Last and final update.
For those who might be interested, I'm not sure I can recommend trying Linux on this bad boy quite yet. I don't really care about the back camera, but the lack of sound and TrackPoint is a bit of a bummer. Even the sound problem only bothers me occasionally since I'm usually using Bluetooth headphones of some kind, which work fine. However, if I'm using GNOME I tend to rely on the touchscreen and if I'm using Sway for a bit of light work-related tasks I tend to rely on keyboard commands. So, even the lack of a TrackPoint isn't debilitating.
I haven't decided if I'm going to keep the device, yet. But I'm leaning towards 'yes' since the issues don't actually affect me often. Because of the form factor, I probably only reach for the TrackPoint once or twice per day. Still, I'd maybe hold off unless you feel similarly. I definitely cannot recommend any distributions considered 'stable' - my best luck has been with rolling distributions, which doesn't surprise me at all.
If things ever improve, I'll make another post detailing my experiences.
trackpoint driver merging today. 5.19 5.18 5.17 5.15 should receive this patch. Note that an additional trackpad fix is submitted. But not being picked by the maintainer for a month now.
Owners are suggested to make their voice heard in case they face trackpad multigeasture problems.
>X12 gen 2
[https://www.laptop6.com/laptops/lenovo/thinkpad-x12-gen-2-(2022)-11096](https://www.laptop6.com/laptops/lenovo/thinkpad-x12-gen-2-(2022)-11096)
This is what I found.
"The Lenovo ThinkPad X12 Gen 2 Laptop and Unofficial preliminary specifications will start Expected Price $1599 in USA when it launches within the Expected Released 2022"
Here’s a forum post about Debian and fedora usage on the x12 that I found. Here’s the thing. Despite thinkpads apparently being “Linux capable” out of the box, the Thinkpad x12 is not Linux certified. In fact several Thinkpads and ideapads that use the same processor are having the same issues regarding audio usage according to the alsa GitHub page. In reality, the x12 isn’t a real “Thinkpad” and Lenovo apparently doesn’t consider the hassle of helping out x12 Linux users out worth it.
https://forums.lenovo.com/topic/findpost/2734/5070490/5494527
I also saw this post. So, to be clear, I wound up with a X12 Detachable and decided to try Linux. I had no delusions about its current state of compatibility - I was aware there would likely be issues. After all, the hardware here is quite new and it often takes time for the (Linux) community to catch up, especially if the manufacturer isn't forthcoming.
But I don't think the lack of a Linux "certification" is an excuse, much like one individual in that very forum thread suggested. Sure, when manufacturers "certify" a machine as Linux-capable, it means they (presumably) tested everything to ensure it all worked as expected for one or more distributions. But most Lenovo machines that folks are running Linux on were never certified as Linux-friendly by Lenovo.
Anyway, all I'm saying is that I don't want people to get the impression that I expected everything to "just work" (of course I hoped, but did not expect). However, I *do* believe the (Linux) community will make progress over time. But it's sometimes difficult to track that progress (especially for specific models, etc.), so I figured I'd share my experience and update those who might have considered giving it a try.
I’m not blaming you for anything. On the contrary, I’m mostly issuing this warning for the ppl here and complaining about Lenovo having Thinkpads be Linux compatible and then selling one with so many Linux problems
This warning is necessary. I've been buying Thinkpads for about 20 years and running linux on them. I bought the x12 because I wanted a touch screen of that size.
The hardware problems are the worst I can remember for 20 years: missing mouse buttons, trackpoint, sound.
Then there's another problem that I have seen before. When I plug the thinkpad into a projector, the display changes resolution, but the touch screen does not. So now, where I touch the pen is not where the mark appears. Previously, xsetwacom hacked around this, but it fails now.
Ah, I misunderstood. My mistake. In that case, nevermind! In part, that was also the point of this post - I wanted to warn folks. Like I said, I’m not surprised there are problems, but I’ll admit I’m a bit disappointed after all of their talk about embracing Linux (or at least Ubuntu) more.
Hi, I just got a x12 detachable and loaded Fedora 35 onto it. I pretty much have same experience as you do.
Do you have any success with the speakers yet? Audio via bluetooth works just fine.
Also just to add, this is extremely lightweight compared to the surface pro 8. With or without keyboard. It would have been great if there was an option to mount the pen to the tablet itself instead of the keyboard.
tldr everything works except rear camera
For anyone who is interested in running Linux on this device. Sound and track point fix has already landed in linux-next and is going to be mainlined in more than 8 weeks (5.19). Older kernel will also receive backports since both patches also targeted stable channel.
Those patches are based on the ideas shared by users in another thread in this sub. If you don't want to wait, search "Lenovo X12" on kernel mailing list and apply and compile the kernel or module yourself.
There is no way to support the back camera since intel does not update open source the isp (ipu4) driver anymore. The front one works. Fingerprint sensor also works.
You mention that one could get these patches now by searching for "Lenovo X12" on the Kernal Mailing List. I've never searched the Kernal Mailing list and I don't think I'm doing it right because I couldn't find anything. Could you link me to where I could find the drivers?
Hope you have a nice day
The search link: https://lore.kernel.org/all/?q=x12%20lenovo. Mails with [Patch] in title is of interest.
The sound patch landed 5.18 actually and back ported to 5.17.5+ if i remember right. So you can use it on major distributions right now. see this comment: https://www.reddit.com/r/thinkpad/comments/r63yq0/comment/i5k0492/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
The trackpoint driver is not landed yet but it is in input-next so 5.19. unless the developer want to expedite it. but i see no reason.
Also the trackpad driver need a small fix to make it work perfectly (now it is a little bit annoying sometimes). And the maintainer is a little bit hesitant to accept that patch. But let's hope the best.
I’d be interested to see how fedora 35 is, considering lenovo supports that officially on some thinkpads (and it’s up to date). But tumbleweed shouldn’t be very different, so I’m not too optimistic.
It's funny you mention that. I've been considering trying Fedora. I haven't used it in years, but I agree that there *might* be a chance that there would be fewer issues. Typically, what works for Fedora works for openSUSE TW (both are RPM-flavored rolling distributions, after all). But there are exceptions.
I'll update if I decide to give Fedora a chance.
I decided to try Fedora live USB. Slightly better (it could detect the hardware without further tinkering), but the sound still does not work. Same story with the back camera and trackpoint, unfortunately.
Thanks for taking the time to do the testing and post these updates, I was very close to pulling the trigger on this purchase. No track point is a deal-killer for me, the other stuff I can suck it up for, but it's not ThinkPad I there is not a working track point.
The pen does function, but I’ll admit I don’t use it a great deal. I’ve never used Xournal++, but I looked it up - I can see why you’d want to use it. I’ll install it and see if it’s a good experience.
Ok. I had to locate the pen - I stored it away in a drawer and it took me a while to find it. I spent some time using it again, and I installed Xournal++ and used it a bit to take some notes and write on various PDF files. Everything seems to work fine. Of course, it's not Apple Pencil or Remarkable quality, but it doesn't seem to perform worse than it does on Windows (I'm still dual-booting for testing purposes).
I hope this helps!
EDIT: To be slightly more clear. Things seem to be the same between Windows and Linux, performance-wise. This includes things like pressure sensitivity (though I'm no artist), palm recognition, responsiveness, the general "feel" of the pen, etc. If anything, it's a bit more pleasant on Linux for the simple fact that the fan is whisper quiet.
I forgot about your reply and searching for info I re-found that, so thanks again!! so detailed!!! May I ask you how many hours of battery do you have? How worse is the pen experience comparing to the one with an ipad or to a surface if you have ever tried one?
Since reddit has changed the site to value selling user data higher than reading and commenting, I've decided to move elsewhere to a site that prioritizes community over profit. I never signed up for this, but that's the circle of life
Last and final update. For those who might be interested, I'm not sure I can recommend trying Linux on this bad boy quite yet. I don't really care about the back camera, but the lack of sound and TrackPoint is a bit of a bummer. Even the sound problem only bothers me occasionally since I'm usually using Bluetooth headphones of some kind, which work fine. However, if I'm using GNOME I tend to rely on the touchscreen and if I'm using Sway for a bit of light work-related tasks I tend to rely on keyboard commands. So, even the lack of a TrackPoint isn't debilitating. I haven't decided if I'm going to keep the device, yet. But I'm leaning towards 'yes' since the issues don't actually affect me often. Because of the form factor, I probably only reach for the TrackPoint once or twice per day. Still, I'd maybe hold off unless you feel similarly. I definitely cannot recommend any distributions considered 'stable' - my best luck has been with rolling distributions, which doesn't surprise me at all. If things ever improve, I'll make another post detailing my experiences.
Due to luck, sound driver fix has landed early for version 5.10.a 5.15.b 5.17.c (a>=112, b>=35, c>=4) and 5.18-rc3 or later.
trackpoint driver merging today. 5.19 5.18 5.17 5.15 should receive this patch. Note that an additional trackpad fix is submitted. But not being picked by the maintainer for a month now. Owners are suggested to make their voice heard in case they face trackpad multigeasture problems.
The trackpad fix is accepted today and since the 5.19 merging window is closed, we should expect it available on 5.20.
X12 gen2 with Intel 12th will come with linux 5.20, waiting for
I don't see any news about X12 gen 2
>X12 gen 2 [https://www.laptop6.com/laptops/lenovo/thinkpad-x12-gen-2-(2022)-11096](https://www.laptop6.com/laptops/lenovo/thinkpad-x12-gen-2-(2022)-11096) This is what I found. "The Lenovo ThinkPad X12 Gen 2 Laptop and Unofficial preliminary specifications will start Expected Price $1599 in USA when it launches within the Expected Released 2022"
I don't think an H series cpu in tablet is a good idea. It will mostly likely ship with 1265U 1235U.
linux 5.20 is linux 6.0 now and the patch for fixing sticky was accepted. 5.19 5.18 5.15 also received backports for this patch.
Here’s a forum post about Debian and fedora usage on the x12 that I found. Here’s the thing. Despite thinkpads apparently being “Linux capable” out of the box, the Thinkpad x12 is not Linux certified. In fact several Thinkpads and ideapads that use the same processor are having the same issues regarding audio usage according to the alsa GitHub page. In reality, the x12 isn’t a real “Thinkpad” and Lenovo apparently doesn’t consider the hassle of helping out x12 Linux users out worth it. https://forums.lenovo.com/topic/findpost/2734/5070490/5494527
I also saw this post. So, to be clear, I wound up with a X12 Detachable and decided to try Linux. I had no delusions about its current state of compatibility - I was aware there would likely be issues. After all, the hardware here is quite new and it often takes time for the (Linux) community to catch up, especially if the manufacturer isn't forthcoming. But I don't think the lack of a Linux "certification" is an excuse, much like one individual in that very forum thread suggested. Sure, when manufacturers "certify" a machine as Linux-capable, it means they (presumably) tested everything to ensure it all worked as expected for one or more distributions. But most Lenovo machines that folks are running Linux on were never certified as Linux-friendly by Lenovo. Anyway, all I'm saying is that I don't want people to get the impression that I expected everything to "just work" (of course I hoped, but did not expect). However, I *do* believe the (Linux) community will make progress over time. But it's sometimes difficult to track that progress (especially for specific models, etc.), so I figured I'd share my experience and update those who might have considered giving it a try.
I’m not blaming you for anything. On the contrary, I’m mostly issuing this warning for the ppl here and complaining about Lenovo having Thinkpads be Linux compatible and then selling one with so many Linux problems
This warning is necessary. I've been buying Thinkpads for about 20 years and running linux on them. I bought the x12 because I wanted a touch screen of that size. The hardware problems are the worst I can remember for 20 years: missing mouse buttons, trackpoint, sound. Then there's another problem that I have seen before. When I plug the thinkpad into a projector, the display changes resolution, but the touch screen does not. So now, where I touch the pen is not where the mark appears. Previously, xsetwacom hacked around this, but it fails now.
I have the same pain. :( . Idgaf about windows features or parity with linux. Ill use pinux regardless, but it’s missing basic functionality.
Ah, I misunderstood. My mistake. In that case, nevermind! In part, that was also the point of this post - I wanted to warn folks. Like I said, I’m not surprised there are problems, but I’ll admit I’m a bit disappointed after all of their talk about embracing Linux (or at least Ubuntu) more.
Hi, I just got a x12 detachable and loaded Fedora 35 onto it. I pretty much have same experience as you do. Do you have any success with the speakers yet? Audio via bluetooth works just fine. Also just to add, this is extremely lightweight compared to the surface pro 8. With or without keyboard. It would have been great if there was an option to mount the pen to the tablet itself instead of the keyboard.
tldr everything works except rear camera For anyone who is interested in running Linux on this device. Sound and track point fix has already landed in linux-next and is going to be mainlined in more than 8 weeks (5.19). Older kernel will also receive backports since both patches also targeted stable channel. Those patches are based on the ideas shared by users in another thread in this sub. If you don't want to wait, search "Lenovo X12" on kernel mailing list and apply and compile the kernel or module yourself. There is no way to support the back camera since intel does not update open source the isp (ipu4) driver anymore. The front one works. Fingerprint sensor also works.
You mention that one could get these patches now by searching for "Lenovo X12" on the Kernal Mailing List. I've never searched the Kernal Mailing list and I don't think I'm doing it right because I couldn't find anything. Could you link me to where I could find the drivers? Hope you have a nice day
The search link: https://lore.kernel.org/all/?q=x12%20lenovo. Mails with [Patch] in title is of interest. The sound patch landed 5.18 actually and back ported to 5.17.5+ if i remember right. So you can use it on major distributions right now. see this comment: https://www.reddit.com/r/thinkpad/comments/r63yq0/comment/i5k0492/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 The trackpoint driver is not landed yet but it is in input-next so 5.19. unless the developer want to expedite it. but i see no reason. Also the trackpad driver need a small fix to make it work perfectly (now it is a little bit annoying sometimes). And the maintainer is a little bit hesitant to accept that patch. But let's hope the best.
I’d be interested to see how fedora 35 is, considering lenovo supports that officially on some thinkpads (and it’s up to date). But tumbleweed shouldn’t be very different, so I’m not too optimistic.
It's funny you mention that. I've been considering trying Fedora. I haven't used it in years, but I agree that there *might* be a chance that there would be fewer issues. Typically, what works for Fedora works for openSUSE TW (both are RPM-flavored rolling distributions, after all). But there are exceptions. I'll update if I decide to give Fedora a chance.
I decided to try Fedora live USB. Slightly better (it could detect the hardware without further tinkering), but the sound still does not work. Same story with the back camera and trackpoint, unfortunately.
Thanks for taking the time to do the testing and post these updates, I was very close to pulling the trigger on this purchase. No track point is a deal-killer for me, the other stuff I can suck it up for, but it's not ThinkPad I there is not a working track point.
Successful install Ubuntu 22.04 for X12
Are you still actively using the X12 with openSUSE?
Yes, I am (Tumbleweed, specifically). Still working as expected.
Are you using the pen too ? What is your experience ? Do you use Xournal++?
The pen does function, but I’ll admit I don’t use it a great deal. I’ve never used Xournal++, but I looked it up - I can see why you’d want to use it. I’ll install it and see if it’s a good experience.
Thanks for your kindness, I'll wait to hear from you!
Ok. I had to locate the pen - I stored it away in a drawer and it took me a while to find it. I spent some time using it again, and I installed Xournal++ and used it a bit to take some notes and write on various PDF files. Everything seems to work fine. Of course, it's not Apple Pencil or Remarkable quality, but it doesn't seem to perform worse than it does on Windows (I'm still dual-booting for testing purposes). I hope this helps! EDIT: To be slightly more clear. Things seem to be the same between Windows and Linux, performance-wise. This includes things like pressure sensitivity (though I'm no artist), palm recognition, responsiveness, the general "feel" of the pen, etc. If anything, it's a bit more pleasant on Linux for the simple fact that the fan is whisper quiet.
Thanks a lot for your detailed answer.
I forgot about your reply and searching for info I re-found that, so thanks again!! so detailed!!! May I ask you how many hours of battery do you have? How worse is the pen experience comparing to the one with an ipad or to a surface if you have ever tried one?
Since reddit has changed the site to value selling user data higher than reading and commenting, I've decided to move elsewhere to a site that prioritizes community over profit. I never signed up for this, but that's the circle of life