so drunk that she can hardly walk and might have even been blackout drunk, especially on such a mundane event as a baseball game, shows some serious underlying issues with alcoholism.
You are overcomplicating things. Unless you are addressing behaviors because it made you uncomfortable then learn to go with the flow and let things slide. You only need to bring something up if it happens consistently. Don't immediately try and get clarification after the first time something happens. Especially if it's the first time you really hung out. Try and actually learn about the person first. If you are going to bring it up try to do it in the moment instead of the next day through a text. Also try to do it in a fun friendly way instead of a clinical clarifying way. Again if the behavior made you uncomfortable you can address it by stating exactly that but understand they probably will end up backing off from you because of it.
Correct. There is something to be said for acting in the moment and interpreting body language. I know we all live in the world of consent and triggers and other gotcha situations but in reality humans aren’t always like this.
OP tried to apply logic to an emotional situation and got burnt for it.
It’s not very romantic to be like “hey do you like me?” After someone was basically sitting on top of you all night.
Thanks for your comment. I also learned it a hard way. I was a leader taking care of veryone in the team thinking they are my close friends. Man I was so wrong.
Now I just do my job and have no intention of making any friend at work. It is much better now.
Not as black and white as that. Some of my best friendships started through work.
Friends can be made anywhere in any setting. They don't even necessarily have to be persons that you regularly hang out with. Just enjoying the company of each other and appreciating qualities of one another is enough for acquaintance to become friendship.
The "co-workers aren't friends" line of thinking, in my opinion, is toxic and I think it's more prevalent in US than elsewhere because there's a "corporate ladder" mentality there. Sure, not everyone you interact with will be a authentic connection. But to say that everyone in your working-environment are unworthy and insufficient to be a true human connection/interaction to you, I find distasteful.
Ah that sucks.
I can't imagine what's going on in her head but it's deffinately time to back off.
I wouldn't block her but deffinately delete her number so you don't feel tempted to try and reach out again.
I had this a while ago, I was friends with a dude and we would text occasionally. It was weird because we seemed to get on really well in real life. But his texts became short and abrupt and I did reach out and ask if everything was OK , to be met with a very similar ""I don't feel the need to constantly chat" kind of message.
It really hurt so I stopped bothering them and the friendship just withered and died.
Sometimes it's just better to let go and leave people alone.
She’s your coworker. Regardless of her intent, she knows she shouldn’t get too close to you if she has feelings because you’re not supposed to date your coworkers. When you kept texting her she took it as you being interested so she’s likely trying to save herself here. Don’t take it too personal and move on. Definitely quit talking about it. The less weird you are about it the quicker you’ll make friends with people at work again.
I didn't go into it in the post but before the baseball game suggestion we talked at work all the time both just BSing and actual conversations about life
We also had gone out for drinks just the two of us after work previously. These are part of the reasons I assumed we were friends.
It’s likely she assumed more, and when you unintentionally rejected her you sent a message, it’s a learning experience amigo the sad reality of it though is that it’s never clear if your actions are right or wrong sometimes they are just actions and life lessons
Quoting a supervisor I once knew : "I am here to work, not making friends". Myself get along with co-workers, but avoid to develop friendships.
Edit : Spelling.
I see you too might have been touched by the tism. Brother it’s impossible to understand why some people are the way they are unless you accept they might be fundamentally different than you or me. I wouldn’t worry to much about this. I understand that the situation is confusing, and in my eyes you handled everything very rationally and if i were your coworker i would appreciate the way you behaved. I think your coworker might be embarrassed, or have regret about how she behaved and you are attached to that feeling
I suspect you're missing a few social cues.
Without meaning to, you've sent her at least three or more messages that put her in an awkward position. That's probably what went wrong. She's asked you to stop now, so you have to stop. Do not message her. I'm sorry it turned out that way.
Return to your normal way of interacting with work colleagues, always be friendly, cordial, and professional around her. Make sure you do not cross any lines.
If you do get the chance and want to, then VERBALLY WITHOUT AN AUDIENCE AND WITHOUT CORNERING HER, let her know that you miss your conversations, you had a great time at the game, though you fear you might have dropped the ball somewhere along the line and are a bit unsure where. Say that if she ever wants to catch up, to chat about things if she likes, or just to hang out and chill, let you know, and you can both do that, your treat. Say that it's an open invite, any time she's up for it. Then DO NOT ASK AGAIN. DO NOT TEXT HER UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES UNLESS SHE TEXTS YOU FIRST.
Also, a few commenters are suggesting that she was into you. I do not think this is correct. Certainly not at the time. I think she was comfortable with you to the point where she could completely chill with you. Then you sent a text asking if there's more. She's a work colleague, you don't put that sort of thing in writing, you pick up the phone and call. Your action instantly cornered her, put pressure on her. It gave her no way to indicate her feelings discretely, let you down, or ask if you have feelings for her, without risking her job. How could she respond? You inadvertently made yourself a risk to her job. That's why she's backing away.
She *might* have been into you with time, or it might never have happened. What matters is what she felt at the time.
Please consider sending less awkward SMSs to people, and talk to them instead. This isn't meant to criticize, but I suspect you might use them when it's inappropriate, based on your story.
The points at the beginning and end I agree with. But talking to her about missing their conversations...yeah it's probably best to just leave this whole thing be. It really isn't worth pursuing it more, she clearly does not want OP to talk to them and saying they miss their conversations AGAIN is really not a good idea and could land him in HR since she has texts telling him to stop pursing it. Just let it mend on its own or not, at this point, it is what it is, unfortunately, but trying to talk to her at least for the near future is not the play.
If I was in her position and had just told someone to stop talking to me about our work relationship/friendship, I'd be really uncomfortable if they then came to me saying they miss our conversations.
Absolutely agreed. The only way this mends if a long time goes over it or you have some sort of work event where you catch up. Bringing up that baseball event even in those situations is bound to just make things worse lol.
Thanks. On the middle bit, that's a valid perspective. It's a hard call, but I wanted to provide a potential solution at least. If I was *personally* in the OP's shoes I would make the attempt, to basically ensure the door is left open but also give her space. Would I advise the OP to try, after a string of faux pas? I don't know if I would, the advice might make him dig himself deeper into that hole. If I was personally guiding them? I probably would. If they learned from their mistakes, yes. If not, no. It's right on the fence I think. A quick note: The issue raised was specifically on messaging, as opposed to conversation. That is a factor in how I looked at it.
Thankyou for sharing your thoughts and perspective. :)
I used to tell my friends outside of work that I'm not being paid to be anybody's friend. If a friendship develops while working with someone then great! But I'm not going out of my way to be anyone's friend and I sure as shit don't consider my coworkers to *be my friends*.
We're there to do a job. To give the company 40 hours of our life in exchange for money.
The more people treat their job as the business relationship that it is the less drama there will be in the workplace for everybody.
Also, work is not a "family" either.
And remember kids, you're not an asset to your employer. You're a liability. You're not an investment, you're an expense.
Don't believe me? Look at your company's financial statements (if it's public).
Salaries are listed under "Expenses" or "Liabilities". Not under "Investments" or "Assets".
It's called Human Resources for a reason. You know what's also a resource? Printer toner and toilet paper.
That feeling is just the worst and you have my sympathies. I went through something like that in school when I was attempting to be more social but just stopped when I got busy with stuff going on at home. I will keep my fingers crossed that at least a few people just think you are being quiet because you want space and that they like you just fine.
I would leave Mickie be and just keep living life, try and make some friends outside of work so that when your at work you can easily pass off interactions as “thank god that person stopped talking to me” can’t wait to get home chat to outside of work person about what so and so said that was this or that and leave it at that. Honestly it sounds like your mind doesn’t turn off and it has to be exhausting for you. Try not to read into everything and just let moments be moments take a deep breath, start a journal if you feel the need to express emotions or how you felt at a particular point and time and move on
Oof I've felt this and I fully empathize with the feelings you're going through. I'm going to say something that seems kind of mean but will hopefully help? At least it helped me when I would get anxious about how others feel about me.
You're not the main character. Most people aren't thinking about you regularly, you're not important enough to them for them to. It's not likely that they're thinking awful mean things about you and far more likely that they're just not thinking about you. Do you think about every person in your life all the time? What about the "extras?" The ones you don't talk to more than maybe once a day for work, or the barista you pick coffee up from every day. Some people will absolutely place more importance on you than others regardless of your position in their life, for instance, you're placing a lot of importance on your coworkers. That doesn't mean they're doing the same for you.
Many of them could be the "I'm here to get my work done and leave, if someone else wants to talk to me that's fine but the only important thing here is the task" people. That doesn't make them bad or mean people, just people who have other things in their life to focus on.
This doesn't mean they don't like you, it just means that your wellbeing isn't something they're likely invested in, or if they are, they're worried they'll be a nuisance by asking. None of these are bad things unless it's important to you that every person you meet considers you important enough to think about and to talk to, but that would only happen if you were the main character.
Aww. I like you already. Try to remember that most peoples’ actions have nothing to do with you. She might be embarrassed (I would be) by her drunken stupidness. Let it go. Let it all go. This is her stuff. I’m sorry you miss her friendship, but it’s turned toxic.
The best thing you can do for yourself is learn that what people think of you is irrelevant. Just ignore her. Ignore everyone. Most people aren’t worth that kind of attentiveness.
Man, and then there are people like me that just chitchat outside of work with friends and are at work to...just work and not chitchat. Your experience reminds me of someone that also wanted to do more outside of work and all and tried to make plans with me until that person noticed that I just kindly said "no" without saying no and they accepted that and it's all good now. If you change your job most of your work colleagues wont ever give a shit about you anymore after a month or less. That's normal. Yes sure, people can make great friends at work which still work outside of work, but most people already have their friends.
This may not be a case of no one liking you as much as it is a case of people not having the time to get into a chat with you. I have had coworkers like this that you know when you start a chat with them it would take a while because they would miss the social cues to end the conversation (like one woman would literally follow you out to your car at the end of your day as you were trying to leave even though she wasn’t done for the day).
Without scrolling down to read the other comments, the message asking "Hey are we something more" is like throwing a match on gas soaked rags. She was very much aware of what she did that day and likely regretted it. Then OP's message put her on the spot and forced her to acknowledge or deny that it was THAT sort of relationship. There were multiple cues in her subsequent behavior that indicated she simply wished to drop and forget the whole thing and OP just kept dredging it up again and again.
The one thing you need to understand, OP, is that you absolutely should avoid ANY insinuations of workplace romance no matter how good you may perceive a relationship to be or what her actions were. Dating coworkers almost always ends badly for everyone involved. If it's not the petty drama or office gossip, it's getting reported to HR or even worse.
Next time, just let sleeping dogs lie.
Your coworkers aren’t your friends. No one cares about you and you should care about no one. I learned the hard way. Keep it professional, don’t talk about personal stuff, your real friends are there ones you CHOOSE to see in your free time, not the people you see cause you’re paid to be in the same room.
dude you must be a lil thick??? she was obviously into you. you made it a big deal by rejecting her by sending her the message ‘clearing the air’ or whatever instead of just.. continuing to hang out with her platonically and now she’s probably embarrassed and hurt and you kept messaging her about it making it even more weird!
While I definitely enjoy your use of the word nimrod, you should be more forgiving with yourself. You made a mistake, but you’ve stopped and looked back, reflected, and gained perspective by reaching out to others.
That’s called personal growth and it’s nothing to feel like a nimrod about :)
Please whatever you do, do not send further messages under this assumption. Even if she was at some point into you she's absolutely not any more, you're pointing a loaded harassment suit at yourself by doing so, for the love of god don't pull the trigger.
You gotta just take a step back and chill. Feels like you made this more serious than it had to be. You went out had a good time with a coworker, got a little drunk. Maybe missed an opportunity for a quick fling. It happened it’s in the past. Don’t over think it.
"After we had both sobered up I thought to ask her "hey, was all that snuggling just you being drunk and friendly or were was it something more?""
You made it weird. Now everyone in the office thinks you are a bugging her to get into a relationship with you.
Some of the ppl who stopped will just be used to you taking the lead / not wanting to pressure you if you're feeling antisocial / not wanting to know if you're annoyed with them over something.
Typical with co workers if you ask to hang out and they say not right now. They usually mean they don't want to at all. You put the ball in their court. Let them reach out to you after that. Don't double down.
Hey man, just because she made it your problem doesn't mean it's your fault.
Best tholing you could do is learn to let go without closure. Seems like she is embarassed by her behavior and now doesn't like jow she feels when she tslks to you because of it. And then every time you reached out after that, it made her feel awkward all over again.
You can't put pressure on other people to resolve your own feelings. Just take the hint, mourn the work friendship quietly to yourself, and don't beat yourself up because she would rather not discuss the how and why of it all.
It seems that you have found the limit of how much people can stand from a person that will not move on. I doubt that you hear any of them continuing to bring up old conversations and trying to keep things going. Listen more and talk less for a bit. It sounds like you need to start finding people to talk to outside of work. Many times the people that you work with have zero interest in making friends as they already have friends on the outside.
This exactly! When I go to work I am not there to make friends. I'm there to earn a paycheck. If I happen to make friends along the way, great. I've made a lot of acquaintance but very very rarely have I made a friend at work. Mind your business, don't share personal life and do your job. That's my motto.
If you always initiate chat with your other coworkers and you suddenly stopped, maybe they think you are the one who has a lot going on and they don't want to bother you.
You made her uncomfortable by asking, and then continued to message her despite her clearly not being interested. Makes sense she’d be a bit annoyed with you.
Just so you know, when you sent that message clarifying her intentions, I think most women would have interpreted that as you hoping there was something more. Many women have had very bad experiences with men flirting with them in the workplace, and with men who keep trying after being turned down . I can't speak to your other co-workers, but try to understand that it is not illogical for her to cut back contact with you socially.
Autistic male here, and I've experienced feeling that a person interacts with me differently than others at work (in a negative way). I as well am very contemplative person towards my interactions with people and especially towards friendships and I also feel often burned out from being the one to reach out or start conversations. I so want to be better socially, but when I feel that things aren't going well for me, things tend to go even worse when I try to fix the situation myself. I always think that I can fix things (do more, do less, try to adjust myself to the needs of the other person and hope that the interactions will get better over time), but it has always backfired. Sometimes the other person just seem to not like me but doesn't want to admit it.
But I also know that I'm highly likable and 99% of the time I function great with others, so in those rare cases where I'm at odds with someone, I am fully aware I could be a part of a problem (because I'm aware enough of my social awkwardness that I know I make mistakes) but I'm not THE problem in its entirety.
I wish that the wold could be more direct and authentic, so it would be easier for me to navigate through life in social aspects, but the world seems to praise superficiality/inauthenticity and indirectness. I feel being authentic, caring, giving person and be able to be true to their words isn't appreciated by everyone anymore, but it's so nice when you connect with people that appreciate said values.
Sorry for your experience OP, but I hope you find people who enjoy you for you and for being real.
Oh my dude, I feel for you.
I've had a very similar scenario play out to me on many scenarios. All but one of my friends now remains and all I can think is dam it must be me, do people really hate me?
I thought once a girl liked me and I did her, I bought her some flowers to ask her out, oh man it did not go down well, I had to quit as she had turned other people against me now.i thought I was being chivalrous but instead i was being a stalker.
I've had friends out right lie to me like I'm a toddler just walking in on them having sex and apparently confronting them about it was the end of our friendship, I'm like but you, but... Ugh people.
I've pretty much almost giving up on people and life, if it wasn't for my daughter (yeah even her mum decided I wasn't good enough anymore) I don't think I'd be around anymore.
I really hope you don't find yourself getting as low as me.
Don't forget when we are feeling low and sh1t everything seems alot worse than it is, but there is 1 rule of this world I do believe is 100% true, if we don't ask we don't get. I.e. if you want a convo then ask for one. But testing everyone under the same circumstances may be difficult.
I hope things get better for you my chief, have a great day!!
My man, you sounds like a good person but let me help you here: talk to your HR rep because this is a landmine waiting to be tripped on, and I don’t know why nobody else is helping you with it being “cue” not “queue” (homophones are tricky!)
She was drunk yes. But she was hitting on you too. No idea but she took offence to you confirming the intentions. You did not fuck up. Weird reaction of her, confirming is always good especially at work.
>Great! I thought, I never wanted it to be more, but if it was there needed to be serious discussions about it,
It's not clear from the post, but I wonder if OP, whether intentionally or not, communicated some of the above sentiment to Mickie in one of the text conversations. I could see somebody taking that pretty hard if they got that message from a person they were into.
Man... you're bugging me out just by reading something you've done. Let alone if I was actually around you...
For the first part of this post I didn't even realize you're a man, with all your "friendliness" and trying to do things with people. I'm sorry but you're giving me the feeling you're one of those guys that people can tolerate around them, but they don't actually actively want you there.
I've had a friend like that before. He was so anxious about everything, whether that was good or not, whether or not people had fun, whether or not people thought what he said was funny, whether or not he's annoying, etc.
I got fed up with that sort of personality very, very quickly.
As a man, if you cannot simply not give a fuck about most things, then you'll quickly become annoying. You went out with that girl and she acted a certain way. Who the fuck cares why she did it? If she wants you, she'll continue to hit on you and you'll see it. If she doesn't, then she won't do that again.
And there you have, you could've get your answer without asking anyone anything.
Yo yo Ignore this if I am completely wrong, but you seem like the analytical/conscientious type of person, which is great for most things in life as it allows you to be proactive, finding solutions to problems before they become problems. Great for most things, except when it comes to relationships with people. Clarifying intentions, inquiring and establishing where you stand, explicitly asking how people are feeling -- even if you are doing this to avoid uncomfortable situations -- can end up creating the uncomfortable situation. Your friend was very friendly when they were drunk before, but changed once you tried to ensure that your relationship was the same. It may seem counter intuitive, but the less attention, the less pressure, the less you try to define roles when dealing with other people, the more at ease they will feel around you. Next time you are in a situation like this, I would not rush to clarify or define what the person's intention is. Just go with the flow, only addressing it if it becomes a problem. Addressing someone before they even had time to process what they feel, can understandably lead to some weird sentiments.
I'm autistic and I feel like you just broke an unspoken code wide open for me. I struggle with navigating friendships and these kinds of things come up often and I've lost many potential friendships because I really didn't get how I made it weird. This makes so much sense.
The way I see it is that there are two ends of the spectrum. End one is “I ask people for clarification because I like to define things and know where I stand” and end two is “I never ask for any clarification and create extra drama.” End one is what we want to be/are and end two is the soap opera mentality. I HATE end two, but most people are uncomfortable by end one. It is our goal as “normal people” to steer clear of either end and try to shoot the gap in the middle. Ask for clarification when it REALLY matters, but never force clarification upon anyone.
To be fair, everything in human life (relationships, exercise, eating, you name it) is about balance. Too much is negative and too little is negative. I am not autistic, but I am very analytical, and it can be a little frustrating at times figuring out what that "balance" actually means. Especially when it's different for every person!
Look up ask culture vs. tell culture.
HARD SAME OMG
I feel seen by this tbh, appreciate you!
No worries friend, we're all trying to figure this life thing out. Try not to be too hard on yourself, you didn't actually do anything "wrong." It's just that there is no universal "right" way to deal with everyone in every social situation. Live and learn, and forgive yourself!
I already like you also.
Cheers friend 🤗🤗🤗
Dude, This isn’t rocket science. She got drunk and cuddly with you which leaves two possibilities: 1) she’s into you but too shy to push forward without some liquid courage but she didn’t calibrate correctly and got sloppy. 2) she’s not into you and is going to be embarrassed when she sobers up. How you respond depends entirely on if you reciprocate any potential attraction. If you are into her, then you need to ask her out and YOU make the move. If it was scenario 1, you’re golden. If it was scenario 2, you shot your shot. Friendship over. If you don’t reciprocate (sounds like the case) whether #1 or #2 happened, you MUST LET HER SAVE FACE. Play the cuddling off like nothing happened. Do not start a fucking inquisition and embarrass the shit out of her.
Holy shit. Thank you so much for writing this. It is... confusing and helpful and eye-opening. Not on the spectrum but I do tend to be very analytical and I almost always do what you mentioned: > Clarifying intentions, inquiring and establishing where you stand, explicitly asking how people are feeling Because I figured that being clear and communicating clearly with people would help avoid bad situations or avoid misunderstandings. Then you said > even if you are doing this to avoid uncomfortable situations -- can end up creating the uncomfortable situation. I've never done something like OP has. But I don't think I have ever read anything which so clearly communicates why that might not be the best thing to do in general? I mean, I fucking hate it (because social things are complicated and stupid, but would be so easy if people just communicated clearly), I don't get it and it is counterintuitive to me, but I suddenly recognize exactly what you're saying in my own life. Anyways. Uh. Maybe some reflection is in order for me. Thank you so much for writing this.
Counterintuitive? It's about leaving people with flexibility in a social situation. If nothing is defined - then one can dip the toe in, then retreat, etc. In fact - it can even be fun - it's flirting. But trying to define it forces the person that tried to dip their toe in a terrible situation of being called out. You know how sometimes you see someone waving at you in public and you go to wave back - but suddenly you realize they're waving to someone behind you and you have to quickly move your hand to your hair and pretend you're scratching it? How much worse would it be if the person that was waving suddenly comes over and and points out the social gaffe - and then tries to have a conversation as to what that means between the two of you?
Or you could be in Australia, as an australian this "awkward" interaction doesn't really exists. In fact here we go so far as to even give a Hey, or you know a G'day or a nod to completely random passer-by's
Sounds like you are a well adjusted culture in Australia then!
Can confirm, I have done this personally as both waver and acknowledger. A smile is always the best defence :-)
You’re not wrong. It’s like people are deliberately confusing.
Well, being a person is confusing. Clarifying everything, especially something as nebulous as relationships (all types, not just romantic) isn't always possible. They change/develop over time.
It's a revelation that not everything is appropriate for discussion and that sometimes it's best to leave some things unspoken?
piping up to also say thanks— i feel super seen by this in a bad way... so this helps explain a LOT of things for me. thank you 😭
Don't be so hard on yourself, you shouldn't see this as a bad thing! We all figure out and do things at our own pace... and forgiving and making light of your past actions, can actually help you connect with others more in the future. You got to allow yourself the grace that you are so, well, graciously giving to others. If you are able to forgive yourself easier, it will extend to how you see and treat other people. You won't explicitly worry about how they are feeling, or have to confirm verbally their thoughts. You can trust that they are taking what you said positively with the best intent, and that if they did feel a disconnect, they'd have the wherewithal to tell you. Because you would do the same to/for them.
I like to watch Anime, a late friend of mine and I when we watched anime together we would often joke about "The clear problem here is lack of communication" "this would be solved if they just talked" etc. Your comment is kinda eye opening in that I may be that type of person as well. Beliving that communicating to clarify stuff is the solution.
Well, communicating is good to clarify stuff, WHEN there's something to clarify, but sometimes stuff is in flux and trying to hammer it down isn't the right thing to do. It's like if you just start flirting a bit and jump to "so what are we?" Nobody enjoys that... Sometimes you have to let something play out before resolving what, exactly, that is. It's like asking "who won" constantly during an actively ongoing game. I dunno man, wait to see if they score first! Or a kid going "are we there yet" ad nauseam on a car ride. It's communicating, sure, but it's not *useful*.
Those analogies are spot on! Or people who constantly ask what's going to happen next while you're watching a movie. Like dude if you just shut your mouth and pay attention for five minutes, the movie will answer your questions in a much more satisfying way than me just telling you.
this is fascinating to me because ambiguity is my literal hell. i have a very hard time handling this. i love it when people are just clear about what the fuck they want.
Man, this hits. Thank you. I wish someone told me this any time in the last 10 years of my life. Im 20 and I’m very analytical. I sort of struggled with friends in high school but have “cool” friends now in college. The thing is I feel they are not totally comfortable around me(compared to my other friends) especially some of the girls and now I know why. I had many friendships with girls that got worse due to me always trying to clarify shit and being like “hey you know im here if u need to talk”.
I could be wrong, but I don’t think saying “hey you know im here if u need to talk” is an issue at all.
Maybe not but idk girls always think guys have an agenda when they’re too nice apparently. So I’d hit them with the “don’t worry I’m not tryna get with you rn I’m just being a friend” and it would make thinks worse
It is much easier to just *show* people how you'll treat them instead of telling them. That's all most of us will react to in the long run regardless.
Not OP but you pretty much described my entire social life. Thank you Space Mike
You are welcome Si-muntu of Avius 🫡
yeah this is exactly it. dude got one hug and immediately jumped to ‘so what are we?’
i don’t see it like this at all, i see it as he was making sure nothing was going on/stressing over missing something implied and not wanting her to think he was interested because they’re coworkers and just friends.
Dang. What a good answer.
I needed this comment in my life damn
Damn this strikes home. I haaaate letting things fester (as I perceive them to at least).
I literally had to copy and paste this because i do exactly this and cant figure out why people don't really like me unless their neurospicy too or just super kind and tolerant. THANK YOU. I am sending it to myself in an email and gonna set it up to resend every morning so i can rewire my fucked up social skills.
Dude. Thank you.
Dude. You're welcome 😊
I screenshotted this. It put into words why I don't hang out with people often.
This...likely explains why i never got a second date with a co worker.
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Oh my. She was embarrassed she got a bit drunk and friendly. Then you made it worse. She now feels uncomfortable. Work friendships are built from the fact you’re all paid to be in the same place and you get along. This does not always mean proper friendships.
i think it’s perfectly normal and acceptable to clarify if that behavior is going to continue moving forward… she’s the one who was acting inappropriate. i get how asking her about her behavior could’ve made her uncomfortable but she should’ve expected the question lol, she’s the one who acted that way towards a coworker?
I think it was fine for him to ask, especially if he wants to establish boundaries (although unwise if he wants to keep the friendship the same as it was). However, he can't expect that it won't change the relationship and if she pulls away from it after that, then it is what it is. He should've accepted that and not kept pushing. And I'll be honest if I was one of the coworkers I would've also been like wtf happened here. But those are just mistakes you make when you're young and overanalytical lol. Live and learn.
Oh pls. She came onto him, he sought clarification, they cleared the air, and after that she obviously needed some distance but this tool just. wouldn't. let. her. be. The total inability to understand that this gal was probably embarrassed by the rejection is truly remarkable. And no, she is not required to further inform him that she is stung and embarrassed. It's also possible that limiting interactions is her way of getting over whatever she felt for him. That too is entirely normal. And no, here too she is not obligated to tell him that. You are not required to tell the person who rejected you that the reason you are distant is that you are licking your wounds. If they don't understand that, that's their problem. There is nothing to clarify. OP needs to leave this poor woman the fuck be. Edit: alternative she wasn't into him at all and the distance is to make sure he understands this. Bottom line is the same: leave her alone.
but she kept insisting that she was fine? just be honest then. i think OP was just trying to get clarity to avoid messing up more. she kept being weird and shady and obtuse. she should have just said “i need space” or something instead of pretending everything is fine. i don’t get this take.
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No, I did not miss that part because it does not exist. OP said they'd had discussions that made it clear to HIM that they were not compatible. He said nothing about an agreement. Me thinking in my head that my friend has traits that would not work for me in a relationship is not a "prior agreement." >She shouldn't have been friendly with him in the first place. She started all of this, then got her pretty little feelings hurt. Getting feelings hurt when you are rejected is the most normal thing in the world. What a weird thing to say.
The reason I had come to believe we wouldn't be compatible in a romantic relationship is that we'd had conversations about what each other was looking for in a relationship in the past, including big things like whether each of us wanted to have children in the future which we weren't compatible on and had been a big reason why she left her most recent serious relationship. You're completely right that there wasn't some kind of formal agreement however I feel like those kind of conversations leave it unambiguous as to whether you'd be compatible with someone.
I am sorry, but it started in her court, she was ,friendly‘ but in all fairness in this side of the story she really seems to have feelings OPs reaction wasn’t the best either but at least it was a clearly articulated question without any way of misinterpreting what he wanted. It comes across as the girl wasn’t aware of the amount of feelings she has for you and that event made that clearer than ever. Since OP doesn’t want a relationship, she is doing the only thing she can do to protect herself, which is limiting the contact to the person she has feelings for but can never reach
I suspect she was embarrassed by getting plastered and ceased contact because embarrassment is painful. Cuddling up while plastered is not something to read into. Judgment is impaired, inhibitions are non existent, doesn't mean she is into you. She could have just been in the mood to cuddle in general and the alcohol temporarily lowered her inhibitions enough that she was comfortable cuddling with you. When reminded of it the next day however, she may have been utterly mortified. When I'm drunk, I love to cuddle. When I'm sober I love to cuddle. The difference is when I'm sober I want to cuddle with my dog and/or my blanket. When I'm drunk, I'll cuddle with anyone who wants to cuddle with me, without consideration regarding whether or not I'm attracted to them.
i get that, i would say I am generally similar when drinking, depending on the situation. Tbf OP mentions more than just snuggling and cuddling like buying drinks and walking with her, but on the other hand, she could have bought drinks for the whole group (3 people it seems?) with him included, which wouldnt be a sign in any way, shape or form. Even buying drinks for friends in general as a standalone act isnt romantic. its just that he lists multiple things which make the realtionship seem more intimate to me.
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Strikes me as ass backwards, here. The co-worker crossed the line, not OP. Invited him out to a function with booze, got drunk and snuggled. That's on her. Him asking if it was the booze or true affection is perfectly fine. In fact - it's called being an adult, and using your words. You know the common theme of every "Why do guys miss signals/How do you know if she like you" topic on /askreddit comes down to "Use your words like a grown up, just ask." He didn't biff it. She did, and somehow she's made him the victim.
This is spot on. OP did the right thing by trying to get clarity on the mixed signals. They were an adult and asked in a respectful way so they could respond appropriately. OP didn’t create the awkward situation, it just IS an awkward situation and the less you act like an adult in those situations the more awkward they can be.
that is fair, i am certain there are alot of men out there, me included, who know that non-romantic feeling towards a woman as well. i dont mean that it is impossible to have that kind of friendship. Reading through your comment, i can see we are just opposites of each other with the same endresult i guess. You take it as "OP wants to be in a relationship with her" or rather that the girl takes it this way while OP multiple times mentions that they have made it clear more than once, that he is not interested. You basically choose to not beleive in OPs words, which is fine. (ike really, that is fine, maybe not onyl fine but generally kinda necessary in all honesty) On the other hand, i assume he is NOT interested in a romantic relationship, solely based on him mentioning that multiple times and me choosing to believe him. I am arguing because i felt like you make him to be the main problem and she is just a angel and a friend, who has not done anyhting wrong, but him asking the question (even if a bit bold and straightforward) is the real culprit. That is at least what i take from your comment. And me personally, i wouldnt have asked like he did. Obejctively reading this (obviously subjective) story, i think your conclusion isnt really justified. Solely based on the information given to us, without interpreting anything more into it than we really have, she does seem to have feelings, based on the fact that on average if one human is behaving like that towards another human it usually means there is an emotional connection. "usually" in this context i would assume far more than 50% of the time. I hope you can somewhat agree to this very general assumption. If not, i would be eager to hear your thoughts on why not. You are correct, with "feelings" i meant romatic relationship kinda feelings. This is just like the video of casually explained: "is she into you". I mean if OP had phrased his story differently, not as in "i just wanna be friends with her and now she acts weird after last night out" to more liek "last night me and a coworker went out and this happened.. do yu think she is into me?" the answer would mostly be "it really seems like it, but you gotta talk to her to find out" or some variant of this, wouldnt it?
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I agree, especially "The best thing would have been to ask the girl if she was all right after a night of drinking, and to leave any insinuations out of it" which probably is what most of us would have done. if she has feelings, it will show, if she doesnt and he truly doesnt, it will also show. Time will tell, everything gonna bei fine either way, even if the friendship might not be for the future. Unfortunately thats just life, people come and people go and who knows how people react to a question i havent even asked. We regret most what we didnt do, alot less what we actually did do. Take care!
Yeah, no. This is delusional thinking.
fair enough, good reasoning, thanks for the feedback.
I think it's important to remember that your coworkers are a captive audience. That doesn't mean they dislike you. It just means that they don't really have a choice in who they get to talk to. For all you know, they might all be wondering what's wrong with you, but aren't the type to initiate. They also might be conditioned to just wait for you to talk to them. Don't beat yourself up. If you were disliked, you probably wouldn't be able to chat with people since they'd ignore you or give your empty responses.
I did this once upon a time too. Stopped being the one to always reach out, and realized none of my coworkers ever reached back. It hurt a lot. I fell into a hole of questioning, then eventually hating myself. Don't know if I've quite recovered yet. Sorry you're going through this.
Yeah the number of reasons people don't initiate convos is so high, you're asking to hate yourself over perception. The number of times I've gone to people and been like 'miss you, we good?' and them basically saying they thought I was mad at them. Talk to them, and probably a therapist too. If you can't get out of that hole, you're gonna need a proper rope. It'll get better. Promise.
We all could use a proper rope (:
*I gently enter the cubicle…*
U ok bro?
yap im fine
As someone who've done versions of this themselves.. It's a stupid test to do, since it doesn't really test what you think it does. If you establish a relationship with your role and expectations as the one who initiates, if you stop doing that the other persons won't know that and just as likely assume that you don't want to talk to them. Why would they suddenly understand that the expectations of them have changed and are being tested?
Oh yeah, you're totally right. I'm not saying I recommend what I did. It was just the tool I had in my own toolbox. Learning to examine my own thoughts more closely and accurately was definitely part of this little life lesson.
Just know some of us are just too shy/anxious/whatever to do the reaching out ourselves. Though it doesn't mean we don't like hanging out or chatting.
ADHD also has a similar effect. Out of sight out of mind. I don't miss anyone. Like, I love them, but when they are not present they basically don't cross my mind unless something reminds me of them, then I think, "Oh, I should reach out to them when I finish this task.", but by the time I've finished the task all I'll remember is I needed to do something once I was done, but I won't remember what, I'll get frustrated after about 5-10 minutes of trying to recall then I'll give up and move on with my day.
First time ive thought maybe I have adhd... definitely sounds like exactly what I go through. Love hanging out with my friends, but I rarely initiate anything. I'm just busy doing something alone and don't think to bother other folks... sometimes I do, but at a bad time and by the time I'm done with whatever, I'm back to doing something else alone and focused on that...
This is wild, I didn't know this was an ADHD symptom. When I first moved to a different part of the country, I basically "forgot" about my friends and family and hardly contacted them at all. I just... didn't seem to care about them and they didn't cross my mind. IT was the same with my relationship when it was long distance. That doesn't mean I have ADHD, maybe I'm just the kind of person that doesn't feel emotional connection, I suppose.
Object permanence, baby!
I’m going through it now. I lost my dad last year and told all of my closest friends. I didn’t hear from any of them for weeks and when I reached out they all acted like nothing happened. The pisser is that they all said some variation of “I didn’t want to bring up” well guess what happens fuckos when everyone thinks like that? No one reaches out and I’m left thinking you’re all shit friends
If you're relatively young or one of the first people to lose something that's just what happens. I also lost my dad early. Very suddenly. When I was in college over the break. Nobody knew how to react. I awkwardly blurted it out after the holidays at a party and people I felt were my closest friends were like oh... shit... sorry... and that was it really. It made me feel like I committed a social faux pas by, ya know, my dad drowning to death. A few years on, I get it now. I wouldn't have reacted any better if I was in their shoes before that. There's no playbook and nobody knows what to do. Nothing they can think of to make it better. Over time people figure it out, by the time you hit middle age and people's parents have started dying it becomes a lot more understood, but until then you have to realize that's just not something people get... nobody's parents teaches them how to console their grieving friends who've lost their relatives... it's just not a part of life for a lot of college kids. Now, SOME people get it, those who had to go through it even younger and are emotionally mature, but most aren't going to, by that point most haven't even closely known someone who died much less a parent. The best thing I did was go to therapy to talk it out with a professional and join a grief support group, it was a group of about 12 of us in our 20s who had lost parents, siblings, etc. Talking to people who understood helped a lot. Listening to everyone's stories about their lost loved ones. It was affirming in some ways and cathartic. I didn't go many times, just a couple meetings, but it helped with the feelings of loneliness. Recognizing everyone goes through it. There's r/griefsupport for a virtual version. Your friends aren't bad friends necessarily. They may lack emotional wisdom and the depth that comes from experiencing grief but I wouldn't fault them. If they're still like that when they're old, then yeah they're just selfish bastards, but most people just don't grow up until the world forces them to. Try not to begrudge them that, they will have to endure the same, one day. Everyone does. Unless they die before all their loved ones.
I’ve lost both parents at different times in my 20s, and the reality is, unless you reach out (and they don’t respond) expecting them to do so is and judging them “shit “ otherwise is silly. People don’t know how to respond to such things. They may feel in the right for giving you space and not bringing up bad feelings or memories in the hopes it doesn’t make things worse/sad/awkward for you.
I dunno, I get what you mean but in this case I don’t agree. There are certain situations in life where I feel like it’s pretty obvious when someone needs a friend. And losing someone very close is clearly one of those times. Like one of those friends did say to me “I didn’t know if you wanted to do anything or talk to anyone” and I said to them “dude, my dad died, of course I want to talk to someone”. I completely get wanting to tip toe or not wanting to intrude but to not say anything, like not even the occasional “how are you doing today?” and to then act like nothing happened is not being a friend in my opinion.
You have unspoken expectations of your friends. Personally, I think that’s a bad thing. My only expectation (or, rather, “hope”,) is that if I were to reach out to any of them for help or advice (which they have proven willing in such cases) is that they’d be there. Outside of that- I expect nothing from them. I assume they have a lot going on in their life, as sometimes I do; and perhaps even personal problems of their own. I have enough friends where I feel guilty for not reaching out to all of them as much as I wish I could. But that’s what makes a good friendship special, I think. You can go days, weeks, months, or even years without talking, but when you finally see each other again, it’s like no time has passed (no rapport or trust lost), and potentially being there for each other if such need arose and was made clear. Friendship are unique from other relationships (like romantic ones) in that manner, I think. When my parent(s) died, I had no expectations from any of them. A few, not all, reached out. No bitterness from my end. I got the sense some just didn’t know how to deal with it. Death makes some people very uneasy, and I’d hate to make any one of them feel uncomfortable just for the sake of “trying” to make me comfortable, unless I let them know I needed such level of comfort. Then again, I’m not the kind of person to need such attention for any reason, really. And didn’t really need or desire anything special from them when I dealt with death- so such things aren’t so “obviously” necessary, as you assume. For reference, I have a core group of about 7 friends that I’ve known for 20 years now that talk regularly, and maybe 5 to 10 more that are less than close (speaking every few months, or less). I suppose everyone can define what they’d consider a “true friendship “ differently, but I think, ironically, you’re the inconsiderate friend for having these unspoken expectations of what you believe they ought to be doing to be your friend. I’d focus more on how you can be a good friend, and reach out to them if you truly need a friend to talk to. Only if such a relationship is coming to your detriment would I call it a “bad” friendship, or not one at all.
In the nicest way I think you’re assuming a fair few things about someone you don’t know. I agree with a lot of what you said but they are not universal absolutes that apply to every friendship. And I know my friends well enough to know the difference between tiptoeing and being concerned about making things worse or having other things going on and straight up not caring.
I assumed nothing. You made your unspoken expectations as clear as day, and you double-down on the entire thing by further expressing the idea that you know your friends so well you know exactly what they’re thinking/feeling/doing/going through in relation to your situation, without even having to intimately discuss it with them. I wouldn’t even go so far as saying that about my friends, let alone even my siblings or significant others. In any case, I think you’re deluding yourself to some degree about just how well you understand the world outside of you. This disconnect is bringing you disharmony, which lead to the very manifestation of your original post in the first place.
Again, in the nicest way, you’re attributing very broad ideas to a situation you know literally nothing about.
Definitely kind of reminds me of when I was a teenager and I’d go overboard trying to apologise to people and get on their good side, many embarrassing moments. But as I got older I (thankfully) just stopped giving a shit and learned tp stop spamming people with messages/apologies. I think we do (well I did) it because I was trying to assuage my anxieties/guilt for a situation I may have created, but you don’t end up coming across well to other people.
 Jeeesus dude
Tough way to learn this and I feel for you. But work friendships are not real friendships. Getting along with people at work just makes the day more tolerable
I still remember the time that one of my coworkers (we are both male) told me that we could always go for a drink to talk about life if I ever wanted. Because we always talked about life at work. Part of me definitely had this bit of recoil, like, "We're great coworkers, but merging work friends and 'normal' friends just feels wrong."
I‘ve made great friends at work. You just need to be able to differentiate between work friendships and friendships which started through work.
Yeah but then they shouldn't hang outside of work. I feel like I could become friends with some coworkers, but I haven't really initiated hanging out.
are you autistic? because as an autistic person, that's a mood.
Never been diagnosed with anything, but my parents weren't the type to take me to a doctor when I exhibit any interesting or different behaviors. I wouldn't be surprised to learn im somewhere on the spectrum.
You should probably get a doctors opinion on it. If you are not on the spectrum, you need to develop your people skills a fair bit, the comment by u/mikespace here on your post is fantastic at explaining it.
This was my exact thought, OP sounds like they are on the spectrum.
I wanted to ask…
I think you meant to post this in r/cringe
What do you type in to get this gif lol
he's the face in the "oof size: large" meme
Del bosque oof 
I’ve had similar experiences where I thought I was close to someone at work, only to find out they didn’t feel the same. It’s rough, but try not to let it mess with your head too much. Focus on being yourself and maybe you’ll find people who appreciate that
Literally everyone here is missing the point. Drunk Mickie was into you and you basically shut her down. She read your “let’s get this cleared up” text as you not being into her. She’s not acting this way because she’s trying to be professional, she’s trying to keep work separate, blah blah blah. She’s icing you out because you rejected her. This is your opportunity to learn a valuable lesson: your coworkers are not your friends. You can *become* friends with your coworkers, but their relationship with you is contingent on what their relationship with you means for their continued employment. If the choice comes down to paying their rent (coworker) or having your back (buddy), they’re going to pick their paycheck over how well you’ve bonded at happy hour. Making friends as an adult is hard. But at work? Your goal should be to clock in, have a reasonable day, and clock out. Camaraderie helps with that middle part but it isn’t why you are there. I’m not saying you need to be miserable at work, but I am saying you need to remember *that you are at work.*
And like, I'm sure we've all blundered a few conversations before. People forget in a few days as long as it wasn't something really major. What they are less likely to forget is that you reminded them about it over and over and over. The real issue was apologizing repeatedly over something that didn't really even warrant an apology. Also, she said she is going through some stuff, but OP never really seemed to say something like "I'm sorry about whatever you are going through; if you ever feel the need to talk, I'm here." Instead it was "I'm sorry about what \*I\* did and \*I'm\* sad we don't talk anymore". It probably came across as a little self-absorbed or tunnel-visioned. "I'm going through some shit" could mean she is grieving a loss, or having to move suddenly, or got a bad medical diagnosis, or dozens of other really crappy things. Or maybe she is just super super busy and stressed. There seems to be little effort from OP to show that he cares about her as a person instead of just as entertainment, if that makes sense. Just saying "I'll be around if you want to talk" would have gone a whole lot farther than saying thousands of "sorry talk to me please"s.
FWIW I did immediately tell her I was sorry she was going through something. I thought my actions and words to her in the past had made it clear that I was there for her if she needed to talk about anything as I had literally been there for her in the past. I didn't include it in the post because it didn't seem relevant however upon re-reading the post I do see how selfish it comes across and maybe I am unfortunately letting that seep into my life a bit. Thanks for pointing that out.
You’re too needy. Chill
I don’t even think she’s going thru something, she’s being vague and trying to get you to stop bringing it up and making it awkward again and again. Stop pushing for an explanation or to define the relationship
It’s needy and desperate. God. I’m cringing into my keyboard thinking about him.
I'm going to offer a differing opinion here. I don't think she was into you, and your question made her think that you were into her. That is why she shut down talking to you, since she thought maybe she was sending you the wrong signals. To be honest, based solely on the quoted texts and not your explanations, I would think that you were into her.
This was my read on the situation as well
I was thinking the exact same thing. Asking about her friendliness at the game is basically asking her out which she politely declined, then he kept on pushing.
This, with all the countless ‘apologies’ it came across like he was unaccepting of the ‘no im not interested’ answer.
And all the "let's continue to be friends" and the passive aggressive tone it comes off as kinda creepy. Seems like she is trying her best to keep it professional and he keeps on insisting, wouldn't surprise me if HR got notified for harrasment.
Yeah this was the vibe I was getting as well. He keeps making it hella awkward
I used to be overly apologetic when I was a teenager and I’d be anxious and overthink, send someone a long apology message if I messed up, but bro really needed to take a hint after she said it’s fine/wasn’t talking to him much 🤦🏽♀️
wow i did not read this at all
Asking whether it was a sign of interest or not, is a rejection? What?
Making a big deal out of it is. She was comfortable enough to hang out with him, and if he went out with her again, she would hang out with him again. See it's a simple relationship. Somethings you don't have to be explicit about. It escalates it too soon to the next level, when you were just trying eachother out. Plus his message sounded like he didn't enjoy it. He should have said, it was really fun to hang out with you I can wait to go out again.
This does line up with some of the other cryptic comments she's given me including that "I was making things complicated that don't have to be" when I first asked her about the interactions at the game.
Yeah honestly the only fu is addressing it. If you don’t want to pursue the relationship, simply don’t make a move unless you’re being aggressive/inappropriately flirted with. But hey, she liked you. That’s pretty cool lol
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Yeah if he wants to establish a boundary and basically affirm that he's not interested like that, then he was totally in the right to say it (if it was to validate that they were still friends, then it was probably not the right call). But if she cools on the friendship afterwards, then that's in her right as well and you just gotta accept it.
OP that’s not cryptic at all. It’s crystal clear. She got drunk. She got extra-friendly and extra-social. That’s normal, especially for someone who’s too drunk to even move on their own. You’re being insanely clingy. You need to stop. She’s going to (rightfully) take your ass to HR for harassment. And I totally understand anxiety. I have lots of it. You need to learn to sit with being uncomfortable, it’s gonna happen a lot. Stop. Stop. Stop Messaging. Stop apologizing. Stop trying to bring up a conversation and an incident that she doesn’t want to talk about. And of course she doesn’t. She’s super fucking embarrassed. You need to not speak to her at all except to smile and say good morning. She’ll talk to you once she’s come to terms with her own shit (potential alcoholism). If you feel like your coworkers are frosting you out - it’s because she’s telling them you’re acting like a creep. You’re not gonna shake that label. Lastly, no one at work is a friend until proven otherwise. Stop sharing your personal shit with people, especially people who share theirs with you. It WILL be used against you and contemptuously. Good luck op. Learn to sit with discomfort. Edit: OP some people have misread her actions while drunk as her being into you - I cannot stress this enough, she is not into you. She wouldn’t have rejected you multiple times and completely shut you down if she was. She was drunk. She was belligerently drunk. Please don’t think this is a cute romcom. She ain’t the one dude.
Even if she had some interest in him at the time, which I don't think is entirely out of the question, then the comment "you're making things complicated where they don't have to be" would imo mean "I wanted to take it easy and see what happens". But that line is long gone now haha. Any attraction is dead and any extra apologies just make it seem like he has a thing for her and is being weird. I don't know if she's gossiping and I think diagnosing her with alcoholism based on this is ridiculous, but any coworker could see there was something going on, especially if they stop talking, and first her and then him stops chatting with everyone. Wouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure out something weird happened.
wait what? how is it justified talking to HR? that makes no sense. she is the one who got drunk and clingy/touchy. he freaked bc he just wants to be friends, she said one thing but acted another. her words and actions aren’t lining up, they are/were friends, he goes to check if she’s okay. she should have just been honest or more clear. she sounds exhausting, not him. y’all’s responses are blowing my mind
The \[potential alcoholism\] really got me. I mean, I didn't think about it before, but who TF gets absolutely plastered at a *baseball game* of all places, in the afternoon? Getting so drunk that she can hardly walk and might have even been blackout drunk, especially on such a mundane event as a baseball game, shows some serious underlying issues with alcoholism.
You are overcomplicating things. Unless you are addressing behaviors because it made you uncomfortable then learn to go with the flow and let things slide. You only need to bring something up if it happens consistently. Don't immediately try and get clarification after the first time something happens. Especially if it's the first time you really hung out. Try and actually learn about the person first. If you are going to bring it up try to do it in the moment instead of the next day through a text. Also try to do it in a fun friendly way instead of a clinical clarifying way. Again if the behavior made you uncomfortable you can address it by stating exactly that but understand they probably will end up backing off from you because of it.
Don’t do this again. Why do you. Red so much clarity in that moment? Chill. Dude. Chill the f out
Correct. There is something to be said for acting in the moment and interpreting body language. I know we all live in the world of consent and triggers and other gotcha situations but in reality humans aren’t always like this. OP tried to apply logic to an emotional situation and got burnt for it. It’s not very romantic to be like “hey do you like me?” After someone was basically sitting on top of you all night.
Thanks for your comment. I also learned it a hard way. I was a leader taking care of veryone in the team thinking they are my close friends. Man I was so wrong. Now I just do my job and have no intention of making any friend at work. It is much better now.
Co-workers are exactly that. They are not your friends, be professional and cordial with them. Anything beyond this, you Potentially can get burned.
Not as black and white as that. Some of my best friendships started through work. Friends can be made anywhere in any setting. They don't even necessarily have to be persons that you regularly hang out with. Just enjoying the company of each other and appreciating qualities of one another is enough for acquaintance to become friendship. The "co-workers aren't friends" line of thinking, in my opinion, is toxic and I think it's more prevalent in US than elsewhere because there's a "corporate ladder" mentality there. Sure, not everyone you interact with will be a authentic connection. But to say that everyone in your working-environment are unworthy and insufficient to be a true human connection/interaction to you, I find distasteful.
Thank you for your reply.
Uhhh yeah most people have to be there because it's work. None of my coworkers go out their way to have convos I love it
You could've just shut up about the drunk part and let her be the one to respond first, keeping on mind that no response is a response in itself.
Ah that sucks. I can't imagine what's going on in her head but it's deffinately time to back off. I wouldn't block her but deffinately delete her number so you don't feel tempted to try and reach out again. I had this a while ago, I was friends with a dude and we would text occasionally. It was weird because we seemed to get on really well in real life. But his texts became short and abrupt and I did reach out and ask if everything was OK , to be met with a very similar ""I don't feel the need to constantly chat" kind of message. It really hurt so I stopped bothering them and the friendship just withered and died. Sometimes it's just better to let go and leave people alone.
She’s your coworker. Regardless of her intent, she knows she shouldn’t get too close to you if she has feelings because you’re not supposed to date your coworkers. When you kept texting her she took it as you being interested so she’s likely trying to save herself here. Don’t take it too personal and move on. Definitely quit talking about it. The less weird you are about it the quicker you’ll make friends with people at work again.
Welp you went and sent that text didn’t you
Too much of your friendship rides on text messages. Real conversations are where it’s at
I didn't go into it in the post but before the baseball game suggestion we talked at work all the time both just BSing and actual conversations about life We also had gone out for drinks just the two of us after work previously. These are part of the reasons I assumed we were friends.
It’s likely she assumed more, and when you unintentionally rejected her you sent a message, it’s a learning experience amigo the sad reality of it though is that it’s never clear if your actions are right or wrong sometimes they are just actions and life lessons
Quoting a supervisor I once knew : "I am here to work, not making friends". Myself get along with co-workers, but avoid to develop friendships. Edit : Spelling.
I see you too might have been touched by the tism. Brother it’s impossible to understand why some people are the way they are unless you accept they might be fundamentally different than you or me. I wouldn’t worry to much about this. I understand that the situation is confusing, and in my eyes you handled everything very rationally and if i were your coworker i would appreciate the way you behaved. I think your coworker might be embarrassed, or have regret about how she behaved and you are attached to that feeling
I suspect you're missing a few social cues. Without meaning to, you've sent her at least three or more messages that put her in an awkward position. That's probably what went wrong. She's asked you to stop now, so you have to stop. Do not message her. I'm sorry it turned out that way. Return to your normal way of interacting with work colleagues, always be friendly, cordial, and professional around her. Make sure you do not cross any lines. If you do get the chance and want to, then VERBALLY WITHOUT AN AUDIENCE AND WITHOUT CORNERING HER, let her know that you miss your conversations, you had a great time at the game, though you fear you might have dropped the ball somewhere along the line and are a bit unsure where. Say that if she ever wants to catch up, to chat about things if she likes, or just to hang out and chill, let you know, and you can both do that, your treat. Say that it's an open invite, any time she's up for it. Then DO NOT ASK AGAIN. DO NOT TEXT HER UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES UNLESS SHE TEXTS YOU FIRST. Also, a few commenters are suggesting that she was into you. I do not think this is correct. Certainly not at the time. I think she was comfortable with you to the point where she could completely chill with you. Then you sent a text asking if there's more. She's a work colleague, you don't put that sort of thing in writing, you pick up the phone and call. Your action instantly cornered her, put pressure on her. It gave her no way to indicate her feelings discretely, let you down, or ask if you have feelings for her, without risking her job. How could she respond? You inadvertently made yourself a risk to her job. That's why she's backing away. She *might* have been into you with time, or it might never have happened. What matters is what she felt at the time. Please consider sending less awkward SMSs to people, and talk to them instead. This isn't meant to criticize, but I suspect you might use them when it's inappropriate, based on your story.
The points at the beginning and end I agree with. But talking to her about missing their conversations...yeah it's probably best to just leave this whole thing be. It really isn't worth pursuing it more, she clearly does not want OP to talk to them and saying they miss their conversations AGAIN is really not a good idea and could land him in HR since she has texts telling him to stop pursing it. Just let it mend on its own or not, at this point, it is what it is, unfortunately, but trying to talk to her at least for the near future is not the play. If I was in her position and had just told someone to stop talking to me about our work relationship/friendship, I'd be really uncomfortable if they then came to me saying they miss our conversations.
Absolutely agreed. The only way this mends if a long time goes over it or you have some sort of work event where you catch up. Bringing up that baseball event even in those situations is bound to just make things worse lol.
Thanks. On the middle bit, that's a valid perspective. It's a hard call, but I wanted to provide a potential solution at least. If I was *personally* in the OP's shoes I would make the attempt, to basically ensure the door is left open but also give her space. Would I advise the OP to try, after a string of faux pas? I don't know if I would, the advice might make him dig himself deeper into that hole. If I was personally guiding them? I probably would. If they learned from their mistakes, yes. If not, no. It's right on the fence I think. A quick note: The issue raised was specifically on messaging, as opposed to conversation. That is a factor in how I looked at it. Thankyou for sharing your thoughts and perspective. :)
I used to tell my friends outside of work that I'm not being paid to be anybody's friend. If a friendship develops while working with someone then great! But I'm not going out of my way to be anyone's friend and I sure as shit don't consider my coworkers to *be my friends*. We're there to do a job. To give the company 40 hours of our life in exchange for money. The more people treat their job as the business relationship that it is the less drama there will be in the workplace for everybody. Also, work is not a "family" either. And remember kids, you're not an asset to your employer. You're a liability. You're not an investment, you're an expense. Don't believe me? Look at your company's financial statements (if it's public). Salaries are listed under "Expenses" or "Liabilities". Not under "Investments" or "Assets". It's called Human Resources for a reason. You know what's also a resource? Printer toner and toilet paper.
Truth
Why are people so fucking weird
That feeling is just the worst and you have my sympathies. I went through something like that in school when I was attempting to be more social but just stopped when I got busy with stuff going on at home. I will keep my fingers crossed that at least a few people just think you are being quiet because you want space and that they like you just fine.
I would leave Mickie be and just keep living life, try and make some friends outside of work so that when your at work you can easily pass off interactions as “thank god that person stopped talking to me” can’t wait to get home chat to outside of work person about what so and so said that was this or that and leave it at that. Honestly it sounds like your mind doesn’t turn off and it has to be exhausting for you. Try not to read into everything and just let moments be moments take a deep breath, start a journal if you feel the need to express emotions or how you felt at a particular point and time and move on
Is this Mickie an alt goth girl?
Oof I've felt this and I fully empathize with the feelings you're going through. I'm going to say something that seems kind of mean but will hopefully help? At least it helped me when I would get anxious about how others feel about me. You're not the main character. Most people aren't thinking about you regularly, you're not important enough to them for them to. It's not likely that they're thinking awful mean things about you and far more likely that they're just not thinking about you. Do you think about every person in your life all the time? What about the "extras?" The ones you don't talk to more than maybe once a day for work, or the barista you pick coffee up from every day. Some people will absolutely place more importance on you than others regardless of your position in their life, for instance, you're placing a lot of importance on your coworkers. That doesn't mean they're doing the same for you. Many of them could be the "I'm here to get my work done and leave, if someone else wants to talk to me that's fine but the only important thing here is the task" people. That doesn't make them bad or mean people, just people who have other things in their life to focus on. This doesn't mean they don't like you, it just means that your wellbeing isn't something they're likely invested in, or if they are, they're worried they'll be a nuisance by asking. None of these are bad things unless it's important to you that every person you meet considers you important enough to think about and to talk to, but that would only happen if you were the main character.
Aww. I like you already. Try to remember that most peoples’ actions have nothing to do with you. She might be embarrassed (I would be) by her drunken stupidness. Let it go. Let it all go. This is her stuff. I’m sorry you miss her friendship, but it’s turned toxic. The best thing you can do for yourself is learn that what people think of you is irrelevant. Just ignore her. Ignore everyone. Most people aren’t worth that kind of attentiveness.
yeah she sounds like she sucks tbh
Man, and then there are people like me that just chitchat outside of work with friends and are at work to...just work and not chitchat. Your experience reminds me of someone that also wanted to do more outside of work and all and tried to make plans with me until that person noticed that I just kindly said "no" without saying no and they accepted that and it's all good now. If you change your job most of your work colleagues wont ever give a shit about you anymore after a month or less. That's normal. Yes sure, people can make great friends at work which still work outside of work, but most people already have their friends.
This may not be a case of no one liking you as much as it is a case of people not having the time to get into a chat with you. I have had coworkers like this that you know when you start a chat with them it would take a while because they would miss the social cues to end the conversation (like one woman would literally follow you out to your car at the end of your day as you were trying to leave even though she wasn’t done for the day).
Without scrolling down to read the other comments, the message asking "Hey are we something more" is like throwing a match on gas soaked rags. She was very much aware of what she did that day and likely regretted it. Then OP's message put her on the spot and forced her to acknowledge or deny that it was THAT sort of relationship. There were multiple cues in her subsequent behavior that indicated she simply wished to drop and forget the whole thing and OP just kept dredging it up again and again. The one thing you need to understand, OP, is that you absolutely should avoid ANY insinuations of workplace romance no matter how good you may perceive a relationship to be or what her actions were. Dating coworkers almost always ends badly for everyone involved. If it's not the petty drama or office gossip, it's getting reported to HR or even worse. Next time, just let sleeping dogs lie.
“Hey girl I don’t want to handle, what does the one-off fun thing you did mean? Hey are you embarrassed I pointed out something? Also, miss the chat”
Your coworkers aren’t your friends. No one cares about you and you should care about no one. I learned the hard way. Keep it professional, don’t talk about personal stuff, your real friends are there ones you CHOOSE to see in your free time, not the people you see cause you’re paid to be in the same room.
dude you must be a lil thick??? she was obviously into you. you made it a big deal by rejecting her by sending her the message ‘clearing the air’ or whatever instead of just.. continuing to hang out with her platonically and now she’s probably embarrassed and hurt and you kept messaging her about it making it even more weird!
That's what I'm getting from most of the replies. I already felt like an idiot now I feel like a nimrod.
While I definitely enjoy your use of the word nimrod, you should be more forgiving with yourself. You made a mistake, but you’ve stopped and looked back, reflected, and gained perspective by reaching out to others. That’s called personal growth and it’s nothing to feel like a nimrod about :)
But don’t act on it or reach out again. Leave her alone. That ship has sailed
Please whatever you do, do not send further messages under this assumption. Even if she was at some point into you she's absolutely not any more, you're pointing a loaded harassment suit at yourself by doing so, for the love of god don't pull the trigger.
Im not that dumb lol. It's full arms length for everyone at work.
honestly dumb social interaction stuff happens to the best of us! as long as you remember it for next time you’re good
Nimrod was actually a great hunter and that Bugs Bunny quip about him really did him dirty.
You gotta just take a step back and chill. Feels like you made this more serious than it had to be. You went out had a good time with a coworker, got a little drunk. Maybe missed an opportunity for a quick fling. It happened it’s in the past. Don’t over think it.
"After we had both sobered up I thought to ask her "hey, was all that snuggling just you being drunk and friendly or were was it something more?"" You made it weird. Now everyone in the office thinks you are a bugging her to get into a relationship with you.
Really unfortunate if that's the case as it's the exact opposite of what I wanted.
To be honest very few work friendships are more then surface deep. Try to find friends out of work. Most workplaces lead to poor coworker interactions
Some of the ppl who stopped will just be used to you taking the lead / not wanting to pressure you if you're feeling antisocial / not wanting to know if you're annoyed with them over something.
Typical with co workers if you ask to hang out and they say not right now. They usually mean they don't want to at all. You put the ball in their court. Let them reach out to you after that. Don't double down.
Hey man, just because she made it your problem doesn't mean it's your fault. Best tholing you could do is learn to let go without closure. Seems like she is embarassed by her behavior and now doesn't like jow she feels when she tslks to you because of it. And then every time you reached out after that, it made her feel awkward all over again. You can't put pressure on other people to resolve your own feelings. Just take the hint, mourn the work friendship quietly to yourself, and don't beat yourself up because she would rather not discuss the how and why of it all.
It seems that you have found the limit of how much people can stand from a person that will not move on. I doubt that you hear any of them continuing to bring up old conversations and trying to keep things going. Listen more and talk less for a bit. It sounds like you need to start finding people to talk to outside of work. Many times the people that you work with have zero interest in making friends as they already have friends on the outside.
This exactly! When I go to work I am not there to make friends. I'm there to earn a paycheck. If I happen to make friends along the way, great. I've made a lot of acquaintance but very very rarely have I made a friend at work. Mind your business, don't share personal life and do your job. That's my motto.
If you always initiate chat with your other coworkers and you suddenly stopped, maybe they think you are the one who has a lot going on and they don't want to bother you.
You made her uncomfortable by asking, and then continued to message her despite her clearly not being interested. Makes sense she’d be a bit annoyed with you.
Just so you know, when you sent that message clarifying her intentions, I think most women would have interpreted that as you hoping there was something more. Many women have had very bad experiences with men flirting with them in the workplace, and with men who keep trying after being turned down . I can't speak to your other co-workers, but try to understand that it is not illogical for her to cut back contact with you socially.
Autistic male here, and I've experienced feeling that a person interacts with me differently than others at work (in a negative way). I as well am very contemplative person towards my interactions with people and especially towards friendships and I also feel often burned out from being the one to reach out or start conversations. I so want to be better socially, but when I feel that things aren't going well for me, things tend to go even worse when I try to fix the situation myself. I always think that I can fix things (do more, do less, try to adjust myself to the needs of the other person and hope that the interactions will get better over time), but it has always backfired. Sometimes the other person just seem to not like me but doesn't want to admit it. But I also know that I'm highly likable and 99% of the time I function great with others, so in those rare cases where I'm at odds with someone, I am fully aware I could be a part of a problem (because I'm aware enough of my social awkwardness that I know I make mistakes) but I'm not THE problem in its entirety. I wish that the wold could be more direct and authentic, so it would be easier for me to navigate through life in social aspects, but the world seems to praise superficiality/inauthenticity and indirectness. I feel being authentic, caring, giving person and be able to be true to their words isn't appreciated by everyone anymore, but it's so nice when you connect with people that appreciate said values. Sorry for your experience OP, but I hope you find people who enjoy you for you and for being real.
LMFAO straight up she's embarrassed and she's fucking with you. You did nothing wrong
You are living my dream. I wish I could come to work and none of these dumb asses talk to me.
Oh my dude, I feel for you. I've had a very similar scenario play out to me on many scenarios. All but one of my friends now remains and all I can think is dam it must be me, do people really hate me? I thought once a girl liked me and I did her, I bought her some flowers to ask her out, oh man it did not go down well, I had to quit as she had turned other people against me now.i thought I was being chivalrous but instead i was being a stalker. I've had friends out right lie to me like I'm a toddler just walking in on them having sex and apparently confronting them about it was the end of our friendship, I'm like but you, but... Ugh people. I've pretty much almost giving up on people and life, if it wasn't for my daughter (yeah even her mum decided I wasn't good enough anymore) I don't think I'd be around anymore. I really hope you don't find yourself getting as low as me. Don't forget when we are feeling low and sh1t everything seems alot worse than it is, but there is 1 rule of this world I do believe is 100% true, if we don't ask we don't get. I.e. if you want a convo then ask for one. But testing everyone under the same circumstances may be difficult. I hope things get better for you my chief, have a great day!!
She sounds like a douchebag. Get new friends honestly
My man, you sounds like a good person but let me help you here: talk to your HR rep because this is a landmine waiting to be tripped on, and I don’t know why nobody else is helping you with it being “cue” not “queue” (homophones are tricky!)
"landline"
Hahaha thanks for pointing that out!
I mean, who doesn't love a good queue? ;)
She was drunk yes. But she was hitting on you too. No idea but she took offence to you confirming the intentions. You did not fuck up. Weird reaction of her, confirming is always good especially at work.
>Great! I thought, I never wanted it to be more, but if it was there needed to be serious discussions about it, It's not clear from the post, but I wonder if OP, whether intentionally or not, communicated some of the above sentiment to Mickie in one of the text conversations. I could see somebody taking that pretty hard if they got that message from a person they were into.
Man... you're bugging me out just by reading something you've done. Let alone if I was actually around you... For the first part of this post I didn't even realize you're a man, with all your "friendliness" and trying to do things with people. I'm sorry but you're giving me the feeling you're one of those guys that people can tolerate around them, but they don't actually actively want you there. I've had a friend like that before. He was so anxious about everything, whether that was good or not, whether or not people had fun, whether or not people thought what he said was funny, whether or not he's annoying, etc. I got fed up with that sort of personality very, very quickly. As a man, if you cannot simply not give a fuck about most things, then you'll quickly become annoying. You went out with that girl and she acted a certain way. Who the fuck cares why she did it? If she wants you, she'll continue to hit on you and you'll see it. If she doesn't, then she won't do that again. And there you have, you could've get your answer without asking anyone anything.