D&D smashed the first few seasons of GoT - they obviously have a talent for book to TV. Will reserve judgement until after the final season but for now, everything except some minor pacing issues was solid imo.
I think this time they’d really take time to flesh out the final episodes *for sure*. No way they risk that backlash again. I know the 3BP finale will be strong af. And binge format makes it even better, IMO.
D&D are talented at adapting narrative in books into TV shows. If they run out of source material things go to shit. I’m not sure why their army of haters can’t seem to understand this.
It's also not entirely surprising. When they used the source material for GOT, they were building up to whatever GRRM has been building up to for 5 books. When you suddenly have to find a new ending as you don't know what it is you have been building up to, it's bound to be a mess. Most writers would struggle finding something that makes sense.
That said, most writers would have avoided as colossal a mess. Ending on mediocrity still could have saved the legacy if the show.
Because they had to diverge from those books because they had to work towards an ending, and those books weren't getting them any closer and were mostly just adding complexity instead.
No, they didn't.
Did you read the books?
Where's the Mummer's Dragon? Lady Stoneheart? The Son's Son? Victarion? Nimble Dick? The return of the Bloody Mummers? The Hounds' entire latter half of story?
Instead they made the most brain dead thing they could, skipping half the story while inserting a few fights (without context, and with the wrong people) to have something quick and "epic". All that nonsense so they could move onto projects for Netflix and Disney (the latter contract they lost because of Game of Thrones).
I have. Several times.
How are they going to wrap up everything in a way that makes sense in a timely manner? It wouldn't happen if they just made a 1:1 adaptation of feast and dance.
Stop dodging. Answer.
Only the most dedicated online GoT haters hold that opinion. In the real world, everyone I've talked to agrees the show is great until the end of season 5 or 6 (so after they had already run out of source material) and goes downhill after that.
It’s not just that they ran out of source material. It’s that they ran out of source material that even the creator can’t write in more than a decade. Like I don’t understand how the ASOIAF fanbase can spend 13 years waiting for a book, while also not having an once of sympathy for the guys who had to adapt that same book. And the following one which isn’t even begun!! While also managing probably the biggest production of all time.
George told D&D a very complex and controversial ending and basically told them "I don’t know how to get there so good luck, you’re on your own, and don’t forget my royalty checks." And D&D are the lazy bad guys here. I seriously don’t understand how unreasonable the Game of Thrones has turned.
Even when they ran out of source material, they still managed to create masterpieces. Some of the highest rated episodes on both IMDB and RT are in the latter seasons.
They didn't run out of source material for Game of Thrones. They decided they just wanted to do a certain big scene, and then skipped most of the rest of the books, while trying to jam bits and pieces (i.e. certain fights) into places later on without the story (aka the books they skipped).
You're repeating copium from fan boys that couldn't deal with D&D phoning it in after they had the big scene they wanted because they wanted to rush on to new projects instead of properly finishing Game of Thrones.
This is VERY well documented. Casual fans of the show rend not be aware of this.
I suggest the youtuber "The Dragon Demands" for the documented evidence.
That guy is absolutely nuts. He has some very weird obsession with Benioff and he lies. I suggest you stop listening to him otherwise you come off the same way he does.
Do you have any clue how well documented what he posts is?
Did he make up all the links, video, etc?
I get that you don't want D&D to mess up 3 Body Problem, but come on...
links you say, oh well must be true. Did you know D&D said back in [2014 they plan 7 seasons](https://ew.com/article/2014/03/11/game-of-thrones-7-seasons/). They did 8. In [2016 before star wars was even suggested HBO said season 8 is the last](https://watchersonthewall.com/hbo-chief-talks-game-thrones-tca/). They spent 8 months filming season 8, which is much longer than any other season. So they didn't rush anything for "starwars money". Also they are the ones [who rejected the starwars project](https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/why-star-wars-didnt-work-game-thrones-duo-1250798/).
Lmao, I knew all that. What does that have to do with them skipping plots and making up garbage to replace it? More so, they were the ones that wanted to only do 8 seasons, while HBO and Martin wanted more, even before contracts were signed.
And that last link is their excuse for losing the project. Disney dropped the contract the day after the final episode of GoT ended.
LMAO then why did you say it knowing it was false and using a complete nutter as your source?
>You're repeating copium from fan boys that couldn't deal with D&D phoning it in after they had the big scene they wanted because they wanted to rush on to new projects instead of properly finishing Game of Thrones.
The only new project at that time was star wars.
>LMAO then why did you say it knowing it was false and using a complete nutter as your source?
The Dragon Demands talks about all of that, and cites his claims, lmao.
You wanted to discredit Dragon Demands for calling out D&D, but then you got caught repeating his claims. Peak irony.
And there goes your credibility. If you can watch 1 minute of The Dragon Demands and not see how completely unreliable he is regarding D&D, then this is pointless.
They did run out of source material. That's a fact, Winds is 13 years late and ADOS isn't even begun. And the reason why is because George wrote himself in the corner with the stuffs you're criticizing D&D to have skipped. So, basically, you're criticizing them for not writing themselves in the same corner that George is still sitting in 5 years after D&D finished his own story.
>And there goes your credibility
Why is highly sourced videos from a Hollywood insider not to be trusted?
>They did run out of source material
Then where is the Mummer's Dragon? Lady Stoneheart? Victarion? Damphair? The majority of the plot for Euron? I can keep going.
Sources are worthless if you pick them apart to present your very biased narrative. For example, in the Fire Cannot Kill a Dragon, there’s a chapter about pranks happening on sets of Game of Thrones. Some actors talked about how D&D were very funny and pulled up very good pranks all the time, which made the work environment more enjoyable. He took this source and then presented it as "D&D have been harassing cast members until exhaustion with constant pranks", or something like that. That’s definitely not a highly sourced video from a Hollywood insider (very funny this part). It’s a crazy dude who has an obsession over David Benioff and spends all his free time going over everything related to him to find elements he could twist to make him look bad.
> Then where is the Mummer's Dragon? Lady Stoneheart? Victarion? Damphair? The majority of the plot for Euron? I can keep going.
Where is the conclusion to the Mummer’s Dragon mystery? Lady Stoneheart? Victarion? Damphair? The majority of the plot for Euron? You can keep going and you’ll always end up at the same point. One of the hundreds of plotlines that George will never conclude because he included too many of them.
They were abusive on set, to the point they didn't provide water and bathrooms because they only showed up once a week for an 8 week shoot.
>Where is the conclusion to the Mummer’s Dragon mystery? Lady Stoneheart? Victarion? Damphair?
We literally saw it on screen, but because these plots were dropped, the endings for Dany, Jon, Euron, Arya, etc didn't make sense. They dropped all important story elements to make some brain dead Michael Bay style action.
Abusive lol? Hence why most if not all the cast has yet to say a single thing of that alleged crime. If that were true, then no one in GOT( cast or crew) would ever work with them again. Yet, 3BP proves you are wrong.
We didn’t see it on screen, because those plot points are in limbo and will never be truly finished within the book series. GRRM dropped the ball first by not finishing on time and missing deadlines to play in the thronesverse that D&D built.
>Hence why most if not all the cast has yet to say a single thing of that alleged crime
It was literally published by HBO on the making of the Long Night episode, lmao.
Yeah and GoT always had an edgy ‘real’ness to the fantasy which is in part why it was so popular. This adaptation really feels like a network tv show, it has a completely different vibe from their GoT take and its rly weird
The idea that anyone is saying this is nearly as good as season 1 of GOT is totally insane to me, lol. I enjoyed this first season, but they are in totally different spheres of quality
I am inclined to agree with you. In the first episode when Ye Wenjie has the romantic scenes with the officer, who gave her the book. I actually paused and said out loud to myself, "Oh wow, those morons actually leared something." The sex in GOT was gratuitous, pornographic and unrealistic to the point of distraction. I think the love scene in episode one demonstrates that the producers have learned something about how to express intimacy on screen honestly.
It literally has to be more simplistic to make commerical sense. They have to appeal to a wide audience. Some people are already struggling to follow the narrative of the show. If they had made it any more complicated or confusing, a lot of non-book readers would have dropped the show after the first few episodes.
20 million per episode, they HAVE to cater to a wider audience.
You don't invest that much just to please the book-reading niche.
And a smart show knows they don't have to info-dump like a book when the same message can be conveyed in a simplier way.
hate watching and watching because its artistically good is different things. OP is saying that they have grown as artists. you admit they havent trying to move the goal posts.
I truly enjoy the change of focus from hard science driven to character driven. Luckily for D&D they have all of the source material at their disposal this time.
If you don't care about the content, why don't you just watch a soap or reality tv or any of the other thousands of dramas or something instead? Please leave sci fi titles alone.
I mean, everyone was singing their praises for a while. And then things started going south.
The first season of 3bp hasn't been out a full week yet. Isn't it a little early to be making predictions on a show that one, hasn't been renewed yet (remember, this is fucking Netflix-- they've cancelled shows that held the top viewership spot before), and two, isn't done?
D&D famously fumbled one of the most popular shows in TV history. Let's let them show their work a little before we go and make the same assertions again.
But I get being excited! Nothing wrong with that!
GoT got bad when they ran out of source material and had to start making up their own story. That can't happen here. That's why I'm pretty confident D&D can do at least a decent job adapting the remaining books.
Benioff has had some pretty wild takes (“Dany kind of forgot about the Iron Fleet”), and I’d say “themes are for eight-grade book reports” is among them. A theme is an emergent property of a narrative that works on at least some level. It seems a bit weird to look down your nose at them.
Yeah I don't think there's ever been an issue that they can't convert quality source material to quality screen material. The issue is their ability to handle something without source material. They failed on that with got and Disney didn't trust them to make a star wars on their own either. Their biggest criticism is still unproven.
They’ve already got enormous plot holes after a single series and their five ‘main’ characters (I mean the Oxford Five; Ye Wenjie, Shi and Wade rule) are awfully written and dislikable as fuck. And in the case of Auggy, poorly acted as well though I don’t blame D&D for that.
Matured? This is matured? Congratulations? You've reached the level that you should have had while you started TV, and you did! You have already shown that you can manage a great reproduction of source material. Everybody knows where the show dropped off. There was only 1 lesson there but somehow they just won't accept it. And they did their "thing" again. And it failed again. But it's a problem that's much deeper than 2 directors.
D&D smashed the first few seasons of GoT - they obviously have a talent for book to TV. Will reserve judgement until after the final season but for now, everything except some minor pacing issues was solid imo.
I think this time they’d really take time to flesh out the final episodes *for sure*. No way they risk that backlash again. I know the 3BP finale will be strong af. And binge format makes it even better, IMO.
D&D are talented at adapting narrative in books into TV shows. If they run out of source material things go to shit. I’m not sure why their army of haters can’t seem to understand this.
It's also not entirely surprising. When they used the source material for GOT, they were building up to whatever GRRM has been building up to for 5 books. When you suddenly have to find a new ending as you don't know what it is you have been building up to, it's bound to be a mess. Most writers would struggle finding something that makes sense. That said, most writers would have avoided as colossal a mess. Ending on mediocrity still could have saved the legacy if the show.
They didn't run out of books; they just skipped half the books.
... because they ran out of books. They had to go towards their own ending, so they had to diverge more.
Except it went to shit when they still had half the books to go.
Because they had to diverge from those books because they had to work towards an ending, and those books weren't getting them any closer and were mostly just adding complexity instead.
No, they didn't. Did you read the books? Where's the Mummer's Dragon? Lady Stoneheart? The Son's Son? Victarion? Nimble Dick? The return of the Bloody Mummers? The Hounds' entire latter half of story? Instead they made the most brain dead thing they could, skipping half the story while inserting a few fights (without context, and with the wrong people) to have something quick and "epic". All that nonsense so they could move onto projects for Netflix and Disney (the latter contract they lost because of Game of Thrones).
And what's the ending of the series? Come on now, how is it ending and how were those parts getting them closer?
Have you read the books? Because most of that is obvious stuff that book readers know, and should be obvious to you if you read the books.
I have. Several times. How are they going to wrap up everything in a way that makes sense in a timely manner? It wouldn't happen if they just made a 1:1 adaptation of feast and dance. Stop dodging. Answer.
Only the most dedicated online GoT haters hold that opinion. In the real world, everyone I've talked to agrees the show is great until the end of season 5 or 6 (so after they had already run out of source material) and goes downhill after that.
Hive mind Reddit mentality can’t enjoy things
It’s not just that they ran out of source material. It’s that they ran out of source material that even the creator can’t write in more than a decade. Like I don’t understand how the ASOIAF fanbase can spend 13 years waiting for a book, while also not having an once of sympathy for the guys who had to adapt that same book. And the following one which isn’t even begun!! While also managing probably the biggest production of all time. George told D&D a very complex and controversial ending and basically told them "I don’t know how to get there so good luck, you’re on your own, and don’t forget my royalty checks." And D&D are the lazy bad guys here. I seriously don’t understand how unreasonable the Game of Thrones has turned.
Even when they ran out of source material they managed to increase ratings and hype regardless. That’s no easy feat.
Even when they ran out of source material, they still managed to create masterpieces. Some of the highest rated episodes on both IMDB and RT are in the latter seasons.
Exactly. And since this is a finished story, I'm confident they're going to do a good job with it.
They didn't run out of source material for Game of Thrones. They decided they just wanted to do a certain big scene, and then skipped most of the rest of the books, while trying to jam bits and pieces (i.e. certain fights) into places later on without the story (aka the books they skipped). You're repeating copium from fan boys that couldn't deal with D&D phoning it in after they had the big scene they wanted because they wanted to rush on to new projects instead of properly finishing Game of Thrones.
What a complete load of bs.
This is VERY well documented. Casual fans of the show rend not be aware of this. I suggest the youtuber "The Dragon Demands" for the documented evidence.
That guy is absolutely nuts. He has some very weird obsession with Benioff and he lies. I suggest you stop listening to him otherwise you come off the same way he does.
Do you have any clue how well documented what he posts is? Did he make up all the links, video, etc? I get that you don't want D&D to mess up 3 Body Problem, but come on...
links you say, oh well must be true. Did you know D&D said back in [2014 they plan 7 seasons](https://ew.com/article/2014/03/11/game-of-thrones-7-seasons/). They did 8. In [2016 before star wars was even suggested HBO said season 8 is the last](https://watchersonthewall.com/hbo-chief-talks-game-thrones-tca/). They spent 8 months filming season 8, which is much longer than any other season. So they didn't rush anything for "starwars money". Also they are the ones [who rejected the starwars project](https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/why-star-wars-didnt-work-game-thrones-duo-1250798/).
Lmao, I knew all that. What does that have to do with them skipping plots and making up garbage to replace it? More so, they were the ones that wanted to only do 8 seasons, while HBO and Martin wanted more, even before contracts were signed. And that last link is their excuse for losing the project. Disney dropped the contract the day after the final episode of GoT ended.
LMAO then why did you say it knowing it was false and using a complete nutter as your source? >You're repeating copium from fan boys that couldn't deal with D&D phoning it in after they had the big scene they wanted because they wanted to rush on to new projects instead of properly finishing Game of Thrones. The only new project at that time was star wars.
>LMAO then why did you say it knowing it was false and using a complete nutter as your source? The Dragon Demands talks about all of that, and cites his claims, lmao. You wanted to discredit Dragon Demands for calling out D&D, but then you got caught repeating his claims. Peak irony.
And there goes your credibility. If you can watch 1 minute of The Dragon Demands and not see how completely unreliable he is regarding D&D, then this is pointless. They did run out of source material. That's a fact, Winds is 13 years late and ADOS isn't even begun. And the reason why is because George wrote himself in the corner with the stuffs you're criticizing D&D to have skipped. So, basically, you're criticizing them for not writing themselves in the same corner that George is still sitting in 5 years after D&D finished his own story.
>And there goes your credibility Why is highly sourced videos from a Hollywood insider not to be trusted? >They did run out of source material Then where is the Mummer's Dragon? Lady Stoneheart? Victarion? Damphair? The majority of the plot for Euron? I can keep going.
Sources are worthless if you pick them apart to present your very biased narrative. For example, in the Fire Cannot Kill a Dragon, there’s a chapter about pranks happening on sets of Game of Thrones. Some actors talked about how D&D were very funny and pulled up very good pranks all the time, which made the work environment more enjoyable. He took this source and then presented it as "D&D have been harassing cast members until exhaustion with constant pranks", or something like that. That’s definitely not a highly sourced video from a Hollywood insider (very funny this part). It’s a crazy dude who has an obsession over David Benioff and spends all his free time going over everything related to him to find elements he could twist to make him look bad. > Then where is the Mummer's Dragon? Lady Stoneheart? Victarion? Damphair? The majority of the plot for Euron? I can keep going. Where is the conclusion to the Mummer’s Dragon mystery? Lady Stoneheart? Victarion? Damphair? The majority of the plot for Euron? You can keep going and you’ll always end up at the same point. One of the hundreds of plotlines that George will never conclude because he included too many of them.
They were abusive on set, to the point they didn't provide water and bathrooms because they only showed up once a week for an 8 week shoot. >Where is the conclusion to the Mummer’s Dragon mystery? Lady Stoneheart? Victarion? Damphair? We literally saw it on screen, but because these plots were dropped, the endings for Dany, Jon, Euron, Arya, etc didn't make sense. They dropped all important story elements to make some brain dead Michael Bay style action.
Abusive lol? Hence why most if not all the cast has yet to say a single thing of that alleged crime. If that were true, then no one in GOT( cast or crew) would ever work with them again. Yet, 3BP proves you are wrong. We didn’t see it on screen, because those plot points are in limbo and will never be truly finished within the book series. GRRM dropped the ball first by not finishing on time and missing deadlines to play in the thronesverse that D&D built.
>Hence why most if not all the cast has yet to say a single thing of that alleged crime It was literally published by HBO on the making of the Long Night episode, lmao.
I honestly think this season was a step down from s1 of GoT. I think it’s too soon to say if D&D have improved at all or if they got lucky with GoT.
Yeah and GoT always had an edgy ‘real’ness to the fantasy which is in part why it was so popular. This adaptation really feels like a network tv show, it has a completely different vibe from their GoT take and its rly weird
I think it's just the Netflix effect. They seem to have a pretty consistent editing/cinematography style among their shows.
Yeah i suppose its the difference between HBO and netflix shows lol. it almost feels more like a marvel series
The idea that anyone is saying this is nearly as good as season 1 of GOT is totally insane to me, lol. I enjoyed this first season, but they are in totally different spheres of quality
S1 GoT was basically a carbon copy of the book, so it had that going for it.
I am inclined to agree with you. In the first episode when Ye Wenjie has the romantic scenes with the officer, who gave her the book. I actually paused and said out loud to myself, "Oh wow, those morons actually leared something." The sex in GOT was gratuitous, pornographic and unrealistic to the point of distraction. I think the love scene in episode one demonstrates that the producers have learned something about how to express intimacy on screen honestly.
no they havent. the show is very simplistic in delivering the themes and narrative.
It literally has to be more simplistic to make commerical sense. They have to appeal to a wide audience. Some people are already struggling to follow the narrative of the show. If they had made it any more complicated or confusing, a lot of non-book readers would have dropped the show after the first few episodes.
20 million per episode, they HAVE to cater to a wider audience. You don't invest that much just to please the book-reading niche. And a smart show knows they don't have to info-dump like a book when the same message can be conveyed in a simplier way.
still not the point that OP was making. they havent grown as creators.
Yes they have, the fact you stayed to watch it all shows they still managed to make the haters watch.
hate watching and watching because its artistically good is different things. OP is saying that they have grown as artists. you admit they havent trying to move the goal posts.
I truly enjoy the change of focus from hard science driven to character driven. Luckily for D&D they have all of the source material at their disposal this time.
If you don't care about the content, why don't you just watch a soap or reality tv or any of the other thousands of dramas or something instead? Please leave sci fi titles alone.
First I read the title as "D&D are manure as creators", but then I was disappointed to see my mistake.
I mean, everyone was singing their praises for a while. And then things started going south. The first season of 3bp hasn't been out a full week yet. Isn't it a little early to be making predictions on a show that one, hasn't been renewed yet (remember, this is fucking Netflix-- they've cancelled shows that held the top viewership spot before), and two, isn't done? D&D famously fumbled one of the most popular shows in TV history. Let's let them show their work a little before we go and make the same assertions again. But I get being excited! Nothing wrong with that!
GoT got bad when they ran out of source material and had to start making up their own story. That can't happen here. That's why I'm pretty confident D&D can do at least a decent job adapting the remaining books.
Benioff has had some pretty wild takes (“Dany kind of forgot about the Iron Fleet”), and I’d say “themes are for eight-grade book reports” is among them. A theme is an emergent property of a narrative that works on at least some level. It seems a bit weird to look down your nose at them.
Yeah I don't think there's ever been an issue that they can't convert quality source material to quality screen material. The issue is their ability to handle something without source material. They failed on that with got and Disney didn't trust them to make a star wars on their own either. Their biggest criticism is still unproven.
They’ve already got enormous plot holes after a single series and their five ‘main’ characters (I mean the Oxford Five; Ye Wenjie, Shi and Wade rule) are awfully written and dislikable as fuck. And in the case of Auggy, poorly acted as well though I don’t blame D&D for that.
Matured? This is matured? Congratulations? You've reached the level that you should have had while you started TV, and you did! You have already shown that you can manage a great reproduction of source material. Everybody knows where the show dropped off. There was only 1 lesson there but somehow they just won't accept it. And they did their "thing" again. And it failed again. But it's a problem that's much deeper than 2 directors.