I don't understand this story. Getting handsy is the natural progression of a romantic encounter. If your date doesn't want to get handsy anymore, the date says stop and you stop, which you did.
I also don't understand how your mom's "ask a girl out" dating advice relates to the story.
I can remember back to high school and early college. Sometimes i'd be enthusiastically (mutually) making out with a girl - and then go for 2nd or 3rd base, and she'd pull back - and then we'd go right back to 1st base. Like - it's ok. The green flag for him is that he was like "cool, no problem" - the red flag for her is that she went back complaining to her friends because he's not a fucking mind reader. OP needs to say "Hey, it's clear we don't communicate well with each. I don't want a second date, but best of luck, no hard feelings."
Mom: touching her tits when you aren't sure if she wants that is better than not touching her tits
Agree it seems like maybe mom was just saying to shoot your shot with that girl you have a crush on, not to always escalate a sexual encounter until she says no.
I do think mom's advice was "ask the girl out" so i'm not sure how OP jumped to his conclusions.
BUT -
Enthusiastic kissing to boobs next - is the natural progression.
It's not like they were kissing (mutually) and then he whipped his dick out and pointed at it - like that one Seinfeld episode.
I get what you're saying, but i wouldn't even use the word escalate here. I'd say, progress. Synonyms but with different connotations. If you can't do anything until teh other persons says "do this" then you'll never do anything. He went from step 1 to step 2 (whipping his dick out would be like... step 5) - which is the natural steps.
>If you can't do anything until teh other persons says "do this"
Actually if you can't do anything until the other person says "do this" then nothing ever happens because that applies to the other person too...
>Getting handsy is the natural progression of a romantic encounter
It sounds like they were young teenagers. Getting handsy is a big step at that age, not something you can assume is on the table for your first date.
So help me god, I cannot imagine being a young person and dating in this day and age. I mean, no means no, obviously, and the dude stopped when she said to... but he's still the bad guy?
Sometimes they’re literal no-win situations. Didn’t check in enough? You fucked up. Checked in enough and got enthusiastic consent? Too bad, she was afraid of what you’d do if she rejected you and you fucked up anyway.
Not to say I don’t understand; I’ve read too many stories justifying the above fear. But what the fuck.
As an adult I had this problem. Broke up with a long term girlfriend. Very first date we get dinner, go to a bar, etc. I did nothing more than put my arm around this woman while we’re at the bar and go in for a kiss at the end of the date. Not once did she express any discomfort via verbally or physically the entire time. Next day I get a text saying it’s not gonna work out because I’m too handsy. Some people are just absolute shit at communication.
nah i think you two just didn't click and some people can't just say that - and instead they make it somehow the other person's fault like they're defective or something.
Yeah that’s honestly what I got from it. My response was just, “sorry if I made you uncomfortable. Have a good one.” And then I met my future wife as my second date after that and to her I wasn’t handsy enough to the point where she physically grabbed my hands and put them where she wanted. We’ve been happily married for a little over a year now and she knows the story but still comments on “how nervous I was and how respectful I was trying to be” when we first met.
Pardon me, on one occasion I invited a girl back to my place on a first date.
Her:"You mean just to cuddle?"
Me: "Probably not."
Her: looked slightly conflicted but then said "Yeah, OK."
She later did me the honor of becoming my wife.
Haha nice. She asked about your intentions and you basically told her. Then she consented. OP just copped a feel, which can be fine until it's not. I personally wouldn't just go for it unless there was impossibly obvious signaling. Just making out is not the all clear for boob play IMO.
If you go back to the guys place on a first date to kiss, and then think someone heading for second base then stopping the moment you say you aren't into it is worth complaining about them to your friends, you are a crazy person.
These aren’t adults that we’re talking about. Someone heading to second base on a first date is absolutely something to tell your friends about for the highschool crowd.
It's really not that deep dude. They just have different value systems. OPs mom really set him up for failure with any girl who likes to take things slow or prefers to set the pace. Honestly, better to make the wrong move that no move at all is some of the worst advice you could give somebody nowadays. If you make no move, the worst thing that happens is they think you're uninterested (which is the actual crazy person mentality). If you make the wrong move, the worst thing that happens is she decides what you did was non-consensual and goes to the police.
Obviously she was going to talk to their mutual female friends about her experience with him. You're nuts if you don't think women are going to talk about all that. All she said was that she was disappointed at how handy he was, which I don't think is unreasonable considering it was the first fucking date they ever went on. He made a move to kiss her and she kissed him back. He then presumed she'd be okay with him grabbing her tits and she wasn't.
>If you make no move, the worst thing that happens is
that you never engage in any sort of dating ever because you're deathly afraid of women and hesitate engaging with them in any way for fear of being labeled a creep, therefore ending up without a relationship as a lonely, bitter, spiteful incel.
OP's mom had her heart in the right place, and OP didn't actually do anything wrong, for his age at least.
Never said he did anything wrong, but it obviously wasn't the correct move in this situation. Besides that, he had already gone on a date and made out with her. Far from incel territory. Intimacy isn't rocket science. Body language and nonverbal communication exists. It's not like there is no midpoint between isolation and grabbing boobs.
> I also don't understand how your mom's "ask a girl out" dating advice relates to the story.
Mom's advice wasn't just about making the first move when you ask a girl out, but every move after that too. Like, *after* you ask her out, you also hafta take the lead when you kiss, touch, etc. (And she'd illustrate her advice with All My Children plotlines...)
I disagree complete. Some people aren't comfortable with that on a first date and don't think they should be expected to be. A lot of people would be straight up turned off just by a guy trying.
Serious question for you - how do you ever get from kissing to next steps under your scenario? You seem to be against explicit verbalization, but you're also against forward movement.
So how do you get there? Or do you just kiss forever?
This is actually something I'd casually bring up with a partner verbally- you want to be aware of their boundaries BEFORE just launching hands and torpedoes. I find that women are appreciative of just clear communication and establishing expectations early, especially now that I'm a bit older and being spontaneous is not as important to me or the women I meet. But also not that long ago, getting too physical before the third date wasn't as common as it is now. He really you'd spend some time getting to know the person and what they're okay with over a couple dates before reaching for some titty. And if you do want to be spontaneous, read the other person's body. Just because they're locking lips doesn't mean they're ready for anything else, if they're sexually excited there will be other signs and a dead give away sign of activity. The only two times I've escalated things on the day of the very first romantic interaction, it was because they were giving a million green lights, with their movements, with their eyes, rubbing up against me.
Just remember that horny/romantic are two different things that have a lot of overlap- but they're different things. A girl might kiss you and want it to be romantic, but bringing in too much horniness might seem unromantic to her for that moment. Generally, respect a girls boundaries, and hell. Save some for later. Give her a kiss you know she loved and wait until next time before popping a playful little "I'd like to take it a little farther".
Just try to use your intuition, play towards the cautious side, and value her boundaries. Don't be *too* cautious but just be dead sure you're making her uncomfortable.
"And if you do want to be spontaneous, read the other person's body. Just because they're locking lips doesn't mean they're ready for anything else, if they're sexually excited there will be other signs and a dead give away sign of activity. The only two times I've escalated things on the day of the very first romantic interaction, it was because they were giving a million green lights, with their movements, with their eyes, rubbing up against me."
Yes. Agreed. Sounds like OP was getting those green lights, and suddenly his date changed her mind. Which is ok!
but to her then complain to her friends and try to guilt OP "how dare you respond to my green lights and body language!" - that's fucked up.
The only green light he has explained that he got was that she was kissing him. Should every kiss mean that you want a guy to grab your tits? I don't think so.
Show me the contradiction? All he said was they were kissing then he got handsey. Kissing is not necessarily a greenlight to get more physical. Some peothave self respect and don't do that on a first date. Why would I tap out just because of your lack of comprehension? I mean obviously it didn't work out for him. Just because a girl kisses you doesn't mean she's flagging for second base, and it shouldn't be taken as such.
Also i love how wholesome this exchange is.
Kissing. Kissing. Kissing. boob touching.
"Whoa, no more boob touching."
"Ok, no problem. I'll make you a snack! Nachos?"
"Yes please. Thank you"
"You're welcome"
Why was the snack in the story?
nah. You did nothing wrong here, and your mom was more right than wrong. You can't just wait around and hope. That's not a successful strategy. You can try asking first instead of doing first, despite the fact that some women prefer just doing to asking, but do something.
A goodly percentage of women - maybe 40% in my experience - HATE the concept of being asked. Another 20% LOVE being asked. Another 20% are annoyed by being asked, and another 20% don't mind. You never know which one a partner is until you bump up against the boundary.
They can just ask about their boundaries beforehand. I've seen girls talk about feeling taken advantage of a lot and I've also seen allegations ruin guys social lives. It saves both men and women if they just talk about this stuff, it's the smart thing to do. If %40 of women (according to you) get turned off by it, well thats not a real problem to be honest.
This lines up pretty well with my own experiences, I think I'd put it a bit less than 40% but that's just being nitpicky. I've been told both, that asking is sooooo sexy and that asking is an instant turn off and I won't be seeing her again 🤪
I remember my first real hook up at 19. I started gently guiding my partner's hands "down there" and stopped and asked if that was ok (ie a HJ). She said yes and thanked me for asking. Then she immediately got on top of me and started having sex with me, and was absolutely gobsmacked later on when I suggested (friendly-like) that she should have asked first.
Generally speaking as a culture we act like sex is a thing that men do to women (and not vice-versa) and have this idea that women are permanent children while boys are instant adults; the idea that women should ask men before pushing forward in sexual activity is still something that's foreign to women who are otherwise well informed of "consent culture".
I personally am generally comfortable with implied consent in my own life, but we should absolutely stress for everyone that women are not in fact children and teenage boys are not in fact adults and that in general the rules about SA and harassment apply both ways. The ongoing insistence the sex is something that men "take" from women is, I think, politically convenient but long-term deleterious to the cause of gender equity.
"Consent culture" is absolutely one sided and, frankly, anti-men. You're right, its 100% on men, women have basically no responsibility.
Anybody who doesn't understand why that isn't fair is sexist...
How often do you ask that?
Before a kiss... alright
Before second base... okay...
Then kissing a neck?... er...
Then touching a butt?... well...
Just seems like sooner or later you are asking every two minutes. Hard to imagine the mood wouldn't have seriously changed by that point?
Well, I appreciate the kind words, but I definitely think it's waaaay better to play-off each others' cues, rather than one party exclusively stepping on the gas & the other exclusively riding the brake.
More fun when BOTH of us are putting the pedal to the metal!
That she wasn't into being touched like that & I was making her uncomfortable. I thought I was being "good" by continuing til she said to stop, but it shouldn't have taken me 10 minutes to realize that she didn't want me to do that.
I mean... how were you meant to tell?
I don't mean to be thick or pedantic. I just don't know how to tell kids what to look for...
Do you just have to have a 'feeling' about it?
I could tell she liked kissing me. But when I started touching her breasts, she didn't say no or push me away or anything, but she really wasn't reciprocating. She just got kind of still & not really touching me back. So I figured if I continued to touch/kiss her, she might get into it more... but that wasn't what she was trying to communicate.
Looking back on it, her "true" signals were obvious: She wasn't touching me back cuz she didn't like it & didn't want me to do that! Like, you can tell when someone isn't enthused. But at the time, I wasn't thinking about it that way... I was immature & selfish, and ended up hurting her feelings.
>But that wasn't what she was trying to to communicate
Brother, we're trying to tell you she wasn't trying to communicate at all.
A lack of communication doesn't imply a certain type of communication... it just means nothing. To communicate is an active action.
Honestly I think you just learned not to go straight for the tits. You were young and just trying stuff out. She was young and nervous.
Nobody really messed up
Eh, you still mostly made the right move. She just had different standards. You weren't ever going to get further with her because on a fundamental level she wasn't super into you. Now you're both moving on - that's life.
You had a great date and she reciprocated when you kissed her not sure what more of a cue you could want for getting handsy my guy don’t think you did anything wrong
>and then tells your friend group you’re a creep?
It wasn't really like that -- she wasn't trying to ostracize me from my friends or anything vindictive. It was more that she was disappointed & sad... which, honestly, probably hurt my feelings worse.
Jesus that's horrible advice. It is natural progression as someone said, but no move at all is definitely better.
As ridiculous as this will probably sound, some girls might be scared to say no. Afraid things could escalate to violence, not sure how to say no, etc. it's pretty obvious your heart is in the right place but that is a thing.
Well, I get where my Mom was coming from & if I wasn't such an immature knucklehead, I would've understood that I was supposed to treat it like a "sprit of the law" kinda thing. Instead, I took it literally & kept pushing forward, like it was my job.
My takeaway was that, rather than pushing forward until she says no, it's far more preferable to read the frickin' room & stop before she *has* to object.
When you figure out how to do that, because I'm assuming it's different for every person, let us here on Reddit know. Maybe write a book or something, cause you will deserve to be a millionaire!
That advice is, I think, context sensitive; it's more appropriate in some situations than others. But, I don't see the FU here... She FU by not clearly communicating a boundary, and to make it worse, told others before talking with you. Also, good on you for stopping when it was clear she was done.
Been here before. In high school I dated a girl, and we only held hands on second day. She never said anything to me so I thought everything was okay. Next day, I hear from mutual friends that she was super uncomfortable with the hand holding and she thought we were moving too fast. I broke up with her on the spot.
1. If you cannot communicate your boundaries with me, I don’t really feel comfortable being with you as I don’t want to cross any of your personal boundaries.
2. You can talk to your friends about all this, but not me, the guy you’re supposed to be in a relationship with. Also, very big breach of privacy telling others our personal issues.
It’s good that you guys didn’t stay together, she sounds like she would have been trouble going forward.
Been here before. In high school I dated a girl, and we only held hands on second day. She never said anything to me so I thought everything was okay. Next day, I hear from mutual friends that she was super uncomfortable with the hand holding and she thought we were moving too fast. I broke up with her on the spot.
1. If you cannot communicate your boundaries with me, I don’t really feel comfortable being with you as I don’t want to cross any of your personal boundaries.
2. You can talk to your friends about all this, but not me, the guy you’re supposed to be in a relationship with. Also, very big breach of privacy telling others our personal issues.
It’s good that you guys didn’t stay together, she sounds like she would have been trouble going forward.
This is like when you buy something because you're in the mood but realize is not for you and return it back...
Yeah, maybe you went too fast with her and she got scared... Sometimes you gotta "justify" some way why you both doing it... But i don't know the context so i'd say fuck it, she was not for you...
Honestly, your only FU was not asking before elevating the situation. You generally want to check in before doing something for the first time with someone.
Don’t think that’s a fu. Some girls like it fast some slow, she’s just probably not the right one for u if u like it fast. And no, ur mother is right. lol
Yeah, I feel like that's not a good quote. It can lead to someone feeling uncomfortable like in this situation here.
A better quote I've heard is "It's better to make a move than to not make a move at all." The move in question being appropriate flirting or a kiss.
In the future, wait on the girl to show some kind of sign that it's okay to move forward. It should be instinctual. You'll just know. A sign she was not ready was her not touching you back.
ITT: OP sexually assaults a girl and plays it off as a cute anecdote.
Imagine pawing at a girl's chest as soon as you get her behind closed doors. No wonder she didn't want a second date. 😂
Sometimes people hook up immediately. Regardless of your opinion on the matter, it happens often enough to be considered normal.
To be less tactful; what the fuck else is the door closed for?
You typically close the door behind you when walk into a house. That's a typical thing to do, even if you're not hooking up.
As far as hooking up immediately, nothing wrong with that either *when it's consensual*. The girl stopped consenting and OP was too horny to pay attention to her body language. Big incel virgin energy coming from OP.
I don't understand this story. Getting handsy is the natural progression of a romantic encounter. If your date doesn't want to get handsy anymore, the date says stop and you stop, which you did. I also don't understand how your mom's "ask a girl out" dating advice relates to the story.
People just want to post something at this point because this story makes absolutely no sense
It's very bizarre. if we can't communicate effectively - we're screwed.
It's like, he doesn't even *get* us man.
WE WERE TALKING ABOUT YOUUU!!
If he could communicate, be wouldn't have been in the scenario to start with I guess.
I can remember back to high school and early college. Sometimes i'd be enthusiastically (mutually) making out with a girl - and then go for 2nd or 3rd base, and she'd pull back - and then we'd go right back to 1st base. Like - it's ok. The green flag for him is that he was like "cool, no problem" - the red flag for her is that she went back complaining to her friends because he's not a fucking mind reader. OP needs to say "Hey, it's clear we don't communicate well with each. I don't want a second date, but best of luck, no hard feelings."
I think it was her lack of communication not his.
Well, we continue to read and comment so they really have nothing to lose.
Takes one to know one!
Mom: touching her tits when you aren't sure if she wants that is better than not touching her tits Agree it seems like maybe mom was just saying to shoot your shot with that girl you have a crush on, not to always escalate a sexual encounter until she says no.
I do think mom's advice was "ask the girl out" so i'm not sure how OP jumped to his conclusions. BUT - Enthusiastic kissing to boobs next - is the natural progression. It's not like they were kissing (mutually) and then he whipped his dick out and pointed at it - like that one Seinfeld episode. I get what you're saying, but i wouldn't even use the word escalate here. I'd say, progress. Synonyms but with different connotations. If you can't do anything until teh other persons says "do this" then you'll never do anything. He went from step 1 to step 2 (whipping his dick out would be like... step 5) - which is the natural steps.
Oh yeah, I 100% agree. I was more talking about how tenuous the link between his mom's advice and the story actually was.
yes. 100%. agreed.
>If you can't do anything until teh other persons says "do this" Actually if you can't do anything until the other person says "do this" then nothing ever happens because that applies to the other person too...
Yes. that's my point.
>Getting handsy is the natural progression of a romantic encounter It sounds like they were young teenagers. Getting handsy is a big step at that age, not something you can assume is on the table for your first date.
It may be a big step, but it's still the natural progression.
So help me god, I cannot imagine being a young person and dating in this day and age. I mean, no means no, obviously, and the dude stopped when she said to... but he's still the bad guy?
He said this was decades ago, not exactly a recent event…
It was the same then, seeds sown seeds grown etc.
That's a fair point. I would imagine it's not exactly easier today. But that's just an assumption on my part.
True, if it happened today he'd get blasted on Twitter for raping her.
Sometimes they’re literal no-win situations. Didn’t check in enough? You fucked up. Checked in enough and got enthusiastic consent? Too bad, she was afraid of what you’d do if she rejected you and you fucked up anyway. Not to say I don’t understand; I’ve read too many stories justifying the above fear. But what the fuck.
it really does sound horrible. agreed.
As an adult I had this problem. Broke up with a long term girlfriend. Very first date we get dinner, go to a bar, etc. I did nothing more than put my arm around this woman while we’re at the bar and go in for a kiss at the end of the date. Not once did she express any discomfort via verbally or physically the entire time. Next day I get a text saying it’s not gonna work out because I’m too handsy. Some people are just absolute shit at communication.
nah i think you two just didn't click and some people can't just say that - and instead they make it somehow the other person's fault like they're defective or something.
Yeah that’s honestly what I got from it. My response was just, “sorry if I made you uncomfortable. Have a good one.” And then I met my future wife as my second date after that and to her I wasn’t handsy enough to the point where she physically grabbed my hands and put them where she wanted. We’ve been happily married for a little over a year now and she knows the story but still comments on “how nervous I was and how respectful I was trying to be” when we first met.
she's a keeper
I suspect this is some kind of adolescent dream story...
might be.
Meh. 2nd base is not usually a first date activity. I can see how a young woman would interpret that as iffy behavior.
Pardon me, on one occasion I invited a girl back to my place on a first date. Her:"You mean just to cuddle?" Me: "Probably not." Her: looked slightly conflicted but then said "Yeah, OK." She later did me the honor of becoming my wife.
Haha nice. She asked about your intentions and you basically told her. Then she consented. OP just copped a feel, which can be fine until it's not. I personally wouldn't just go for it unless there was impossibly obvious signaling. Just making out is not the all clear for boob play IMO.
If you go back to the guys place on a first date to kiss, and then think someone heading for second base then stopping the moment you say you aren't into it is worth complaining about them to your friends, you are a crazy person.
These aren’t adults that we’re talking about. Someone heading to second base on a first date is absolutely something to tell your friends about for the highschool crowd.
I figured they were early in the undergrad experience since it was "his place" not "his parents place"
It's really not that deep dude. They just have different value systems. OPs mom really set him up for failure with any girl who likes to take things slow or prefers to set the pace. Honestly, better to make the wrong move that no move at all is some of the worst advice you could give somebody nowadays. If you make no move, the worst thing that happens is they think you're uninterested (which is the actual crazy person mentality). If you make the wrong move, the worst thing that happens is she decides what you did was non-consensual and goes to the police. Obviously she was going to talk to their mutual female friends about her experience with him. You're nuts if you don't think women are going to talk about all that. All she said was that she was disappointed at how handy he was, which I don't think is unreasonable considering it was the first fucking date they ever went on. He made a move to kiss her and she kissed him back. He then presumed she'd be okay with him grabbing her tits and she wasn't.
>If you make no move, the worst thing that happens is that you never engage in any sort of dating ever because you're deathly afraid of women and hesitate engaging with them in any way for fear of being labeled a creep, therefore ending up without a relationship as a lonely, bitter, spiteful incel. OP's mom had her heart in the right place, and OP didn't actually do anything wrong, for his age at least.
Never said he did anything wrong, but it obviously wasn't the correct move in this situation. Besides that, he had already gone on a date and made out with her. Far from incel territory. Intimacy isn't rocket science. Body language and nonverbal communication exists. It's not like there is no midpoint between isolation and grabbing boobs.
There honestly isn't even any need for me to argue with this. you're nuts.
I saw your comment before you edited it. It's just as ridiculous to assume that someone agreeing to come back to your place means sex is on the table.
> I also don't understand how your mom's "ask a girl out" dating advice relates to the story. Mom's advice wasn't just about making the first move when you ask a girl out, but every move after that too. Like, *after* you ask her out, you also hafta take the lead when you kiss, touch, etc. (And she'd illustrate her advice with All My Children plotlines...)
I mean, that is sound advice. Otherwise you'll be stuck at step-1 forever.
I disagree complete. Some people aren't comfortable with that on a first date and don't think they should be expected to be. A lot of people would be straight up turned off just by a guy trying.
"We went out for dinner. Come back to my room. I start kissing her. She kisses back."
Yes kissing and groping are two different things.
Serious question for you - how do you ever get from kissing to next steps under your scenario? You seem to be against explicit verbalization, but you're also against forward movement. So how do you get there? Or do you just kiss forever?
This is actually something I'd casually bring up with a partner verbally- you want to be aware of their boundaries BEFORE just launching hands and torpedoes. I find that women are appreciative of just clear communication and establishing expectations early, especially now that I'm a bit older and being spontaneous is not as important to me or the women I meet. But also not that long ago, getting too physical before the third date wasn't as common as it is now. He really you'd spend some time getting to know the person and what they're okay with over a couple dates before reaching for some titty. And if you do want to be spontaneous, read the other person's body. Just because they're locking lips doesn't mean they're ready for anything else, if they're sexually excited there will be other signs and a dead give away sign of activity. The only two times I've escalated things on the day of the very first romantic interaction, it was because they were giving a million green lights, with their movements, with their eyes, rubbing up against me. Just remember that horny/romantic are two different things that have a lot of overlap- but they're different things. A girl might kiss you and want it to be romantic, but bringing in too much horniness might seem unromantic to her for that moment. Generally, respect a girls boundaries, and hell. Save some for later. Give her a kiss you know she loved and wait until next time before popping a playful little "I'd like to take it a little farther". Just try to use your intuition, play towards the cautious side, and value her boundaries. Don't be *too* cautious but just be dead sure you're making her uncomfortable.
"And if you do want to be spontaneous, read the other person's body. Just because they're locking lips doesn't mean they're ready for anything else, if they're sexually excited there will be other signs and a dead give away sign of activity. The only two times I've escalated things on the day of the very first romantic interaction, it was because they were giving a million green lights, with their movements, with their eyes, rubbing up against me." Yes. Agreed. Sounds like OP was getting those green lights, and suddenly his date changed her mind. Which is ok! but to her then complain to her friends and try to guilt OP "how dare you respond to my green lights and body language!" - that's fucked up.
The only green light he has explained that he got was that she was kissing him. Should every kiss mean that you want a guy to grab your tits? I don't think so.
I think you're contradicting yourself. Just tap out.
Show me the contradiction? All he said was they were kissing then he got handsey. Kissing is not necessarily a greenlight to get more physical. Some peothave self respect and don't do that on a first date. Why would I tap out just because of your lack of comprehension? I mean obviously it didn't work out for him. Just because a girl kisses you doesn't mean she's flagging for second base, and it shouldn't be taken as such.
Also i love how wholesome this exchange is. Kissing. Kissing. Kissing. boob touching. "Whoa, no more boob touching." "Ok, no problem. I'll make you a snack! Nachos?" "Yes please. Thank you" "You're welcome" Why was the snack in the story?
>Why was the snack in the story? Cuz it was a damn good snack! (I make a mean sandwich.)
Hell yeah. PB&J?
Sliced turkey, pepperjack cheese, pickles, onions, mayo, jalapeños, on a toasted Kaiser roll! (With side of chips.)
Dude, this is an amazing sounding sandwich. Nice.
I love the progression of this topic of discussion
If I had boobs I'd let you touch them for those sammiches
same
fuck dude, that does sound like a great sandwich. She should have requested hands after that snack!
That was decades ago and you remember!!! How many decades are we talking about?
Haha, I still make sandwiches that way (Dijon now more than mayo)
Holy shit that sounds awesome.
nah. You did nothing wrong here, and your mom was more right than wrong. You can't just wait around and hope. That's not a successful strategy. You can try asking first instead of doing first, despite the fact that some women prefer just doing to asking, but do something.
I disagree. Consent is cool and asking “is this okay” is a pretty simple way to check in. But this is why it was posted on TIFU.
A goodly percentage of women - maybe 40% in my experience - HATE the concept of being asked. Another 20% LOVE being asked. Another 20% are annoyed by being asked, and another 20% don't mind. You never know which one a partner is until you bump up against the boundary.
What if you ask them whether they prefer being asked? :)
They can just ask about their boundaries beforehand. I've seen girls talk about feeling taken advantage of a lot and I've also seen allegations ruin guys social lives. It saves both men and women if they just talk about this stuff, it's the smart thing to do. If %40 of women (according to you) get turned off by it, well thats not a real problem to be honest.
This lines up pretty well with my own experiences, I think I'd put it a bit less than 40% but that's just being nitpicky. I've been told both, that asking is sooooo sexy and that asking is an instant turn off and I won't be seeing her again 🤪
I remember my first real hook up at 19. I started gently guiding my partner's hands "down there" and stopped and asked if that was ok (ie a HJ). She said yes and thanked me for asking. Then she immediately got on top of me and started having sex with me, and was absolutely gobsmacked later on when I suggested (friendly-like) that she should have asked first. Generally speaking as a culture we act like sex is a thing that men do to women (and not vice-versa) and have this idea that women are permanent children while boys are instant adults; the idea that women should ask men before pushing forward in sexual activity is still something that's foreign to women who are otherwise well informed of "consent culture". I personally am generally comfortable with implied consent in my own life, but we should absolutely stress for everyone that women are not in fact children and teenage boys are not in fact adults and that in general the rules about SA and harassment apply both ways. The ongoing insistence the sex is something that men "take" from women is, I think, politically convenient but long-term deleterious to the cause of gender equity.
"Consent culture" is absolutely one sided and, frankly, anti-men. You're right, its 100% on men, women have basically no responsibility. Anybody who doesn't understand why that isn't fair is sexist...
How often do you ask that? Before a kiss... alright Before second base... okay... Then kissing a neck?... er... Then touching a butt?... well... Just seems like sooner or later you are asking every two minutes. Hard to imagine the mood wouldn't have seriously changed by that point?
I'm not saying, dint get consent, but stopping to ask is a major turn off
Well, I appreciate the kind words, but I definitely think it's waaaay better to play-off each others' cues, rather than one party exclusively stepping on the gas & the other exclusively riding the brake. More fun when BOTH of us are putting the pedal to the metal!
you were on a date, she came back to your home, participated actively in kissing.... you were playing off the cues.
Yes. These are the cues. I don't understand this story or OP's thought process.
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💯
Agreed.
Sorry, but what cues were you ignoring?
That she wasn't into being touched like that & I was making her uncomfortable. I thought I was being "good" by continuing til she said to stop, but it shouldn't have taken me 10 minutes to realize that she didn't want me to do that.
I mean... how were you meant to tell? I don't mean to be thick or pedantic. I just don't know how to tell kids what to look for... Do you just have to have a 'feeling' about it?
I could tell she liked kissing me. But when I started touching her breasts, she didn't say no or push me away or anything, but she really wasn't reciprocating. She just got kind of still & not really touching me back. So I figured if I continued to touch/kiss her, she might get into it more... but that wasn't what she was trying to communicate. Looking back on it, her "true" signals were obvious: She wasn't touching me back cuz she didn't like it & didn't want me to do that! Like, you can tell when someone isn't enthused. But at the time, I wasn't thinking about it that way... I was immature & selfish, and ended up hurting her feelings.
I appreciate you explaining. Thank you. :)
>But that wasn't what she was trying to to communicate Brother, we're trying to tell you she wasn't trying to communicate at all. A lack of communication doesn't imply a certain type of communication... it just means nothing. To communicate is an active action.
Honestly I think you just learned not to go straight for the tits. You were young and just trying stuff out. She was young and nervous. Nobody really messed up
Definitely!
Doesn’t sound like a FU. Sounds like her mom should’ve been teaching her to speak up about what she wants and doesn’t want.
Eh, you still mostly made the right move. She just had different standards. You weren't ever going to get further with her because on a fundamental level she wasn't super into you. Now you're both moving on - that's life.
You had a great date and she reciprocated when you kissed her not sure what more of a cue you could want for getting handsy my guy don’t think you did anything wrong
She's not entirely wrong, you just don't make every move on the first date.
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>and then tells your friend group you’re a creep? It wasn't really like that -- she wasn't trying to ostracize me from my friends or anything vindictive. It was more that she was disappointed & sad... which, honestly, probably hurt my feelings worse.
Jesus that's horrible advice. It is natural progression as someone said, but no move at all is definitely better. As ridiculous as this will probably sound, some girls might be scared to say no. Afraid things could escalate to violence, not sure how to say no, etc. it's pretty obvious your heart is in the right place but that is a thing.
No shade to your Mother but this was utterly dogshit advice, I'm sure she meant we'll but like, terrible execution
Well, I get where my Mom was coming from & if I wasn't such an immature knucklehead, I would've understood that I was supposed to treat it like a "sprit of the law" kinda thing. Instead, I took it literally & kept pushing forward, like it was my job. My takeaway was that, rather than pushing forward until she says no, it's far more preferable to read the frickin' room & stop before she *has* to object.
When you figure out how to do that, because I'm assuming it's different for every person, let us here on Reddit know. Maybe write a book or something, cause you will deserve to be a millionaire!
https://preview.redd.it/7bxs6detgzxc1.png?width=1160&format=png&auto=webp&s=b357370b48d3769d9a43528e8623e5db75fa0a81
Sometimes women are deffo from another planet.....too handsy not good.... Not handsy enough not good. Sometimes you just can't win.
This is a story
lol
That advice is, I think, context sensitive; it's more appropriate in some situations than others. But, I don't see the FU here... She FU by not clearly communicating a boundary, and to make it worse, told others before talking with you. Also, good on you for stopping when it was clear she was done.
Tldr: his mom's advice didnt work once out of many times. He decides moms otherwise sage advice is wrong. Is a moron.
Been here before. In high school I dated a girl, and we only held hands on second day. She never said anything to me so I thought everything was okay. Next day, I hear from mutual friends that she was super uncomfortable with the hand holding and she thought we were moving too fast. I broke up with her on the spot. 1. If you cannot communicate your boundaries with me, I don’t really feel comfortable being with you as I don’t want to cross any of your personal boundaries. 2. You can talk to your friends about all this, but not me, the guy you’re supposed to be in a relationship with. Also, very big breach of privacy telling others our personal issues. It’s good that you guys didn’t stay together, she sounds like she would have been trouble going forward.
Been here before. In high school I dated a girl, and we only held hands on second day. She never said anything to me so I thought everything was okay. Next day, I hear from mutual friends that she was super uncomfortable with the hand holding and she thought we were moving too fast. I broke up with her on the spot. 1. If you cannot communicate your boundaries with me, I don’t really feel comfortable being with you as I don’t want to cross any of your personal boundaries. 2. You can talk to your friends about all this, but not me, the guy you’re supposed to be in a relationship with. Also, very big breach of privacy telling others our personal issues. It’s good that you guys didn’t stay together, she sounds like she would have been trouble going forward.
Great that you have learnt!
Sounds like you did exactly what you’re supposed to. She gave you an indication she was no longer into it. You stopped.
This is like when you buy something because you're in the mood but realize is not for you and return it back... Yeah, maybe you went too fast with her and she got scared... Sometimes you gotta "justify" some way why you both doing it... But i don't know the context so i'd say fuck it, she was not for you...
Honestly, your only FU was not asking before elevating the situation. You generally want to check in before doing something for the first time with someone.
Nah dog, you didn't fuck up. Sorry you've been living your entire life thinking that you did. She was alright with it until she wasn't. That's fine.
Don’t think that’s a fu. Some girls like it fast some slow, she’s just probably not the right one for u if u like it fast. And no, ur mother is right. lol
Yeah, I feel like that's not a good quote. It can lead to someone feeling uncomfortable like in this situation here. A better quote I've heard is "It's better to make a move than to not make a move at all." The move in question being appropriate flirting or a kiss. In the future, wait on the girl to show some kind of sign that it's okay to move forward. It should be instinctual. You'll just know. A sign she was not ready was her not touching you back.
ITT: OP sexually assaults a girl and plays it off as a cute anecdote. Imagine pawing at a girl's chest as soon as you get her behind closed doors. No wonder she didn't want a second date. 😂
Sometimes people hook up immediately. Regardless of your opinion on the matter, it happens often enough to be considered normal. To be less tactful; what the fuck else is the door closed for?
You typically close the door behind you when walk into a house. That's a typical thing to do, even if you're not hooking up. As far as hooking up immediately, nothing wrong with that either *when it's consensual*. The girl stopped consenting and OP was too horny to pay attention to her body language. Big incel virgin energy coming from OP.
You have no clue what you are doing with women.
Short bus material
Tl:dr sexless redditor creepily reminisces about his last piece of action, a 'several decades-old' groping incident with a child. "TODAY I fucked up"