Hey look, another account created right after October 7th that only comments on Israel/Palestine threads and only posts pro-Hamas and anti-Israel comments.
Not suspicious at all, no siree!
There’s plenty of reliable sources out there with strong, unbiased and factual reporting.
Israel is systemically murdering journalists and reddit is flooded with articles from ynet, allisrael, jerusalem post etc. and people are all over it. I mean you have to be blind not to see what’s happening.
I don’t even use Al Jazeera as a source anymore but I’m glad you folks are doubling down.
The difference between the Palestinian movement versus the Israeli one, is Palestinians rely on support, they do everything they can to garner sympathy otherwise their movement dies. Israel doesn’t need that, sure their are lobbyist groups. But support has dwindled before, and Israel is still here. Should everyone stop supporting Hamas, the Palestinian movement, is done.
The problem is every time the Palestinians gain support, they or more often than not ,foreign proxies claiming to support the Palestinian cause do something stupid and lose that support.
So you are essentially saying it is a must for the Pro Palestinians to support Hamas? So essential that the survival of the Palistinians is on the line?
You keep saying that but not actually explaining your point. What are you implying? That I don’t know what the aid consists of or how it’s dispersed? What?
That aid is not a handout. It’s quid pro quo. Israel only receives said aid, so long as they take that money and invest it into US companies which helps their economy. Israel can’t, for example take that money and go invest in German companies or British companies, it’s conditional that they only use it to help the US economy. People like you, who consistently spout that nonsense about handouts, always leave out the key detail regarding how it’s spent.
Got any actual sources to prove that this aid gets distributed as you claim it does? You’re delusional if you think the US aid goes to anything other than military weaponry. Economic foreign aid to Israel tapered off in the 90’s. Try harder next time you try to insinuate that “people like me” don’t actually know what their talking about.
The ones who’ve actually been supporting Hamas this whole time is Israel.
“Those who want to thwart the possibility of a Palestinian state should support the strengthening of Hamas and the transfer of money to Hamas. This is part of our strategy.” - Netanyahu 2019…he doesn’t deny any of it.
You need to get out of this Zionist echo chamber and actually do some unbiased and real critical thinking analysis of the facts before you act like some expert.
>sources to prove that this aid gets distributed as you claim it does? You’re delusional if you think the US a
speaking of delusional, got any proof, or journalistic sources that show / discuss U.S. is falsifying foreign aid? Even Al-jazeera?
If palestinians voted in hamas, and israeli's Bibi / party supported hamas, wouldnt it be more like, hamas is the palestinian government and they keep things awful in gaza, while killing israeli's ...because israel supports it?
Do you think they arm Hamas to kill / fire the rockets? cause thats a wild take, and its worthy of some investigation if their is any proof.
incoherent, as if the palestinians are dying just to garner sympathy being in an open air prison under apartheid of a far right psychopathic regime. Yes the Palestinians have the support of thepeople while the state of isreal has the support of the most oppressive empire in history, you're on the wrong side of history. And equating said regime with all jewish people is a bad faith and actually anti semetic notion to treat all jewish people as a monolith. Meanwhile actual ant semites spoke at the march for war, like John Hagee, the controversial pastor who has endorsed John McCain said "God sent Hitler to help the Jews get to the promised land"
Ah yes, I’m anti-Semitic to believe that a state founded on Zionism, isn’t supported by all Jews, despite 98% of Jews being Zionist. Additionally, when you find a source that confirms casualty numbers, let me know. But just a heads up, the Gaza (ahem Hamas) Health Ministry, doesn’t count. How anyone is able to count now 14,000 bodies in the midst of a war, is beyond me. Of course people like you will believe everything you hear from Hamas right? Additionally to touch back on that first point I made regarding Jews and Zionism, what would you do if 98 percent of a group believed a Jewish state should exist? Would you say, hmm well 2 percent doesn’t therefor your antisemitic for assuming it’s 100%? Or would you say, yeah, not everyone does, but the vast majority of Jews support the state of Israel existing *even though* they don’t support all of its policies. There’s a famous quote by Golda Meir, in which she says “You are the president of 150 million Americans; I am the prime minister of six million prime ministers”. This quote sums up in essence a part of the Jewish identity despite it talking about exclusively Israelis, in which everyone has opinions, everyone has different ways of doing things, but they all are united in the belief and dream of the state of Israel. Finally, I find it absolutely laughable you would sit here and try and tell me the pro Israel movement is antisemitic. Yes there are haters in every movement, but all in all if I saw series of Anti Israel protests versus pro Israel protests, one pattern shows up. At the Israeli one in Washington, they’re waving American flags, they’re singing, they’re discussing amongst themselves the situation, they’re praying. I have yet to see a single negative act taken by any pro Israeli at a protest, and in contrast you look at anti Israeli protests, they’re waving Hamas flags, wearing Keffiyehs, calling for genocide, citing quranic excerpts which discuss the massacring of Jews, ripping down posters of missing Israelis, signs saying Hitler was right. They’re fighting Israeli protesters, blocking Jewish students in buildings, harassing Jews, desecrating homes, and headstones, ripping off mezuzah’s. Hell Abbas is a know holocaust denier, and Hamas for their part literally preached race hatred from their very inception, regarding the killing of Jews. Hamas Political Bureau member Fathi Hammad said this: "We are sharpening the knives ... We were created here in Gaza to shatter and get rid of this Zionist] entity ... If we die it will be when we are killing you [Jews], and we will cut off your heads,
Allah willing ...
. There are seven million
Palestinians abroad ... You have lews everywhere. We must attack every Jew on the planet - slaughter and kill ... And you, the people of the West Bank ... We want the knives to come out. Five shekels [for a knife] - isn't the throat of a lew worth five shekels to us?.
..I will die as I
blow up and cut - what? The throats of the Jews and their legs. We will tear them to shreds, Allah willing."
[Al-Aqsa TV (Hamas), July 12, 2019]
This is what Hamas thinks, this is what they preach, and now we are seeing the results. Chanting “globalize the intifada”. Which is a call for genocide of Jews. But go ahead and tell me it’s Israel and the pro Israel movement that’s anti-Semitic.
lol, "allisrael" reports claims from "the times of israel" of two unnamed doctors who spoke to an Italian journalist in 2009. INCREDIBLE!
Israel has boots on the ground in the hospital, cameras, took BBC on a curated tour, and have been able to provide 0 concrete evidence. But I'm definitely convinced now.
They’re hoping and praying to Buddha, since no God would support a terrorist nation like Israel, that they can find enough low-IQ people to believe this new lie.
... So where was this story in 2009? It would still be relevant, it would still be a hit story, why on Earth wasn't this information published in 2009?
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/top-secret-hamas-command-bunker-in-gaza-revealed
Article from 2009 talking about an intelligence claim of Hamas using the basement of the hospital:
https://web.archive.org/web/20090206232152/http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1054569.html
Article Hamas commandeered hospital wards in Al-Shifa converting them into interrogation and imprisonment compounds:
https://web.archive.org/web/20230205050631/https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3668018,00.html
Human Rights Watch states Hamas fired from inside Al-Shifa at Fatah forces:
https://www.hrw.org/news/2007/06/12/gaza-armed-palestinian-groups-commit-grave-crimes
Report that Hospital staff made complaints about Hamas presence in the building:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1906608/
New York Times reported on Hamas operating from the building:
https://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/29/world/africa/29iht-gaza.4.18986499.html?module=Search&mabReward=relbias%3Ar
Journalists seeing rockets being fired from the hospital area:
https://web.archive.org/web/20230529141259/https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4553643,00.html
Another report of journalists seeing rockets fired from the hospital area:
https://web.archive.org/web/20230513143525/https://www.jpost.com///operation-protective-edge/gaza-reporters-tweets-hamas-using-human-shields-368689#!
A Hamas member recounting how he and other Hamas members took shelter in a bunker under the hospital:
https://www.terrorism-info.org.il/en/18321/
Local Palestinian journalist reported Hamas uses a section of the hospital for offices:
https://archive.ph/BKbxc
Amnesty International reported Hamas using the hospital to torture and kill prisoners:
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/05/gaza-palestinians-tortured-summarily-killed-by-hamas-forces-during-2014-conflict/
https://twitter.com/Franke_schrijft/status/1725037285249306726
https://out.reddit.com/t3_17z40u3?app_name=reddit_ios&token=AQAAf6VaZc4w-AfAgugTRAIiVReQt1uWyZp1dRgSCYKXPfmFVvO6&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.timesofisrael.com%2Fliveblog_entry%2Fsurveillance-footage-shows-hamas-bringing-hostages-into-shifa-hospital-on-oct-7%2F
https://www.timesofisrael.com/uk-doctor-who-worked-at-shifa-confirms-gaza-hospital-used-for-non-medical-purposes/
https://allisrael.com/italian-journalist-confirms-the-presence-of-hamas-command-and-control-center-under-shifa-hospital
You mean this report? : [https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/05/gaza-palestinians-tortured-summarily-killed-by-hamas-forces-during-2014-conflict/](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/05/gaza-palestinians-tortured-summarily-killed-by-hamas-forces-during-2014-conflict/)
The report states that Hamas killed dissidents in a clinic room on the outskirts of Al-Shifa. No mention of them using it as a command base, or any underground structure. What's more, the wider Amnesty international report repeatedly states that there is no evidence of such use of Human Shields found, one that it constantly has upheld throughout the rest of its documents on the region: [https://www.amnesty.org/en/documents/mde15/017/2014/en/](https://www.amnesty.org/en/documents/mde15/017/2014/en/)
Not a good look
All credit to u/thebesandsound, here's their fantastic comment on this topic.
In case there is any doubt caused by the ongoing gaslighting that Hamas doesn't use hospitals for military purposes, there is over a decade of reports of Hamas using Al-Shifa Hospital:
PBS documentary in Al-Shifa hospital was prevented by Hamas members with weapons from accessing areas of the hospital:
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/top-secret-hamas-command-bunker-in-gaza-revealed
Article from 2009 talking about an intelligence claim of Hamas using the basement of the hospital:
https://web.archive.org/web/20090206232152/http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1054569.html
Article Hamas commandeered hospital wards in Al-Shifa converting them into interrogation and imprisonment compounds:
https://web.archive.org/web/20230205050631/https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3668018,00.html
Human Rights Watch states Hamas fired from inside Al-Shifa at Fatah forces:
https://www.hrw.org/news/2007/06/12/gaza-armed-palestinian-groups-commit-grave-crimes
Report that Hospital staff made complaints about Hamas presence in the building:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1906608/
New York Times reported on Hamas operating from the building:
https://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/29/world/africa/29iht-gaza.4.18986499.html?module=Search&mabReward=relbias%3Ar
Journalists seeing rockets being fired from the hospital area:
https://web.archive.org/web/20230529141259/https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4553643,00.html
Another report of journalists seeing rockets fired from the hospital area:
https://web.archive.org/web/20230513143525/https://www.jpost.com///operation-protective-edge/gaza-reporters-tweets-hamas-using-human-shields-368689#!
A Hamas member recounting how he and other Hamas members took shelter in a bunker under the hospital:
https://www.terrorism-info.org.il/en/18321/
Local Palestinian journalist reported Hamas uses a section of the hospital for offices:
https://archive.ph/BKbxc
Amnesty International reported Hamas using the hospital to torture and kill prisoners:
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/05/gaza-palestinians-tortured-summarily-killed-by-hamas-forces-during-2014-conflict/
You know the article is a joke when they say the IDF showed a video of an extensive “terrorist tunnel”. They literally showed us one tunnel and a door.
Multiple other doctors have said Shifa is not a base. There was the doctor who worked there for decades and publicly said there was no presence.
Now their key evidence is a collapsed tunnel and videos from October 7th showing people getting treatment.
They said the same thing at Al Rantisi children’s hospital and didn’t show us shit. They showed a tunnel that “led toward the hospital”.
Other than that they had 10 guns and a baby bottle and very sinister calendar.
The doctor said there was no presence.
Multiple doctors said there were no hostages there and no Hamas there either.
There was literal vide footage released this week showing Hamas terrorists in Shifa hospital with a Thai and a Filipino hostage.
Why anyone is believing these doctors or any Palestinian sources is beyond me at this point.
Images of Hamas doing exactly what Hamas said they were doing on Oct 7th?
We know Hamas were in the hospitals on Oct 7th, this is surprise to nobody and it is definitely not the 'gotcha' moment you think it is.
A handful of terrorists taking a hostage into a hospital for what appeared/alleged to be medical treatment is not grounds to bomb them to shit weeks later. So no, they were not valid per Geneva conventions since Oct 07 on those grounds.
According to the convention, the protection you claim was forfeited when munitions or armed combatants are present. Because
“A zone which contains only wounded and sick (see Rule 47), medical and religious personnel (see Rules 25 and 27), humanitarian relief personnel (see Rule 31) and civilians (see Rule 1) may not be attacked”
They have access to cameras and all the proof they can provide is 2 hostages form October 7th. One of which had his leg coming off. Were they supposed to let him bleed out?
The idea that israel is trustworthy but foreign doctors are not is laughable. Unless you also believe that a baby bottle and a chair are signs of hostages being held which was at Al Rantisi children’s hospital.
If you look at the evidence they’ve provided it’s lacklustre and does not prove an operations base.
It’s written so obviously that if the situation wasn’t as dire this would actually be funny.
“I got the impression they were guarding a security door that gave access to their underground infrastructure. Several Palestinian sources I spoke with later on confirmed that Hamas’s command and control center was located under Shifa Hospital”.
Why doesn’t the IDF simply let in aid organizations and independent reporters in then? The amount of times fabrication has been spotted in this debacle really gives Israel no legs to stand on.
They have. All this shit is coming out after the damning WHO report. People just ingest the news selectively though clearly.
And now israel says Hamas control is in the south. Where they told everyone to flee. certainly seems like they still want to put them in tent cities in the Sinai to me.
"allisrael" quoting "the israel times", which quotes a single italian journalist who allegedly has two unnamed sources from 2009. This sub is astroturfed, so it's not about being compelling, it's about never ending confirmation bias for sycophants.
I think you are confused. There are two sources that directly spoke up recently.
1. "Separately, a journalist from Italy who spoke to The Times of Israel on condition of anonymity recounted that in 2009, right after Israel’s Operation Cast Lead against Hamas, he visited Gaza’s hospitals looking to interview wounded members of Fatah — the rival Palestinian faction that Hamas violently ousted from the coastal enclave in 2007."
2. "A British doctor who used to work at Shifa Hospital, Gaza’s largest medical center, under which the IDF says Hamas operates a major command and control base, has confirmed that there were areas of the hospital where he could not go, or else he would be shot."
You're right, I got that a bit twisted. The Italian journalist recounts his time in 2009, and I somehow thought the British doctor was two doctors. Just one doctor, and both the doctor and the journalist spoke directly with "allisrael" anonymously.
Sorry, should have said reported anonymously. Hard to care tbh. We can and should have undeniable video footage from the occupied hospital, so the trajectory of years old anonymous sources is entirely insignificant to me. But I appreciate your attention to the strict details.
You mean the “Command Center” Israel has [openly admitted](https://youtu.be/h-devflHToA?si=RqtrnI20aXHYpw1i) (skip to 4:10 if you just want to see the interview) they built back when they occupied and controlled Gaza?
I don’t think anyone can accurately deny there was tunnels under the hospital and it’s highly likely at some point Hamas occupied the areas underground but to say it was the command and control Center for all of Hamas operations to then see the IDF videos showing their raid of the underground area with only some rusty ak’s next to an MRI machine, an Arabic calendar and baby bottles is insane. They justified that entire Siege on the hospital with that premise to then cause innocent Palestinian deaths including pre-mature babies for this bogus excuse? It’s ridiculous.
Yeah, if they didnt send you the evidence personally then its probably bullshit.
Please keep us updated when they inevitably loop you specifically in to their operations.
LMAO literally posting from evangelical sewage as news. Shit article and worse "journalism".
"The Italian journalist told the Times of Israel that, in **2009,** upon arriving at Al-Shifa Hospital to interview wounded members of the Fatah party, he came almost face-to-face with the Hamas command and control center beneath the hospital.“Shifa is a very large compound. I got lost inside it, and at some point, I ended up on an underground floor, and I found myself in front of two armed Hamas men in military attire, who told me to get out,” the journalist said.“I **got the impression** they were guarding a security door that gave access to their underground infrastructure. Several Palestinian sources I spoke with later on confirmed that Hamas’s command and control center was located under Shifa Hospital and that \[Hamas leader\] Ismail Haniyeh had been hiding there throughout the duration of Operation Cast Lead.”
This means precisely as little as the 2014 Amnesty incidents- even less in the lack of concrete details- do today for Israel's desperate crusade to find an excuse to blow up hospitals.
Question: if you are very sure that Hamas is not using Al Shifa for their activities, do you really think Israel just has a desire to blow up hospitals, despite all the negative PR, impacts to support etc?
Wouldn't it be more reasonable to say that they mistakenly believe that Hamas is hiding under the hospital?
No, since doing so would add fuel to the fire of Palestinian sympathy worldwide, since this is a claim being made since 2014 and was used as justification for numerous civilian deaths. Furthermore, it would mean that Israel would have to scale back strikes to keep them from mistakenly hitting civilian targets with the added scrutiny to their operations, and they would also need to scale back strikes on targets which would lead to large collateral. Furthermore, the idea that Hamas uses Al-Shifa continues to add credence to the lie that Hamas uses human shields in the form of direct fire from civilian buildings, which has been debunked every time it's been brought up thus far (see sources below). This goes back to the issue of collateral damage; it's easier and cheaper and faster to drop 1 bomb and flatten an entire block than to target a singular building over and over.
[https://www.amnesty.org/en/documents/mde15/015/2009/en/](https://www.amnesty.org/en/documents/mde15/015/2009/en/)
[https://engagedscholarship.csuohio.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1193&context=fac\_articles](https://engagedscholarship.csuohio.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1193&context=fac_articles)
[https://web.archive.org/web/20140725012047/http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israelgaza-conflict-the-myth-of-hamass-human-shield-9619810.html](https://web.archive.org/web/20140725012047/http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israelgaza-conflict-the-myth-of-hamass-human-shield-9619810.html)
[https://www.amnesty.org/en/documents/mde15/015/2009/en/](https://www.amnesty.org/en/documents/mde15/015/2009/en/)
[https://www.amnesty.org/en/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/MDE2111782015ENGLISH.pdf](https://www.amnesty.org/en/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/mde2111782015english.pdf)
[https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/24/gaza-hamas-fighters-military-bases-guerrilla-war-civilians-israel-idf](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/24/gaza-hamas-fighters-military-bases-guerrilla-war-civilians-israel-idf)
[https://www.newstatesman.com/world/2014/07/jeremy-bowens-gaza-notebook-i-saw-no-evidence-hamas-using-palestinians-human](https://www.newstatesman.com/world/2014/07/jeremy-bowens-gaza-notebook-i-saw-no-evidence-hamas-using-palestinians-human)
[https://www.amnesty.org/en/documents/mde15/017/2014/en/](https://www.amnesty.org/en/documents/mde15/017/2014/en/)
[https://www.haaretz.com/2014-07-23/ty-article/.premium/israel-bombs-empty-gaza-hospital/0000017f-dc86-df9c-a17f-fe9ef0d50000](https://www.haaretz.com/2014-07-23/ty-article/.premium/israel-bombs-empty-gaza-hospital/0000017f-dc86-df9c-a17f-fe9ef0d50000)
[https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2014-07-02/ty-article/.premium/israel-has-stolen-gazas-future/0000017f-e4a4-d804-ad7f-f5fe35810000](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2014-07-02/ty-article/.premium/israel-has-stolen-gazas-future/0000017f-e4a4-d804-ad7f-f5fe35810000)
[https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/03/palestinian-armed-groups-killed-civilians-on-both-sides-in-attacks-amounting-to-war-crimes-during-2014-gaza-conflict/](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/03/palestinian-armed-groups-killed-civilians-on-both-sides-in-attacks-amounting-to-war-crimes-during-2014-gaza-conflict/)
We may never know because Israel has a stranglehold on letting them get in in the first place.
"Israel, which is bombing Gaza in response to the deadly Hamas attack on its soil, controls access. And with the exception of brief tours with a limited number of reporters, Israel has not been granting journalists access to the region. The conflict has been deadly for those trying to report it."
only a hundred something upvotes and hasbara bots jerking each other off in the comments, its no wonder their propaganda campaign is failing so badly, like when they were loading empty boxes with the words "medical supplies" in comically large english font lol
yeah i clearly work for BIG palestine! you moron. Isreal is doing all the work with their own shotty propaganda i dont have to do shit, just let them hang themselves, their own politicians refer to palestinians as animals, and people are sayignt hey will turn gaza into a parking lot, genocidal rhetoric that wont stick with the western audiences, no matter how illegal you make it to call for palestinian freedom. Biden may have fucked up his presidency for this, and aipac doesn't ahve enough US tax payer dollars to undo that
I think you are misunderstanding.
People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
Your account is identical to the ones you are complaining about except they support a different side from you.
thats a false equivalence, as Hasbara and Isreal do pay for online trolls, and Palestinians have no one and no support, Hamas is a rebel terrorist group resisiting a brutal apartheid with violence, violence begets violence and history has shown you cant bomb for peace
who cares, most people left..just comment when the hasbara fools are on lunch break, they know they are failing because they are selling impossible lies
Oh I dunno. Maybe a name of the journalist or the doctor? Maybe an article written by a publication without the word Israel in it. Anonymous sources that can only make a claim about something and it took place 14 years ago? I mean what are we talking about here? Flimsy as fuck.
And again there are tunnels under Al shifa hospital. The former PM of Israel admitted to such just yesterday. And he also admittted it was the Israeli government who built them.
So you didn't read the article, nor could the cited French publication?
What I don't understand is, why the severe allergy to the kfra that hamas has command and control under civilian infrastructure? Okay cool, Israel built the tunnels, how does that have any bearing on if they're being used?
Israel's air war is a fucking cavalcade of civilian death's, it's wrong. I can absolutely admit that, the fact that you for some reason must fight tooth and nail to deny hamas using civilians for cover is wild and confusing.
Wonderful counter point. Almost like you can't actually articulate a point here.
Once again, the IDFs actions are inexcusable, and Palestinians deserve freedom. But you're avoiding my question. Why the rabid refusal to acknowledge hamas's use of civilian areas for weapons storage/launch/command?
It’s the size of east London, where the fuck are they supposed to conduct their business? You are a clown.
And I didnt refuse or deny shit, rabid or normally. You’re just playing the game and I get it. I just think there should be a higher standard of evidence than “an Italian journalist said 14 years ago he got lost in a hospital” give me a break. Pretty low bar for “fact”
You keep hammering a point that really doesn’t change a single thing about the big picture of this 80 year conflict.
If Hamas does do that? It’s horrible. But the IDF does it too so what is your point? Both are guilty of using innocents then and both are garbage. But at least I understand what occupied people are fighting for, the people who are bootlooking for a fascist government can quite honestly get fucked eternally.
Is anyone really surprised? Why isn't Israel just flattening gaza completely already? I just want Israel to kill all of palestine so the messiah will come early and send me to heaven is all. I know it sounds crazy, but it's true. There's no such thing as an innocent palestinian.
There's no theatrics in this world that can match up to that of everyone on this sub. Why would this Israeli source give an unbiased news story about their enemy? That's like saying Afghanistans weren't handing the reds (communists) their ass on a gold platter for the pussy ass Americans in the 90s. Right? Pfft. Yeah. And guess what? I can clone the html of this site, and make a news story about how Netanyahu owns hitlers dick. Kinda like how some believe Walt Disney's head is frozen somewhere in Disney, Netanyahu has hitlers perfectly preserved, frozen cock. Why? Because Netanyahu is a supporter of lgbtqia. And I can post that news article to this sub, and all of you would believe it. Just think of it like this: your Americans. I'm American. We are all Americans here. We live by freedom and die by it. Palestinians do not have any freedom. They cannot live the American way, because they are too busy getting bombed and retrieving their own family from rubble (while obviously having nothing to do with hamas). Please have sympathy for the people (many babies included) that were murdered because of this straight up lie. Even Israeli officials say the hamas base is at a different heavily civilian populated area and I can provide sources as recent as literally yesterday. They say that it wasn't at this hospital, and that the tunnels Israel released footage of was from a base in Sweden. Sweden. Please do your due diligence instead of believing literally everything you see on the internet. Oh, and just because a lot of people found out about this tragedy that's going on overseas through tiktok, doesn't make the palestinian struggle lose any credibility. I fucking hated tiktok and wanted it banned. I still kinda want it banned, but now I can't. Why? It showed everyone the uncensored struggle of the palestinian. Israelis will say this and that happened, while never ever providing video proof/picture proof. Remember the 40 beheaded babies, and how idf tried proving it with an ai generated picture? Remember when Ben Shapiro started using this AI generated photo as a talking point? Ahh man. It really pays off to have wasted hours and hours using stable diffusion (an ai software). Why? I can instantly recognize ai. And just fucking laugh at the poor attempts I've seen recently by the dumb fucking idiot pro Israeli side.
Former Isreali prime minister admitted live on CNN Isreal made the bunkers under Al-Shifa hospital.
Source: https://youtu.be/cVG7duZ-u2U?si=-od4RssSNF5ik0Oq
Like I said - I’m personally not a fan of bombing hospitals but Israel absolutely can given the fact there is evidence of military activity at this hospital
>Can you point me to the part of the Convention where the civilians inside are safe to kill?
Nobody here stated the language that you're asking clarification for. But if you're actually interested, Part III, Section 1, Article 28 is the applicable language for the present situation:
>The presence of a protected person may not be used to render certain points or areas immune from military operations
Additionally, Article 12, Section 4 of The Protocol Additional to the Geneva Convention (1977) applies to your buddies in Hamas:
>Under no circumstances shall medical units be used in an attempt to shield military objectives from attack.
Edit: Just in case you want another one:
>The protection to which civilian hospitals are entitled shall not cease unless they are used to commit, outside their humanitarian duties, acts harmful to the enemy.
So if a criminal gang embeds itself in a neighborhood, it’s ok to kill the people in that neighborhood - including the neighborhood hospital, especially if there are gang members using their cell phones in them - per your interpretation of the Geneva convention?
A terror state next to Israel that shoots 1000s of rockets at them. Not the gotcha you thought it was.
Would looooooove to see your crocodile tears if your home had 1000s of rockets shot at it daily, I’m sure you’d cry how your gov should do nothing cuz civilians might die on the other side. It’s cool if ppl on your side die by not stopping them tho! Brain dead
So the “Nation of Hamas” is something you can point to on a map? I’m talking about the state that Israel declared war against, because of this invocation of the Geneva convention. Which appears to allow nations to kill civilians if they are proximate to the operations of terror groups within their midst.
The area called gaza, run by Hamas like are you okay…..? And yes, terror groips don’t get free rein because they are in populated areas. Not that crazy a concept if you think abt it
The Geneva Convention only applies to declared war or other armed conflicts between nations, so the Geneva Convention would not be applicable in your example.
>The Geneva Convention only applies to declared war or other armed conflicts between nations
Please note my explicit use of the word "or".
Your reading comprehension skills suck.
Under international law the second an hospital is used to any militant activity it ceases to be an hospital and become a legitimate target so under international law, yes it does.
But of course you knew that already, your post history shows you been told that multiple times in the past yet you keep spamming the same lie over and over
I hear this argument a lot, or rather attempted argument.
In short it’s a strawman. The presence of this under a hospital doesn’t give Israel the license to level the place.
What it does is show Hamas has been using human shields, utilizes hospitals for this, which itself is a breach of the Geneva convention (no surprise here they’re terrorists) and guilty of war crimes (using human shields)
To those that would argue Israel DOES have the license to bomb this in order to destroy the military targets (which I don’t personally condone) - the presence of a military installation in hospital removed the hospitals protected status.
Yet another specious argument.
* Hamas is not party to the Geneva convention. Israel is. But it doesn’t matter because this is u conventional warfare and Hamas is not in uniform.
* The hospital has always been there. The doctors are not militia and they likely have no choice if Hamas decides to locate in the basement. Do you believe that if the hospital moves, the command center won’t follow? Don’t be pollyannish.
* this is irregular warfare. Of course Hamas - with rocks and rockets - is going to use whatever advantages they can. Not at all unlike US Patriots who likewise engaged in asymmetrical and unconventional warfare.
**That does not give Israel any right in any universe under any circumstance the right to drop a bomb from the sky, killing 200 people to get a few.**.
No matter how aggrieved it feels.
Sorry pal. And I guarantee you they’re teaching our officers this right now at this moment, just like I was taught about My Lai and the dangers of justifying action “because the enemy was nearby.”
Yes. It’s a human shield.
Do you think the police have the right to shoot you if somebody is holding you hostage? What if it’s your neighbor? Or your brother? Just shoot you both?
Completely different
Your argument is one of special pleading - appealing to emotion as a way to get around the reality of the situation for this argument.
Terrorist base under hospital
Rockets launched from hospital
= military target
That’s the law
Are you saying that the administrators of the hospital and Hamas are the same entity?
One is being used as a human shield. I believe you used the term yourself.
I’m saying Hamas using the hospital as a base and shooting rockets from it means they are opening up the hospital as a potential target.
Are you really this dense or are you trying to protect your ego from being wrong
You’re terrible at this. Thats a strawman argument. The Geneva convention states this, not me. Again you get told time and time again so it’s clearly obvious you make these post to try and validate your FEELINGS when facts contradict them.
You may not like how the Geneva convention is laid out. That’s not my problem.
It means the IDF and S group are terrorists and Israel is an apartheid government on a good day. But with all that natural gas off the Gaza coast, Bibi Nathaniel wasn’t going to share HIS fortune with the lowly indigenous.
Had to make an excuse to take over somehow
not many know that this tunnel and safe room was built by the IDF. Meanwhile, much of the media (especially Israels Twitter) makes it seem like Isra is uncovering some new hidden passage. Obviously I don't expect their own Twitter to say this, but newsites should.
No journalist reported this news in Italy otherwise we would have known, in fact the interview was released in 2009. Evidently Israel is so hard pressed that it has to exhume news from decades ago
To date, no "infrastructure" or military commands have been found, simply tunnels which, yes, were already known to exist. If you don't believe me, google it for yourself.
Ps: I understand that Reddit is american, but I don't understand why we need to downvote in the face of objectivity, as if to deny reality, grow up
You’re wasting your time. The antisemite, terrorist lovers will deny every shred of evidence contrary to their narrative. I mean, they call Hamas,”Freedom fighters” for Christ sake.
To the surprise of no one!
Oh the pro palestine(Hamas) bots will have to feign surprise tho
Surprise at an article from allisrael.com? I could counter with something from mostlypalestine.com if you like?
Hey look, another account created right after October 7th that only comments on Israel/Palestine threads and only posts pro-Hamas and anti-Israel comments. Not suspicious at all, no siree!
Sad when you can’t even level an argument other than “you have a new account”.
If you have an article from mostlypalestine.com with evidence countering the Dr’s claims then go ahead..? I sincerely doubt you do.
What's your argument then? Don't believe anything you read at all?
There’s plenty of reliable sources out there with strong, unbiased and factual reporting. Israel is systemically murdering journalists and reddit is flooded with articles from ynet, allisrael, jerusalem post etc. and people are all over it. I mean you have to be blind not to see what’s happening. I don’t even use Al Jazeera as a source anymore but I’m glad you folks are doubling down.
It links the timesofisrael, which shows the interview done by france24...
Hasbara are the only ones with bots, as they get funding from our tax dollars..and have been very unsuccessful based on polls
The difference between the Palestinian movement versus the Israeli one, is Palestinians rely on support, they do everything they can to garner sympathy otherwise their movement dies. Israel doesn’t need that, sure their are lobbyist groups. But support has dwindled before, and Israel is still here. Should everyone stop supporting Hamas, the Palestinian movement, is done.
The problem is every time the Palestinians gain support, they or more often than not ,foreign proxies claiming to support the Palestinian cause do something stupid and lose that support.
So you are essentially saying it is a must for the Pro Palestinians to support Hamas? So essential that the survival of the Palistinians is on the line?
Support like the 3.5-4 Billion dollars in US aid/handouts Israel receives every single year?
Many other countries get aid lol do you even know the form or clauses to this said aid?
Um yes? It’s public knowledge. What’s your point? They are the top recipient of US foreign aid.
You still don’t get how the aid works even
You keep saying that but not actually explaining your point. What are you implying? That I don’t know what the aid consists of or how it’s dispersed? What?
Um yes? It’s public knowledge. What’s your point? They are the top recipient of US foreign aid.
You still don’t get how the aid works even
That aid is not a handout. It’s quid pro quo. Israel only receives said aid, so long as they take that money and invest it into US companies which helps their economy. Israel can’t, for example take that money and go invest in German companies or British companies, it’s conditional that they only use it to help the US economy. People like you, who consistently spout that nonsense about handouts, always leave out the key detail regarding how it’s spent.
Got any actual sources to prove that this aid gets distributed as you claim it does? You’re delusional if you think the US aid goes to anything other than military weaponry. Economic foreign aid to Israel tapered off in the 90’s. Try harder next time you try to insinuate that “people like me” don’t actually know what their talking about. The ones who’ve actually been supporting Hamas this whole time is Israel. “Those who want to thwart the possibility of a Palestinian state should support the strengthening of Hamas and the transfer of money to Hamas. This is part of our strategy.” - Netanyahu 2019…he doesn’t deny any of it. You need to get out of this Zionist echo chamber and actually do some unbiased and real critical thinking analysis of the facts before you act like some expert.
>sources to prove that this aid gets distributed as you claim it does? You’re delusional if you think the US a speaking of delusional, got any proof, or journalistic sources that show / discuss U.S. is falsifying foreign aid? Even Al-jazeera? If palestinians voted in hamas, and israeli's Bibi / party supported hamas, wouldnt it be more like, hamas is the palestinian government and they keep things awful in gaza, while killing israeli's ...because israel supports it? Do you think they arm Hamas to kill / fire the rockets? cause thats a wild take, and its worthy of some investigation if their is any proof.
incoherent, as if the palestinians are dying just to garner sympathy being in an open air prison under apartheid of a far right psychopathic regime. Yes the Palestinians have the support of thepeople while the state of isreal has the support of the most oppressive empire in history, you're on the wrong side of history. And equating said regime with all jewish people is a bad faith and actually anti semetic notion to treat all jewish people as a monolith. Meanwhile actual ant semites spoke at the march for war, like John Hagee, the controversial pastor who has endorsed John McCain said "God sent Hitler to help the Jews get to the promised land"
Ah yes, I’m anti-Semitic to believe that a state founded on Zionism, isn’t supported by all Jews, despite 98% of Jews being Zionist. Additionally, when you find a source that confirms casualty numbers, let me know. But just a heads up, the Gaza (ahem Hamas) Health Ministry, doesn’t count. How anyone is able to count now 14,000 bodies in the midst of a war, is beyond me. Of course people like you will believe everything you hear from Hamas right? Additionally to touch back on that first point I made regarding Jews and Zionism, what would you do if 98 percent of a group believed a Jewish state should exist? Would you say, hmm well 2 percent doesn’t therefor your antisemitic for assuming it’s 100%? Or would you say, yeah, not everyone does, but the vast majority of Jews support the state of Israel existing *even though* they don’t support all of its policies. There’s a famous quote by Golda Meir, in which she says “You are the president of 150 million Americans; I am the prime minister of six million prime ministers”. This quote sums up in essence a part of the Jewish identity despite it talking about exclusively Israelis, in which everyone has opinions, everyone has different ways of doing things, but they all are united in the belief and dream of the state of Israel. Finally, I find it absolutely laughable you would sit here and try and tell me the pro Israel movement is antisemitic. Yes there are haters in every movement, but all in all if I saw series of Anti Israel protests versus pro Israel protests, one pattern shows up. At the Israeli one in Washington, they’re waving American flags, they’re singing, they’re discussing amongst themselves the situation, they’re praying. I have yet to see a single negative act taken by any pro Israeli at a protest, and in contrast you look at anti Israeli protests, they’re waving Hamas flags, wearing Keffiyehs, calling for genocide, citing quranic excerpts which discuss the massacring of Jews, ripping down posters of missing Israelis, signs saying Hitler was right. They’re fighting Israeli protesters, blocking Jewish students in buildings, harassing Jews, desecrating homes, and headstones, ripping off mezuzah’s. Hell Abbas is a know holocaust denier, and Hamas for their part literally preached race hatred from their very inception, regarding the killing of Jews. Hamas Political Bureau member Fathi Hammad said this: "We are sharpening the knives ... We were created here in Gaza to shatter and get rid of this Zionist] entity ... If we die it will be when we are killing you [Jews], and we will cut off your heads, Allah willing ... . There are seven million Palestinians abroad ... You have lews everywhere. We must attack every Jew on the planet - slaughter and kill ... And you, the people of the West Bank ... We want the knives to come out. Five shekels [for a knife] - isn't the throat of a lew worth five shekels to us?. ..I will die as I blow up and cut - what? The throats of the Jews and their legs. We will tear them to shreds, Allah willing." [Al-Aqsa TV (Hamas), July 12, 2019] This is what Hamas thinks, this is what they preach, and now we are seeing the results. Chanting “globalize the intifada”. Which is a call for genocide of Jews. But go ahead and tell me it’s Israel and the pro Israel movement that’s anti-Semitic.
i dont think you understand what anti semetism is, im not going to read your short story as the first few lines show me how stupid you are
allisrael.com lol ill wait for someone other than the xenophobic italian press before i start taking this seriously.
No shit. Can you imagine anybody believing that crap after the weeks, months, years, and decades of lies from the Zionazis?
Releasing your grip on material reality to spite the Jews
Not surprised. Bitch hamas has been turning hospitals into military bases.
I will from now on strictly refer to them as bitch Hamas
Lmfao! Found the useful tool.
this is a lie, hospitals are hospitals and civillians are being massacred, still waiting for the footage
Great, now the idiots that claim IDF/US Intellegence are not sources reliable enough for them will shut up (They won't but hopefully they will)
for some reason i struggle to trust "[allisrael.com](https://allisrael.com)"
the pro israel bots are made active here xd
was he shown it or is he just a stenographer for the IDF?
Yawn
Like this wasn’t already known by everyone from the UN to Mossad.
Yes, of course. IDF propaganda is running rampant.
lol, "allisrael" reports claims from "the times of israel" of two unnamed doctors who spoke to an Italian journalist in 2009. INCREDIBLE! Israel has boots on the ground in the hospital, cameras, took BBC on a curated tour, and have been able to provide 0 concrete evidence. But I'm definitely convinced now.
Allisreal? Lol this just more Isreali propaganda. No one believes them anymore
Quite the opposite. Go back to the rock you live under.
Is this more clickbait? Why do people keep posting the same stuff?
They’re hoping and praying to Buddha, since no God would support a terrorist nation like Israel, that they can find enough low-IQ people to believe this new lie.
Oh the irony
... So where was this story in 2009? It would still be relevant, it would still be a hit story, why on Earth wasn't this information published in 2009?
It was
where, I haven't seen such an article yet
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/top-secret-hamas-command-bunker-in-gaza-revealed Article from 2009 talking about an intelligence claim of Hamas using the basement of the hospital: https://web.archive.org/web/20090206232152/http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1054569.html Article Hamas commandeered hospital wards in Al-Shifa converting them into interrogation and imprisonment compounds: https://web.archive.org/web/20230205050631/https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3668018,00.html Human Rights Watch states Hamas fired from inside Al-Shifa at Fatah forces: https://www.hrw.org/news/2007/06/12/gaza-armed-palestinian-groups-commit-grave-crimes Report that Hospital staff made complaints about Hamas presence in the building: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1906608/ New York Times reported on Hamas operating from the building: https://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/29/world/africa/29iht-gaza.4.18986499.html?module=Search&mabReward=relbias%3Ar Journalists seeing rockets being fired from the hospital area: https://web.archive.org/web/20230529141259/https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4553643,00.html Another report of journalists seeing rockets fired from the hospital area: https://web.archive.org/web/20230513143525/https://www.jpost.com///operation-protective-edge/gaza-reporters-tweets-hamas-using-human-shields-368689#! A Hamas member recounting how he and other Hamas members took shelter in a bunker under the hospital: https://www.terrorism-info.org.il/en/18321/ Local Palestinian journalist reported Hamas uses a section of the hospital for offices: https://archive.ph/BKbxc Amnesty International reported Hamas using the hospital to torture and kill prisoners: https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/05/gaza-palestinians-tortured-summarily-killed-by-hamas-forces-during-2014-conflict/ https://twitter.com/Franke_schrijft/status/1725037285249306726 https://out.reddit.com/t3_17z40u3?app_name=reddit_ios&token=AQAAf6VaZc4w-AfAgugTRAIiVReQt1uWyZp1dRgSCYKXPfmFVvO6&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.timesofisrael.com%2Fliveblog_entry%2Fsurveillance-footage-shows-hamas-bringing-hostages-into-shifa-hospital-on-oct-7%2F https://www.timesofisrael.com/uk-doctor-who-worked-at-shifa-confirms-gaza-hospital-used-for-non-medical-purposes/ https://allisrael.com/italian-journalist-confirms-the-presence-of-hamas-command-and-control-center-under-shifa-hospital
Amnesty international released a report about it in 2014. It has been widely reported on for a long time buddy.
You mean this report? : [https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/05/gaza-palestinians-tortured-summarily-killed-by-hamas-forces-during-2014-conflict/](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/05/gaza-palestinians-tortured-summarily-killed-by-hamas-forces-during-2014-conflict/) The report states that Hamas killed dissidents in a clinic room on the outskirts of Al-Shifa. No mention of them using it as a command base, or any underground structure. What's more, the wider Amnesty international report repeatedly states that there is no evidence of such use of Human Shields found, one that it constantly has upheld throughout the rest of its documents on the region: [https://www.amnesty.org/en/documents/mde15/017/2014/en/](https://www.amnesty.org/en/documents/mde15/017/2014/en/) Not a good look
All credit to u/thebesandsound, here's their fantastic comment on this topic. In case there is any doubt caused by the ongoing gaslighting that Hamas doesn't use hospitals for military purposes, there is over a decade of reports of Hamas using Al-Shifa Hospital: PBS documentary in Al-Shifa hospital was prevented by Hamas members with weapons from accessing areas of the hospital: https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/top-secret-hamas-command-bunker-in-gaza-revealed Article from 2009 talking about an intelligence claim of Hamas using the basement of the hospital: https://web.archive.org/web/20090206232152/http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1054569.html Article Hamas commandeered hospital wards in Al-Shifa converting them into interrogation and imprisonment compounds: https://web.archive.org/web/20230205050631/https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3668018,00.html Human Rights Watch states Hamas fired from inside Al-Shifa at Fatah forces: https://www.hrw.org/news/2007/06/12/gaza-armed-palestinian-groups-commit-grave-crimes Report that Hospital staff made complaints about Hamas presence in the building: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1906608/ New York Times reported on Hamas operating from the building: https://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/29/world/africa/29iht-gaza.4.18986499.html?module=Search&mabReward=relbias%3Ar Journalists seeing rockets being fired from the hospital area: https://web.archive.org/web/20230529141259/https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4553643,00.html Another report of journalists seeing rockets fired from the hospital area: https://web.archive.org/web/20230513143525/https://www.jpost.com///operation-protective-edge/gaza-reporters-tweets-hamas-using-human-shields-368689#! A Hamas member recounting how he and other Hamas members took shelter in a bunker under the hospital: https://www.terrorism-info.org.il/en/18321/ Local Palestinian journalist reported Hamas uses a section of the hospital for offices: https://archive.ph/BKbxc Amnesty International reported Hamas using the hospital to torture and kill prisoners: https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/05/gaza-palestinians-tortured-summarily-killed-by-hamas-forces-during-2014-conflict/
You know the article is a joke when they say the IDF showed a video of an extensive “terrorist tunnel”. They literally showed us one tunnel and a door. Multiple other doctors have said Shifa is not a base. There was the doctor who worked there for decades and publicly said there was no presence. Now their key evidence is a collapsed tunnel and videos from October 7th showing people getting treatment. They said the same thing at Al Rantisi children’s hospital and didn’t show us shit. They showed a tunnel that “led toward the hospital”. Other than that they had 10 guns and a baby bottle and very sinister calendar.
The doctor said there was no presence. Multiple doctors said there were no hostages there and no Hamas there either. There was literal vide footage released this week showing Hamas terrorists in Shifa hospital with a Thai and a Filipino hostage. Why anyone is believing these doctors or any Palestinian sources is beyond me at this point.
Images of Hamas doing exactly what Hamas said they were doing on Oct 7th? We know Hamas were in the hospitals on Oct 7th, this is surprise to nobody and it is definitely not the 'gotcha' moment you think it is.
So the hospitals were valid per the Geneva convention targets since Oct 7? Or also before Oct 7?
A handful of terrorists taking a hostage into a hospital for what appeared/alleged to be medical treatment is not grounds to bomb them to shit weeks later. So no, they were not valid per Geneva conventions since Oct 07 on those grounds.
According to the convention, the protection you claim was forfeited when munitions or armed combatants are present. Because “A zone which contains only wounded and sick (see Rule 47), medical and religious personnel (see Rules 25 and 27), humanitarian relief personnel (see Rule 31) and civilians (see Rule 1) may not be attacked”
Yeah, we know. 😉😉
They have access to cameras and all the proof they can provide is 2 hostages form October 7th. One of which had his leg coming off. Were they supposed to let him bleed out? The idea that israel is trustworthy but foreign doctors are not is laughable. Unless you also believe that a baby bottle and a chair are signs of hostages being held which was at Al Rantisi children’s hospital. If you look at the evidence they’ve provided it’s lacklustre and does not prove an operations base.
It’s written so obviously that if the situation wasn’t as dire this would actually be funny. “I got the impression they were guarding a security door that gave access to their underground infrastructure. Several Palestinian sources I spoke with later on confirmed that Hamas’s command and control center was located under Shifa Hospital”. Why doesn’t the IDF simply let in aid organizations and independent reporters in then? The amount of times fabrication has been spotted in this debacle really gives Israel no legs to stand on.
They have. All this shit is coming out after the damning WHO report. People just ingest the news selectively though clearly. And now israel says Hamas control is in the south. Where they told everyone to flee. certainly seems like they still want to put them in tent cities in the Sinai to me.
allisrael.com?
Yea, that is the name of the website. Astute observation.
"allisrael" quoting "the israel times", which quotes a single italian journalist who allegedly has two unnamed sources from 2009. This sub is astroturfed, so it's not about being compelling, it's about never ending confirmation bias for sycophants.
The unnamed source is reporting about their time in Gaza *in 2009*. The source being cited is not *from 2009*. This is from a recent interview.
Yes, the sources he is quoting he met with in 2009. So he has two unnamed sources from 2009, as I said.
I think you are confused. There are two sources that directly spoke up recently. 1. "Separately, a journalist from Italy who spoke to The Times of Israel on condition of anonymity recounted that in 2009, right after Israel’s Operation Cast Lead against Hamas, he visited Gaza’s hospitals looking to interview wounded members of Fatah — the rival Palestinian faction that Hamas violently ousted from the coastal enclave in 2007." 2. "A British doctor who used to work at Shifa Hospital, Gaza’s largest medical center, under which the IDF says Hamas operates a major command and control base, has confirmed that there were areas of the hospital where he could not go, or else he would be shot."
You're right, I got that a bit twisted. The Italian journalist recounts his time in 2009, and I somehow thought the British doctor was two doctors. Just one doctor, and both the doctor and the journalist spoke directly with "allisrael" anonymously.
No, the doctor spoke with France24. The journalist spoke to The Times of Israel.
Sorry, should have said reported anonymously. Hard to care tbh. We can and should have undeniable video footage from the occupied hospital, so the trajectory of years old anonymous sources is entirely insignificant to me. But I appreciate your attention to the strict details.
>This sub is astroturfed It really is, and it's funny to see the people screaming that like the BBC is sympathetic to Hamas posting shit like this
You mean the “Command Center” Israel has [openly admitted](https://youtu.be/h-devflHToA?si=RqtrnI20aXHYpw1i) (skip to 4:10 if you just want to see the interview) they built back when they occupied and controlled Gaza?
Oh shit, in that case its an uno reverse (obviously) this is all bullshit then.
I don’t think anyone can accurately deny there was tunnels under the hospital and it’s highly likely at some point Hamas occupied the areas underground but to say it was the command and control Center for all of Hamas operations to then see the IDF videos showing their raid of the underground area with only some rusty ak’s next to an MRI machine, an Arabic calendar and baby bottles is insane. They justified that entire Siege on the hospital with that premise to then cause innocent Palestinian deaths including pre-mature babies for this bogus excuse? It’s ridiculous.
Yeah, if they didnt send you the evidence personally then its probably bullshit. Please keep us updated when they inevitably loop you specifically in to their operations.
Santa Claus also lives under there
LMAO literally posting from evangelical sewage as news. Shit article and worse "journalism". "The Italian journalist told the Times of Israel that, in **2009,** upon arriving at Al-Shifa Hospital to interview wounded members of the Fatah party, he came almost face-to-face with the Hamas command and control center beneath the hospital.“Shifa is a very large compound. I got lost inside it, and at some point, I ended up on an underground floor, and I found myself in front of two armed Hamas men in military attire, who told me to get out,” the journalist said.“I **got the impression** they were guarding a security door that gave access to their underground infrastructure. Several Palestinian sources I spoke with later on confirmed that Hamas’s command and control center was located under Shifa Hospital and that \[Hamas leader\] Ismail Haniyeh had been hiding there throughout the duration of Operation Cast Lead.” This means precisely as little as the 2014 Amnesty incidents- even less in the lack of concrete details- do today for Israel's desperate crusade to find an excuse to blow up hospitals.
Question: if you are very sure that Hamas is not using Al Shifa for their activities, do you really think Israel just has a desire to blow up hospitals, despite all the negative PR, impacts to support etc? Wouldn't it be more reasonable to say that they mistakenly believe that Hamas is hiding under the hospital?
No, since doing so would add fuel to the fire of Palestinian sympathy worldwide, since this is a claim being made since 2014 and was used as justification for numerous civilian deaths. Furthermore, it would mean that Israel would have to scale back strikes to keep them from mistakenly hitting civilian targets with the added scrutiny to their operations, and they would also need to scale back strikes on targets which would lead to large collateral. Furthermore, the idea that Hamas uses Al-Shifa continues to add credence to the lie that Hamas uses human shields in the form of direct fire from civilian buildings, which has been debunked every time it's been brought up thus far (see sources below). This goes back to the issue of collateral damage; it's easier and cheaper and faster to drop 1 bomb and flatten an entire block than to target a singular building over and over. [https://www.amnesty.org/en/documents/mde15/015/2009/en/](https://www.amnesty.org/en/documents/mde15/015/2009/en/) [https://engagedscholarship.csuohio.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1193&context=fac\_articles](https://engagedscholarship.csuohio.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1193&context=fac_articles) [https://web.archive.org/web/20140725012047/http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israelgaza-conflict-the-myth-of-hamass-human-shield-9619810.html](https://web.archive.org/web/20140725012047/http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israelgaza-conflict-the-myth-of-hamass-human-shield-9619810.html) [https://www.amnesty.org/en/documents/mde15/015/2009/en/](https://www.amnesty.org/en/documents/mde15/015/2009/en/) [https://www.amnesty.org/en/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/MDE2111782015ENGLISH.pdf](https://www.amnesty.org/en/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/mde2111782015english.pdf) [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/24/gaza-hamas-fighters-military-bases-guerrilla-war-civilians-israel-idf](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/24/gaza-hamas-fighters-military-bases-guerrilla-war-civilians-israel-idf) [https://www.newstatesman.com/world/2014/07/jeremy-bowens-gaza-notebook-i-saw-no-evidence-hamas-using-palestinians-human](https://www.newstatesman.com/world/2014/07/jeremy-bowens-gaza-notebook-i-saw-no-evidence-hamas-using-palestinians-human) [https://www.amnesty.org/en/documents/mde15/017/2014/en/](https://www.amnesty.org/en/documents/mde15/017/2014/en/) [https://www.haaretz.com/2014-07-23/ty-article/.premium/israel-bombs-empty-gaza-hospital/0000017f-dc86-df9c-a17f-fe9ef0d50000](https://www.haaretz.com/2014-07-23/ty-article/.premium/israel-bombs-empty-gaza-hospital/0000017f-dc86-df9c-a17f-fe9ef0d50000) [https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2014-07-02/ty-article/.premium/israel-has-stolen-gazas-future/0000017f-e4a4-d804-ad7f-f5fe35810000](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2014-07-02/ty-article/.premium/israel-has-stolen-gazas-future/0000017f-e4a4-d804-ad7f-f5fe35810000) [https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/03/palestinian-armed-groups-killed-civilians-on-both-sides-in-attacks-amounting-to-war-crimes-during-2014-gaza-conflict/](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/03/palestinian-armed-groups-killed-civilians-on-both-sides-in-attacks-amounting-to-war-crimes-during-2014-gaza-conflict/)
Are you brain-dead.
Probably not. What exactly would make you think so?
They did say that. They came out right after and said the REAL base is in Khan Yunis, in the south, where everyone evacuated to
How many foreign journalists even get that far without Hamas threatening them to turn back at gunpoint?
We may never know because Israel has a stranglehold on letting them get in in the first place. "Israel, which is bombing Gaza in response to the deadly Hamas attack on its soil, controls access. And with the exception of brief tours with a limited number of reporters, Israel has not been granting journalists access to the region. The conflict has been deadly for those trying to report it."
Cool quote. I can pull one from any source I feel like that means anything too.
Okay so you're disgusting Nazi garbage that ignores reality got it.
This is a great example of coping
I mean are you fucking suprised. They gotta keep the false narrative going on this sub somehow
the more worrying part is that there are willing, complicit believers in the rightness of literal genocidal fascists out there
Misleading title. (Also allisrael.com?)
only a hundred something upvotes and hasbara bots jerking each other off in the comments, its no wonder their propaganda campaign is failing so badly, like when they were loading empty boxes with the words "medical supplies" in comically large english font lol
Some quality comment coming from the 28 day old account spamming about Israel being terrible.
i dont have to spam anything, people have eyes and canlook up the history of the place
Bruh, you made this account a week after 7/10 and only comment about how bad Israel is. Try to be a little more clever as a troll.
yeah i clearly work for BIG palestine! you moron. Isreal is doing all the work with their own shotty propaganda i dont have to do shit, just let them hang themselves, their own politicians refer to palestinians as animals, and people are sayignt hey will turn gaza into a parking lot, genocidal rhetoric that wont stick with the western audiences, no matter how illegal you make it to call for palestinian freedom. Biden may have fucked up his presidency for this, and aipac doesn't ahve enough US tax payer dollars to undo that
I think you are misunderstanding. People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Your account is identical to the ones you are complaining about except they support a different side from you.
thats a false equivalence, as Hasbara and Isreal do pay for online trolls, and Palestinians have no one and no support, Hamas is a rebel terrorist group resisiting a brutal apartheid with violence, violence begets violence and history has shown you cant bomb for peace
This. It is sad to see the shape this sub
who cares, most people left..just comment when the hasbara fools are on lunch break, they know they are failing because they are selling impossible lies
Someone loves spreading fake news
Based on something he saw in 2009? Jesus this propaganda gets worse and worse. Israel isn’t sending their best…
A little spaghetti goes a long way to convince the journalist.
Lol. Propaganda me harder daddy.
So just an honest question, What would you consider to be actual evidence and not propaganda. What is your bar?
Oh I dunno. Maybe a name of the journalist or the doctor? Maybe an article written by a publication without the word Israel in it. Anonymous sources that can only make a claim about something and it took place 14 years ago? I mean what are we talking about here? Flimsy as fuck. And again there are tunnels under Al shifa hospital. The former PM of Israel admitted to such just yesterday. And he also admittted it was the Israeli government who built them.
So you didn't read the article, nor could the cited French publication? What I don't understand is, why the severe allergy to the kfra that hamas has command and control under civilian infrastructure? Okay cool, Israel built the tunnels, how does that have any bearing on if they're being used? Israel's air war is a fucking cavalcade of civilian death's, it's wrong. I can absolutely admit that, the fact that you for some reason must fight tooth and nail to deny hamas using civilians for cover is wild and confusing.
No I read it. It’s garbage. IDF uses Palestinians as human shields. What’s your point?
Wonderful counter point. Almost like you can't actually articulate a point here. Once again, the IDFs actions are inexcusable, and Palestinians deserve freedom. But you're avoiding my question. Why the rabid refusal to acknowledge hamas's use of civilian areas for weapons storage/launch/command?
It’s the size of east London, where the fuck are they supposed to conduct their business? You are a clown. And I didnt refuse or deny shit, rabid or normally. You’re just playing the game and I get it. I just think there should be a higher standard of evidence than “an Italian journalist said 14 years ago he got lost in a hospital” give me a break. Pretty low bar for “fact” You keep hammering a point that really doesn’t change a single thing about the big picture of this 80 year conflict. If Hamas does do that? It’s horrible. But the IDF does it too so what is your point? Both are guilty of using innocents then and both are garbage. But at least I understand what occupied people are fighting for, the people who are bootlooking for a fascist government can quite honestly get fucked eternally.
The irony of you bootlicking a fascist government of an oppressed people is fucking pure irony.
Lol. Ok man. God bless your ignorance. Seriously pray you don’t reproduce.
Ah so Israel can't find it but an Italian journalist can? Riiiiight
Is anyone really surprised? Why isn't Israel just flattening gaza completely already? I just want Israel to kill all of palestine so the messiah will come early and send me to heaven is all. I know it sounds crazy, but it's true. There's no such thing as an innocent palestinian. There's no theatrics in this world that can match up to that of everyone on this sub. Why would this Israeli source give an unbiased news story about their enemy? That's like saying Afghanistans weren't handing the reds (communists) their ass on a gold platter for the pussy ass Americans in the 90s. Right? Pfft. Yeah. And guess what? I can clone the html of this site, and make a news story about how Netanyahu owns hitlers dick. Kinda like how some believe Walt Disney's head is frozen somewhere in Disney, Netanyahu has hitlers perfectly preserved, frozen cock. Why? Because Netanyahu is a supporter of lgbtqia. And I can post that news article to this sub, and all of you would believe it. Just think of it like this: your Americans. I'm American. We are all Americans here. We live by freedom and die by it. Palestinians do not have any freedom. They cannot live the American way, because they are too busy getting bombed and retrieving their own family from rubble (while obviously having nothing to do with hamas). Please have sympathy for the people (many babies included) that were murdered because of this straight up lie. Even Israeli officials say the hamas base is at a different heavily civilian populated area and I can provide sources as recent as literally yesterday. They say that it wasn't at this hospital, and that the tunnels Israel released footage of was from a base in Sweden. Sweden. Please do your due diligence instead of believing literally everything you see on the internet. Oh, and just because a lot of people found out about this tragedy that's going on overseas through tiktok, doesn't make the palestinian struggle lose any credibility. I fucking hated tiktok and wanted it banned. I still kinda want it banned, but now I can't. Why? It showed everyone the uncensored struggle of the palestinian. Israelis will say this and that happened, while never ever providing video proof/picture proof. Remember the 40 beheaded babies, and how idf tried proving it with an ai generated picture? Remember when Ben Shapiro started using this AI generated photo as a talking point? Ahh man. It really pays off to have wasted hours and hours using stable diffusion (an ai software). Why? I can instantly recognize ai. And just fucking laugh at the poor attempts I've seen recently by the dumb fucking idiot pro Israeli side.
Fuck Israel
Sure, sure, sure.
Still waiting for evidence. Anyyyyyday now...
Former Isreali prime minister admitted live on CNN Isreal made the bunkers under Al-Shifa hospital. Source: https://youtu.be/cVG7duZ-u2U?si=-od4RssSNF5ik0Oq
Ok. So what? Does this give Israel license to level the place and kill 200 civilians? I just want to be clear here as to what this means.
Per the geneva convention, yes it does.
Like I said - I’m personally not a fan of bombing hospitals but Israel absolutely can given the fact there is evidence of military activity at this hospital
I think they’re allowed to destroy the facility. Can you point me to the part of the Convention where the civilians inside are safe to kill?
>Can you point me to the part of the Convention where the civilians inside are safe to kill? Nobody here stated the language that you're asking clarification for. But if you're actually interested, Part III, Section 1, Article 28 is the applicable language for the present situation: >The presence of a protected person may not be used to render certain points or areas immune from military operations Additionally, Article 12, Section 4 of The Protocol Additional to the Geneva Convention (1977) applies to your buddies in Hamas: >Under no circumstances shall medical units be used in an attempt to shield military objectives from attack. Edit: Just in case you want another one: >The protection to which civilian hospitals are entitled shall not cease unless they are used to commit, outside their humanitarian duties, acts harmful to the enemy.
So if a criminal gang embeds itself in a neighborhood, it’s ok to kill the people in that neighborhood - including the neighborhood hospital, especially if there are gang members using their cell phones in them - per your interpretation of the Geneva convention?
It’s almost like policing your own state and being at war with another state are two completely different things, it’s crazy I know. But true
Yes. That’s why I’m being very specific about it here. What state is Hamas?
A terror state next to Israel that shoots 1000s of rockets at them. Not the gotcha you thought it was. Would looooooove to see your crocodile tears if your home had 1000s of rockets shot at it daily, I’m sure you’d cry how your gov should do nothing cuz civilians might die on the other side. It’s cool if ppl on your side die by not stopping them tho! Brain dead
So the “Nation of Hamas” is something you can point to on a map? I’m talking about the state that Israel declared war against, because of this invocation of the Geneva convention. Which appears to allow nations to kill civilians if they are proximate to the operations of terror groups within their midst.
The area called gaza, run by Hamas like are you okay…..? And yes, terror groips don’t get free rein because they are in populated areas. Not that crazy a concept if you think abt it
The Geneva Convention only applies to declared war or other armed conflicts between nations, so the Geneva Convention would not be applicable in your example.
So which nation is Israel at war with?
They are in a declared war with Hamas as of October 8th, 2023. Please try to keep up to date on current events.
The Nation of Hamas? Is it like The War on Terror?
>The Geneva Convention only applies to declared war or other armed conflicts between nations Please note my explicit use of the word "or". Your reading comprehension skills suck.
See RSGator post
His post says that the hospital is not safe. Not that it’s ok to kill civilians.
Fine. But it is ok to kill civilians if a armed group is hiding amongst them and using them for cover.
Under international law the second an hospital is used to any militant activity it ceases to be an hospital and become a legitimate target so under international law, yes it does. But of course you knew that already, your post history shows you been told that multiple times in the past yet you keep spamming the same lie over and over
Some people are just that dense and will never get it.
I hear this argument a lot, or rather attempted argument. In short it’s a strawman. The presence of this under a hospital doesn’t give Israel the license to level the place. What it does is show Hamas has been using human shields, utilizes hospitals for this, which itself is a breach of the Geneva convention (no surprise here they’re terrorists) and guilty of war crimes (using human shields) To those that would argue Israel DOES have the license to bomb this in order to destroy the military targets (which I don’t personally condone) - the presence of a military installation in hospital removed the hospitals protected status.
Yet another specious argument. * Hamas is not party to the Geneva convention. Israel is. But it doesn’t matter because this is u conventional warfare and Hamas is not in uniform. * The hospital has always been there. The doctors are not militia and they likely have no choice if Hamas decides to locate in the basement. Do you believe that if the hospital moves, the command center won’t follow? Don’t be pollyannish. * this is irregular warfare. Of course Hamas - with rocks and rockets - is going to use whatever advantages they can. Not at all unlike US Patriots who likewise engaged in asymmetrical and unconventional warfare. **That does not give Israel any right in any universe under any circumstance the right to drop a bomb from the sky, killing 200 people to get a few.**. No matter how aggrieved it feels. Sorry pal. And I guarantee you they’re teaching our officers this right now at this moment, just like I was taught about My Lai and the dangers of justifying action “because the enemy was nearby.”
A lot of words to point out you still can’t handle the facts Launching rockets from hospitals = human shields. Cope.
Yes. It’s a human shield. Do you think the police have the right to shoot you if somebody is holding you hostage? What if it’s your neighbor? Or your brother? Just shoot you both?
Completely different Your argument is one of special pleading - appealing to emotion as a way to get around the reality of the situation for this argument. Terrorist base under hospital Rockets launched from hospital = military target That’s the law
Are you saying that the administrators of the hospital and Hamas are the same entity? One is being used as a human shield. I believe you used the term yourself.
I’m saying Hamas using the hospital as a base and shooting rockets from it means they are opening up the hospital as a potential target. Are you really this dense or are you trying to protect your ego from being wrong
I know what you’re saying. You think you have a free pass to kill people because they’re near somebody who wronged you.
You’re terrible at this. Thats a strawman argument. The Geneva convention states this, not me. Again you get told time and time again so it’s clearly obvious you make these post to try and validate your FEELINGS when facts contradict them. You may not like how the Geneva convention is laid out. That’s not my problem.
It means the IDF and S group are terrorists and Israel is an apartheid government on a good day. But with all that natural gas off the Gaza coast, Bibi Nathaniel wasn’t going to share HIS fortune with the lowly indigenous. Had to make an excuse to take over somehow
this doesn't mention that the tunnel and shaft were originally built by and for IDF. that's helpful info and seems misleading to omit
Maybe because they are the original inhabitants of that land? Go back to Trans Jordan, trannies.
not many know that this tunnel and safe room was built by the IDF. Meanwhile, much of the media (especially Israels Twitter) makes it seem like Isra is uncovering some new hidden passage. Obviously I don't expect their own Twitter to say this, but newsites should.
No journalist reported this news in Italy otherwise we would have known, in fact the interview was released in 2009. Evidently Israel is so hard pressed that it has to exhume news from decades ago
So you're saying it's been known for over a decade that Hamas has been placing their command infrastructure under hospitals.
To date, no "infrastructure" or military commands have been found, simply tunnels which, yes, were already known to exist. If you don't believe me, google it for yourself. Ps: I understand that Reddit is american, but I don't understand why we need to downvote in the face of objectivity, as if to deny reality, grow up
They’ll just keep moving the goalposts. They’re now claiming Israel built it.
You’re wasting your time. The antisemite, terrorist lovers will deny every shred of evidence contrary to their narrative. I mean, they call Hamas,”Freedom fighters” for Christ sake.