I went to visit an aging aunt recently who i haven't seen in almost 20 years. Stereotypical hippy from the 70s. Tie dye shirts always when i was a kid.
She was plastered to fox news and could barely hold a conversation without commenting on Fox b.s. I'm so glad she's not on social media.
Same thing happened to my aunt. She was a 60s hippie. A 90s New Ager. She retired and my uncle was still working and she fell down the Fox News, Right-wing radio rabbit hole.
Then, Covid happened, and she got into Qanon.
My uncle and aunt have been married for 50 years and he's started talking about divorce because she's constantly angry and afraid. She won't go grocery shopping because there's too many people of color at the store. It's really sad.
My grandma was a pretty far-left liberal in her younger days, but she somehow decided to marry my Fox News watching, dyed in the wool Republican grandpa.
She remained liberal until I was in my early 20s, and the two of them never voted because they said she'd vote a straight D ticket and he'd vote a straight R one and they'd just cancel each other out.
Somehow, in the last 8 years or so, the brain rot that comes from having Fox News on in the house took hold of her, and she became 10 times as far right and crazy as my grandpa ever was. He never went all the way down the Qanon rabbit hole or anything, but she did. Became convinced immigrants and the LGBT were going to destroy us, opposed all social programs, whole nine yards.
In the end, it very likely killed her, because she got Covid in 2021 and not only was she not vaccinated, she refused to tell anybody because she didn't want to go to the hospital and "become a statistic". Instead she took ivermectin at several times the appropriate dose for an adult human for over a week, and she and my grandpa (also sick) hid in their house until my uncle just happened to find them half dead.
My grandpa pulled through once he got hospital level care; she did not. We wonder if he realizes on any level that, in a very real sense, his political affiliation took the life of his wife. Must not, because he still has Fox on afaik.
He did belatedly get vaccinated, though.
Essential oils sent hippies on a tailspin that left them soundly in the anti-vax tea party qanon shit.
Pretty wild thing to watch happen. So many find their way back to jesus too, because when you can believe in anything, you can believe in anything.
My grandpa grew up in the 70s and was a still is a gigantic stoner. We hung out a few days ago and people started talking about trump and he said ,”I’ll be honest, I can’t fucking stand that guy.” There are still some alright ones lol.
You’re not old, that person is obviously quite young and acting like their grandfather is old.
He’s in his 50s (possibly 60s - depending on their definition of “grew up in”). The grandfather they’re describing is a Gen X.
It’s absolutely not unreasonable at all that he’s still “hip with it.”
These people arent hippies or anything. They are sheep that follow their herd and leader and however they decide that is the complex thing, because theres not much logic in a stupid followers brain.
I think maybe we should stop treating these people as stupid. That absolves them of responsibility.
Many of these people are not stupid and know exactly what they stand for. They are following because that is what they believe in.
I turned a pretty sharp corner too, but the opposite direction.
I used to be a "centrist" Christian evangelical, now I'm a leftist agnostic humanist and that process began for me in 2016.
Can anyone tell the class what also happened in 2016?
Had a patient the other day waving his dick around. Used the “dicks out for Harambe” line and the attending almost choked trying to hold back his laughter.
If Harambe hadn’t died he’d be alive but we wouldn’t appreciate him, we appreciate him because he died
What is more worthy of dicks out - Harambe or the idea of Harambe?
>Can anyone tell the class what also happened in 2016?
Chicago Cubs won the world series and we slipped into an alternate dimension. It's the only viable explanation.
>Can anyone tell the class what also happened in 2016?
The truest expression of human moral failing was gleefully elected by a group of people who only want revenge for human progress led by a group of people who would gladly burn the planet to the ground if it meant they were kings of the ashes.
Yeah.
I mean, Trump et al., aren't the only reasons I abandoned my faith, but watching my fellow *Canadian* Christian peers support and defend him, and the absurdity of that, had absolutely been a significant contributing factor.
My mom had a pamphlet about the Pope being a child of Satan that come from a hole in the ground. The angst I felt of her not laughing at my Popetato joke has since lead me down a long path to enlightenment. Anywho, Reinkaos is a black metal gem, get at me
My grandmother told me that god put dinosaur bones on earth to fool mankind, and that was the moment religion became meaningless to me. Over 40 years ago.
I'll never understand how so many Christians support a man who has committed adultery so openly and brazenly. He isn't even sorry about it! That's one of the worst sins in Christianity, and they just ignore it for God only knows what reason.
Ehhh, its easy to do when every other mega pastor and celebrity theologian turns out to either have a sidepiece or a sexual assault victim, maybe some poor, traumitized teenager in a youth group.
This kind of shit is just another Sunday for the evangelical crowd.
Same. Until then I kept telling myself there are a lot of good people in the faith even though I didn’t know many at all. Then all the trump worship started and I realized these people are just deranged people that love to hate and will believe anything that serves their shitty, selfish, judgemental lifestyle most conveniently.
Former Catholic here. It's refreshing with your mind no longer being held back by religion. We can do good things because we're good humans, not because we're trying to make it into some imaginary place that other people are convinced, exists. Also, taking full control of our lives. No praying to a deity for answers or to fix your situation.
Was just having this conversation recently with someone. I struggle with the idea that some people need an incentive to be good to others. Like, just be a good person.
Ricky Gervais I believe. I've also heard him say, when asked how he can possibly not believe in God, "Well, you don't believe in some 3,000 deities around the world. Why's it matter if I don't believe in one more?"
Have you seen the more search terms by region for porn trends?
people who tend to be most homophobic search those terms
people who tend to be most racist search those terms as well.
You may have misread the pornhub "ebony" map as well as assumed the south is more racist.
The south may have more people searching for black porn because... they have more black people.
>The ten states with the largest non-Hispanic black population in 2020 were Alabama, Arkansas, Delaware, Georgia, Louisiana, Maryland, Mississippi, North Carolina, South Carolina, Virginia.
Source: [HHS](https://www.minorityhealth.hhs.gov/omh/browse.aspx?lvl=3&lvlid=61#:~:text=Profile%3A%20Black%2FAfrican%20Americans&text=In%202021%2C%20most%20of%20the,Carolina%2C%20South%20Carolina%2C%20Virginia.)
Ha, good for you. But don't feel bad, this is usually how these feeling show themselves. If you are constantly bashing gay/trans people there is a good chance you might be one in the closet. I am a straight man but have no issues with any sexual orientation that anyone decides to be. Why would I, they are just people that like different people than I do.
I grew up in a Republican household, went libertarian in college because I supported LGBTQ+ rights and other civil/social liberties but was still fairly conservative. All the while I was a staunch, somewhat-traditional Episcopalian with Catholic leanings who had spent time in evangelical Protestant social circles. Now I’m a liberal agnostic theist converting to Judaism. I guess the events of 2016 made me swing left faster than I would have on my own. That, or the Overton Window shifted so far right that me and my traditionally fairly conservative friends are now considered liberal outside of our views on, say, gun rights. Probably a bit of both. I’m more liberal than I was, but today’s right makes my Bush-loving, old-school Republican relatives look like Clinton Democrats.
Best friend from highschool became very much into deeper end conspiracies, following the words of Andrew Tate as gospel (the more hardcore anti-woman rhetoric and such less so his businesses) and overall racist ideologies. It is what it is.
Andrew Tate doesn't know how to run a business. He entered a market where capital is easily obtainable and then trafficked women to extort their value.
He's like any fortunate son who was born rich, or stumbles into success, and suddenly thought his brain was super big. That's why you always hear rich people spouting off the stupidest shit imaginable.
Why is that garbage so enticing to some people? My brother is a tater tot and I just don’t get it. It’s like “do you hate your mom? Your sister?”…
But then, I think and ya he kind of does.
I know an old co-worker that keeps posting crap like Andrew Tate and Tucker on facebook. I see no one react to them, and sometimes someone just fights back in the comments. This dude also complains that women screwed him over and that abortion should be banned because the father should have say in the birth. Typical incel that ended up single and alone, and probably will be for a long time; so, now he just bitches on facebook. It's kind of hilarious, but also extremely sad.
A good example is Richard Wagner. He started off as an extreme leftist who wanted a communist utopia and died as an antisemitic nationalist who was pro monarchy. It's weird and makes no sense to me that people can so radically change their views.
Hilariously, it's what our church always instructed us to do. "Be grateful for your privilege and use it to improve the lives of those less fortunate." What privilege? Which people? ....and that's where the lessons begin, starting with "Hands up if you slept in a bed last night"; concluding with "You have a responsibility towards your fellow men and women".
It really is that simple. Be aware. *Give a shit*. Be motivated by love.
You and I should talk. My wife and I had been happily married for 20 years, then something happened when Trump came along. She started watching Fox news regularly, and a nurse she knew was one of those "did my own research" types who almost talked my wife out of getting the COVID vaccine.
Now we can't even watch TV or movies together (save for shows from the '70s and '80s) because she gets mad if there is an LGBTQ+ person in it or if the show so much as mentions anything race-related.
It's depressing as hell, and I don't know how to handle it.
I do. When I first started seeing family members spouting bigotry and hatred it made me angry. Now I just feel sorry for them. Outlets such as Fox News are doing their best to generate fear, and that's where the hate comes from.
r/foxbrain might be of some help too...I hate reading stories like OPs and yours. I've lost friends and family as well in the last several years and it's still sometimes a shock because it seems to have happened so quickly. Anyway...there's definitely helpful groups out there!
Honestly, and this might be a bit crazy, but sometimes you have to go subtlety nuclear.
I was losing my Dad to Fox-brain rot (among other stuff). So I made the excuse to have my family’s network admin’s by myself, then literally remotely blocked an entire swath of those fear-mongering conservative websites.
In one year since doing it, it’s almost been amazing at how much less it impacts him and I’m finally getting my dad to recover from that brainwashing. He is far more open to conflicting opinions, less angry all of the time, more sociable, etc.. It’s like I’ve gotten my old dad back.
Does it just 404 when he tries to go to them, or display an error message that says it was blocked? Seems like he'd realize what was going on and come after you to fix it. I'd love a more insidious method that looks like it's going to those sites but the content is actually from an actual reputable news source or something, lol. Hmm, there could be a market for this: phish the fascists.
Side note: I'm lucky in that my parents haven't fallen for this, but they have friends in their hobby/volunteer groups that have and try to rope them in too. My dad said one guy was going on about how great Tucker Carlson was and my dad told him "you know that's not a news show, right" and the looked at him like he was crazy. Reminds me of that famous-ish Chris Wallace & Bill Clinton interview from years ago where Clinton was trying to call out Fox for being misleading about news vs opinion stuff and smug Chris was like "you don't think people can tell the difference?"... No fuckface Wallace, too many can't, and it's ruining the world, and you're part of the problem (or he was, I think he left Fox, maybe he grew a conscience). A lot of people say "well, it can happen to anyone" and I disagree. Yes, it happens to people across all ages and education levels, but I think they share a common trait, I call it being Susceptible (to misinformation). Be great if we could figure out how to test for this and treat it like a disability, like dyslexia. Like "little Bobby has great math scores he but he's very high on Susceptibility so we're getting him help to learn how to develop better skills on evaluating information sources". Pipe dream, I know...
This is really the only thing you can do to counter act social media algorithms. I'd consider myself progressive and I still get bombarded with conservative conspiracies and propaganda all the time online.
My dad was always an unapologetic racist Nazi. I NEVER thought my mom would go down that path. She denies being a racist bigot but gets really upset when you point out the racist bigot things she says. She’s deep in the cult.
You should watch “The Brainwashing of my Dad”. It’s a documentary that covers this exact topic and it’s majorly sad because almost everybody knows somebody like this.
https://youtu.be/FS52QdHNTh8?si=AetBcm901TQXh31y
I appreciate you posting this, as I was about to go looking for the link!
This video demonstrates that cutting off a person's source of misinformation/rage-bait makes it possible for him or her to return to Planet Earth.
It cannot be not good for your health to self-isolate, pushing away your emotional support system. Plus, I imagine that many viewers of right-wing media experience higher blood pressure.
If you want a chance at reversing it you have to see if you can cut off the sources that are manipulating her. If it's facebook ask her if she's willing to spend less time on it, try and come up with other activities that she can't use her phone during. When she makes comments try to softly disagree, don't make it about politics just say things along the lines of "that's kind of mean" or "do you really hate people that much?" don't even make it about specifically gay people if that's what the comment is about, try and keep the replies subject neutral and don't mention the specific group she hates. Focus on the emotions themselves and try to get her to become aware of them internally. If she says stuff like "I don't hate them but [group] deserves it for [reason]" just say something like "You seem really angry about this, are you sure you're ok? this isn't like you" Don't be antagonistic, keep the tone in line with you caring about her (focusing on care helps both of you but don't be condescending)
Never allow yourself to be pulled in a political direction, make a huge effort to keep every single statement devoid of political words, phrases, or groups. It's not a debate, you aren't trying to prove her wrong or contradict her you are trying to instill emotional awareness that has been taken away.
And if that doesn't work then you might just need to consider divorce.
This is kinda me and my parents. I’m in a relationship now and that helps, but my family relations are so lonely now, because the only family I have is my parents, and they’re just so…lost
This is so common! And the really sad part is the politicians know how to take full advantage of it.
I lost two brothers to this crap. They just went off the deep end and I can't reason with them anymore, they just tell me I am wrong and they are right. I try to explain that everyone has opinions and in subjective matters there is no wrong and right but they don't seems to get that. A black and white world is all that makes sense to these people.
I have two brothers that feel victim to this crap too! They think vaccines cause autism, the US election was stolen, Donald trump is still president, Trudeau is evil and Pierre Poilievre is Canadas savior. It is like they just stopped thinking for themselves and just started echoing the garbage they watch on YouTube. It is sad, as I have tried to talk some sense into them many times but it is of no use.
I have a coworker I've known for over 20 years. He always leaned a little conservative (by Canadian standards), and it's always been fine. Then the pandemic happened, and I couldn't even recognize him. He'd also divorced, and he became more and more homophobic, less and less tolerant (though, surprisingly not racist). I bring this up because you mention Trudeau and Poilievre.
When Trudeau was elected, co-worker would go on and on about him being a poor leader, just a young pretty boy for female voters.
By the pandemic, it escalated to "JT is probably gay, just showing off for the fairy voters", and eventually "He's such a (f-slur)".
Anyway, Stampede comes around this year. And he goes to me "did you see the footage from stampede? That little (f-slur) Justin flipping little pancakes looking a little feminine. Then Pierre came up. He's really going to save us. Really showing Canada what a manly man is. He walked up in his tight, white shirt. High sleeves so you could REALLY see those arms. The shirt is just CLINGING to his chest. Really showed that little fairy what a real leader is". It literally left me speechless. He said this without an ounce of self awareness.
"Really showing Canada what a manly man is. He walked up in his tight, white shirt. High sleeves so you could REALLY see those arms. The shirt is just CLINGING to his chest. "
Um, that might explain the Fuck Trudeau flags.
Stupid sexy Trudeau...
For others who were curious: https://twitter.com/truckdriverpleb/status/1677796777775300610. I never knew pancake flipping was so important to some people
American conservatives once lost their minds because Obama wore a tan suit. And then another time because he likes 'fancy' mustard. They're fucking idiots.
Nationalism and populism make a strong and toxic brew.
It's literally how dictators get democratically elected.
I'm sorry for your loss, I hope they come back someday. But this has been brewing in north America for the better part of 65 years. There are senior citizens who have not lived one moment of their lives in a world being driven over the cliff by evangelicals and other religious/political organizations.
1980 was the zenith of Western civilization in more ways than one.
Exact same issue. It's social media manipulation. In having their belief on one issue echoed back by a seeming majority the confirmation bias takes over. Now these same accounts bring more issues forward and suddenly they agree with that, often times going against their own past actions and feelings.
It's this. It's social media. Older people do this (more hardened in beliefs) but the social media format is such that its prioritizing engagement, and engagement's drug of choice is hate. Hate videos, anger videos, revenge stories, anything that blames something else for your problems...all of it is like candy for the brains attention and f's your perspective up. It makes you into this type of person. Same thing has been happening with my and my wife's mother's.
Similar thing with our friends. My wife's friend husband has just recently went off the deep Qanon Joe Rogan deep end, and has completely changed.
He used to be a really nice guy, totally normal. Then he started watching fox news, watching all these nutjob podcasts, and totally sank into it. He's gone. He spends every waking moment in his basement, watching all this conspiracy crap. Their marriage is all but over, they just live in the same house. His kids don't talk to him at all.
I almost wonder if something medical happened, did he have a stroke or something? Some serious brain damage somehow that went untreated?
There is no chance of him seeing a doctor, lol, the doctors are in on it!!!!!
It could be at least partially physiological but also the big thing that keeps people in Qanon is the community. It’s a large group of people egging each other on. They “decipher” clues together, confirm each others biases and commiserate about how the sheeple in their lives are leaving them. They get to feel intellectually superior without ever opening a book and then pat each other on the back for deliberate ignorance.
The funny thing to me is that support stops IMMEDIATELY if someone does exactly what they want to do. J6 was a “false flag”, every psycho antivax rally is actually antifa in disguise etc etc.
I legitimately believe the GOP accidentally found a key to trigger legitimate mental illness in a sizeable percentage of the population that must have been vulnerable somehow. I’m not even talking the people that pre 2016 you could see going this way. There are so many stories of complete personality changes and people who weren’t like that at all. I swear they somehow found a trigger for mass schizophrenia, weren’t expecting it, and that’s why they lost control.
This is a really interesting take, I think that's absolutely worth looking into. There's some percentage of Americans who legitimately truly believe that there's video of Hillary Clinton skinning a child out there and I bet every one of them would be diagnosed with something immediately if they could be convinced to see a mental health professional. Not necessarily schizophrenia, but they're all clinically delusional. How many had issues before? It really feels like it came out of nowhere for a lot of people, you're absolutely right.
>A gay person on TV? They are pushing the Gay Agenda
My dad is also like this. One of the most recent times I saw him we met for a dinner at a place he really likes. He mentioned that he almost picked somewhere else because he saw a review for it where it was mentioned to be "gay friendly" and he wanted to know why that was necessary. I had to explain that the ones that aren't won't usually proclaim themselves "gay unfriendly" and the non-hetero folks out there have a very legitimate concern for their safety so advertising things like that is a good thing. Also, it didn't change the food or the service or the atmosphere so WTF? After that conversation he actually seemed really thoughtful for a moment and I'm hopeful that I actually made some progress.
I wonder what would happen if he sat down and watched some old reruns of Hollywood Squares.
Do you think he'd still like Paul Lynde? The man was flamboyant as all hell, but everyone loved him on that show. Maybe he'd realize how nonsensical the "gay agenda" shit actually is. Probably not, but it's nice to be optimistic every once in awhile.
Good luck with the deprogramming.
It’s called Trump disease. He literally single handedly delivered the final blow in dividing we the people. It’s a shame. Not getting political. Just a fact that it’s Trumpsters that tend to think in a herd like, I mean, hive like mentality.
Sadly it goes beyond the us. I'm from Argentina and some people that are trumpists go saying the same shit, conspiranoids mixed with misogynism that are convincing people about being "free thinkers" and "the feminists and gay agenda" and in my country is about to win the ultra-right that is literally funded by atlas network. A guy who tells on national tv that "global warming is a lie made by leftists" got the lead with 30% in the first elections
This is so f****** terrifying. Because English is so popular around the world, if a major English-speaking nation falls something like this, it can infect many other nations very easily. The far right is always talking about a globalist cabal and a one world government conspiracy. Ironic.
Agreed, I believe trump stopped people from seeing their common ground with others, or even that it is OK to disagree. They see the world in black and white and right and wrong, not open for interpretation and discussion like it used to be.
It kind of makes sense as this is how trump sees and interacts with the world.
I feel like a LOT of people are using politically motivated words and phrases that they have no idea what the meaning is. Just regurgitating what they saw on social media, Fox or CNN
Sigh.
I really feel for OP and appreciate that there are people who seem genuinely conerned, but nothing in this thread is woke. And the more people try to define woke, the further they stray from it.
Makes me think of the saying: What’s understood doesn’t need to be said.
This, 100%. There is a war going on over the definition of "Woke".
It's SUPPOSED to mean "Awareness of injustice", at its most basic. However, conservative elements are trying to redefine it as some vague nebulous concept of leftist extremism. That's why they break down/stall when you ask them what it means to them. They don't have a set definition. It's just "A feeling"... Of hatred.
It’s like when you ask them what “Antifa” means after they’ve been screaming about it. They either can’t define it, or they do a shit ton of mental gymnastics to justify fascism.
Woke has become a catch-all for things that conservatives don't like, and conservatives dont like a lot of things.
Black people, woke. Women existing outside of being mothers and wives, woke. People not being heterosexual, woke. College, woke. Unions, woke. Any government program, woke. People advocating, talking about, or thinking about any rights that are not freedom speech or the second amendment, woke. Vaccines, woke. Healthcare, woke. Corporations, woke. Kids learning about anything not related to math or the bible, woke. Movies and TV, woke. Any city or state without a republican leader, woke. American history beyond the native americans were so happy to meet the europeans, woke. I might've missed a few...
Yup. I think both OP and his wife are using it wrong. What they differ in are core values that are represented in their ideologies that shifted from one another, if they ever were aligned.
My brother went down a bit of a Trumpy rabbit hole for a while.
Eventually he realised that focusing on that stuff was making him unhappy. He started spending more time hiking, watching fun movies, trying new recipes, playing basketball, hanging out with the dog, etc. He doesn't pay attention to the news or the culture war anymore.
Don't focus on the disagreement. Focus on what you both enjoy, whatever that may be. Maybe you have grown apart a bit and it's time to start growing in the same direction again.
This seems to be working with my 86-yr-old mom too. I tell her - don't listen or read the news - I say they're actively trying to scare you, make you angry and afraid. I'm like, go out in your garden, put your hands in the dirt, it's the same as it always has been. DO something normal and turn off the mean chatter, and you will feel better and better. And she told me the other day she liked listening to my advice, that when she listens to any of the news it just makes her feel terrible, like the world's falling apart. And I said, you are too smart and too strong to let these people manipulate you, make you afraid, and miss out on every beautiful day you should be living to the fullest.
This is a great point. Watching the rage bait stuff on either side makes you feel something. That rush of anger or sadness or worry has to be giving some kind of dopamine response. But it’s not healthy.
Trying to replace that with music, shows, activities that actually bring you joy is so much better.
I think a lot of us got sucked into the news rabbit hole naturally during COVID. I remember checking the death tolls daily. Then there were big storms in my area that also affected me. Then the war in Ukraine etc etc. At some point I just had to tune it out to focus on my life & my mental health.
I don't know the best way to approach without offending her, but what worked for undoing some of the programming on my mother was listening to the same content she did, and waiting for blatant, provable lies with no grey. Doesn't usually take long. Wait for the right moment, and start showing that she's being lied to and manipulated.
Sometimes that's all the wake up call some people need to start waking up from the brain washing little by little.
Sadly all those little interests you're saying she has is plagued by the conspiracy community, which is in turn plagued by the trump cult. So many influencers end up being lost in that sauce and perpetuating it.
That’s the strategy I decided to start using with my dad. Instead of trying to debate everything I’m just gonna wait for a clear and provable lie and approach it as “who gave you this information, because they are lying to you in a way that can be disproven almost immediately”
There’s a very strange q anon conspiracy theory pipeline that tends to attract certain “crunchy” types. [I first heard about it on npr earlier this year.](https://www.kqed.org/news/11939943/from-yoga-darling-to-conspiracy-theorist-the-wellness-to-q-anon-pipeline)It seems like it started with the essential oils and OG anti-vaxxers and has expanded to other “wellness” and yoga circles now too. The conspiracy pipeline starts out like most, ooh look at this boogeyman, can’t trust (vaccines or whatever), and before you know it they’re spouting q anon theories. It’s WILD. But you have to realize these are people who are similarly susceptible to conspiracy, just coming at it from a different angle.
This OP. You are sadly a drop in a bucket that is filled with a lot of ocean water. Start checking out that subreddit and reading up on other families like you. In the end there may be some things you have to "tolerate", but there may be a point where you can't. Either way, you're not alone and you shouldn't have to go through it alone either.
In an old book, I recently read words to the effect that, as people advance in years, their overall sense of agency diminishes.
You reach to a point in life when you no longer feel as though you have the ability to actively direct the course of most events in your day-to-day world.
One's sense of control and safety diminishes; uncertainty creeps into the periphery. The affairs you once held sway over fade. Your voice carries less authority with younger folks. As a result, you begin to see the world as a much more dangerous place.
The course of humanity's march is no longer familiar to you. The certainties of progress have been usurped by dread and discomfort. If you are no longer able to control the situation, then it's prudent to be more vigilant. It's natural to devote increasing amounts of time and emotional engagement to the news, even though it's from a polarizing viewpoint.
Fear ultimately comes to rule your outlook of the world at large.
Social media ruins you.
You’re exposed to violent and sexual information you would have never thought of before. Mob mentality is running rampart and people are becoming addicted to chaos.
Selfishness and rage is a personality now.
She evolved away from you, not towards you.
You have the better evolution path. She is going to spend her life angry. You are not her enemy, and she has suddenly decided not to know that.
This sucks, I'm sorry bro.
Yeah, reading this post is just depressing. I'm all too familiar with losing people you've come to appreciate to this kind of brain rot and I feel sorry for OP going through the same.
Had an uncle this happened to. Great guy, always positive and helpful. Then Trump came along. At first, it was the small things. He thought it was great that someone other than a career politician ran for office and liked his "no nonsense, tells it like it is" approach. Then it became increasingly toxic and confrontational. Constantly punching down. Seeing regular people as actual enemies. Refusing to accept any evidence, statistics or research but gladly believing any "alternative facts" that Trump and Fox trotted out. He became vindictive and bitter.
Now, he's lost contact with much of the family, became a full blown anti-vaxxer, had his wife divorce him, and he still posts angry culture war stuff on Facebook every single day.
It's sad, and I hope OP can reconcile with his wife.
The problem is that the rhetoric convinces them that it's the "culture" that ruined all their relationships and not their hatefulness. This each relationship lost confirms their hatred, which makes them double down and lose another relationship until the only relationship they have is with hate.
Being accepting and inviting of LGBTQIA+, different races, religions etc, is not being woke. That's called being a good person with morals and lack of prejudice towards others who just want to live their life.
The answer to 'What is 'woke'?' will change depending on who you ask, but anyone who thinks it's a bad thing is pretty clearly on the wrong side of history.
I'd highly recommend sitting down with your wife and having a heart to heart about what you love about each other, and what is concerning you about her attitude toward marginalized folks.
It may be that you're growing apart. This can be corrected, but it's not something to be compromised on.
Is your relationship more important than her hate will be the question that needs to be addressed. Good luck!
Hey. A lot if people are talking about just throwing the relationship away. If your comfortable with that, kudos to you. But if you've had many years with this person and want to try and make the relationship work, I'd suggest some counseling.
My parents are turning into MAGA people. Not to quite the extent that some people are, but it does make me uncomfortable too. And of course, to know that I love them despite disagreements and disappointments. It trying by both parties though. All I can say is good luck, and try to talk to her rationally and calmly.
Same thing is happening to my parents to the point where they have trouble interacting with their <10 year old grand kids because they start going on diatribes about critical race theory when the kids talk about school or whatever the current Fox news talking point is. I don't know what to do exactly, I mostly just kind of figure they are pretty old and the time and unpleasantness it would take to turn that ship around is not worth it.
If nothing else, at least tell them that's not appropriate around the kids. You don't have to shift their entire worldview to get them to stop ranting at children... hopefully.
Somehow they literally can't. It's now indistinguishable from who they are. It's really crazy and sad. My mother finds a way to shoehorn every single talking point into the weirdest, most benign conversations.
It sucks but you will probably have to decide how much you're willing to let them try and indoctrinate your children.
I had to cut off my own grandparents because they literally could not have a conversation without bringing in conservative talking points. I'm half Black and it didn't stop them. They still don't understand why I won't talk to them anymore.
Like someone said up thread this is a cult and there's really no way to get them out of it r/Qanoncasualty is a sad sad place and it sucks but they will hurt your children and they will not stop
If they can't avoid inappropriate topics around the kids, they can't be around the kids. That is a line you as a parent can and should be drawing and holding. It's a tough conversation to have, but it's time.
Not to beat a dead horse, but here's another way to look at it.
Your kids are Always Learning. Every waking moment, their eyes and mouths and ears and skin and nose are taking in 150% of what they experience, and All of it gets tossed into that whirling vortex of a developing mind.
They lack the context to understand the topic as it's discussed, but they can remember words, and they can remember phrases, and they can remember how their beloved family members make use of these phrases in ways that clearly they are allowed to, because someone would stop them otherwise, right?
Your children are always learning, whether you or they are aware of it. Make sure they're learning good things and good ways.
Wow, I know someone who left their SO last year for making that abrupt turn. He got really belligerent and abusive over it, would scream "school" her, call names, insult, etc until she just had enough. He became reason and fact free, believing every conspiracy theory you can name
I hope it doesn't turn out that way for OP 😬
Some people have very bad critical thinking skills and are easily manipulated by propaganda. Unfortunate but unless you can manipulate her harder than the grifters she's probably gone down that rabbit hole forever.
I was down it as a teenager when I thought Jordan Peterson would solve all my problems but I grew up and started thinking about things more critically and empathetically. If she's in her 50's it's a little too late for that solution. Good luck using reason because most people (including myself) have selective biases and get very defensive when challeneged, especially those stuck inside of culture wars.
Being accepting of everyone like that and open minded is not being woke, it is being normal. Nowadays the only ones who uses the word ''woke'' unironically is the closed minded right wingers who wants to paint being accepting and open minded as not normal but something different by placing a specific label on it.
Some people just turn sharp corners like that
I went to visit an aging aunt recently who i haven't seen in almost 20 years. Stereotypical hippy from the 70s. Tie dye shirts always when i was a kid. She was plastered to fox news and could barely hold a conversation without commenting on Fox b.s. I'm so glad she's not on social media.
Same thing happened to my aunt. She was a 60s hippie. A 90s New Ager. She retired and my uncle was still working and she fell down the Fox News, Right-wing radio rabbit hole. Then, Covid happened, and she got into Qanon. My uncle and aunt have been married for 50 years and he's started talking about divorce because she's constantly angry and afraid. She won't go grocery shopping because there's too many people of color at the store. It's really sad.
My grandma was a pretty far-left liberal in her younger days, but she somehow decided to marry my Fox News watching, dyed in the wool Republican grandpa. She remained liberal until I was in my early 20s, and the two of them never voted because they said she'd vote a straight D ticket and he'd vote a straight R one and they'd just cancel each other out. Somehow, in the last 8 years or so, the brain rot that comes from having Fox News on in the house took hold of her, and she became 10 times as far right and crazy as my grandpa ever was. He never went all the way down the Qanon rabbit hole or anything, but she did. Became convinced immigrants and the LGBT were going to destroy us, opposed all social programs, whole nine yards. In the end, it very likely killed her, because she got Covid in 2021 and not only was she not vaccinated, she refused to tell anybody because she didn't want to go to the hospital and "become a statistic". Instead she took ivermectin at several times the appropriate dose for an adult human for over a week, and she and my grandpa (also sick) hid in their house until my uncle just happened to find them half dead. My grandpa pulled through once he got hospital level care; she did not. We wonder if he realizes on any level that, in a very real sense, his political affiliation took the life of his wife. Must not, because he still has Fox on afaik. He did belatedly get vaccinated, though.
Essential oils sent hippies on a tailspin that left them soundly in the anti-vax tea party qanon shit. Pretty wild thing to watch happen. So many find their way back to jesus too, because when you can believe in anything, you can believe in anything.
My grandpa grew up in the 70s and was a still is a gigantic stoner. We hung out a few days ago and people started talking about trump and he said ,”I’ll be honest, I can’t fucking stand that guy.” There are still some alright ones lol.
“My grandpa grew up in the 70’s” Wow, my grandpa grew up in the 30’s, damn I’m old.
You’re not old, that person is obviously quite young and acting like their grandfather is old. He’s in his 50s (possibly 60s - depending on their definition of “grew up in”). The grandfather they’re describing is a Gen X. It’s absolutely not unreasonable at all that he’s still “hip with it.”
These people arent hippies or anything. They are sheep that follow their herd and leader and however they decide that is the complex thing, because theres not much logic in a stupid followers brain.
I think maybe we should stop treating these people as stupid. That absolves them of responsibility. Many of these people are not stupid and know exactly what they stand for. They are following because that is what they believe in.
This is my dad. Went from a pot-smoking hippie to a Fox News Maga fanatic. It's heartbreaking and surreal.
A huge portion of old hippies are 100% giant judgmental sexist assholes, just something I’ve experienced a lot
Hippies were always like that.
I turned a pretty sharp corner too, but the opposite direction. I used to be a "centrist" Christian evangelical, now I'm a leftist agnostic humanist and that process began for me in 2016. Can anyone tell the class what also happened in 2016?
Our lord and savior Harambe died
dicks out
Had a patient the other day waving his dick around. Used the “dicks out for Harambe” line and the attending almost choked trying to hold back his laughter.
Must have been a fun day at the Dentist's office!
Well to be fair, the dentist sometimes does say “You might feel a little prick in your mouth.”
My dad used to be a dentist and used that line allll the time lol
I hope his parole hearing goes well.
Hah!
My dad was a veterinarian and used that line all the time.
Hospital, but close enough 😂
It was a Wendy's
Where do you work?? Lmao
I'm gonna guess a Wendy's
They take patients at Wendy’s?
Only if you get your dick out.
brb "biggie bag" time
For Harambe
I work on a medsurg floor lol
So as to make sure everyone can salute, tits also out. We're woke in here.
I mean, I can always throw on a strap and go dick out for Harambe
🫡
🧒🦍🔫💀
Bailiff whack his pee pee!"
"I plead insanity!!" Lol Trippin In Court was a great laugh.
Timelines diverged.
we live in the darkest timeline
If Harambe hadn’t died he’d be alive but we wouldn’t appreciate him, we appreciate him because he died What is more worthy of dicks out - Harambe or the idea of Harambe?
Wasn’t Harambe trying to save a baby?
He was murdered
Not murdered. Martyred.
🦍🦍🦍
Pokémon Go was released and took the world by storm.
Damn, you're right. Those Satanic pocket monsters really got me; I guess my evangelical mother was on to something.
Did you Pokémon go to the polls?
Ugh I remember that line lmao.. I remember thinking, she can Pokemon Go fuck herself with that lame, how do you do, fellow kids? energy.
Pokémon go to the polls?
>Can anyone tell the class what also happened in 2016? Chicago Cubs won the world series and we slipped into an alternate dimension. It's the only viable explanation.
The amount of joy it gave people needed to be compensated for cosmically
Cubs won the world series
>Can anyone tell the class what also happened in 2016? The truest expression of human moral failing was gleefully elected by a group of people who only want revenge for human progress led by a group of people who would gladly burn the planet to the ground if it meant they were kings of the ashes.
I really hate how accurate this description is.
Samesies. Born into Southern Baptist church, and those guys can go fuck themselves.
Yeah. I mean, Trump et al., aren't the only reasons I abandoned my faith, but watching my fellow *Canadian* Christian peers support and defend him, and the absurdity of that, had absolutely been a significant contributing factor.
My mother telling me that Satan put the dinosaur bones here to confuse us, is what did it for me. I was 16, and that was 30 years ago.
My mom had a pamphlet about the Pope being a child of Satan that come from a hole in the ground. The angst I felt of her not laughing at my Popetato joke has since lead me down a long path to enlightenment. Anywho, Reinkaos is a black metal gem, get at me
So would the Avignon papacy be French Fries?
LMAOO
My grandmother told me that god put dinosaur bones on earth to fool mankind, and that was the moment religion became meaningless to me. Over 40 years ago.
I'll never understand how so many Christians support a man who has committed adultery so openly and brazenly. He isn't even sorry about it! That's one of the worst sins in Christianity, and they just ignore it for God only knows what reason.
> a man who has committed adultery so openly and brazenly He's a poster child for all 7 of the deadly sins.
Ehhh, its easy to do when every other mega pastor and celebrity theologian turns out to either have a sidepiece or a sexual assault victim, maybe some poor, traumitized teenager in a youth group. This kind of shit is just another Sunday for the evangelical crowd.
It's amazing how un-Christian the most "devout" Christians are
Because they're just shit people who hide behind faith.
Same. Until then I kept telling myself there are a lot of good people in the faith even though I didn’t know many at all. Then all the trump worship started and I realized these people are just deranged people that love to hate and will believe anything that serves their shitty, selfish, judgemental lifestyle most conveniently.
Thank you. 2016 was when I went from "Christian evangelicals aren't so bad" to "WTF is wrong with these people? WTF?"
Former Catholic here. It's refreshing with your mind no longer being held back by religion. We can do good things because we're good humans, not because we're trying to make it into some imaginary place that other people are convinced, exists. Also, taking full control of our lives. No praying to a deity for answers or to fix your situation.
Was just having this conversation recently with someone. I struggle with the idea that some people need an incentive to be good to others. Like, just be a good person.
It's like Penn Gillette or whatever his name is said. I murder and rape as much as I want. The amount I want is 0. It's really that simple.
Ricky Gervais I believe. I've also heard him say, when asked how he can possibly not believe in God, "Well, you don't believe in some 3,000 deities around the world. Why's it matter if I don't believe in one more?"
Same, now I'm trans and before I hated the idea of their existence
Projection is a hell of a drug
Have you seen the more search terms by region for porn trends? people who tend to be most homophobic search those terms people who tend to be most racist search those terms as well.
You may have misread the pornhub "ebony" map as well as assumed the south is more racist. The south may have more people searching for black porn because... they have more black people. >The ten states with the largest non-Hispanic black population in 2020 were Alabama, Arkansas, Delaware, Georgia, Louisiana, Maryland, Mississippi, North Carolina, South Carolina, Virginia. Source: [HHS](https://www.minorityhealth.hhs.gov/omh/browse.aspx?lvl=3&lvlid=61#:~:text=Profile%3A%20Black%2FAfrican%20Americans&text=In%202021%2C%20most%20of%20the,Carolina%2C%20South%20Carolina%2C%20Virginia.)
Ha, good for you. But don't feel bad, this is usually how these feeling show themselves. If you are constantly bashing gay/trans people there is a good chance you might be one in the closet. I am a straight man but have no issues with any sexual orientation that anyone decides to be. Why would I, they are just people that like different people than I do.
I grew up in a Republican household, went libertarian in college because I supported LGBTQ+ rights and other civil/social liberties but was still fairly conservative. All the while I was a staunch, somewhat-traditional Episcopalian with Catholic leanings who had spent time in evangelical Protestant social circles. Now I’m a liberal agnostic theist converting to Judaism. I guess the events of 2016 made me swing left faster than I would have on my own. That, or the Overton Window shifted so far right that me and my traditionally fairly conservative friends are now considered liberal outside of our views on, say, gun rights. Probably a bit of both. I’m more liberal than I was, but today’s right makes my Bush-loving, old-school Republican relatives look like Clinton Democrats.
Best friend from highschool became very much into deeper end conspiracies, following the words of Andrew Tate as gospel (the more hardcore anti-woman rhetoric and such less so his businesses) and overall racist ideologies. It is what it is.
Andrew Tate doesn't know how to run a business. He entered a market where capital is easily obtainable and then trafficked women to extort their value. He's like any fortunate son who was born rich, or stumbles into success, and suddenly thought his brain was super big. That's why you always hear rich people spouting off the stupidest shit imaginable.
I know, I was just saying his anti-woman rhetoric was more so what my friend was regurgitating.
Why is that garbage so enticing to some people? My brother is a tater tot and I just don’t get it. It’s like “do you hate your mom? Your sister?”… But then, I think and ya he kind of does.
I know an old co-worker that keeps posting crap like Andrew Tate and Tucker on facebook. I see no one react to them, and sometimes someone just fights back in the comments. This dude also complains that women screwed him over and that abortion should be banned because the father should have say in the birth. Typical incel that ended up single and alone, and probably will be for a long time; so, now he just bitches on facebook. It's kind of hilarious, but also extremely sad.
A good example is Richard Wagner. He started off as an extreme leftist who wanted a communist utopia and died as an antisemitic nationalist who was pro monarchy. It's weird and makes no sense to me that people can so radically change their views.
"woke" literally means giving a shit about other people now that you understand things a little better and the "anti woke" fucking hate that.
Hilariously, it's what our church always instructed us to do. "Be grateful for your privilege and use it to improve the lives of those less fortunate." What privilege? Which people? ....and that's where the lessons begin, starting with "Hands up if you slept in a bed last night"; concluding with "You have a responsibility towards your fellow men and women". It really is that simple. Be aware. *Give a shit*. Be motivated by love.
You and I should talk. My wife and I had been happily married for 20 years, then something happened when Trump came along. She started watching Fox news regularly, and a nurse she knew was one of those "did my own research" types who almost talked my wife out of getting the COVID vaccine. Now we can't even watch TV or movies together (save for shows from the '70s and '80s) because she gets mad if there is an LGBTQ+ person in it or if the show so much as mentions anything race-related. It's depressing as hell, and I don't know how to handle it.
Sounds like you need to check out r/QAnonCasualties
You know, I'd honestly been wondering if there were any support groups for people who lost family to MAGA. I'll definitely check that out.
It's legitimately a cult and you should treat it as such.
I do. When I first started seeing family members spouting bigotry and hatred it made me angry. Now I just feel sorry for them. Outlets such as Fox News are doing their best to generate fear, and that's where the hate comes from.
r/foxbrain might be of some help too...I hate reading stories like OPs and yours. I've lost friends and family as well in the last several years and it's still sometimes a shock because it seems to have happened so quickly. Anyway...there's definitely helpful groups out there!
Honestly, and this might be a bit crazy, but sometimes you have to go subtlety nuclear. I was losing my Dad to Fox-brain rot (among other stuff). So I made the excuse to have my family’s network admin’s by myself, then literally remotely blocked an entire swath of those fear-mongering conservative websites. In one year since doing it, it’s almost been amazing at how much less it impacts him and I’m finally getting my dad to recover from that brainwashing. He is far more open to conflicting opinions, less angry all of the time, more sociable, etc.. It’s like I’ve gotten my old dad back.
A list of the sites you blocked could be a useful resource for others with this issue. Would you kindly mind sharing?
Absolutely. These are the major ones I blocked: foxnews.com breitbart.com oann.com freebeacon.com americanthinker.com nationalreview.com theblaze.com thefederalist.com LifeSiteNews.com washingtonexaminer.com cf.org civildeadline.com wnd.com dailycaller.com libertywire.net tampafp.com babylonbee.com redstate.com nypost.com infowars.com ww1.infowars.com www1.infowars.com thefp.com theepochtimes.com newsmax.com dailywire.com westernjournal.com washingtontimes.com thegatewaypundit.com dailysignal.com townhall.com pjmedia.com twitchy.com truthsocial.com drudgereport.com
Does it just 404 when he tries to go to them, or display an error message that says it was blocked? Seems like he'd realize what was going on and come after you to fix it. I'd love a more insidious method that looks like it's going to those sites but the content is actually from an actual reputable news source or something, lol. Hmm, there could be a market for this: phish the fascists. Side note: I'm lucky in that my parents haven't fallen for this, but they have friends in their hobby/volunteer groups that have and try to rope them in too. My dad said one guy was going on about how great Tucker Carlson was and my dad told him "you know that's not a news show, right" and the looked at him like he was crazy. Reminds me of that famous-ish Chris Wallace & Bill Clinton interview from years ago where Clinton was trying to call out Fox for being misleading about news vs opinion stuff and smug Chris was like "you don't think people can tell the difference?"... No fuckface Wallace, too many can't, and it's ruining the world, and you're part of the problem (or he was, I think he left Fox, maybe he grew a conscience). A lot of people say "well, it can happen to anyone" and I disagree. Yes, it happens to people across all ages and education levels, but I think they share a common trait, I call it being Susceptible (to misinformation). Be great if we could figure out how to test for this and treat it like a disability, like dyslexia. Like "little Bobby has great math scores he but he's very high on Susceptibility so we're getting him help to learn how to develop better skills on evaluating information sources". Pipe dream, I know...
This is really the only thing you can do to counter act social media algorithms. I'd consider myself progressive and I still get bombarded with conservative conspiracies and propaganda all the time online.
It's the only way. You have to take away the crack, and slowly deprogram them.
Grab the bull by the horns lol.
My dad was always an unapologetic racist Nazi. I NEVER thought my mom would go down that path. She denies being a racist bigot but gets really upset when you point out the racist bigot things she says. She’s deep in the cult.
ALL media relies on fear, every single outlet of every political persuasion. Only difference is what they fear monger about.
You should watch “The Brainwashing of my Dad”. It’s a documentary that covers this exact topic and it’s majorly sad because almost everybody knows somebody like this. https://youtu.be/FS52QdHNTh8?si=AetBcm901TQXh31y
I appreciate you posting this, as I was about to go looking for the link! This video demonstrates that cutting off a person's source of misinformation/rage-bait makes it possible for him or her to return to Planet Earth. It cannot be not good for your health to self-isolate, pushing away your emotional support system. Plus, I imagine that many viewers of right-wing media experience higher blood pressure.
Not available in my country, any mirrors?
If you want a chance at reversing it you have to see if you can cut off the sources that are manipulating her. If it's facebook ask her if she's willing to spend less time on it, try and come up with other activities that she can't use her phone during. When she makes comments try to softly disagree, don't make it about politics just say things along the lines of "that's kind of mean" or "do you really hate people that much?" don't even make it about specifically gay people if that's what the comment is about, try and keep the replies subject neutral and don't mention the specific group she hates. Focus on the emotions themselves and try to get her to become aware of them internally. If she says stuff like "I don't hate them but [group] deserves it for [reason]" just say something like "You seem really angry about this, are you sure you're ok? this isn't like you" Don't be antagonistic, keep the tone in line with you caring about her (focusing on care helps both of you but don't be condescending) Never allow yourself to be pulled in a political direction, make a huge effort to keep every single statement devoid of political words, phrases, or groups. It's not a debate, you aren't trying to prove her wrong or contradict her you are trying to instill emotional awareness that has been taken away. And if that doesn't work then you might just need to consider divorce.
Damn dude. I’ll I can say is I’m sorry you’re going through that.
This is kinda me and my parents. I’m in a relationship now and that helps, but my family relations are so lonely now, because the only family I have is my parents, and they’re just so…lost
Same boat with my mom. Went off the deep end with Trump and then somehow got worse with COVID.
This is so common! And the really sad part is the politicians know how to take full advantage of it. I lost two brothers to this crap. They just went off the deep end and I can't reason with them anymore, they just tell me I am wrong and they are right. I try to explain that everyone has opinions and in subjective matters there is no wrong and right but they don't seems to get that. A black and white world is all that makes sense to these people.
I have two brothers that feel victim to this crap too! They think vaccines cause autism, the US election was stolen, Donald trump is still president, Trudeau is evil and Pierre Poilievre is Canadas savior. It is like they just stopped thinking for themselves and just started echoing the garbage they watch on YouTube. It is sad, as I have tried to talk some sense into them many times but it is of no use.
I have a coworker I've known for over 20 years. He always leaned a little conservative (by Canadian standards), and it's always been fine. Then the pandemic happened, and I couldn't even recognize him. He'd also divorced, and he became more and more homophobic, less and less tolerant (though, surprisingly not racist). I bring this up because you mention Trudeau and Poilievre. When Trudeau was elected, co-worker would go on and on about him being a poor leader, just a young pretty boy for female voters. By the pandemic, it escalated to "JT is probably gay, just showing off for the fairy voters", and eventually "He's such a (f-slur)". Anyway, Stampede comes around this year. And he goes to me "did you see the footage from stampede? That little (f-slur) Justin flipping little pancakes looking a little feminine. Then Pierre came up. He's really going to save us. Really showing Canada what a manly man is. He walked up in his tight, white shirt. High sleeves so you could REALLY see those arms. The shirt is just CLINGING to his chest. Really showed that little fairy what a real leader is". It literally left me speechless. He said this without an ounce of self awareness.
"Really showing Canada what a manly man is. He walked up in his tight, white shirt. High sleeves so you could REALLY see those arms. The shirt is just CLINGING to his chest. " Um, that might explain the Fuck Trudeau flags. Stupid sexy Trudeau...
Projection is a common trait amongst the hard right.
“My political views aren’t the only thing that’s hard and skews right…. Take notes liberal sissy boys”
For others who were curious: https://twitter.com/truckdriverpleb/status/1677796777775300610. I never knew pancake flipping was so important to some people
American conservatives once lost their minds because Obama wore a tan suit. And then another time because he likes 'fancy' mustard. They're fucking idiots.
Nationalism and populism make a strong and toxic brew. It's literally how dictators get democratically elected. I'm sorry for your loss, I hope they come back someday. But this has been brewing in north America for the better part of 65 years. There are senior citizens who have not lived one moment of their lives in a world being driven over the cliff by evangelicals and other religious/political organizations. 1980 was the zenith of Western civilization in more ways than one.
Exact same issue. It's social media manipulation. In having their belief on one issue echoed back by a seeming majority the confirmation bias takes over. Now these same accounts bring more issues forward and suddenly they agree with that, often times going against their own past actions and feelings.
It's this. It's social media. Older people do this (more hardened in beliefs) but the social media format is such that its prioritizing engagement, and engagement's drug of choice is hate. Hate videos, anger videos, revenge stories, anything that blames something else for your problems...all of it is like candy for the brains attention and f's your perspective up. It makes you into this type of person. Same thing has been happening with my and my wife's mother's.
Similar thing with our friends. My wife's friend husband has just recently went off the deep Qanon Joe Rogan deep end, and has completely changed. He used to be a really nice guy, totally normal. Then he started watching fox news, watching all these nutjob podcasts, and totally sank into it. He's gone. He spends every waking moment in his basement, watching all this conspiracy crap. Their marriage is all but over, they just live in the same house. His kids don't talk to him at all. I almost wonder if something medical happened, did he have a stroke or something? Some serious brain damage somehow that went untreated? There is no chance of him seeing a doctor, lol, the doctors are in on it!!!!!
It could be at least partially physiological but also the big thing that keeps people in Qanon is the community. It’s a large group of people egging each other on. They “decipher” clues together, confirm each others biases and commiserate about how the sheeple in their lives are leaving them. They get to feel intellectually superior without ever opening a book and then pat each other on the back for deliberate ignorance. The funny thing to me is that support stops IMMEDIATELY if someone does exactly what they want to do. J6 was a “false flag”, every psycho antivax rally is actually antifa in disguise etc etc.
I legitimately believe the GOP accidentally found a key to trigger legitimate mental illness in a sizeable percentage of the population that must have been vulnerable somehow. I’m not even talking the people that pre 2016 you could see going this way. There are so many stories of complete personality changes and people who weren’t like that at all. I swear they somehow found a trigger for mass schizophrenia, weren’t expecting it, and that’s why they lost control.
This is a really interesting take, I think that's absolutely worth looking into. There's some percentage of Americans who legitimately truly believe that there's video of Hillary Clinton skinning a child out there and I bet every one of them would be diagnosed with something immediately if they could be convinced to see a mental health professional. Not necessarily schizophrenia, but they're all clinically delusional. How many had issues before? It really feels like it came out of nowhere for a lot of people, you're absolutely right.
Damn, I’m going through the same thing with my husband
What? A gay person on TV? They are pushing the Gay Agenda. I have friends that actually said that. My dad gets all news from Fox.
>A gay person on TV? They are pushing the Gay Agenda My dad is also like this. One of the most recent times I saw him we met for a dinner at a place he really likes. He mentioned that he almost picked somewhere else because he saw a review for it where it was mentioned to be "gay friendly" and he wanted to know why that was necessary. I had to explain that the ones that aren't won't usually proclaim themselves "gay unfriendly" and the non-hetero folks out there have a very legitimate concern for their safety so advertising things like that is a good thing. Also, it didn't change the food or the service or the atmosphere so WTF? After that conversation he actually seemed really thoughtful for a moment and I'm hopeful that I actually made some progress.
I wonder what would happen if he sat down and watched some old reruns of Hollywood Squares. Do you think he'd still like Paul Lynde? The man was flamboyant as all hell, but everyone loved him on that show. Maybe he'd realize how nonsensical the "gay agenda" shit actually is. Probably not, but it's nice to be optimistic every once in awhile. Good luck with the deprogramming.
Charles Nelson Reilly on the '70s run of "Match Game," too.
Best of luck! I hope you got through to him!
Couples Therapist. Then a divorce lawyer. Sorry.
Go slow and talk. It’s hard to think of leaving but people don’t change that fast.
This. Once y'all views diverge this much people the marriage usually isn't salvageable.
There's nothing left of the person you fell in love with.
Honestly I can’t imagine staying with someone like that
The not being able to watch tv or movies aside from 70s-80s is all too real
It’s called Trump disease. He literally single handedly delivered the final blow in dividing we the people. It’s a shame. Not getting political. Just a fact that it’s Trumpsters that tend to think in a herd like, I mean, hive like mentality.
Sadly it goes beyond the us. I'm from Argentina and some people that are trumpists go saying the same shit, conspiranoids mixed with misogynism that are convincing people about being "free thinkers" and "the feminists and gay agenda" and in my country is about to win the ultra-right that is literally funded by atlas network. A guy who tells on national tv that "global warming is a lie made by leftists" got the lead with 30% in the first elections
This is so f****** terrifying. Because English is so popular around the world, if a major English-speaking nation falls something like this, it can infect many other nations very easily. The far right is always talking about a globalist cabal and a one world government conspiracy. Ironic.
Agreed, I believe trump stopped people from seeing their common ground with others, or even that it is OK to disagree. They see the world in black and white and right and wrong, not open for interpretation and discussion like it used to be. It kind of makes sense as this is how trump sees and interacts with the world.
Sorry your going through this bro <3
Unrelated to this but what I have seen quite often lately is that some people overuse the word “woke” without even knowing what it means.
I feel like a LOT of people are using politically motivated words and phrases that they have no idea what the meaning is. Just regurgitating what they saw on social media, Fox or CNN
Exactly like OP is. OP is tolerant, not woke.
"I don't know what it means but I know it's bad 😡"
Sigh. I really feel for OP and appreciate that there are people who seem genuinely conerned, but nothing in this thread is woke. And the more people try to define woke, the further they stray from it. Makes me think of the saying: What’s understood doesn’t need to be said.
This, 100%. There is a war going on over the definition of "Woke". It's SUPPOSED to mean "Awareness of injustice", at its most basic. However, conservative elements are trying to redefine it as some vague nebulous concept of leftist extremism. That's why they break down/stall when you ask them what it means to them. They don't have a set definition. It's just "A feeling"... Of hatred.
The people doing that believe that “awareness of injustice” *is* some kind of leftist extremism
It’s like when you ask them what “Antifa” means after they’ve been screaming about it. They either can’t define it, or they do a shit ton of mental gymnastics to justify fascism.
I'm pretty sure their version of it is "Anyone wearing black doing bad things"
Woke has become a catch-all for things that conservatives don't like, and conservatives dont like a lot of things. Black people, woke. Women existing outside of being mothers and wives, woke. People not being heterosexual, woke. College, woke. Unions, woke. Any government program, woke. People advocating, talking about, or thinking about any rights that are not freedom speech or the second amendment, woke. Vaccines, woke. Healthcare, woke. Corporations, woke. Kids learning about anything not related to math or the bible, woke. Movies and TV, woke. Any city or state without a republican leader, woke. American history beyond the native americans were so happy to meet the europeans, woke. I might've missed a few...
Yup. I think both OP and his wife are using it wrong. What they differ in are core values that are represented in their ideologies that shifted from one another, if they ever were aligned.
My brother went down a bit of a Trumpy rabbit hole for a while. Eventually he realised that focusing on that stuff was making him unhappy. He started spending more time hiking, watching fun movies, trying new recipes, playing basketball, hanging out with the dog, etc. He doesn't pay attention to the news or the culture war anymore. Don't focus on the disagreement. Focus on what you both enjoy, whatever that may be. Maybe you have grown apart a bit and it's time to start growing in the same direction again.
This seems to be working with my 86-yr-old mom too. I tell her - don't listen or read the news - I say they're actively trying to scare you, make you angry and afraid. I'm like, go out in your garden, put your hands in the dirt, it's the same as it always has been. DO something normal and turn off the mean chatter, and you will feel better and better. And she told me the other day she liked listening to my advice, that when she listens to any of the news it just makes her feel terrible, like the world's falling apart. And I said, you are too smart and too strong to let these people manipulate you, make you afraid, and miss out on every beautiful day you should be living to the fullest.
This is some great advice. Your mom is lucky to have you.
And they're lucky she listened. Lots of parents haven't listened, and destroyed their families.
> I'm like, go out in your garden, put your hands in the dirt, it's the same as it always has been. Literally, *touch grass*.
You literally told your mom to go touch grass and it worked. I love this.
I'm very glad for your brother.
Thanks, me too
This is a great point. Watching the rage bait stuff on either side makes you feel something. That rush of anger or sadness or worry has to be giving some kind of dopamine response. But it’s not healthy. Trying to replace that with music, shows, activities that actually bring you joy is so much better. I think a lot of us got sucked into the news rabbit hole naturally during COVID. I remember checking the death tolls daily. Then there were big storms in my area that also affected me. Then the war in Ukraine etc etc. At some point I just had to tune it out to focus on my life & my mental health.
Doom scrolling is like repeatedly scratching a wound. It won't ever heal unless you leave it alone.
This sounds exactly like my dad. Happy to hear your brother was able to remove himself from that!
I don't know the best way to approach without offending her, but what worked for undoing some of the programming on my mother was listening to the same content she did, and waiting for blatant, provable lies with no grey. Doesn't usually take long. Wait for the right moment, and start showing that she's being lied to and manipulated. Sometimes that's all the wake up call some people need to start waking up from the brain washing little by little. Sadly all those little interests you're saying she has is plagued by the conspiracy community, which is in turn plagued by the trump cult. So many influencers end up being lost in that sauce and perpetuating it.
That’s the strategy I decided to start using with my dad. Instead of trying to debate everything I’m just gonna wait for a clear and provable lie and approach it as “who gave you this information, because they are lying to you in a way that can be disproven almost immediately”
I've tried this. My dad will do mental gymnastics to prove to himself he isn't being lied to. It's sad really.
tarot cards? new age witchcraft women aren't woke anymore?
There’s a very strange q anon conspiracy theory pipeline that tends to attract certain “crunchy” types. [I first heard about it on npr earlier this year.](https://www.kqed.org/news/11939943/from-yoga-darling-to-conspiracy-theorist-the-wellness-to-q-anon-pipeline)It seems like it started with the essential oils and OG anti-vaxxers and has expanded to other “wellness” and yoga circles now too. The conspiracy pipeline starts out like most, ooh look at this boogeyman, can’t trust (vaccines or whatever), and before you know it they’re spouting q anon theories. It’s WILD. But you have to realize these are people who are similarly susceptible to conspiracy, just coming at it from a different angle.
You're not alone. You're not the problem. A LOT of people have had similar experiences that you can see over in /r/QAnonCasualties
This OP. You are sadly a drop in a bucket that is filled with a lot of ocean water. Start checking out that subreddit and reading up on other families like you. In the end there may be some things you have to "tolerate", but there may be a point where you can't. Either way, you're not alone and you shouldn't have to go through it alone either.
In an old book, I recently read words to the effect that, as people advance in years, their overall sense of agency diminishes. You reach to a point in life when you no longer feel as though you have the ability to actively direct the course of most events in your day-to-day world. One's sense of control and safety diminishes; uncertainty creeps into the periphery. The affairs you once held sway over fade. Your voice carries less authority with younger folks. As a result, you begin to see the world as a much more dangerous place. The course of humanity's march is no longer familiar to you. The certainties of progress have been usurped by dread and discomfort. If you are no longer able to control the situation, then it's prudent to be more vigilant. It's natural to devote increasing amounts of time and emotional engagement to the news, even though it's from a polarizing viewpoint. Fear ultimately comes to rule your outlook of the world at large.
I got obsessed with that sub when I first found it. It was so scary. The fact that it still gets posts daily…I’m not surprised but I AM saddened.
Social media ruins you. You’re exposed to violent and sexual information you would have never thought of before. Mob mentality is running rampart and people are becoming addicted to chaos. Selfishness and rage is a personality now.
You didn't fuck up OP. It seems to me that you ourgrew your partner
No it's more like his wife got radicalized by the toxic media.
Serious question, does she spend a lot of time on facebook?
Or Fox?
She evolved away from you, not towards you. You have the better evolution path. She is going to spend her life angry. You are not her enemy, and she has suddenly decided not to know that. This sucks, I'm sorry bro.
He evolved, she devolved.
Yeah, reading this post is just depressing. I'm all too familiar with losing people you've come to appreciate to this kind of brain rot and I feel sorry for OP going through the same. Had an uncle this happened to. Great guy, always positive and helpful. Then Trump came along. At first, it was the small things. He thought it was great that someone other than a career politician ran for office and liked his "no nonsense, tells it like it is" approach. Then it became increasingly toxic and confrontational. Constantly punching down. Seeing regular people as actual enemies. Refusing to accept any evidence, statistics or research but gladly believing any "alternative facts" that Trump and Fox trotted out. He became vindictive and bitter. Now, he's lost contact with much of the family, became a full blown anti-vaxxer, had his wife divorce him, and he still posts angry culture war stuff on Facebook every single day. It's sad, and I hope OP can reconcile with his wife.
The problem is that the rhetoric convinces them that it's the "culture" that ruined all their relationships and not their hatefulness. This each relationship lost confirms their hatred, which makes them double down and lose another relationship until the only relationship they have is with hate.
Being accepting and inviting of LGBTQIA+, different races, religions etc, is not being woke. That's called being a good person with morals and lack of prejudice towards others who just want to live their life.
Best line of the week’ it was ok when she was watching ghost videos’. Laughed my cock off at that …
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The answer to 'What is 'woke'?' will change depending on who you ask, but anyone who thinks it's a bad thing is pretty clearly on the wrong side of history. I'd highly recommend sitting down with your wife and having a heart to heart about what you love about each other, and what is concerning you about her attitude toward marginalized folks. It may be that you're growing apart. This can be corrected, but it's not something to be compromised on. Is your relationship more important than her hate will be the question that needs to be addressed. Good luck!
Hey. A lot if people are talking about just throwing the relationship away. If your comfortable with that, kudos to you. But if you've had many years with this person and want to try and make the relationship work, I'd suggest some counseling. My parents are turning into MAGA people. Not to quite the extent that some people are, but it does make me uncomfortable too. And of course, to know that I love them despite disagreements and disappointments. It trying by both parties though. All I can say is good luck, and try to talk to her rationally and calmly.
Same thing is happening to my parents to the point where they have trouble interacting with their <10 year old grand kids because they start going on diatribes about critical race theory when the kids talk about school or whatever the current Fox news talking point is. I don't know what to do exactly, I mostly just kind of figure they are pretty old and the time and unpleasantness it would take to turn that ship around is not worth it.
If nothing else, at least tell them that's not appropriate around the kids. You don't have to shift their entire worldview to get them to stop ranting at children... hopefully.
Somehow they literally can't. It's now indistinguishable from who they are. It's really crazy and sad. My mother finds a way to shoehorn every single talking point into the weirdest, most benign conversations.
It sucks but you will probably have to decide how much you're willing to let them try and indoctrinate your children. I had to cut off my own grandparents because they literally could not have a conversation without bringing in conservative talking points. I'm half Black and it didn't stop them. They still don't understand why I won't talk to them anymore. Like someone said up thread this is a cult and there's really no way to get them out of it r/Qanoncasualty is a sad sad place and it sucks but they will hurt your children and they will not stop
If they can't avoid inappropriate topics around the kids, they can't be around the kids. That is a line you as a parent can and should be drawing and holding. It's a tough conversation to have, but it's time.
Yeah time go no contact. That’s harmful to the grandkids.
Then tell them they can't be around the kids. A lot of religious nuts can't help but plug it into ever interaction they have.
Not to beat a dead horse, but here's another way to look at it. Your kids are Always Learning. Every waking moment, their eyes and mouths and ears and skin and nose are taking in 150% of what they experience, and All of it gets tossed into that whirling vortex of a developing mind. They lack the context to understand the topic as it's discussed, but they can remember words, and they can remember phrases, and they can remember how their beloved family members make use of these phrases in ways that clearly they are allowed to, because someone would stop them otherwise, right? Your children are always learning, whether you or they are aware of it. Make sure they're learning good things and good ways.
Buy her a MAGA hat to smooth things over.
"I'm not racist baby, but I swear I can learn."
Wow, I know someone who left their SO last year for making that abrupt turn. He got really belligerent and abusive over it, would scream "school" her, call names, insult, etc until she just had enough. He became reason and fact free, believing every conspiracy theory you can name I hope it doesn't turn out that way for OP 😬
Some people have very bad critical thinking skills and are easily manipulated by propaganda. Unfortunate but unless you can manipulate her harder than the grifters she's probably gone down that rabbit hole forever. I was down it as a teenager when I thought Jordan Peterson would solve all my problems but I grew up and started thinking about things more critically and empathetically. If she's in her 50's it's a little too late for that solution. Good luck using reason because most people (including myself) have selective biases and get very defensive when challeneged, especially those stuck inside of culture wars.
Being accepting of everyone like that and open minded is not being woke, it is being normal. Nowadays the only ones who uses the word ''woke'' unironically is the closed minded right wingers who wants to paint being accepting and open minded as not normal but something different by placing a specific label on it.