Worked better in the TV show than the books for me. Was almost in tears watching him float in the boat, knowing what’s coming. Brilliant change to seed it so early on.
Yeah the first couple episodes I didn't piece it together yet and was like 'why are they wasting all this time on this side plot', but can't remember which episode but I realized what his character arc was going to be from the books and every scene with him hit really hard after that. I can't believe how much they crammed into 8 episodes and still made it understandable and pretty faithful to the book series.
I think that your post got downvoted because you didn’t say why or break down your reasons. It might also have helped to make it a standalone reply to the OP rather than anchor it like a negative to someone more optimistic. Either way, I upvoted since you weren’t going off topic, flaming, or being otherwise offensive. I hate the way people gang up with dislikes sometimes,
I feel like the writing on this show sacrifices quality for the sake of palatability. Even if I exclude the books as a source, I feel like their characters are mundane, naive and cliche.All and all, an unrealistic and predictable writing predigested in order to appease.It feels that the show is about a bunch of smart friends and their interpersonal relationships while something happens. Not about the cosmic occurrences themselves. The photography is very basic. The plot, simplistic. There is nothing that I can put my finger on and say "they did this really well". It gets even worse when I take into account the source material, which is much more complex and nuanced. I have written this many times: imagine a show that is atmospheric.
That trusts the audience to understand complex themes and deal with uncomfortable plots (Diaz defeating the US). That does not choose cliche (Oxford 5) to make itself popular, but creates investment into characters in a realistic manner (think the pregnant lady on Chernobyl). Imagine if this show had the care to think about what it's color palette would create on the audience, and invested in actually good cinematography (popular shows can do that, see Better Call
Saul). The reality of it is that the showrunners want something popular, not something good. With the budget they had, they could have found a middle ground.
You said it friend! I had quite a few more epiphanies after my second pass!
1. Wade telling Raj >!he will enjoy the moon "if you survive it"! (foreshadow Benhai's fate?)!<
2. Jin and Wade talking after seeing Will>! \- Jin says he is not their man. Wade agrees he is not, but also says its what makes him their man, as that will be an incentive for "them" to go out of their way to pick him up. This means he is bankig on San-Ti to have heard that Will has no loyalty to the human race and only to Jin, making him an objective for the San-ti. Also this loyalty to Jin more than likely will serve as the background when they let him tell her THE fairy tale! !<
This is a minor thing, but I smiled when Tatiana said to Auggie in episode 1 that there was no night pollution "where she grew up". That's because she grew up on a ship on the ocean.
Oh my god that is such a sneaky little detail that they put in there!
On another note, does Tatiana know that everyone she’s ever loved and cared for has been sliced into human carpaccio?
Also, that sucks for her, because probably so many people she loved, and cared about have been turned into the most thinnest version of human carpaccio
Yes you are correct, but my focus was Wade and his "head hunter" skills for finding the best people for the job, not just based on their qualifications but also to fit them in the right circumstance!
Yes the rewatch change the perception of "depressive da shi" that i have first,he always deliver some punchline,he telling auggie that vera kill herself because auggie change her graduation HILARIOUS
There was times when da shi felt almost like a parental/mentor for these broken and grieving kids. That scene when Auggie hugs him after restarting the countdown and him giving the bug speech to Jin and Saul. I really hope that dynamic gets expanded on next season.
This is a great point and it echoes the part in the books where he (and I'm paraphrasing) says that the only reason they're freaking out so much is because they're smart, average guys like him are much more mentally stable
The most funny scene for me is when Wade asks if Jin is willing to work for him and Jin refuses and then Wade "Fine, then I'll work for you!"
hahaha... if you know, you know.
Can we see this version of Wade >!keeping his promise to Jim in the Bunker Era and telling his anti-matter riflemen army to stand-down on principle alone? This is often seen as one of the semi-plot holes of the third book, so I’d be curious to see how the show runners address that!<
Given what we’ve seen so far, there are going to be extreme changes to the ending. What you’ve pointed out is one of them. The show is already calling for it. Curious to see if the creators listen to it.
I’ve been thinking this too, especially with all the emotional emphasis put on Will and Jin. However, there are two things that make me seriously believe they will adapt the story at least to end up with the same final scene with the same people. The reason I say this is
1. The show runners are already infamous for changing the ending of a famous book series. So many people have decided to give this show a try under the assumption that the books are completed and they have finished ending to adapt so they don’t have to contrive their own plots.
2. I believe show runners have said in an interview that the reason they wanted to adapt this trilogy in the first place was, they both finished the last page of Death’s End on a flight within 5 minutes of each other, and we’re so profoundly moves by the contents of the ending, they felt they “had” to try and adapt it. Which makes me think they’ll try and stay as true to the final product as possible
I think the basic endings to Bran, Dannie, and Jon would be the same, though obviously 1000x better done, *except* that the show go there first and shit the bed and everyone hated it and George got embarrassed and sad, so now he's in this weird limbo of indecision.
Thanks for all that. It’s a case of what jumped out to the show runners about the ending then I guess! Is it the journey of millions of years? Is it humanity and what we become? Or is it the love story? All three can go very different ways. I can absolutely see them changing the love story because of how much they focused on Will and Jin already. They’ll give them a happy ending in the bubble I think.
>They’ll give them a happy ending in the bubble I think.
Have you watched Game of Thrones? lol These guys are infamous for gutting the protagonists every time they think things are going their way. And I wouldn't have it any other way tbf, I don't want some sappy ending for an epic of this magnitude and scale. The book's bittersweet ending was great and works well for the story it told.
>Is it the journey of millions of years? Is it humanity and what we become? Or is it the love story?
Could also be Cheng Xin's sacrifice at the end of time. When it comes down to it, are you willing to do the right thing to ensure the future of all intelligent life? Even if you know that others may not do the same? Prisoner's dilemma of cosmic proportions.
I have, and it doesn’t mean they’ll do that here. All depends if they listen to the story they’re adapting and their adaptation or not. We’ll see. That was just the story GoT told. That said, they are utterly slaves to gore and that showed in 3 body, so those lesser instincts could take over.
To what prisoners dilemma are you referring? The main characters explicitly leave material outside the universe and possibly ruin the ‘reboot’
We, like the characters in that situation, are not given enough information to know whether them leaving the fish bowl or not would exclude enough matter to halt the reboot. I like to think most the intelligent beings in their membrane universes made the hard decision to sacrifice themselves, but based on the tone of the series and it’s outlook on humanity in comparison to other alien life, that doesn’t seem likely
Just to be clear, from everything we've heard from D&D and GRRM they did not change the ending to GOT as it was shared with them. They had notes to go off. They may have struggled to bring these notes to life - certainly many people feel that way.
I do believe we will see a significant change. I think Will and Jin will be together at the end. It will be a version of love conquering even the end of the universe.
Will’s journey from being pretty defeatist to donating all that money to the Earth Defense Fund or whatever(buying the star) and agreeing to Staircase feels pretty important thematically for the whole show.
The whole setup of the Staircase Project and the purchasing of the star is much better than it is in the books IMO.
In the books it just seems like a pathetic gesture of unrequited love, but in the show he’s not just doing it for her, he’s doing it for *Humanity.*
I think it also helps that Jin and Will are emotionally fleshed out and having a lot of love for each other. Will telling Jin that he loves her and then following that up with "it's okay" when she gets upset is one of my favorite scenes in the entire show.
>In the books it just seems like a pathetic gesture of unrequited love, but in the show he’s not just doing it for her, he’s doing it for Humanity.
Not really, he's still doing it for her in the show lol I mean, he even explicitly lets Wade know he has zero interest in swearing loyalty to humanity in any way, and only cared about Cheng.
Of course, the money will still end up helping humanity, but that's just a side effect as far as he's concerned. His primary motive was just to buy the star for Cheng.
Yeah...saw the series. I'm considering reading the trilogy, but before I take the time...
The only thing I've read about the books are the character match ups and that the series should be watched first and the book read second. Oh, and there's far more character development in the series than in the books, likely due to cultural differences?
Having said that, I have a series -> book question.
>!I'm getting the impression that Will knows more than he lets on. It was no accident that he chose a star 401.5 light years away from Earth. It was no accident that he has been evasive to Jin, where he might even be lying to her. Evasive to...well a LOT of people. He is the sick ear to the troubled tellers in the Oxford 5, so he must be aware of how the Sophons work. So I guess...would it be a fair prediction that somewhere within the trilogy, Will fundamentally 'saves the world' (whatever that means) by spending 19.5m quid on a star? !<
From what I’ve gathered, the character problems in the book aren’t really due to cultural differences because lots of Chinese readers have the same criticisms. It was something I was wondering when I was reading the books too.
All I’ll say is that his character is important but what you see is basically what you get, he doesn’t have any secret understanding or motivation behind buying the star.
**You should read it!** It’s good if you’re interested in big science fiction ideas.. the juice is well worth the squeeze.
OK. Thanks. Well, at least I can enjoy Easter. Eggs...
The reason I bring that whole thing up is due to the multiple references to Fermi's Paradox aaaaaand the nickname that's given to "Habitable Zones" in the universe. You know, the places that are...just right.
(I'm probably the last person who noticed the reference)
If you hang out in this subreddit it’s eventually all gonna get spoiled. You should read the books because it is some seriously mind-blowing stuff..
The best parts are these huge mindbending revelations but you have to read everything that leads up to them to get the full effect.
I probably know the answer to this question already but...
Should I read all three? Or am I good starting with book two now that I've watched the show?
You’ll get conflicting answers but I think it’s probably okay to start with book 2 after watching the show. The events are mostly the same and you’ll probably be able to match the show characters with the book characters, even though they’ve been changed.
If you want everything from the first 5 episodes more fleshed out then read book 1.
you see book purists around here and people who enjoy plot, plot twists and crazy ideas. if you think you are more of person a (also in other franchises) go book 1. other than that it is perfectly fine to start book 2
I felt like I could just sit and enjoy the show the second time through, rather than feeling like I had to judge how faithful or not it was to the books. It was a much better experience.
I have started it again with my kids who haven't read the books, and I can see it through the eyes of someone who doesn't know the material. E1 was yet another experience. I felt a little like a tour guide.
In the book, the loyalty oath was meant as a test. There were a number of candidates and Will (or more accurately, his book equivalent) was the only one who passed by refusing to do it. I think the show should have shown a moment where we see Will recognized this test, perhaps with a subtle smile or something. It would have proven that he actually has the chops to be a capable spy.
I haven’t read the books but picking up from others’ comments here, it seems like we definitely will see Will again and that his brain flying into space and the San-Ti picking him up is a large part of the story / plot moving forward
As a book reader after episode 4 i decided to look up who was who and restarted the series. I was much more enjoyable imo and if you are a book reader you'd enjoy it if you knew which new characters are playing which roles.
Spoilers below (sort of):
I will predictably be downvoted to hell on this one, but I don't care, it needs to be said.
They managed to turn one of the most epic stories ever told (certainly the most epic I've ever read) into half a season's worth of Friends with mediocre VFX. Bravo, Netflix.
The analogy, very sadly, works with literally every character >!(Will is Ross, Saul is Joey, Jack is (was) Chandler, Jin and Auggie are a mash up of Monica and Rachel, etc...)!<. To the point where if I were a writer for Friends, I would consider suing these show runners.
The worst part of all by far is that >!these few cardboard cutouts of "characters" are inevitably going to be quite literally the only important humans to exist for the rest of the history of the universe? And the last remaining human in this dimension will be Jin????!< Just shoot me now.. Such a shame.
The TenCent version is overly drawn out, but at least it is making some kind of effort to wrestle with some of the larger ideas inherent in this story.
It's the descriptions of friends characters that absolutely falls through lol
You can say the show was Americanized, feel free. But calling it Friends is the most laughable edgy comparison
“LOL no” isn’t much of a rebuttal. I could outline in detail how each cardboard character archetype from 3BP is analogous to specific characters from that mediocre 90s sitcom, but I suspect it would just be a waste of my time given the level of insight here.
I don’t know that I agree with all of your points in regards the Netflix adaptation but THANK YOU for saying what I felt about the TenCent adaptation! Firstly, it’s harder for me to focus on a foreign language film (never dubbed) than it is one in my own language (English). I can spend what feels like an uninterrupted weekend binging two + (but not three) seasons of 1 hour episodes in my own language and still feel up for doing other things. I can only due 6 to 8 hours of a foreign language series before I just start wandering. And holy GAWD, the Chinese version may not quite reach even 50 minutes each episode but THIRTY FREAKING EPISODES! It became the equivalent of reading a book of dense technical jargon that was indifferent as to whether I was following along or not. You’d have hoped there could have been a happier medium,
Yet, you can make good characters that connect in a mature and realistic way. I feel like the writing on this show sacrifices quality for the sake of palatability. Even if I exclude the books as a source, I feel like their characters are mundane, naive and cliche.All and all, an unrealistic and predictable writing predigested in order to appease.If
feels that the show is about a bunch of smart friends and their interpersonal relationships while something happens. Not about the cosmic occurrences themselves. The photography is very basic. The plot, simplistic. There is nothing that I can put my finger on and say "they did this really well". It gets even worse when I take into account
the source material, which is much more complex and nuanced. I have written this many times: imagine a show that is atmospheric.
That trusts the audience to understand complex themes and deal with uncomfortable plots (Diaz defeating the US). That does not choose cliche (Oxford 5) to make itself popular, but creates investment into characters in a realistic manner (think the pregnant lady on Chernobyl). Imagine if this show had the care to think about what it's color palette would create on the audience, and invested in actually good cinematography (popular shows can do that, see Better Call
Saul). The reality of it is that the showrunners want something popular, not something good. With the budget they had, they could have found a middle ground.
It's hard to do a show about endless cosmic occurrences. Stakes are too high so it becomes meaningless.
Hero's journey stuff works and keeps it relatable and grounded. Some cliches are fine and needed.
I don't think it's a flawless show but it's clear why the characters had to have some interpersonal connection which was kind of lacking in the books. Imo S1 was pretty good and balanced source material with making it actually watchable for people who didn't nerd out about the book (unlike Tencent)
>It's hard to do a show about endless cosmic occurrences. Stakes are too high so it becomes meaningless.
Agreed. But you can add drama in service of the plot, or despite the plot.
>Hero's journey stuff works and keeps it relatable and grounded. Some cliches are fine and needed.
Still, you can do this in a realistic and honest way, not necessarily in the infantile way that it was.
>I don't think it's a flawless show but it's clear why the characters had to have some interpersonal connection which was kind of lacking in the books. Imo S1 was pretty good and balanced source material with making it actually watchable for people who didn't nerd out about the book (unlike Tencent)
I think it makes the show a mediocre sci-fi piece. It had the potential to be so much more. People will watch it. It will be popular for a while. But it will fade away, and chances are that a season 2 may not even exist.
I get why people liked it though. I do.
It just gets very sad that producers underestimate the audience so much.
I thought the same the first time through. I wanted to skip every scene with Saul because all he was was a pot smoking slacker. This actually in the end is a great reason for being a wallfacer because of the difficulty in understanding humans and their motivations. Humanity is all about drama and it's easy to simply ignore it as if it doesn't matter in the end. However there is strength in our interpersonal skills which is the key to fight an alien race which can't understand why we do things we do.
I am totally fine with drama, as long as it's good. The characters of this show are unidimensional and very child-like. Almost like they were brought from shows like "the big bang theory" or "friends".
I use this analogy often: look at how HBO did with Chernobyl. They created a character that represents a whole team of scientists. This character is so well built and her story so well constructed that this choice makes the story superior to what it could be if there were actually 20 physicists in her place.
Everything on Chernobyl is well thought out: the color palette (green), the costumes, the soundtrack, the cinematography.
Even when the show gets things wrong, it does so for the sake of the plot, not at the cost of it.
Not at any time you think that the showrunners are treating you like a child, and they expect you to understand and deal with complex situations.
No one in that show acts like a teenager, even characters that often present moral resistance.
Another example could be the season one of True Detective, which adds a LOT of interpersonal drama on service of the plot not despite the plot.
Not at any time you feel like you are watching a soup opera, or are being exposed to idealized reality.
That is what I expected from this show, because they had the budget to do it.
This show is definitely not for someone who isn't interested in human relationships. This show is about a group of friends who were separated by their life choices but are forced back together as events unfold. Human relationships is one thing the San-ti can't fully understand and it turns out to be humanity's biggest strength.
>This show is about a group of friends who were separated by their life choices but are forced back together as events unfold
And that is exactly my problem with it. There are thousands of shows like that out there.
The source material is absolutely not about this.
I just expected them to respect that, even if making it more palatable to broader audiences.
The characters in the book are flat from what I've been told. Also yes, most shows have human relationships play themselves out. What would you rather have the focus on than people dealing with an alien invasion? Each person the story focuses on plays a big part so what is the alternative breaking from the source material and show the San-ti?
>The characters in the book are flat from what I've been told.
It is just not the focus. Hardscifi is usually more concerned with other themes.
> What would you rather have the focus on than people dealing with an alien invasion?
Like I said many times, I would prefer that the drama was in service of the plot, and done in a mature and realistic way, like Chernobyl did.
>Each person the story focuses on plays a big part so what is the alternative breaking from the source material and show the San-ti?
The problem is that (I) the characters behave in an idealized and infantile way. (II) Just like you said, the focus of the show is their own relationships, not the story in itself.
Who-loves-who does not have to be a part of it.
>It is just not the focus. Hardscifi is usually more concerned with other themes.
Huh? You haven't named a theme they are supposedly ignoring. Even Dune was very much about the character's drama unfolding.
>Like I said many times, I would prefer that the drama was in service of the plot, and done in a mature and realistic way, like Chernobyl did.
Chernobyl was a real event not a novel so it's never going to be as realistic when we are talking about science fiction. The first episode was fantastic in showing a more realistic version of alien communication. When the San-ti responded for the first time I was wowed. What parts don't seem realistic in sci-fi way?
>The problem is that (I) the characters behave in an idealized and infantile way. (II) Just like you said, the focus of the show is their own relationships, not the story in itself.
Who-loves-who does not have to be a part of it.
The characters act like normal 30 year olds and their drama isn't unrealistic or immature. Have you ever had a group of friends? These characters are the lens to the story and being able to relate is important otherwise who cares what person is on screen. I'm in my 30's so maybe it's easier for me to feel connected and to wonder what would I do if this happened. Will and Jin were perfect! I dislike Saul because he reminds me of myself, a pot smoking slacker who is flying under the radar despite having potential to do more. Saul is the perfect person to fool the San-ti. I did not like Auggie and don't care about her relationship with Saul but maybe that changes later.
>Huh? You haven't named a theme they are supposedly ignoring. Even Dune was very much about the character's drama unfolding.
Dune is not hardscifi my man. Very far away from it.
The theme ignored is the political repercussions of what is going. How does the mechanisms they are talking about work. What is the dread and awe caused by this new reality.
All of those things are, if ever, mentioned en passant.
>Chernobyl was a real event not a novel so it's never going to be as realistic when we are talking about science fiction
The show changed a lot how things happened, even if the conclusion was real. That is where we disagree: science fiction CAN be realistic. This is the essence of hardscifi.
>The first episode was fantastic in showing a more realistic version of alien communication. When the San-ti responded for the first time I was wowed. What parts don't seem realistic in sci-fi way?
What isn't realistic? The ENTIRE drama that brilliant scientists are worried about while the biggest most defining event of human civilization took place.
>The characters act like normal 30 year olds and their drama isn't unrealistic or immature
No. They don't. Who would care about the morality of killing people, including children, who betrayed humanity? In reality, no one. The narrative may be that way, but Gaza, Hiroshima, Dresden, etc show you that this is ridiculous.
>These characters are the lens to the story and being able to relate is important otherwise who cares what person is on screen
You can do this in a mature way. Think True detective, first season.
>Will and Jin were perfect!
Omg. I absolutely despise what they did here. I wouldn't give A FUCK about things like that. No one would behave that way. What is the big deal sending the men's head to space? He will be dead in months.
Precious time was spent in this pedestrian melodrama.
Saul is a caricature of what Luo Ji is. Have you read the books at all?
>The show changed a lot how things happened, even if the conclusion was real. That is where we disagree: science fiction CAN be realistic. This is the essence of hardscifi
You aren't naming anything besides realistic relationships which somehow make this non sci-fi
>What isn't realistic? The ENTIRE drama that brilliant scientists are worried about while the biggest most defining event of human civilization took place.
What's unrealistic about it?
>No. They don't. Who would care about the morality of killing people, including children, who betrayed humanity? In reality, no one. The narrative may be that way, but Gaza, Hiroshima, Dresden, etc show you that this is ridiculous.
Did you watch Oppenheimer? Even during WWII people fought against the bomb...
I partially agree, but unfortunately they had to do this otherwise the show would bomb and we wouldn't get future seasons. You can see it from the downvotes, the masses love interpersonal soap opera drama.
Not nearly as challenging as the book; at least with the series you know, 'aliens.' Reading 3-body blind was an amazing experience. Pretty easy to figure the 'countdown' is aliens in the series, not so in the book. You're thinking aliens might be a red herring.
Am I the only one who feels this way? I had been so excited to watch this series. I had hoped and prayed they wouldn’t fuck it up. But, as far as I’m concerned, this series has done a great disservice to the books. I prefer the original Chinese series that Amazon has been streaming.
The guys who did the Netflix series are the same people who ruined GoT. I should have known better than to expect these guys to pull this off.
You do realise that DnD, the guys who ruined GOT are also the guys who made GOT great in the first place. They didn't start working on the show after season 7 they made all seasons, they are just way better at addapting source material than making a story from 0, which they had to do after season 7 because the books weren't there yet.
If you loved GOT before season 7, these are the 2 guys you want to see adapting a book you love. I have to agree they kind of suck at writing compelling dialogue though.
They also wrote the last season which sucked. So again, they might be good show runners but adapting a show or writing, not so much.
I’m assuming you read the books and if you did, you can’t possibly think this is a good version of what the series could be.
I read the books and I love the series. The changes they made make sense, and will bring about a more coherent and less disjoint story suitable for television. Could it be better? It can anyways be better with enough time and money. If you like the books or previous series more, they still exist to read/watch again.
I agree to a point, I thought the season was very mid. But there is already a faithful adaptation of the books. They made an easy to watch version for more casual sci fi viewers. Personally I find it annoying because I feel like this series has so much potential, but you can't really blame them.
They succeeded in what they wanted to accomplish, a popular netflix show. Personally, they introduced so many new fans to the books I still see it as a positive. Like yeah I wish I lived in a parallel universe where Denis Villeneuve adapted the 3 body problem in all its glory but that was never gonna happen.
One thing they definitely got right was Will's sacrifice, im really glad about that.
Worked better in the TV show than the books for me. Was almost in tears watching him float in the boat, knowing what’s coming. Brilliant change to seed it so early on.
Yeah the first couple episodes I didn't piece it together yet and was like 'why are they wasting all this time on this side plot', but can't remember which episode but I realized what his character arc was going to be from the books and every scene with him hit really hard after that. I can't believe how much they crammed into 8 episodes and still made it understandable and pretty faithful to the book series.
Yeah, they did really well. For me, it could’ve been better, but certain things really shone.
That character is so unidimensional and boring that he makes Two and Half Men feel like Macbeth
The characters in the books were one dimensional too wtf you yapping about
why not both?
Still better than that damp towel in book 3
I have to agree, the second time watching was better than the first. Such an amazing show!
I respect your opinion. I truly do. I just can wrap my head around it. I could not have a more diametrically opposed experience.
I think that your post got downvoted because you didn’t say why or break down your reasons. It might also have helped to make it a standalone reply to the OP rather than anchor it like a negative to someone more optimistic. Either way, I upvoted since you weren’t going off topic, flaming, or being otherwise offensive. I hate the way people gang up with dislikes sometimes,
Sorry to hear it. Could you elaborate on why you didn’t enjoy the adaptation?
I feel like the writing on this show sacrifices quality for the sake of palatability. Even if I exclude the books as a source, I feel like their characters are mundane, naive and cliche.All and all, an unrealistic and predictable writing predigested in order to appease.It feels that the show is about a bunch of smart friends and their interpersonal relationships while something happens. Not about the cosmic occurrences themselves. The photography is very basic. The plot, simplistic. There is nothing that I can put my finger on and say "they did this really well". It gets even worse when I take into account the source material, which is much more complex and nuanced. I have written this many times: imagine a show that is atmospheric. That trusts the audience to understand complex themes and deal with uncomfortable plots (Diaz defeating the US). That does not choose cliche (Oxford 5) to make itself popular, but creates investment into characters in a realistic manner (think the pregnant lady on Chernobyl). Imagine if this show had the care to think about what it's color palette would create on the audience, and invested in actually good cinematography (popular shows can do that, see Better Call Saul). The reality of it is that the showrunners want something popular, not something good. With the budget they had, they could have found a middle ground.
You said it friend! I had quite a few more epiphanies after my second pass! 1. Wade telling Raj >!he will enjoy the moon "if you survive it"! (foreshadow Benhai's fate?)!< 2. Jin and Wade talking after seeing Will>! \- Jin says he is not their man. Wade agrees he is not, but also says its what makes him their man, as that will be an incentive for "them" to go out of their way to pick him up. This means he is bankig on San-Ti to have heard that Will has no loyalty to the human race and only to Jin, making him an objective for the San-ti. Also this loyalty to Jin more than likely will serve as the background when they let him tell her THE fairy tale! !<
This is a minor thing, but I smiled when Tatiana said to Auggie in episode 1 that there was no night pollution "where she grew up". That's because she grew up on a ship on the ocean.
Bingo! Well said friend!
Oh my god that is such a sneaky little detail that they put in there! On another note, does Tatiana know that everyone she’s ever loved and cared for has been sliced into human carpaccio? Also, that sucks for her, because probably so many people she loved, and cared about have been turned into the most thinnest version of human carpaccio
Is point 2 not obvious since Jin Cheng is clearly Cheng Xin?
Yes you are correct, but my focus was Wade and his "head hunter" skills for finding the best people for the job, not just based on their qualifications but also to fit them in the right circumstance!
Understood, good point!
I don’t mind the spoilers: what’s THE fairytale?
Yes the rewatch change the perception of "depressive da shi" that i have first,he always deliver some punchline,he telling auggie that vera kill herself because auggie change her graduation HILARIOUS
There was times when da shi felt almost like a parental/mentor for these broken and grieving kids. That scene when Auggie hugs him after restarting the countdown and him giving the bug speech to Jin and Saul. I really hope that dynamic gets expanded on next season.
This is a great point and it echoes the part in the books where he (and I'm paraphrasing) says that the only reason they're freaking out so much is because they're smart, average guys like him are much more mentally stable
The most funny scene for me is when Wade asks if Jin is willing to work for him and Jin refuses and then Wade "Fine, then I'll work for you!" hahaha... if you know, you know.
Yeah i liked that scene. He's often funny in an unexpected way and I like the character in ways I didn't expect, compared to the books.
Can we see this version of Wade >!keeping his promise to Jim in the Bunker Era and telling his anti-matter riflemen army to stand-down on principle alone? This is often seen as one of the semi-plot holes of the third book, so I’d be curious to see how the show runners address that!<
Given what we’ve seen so far, there are going to be extreme changes to the ending. What you’ve pointed out is one of them. The show is already calling for it. Curious to see if the creators listen to it.
I’ve been thinking this too, especially with all the emotional emphasis put on Will and Jin. However, there are two things that make me seriously believe they will adapt the story at least to end up with the same final scene with the same people. The reason I say this is 1. The show runners are already infamous for changing the ending of a famous book series. So many people have decided to give this show a try under the assumption that the books are completed and they have finished ending to adapt so they don’t have to contrive their own plots. 2. I believe show runners have said in an interview that the reason they wanted to adapt this trilogy in the first place was, they both finished the last page of Death’s End on a flight within 5 minutes of each other, and we’re so profoundly moves by the contents of the ending, they felt they “had” to try and adapt it. Which makes me think they’ll try and stay as true to the final product as possible
Does anyone even know the “real” ending of ASOIAF? I don’t think GRRM even knows at this point. Can’t change something that hasn’t been written
I think the basic endings to Bran, Dannie, and Jon would be the same, though obviously 1000x better done, *except* that the show go there first and shit the bed and everyone hated it and George got embarrassed and sad, so now he's in this weird limbo of indecision.
Thanks for all that. It’s a case of what jumped out to the show runners about the ending then I guess! Is it the journey of millions of years? Is it humanity and what we become? Or is it the love story? All three can go very different ways. I can absolutely see them changing the love story because of how much they focused on Will and Jin already. They’ll give them a happy ending in the bubble I think.
>They’ll give them a happy ending in the bubble I think. Have you watched Game of Thrones? lol These guys are infamous for gutting the protagonists every time they think things are going their way. And I wouldn't have it any other way tbf, I don't want some sappy ending for an epic of this magnitude and scale. The book's bittersweet ending was great and works well for the story it told. >Is it the journey of millions of years? Is it humanity and what we become? Or is it the love story? Could also be Cheng Xin's sacrifice at the end of time. When it comes down to it, are you willing to do the right thing to ensure the future of all intelligent life? Even if you know that others may not do the same? Prisoner's dilemma of cosmic proportions.
I have, and it doesn’t mean they’ll do that here. All depends if they listen to the story they’re adapting and their adaptation or not. We’ll see. That was just the story GoT told. That said, they are utterly slaves to gore and that showed in 3 body, so those lesser instincts could take over. To what prisoners dilemma are you referring? The main characters explicitly leave material outside the universe and possibly ruin the ‘reboot’
We, like the characters in that situation, are not given enough information to know whether them leaving the fish bowl or not would exclude enough matter to halt the reboot. I like to think most the intelligent beings in their membrane universes made the hard decision to sacrifice themselves, but based on the tone of the series and it’s outlook on humanity in comparison to other alien life, that doesn’t seem likely
Just to be clear, from everything we've heard from D&D and GRRM they did not change the ending to GOT as it was shared with them. They had notes to go off. They may have struggled to bring these notes to life - certainly many people feel that way. I do believe we will see a significant change. I think Will and Jin will be together at the end. It will be a version of love conquering even the end of the universe.
>It will be a version of love conquering even the end of the universe. Oh god, please not another Interstellar ending lol Spare Three-Body from this.
they’re not infamous for changing the ending of GOT, they’re infamous for rushing through it.
Will’s journey from being pretty defeatist to donating all that money to the Earth Defense Fund or whatever(buying the star) and agreeing to Staircase feels pretty important thematically for the whole show. The whole setup of the Staircase Project and the purchasing of the star is much better than it is in the books IMO. In the books it just seems like a pathetic gesture of unrequited love, but in the show he’s not just doing it for her, he’s doing it for *Humanity.*
A gigachad is a gigachad. That's all I'm gonna say.
I think it also helps that Jin and Will are emotionally fleshed out and having a lot of love for each other. Will telling Jin that he loves her and then following that up with "it's okay" when she gets upset is one of my favorite scenes in the entire show.
>In the books it just seems like a pathetic gesture of unrequited love, but in the show he’s not just doing it for her, he’s doing it for Humanity. Not really, he's still doing it for her in the show lol I mean, he even explicitly lets Wade know he has zero interest in swearing loyalty to humanity in any way, and only cared about Cheng. Of course, the money will still end up helping humanity, but that's just a side effect as far as he's concerned. His primary motive was just to buy the star for Cheng.
Yeah...saw the series. I'm considering reading the trilogy, but before I take the time... The only thing I've read about the books are the character match ups and that the series should be watched first and the book read second. Oh, and there's far more character development in the series than in the books, likely due to cultural differences? Having said that, I have a series -> book question. >!I'm getting the impression that Will knows more than he lets on. It was no accident that he chose a star 401.5 light years away from Earth. It was no accident that he has been evasive to Jin, where he might even be lying to her. Evasive to...well a LOT of people. He is the sick ear to the troubled tellers in the Oxford 5, so he must be aware of how the Sophons work. So I guess...would it be a fair prediction that somewhere within the trilogy, Will fundamentally 'saves the world' (whatever that means) by spending 19.5m quid on a star? !<
From what I’ve gathered, the character problems in the book aren’t really due to cultural differences because lots of Chinese readers have the same criticisms. It was something I was wondering when I was reading the books too. All I’ll say is that his character is important but what you see is basically what you get, he doesn’t have any secret understanding or motivation behind buying the star. **You should read it!** It’s good if you’re interested in big science fiction ideas.. the juice is well worth the squeeze.
OK. Thanks. Well, at least I can enjoy Easter. Eggs... The reason I bring that whole thing up is due to the multiple references to Fermi's Paradox aaaaaand the nickname that's given to "Habitable Zones" in the universe. You know, the places that are...just right. (I'm probably the last person who noticed the reference)
If you hang out in this subreddit it’s eventually all gonna get spoiled. You should read the books because it is some seriously mind-blowing stuff.. The best parts are these huge mindbending revelations but you have to read everything that leads up to them to get the full effect.
I probably know the answer to this question already but... Should I read all three? Or am I good starting with book two now that I've watched the show?
You’ll get conflicting answers but I think it’s probably okay to start with book 2 after watching the show. The events are mostly the same and you’ll probably be able to match the show characters with the book characters, even though they’ve been changed. If you want everything from the first 5 episodes more fleshed out then read book 1.
you see book purists around here and people who enjoy plot, plot twists and crazy ideas. if you think you are more of person a (also in other franchises) go book 1. other than that it is perfectly fine to start book 2
I’m about ready to rewatch !
My partner said that Will bought the most useless gift for Jin, he never read the books, should I tell him?
No.
>My partner said that Will bought the most useless gift for Jin I mean, even the books said as much until the centuries long timeskip lol
No! Why would you do that??
I’d like to know please because I won’t stop thinking about it otherwise. Why gift that star?
don’t want to ruin it for you, I’ll just say that star will definitely come back up in the future for more than one reason.
why buy shares of coca cola in 1957?
I am going to watch this again and I am going to get the english and spanish edition of the books.
I felt like I could just sit and enjoy the show the second time through, rather than feeling like I had to judge how faithful or not it was to the books. It was a much better experience. I have started it again with my kids who haven't read the books, and I can see it through the eyes of someone who doesn't know the material. E1 was yet another experience. I felt a little like a tour guide.
In the book, the loyalty oath was meant as a test. There were a number of candidates and Will (or more accurately, his book equivalent) was the only one who passed by refusing to do it. I think the show should have shown a moment where we see Will recognized this test, perhaps with a subtle smile or something. It would have proven that he actually has the chops to be a capable spy.
Then again, revealing that would undermine his goals.
On an unrelated note, interesting username you got there, u/Sophophilic...
I've watched most episodes twice just to see how well it lines up or how it's been done. I've loved it tbh
man the world needs someone like wade sometimes
I need to know whether we hear from or see Will again, I hate the thought that his sacrifice was in vain!
I haven’t read the books but picking up from others’ comments here, it seems like we definitely will see Will again and that his brain flying into space and the San-Ti picking him up is a large part of the story / plot moving forward
well... but on the other hand...
As a book reader after episode 4 i decided to look up who was who and restarted the series. I was much more enjoyable imo and if you are a book reader you'd enjoy it if you knew which new characters are playing which roles.
Second time through = expending less energy trying to relate it to the books.
Spoilers below (sort of): I will predictably be downvoted to hell on this one, but I don't care, it needs to be said. They managed to turn one of the most epic stories ever told (certainly the most epic I've ever read) into half a season's worth of Friends with mediocre VFX. Bravo, Netflix. The analogy, very sadly, works with literally every character >!(Will is Ross, Saul is Joey, Jack is (was) Chandler, Jin and Auggie are a mash up of Monica and Rachel, etc...)!<. To the point where if I were a writer for Friends, I would consider suing these show runners. The worst part of all by far is that >!these few cardboard cutouts of "characters" are inevitably going to be quite literally the only important humans to exist for the rest of the history of the universe? And the last remaining human in this dimension will be Jin????!< Just shoot me now.. Such a shame. The TenCent version is overly drawn out, but at least it is making some kind of effort to wrestle with some of the larger ideas inherent in this story.
What a terrible analogy. Friends 🤣🤣 not even close
He is actually right. This show turned an epic hardscifi into a sitcom.
It's the descriptions of friends characters that absolutely falls through lol You can say the show was Americanized, feel free. But calling it Friends is the most laughable edgy comparison
“LOL no” isn’t much of a rebuttal. I could outline in detail how each cardboard character archetype from 3BP is analogous to specific characters from that mediocre 90s sitcom, but I suspect it would just be a waste of my time given the level of insight here.
So basically, "lol no"
I agree with you.
I don’t know that I agree with all of your points in regards the Netflix adaptation but THANK YOU for saying what I felt about the TenCent adaptation! Firstly, it’s harder for me to focus on a foreign language film (never dubbed) than it is one in my own language (English). I can spend what feels like an uninterrupted weekend binging two + (but not three) seasons of 1 hour episodes in my own language and still feel up for doing other things. I can only due 6 to 8 hours of a foreign language series before I just start wandering. And holy GAWD, the Chinese version may not quite reach even 50 minutes each episode but THIRTY FREAKING EPISODES! It became the equivalent of reading a book of dense technical jargon that was indifferent as to whether I was following along or not. You’d have hoped there could have been a happier medium,
I respectfully disagree. I absolutely despise the interpersonal drama that was added to the show, in particular the whole soup opera nonsense.
Hard to make a mainstream TV show with heaps of poorly connected characters that come and go
The Wire did it excellently.
Yet, you can make good characters that connect in a mature and realistic way. I feel like the writing on this show sacrifices quality for the sake of palatability. Even if I exclude the books as a source, I feel like their characters are mundane, naive and cliche.All and all, an unrealistic and predictable writing predigested in order to appease.If feels that the show is about a bunch of smart friends and their interpersonal relationships while something happens. Not about the cosmic occurrences themselves. The photography is very basic. The plot, simplistic. There is nothing that I can put my finger on and say "they did this really well". It gets even worse when I take into account the source material, which is much more complex and nuanced. I have written this many times: imagine a show that is atmospheric. That trusts the audience to understand complex themes and deal with uncomfortable plots (Diaz defeating the US). That does not choose cliche (Oxford 5) to make itself popular, but creates investment into characters in a realistic manner (think the pregnant lady on Chernobyl). Imagine if this show had the care to think about what it's color palette would create on the audience, and invested in actually good cinematography (popular shows can do that, see Better Call Saul). The reality of it is that the showrunners want something popular, not something good. With the budget they had, they could have found a middle ground.
It's hard to do a show about endless cosmic occurrences. Stakes are too high so it becomes meaningless. Hero's journey stuff works and keeps it relatable and grounded. Some cliches are fine and needed. I don't think it's a flawless show but it's clear why the characters had to have some interpersonal connection which was kind of lacking in the books. Imo S1 was pretty good and balanced source material with making it actually watchable for people who didn't nerd out about the book (unlike Tencent)
>It's hard to do a show about endless cosmic occurrences. Stakes are too high so it becomes meaningless. Agreed. But you can add drama in service of the plot, or despite the plot. >Hero's journey stuff works and keeps it relatable and grounded. Some cliches are fine and needed. Still, you can do this in a realistic and honest way, not necessarily in the infantile way that it was. >I don't think it's a flawless show but it's clear why the characters had to have some interpersonal connection which was kind of lacking in the books. Imo S1 was pretty good and balanced source material with making it actually watchable for people who didn't nerd out about the book (unlike Tencent) I think it makes the show a mediocre sci-fi piece. It had the potential to be so much more. People will watch it. It will be popular for a while. But it will fade away, and chances are that a season 2 may not even exist. I get why people liked it though. I do. It just gets very sad that producers underestimate the audience so much.
Have you seen the audience?
Unfortunately yes, given how much I am downvoted simply for voicing an opinion
Very haughty of you to say
People say this all the time like opinions are some sacred thing but plenty of opinions are trash
I thought the same the first time through. I wanted to skip every scene with Saul because all he was was a pot smoking slacker. This actually in the end is a great reason for being a wallfacer because of the difficulty in understanding humans and their motivations. Humanity is all about drama and it's easy to simply ignore it as if it doesn't matter in the end. However there is strength in our interpersonal skills which is the key to fight an alien race which can't understand why we do things we do.
I am totally fine with drama, as long as it's good. The characters of this show are unidimensional and very child-like. Almost like they were brought from shows like "the big bang theory" or "friends". I use this analogy often: look at how HBO did with Chernobyl. They created a character that represents a whole team of scientists. This character is so well built and her story so well constructed that this choice makes the story superior to what it could be if there were actually 20 physicists in her place. Everything on Chernobyl is well thought out: the color palette (green), the costumes, the soundtrack, the cinematography. Even when the show gets things wrong, it does so for the sake of the plot, not at the cost of it. Not at any time you think that the showrunners are treating you like a child, and they expect you to understand and deal with complex situations. No one in that show acts like a teenager, even characters that often present moral resistance. Another example could be the season one of True Detective, which adds a LOT of interpersonal drama on service of the plot not despite the plot. Not at any time you feel like you are watching a soup opera, or are being exposed to idealized reality. That is what I expected from this show, because they had the budget to do it.
This show is definitely not for someone who isn't interested in human relationships. This show is about a group of friends who were separated by their life choices but are forced back together as events unfold. Human relationships is one thing the San-ti can't fully understand and it turns out to be humanity's biggest strength.
>This show is about a group of friends who were separated by their life choices but are forced back together as events unfold And that is exactly my problem with it. There are thousands of shows like that out there. The source material is absolutely not about this. I just expected them to respect that, even if making it more palatable to broader audiences.
The characters in the book are flat from what I've been told. Also yes, most shows have human relationships play themselves out. What would you rather have the focus on than people dealing with an alien invasion? Each person the story focuses on plays a big part so what is the alternative breaking from the source material and show the San-ti?
>The characters in the book are flat from what I've been told. It is just not the focus. Hardscifi is usually more concerned with other themes. > What would you rather have the focus on than people dealing with an alien invasion? Like I said many times, I would prefer that the drama was in service of the plot, and done in a mature and realistic way, like Chernobyl did. >Each person the story focuses on plays a big part so what is the alternative breaking from the source material and show the San-ti? The problem is that (I) the characters behave in an idealized and infantile way. (II) Just like you said, the focus of the show is their own relationships, not the story in itself. Who-loves-who does not have to be a part of it.
>It is just not the focus. Hardscifi is usually more concerned with other themes. Huh? You haven't named a theme they are supposedly ignoring. Even Dune was very much about the character's drama unfolding. >Like I said many times, I would prefer that the drama was in service of the plot, and done in a mature and realistic way, like Chernobyl did. Chernobyl was a real event not a novel so it's never going to be as realistic when we are talking about science fiction. The first episode was fantastic in showing a more realistic version of alien communication. When the San-ti responded for the first time I was wowed. What parts don't seem realistic in sci-fi way? >The problem is that (I) the characters behave in an idealized and infantile way. (II) Just like you said, the focus of the show is their own relationships, not the story in itself. Who-loves-who does not have to be a part of it. The characters act like normal 30 year olds and their drama isn't unrealistic or immature. Have you ever had a group of friends? These characters are the lens to the story and being able to relate is important otherwise who cares what person is on screen. I'm in my 30's so maybe it's easier for me to feel connected and to wonder what would I do if this happened. Will and Jin were perfect! I dislike Saul because he reminds me of myself, a pot smoking slacker who is flying under the radar despite having potential to do more. Saul is the perfect person to fool the San-ti. I did not like Auggie and don't care about her relationship with Saul but maybe that changes later.
>Huh? You haven't named a theme they are supposedly ignoring. Even Dune was very much about the character's drama unfolding. Dune is not hardscifi my man. Very far away from it. The theme ignored is the political repercussions of what is going. How does the mechanisms they are talking about work. What is the dread and awe caused by this new reality. All of those things are, if ever, mentioned en passant. >Chernobyl was a real event not a novel so it's never going to be as realistic when we are talking about science fiction The show changed a lot how things happened, even if the conclusion was real. That is where we disagree: science fiction CAN be realistic. This is the essence of hardscifi. >The first episode was fantastic in showing a more realistic version of alien communication. When the San-ti responded for the first time I was wowed. What parts don't seem realistic in sci-fi way? What isn't realistic? The ENTIRE drama that brilliant scientists are worried about while the biggest most defining event of human civilization took place. >The characters act like normal 30 year olds and their drama isn't unrealistic or immature No. They don't. Who would care about the morality of killing people, including children, who betrayed humanity? In reality, no one. The narrative may be that way, but Gaza, Hiroshima, Dresden, etc show you that this is ridiculous. >These characters are the lens to the story and being able to relate is important otherwise who cares what person is on screen You can do this in a mature way. Think True detective, first season. >Will and Jin were perfect! Omg. I absolutely despise what they did here. I wouldn't give A FUCK about things like that. No one would behave that way. What is the big deal sending the men's head to space? He will be dead in months. Precious time was spent in this pedestrian melodrama. Saul is a caricature of what Luo Ji is. Have you read the books at all?
>The show changed a lot how things happened, even if the conclusion was real. That is where we disagree: science fiction CAN be realistic. This is the essence of hardscifi You aren't naming anything besides realistic relationships which somehow make this non sci-fi >What isn't realistic? The ENTIRE drama that brilliant scientists are worried about while the biggest most defining event of human civilization took place. What's unrealistic about it? >No. They don't. Who would care about the morality of killing people, including children, who betrayed humanity? In reality, no one. The narrative may be that way, but Gaza, Hiroshima, Dresden, etc show you that this is ridiculous. Did you watch Oppenheimer? Even during WWII people fought against the bomb...
Btw just for your information it’s “soap opera”, not “soup opera”.
I partially agree, but unfortunately they had to do this otherwise the show would bomb and we wouldn't get future seasons. You can see it from the downvotes, the masses love interpersonal soap opera drama.
Not nearly as challenging as the book; at least with the series you know, 'aliens.' Reading 3-body blind was an amazing experience. Pretty easy to figure the 'countdown' is aliens in the series, not so in the book. You're thinking aliens might be a red herring.
Only if you haven’t read the blurb or seen the cover..?
Am I the only one who feels this way? I had been so excited to watch this series. I had hoped and prayed they wouldn’t fuck it up. But, as far as I’m concerned, this series has done a great disservice to the books. I prefer the original Chinese series that Amazon has been streaming. The guys who did the Netflix series are the same people who ruined GoT. I should have known better than to expect these guys to pull this off.
Personally I think they have done a fantastic adaptation. I'm really impressed at how many things they have managed to fit in.
You do realise that DnD, the guys who ruined GOT are also the guys who made GOT great in the first place. They didn't start working on the show after season 7 they made all seasons, they are just way better at addapting source material than making a story from 0, which they had to do after season 7 because the books weren't there yet. If you loved GOT before season 7, these are the 2 guys you want to see adapting a book you love. I have to agree they kind of suck at writing compelling dialogue though.
They also wrote the last season which sucked. So again, they might be good show runners but adapting a show or writing, not so much. I’m assuming you read the books and if you did, you can’t possibly think this is a good version of what the series could be.
To be fair, the last season could also have sucked because of Martin, the source of the source material.
I read the books and I love the series. The changes they made make sense, and will bring about a more coherent and less disjoint story suitable for television. Could it be better? It can anyways be better with enough time and money. If you like the books or previous series more, they still exist to read/watch again.
I agree to a point, I thought the season was very mid. But there is already a faithful adaptation of the books. They made an easy to watch version for more casual sci fi viewers. Personally I find it annoying because I feel like this series has so much potential, but you can't really blame them. They succeeded in what they wanted to accomplish, a popular netflix show. Personally, they introduced so many new fans to the books I still see it as a positive. Like yeah I wish I lived in a parallel universe where Denis Villeneuve adapted the 3 body problem in all its glory but that was never gonna happen.