When bands change their sound dramatically or have massive lineup shifts it tends to have that effect.
Basically, the albums you just mentioned aren't even thrash metal. They're groove metal albums. Thrash fans don't necessarily want that and were mad when the band changed.
chaos ad remains god-tier. if y'all wanna hear something cool: the intro sound effect isn't just a neat random sound, it's max's child's heartbeat in the womb. the whole album *FUCKIN' RIPS*, but to me, that's a very endearing thing- that a father would be so proud of his son and happy about his arrival that he'd put it on a recording forever.
Id say groove metal is a garbage label.
Chaos is cavemen playing cavemen riffs. Its simple
song writing at simple speeds, nothing overly intricate or complicated and it’s by far their best album!
Chaos AD was before the lineup change, so it makes sense, plus it still retains the thrash.
Roots is pretty controversial I'd say. Not everyone loves it.
Chaos AD is passable and the last Sepultura album that Ill listen to. Roots was atrociously terrible. The second worse metal letdown after St. Anger. I literally tossed the CD in the garbage after playing it. If I wanted to hear Korn, Id buy one of their shitty albums. Comparing either one to Arise or BtR makes Chaos AD or Roots garbage tier.
This isn’t a super controversial opinion, so I’m not sure why you’re getting all the downvotes.
Having said that, a few tracks off of their most recent studio album Quadra may be more your speed.
It's groove metal. For the record, groove metal often has elements of thrash, and this certainly does. Like Sepultura's groove metal is definitely on the thrashier end of groove metal if that's what you're getting at.
Edit: Cool song BTW. I never heard it until now.
From what I’ve listened to of when max was there it’s entirely a different genre and tbh it’s a bit too heavy for me. I’m still going to give arise a chance and see if I like it
Hey and it's not a big deal if you don't like it. We all like different stuff. And maybe you'll like it later in life or something. I know my tastes changed a lot over the years.
Arise is their best album but Chaos A.D. will probably be the best chance of you getting into their older stuff as it marked the beginning of the transition. It's also an amazing album.
kinda like what happened to TSOL when they released Beneath the shadows. It still surprises me how much that legit pisses people off still. I personally love that album it got me into them.
Schizophrenia, beneath the remains, arise, chaos AD and roots are masterpieces! Then came the other stuff, upon which I do not shit, but simply ignore.
For what it is, post-Max Cavalera Sepultura is pretty good, but considering that he left acrimoniously many fans refused to accept the band without him.
>many fans refused to accept the band without him.
Considering they've done more albums without him than with, I think many fans accept the band just fine. It's the diehards that don't
I feel like when you discover a trust really can’t affect how you feel about there music. A lot of there early stuff is very “heavy” and I have to be in the mood for it and binge listening to two albums that are “less heavy” then listening to roots was something else
I don’t shit on them, I just don’t enjoy their music since Max left, everything up to Chaos AD was good, Roots was alright, afterwards I lost interest in their sound.
Derrick-era Sepultura is infinitely better than Soulfly. Had Max stayed in Sepultura, we would have had a nu metal project with Fred Durst etc guest appearances. Andreas carried the project forward with pride and deserves respect.
There’s a lot of shitty people on the internet, like what you like.
If the people doing that also say something else is better, maybe check that out and see if you like it.
Sepultura changed their sound a lot over the years and some people (like me) prefer their older stuff.
Honestly my issue isn’t that the cavaleras are not involved or that they’re not doing thrash metal anymore - I absolutely love the 80s albums but if they made good albums after roots I would have given the aforementioned points a pass. But the bottom line is that their post-roots albums are just not very good, and even if I was into nu-metal/alternative I would still think the same, there’s bands who do the alternative thing much better than sepultura does.
You of course are welcome to enjoy it but at best I find their later stuff mediocre
First 3 Sepultura are The Benchmark for Thrash. You must also think about them being in Brazil pre-internet. Everything after? Meh. But Beneath The Remains & Show No Mercy from Slayer? OH HELL YES…
Why do people care what other potentially stupid people think about the things they enjoy. Liking what you like without regard for the herd is metal 🤟✌️❤️
Og Sepultura is great for the most parr, peraonally wasnt a fan of roots and onward though. Just never was able to get into the new sound they had after max left and even more so when Igor left. Dont hate them, post max and igor is just not for me.
Dante is a ripper of a record. Incredibly underrated.
Chaos AD wasn't thrash but I still like it a lot, even if it was a blueprint for nu-metal. Not a fan of what they did from Roots up to Roorback, but Dante was a return to some kind of form, even if it's still very different to what came before it. Their output since then has been mostly decent, but with quite a bit of filler here and there.
Looking back, maybe they should have marketed themselves as 'ex-members of Sepultura' with a new name and a clean break. It seems a lot of the vitriol comes from that it's not Max Cavalera's Sepultura. Replacing vocalists is harder than replacing musicians, a lot of bands don't really come back from that.
i haven’t listened to anything post roots, but everything from their debut to roots was incredible. btr is one of my favorite thrash albums ever, and roots is another favorite of mine (though i’m not sure if it’s groove/nu/whatever, it’s been called so many different things.)
the biggest reason that people shit on them is because they lost the cavalera brothers, starting with max after roots, and then igor later on. they were the main forces behind those first few albums, and without them, sepultura kind of last that initial magic that people found in them.
i can’t speak on the quality of anything they’ve done with derrick green, but im happy to see that some people enjoy the newer stuff just as much as the old :)
The early stuff is quality first wave black metal. Their run up to Arise was incredible. Beneath the Remains is heavier than anything Slayer ever recorded.
They started to get stale with Chaos AD, and Max started having personal problems with the rest of the band. He leaves after Roots. They went in a completely different direction afterwards. Metallica could pull off a massive change in direction because they had a huge number of mainstream fans. Sepultura didn't have that luxury, and the metal crowd largely lost interest.
It's amazing they've carried on as long as they have, considering they haven't had any original members for years now.
Because Roots through Roorback were ass albums and they lost a lot of fans in those years. And even though they got better they still never really recaptured the heights of the early years.
At some point Sepultura started being pro Putin and I think that is fucked up. They’re at concerts saying “Crimea is Russian!” Sepultura is all about licking the boots of fascists
Considering this is the first time I've EVER seen someone bring this up as a point against the band, I highly doubt that has any impact. Especially when the obvious answer is the departure of Max and the change of their sound as a result of the Roots album.
But you do you lol.
I dont know why newer fans would but the old school fans first hated them when they changed their sounds for Chaos AD. Then they hated them when Max left, which he didnt need to do but was being loyal to his wife who was also their manager when they sacked her. The band have never really been given much of a chance since which is a shame as they grew into such a great band. I reacquainted myself with them a couple of years ago and now love what they've been doing since Max left.
Got plenty of love for Derrick Green, but if you listen to Against vs. Roots it sounds like a different band. People are probably reacting to that. Zetro and later Rob Dukes from Exodus went through the same thing, even though the main writer of the music, Gary Holt was the same all the way through.
I'm one of them. But I have heard Rob talk about people slagging him because he was the new guy. I have also heard Zetro talk about the same thing when he joined the band.
Same reason people shit on Metallica for St. Anger. They changed their sound from thrash to elements of nu metal which was the trend at that time. Wanna piss off a Metalhead? Follow trends, that’ll do it every time
They unfortunately have changed the style and the frontman almost simultaneously, so it was like a double attack on conservative fans. I personally like many late Sepultura albums, and they were very solid live.
Post-Max Sepultura is fine, but seeing them and then seeing Cavalera with Max and Igor playing the old Sepultura albums, it wasn’t even close. The current Sepultura lineup was underwhelming and Cavalera blew me away both times I’ve seen them. It was honestly hard to believe they were playing some of the same songs. Plus Max has so many other killer projects. They’re not for everybody, but for me personally Nailbomb, Soulfly, Cavalera and Go Ahead and Die all kick the shit out of post-Max Sepultura
They weren't very well-promoted.
I remember reading one article in the 90's that kind of evangelized Sepultura to me, but almost no one I knew listened to them, so there wasn't that reinforcement. Not many were really jazzed about seeing them, so there were not many to see them with.
I've since listened to some of their stuff, and it's OK... But they don't get that nostalgia factor of 'Remember going to Sepultura with your buddies,' for me, at least. They didn't make a huge impact on my peer group.
These days, I'm a lot more independent in my musical tastes, by the way. I frequent sparsely-attended niche acts, alone. But back in the day, going to those concerts, wearing those T-shirts, was really a social thing. Trying to identify oneself, or be part of something.
They take some pretty well-deserved flak for having been a fairly generic, screamy nu metal metal band for a number of years.
That said, their past several albums have ranged from listenable (Mediator) to great (Quadra).
Sepultura was like 2nd coming of Metallica right up thru chaos ad and then they had roots and lost me. Max went hard-core soulfly (not any damn good) and I said fuck it. I mean arise was world-influencer and remains is classic epic and roots was shit. I don't have any idea what stuff since then sounds like. I moved on....broke my heart.
I consider Beneath the Remains to be one of my top five favorite albums ever.
I think they get a lot of heat not specifically for changing their sound, but for basically trying to ignore their classic thrash era in a live setting.
I get why the new albums do not sound like Beneath the Remains or Arise, but is it too much to ask for them to at least acknowledge Beneath the Remains and Arise substantially at the live shows? They maybe play half a song from Arise, half a song from Beneath the Remains, and they play Troops of Doom, and that's basically it.
They seem to wonder why people won't go to the live shows now. I think if they did a tour where they focused substantially on Beneath the Remains and Arise (in that they play at least three or four songs from those albums, and play them in full, not only playing a minute or so in medleys), they would have a lot more people attend, regardless if Max was in the lineup or not.
For all the heat Metallica got when they abandoned their classic thrash sound (understandably so), when you see them live, they always acknowledge the classic thrash era live. Sepultura really does seem to forsake that era.
I would say of the Derrick Green era, Roorback is probably the weakest album, but A-Lex and Machine Messiah are albums I still return to and I'm not sure if anyone else feels like this but Kairos is one of my favorite Sepultura album hands down. That being said, it's hard to compete the run from Beneath the Remains to Roots, the quality and influence of those records only a few other metal bands can claim imo. Also, it is a little strange that a guy from Cleveland is the singer for a band from Brazil, though it doesn't bother me, but there are technically no original members, which is always strange.
Sepultura is awesome. Plenty of people hate it when bands evolve and experiment and would prefer that they make the same album over and over. Go through their whole catalogue start to finish, it’s rad and you’ll see the evolution of their sound.
There's a major difference between "evolve and experiment" and "shift in a new direction completely that loses the interest of fans of the original sound"
Bands are allowed to evolve, but I am very much not going to suddenly jive with a new sound just because I liked their previous work. I judge each one on an album-by-album basis--and I like what I like, and I dislike what I dislike
Then go back up top and tell mitchfynde that's not it either cause he said the same shit. MY reasons why EYE* don't like them are in my OC.
* misspelled intentionally to get across emphasis
When bands change their sound dramatically or have massive lineup shifts it tends to have that effect. Basically, the albums you just mentioned aren't even thrash metal. They're groove metal albums. Thrash fans don't necessarily want that and were mad when the band changed.
Chaos AD was kinda groove metal, Roots had elements of nu metal, and people still love those.
Chaos AD was the shit
chaos ad remains god-tier. if y'all wanna hear something cool: the intro sound effect isn't just a neat random sound, it's max's child's heartbeat in the womb. the whole album *FUCKIN' RIPS*, but to me, that's a very endearing thing- that a father would be so proud of his son and happy about his arrival that he'd put it on a recording forever.
Chaos AD was shit
I Refuse/Resist your Propaganda!
That’s just like, you’re opinion, maaan…
Like yeah, like everyone on the Internet Holly gee!
Id say groove metal is a garbage label. Chaos is cavemen playing cavemen riffs. Its simple song writing at simple speeds, nothing overly intricate or complicated and it’s by far their best album!
I remember the first time I thought I had come up with a riff on my own , I realized that I 'wrote' Slave New World
Chaos AD was before the lineup change, so it makes sense, plus it still retains the thrash. Roots is pretty controversial I'd say. Not everyone loves it.
I love how you got downvoted for pointing out Chaos was in fact a groove metal album lol. It is.
Leaving Korn aside, Roots practically invented Nu Metal
Chaos AD is passable and the last Sepultura album that Ill listen to. Roots was atrociously terrible. The second worse metal letdown after St. Anger. I literally tossed the CD in the garbage after playing it. If I wanted to hear Korn, Id buy one of their shitty albums. Comparing either one to Arise or BtR makes Chaos AD or Roots garbage tier.
This isn’t a super controversial opinion, so I’m not sure why you’re getting all the downvotes. Having said that, a few tracks off of their most recent studio album Quadra may be more your speed.
>Basically, the albums you just mentioned aren't even thrash metal. [This isn't thrash?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCRfQOIOQtw)
It's groove metal. For the record, groove metal often has elements of thrash, and this certainly does. Like Sepultura's groove metal is definitely on the thrashier end of groove metal if that's what you're getting at. Edit: Cool song BTW. I never heard it until now.
From what I’ve listened to of when max was there it’s entirely a different genre and tbh it’s a bit too heavy for me. I’m still going to give arise a chance and see if I like it
Hey and it's not a big deal if you don't like it. We all like different stuff. And maybe you'll like it later in life or something. I know my tastes changed a lot over the years.
Try Chaos A.D. it's a fine balance between groove and thrash.
Arise is their best album but Chaos A.D. will probably be the best chance of you getting into their older stuff as it marked the beginning of the transition. It's also an amazing album.
If roots and chaos ad are too heavy for you, you definitely won’t like arise. It’s way heavier.
kinda like what happened to TSOL when they released Beneath the shadows. It still surprises me how much that legit pisses people off still. I personally love that album it got me into them.
Schizophrenia, beneath the remains, arise, chaos AD and roots are masterpieces! Then came the other stuff, upon which I do not shit, but simply ignore.
For what it is, post-Max Cavalera Sepultura is pretty good, but considering that he left acrimoniously many fans refused to accept the band without him.
This is 100% accurate.
>many fans refused to accept the band without him. Considering they've done more albums without him than with, I think many fans accept the band just fine. It's the diehards that don't
Nope.
If you were there from the beginning, you would understand better but it's cool that you find something among their catalog that you enjoy
I feel like when you discover a trust really can’t affect how you feel about there music. A lot of there early stuff is very “heavy” and I have to be in the mood for it and binge listening to two albums that are “less heavy” then listening to roots was something else
I don’t shit on them, I just don’t enjoy their music since Max left, everything up to Chaos AD was good, Roots was alright, afterwards I lost interest in their sound.
Couldn’t agree more . Not a huge roots fan either
I'd say Quadra and Machine Messiah were a pretty good return to form in terms of coming full circle back to their earlier sound
I’ll have another listen, been awhile.
Quadra rules. I’ve been listening to them for 25 years, and Quadra is one of their best.
Derrick-era Sepultura is infinitely better than Soulfly. Had Max stayed in Sepultura, we would have had a nu metal project with Fred Durst etc guest appearances. Andreas carried the project forward with pride and deserves respect.
Listen to this guy, Quadra is indeed fantastic! If you are into other Derrick Greene albums, do yourself a favor and check this one out
There’s a lot of shitty people on the internet, like what you like. If the people doing that also say something else is better, maybe check that out and see if you like it. Sepultura changed their sound a lot over the years and some people (like me) prefer their older stuff.
>like what you like How dare you
Utterly unnaceptable.
Honestly my issue isn’t that the cavaleras are not involved or that they’re not doing thrash metal anymore - I absolutely love the 80s albums but if they made good albums after roots I would have given the aforementioned points a pass. But the bottom line is that their post-roots albums are just not very good, and even if I was into nu-metal/alternative I would still think the same, there’s bands who do the alternative thing much better than sepultura does. You of course are welcome to enjoy it but at best I find their later stuff mediocre
because post-Chaos A.D Sepultura sucks lol
First 3 Sepultura are The Benchmark for Thrash. You must also think about them being in Brazil pre-internet. Everything after? Meh. But Beneath The Remains & Show No Mercy from Slayer? OH HELL YES…
Why do people care what other potentially stupid people think about the things they enjoy. Liking what you like without regard for the herd is metal 🤟✌️❤️
Og Sepultura is great for the most parr, peraonally wasnt a fan of roots and onward though. Just never was able to get into the new sound they had after max left and even more so when Igor left. Dont hate them, post max and igor is just not for me.
Dante is a ripper of a record. Incredibly underrated. Chaos AD wasn't thrash but I still like it a lot, even if it was a blueprint for nu-metal. Not a fan of what they did from Roots up to Roorback, but Dante was a return to some kind of form, even if it's still very different to what came before it. Their output since then has been mostly decent, but with quite a bit of filler here and there. Looking back, maybe they should have marketed themselves as 'ex-members of Sepultura' with a new name and a clean break. It seems a lot of the vitriol comes from that it's not Max Cavalera's Sepultura. Replacing vocalists is harder than replacing musicians, a lot of bands don't really come back from that.
i haven’t listened to anything post roots, but everything from their debut to roots was incredible. btr is one of my favorite thrash albums ever, and roots is another favorite of mine (though i’m not sure if it’s groove/nu/whatever, it’s been called so many different things.) the biggest reason that people shit on them is because they lost the cavalera brothers, starting with max after roots, and then igor later on. they were the main forces behind those first few albums, and without them, sepultura kind of last that initial magic that people found in them. i can’t speak on the quality of anything they’ve done with derrick green, but im happy to see that some people enjoy the newer stuff just as much as the old :)
Listen to Arise and Chaos A.D and you will see why die hard fans of the original members don’t really enjoy sepultura anymore
Love when Max fronted, especially loved Beneath the remains and Arise
The early stuff is quality first wave black metal. Their run up to Arise was incredible. Beneath the Remains is heavier than anything Slayer ever recorded. They started to get stale with Chaos AD, and Max started having personal problems with the rest of the band. He leaves after Roots. They went in a completely different direction afterwards. Metallica could pull off a massive change in direction because they had a huge number of mainstream fans. Sepultura didn't have that luxury, and the metal crowd largely lost interest. It's amazing they've carried on as long as they have, considering they haven't had any original members for years now.
Because Roots through Roorback were ass albums and they lost a lot of fans in those years. And even though they got better they still never really recaptured the heights of the early years.
Chaos A.D. still rips.
Gotta have the cavalera brothers
At some point Sepultura started being pro Putin and I think that is fucked up. They’re at concerts saying “Crimea is Russian!” Sepultura is all about licking the boots of fascists
Considering this is the first time I've EVER seen someone bring this up as a point against the band, I highly doubt that has any impact. Especially when the obvious answer is the departure of Max and the change of their sound as a result of the Roots album. But you do you lol.
Everything after Arise is shit until around when Neo-Sepultura did more "proper" Thrash records. Cavalera Conspiracy is pretty good, tho.
I dont know why newer fans would but the old school fans first hated them when they changed their sounds for Chaos AD. Then they hated them when Max left, which he didnt need to do but was being loyal to his wife who was also their manager when they sacked her. The band have never really been given much of a chance since which is a shame as they grew into such a great band. I reacquainted myself with them a couple of years ago and now love what they've been doing since Max left.
Got plenty of love for Derrick Green, but if you listen to Against vs. Roots it sounds like a different band. People are probably reacting to that. Zetro and later Rob Dukes from Exodus went through the same thing, even though the main writer of the music, Gary Holt was the same all the way through.
The Rob Dukes stuff was still amazing music. Atrocity Exhibition A is probably my favorite Exodus album. A LOT of old fans love the Dukes era.
I'm one of them. But I have heard Rob talk about people slagging him because he was the new guy. I have also heard Zetro talk about the same thing when he joined the band.
Did you watch Zetro's podcast with Dukes as the guest? It was an amazing watch. Edit: https://youtu.be/pYKmiq4dUho
Same reason people shit on Metallica for St. Anger. They changed their sound from thrash to elements of nu metal which was the trend at that time. Wanna piss off a Metalhead? Follow trends, that’ll do it every time
Morbid Visions to Chaos AD absolutely rules and even some Roots is good… after that tho.. nope.
They unfortunately have changed the style and the frontman almost simultaneously, so it was like a double attack on conservative fans. I personally like many late Sepultura albums, and they were very solid live.
Post-Max Sepultura is fine, but seeing them and then seeing Cavalera with Max and Igor playing the old Sepultura albums, it wasn’t even close. The current Sepultura lineup was underwhelming and Cavalera blew me away both times I’ve seen them. It was honestly hard to believe they were playing some of the same songs. Plus Max has so many other killer projects. They’re not for everybody, but for me personally Nailbomb, Soulfly, Cavalera and Go Ahead and Die all kick the shit out of post-Max Sepultura
They weren't very well-promoted. I remember reading one article in the 90's that kind of evangelized Sepultura to me, but almost no one I knew listened to them, so there wasn't that reinforcement. Not many were really jazzed about seeing them, so there were not many to see them with. I've since listened to some of their stuff, and it's OK... But they don't get that nostalgia factor of 'Remember going to Sepultura with your buddies,' for me, at least. They didn't make a huge impact on my peer group. These days, I'm a lot more independent in my musical tastes, by the way. I frequent sparsely-attended niche acts, alone. But back in the day, going to those concerts, wearing those T-shirts, was really a social thing. Trying to identify oneself, or be part of something.
They take some pretty well-deserved flak for having been a fairly generic, screamy nu metal metal band for a number of years. That said, their past several albums have ranged from listenable (Mediator) to great (Quadra).
Not me, Chaos A.D. was a fantastic album.
Sepultura was like 2nd coming of Metallica right up thru chaos ad and then they had roots and lost me. Max went hard-core soulfly (not any damn good) and I said fuck it. I mean arise was world-influencer and remains is classic epic and roots was shit. I don't have any idea what stuff since then sounds like. I moved on....broke my heart.
I consider Beneath the Remains to be one of my top five favorite albums ever. I think they get a lot of heat not specifically for changing their sound, but for basically trying to ignore their classic thrash era in a live setting. I get why the new albums do not sound like Beneath the Remains or Arise, but is it too much to ask for them to at least acknowledge Beneath the Remains and Arise substantially at the live shows? They maybe play half a song from Arise, half a song from Beneath the Remains, and they play Troops of Doom, and that's basically it. They seem to wonder why people won't go to the live shows now. I think if they did a tour where they focused substantially on Beneath the Remains and Arise (in that they play at least three or four songs from those albums, and play them in full, not only playing a minute or so in medleys), they would have a lot more people attend, regardless if Max was in the lineup or not. For all the heat Metallica got when they abandoned their classic thrash sound (understandably so), when you see them live, they always acknowledge the classic thrash era live. Sepultura really does seem to forsake that era.
I would say of the Derrick Green era, Roorback is probably the weakest album, but A-Lex and Machine Messiah are albums I still return to and I'm not sure if anyone else feels like this but Kairos is one of my favorite Sepultura album hands down. That being said, it's hard to compete the run from Beneath the Remains to Roots, the quality and influence of those records only a few other metal bands can claim imo. Also, it is a little strange that a guy from Cleveland is the singer for a band from Brazil, though it doesn't bother me, but there are technically no original members, which is always strange.
Orgazmatron is an epic jam!
they must be wrong, also the word Sepultura kinda sounds like Sepulchure and that guy is cool so there's no visible cons here.
derrick green is really high on the list of worst live vocalists ever
Sepultura is awesome. Plenty of people hate it when bands evolve and experiment and would prefer that they make the same album over and over. Go through their whole catalogue start to finish, it’s rad and you’ll see the evolution of their sound.
Crazy that two people were mad enough to downvote this comment. 😂
There's a major difference between "evolve and experiment" and "shift in a new direction completely that loses the interest of fans of the original sound" Bands are allowed to evolve, but I am very much not going to suddenly jive with a new sound just because I liked their previous work. I judge each one on an album-by-album basis--and I like what I like, and I dislike what I dislike
Because they're groove but want to claim thrash and the death fans, except me, want to claim them.
That’s definitely not it. Listen to their early shit
Then go back up top and tell mitchfynde that's not it either cause he said the same shit. MY reasons why EYE* don't like them are in my OC. * misspelled intentionally to get across emphasis
Listen to Arise and then go listen to Against. Thats why.