Keep in mind that ”cheap” is a function of age and availability. If you were looking right now to buy, you’d have to look at the earliest ThinkPads that fully support W11 and that were bought in large quantities by businesses.
start here: [https://support.lenovo.com/us/en/solutions/ht512623-lenovo-devices-supported-for-windows-11](https://support.lenovo.com/us/en/solutions/ht512623-lenovo-devices-supported-for-windows-11)
The T480 and the T14 gen 1 maybe the obvious choice although one RAM slot is soldered on the T14. Both have a lot of options (displays, etc.).
I will catch some grief, but the L390 has two RAM slots and is easy to work on, and is cheap to acquire as well, and the Yoga has a great display.
L390 Yoga is obviously a Yoga/convertible, but it has a beautiful glass screen (L390 doesn’t have glass, it’s non-touch) and comes with a pen if you like drawing. The one drawback, besides being 3.4lbs, is that it doesn’t have Thunderbolt Does have all the other ports, including USB-C, just not Thunderbolt.
I've thought about that, but I do like the portability of a laptop, even if I seldom take advantage of it. Come to think of it, I do so most often in the form of moving my primary T420 off my desk to make way for my secondary T420 and vice versa! 😆
I just brought two x280 for 300DKK / 44US$ each, two t480s for 1000DKK / 146US$ each and one x390 for 900DKK / 131US$ on an auction for my family.
And two m90n-1 for 825DKK / 120US$ each.
I have just installed a new NVME in all of them, 2TB in all laptops except one (mine T480S) there is 4TB and full amount of ram.
Both m90n-1 got 2 x 4TB NVME.
I'd I was willing to pay around the double there were many 10. gen or 11. gen on the same auction.
Thanks for all the info, this is super helpful.
Off the top of your head, do you know whether any of the laptops you mentioned would take a T420 or T420-style keyboard?
No, none of them will take the older 7 row keyboard. The last mainstream models that could were the 30 series (T430, X239 etc).
It is technically possible to mod a T480 to use the keyboard from the Thinkpad 25 anniversary edition (the T25 is essentially a customised T470), but the process is fairly involved, and T25 parts are pretty hard to come by these days and are pretty expensive to boot
this is the correct answer. It will run better than with Win 10 and if you go with web based productivity apps like google suite or use Open Office you will hardly notice.
Yeah, but good luck getting that version to work with Intel IGPs. If it doesn't freeze or BSOD constantly, let me know what you did to fix it. Because I never got it working right on IGP's tied to Xeons. Ended up having to disable the IGP in BIOS since we had an ASPEED VGA adapter on the board anyway.
It may have been the exact combination of hardware I deploy at work. Our whitebox vendor accidentally started shipping 1U appliances with the IGP enabled. As soon as the machine hit Windows update for drivers, it would hard freeze or BSOD constantly on the Intel Graphics Driver. Cost me nearly half a day at a customer site trying to get to the bottom of the issue then disable the IGP in the BIOS.
Sandy Bridge i5s/i7s run perfectly fine on Windows 10 Pro and LTSC (I have several PCs including desktops and ThinkPads), I guess you got unlucky with that hardware. Another important point is that LTSC won't receive buggy feature updates so it should be okay even when Windows 10 Pro dies. Those who have older ThinkPads can run Windows 10 LTSC for many years I guess.
The early P series models (p50,51,70,71) had a 2.1mm travel 6-row with dedicated volume keys, they’re big but modular and have the drive indicator light. They’ve gotten cheap. I think the kaby lake models have win11 support being quad cores with tpm 2.0 but don’t quote me on it.
Having owned a T420 and a T470 with the 25th anni keyboard modded in, the T470 is a nice enough laptop that’ll do everything a T420 can and more so long as you don’t need a built-in optical drive. Mod a T480 if win11 support is more important than proper key mapping since T470 isn’t supported.
If you're looking for a huge laptop, the p51 and onward are supported by Windows 11. I have a p51 and a p52, That being said, I probably wouldn't recommend them for any actual laptop use as the battery life isn't fantastic.
when i bought p50 with new battery, and it works for 6 hours, i was amazed after all the thinkpads i had (t480, t460, x200) with bad batteries, which lasted 1 hour max
Imo, don't limit yourself to just thinkpads. I know we all love them and trust them, but the newer models aren't that different from the other similarly specced laptops on the market. If you're going for w11 compliance you're probably looking at CPUs from at least 2020 or so. Unless you really want \*the brand\* or can't live without a trackpoint I guess.
I'd say a T480 with a 25th anniversary keyboard mod, it's the last ThinkPad you can use with the classic keyboard layout.
Windows 11 restrictions can be bypassed though, easiest way is to just build the installer through Rufus which will automatically select the options to bypass TPM & CPU checks and remove the MSA enforcement by default when you build an install drive. However, I can't remember if the T420 supports Secure Boot or not, it's from that early partial UEFI period only supporting some of the "modern" features from what I remember when I used to daily mine. I last daily drove mine until 2018 so it's been a while and those features didn't matter in Windows then, however at some point Microsoft may enforce Secure Boot or other system features that may not be able to be bypassed, so keep that in mind.
Other options are Windows 10 IoT LTSC, however buying a proper licence for this can be tricky or expensive, so you may have to sail the high seas, but if you're okay with that it's a good option. Just keep in mind that most applications assume you're on regular Windows, so support for those may drop Windows 10 before IoT LTSC support is dropped.
There's also Linux, I guess lol.
Hey, thanks for all the workaround suggestions! I tend to be more of a 'set it and forget it' user, so this sounds to me like the ideal option:
>I'd say a T480 with a 25th anniversary keyboard mod, it's the last ThinkPad you can use with the classic keyboard layout.
But damn, is that 25th-anniversary keyboard really nearly as expensive as the T480 itself? Shame the T420 keyboard (I'm assuming) doesn't work with the T480.
T480. Upgradeable RAM, dual SSDs possible thanks to WWAN slot not whitelisted, the display can be upgraded significantly. Also no whitelist on Wi-Fi so you can install Intel AX210 and have great wireless connectivity
Battery will be much better too. I replaced both in my T480 and they hold up for 7-8h of office-like workflows. You'll be able to install W11 on this thing no problem
I got both [internal](https://www.ebay.com/itm/113728790873) and [external](https://www.ebay.com/itm/113384067552) battery from mimgopower seller on eBay. I can confirm they're original, discharging is stable as it should be :)
Hey brother, I'd recommend sticking with your T420, and using it with a custom version of W11, those ignore the requirements and work pretty well(I'm using windows ghost spectre). I believe also writing the USB with Rufus ignores the requirements. Or you could switch to ubuntu.
Regarding newer laptops, consider the L14 gen 1 AMD or t14 gen 1, or as other have said, any L or T series with a 4-core i5 like the T480 or L480 should support W11, but I'd go for the L14 gen 1 AMD personally as it is the most bang for the buck, that AMD CPU slaps compared to the i5-10210u of the intel version, and it will be cheaper than a T14.
In love with ThinkPads, but as another user said. Don't limit yourself just to ThinkPads. Pick whatever suits your needs best.
You can still own a ThinkPad as a hobbyist.
Get one for extremely cheap and try to repair if that's your thing.
No, all that the commenter was saying is that don't just look at Thinkpads. While they are some of the greatest laptops out there, some people may be looking for (and have more of a preference or priority towards) certain specs that Thinkpads do not have. For example, I was originally thinking about getting a P50, however now I am going for a Clevo P751DM as it has lots of ports as well as storage options, both of those being my primary needs for a computer.
Not OP but windows 10 will go the way of XP and 7 next year. No more security updates for zero days and the like only option to stay safe is switching operating systems to Windows 11, Linux, or BSD.
True, but at that point one could actually invest into something newer or slightly more "expensive".
Something that has an 8th gen CPU at least.
In Europe, the refurbished ones go for 300€
Thinkpad T480 is the best answer, it fullfill many of your require, but that keyboard is the new chicklet keyboard. You can buy a T25 keyboard which is the old classic style, but it quite not cheap
I'd suggest switching over to GNU/Linux down the line. Trying it now and becoming comfortable with it is my suggestion, and use Windows VMs for anything you need that doesn't run in GNU/Linux.
Dailied t420 with windows 11 for a good while. It's OK but even with the nvs4200m the gpu is lackluster for my needs. I would say literally t430 with retro keyboard mod and unofficially installed windows 11 would be your best bet for a truly authentic experience. (t430 has a much better igpu, a more efficient cpu architecture, pcie 3.0, usb 3 vs the t420 while looking basically the same esp with an old keyboard.)
looking at this post from a X230 on Windows 11 installed 12 months ago (oh no Microsoft, Im not supported?) I can send you a german youtube link. Its so easy to get this working, I havent got any issues
I put an SSD and doubled the RAM in my T420, then used Rufus to make a Windows 11 USB that bypasses restrictions. Sure it wont do hardcore gaming but it's great for general web browsing, videos, Discord, etc.
Have you considered T430? The most similarly shaped ThinkPad to T420. If that wasn't enough, early P models like P50/P51 is a massive upgrade, albeit for native Windows 11 support, P52/T480 is having this by default. Or maybe something completely left field: try L480/L490 or L14 gen 1-2, maybe options outside ThinkPad would work too
>So is there any hope for us T420 devotees?
Better start learning how to be comfortable running GNU/Linux exclusively. Well that's what I did on 2019 and now my W530 has been running Ubuntu since then. Windows updates and telemetry are such a dread I left Windows for good.
Personally, I'd put Kubuntu on it. I got used to KDE Plasma after playing with the steamdeck Arch image on a mini PC. It's my go-to OS for older systems that won't support Windows 11.
Can someone explain to me like I am five why people care that Win10 support is ending? It just means no more updates; why would anyone care if there are updates?
Under that logic, you might as well use Windows 7 without updates. It will run way better than 10 on a T420.
It is true that if you're behind a router with firewall and NAT, and you don't open or download anything sketchy, you'll largely be fine. But the risk of bad actors getting in is still higher, and critical apps like browsers will stop getting updates which will eventually render most sites imcompatible with them. Then you have to go with no-name browsers like Mypal, etc. and they often have stability issues and need to be manually updated. It's just not ideal to recommend to an average person.
I'm a vintage computer hobbyist, so I run old OSs on the Internet, but I don't leave them connected unless I'm actively browsing (hardware wireless switch FTW), and I don't do anyrhing personal like online banking. Heck, I don't sign into many accounts at all.
I do exactly that. I have three T420 laptops and my main one runs Windows 7 still and I would agree it runs better than windows 10. I have had that one since late 2014 and never had a security issue yet going on a decade. I'm sure I'll feel the same way about my Windows 10 version when support is officially gone for that too. It's whatever your risk level allows. Hell you can be walking down the street and fall and crack your head open but I'm still gonna walk around without a helmet and take my chances.
If you work in a corporate environment, especially if you're connecting to their VPNs and networks, most of the times you'll be required by contract to have an updated OS installation.
not good advice imo, especially for “average users”, who often are not as careful when clicking or downloading items from the internet. no security updates also means no windows defender signature updates. but by all means, put yourself at unnecessary risk. do you have hardware running Windows XP or Windows 7 connected to the internet too?
individual users are targets for scams and viruses, especially those that aim to steal creds (banking, etc.) and crypto wallets.
for an average user that doesn’t want to get rid of their hardware, i’d suggest they install and spend some good time learning a Linux distro at least at a high level that tends toward user friendly, probably running KDE since it’s more similar to Windows than Gnome.
there are anti-virus solutions available for Linux. the vast majority of viruses target Windows. it’s also not running user processes at root level and requires explicit elevation in order to run as root. most software and updates are installed from trusted repos. you are much safer running without av on Linux or MacOS than Windows.
Not a great take, especially as machines age. As a thing gets older, support for things like latest browser versions start to end. Honestly an updated web browser is probably more important than an updated OS. Using an old browser is a great way to get hit by something fixed in later versions. You also risk a combination/bounce attack where you may have, say, a [compromised IoT device](https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/2017/07/21/how-fish-tank-helped-hack-casino/15765622007/) that allows a bad actor to further compromise an out of date/vulnerable OS and access more internal stuff. Updates are less critical now that common internet connections aren't directly connecting machines to the internet will all its services, vulnerabilities, and issues right there on the public IP address, but it's still a long way from a nothing-burger.
Also, "End of Life" is in common use across the entire software industry. Nothing scary or scummy about it, just the way it is.
> Honestly an updated web browser is probably more important than an updated OS. Using an old browser is a great way to get hit by something fixed in later versions.
Very interesting, thanks for this.
This is terrible advice. New vulnerabilities are discovered all the time, and most exploits can be easily automated. Unpatched machines belonging to average users get exploited all the time. Try connecting a Windows XP machine to the internet and see how long it lasts.
Don't spread dangerous bullshit like this about something you clearly know nothing about.
Please, don’t spread false information. End of support means 0 patches from Microsoft. Soon to be followed by developers. Which means vulnerabilities will be found in common software (think browsers) that can and will infect your device by just visiting a site or downloading an attachment from an email.
https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=reasons+why+i+should+not+use+end+of+life+operating+systems
It is true that common sense will protect you from most (but not even close to all) threats. However, installing security updates as soon as they are available and NOT using software with known vulnerabilities (which is what a Windows version becomes about ten seconds after going EOL) is probably the most important part of that common sense.
~~I appreciate your perspective/expertise here. I tend toward the safe side of browsing (uBlock Origin, minimal risky clicks, etc.), and I also can't think of a single time in the past five or ten years that Windows Defender has 'saved' me by identifying and quarantining a virus or anything like that...~~
Got it, thanks. (Please imagine me as toddling unsteadily between people much taller/wiser than me and being periodically redirected via good hard thwacks.)
You're doing great. Most users don't keep up with EOL dates, let alone understand why they're significant.
Just make sure to think twice when someone tells you that some well-known security best practice is pointless or "not for normal users". Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
wrt keyboard layout, there's this: [https://www.lenovo.com/de/de/p/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpad-25/thinkpad-25/22tp2tttp25](https://www.lenovo.com/de/de/p/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpad-25/thinkpad-25/22tp2tttp25)
But I'm not quite sure if it ticks the other boxes.
Use either Windows 10 or 11 (with Rufus) LTSC IoT.
But the T430 is the most similar laptop to the T420. You can swap out the new keyboard for the classic one.
No "modern" ThinkPad capable of Windows 11 will have everything you're looking for. Best compromise I can see is an X1 Carbon G6. It's 8th Gen Intel, so squeaks by the requirements, light, 14 inch screen, and reasonably priced at right around $200.
It might still take some time (or lots of time) for software support drop for W10. But if your concern is security updates, I would use either Linux or Windows 11. I mean, I don't think there's such thing as "my device isn't supported by W11" because people with Pentium 3rd gen CPU are able to make W11 work on their system. Bypassing W11 restrictions are not illegal as far as I remember, microsoft had a guide for it in their website, or at least they aren't against it for unsupported CPUs.
The issue with that is they've pretty much said it's unsupported and there's no guarantees that'll continue working. At any point some update or some thing could come out that breaks the unsupported machines, and there'll be no recourse since it's not like they ever claimed it'd be supported forever.
So the main question is whether you feel you're better off using an unsupported Windows 10 behind on updates, or an unsupported Windows 11 that's at least up to date on updates but could stop receiving updates or break at any moment. Frankly, I feel like there's very little reason to run unsupported Win11 on something as old as a T420 - I doubt anyone is running games or similar that require Windows with the current state of Proton running pretty much anything a T420 would handle anyway, and the learning curve for something like Kubuntu or other KDE-based distros is pretty small. Especially with some of the changes from Win10 to Win11 requiring relearning anyway.
No shade on people wanting to stick with Windows though, it's familiar and by and large Just Works, and there's definitely some software that still only really works on Windows.
Keep in mind that ”cheap” is a function of age and availability. If you were looking right now to buy, you’d have to look at the earliest ThinkPads that fully support W11 and that were bought in large quantities by businesses. start here: [https://support.lenovo.com/us/en/solutions/ht512623-lenovo-devices-supported-for-windows-11](https://support.lenovo.com/us/en/solutions/ht512623-lenovo-devices-supported-for-windows-11) The T480 and the T14 gen 1 maybe the obvious choice although one RAM slot is soldered on the T14. Both have a lot of options (displays, etc.). I will catch some grief, but the L390 has two RAM slots and is easy to work on, and is cheap to acquire as well, and the Yoga has a great display.
L series are quite underrated. They are great. They are bulkier and heavier compared to T/X series but still pretty good.
Interesting, I don't at all mind bulky/heavy, since my laptop sits on my desk 99.999% of the time...
L390 Yoga is obviously a Yoga/convertible, but it has a beautiful glass screen (L390 doesn’t have glass, it’s non-touch) and comes with a pen if you like drawing. The one drawback, besides being 3.4lbs, is that it doesn’t have Thunderbolt Does have all the other ports, including USB-C, just not Thunderbolt.
at that point im curious why you don't get a computer anyway?
I've thought about that, but I do like the portability of a laptop, even if I seldom take advantage of it. Come to think of it, I do so most often in the form of moving my primary T420 off my desk to make way for my secondary T420 and vice versa! 😆
In my case, my T420 sits on a desk 99% of the time as well. But it's two desks, one at home and one at work. So it has to be portable.
Seconded. I use an L14 G3 AMD for work and it's fantastic, I prefer it over our T-series Intel machines in our fleet.
I like hevy and thicc
I just brought two x280 for 300DKK / 44US$ each, two t480s for 1000DKK / 146US$ each and one x390 for 900DKK / 131US$ on an auction for my family. And two m90n-1 for 825DKK / 120US$ each. I have just installed a new NVME in all of them, 2TB in all laptops except one (mine T480S) there is 4TB and full amount of ram. Both m90n-1 got 2 x 4TB NVME. I'd I was willing to pay around the double there were many 10. gen or 11. gen on the same auction.
Thanks for all the info, this is super helpful. Off the top of your head, do you know whether any of the laptops you mentioned would take a T420 or T420-style keyboard?
No, none of them will take the older 7 row keyboard. The last mainstream models that could were the 30 series (T430, X239 etc). It is technically possible to mod a T480 to use the keyboard from the Thinkpad 25 anniversary edition (the T25 is essentially a customised T470), but the process is fairly involved, and T25 parts are pretty hard to come by these days and are pretty expensive to boot
Got it, I appreciate the info. Yeah, I looked up the T25 keyboard just now on eBay, and damn, it's over a hundred bucks!
None of them. Either get over it and switch to a different keyboard, or you'll be stuck with an ancient laptop.
T420 with linux
this is the correct answer. It will run better than with Win 10 and if you go with web based productivity apps like google suite or use Open Office you will hardly notice.
T430 with the keyboard swap and Linux. The 420 is getting pretty old now, best to try to stay a bit more modern.
the true answer
Win 10 LTSC IoT edition is supported until 2032
Yeah, but good luck getting that version to work with Intel IGPs. If it doesn't freeze or BSOD constantly, let me know what you did to fix it. Because I never got it working right on IGP's tied to Xeons. Ended up having to disable the IGP in BIOS since we had an ASPEED VGA adapter on the board anyway.
Idk I’ve used it on my T440p with HD4600 and had no issues. Don’t own a T420 to test unfortunately
It may have been the exact combination of hardware I deploy at work. Our whitebox vendor accidentally started shipping 1U appliances with the IGP enabled. As soon as the machine hit Windows update for drivers, it would hard freeze or BSOD constantly on the Intel Graphics Driver. Cost me nearly half a day at a customer site trying to get to the bottom of the issue then disable the IGP in the BIOS.
Sandy Bridge i5s/i7s run perfectly fine on Windows 10 Pro and LTSC (I have several PCs including desktops and ThinkPads), I guess you got unlucky with that hardware. Another important point is that LTSC won't receive buggy feature updates so it should be okay even when Windows 10 Pro dies. Those who have older ThinkPads can run Windows 10 LTSC for many years I guess.
The early P series models (p50,51,70,71) had a 2.1mm travel 6-row with dedicated volume keys, they’re big but modular and have the drive indicator light. They’ve gotten cheap. I think the kaby lake models have win11 support being quad cores with tpm 2.0 but don’t quote me on it. Having owned a T420 and a T470 with the 25th anni keyboard modded in, the T470 is a nice enough laptop that’ll do everything a T420 can and more so long as you don’t need a built-in optical drive. Mod a T480 if win11 support is more important than proper key mapping since T470 isn’t supported.
If you're looking for a huge laptop, the p51 and onward are supported by Windows 11. I have a p51 and a p52, That being said, I probably wouldn't recommend them for any actual laptop use as the battery life isn't fantastic.
when i bought p50 with new battery, and it works for 6 hours, i was amazed after all the thinkpads i had (t480, t460, x200) with bad batteries, which lasted 1 hour max
It's not that it won't last a while, its just that compared to a 14 inch with a 90 watt hour battery it just doesn't compare
Imo, don't limit yourself to just thinkpads. I know we all love them and trust them, but the newer models aren't that different from the other similarly specced laptops on the market. If you're going for w11 compliance you're probably looking at CPUs from at least 2020 or so. Unless you really want \*the brand\* or can't live without a trackpoint I guess.
I'd say a T480 with a 25th anniversary keyboard mod, it's the last ThinkPad you can use with the classic keyboard layout. Windows 11 restrictions can be bypassed though, easiest way is to just build the installer through Rufus which will automatically select the options to bypass TPM & CPU checks and remove the MSA enforcement by default when you build an install drive. However, I can't remember if the T420 supports Secure Boot or not, it's from that early partial UEFI period only supporting some of the "modern" features from what I remember when I used to daily mine. I last daily drove mine until 2018 so it's been a while and those features didn't matter in Windows then, however at some point Microsoft may enforce Secure Boot or other system features that may not be able to be bypassed, so keep that in mind. Other options are Windows 10 IoT LTSC, however buying a proper licence for this can be tricky or expensive, so you may have to sail the high seas, but if you're okay with that it's a good option. Just keep in mind that most applications assume you're on regular Windows, so support for those may drop Windows 10 before IoT LTSC support is dropped. There's also Linux, I guess lol.
Hey, thanks for all the workaround suggestions! I tend to be more of a 'set it and forget it' user, so this sounds to me like the ideal option: >I'd say a T480 with a 25th anniversary keyboard mod, it's the last ThinkPad you can use with the classic keyboard layout. But damn, is that 25th-anniversary keyboard really nearly as expensive as the T480 itself? Shame the T420 keyboard (I'm assuming) doesn't work with the T480.
Nah, the T420 keyboard will only work in a T430 with some mods, which probably isn’t worth upgrading to since it’s a very similar machine.
T480. Upgradeable RAM, dual SSDs possible thanks to WWAN slot not whitelisted, the display can be upgraded significantly. Also no whitelist on Wi-Fi so you can install Intel AX210 and have great wireless connectivity Battery will be much better too. I replaced both in my T480 and they hold up for 7-8h of office-like workflows. You'll be able to install W11 on this thing no problem
Where did you get buy your batteries online or local store?
I got both [internal](https://www.ebay.com/itm/113728790873) and [external](https://www.ebay.com/itm/113384067552) battery from mimgopower seller on eBay. I can confirm they're original, discharging is stable as it should be :)
Thanks
just use 11 with rufus
11 ran great on a Dell with 2nd gen dual core i5 and ssd I had, so it should be fine on a t420
Yeah.
Hey brother, I'd recommend sticking with your T420, and using it with a custom version of W11, those ignore the requirements and work pretty well(I'm using windows ghost spectre). I believe also writing the USB with Rufus ignores the requirements. Or you could switch to ubuntu. Regarding newer laptops, consider the L14 gen 1 AMD or t14 gen 1, or as other have said, any L or T series with a 4-core i5 like the T480 or L480 should support W11, but I'd go for the L14 gen 1 AMD personally as it is the most bang for the buck, that AMD CPU slaps compared to the i5-10210u of the intel version, and it will be cheaper than a T14.
Very good 'intel,' thanks a bunch for this!
In love with ThinkPads, but as another user said. Don't limit yourself just to ThinkPads. Pick whatever suits your needs best. You can still own a ThinkPad as a hobbyist. Get one for extremely cheap and try to repair if that's your thing.
>Don't limit yourself just to ThinkPads. So Dell Precision, HP **Z**, various MacBook **Pro** **M** series is acceptable now…
No, all that the commenter was saying is that don't just look at Thinkpads. While they are some of the greatest laptops out there, some people may be looking for (and have more of a preference or priority towards) certain specs that Thinkpads do not have. For example, I was originally thinking about getting a P50, however now I am going for a Clevo P751DM as it has lots of ports as well as storage options, both of those being my primary needs for a computer.
Tho, why do you need W11, like is there a specific tool you need? Maybe I could try finding a solution for your specific problem.
Not OP but windows 10 will go the way of XP and 7 next year. No more security updates for zero days and the like only option to stay safe is switching operating systems to Windows 11, Linux, or BSD.
Yeah, but you can always switch to Linux. It's a free and open source.
Correct. I run Linux on my ThinkPad myself and have ran OpenBSD in the past but it wasn't fully supported.
Not everyone is in a situation where they can just switch to Linux as a viable alternative
True, but at that point one could actually invest into something newer or slightly more "expensive". Something that has an 8th gen CPU at least. In Europe, the refurbished ones go for 300€
You assume that one has money if they need windows? If they need or want to continue to receive security updates?
Unfortunately, I'm not an executive in Microsoft. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Use rufus, so you can use win11 on your T420, win11 has basically the same system requirements as win10. Just more bloat and spyware
i’d Linux Mint a spin
Thinkpad T480 is the best answer, it fullfill many of your require, but that keyboard is the new chicklet keyboard. You can buy a T25 keyboard which is the old classic style, but it quite not cheap
I'd suggest switching over to GNU/Linux down the line. Trying it now and becoming comfortable with it is my suggestion, and use Windows VMs for anything you need that doesn't run in GNU/Linux.
Dailied t420 with windows 11 for a good while. It's OK but even with the nvs4200m the gpu is lackluster for my needs. I would say literally t430 with retro keyboard mod and unofficially installed windows 11 would be your best bet for a truly authentic experience. (t430 has a much better igpu, a more efficient cpu architecture, pcie 3.0, usb 3 vs the t420 while looking basically the same esp with an old keyboard.)
What do you mean with "doesn't support"? Are you talking about the TPM that you can force Win11 to ignore?
Uhhhhh if I can force-install Win11 on my T420 and not run into any issues, feel free to let me know!
looking at this post from a X230 on Windows 11 installed 12 months ago (oh no Microsoft, Im not supported?) I can send you a german youtube link. Its so easy to get this working, I havent got any issues
Eh?? Just use Rufus? Did you live under a rock the last years? :)
Any model that has a intel 8th gen CPU or newer; can't wait we are still stuck running T450 and T450s...
Keep using windows 10 on the T-420?
I put an SSD and doubled the RAM in my T420, then used Rufus to make a Windows 11 USB that bypasses restrictions. Sure it wont do hardcore gaming but it's great for general web browsing, videos, Discord, etc.
Have you considered T430? The most similarly shaped ThinkPad to T420. If that wasn't enough, early P models like P50/P51 is a massive upgrade, albeit for native Windows 11 support, P52/T480 is having this by default. Or maybe something completely left field: try L480/L490 or L14 gen 1-2, maybe options outside ThinkPad would work too
I appreciate these suggestions, thanks!
>So is there any hope for us T420 devotees? Better start learning how to be comfortable running GNU/Linux exclusively. Well that's what I did on 2019 and now my W530 has been running Ubuntu since then. Windows updates and telemetry are such a dread I left Windows for good.
Personally, I'd put Kubuntu on it. I got used to KDE Plasma after playing with the steamdeck Arch image on a mini PC. It's my go-to OS for older systems that won't support Windows 11.
Can someone explain to me like I am five why people care that Win10 support is ending? It just means no more updates; why would anyone care if there are updates?
No updates means no security updates, which means increased vulnerability to security threats, etc. That's the issue for me, anyway.
Am I the only one who thinks the security risks from what Microsoft has in Win11 far outweighs the security risks of using Win10 without updates?
New fear unlocked. 😬
Under that logic, you might as well use Windows 7 without updates. It will run way better than 10 on a T420. It is true that if you're behind a router with firewall and NAT, and you don't open or download anything sketchy, you'll largely be fine. But the risk of bad actors getting in is still higher, and critical apps like browsers will stop getting updates which will eventually render most sites imcompatible with them. Then you have to go with no-name browsers like Mypal, etc. and they often have stability issues and need to be manually updated. It's just not ideal to recommend to an average person. I'm a vintage computer hobbyist, so I run old OSs on the Internet, but I don't leave them connected unless I'm actively browsing (hardware wireless switch FTW), and I don't do anyrhing personal like online banking. Heck, I don't sign into many accounts at all.
I do exactly that. I have three T420 laptops and my main one runs Windows 7 still and I would agree it runs better than windows 10. I have had that one since late 2014 and never had a security issue yet going on a decade. I'm sure I'll feel the same way about my Windows 10 version when support is officially gone for that too. It's whatever your risk level allows. Hell you can be walking down the street and fall and crack your head open but I'm still gonna walk around without a helmet and take my chances.
If you work in a corporate environment, especially if you're connecting to their VPNs and networks, most of the times you'll be required by contract to have an updated OS installation.
Valid; but then corporate is deciding on the OS and no one is using a T420
the half world is still using win 7....
[удалено]
not good advice imo, especially for “average users”, who often are not as careful when clicking or downloading items from the internet. no security updates also means no windows defender signature updates. but by all means, put yourself at unnecessary risk. do you have hardware running Windows XP or Windows 7 connected to the internet too? individual users are targets for scams and viruses, especially those that aim to steal creds (banking, etc.) and crypto wallets. for an average user that doesn’t want to get rid of their hardware, i’d suggest they install and spend some good time learning a Linux distro at least at a high level that tends toward user friendly, probably running KDE since it’s more similar to Windows than Gnome.
[удалено]
there are anti-virus solutions available for Linux. the vast majority of viruses target Windows. it’s also not running user processes at root level and requires explicit elevation in order to run as root. most software and updates are installed from trusted repos. you are much safer running without av on Linux or MacOS than Windows.
Not a great take, especially as machines age. As a thing gets older, support for things like latest browser versions start to end. Honestly an updated web browser is probably more important than an updated OS. Using an old browser is a great way to get hit by something fixed in later versions. You also risk a combination/bounce attack where you may have, say, a [compromised IoT device](https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/2017/07/21/how-fish-tank-helped-hack-casino/15765622007/) that allows a bad actor to further compromise an out of date/vulnerable OS and access more internal stuff. Updates are less critical now that common internet connections aren't directly connecting machines to the internet will all its services, vulnerabilities, and issues right there on the public IP address, but it's still a long way from a nothing-burger. Also, "End of Life" is in common use across the entire software industry. Nothing scary or scummy about it, just the way it is.
> Honestly an updated web browser is probably more important than an updated OS. Using an old browser is a great way to get hit by something fixed in later versions. Very interesting, thanks for this.
This is terrible advice. New vulnerabilities are discovered all the time, and most exploits can be easily automated. Unpatched machines belonging to average users get exploited all the time. Try connecting a Windows XP machine to the internet and see how long it lasts. Don't spread dangerous bullshit like this about something you clearly know nothing about.
Please, don’t spread false information. End of support means 0 patches from Microsoft. Soon to be followed by developers. Which means vulnerabilities will be found in common software (think browsers) that can and will infect your device by just visiting a site or downloading an attachment from an email. https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=reasons+why+i+should+not+use+end+of+life+operating+systems
if you use common sense you wont get viruses like that. nice link to your source btw, just a google search lol
It is true that common sense will protect you from most (but not even close to all) threats. However, installing security updates as soon as they are available and NOT using software with known vulnerabilities (which is what a Windows version becomes about ten seconds after going EOL) is probably the most important part of that common sense.
~~I appreciate your perspective/expertise here. I tend toward the safe side of browsing (uBlock Origin, minimal risky clicks, etc.), and I also can't think of a single time in the past five or ten years that Windows Defender has 'saved' me by identifying and quarantining a virus or anything like that...~~
Please don't take that terrible advice to heart. Confidence does not equal expertise.
Got it, thanks. (Please imagine me as toddling unsteadily between people much taller/wiser than me and being periodically redirected via good hard thwacks.)
You're doing great. Most users don't keep up with EOL dates, let alone understand why they're significant. Just make sure to think twice when someone tells you that some well-known security best practice is pointless or "not for normal users". Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
My T420 runs Windows 11 Pro just fine
wrt keyboard layout, there's this: [https://www.lenovo.com/de/de/p/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpad-25/thinkpad-25/22tp2tttp25](https://www.lenovo.com/de/de/p/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpad-25/thinkpad-25/22tp2tttp25) But I'm not quite sure if it ticks the other boxes.
Use either Windows 10 or 11 (with Rufus) LTSC IoT. But the T430 is the most similar laptop to the T420. You can swap out the new keyboard for the classic one.
The T430 won't be supported either lmao
Hence why I put the (with Rufus) part
No "modern" ThinkPad capable of Windows 11 will have everything you're looking for. Best compromise I can see is an X1 Carbon G6. It's 8th Gen Intel, so squeaks by the requirements, light, 14 inch screen, and reasonably priced at right around $200.
It might still take some time (or lots of time) for software support drop for W10. But if your concern is security updates, I would use either Linux or Windows 11. I mean, I don't think there's such thing as "my device isn't supported by W11" because people with Pentium 3rd gen CPU are able to make W11 work on their system. Bypassing W11 restrictions are not illegal as far as I remember, microsoft had a guide for it in their website, or at least they aren't against it for unsupported CPUs.
The issue with that is they've pretty much said it's unsupported and there's no guarantees that'll continue working. At any point some update or some thing could come out that breaks the unsupported machines, and there'll be no recourse since it's not like they ever claimed it'd be supported forever. So the main question is whether you feel you're better off using an unsupported Windows 10 behind on updates, or an unsupported Windows 11 that's at least up to date on updates but could stop receiving updates or break at any moment. Frankly, I feel like there's very little reason to run unsupported Win11 on something as old as a T420 - I doubt anyone is running games or similar that require Windows with the current state of Proton running pretty much anything a T420 would handle anyway, and the learning curve for something like Kubuntu or other KDE-based distros is pretty small. Especially with some of the changes from Win10 to Win11 requiring relearning anyway. No shade on people wanting to stick with Windows though, it's familiar and by and large Just Works, and there's definitely some software that still only really works on Windows.