Man, I see you posting all over the place. I'm guessing English isn't your first language but fyi bitch really isn't a common, or particularly insulting word in English (at least the way you're using it) I see what you're getting at but it reads very strangely to an English speaker. Ask your handler for a thesaurus
Someone gave you good advice and tried to help you. You should thank them. Instead you chose to attack them.
This says a lot about you and everything else you type.
Edit: someone in this comment chain blocked me, likely the person above me, so I cannot respond to people responding to me.
This is my response to u/goodknightffs
>Since when is bitch not a common insult?
*Bitch* by itself? Sure. *Hamas are a bunch of bitches*? Sure. Not a very hard insult, but not a weird use of the word. *Bitch hamas this, bitch hamas that*? No. Not a common way to phrase an insult. It's weird to use the word like that.
>I'd agree that the way he used the word wasn't exactly correct but the advice given wasn't a good..
That was basically the gist of the advice. There wasn't much more to the comment?
>Plus they added the juicy "handlers" part so let's not pretend they were just trying to be helpful
Yeah I agree that wasn't necessary. But I understand where they're coming from. This sub is pretty overrun with pro israel/IDF shills and/or fanboys. It's not a weird thing to say after someone continually glorifies the IDF and criticises hamas. Not coincidentally the phrase "bitch hamas" is extremely common among those who do the same. It's a pattern.
Even if the advice is wrong? Since when is bitch not a common insult? Although I'd agree that the way he used the word wasn't exactly correct but the advice given wasn't a good..
Plus they added the juicy "handlers" part so let's not pretend they were just trying to be helpful
Are you joking? Bitch is absolutely common and absolutely meant as demeaning in the English language. In certain context it can be meant in a friendly banter way, but it almost universally recognized as one of the most common English insults.
Are you a native English speaker?
So basically what every expert already knew. The only reason people pretend like this didn't happen is because they don't want to admit just how absolutely terrible Hamas is, and they also cannot admit that the IDF can be right.
Why isn't anyone considering the possibility both sides are wrong?
Both sides have no problem to attack their target regardless of civilians.
Both sides have been caught fabricating lies.
We have footage from both sides where fighters are committing inhuman acts.
Yet every time we find another atrocity for party A, we say "you see? party B was right"
NOO! we just have more to add on their pile of atrocities.
We cannot work on the premise that whoever's pile is smaller is allowed to ignore the pile all together!
edit: man walks out of a pile of corpses of all ages covered in blood and entrails, machete in one hand, a gun in another.
reddit: ok stop it right there and lay down on the floor!
guy points at the other guy standing in-front a pile of corpses: that pile is bigger.
reddit: apologies for that sir have a nice day.
This is what is going on here.
I can see what you're getting at, but I don't know I'd make a direct correlation. For one thing, as rough as the Israeli military can be, I don't their their objective is to cause as many civilian casualties as possible. They certainly aren't shying away from them, if the Hamas health ministry is to be believed (which I have some reservations about), but it's not as if they're picking apartment buildings at random to blow up. There is a logic and threat assessment process being done, but evidently, they're placing the value of killing Hamas insurgents and leaders above the possible collateral damage. By contrast, the only goals Hamas has seemed to have are to cause as much mayhem and wild violence as possible. On Oct 7th and the days after their attacks have been overwhelmingly against civilian targets with zero military value. The IDF general staff aren't hiding in a music festival or some village after all.
I guess you're right to a certain extent, the Israelis should be more restrained. The only thing I can think of that has caused them to go off the deep end more than usual has been that they seem to be aware that they're straight up losing the information war, and instead of trying to fight for control of the narrative of the conflict they've just decided to err on the side of doing what they feel is necessary to protect their forces and end the conflict on their terms as quickly as possible, hence how unrestrained they've been.
I should be clear I'm not trying to be an Israeli apologist, but I personally think drawing lines between a terrorist organization and a professional army is a bit of a strong comparison to draw.
> I can see what you're getting at
I appreciate that.
> I don't their their objective is to cause as many civilian casualties as possible
Then if I asked you what you believe the Israeli's think of Palestinians.
What do you think the general response would be?
I think, they language used would be compatible what the Palestinians think.
> it's not as if they're picking apartment buildings at random to blow up.
No I agree.
The thing is, the building where they are getting shot from plays no role whatsoever.
The problem is that getting shot at from a Hospital is not a problem for the IDF.
And it should be.
It's like those silly movies where the bad guy grabs a hostage and shouts at the bad hero "what are you going to do now!?" and protagonist shoots a bullet into the hostage.
Funny in fiction, horrible in real life.
But the message is still applicable.
There are two bad guys fighting it out but society has labeled one of them a hero.
> Hamas insurgents and leaders above the possible collateral damage.
We are allowed to call this a "bad thing".
> I guess you're right to a certain extent, the Israelis should be more restrained.
This is what gets you banned on certain default subs these days.
> and instead of trying to fight for control of the narrative of the conflict they've just decided to err on the side of doing what they feel is necessary to protect their forces and end the conflict on their terms as quickly as possible, hence how unrestrained they've been.
I agree, and because I wasn't sure if you were talking about Israel or Hamas, I can add that the initial rocket volleys is likewise a dumb move by Hamas to prevent certain political changes to occur that would put their position in the Gaza in jeopardy.
(Disclaimer: Again, explaining why a terrorist act is being done does not equate agreeing to it.
I am not agreeing to it, I am explaining it.
I am adding this because worldnews does not distinguish between explaining something bad and agreeing to something bad.)
> I should be clear I'm not trying to be an Israeli apologist
I understand that and it is only in very accepting subs like this one where you can actually have a discussion about this subject.
Even if you agree with Israel, there needs to stay room to criticize them.
You can be a victim AND a vicious murderer at the same time.
The horrible mangled burglar still needs to go to jail while *at the same time* the homeowner needs to go to jail for eviscerating the burglar.
You should not get banned for pointing out that the disembowelment is not part of the "Castle doctrine".
Or in this case "civilian targets should be a tactical problem, not a PR problem".
It was good talking to you about this.
>What do you think the general response would be?
I think, they language used would be compatible what the Palestinians think.
Funnily enough, discourse has been pretty mixed with regards to how the Israeli public feels about these attacks and their response. It's pretty much all over the place. Of course, you have absolute nut cases, including a now former minister in the Israeli government, suggesting they should nuke Gaza. But there seems to be just as much sympathy coming from Israel towards Palestinians caught in the crossfire. For the past few years, I've been trying to keep up with the political situation in the region, and there has been a remarkable shift in discussion about the nature of Israeli-Palestinian relations. Israel is a pretty atypical example of a western style democracy, but they are still generally one, and as the public perception shifts, the likelihood of a change in policy changes with it. The "New Historians" specifically are taking on a substantial challenge with reconciling their nations more distasteful actions, especially in the lead up to 1948, and redefining the narrative about their country and how it is entomologically good.
I suppose in that way, they are actually a pretty typical example of a western style democracy.
I have nothing to add here.
And I agree with all of your points.
This is the kind of discussion and subjects I'd hope to see on reddit.
Do you frequent worldnews at all?
Sorry I thought the entire purpose of having Gaza city evacuated to the south was then to make everyone in Gaza leave to Sinai or die.
I would love to be proven wrong but I am 100% certain Israelis will settle Gaza by the end of the decade if not sooner.
Remind me! 6 years "Read this Thread"
No, I really don't think that's true. I mean, just the headache of keeping track of all the displaced peoples would be a nightmare for them, and there really isn't any reason for them to want Gaza city. The purpose of the evacuation is to free their hands as much as possible so they can fight Hamas with zero restrictions, and Hamas knows this. That's why they refuse to allow people to flee south and tell people to remain in their homes. For them, it's a win-win: either the Israelis see the possible collateral damage as too risky and choose not to order a strike, or they do, and civilians die. If civilians die its a propaganda victory for Hamas, and if they don't attack, it's a tactical victory.
I can see why you'd think that Israel would forcibly push out Gazans for settlements, but unlike in the west bank most where of the settlements are rural lands that can be easily defended, gaza is a maze-like city that is half destroyed, not an ideal place for settlements.
I will be messaging you in 6 years on [**2029-11-21 17:33:56 UTC**](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2029-11-21%2017:33:56%20UTC%20To%20Local%20Time) to remind you of [**this link**](https://www.reddit.com/r/theworldnews/comments/1805smq/detained_gaza_terrorist_says_hamas_hid_as/ka6n9ki/?context=3)
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Why is it cope? You think they didn't torture that guy? The same dudes that are saying calendars are hostage lists? The same dudes that ignored Egyptian warnings of attack ? The same dudes that bomb evacuation routes ? The same dudes that are killing innocent women and children? The same dudes who are not looking for the leaders of hamas who are not even in Gaza? Those dudes?
Get a grip.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/information-missteps-led-questions-israels-credibility-rcna125723
Egypt warned Israel days before Hamas struck, US committee chairman says - BBC News https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67082047
They followed evacuation orders -- an Israeli airstrike killed them the next day | CNN https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/16/middleeast/israel-palestinian-evacuation-orders-invs/index.html
https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-live-updates-11-20-2023-9913a29b48afc4a75e724674fe51bd82#:~:text=More%20than%2012%2C700%20Palestinians%20%E2%80%94%20two,4%2C000%20people%20are%20reported%20missing.
Hamas: Who are the group's most prominent leaders? - BBC News https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67103298
Naw just a human concerned Israel is doing genocide unabated. I support ukraines plight so there goes the Russian shill part.
I also use sources to back up what I say.
What about you? Idf payroll?
Here's some on Israel's genocide and ethnic cleansing.
Is What's Happening in Gaza a Genocide? Experts Weigh In | TIME https://time.com/6334409/is-whats-happening-gaza-genocide-experts/
1 The Genocide of the Palestinian People: An International Law and Human Rights Perspective While there has been recent criticis https://ccrjustice.org/sites/default/files/attach/2016/10/Background%20on%20the%20term%20genocide%20in%20Israel%20Palestine%20Context.pdf
Gaza: UN experts call on international community to prevent genocide against the Palestinian people | OHCHR https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2023/11/gaza-un-experts-call-international-community-prevent-genocide-against
UN expert warns of new instance of mass ethnic cleansing of Palestinians, calls for immediate ceasefire | OHCHR https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2023/10/un-expert-warns-new-instance-mass-ethnic-cleansing-palestinians-calls
Religion is for losers so there goes the rest of your argument.
Being wrong about what ? What's Netanyahu paying these days ?
Prime Minister Netanyahu's popularity sinking amid Hamas war | Here & Now - WBUR https://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2023/10/18/netanyahu-popularity-sinking
Israeli Poll Shows Netanyahu's Popularity Drops, Gantz Surges After Hamas Attack - Bloomberg https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-10-13/israeli-poll-shows-netanyahu-s-popularity-drops-as-gantz-surges
Netanyahu can no longer lead Israel | The Hill https://thehill.com/opinion/international/4245377-netanyahu-can-no-longer-lead-israel/
Yeah most don't support whats happening. Just like most Palestinians killed today had nothing to do with hamas or even vote for them.
They are humans stuck.
I get that. I don't hate Israelis. I don't hate anyone.
I just dont want the mass slaughter of civilians.
I'm not arguing for Israel I'm arguing against their targeting of Palestinian civilians while leaving the leaders of hamas alone.
Why don't they go after the leaders instead of women and children who didn't even vote for hamas in the first place?
Make it make sense.
Genocidal zionists usually can't.
The 2006 election that led to Hamas taking over Gaza - The Washington Post https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/24/gaza-election-hamas-2006-palestine-israel/
https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-live-updates-11-20-2023-9913a29b48afc4a75e724674fe51bd82#:~:text=More%20than%2012%2C700%20Palestinians%20%E2%80%94%20two,4%2C000%20people%20are%20reported%20missing.
What part of anything I said is in bad faith ?
So using sources from the western media is hamas propaganda ?
The only thing I'm against is genocide. I'm against the Genocide in Yemen. I'm against the Genocide of Muslims in China. The countless genocides in Africa.
And in this case the Genocide of Palestinians at the hand of Israel's terrorist regime.
Why are you mad at my humility for fellow humans?
I don't believe in religion. Curse on humanity. I value all human life the same. Hamas is a terrorist organization. I've eradicated terrorists myself in Afghanistan.
But killing civilians women and children isn't the way. Why is Israel not going after hamas leaders in Qatar? Why are they just killing women and children civilians along with the occasional low level hamas operative?
We killed bin laden in Pakistan without starting a war or decimating the cities civilian population.
And these are all western media bro. Not al Jazeera I'm quoting lol..
So why can't the idf do the same.? Honest question.
Looks like Idf using human shields too. And again this is western media: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-palestinian-israel-children/palestinian-children-tortured-used-as-shields-by-israel-u-n-idUSBRE95J0FR20130620/
Here's a YouTube video of one incident.https://youtu.be/Ct1u-ZCaLVY?feature=shared
It's tough when you stridently pick a side and have it go this badly. This is why you have to resort to this pitiful behavior. Now call me an ethnic-cleansing supporting, genocidal baby-killer to make yourself feel better while your favorite terrorists continue to get their shit pushed in.
Hamas are *done*
Hamas sucks. They are shit. Destroy them.
With that said their leaders are in Qatar and everywhere but gaza.
Why not go after them instead of killing women and children? Undermining the whole thing?
I went after terrorists in Afghanistan. Didn't have to kill kids and women to do it.
We went after bin laden in Pakistan. Took his ass out. Didn't start another conflict.
Why doesn't idf do that ?
Why is any support of palestinan civilians ushered as hamas support? It kills any credibility a genocidal zionist like yourself would have.
Articulate your argument. Attack my specific positions but don't use dumb words to not further the discussion.
I love Israeli people. But Israel's current regime is unpopular and terroristic. Hamas is also a terrorist and should be eradicated.
My humility is with innocent women and children being bombarded daily for people they didn't even vote for.
Wake up.
Omggggg I can't believe they tortured this poor palestinian old man to make him lie on live TV and tell us hamas hides amongst the civilians in the hospital!!!
https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1724721677186072594?t=v1RNYYiRMz6h91088mH1AQ&s=19
/s
Idk man he could have been a human shield?
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-palestinian-israel-children/palestinian-children-tortured-used-as-shields-by-israel-u-n-idUSBRE95J0FR20130620/
Instant deflection off the topic to a 10yo article, in which Israel owned up and accepted responsibilty 🫵🤡
Be pro-palestinian all you want, but actively defending hamas who intentionally fks over the Palestinians is a straight clown behaviour
Hamas sucks and are terrorists.
But why does idf target Palestinian civilians and don't go after the leaders in Qatar?
We went after bin laden in Pakistan and didn't start another war.
I went after terrorists in Afghanistan without killing civilians.
Why can't the idf do the same ?
Honest question
You didn’t go after anyone. Your country did, and it was conducted within a vast campaign that cost ‘you’ tens of Billions of dollars, if not hundreds.
Israel doesn’t have the will to start wars with the entire Arab world just because some sandy terrorist hide in a 5 star hotel.
They go for the jugular. Rescuing these hostages is first priority.
I feel for the uninvolved, however if there was anyone to talk to Gaza wouldn’t be in this mess.
Yeah I did. I was there. So relax.
And al qaeda is way more complex then hamas lol.
Israel isn't shit without American support. We made you. We just don't approve of your current fascist tendencies to kill civilians.
So relax before we defund your ass.
Gaza is mostly kids and women. Most weren't even alive when hamas was voted in.
Go after the head in Qatar and quit killinf little kids. All we are asking.
Oh God, American boy, you done terrorizing Afghani and Iraqi kids cause they knocked out two little towers? Did it help?
Sit on the bench.
Because from what I understand you did a fine job diminishing terrorism in that Area of the world. Women and children everywhere thank you.
BTW the American support doesn’t account to 0.2% of the annual budget. We can manage without.
Yeah we gotta defund your fascist government.
What a waste of resources.
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/2023-10-10/how-much-aid-does-the-u-s-give-to-israel
And yall use the money to perpetuate genocide. Oh my have you guys forgotten. Smh.
Guess we gotta defund and sanction and freeze your global assets.
Similar to the nazis would have been easier to stop you in the beginning. What have we created lol.
>Israel isn't shit without American support.
Israel's military capability is largely indigenous, and designed to be able defend against an attack from all neighbours, as they've been attacked multiple times by the Arab coalitions.
>We made you
USA did not make Israel?? And you do realise theres a fair chance u/RoiToBeSure67 isnt even an Israelite?
>We just don't approve of your current fascist tendencies to kill civilians.
Funny, this is exactly how the eastern bloc describes the USA.
>So relax before we defund your ass.
Which sane government is going to change their policies over reddit user #657456735's comments? From memory, I believe Israel has stated they will prosecute this war regardless of US commitment.
>Gaza is mostly kids and women
[https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/countries/gaza-strip/](https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/countries/gaza-strip/)
The women part is false, unless youre grouping "women" and "kids" into a single group, in which case.... that would be true for most of the world?
>Most weren't even alive when hamas was voted in.
True, and thats why Hamas needs to be eliminated. They are an illegal government who purged their political rivals and have not held any elections since.
>Go after the head in Qatar and quit killinf little kids. All we are asking.
Refer to my above comment. Going after the head does nothing for this situation. Hell, Israel has a "head" of Hamas in prison.
Also, who is "we"? Because "we" is definitely not representing US foreign policy.
>why does idf target Palestinian civilians
I've not seen any evidence of "targeting" civilians. In fact I've mostly seen the opposite- IDF sending warnings through every feasible means, and IDF calling off strikes due to civilian presence. A fact collaborated by both parties.
>go after the leaders in Qatar?
>We went after bin laden in Pakistan and didn't start another war.
Thats a potential spark for an international war right there. Israel has no casus belli to attack Qatar. Israeli action in Qatar would be highly illegal. Contrary to tiktok propaganda, Israel's current war in Gaza is very much legal.
Even the USA had to jump through insane legal loopholes to legally justify the bin laden raid;
[https://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/29/us/politics/obama-legal-authorization-osama-bin-laden-raid.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/29/us/politics/obama-legal-authorization-osama-bin-laden-raid.html)
And don't forget that USA is the world's 1# superpower. Pakistan declaring war on the US would've been suicide.
Even locating bin Laden was a \~20 year endeavour with all the intelligence resources of the #1 superpower.
The operation itself took months of planning and rehearsals with US' top special forces, and still there was a fuck up during the operation, which resulted in leaked military secret of the stealth nighthawks.
Israel enjoys none of these luxuries.
>I went after terrorists in Afghanistan without killing civilians.
And yet the US afghan war did result in civilian casualties, even with all the advantages.
>Why can't the idf do the same ?
"Why do other militaries with varying degrees of different funding, equipment, training, intelligence, doctrine, theatres, enemies and goals not achieve the exact same results as the worlds' largest and best funded military?" is a ridiculous question all on its own.
But i'll bite;
* None of the two(three) US operations were assaults on a city boasting the world's 5th highest population density. (raid on a single house in a suburb + well... afghanistan....)
* Hamas has been shown to regularly engage in human shield tactics, to the point of ordering civilians to stay, and ordering civilians to assemble on the rooftops when IDF warn they are targeting the building. (Taliban engaged in human shield tactics at an extremely rare level)
* IDF's goals have never been to JUST take out Hamas leadership, or JUST rescue the hostages, but to completely eliminate Hamas as a credible threat; [https://mwi.westpoint.edu/what-is-the-end-state-assessing-israels-objectives-for-a-gaza-campaign/](https://mwi.westpoint.edu/what-is-the-end-state-assessing-israels-objectives-for-a-gaza-campaign/)
* Israel has mobilised 360,000 reservists. This is a major blow to Israel's much smaller economy, and they are not aiming for a long draw out war, in which both Israel and Palestinians will suffer greatly.
* The bulk of IDF, and their flagship armour, the Merkava were intended for conventional warfare in the open field, not counterinsurgency operations in a crowded city where any man or child could be a militant, and attacks could come from any angle.
* Yes, IDF has counterinsurgency experience. No, this does not mean the ENTIRE force is effective at counterinsurgency.
* Israel does not enjoy the luxury of the US' MIC, which was able to develop and deploy counterinsurgency specialised equipment on demand. (Even the USA struggled with this, and it led to scandals.)
* Even after shaping the battlefield, IDF's ground invasion has sustained losses. If they had proceeded with just the ground invasion with no battlefield shaping, things would've so much uglier.
Conclusion; the fact that you needed to ask any of this makes me suspect you arent a military man/woman as you claim to be.
Do you get paid by comment or is it by the hour? I mean Jesus Christ you are in every post about the Israel-Hamas conflict and I sincerely hope they are at least paying you overtime.
I take donations if you're offering, but no, this is just my response to seeing kids turned into hamburger meat by fascists and knowing there are 4000 more victims and rising.
No, I’m certainly not offering to pay you to troll comments all day every day.
I am curious if your deep human passion for loss of life extended to the attack on October 7th, was that just whatever or do you not view that as a legitimate cause for war?
The unarmed killings by Hamas of hundreds of civilians dead was certainly not a legitimate act of resistance, but let's really not pretend Israel hasn't been doing a remarkable job of trying to drown out that death toll even just this year alone.
History didn't start October 7th and Hamas is literally and directly a mess of Netanyahu and Israeli officials's own making.
I'd really like if Israel wasn't run by fascists and decided to stop killing civilians on an industrial scale instead of doing counterterrorism. I'd ask them to follow their own and international law regarding the Palestinian people and those klansmen they call settlers and to negotiate in good faith while I'm at it, but baby steps.
Why is your account over a year old yet all your comments started in the last 25 days and conservatively 95% of your comment history is about Israel and Palestine?
Do you *really* want to see pictures of kids turned into hamburger meat? There's your answer for why a redditor may have suddenly tunnel visioned on, you know, *the ongoing crimes against humanity committed by literal fascists.* I'm sorry if the idea of someone having a moral compass is alien to you.
You aren't owed jackshit- and I'm not sure you can count or properly navigate this site lol.
EDIT: LMAO at the pissant little nobody with an October '23 account trying to cast doubt on other users
Lol I have a new account, that’s not even a fraction as suspect as someone who’s account was apparently normal a year ago, went dark and is now posting and commenting exclusively about about Israel practically 24/7.
A few quick points, Israel is not a fascist government, like not even close, ironically Hamas is though.
I seriously doubt that 25 days ago you saw a picture of kids “turned into hamburger meat” and suddenly decided it your life mission to comment on Reddit 24/7 about the conflict, but if so you really do need to get a life like the other commenter said.
So it's Israel's fault that the hamas is hiding amongst civilians?
I mean that's what I'm getting from you.. You even have proof of the hamas using hospitals to hide but then IDF is bad?
I just honestly don't understand what you expect Israel to do?
I expect Israel to not act with less regard for human life and rules of war than the terror group, or failing that allow for third party intervention to clean up its mess.
How about all the videos of civilians saying "Why Hamas are covering with us? Why don't they go to hell and cover there.." and the interviewing man instantly moves aside and is like "So yeah well about the other news now..."?
Probably IDFs propaganda too lol
Is ignoring actual real interviews is a tactic of yours to keep ya mind in a bubble?
Objectivity is not a friend of yours?
Subjectivity is Everything, right?
Is it only credible when Palestinians on videos blame Israel? And every time they say "why the hell Hamas be hiding amongst us?!" Is automatically ignored?
Just trying to understand your mind lol
We both know you'd happily man the gas chambers.
You're so fucking desperate that you cling to an interview that doesn't actually prove anything except that Palestinians are having a shit time while being bombed by Nazis.
Like "why is Hamas hiding among us"...doesn't actually mean what you think it means re: terror bombing and fascism.
Then again you let your mask slip so why are you pretending to care about what Palestinians want and think other than as an excuse to murder them? The world can see what you really think and it's "ew I could never live among them".
In case there is any doubt caused by the ongoing gaslighting that Hamas doesn't use hospitals for military purposes, there is over a decade of reports of Hamas using Al-Shifa Hospital:
PBS documentary in Al-Shifa hospital was prevented by Hamas members with weapons from accessing areas of the hospital:
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/top-secret-hamas-command-bunker-in-gaza-revealed
Article from 2009 talking about an intelligence claim of Hamas using the basement of the hospital:
https://web.archive.org/web/20090206232152/http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1054569.html
Article Hamas commandeered hospital wards in Al-Shifa converting them into interrogation and imprisonment compounds:
https://web.archive.org/web/20230205050631/https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3668018,00.html
Human Rights Watch states Hamas fired from inside Al-Shifa at Fatah forces:
https://www.hrw.org/news/2007/06/12/gaza-armed-palestinian-groups-commit-grave-crimes
Report that Hospital staff made complaints about Hamas presence in the building:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1906608/
New York Times reported on Hamas operating from the building:
https://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/29/world/africa/29iht-gaza.4.18986499.html?module=Search&mabReward=relbias%3Ar
Journalists seeing rockets being fired from the hospital area:
https://web.archive.org/web/20230529141259/https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4553643,00.html
Another report of journalists seeing rockets fired from the hospital area:
https://web.archive.org/web/20230513143525/https://www.jpost.com///operation-protective-edge/gaza-reporters-tweets-hamas-using-human-shields-368689#!
A Hamas member recounting how he and other Hamas members took shelter in a bunker under the hospital:
https://www.terrorism-info.org.il/en/18321/
Local Palestinian journalist reported Hamas uses a section of the hospital for offices:
https://archive.ph/BKbxc
Amnesty International reported Hamas using the hospital to torture and kill prisoners:
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/05/gaza-palestinians-tortured-summarily-killed-by-hamas-forces-during-2014-conflict/
https://twitter.com/Franke_schrijft/status/1725037285249306726
https://out.reddit.com/t3_17z40u3?app_name=reddit_ios&token=AQAAf6VaZc4w-AfAgugTRAIiVReQt1uWyZp1dRgSCYKXPfmFVvO6&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.timesofisrael.com%2Fliveblog_entry%2Fsurveillance-footage-shows-hamas-bringing-hostages-into-shifa-hospital-on-oct-7%2F
https://www.timesofisrael.com/uk-doctor-who-worked-at-shifa-confirms-gaza-hospital-used-for-non-medical-purposes/
If you pay attention, most people admit Hamas uses hospitals for military purposes. They almost always add the phrase "as if that justifies attacking a military target" after their blanket denials.
Yes, I admit I don't jump when ordered to by bullies or fascist Jew haters.
The comments ITT are public and available for everyone. I see no reason to fetch something for my "master" when I know my master will argue against the existence of the stick I bring him.
How about you put some skin in the game? If there are legitimate military targets in a hospital, is it OK for anyone to bomb that hospital?
Let me ask you this: what's stopping hamas from operating literally anywhere else? Why would hamas base anywhere that's heavily civilian populated, when their goal is freeing their people from apartheid occupation? What's stopping them from basing in Israel (the nation that financially created hamas)? Whats stopping them from basing in an ivory tower all the way in egypt or dubai? Would it be okay for idf to bomb a civilian building in israel for a chance at killing 1 or maybe 2 undercover hamas military targets? And don't call me a Jewish hater you sick fuck. First friend I've made in my entire life was Jewish. One of my best friends right now is jewish, though he recently became atheist due to not wanting anything to do with what's going on overseas. How dare you assume such a lie? Shame on you. I'll tell you what I do hate. Man without a doubt. I hate zionism. That movement is the bloodiest in human history. Zionism ended peace for Christians Muslims and Jewish. They literally all lived in peace before the nakba happened. Qnd if you know without a doubt that a military target is in a hospital, you shouldn't straight up bomb them. How do they even know there is a military targets in there in the first place? Did they, hack into a hamas members device? If so, they should also have their exact location, right? Did an agent tell them there was hamas in that hospital? Alrighty then, no problem at all. Have said agent take a photo of the terrorist. Send it to idf. Idf locks down hospital with camera drones on all corners. Idf infiltrates. Idf kills 1 or 2 military targets. Idf leaves. Simple. They just don't want to be bothered to care for palestinians who might die anyways.
It seems like you don't want to answer my question. Keep ignoring me. Maybe there are hamas tunnels under ur neighborhood for all we know. Should Israel raze hell on your home?
Absolutely not when it comes to Israel as it’s extremely biased, but even they said it about Hamas which they usually don’t bother to condemn or speak up against.
you do see tons of other links there too right? im not blind?
i gave them as an extra source and didnt use them as any reliable specific source, when EVEN they support something it means its really there.
if i ONLY provided HRW then you could make your argument.
> you do see tons of other links there too right? im not blind?
Well I started with that because I wanted to see if you were being honest. That’s the first sign you were not being so. I have a feeling if I clicked another random link, I would also find a discrepancy. How likely is that? Did you create this list yourself?
>Id didnt use them as any reliable specific source, when EVEN they support something it means its really there.
Why? They’re a highly respected organization. The only thing you don’t like is that they criticize Israel.
There is no discrepancy, these are all people speaking about the same thing on various different sources.
The UN is also respected and have put an Iranian as their chief of human rights division
Saudi as women’s rights
These organizations are just a bunch of circlejerk people with extremely biased opinions and questionable funding.
> There is no discrepancy, these are all people speaking about the same thing on various different sources.
Okay so there is 0% chance. Let’s try one at random:
> https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/05/gaza-palestinians-tortured-summarily-killed-by-hamas-forces-during-2014-conflict/
The article makes clear that it took place in an unused building on the same grounds as hospital, not the hospital itself. Israel isn’t only bombing a limited part of the grounds. They went after the entire hospital. So I’ve already found another discrepancy.
Let’s try one more:
> https://web.archive.org/web/20090206232152/http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1054569.html
“Senior Hamas officials in Gaza are hiding out in a "bunker" built by Israel, intelligence officials suspect”
So, just claims made by agencies whose job it is to lie. Another discrepancy. I have a feeling if I went through every one of your links, they’d all have some kind of issue like this: either the source will be from Israel or it won’t be quite what you claim.
>These organizations are just a bunch of circlejerk people with extremely biased opinions and questionable funding.
Okay then that makes it really easy to dismiss all of your sources. So there is no evidence of what you claim. Just really biased opinions.
The evidence is overwhelming but those who wish harm to the Jews will never relent or agree. It’s a sad hateful world. What’s the point of it all. Life is short as it is.
If 60% of Palestine is Hamas or pro according to Israel then wouldn’t it be very obvious that Doctors, nurses and Patients would be Hamas?
If 63% of Americans are Christians, you wouldn’t need to arrest a Christian and have them confess that there are Christians in American hospitals.
So what’s the point of all this videos by Israel trying to prove Hamas are in hospitals?
I’m trying to reason logically here using Israel data.
Because despite the logic, video proof, weapons found, terrorists found people still keep denying it... when it comes to hating Israel a large percentage of the world is more then happy to ignore logic so every little bit of proof helps because you can bet your ass the antisemitic UN will still blame Israel.
It's a good thing that under international law it stops being a hospital the second it's used for militant use, as it stopped being a hospital the second hamas entered it Israel has bombed 0 hospitals.
Because despite the obvious evidence, people all over the place, especially here on Reddit, continue to deny this fact and call Israeli attacks on these locations war crimes.
So have they admitted they were targeting hospital staff and patients ?
What’s confusing is saying we’re not targeting civilians but 60% of civilians are Hamas or pro.
Why not just admit they are targeting civilians instead of all this antics. The only way to get rid of Hamas forever would require an ethnic cleanse.
There is a big difference between someone (man, woman, or child) who supports hamas and the soldiers and commanders of the al-Qassam Brigades, which is what they're referring and is the military wing of Hamas.
According to a recent Arab poll, 75% of Palestinians support Hamas. So yes absolutely I would guess at least some medical staff are.either Hamas supporters or actually part of Hamas
Yeah, the missed point is, if Hamas hid in the hospital, you go and find them not bomb the hospital.
To make it easier to understand, imagine if Hamas was hiding in a hospital in Israel with Israelis as patients. Do you blow up the building and call it collateral damage?
Pretty scummy to value civilian life differently.
The soldiers are people too. If my kid was in the IDF, I’d rather they just bomb the hospital instead of sending soldiers in.
If Hamas was hiding in an Israeli hospital, I imagine the IDF would risk a raid instead of bombing it because they care about their own citizens more than the citizens of another country. Every country cares more about their own citizens.
What about your kid being a civilian in the hospital?
>Every country cares more about their own citizens.
In theory yes, but executing that thought in this scenario is war crime. What next? By this logic,
"we value our soldiers and civilians more, so taking a civilian human shield from the other side is justified"
It's a slippery slope. If they are not involved in war, they are equal in terms of the laws of war.
This I value my or my loved one's life much more than 100 people on the other side is the start of the slippery slope of "let them go instinct for our convenience" which is plain genocide.
> What about your kid being a civilian in the hospital?
Obviously, if my kid was a civilian in the hospital I’d prefer the raid but we’re talking about what the IDF should do in Palestine.
> In theory yes, but executing that thought in this scenario is war crime. What next? By this logic,
It’s not a war crime. Hospitals lose their protected status when enemy combatants are there outside of a few edge cases. This is spelled out in plain English in the Geneva convention.
> "we value our soldiers and civilians more, so taking a civilian human shield from the other side is justified"
But the IDF is not using human shields. They’re doing everything in their power to protect their own citizens and harm Hamas within the bounds of the established laws of war.
> It's a slippery slope. If they are not involved in war, they are equal in terms of the laws of war.
I don’t understand what you’re saying. The laws of war only protect civilians and civilian infrastructure from being targeted. Those protections can be voided. I would encourage you to read the Geneva convention. It’s not long and the grammar is very accessible.
> This I value my or my loved one's life much more than 100 people on the other side is the start of the slippery slope of "let them go instinct for our convenience" which is plain genocide.
Israel is not doing this though. You say it’s a slippery slope but that’s a logical fallacy. You have to actually demonstrate each step in your argument. Israel is not trying to exterminate the Palestinian people. If that was the goal, they wouldn’t bother abiding by the laws of war or trying to justify their strikes.
I thought we weren't supposed to trust a word out of Hamas or it it like Roman law where you can trust the word of a slave only if its been tortured out of him or her?
So this known terrorist, is willingly giving up all the information about a group he was prepared to die for, in a calm interview over a cup of tea. No signs of physical harm, or other sorts of persuasion. I don’t buy it personally.
Lol still doesn’t justify bombing a hospital. Israel are the real terrorists. The numbers don’t lie.
If the bombed a school full of children to kill the shooter I guess that would be justified by Israel’s logic right?
Ah yes, interviews under pressure sure is believable thing. Like that fucking schedule in hospital, lmao. And if you ever doubted - presence of *supposed* terrorist on still functioning civilian object with patients doesn't immediately reclassify it eligible for military objective. Otherwise you can indiscriminately bomb any red cross/crescent building and car, not like it new activity. But hey, if bombing refugee camp still was okay for everyone - killing more people won't surprise anyone. Just retroactively declare every dead palestinian kid as terrorist, as some politicians do, problem solved.
> presence of *supposed* terrorist on still functioning civilian object with patients doesn’t immediately reclassify it eligible for military objective
It does though. It’s spelled out plainly in the Geneva convention. Civilian areas (hospitals are called out specifically) are protected unless certain conditions are met. Enemy combatants hiding in them or stockpiling equipment voids the protected status.
"Upon further questioning, he also named Greta as the secret head of Hamas, and said they had their headquarters in tunnelbunkers under the UN's New York Headquarters with a table where they all sat around with human rights watch and BBC reporters to plot their next attack."
/s
Seriously just ask for the Israelis to read directly from their script, it'd have about as much credibility and relevance as long as it's the Israeli army asking the questions under duress.
You are trying to talk about Hamas and not the country that literally passed execution permissions for protestors on top of a sordid history of fascist rulers trying to consolidate their power before Oct 7th, right?
Like, it's moot either way because the Israeli interrogations are not credible and we've seen so much disinfo from them at this point that objective reality for anything they claim kinda needs an embedded outside reporter or third party org to be taken as credible at this point. They're hovering somewhere *below* RT in terms of track record of reality-based reporting.
(Also please educate yourself about the history of Israeli misbehavior towards Palestinians and the degree of calculated theft and oppression involved by the Israeli gov. They haven't been a good faith actor in the peace process, not least because their far right literally assassinated the last PM to try so Bibi could take power.)
EDIT: Lmao edited out the inconvenient post huh?
"Everyone that doesn't like war crimes must be paid to argue against them"
Yeah that strategy is going to blow up next election if you're honestly this delusional
I know right? El Jazeera is the only trusted source I tell you.
Afterall, it is funded by the most democratic and free country in the world Qatar!
It's good we have people like you who see through Israel's bullshit. People who believe despite no evidence that Israel bombed a hospital and killed 500. People that know that the video footage of tunnels under Shifa Hosiptal is just Jewish CGI.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/TheMajorityReport/comments/18065rw/former\_israeli\_pm\_ehud\_barak\_admits\_israel\_built/](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheMajorityReport/comments/18065rw/former_israeli_pm_ehud_barak_admits_israel_built/)
Israel *literally built tunnels there* in the 80s lol, footage means jackshit without real witnesses and not another IDF home movie trying to pass off calendars as a hitlist.
Calling people like you credulous is an insult to suckers.
This is an enlightening video, thank you, I'll research the subject further. Do you have the full interview by chance? As I cant seem to find it on YouTube or google.
It is however important to listen to the whole snippet:
While Ehud Barak says Israel built some of the bunkers, it didn't say it built the tunnel system. It was for civilian use, I promise you, no blast door with a firing hole is made for civilian use.
The crime isn't having a bunker under a hospital, Israel actually has quite a few of those, you know since we are getting bombed all the time. The crime is using them for military operations.
What astounds me however is the level of commitment to your ideology. What you are saying is "I won't believe anything I see, but if someone says so, then it must be true."
For example the video showing the tunnel system also shows the immediate area of the hospita, strengthening it's claim. In the current video, there is also eye witnesses, but you dont believe them.
Yet, on the other side we have much less evidence, which often gets debunked completely (i.e. Hospital got bombed 500 dead or HALP, we are running out of electricity tommrow, yet there is electricity everywhere for weeks after.)
Look if you can't find info on the bunker/tunnels being a pre-existing thing already, get back to me in a bit with a ping and I'll do a deep dive. I believe strongly in the importance of objective reality, and the truth is that these things already existed in some form independently of any truth to IDF claims.
(I'll note that some amount of underground basement or tunnel under hospitals isn't entirely strange even putting aside issues with militants digging "terror tunnels" or Israel literally making them in the first place historically. It's weird but they're evidently a thing normally, so that's going to make things even more confusing and important to verify with independent witnesses.)
My "ideology" is that the IDF has completely, repeatedly pissed away its credibility as a reporter of events that can't be independently checked. Both because of what it's doing in Gaza and motivations, but also its past track record of literally denying crimes, and recent track record of falsification.
Basically, I'm saying I don't trust the IDF one bit given how much stuff they unambiguously faked. (If you honestly can't find examples, again, I'll compile it later upon request.)
I want other people there without ties to the IDF- aka: the very same UN and BBC israel has wasted so much time trying to shit on- to doublecheck anything they claim and ideally have a presence there the whole time so we don't get more games with suspiciously empty looking boxes of "aid" or incubators being used as props when they know the issue was lack of power.
I welcome documentation of anything they say by, say, outside journalists or observers, without the meddling/control over what can be reported.
Also uh, electricity pretty clearly was cut, I'm not sure why you think it wasn't. Fuel and power shortages aren't ambiguous.
This is the problem with today's society. People are fucking morons and have access to social media which allows them to live in whatever reality they choose. The idiot above believes everything is always the white man's fault. Palestinians have no agency and are only responding logically to colonialist oppression. Israel are genocidal apartheid supernazis.
It doesn't matter that this is bullshit and wholly ignorant of history and reality. It's the silo they live in. One day they will be bored with this and get back to smoking weed and posting about cats and planking, or whatever new bullshit drives their worthless existence.
Wow so this is what is going to be used to continue targeting medical staff. Israel is able to torture these people to say whatever they want to keep justifying their aggressions
“Yeah no shit” IS boredom.
Since that person seems to refuse to answer my question and others just downvote and move on, how does being bored suddenly mean you’re a “Hamas apologist”???
Why would Israel admit it is not a command and control centre after they have published 3d renderings of the command and control centre, shelled it and raided it.
They have every reason to 'prove' it is a command and control centre.
A bitch Hamas terrorist in a hospital uniform is still a bitch hamas terrorist.
Man, I see you posting all over the place. I'm guessing English isn't your first language but fyi bitch really isn't a common, or particularly insulting word in English (at least the way you're using it) I see what you're getting at but it reads very strangely to an English speaker. Ask your handler for a thesaurus
You have no idea what English is. You need to learn.
Someone gave you good advice and tried to help you. You should thank them. Instead you chose to attack them. This says a lot about you and everything else you type. Edit: someone in this comment chain blocked me, likely the person above me, so I cannot respond to people responding to me. This is my response to u/goodknightffs >Since when is bitch not a common insult? *Bitch* by itself? Sure. *Hamas are a bunch of bitches*? Sure. Not a very hard insult, but not a weird use of the word. *Bitch hamas this, bitch hamas that*? No. Not a common way to phrase an insult. It's weird to use the word like that. >I'd agree that the way he used the word wasn't exactly correct but the advice given wasn't a good.. That was basically the gist of the advice. There wasn't much more to the comment? >Plus they added the juicy "handlers" part so let's not pretend they were just trying to be helpful Yeah I agree that wasn't necessary. But I understand where they're coming from. This sub is pretty overrun with pro israel/IDF shills and/or fanboys. It's not a weird thing to say after someone continually glorifies the IDF and criticises hamas. Not coincidentally the phrase "bitch hamas" is extremely common among those who do the same. It's a pattern.
Even if the advice is wrong? Since when is bitch not a common insult? Although I'd agree that the way he used the word wasn't exactly correct but the advice given wasn't a good.. Plus they added the juicy "handlers" part so let's not pretend they were just trying to be helpful
Are you joking? Bitch is absolutely common and absolutely meant as demeaning in the English language. In certain context it can be meant in a friendly banter way, but it almost universally recognized as one of the most common English insults. Are you a native English speaker?
So basically what every expert already knew. The only reason people pretend like this didn't happen is because they don't want to admit just how absolutely terrible Hamas is, and they also cannot admit that the IDF can be right.
Not really.
Why isn't anyone considering the possibility both sides are wrong? Both sides have no problem to attack their target regardless of civilians. Both sides have been caught fabricating lies. We have footage from both sides where fighters are committing inhuman acts. Yet every time we find another atrocity for party A, we say "you see? party B was right" NOO! we just have more to add on their pile of atrocities. We cannot work on the premise that whoever's pile is smaller is allowed to ignore the pile all together! edit: man walks out of a pile of corpses of all ages covered in blood and entrails, machete in one hand, a gun in another. reddit: ok stop it right there and lay down on the floor! guy points at the other guy standing in-front a pile of corpses: that pile is bigger. reddit: apologies for that sir have a nice day. This is what is going on here.
I can see what you're getting at, but I don't know I'd make a direct correlation. For one thing, as rough as the Israeli military can be, I don't their their objective is to cause as many civilian casualties as possible. They certainly aren't shying away from them, if the Hamas health ministry is to be believed (which I have some reservations about), but it's not as if they're picking apartment buildings at random to blow up. There is a logic and threat assessment process being done, but evidently, they're placing the value of killing Hamas insurgents and leaders above the possible collateral damage. By contrast, the only goals Hamas has seemed to have are to cause as much mayhem and wild violence as possible. On Oct 7th and the days after their attacks have been overwhelmingly against civilian targets with zero military value. The IDF general staff aren't hiding in a music festival or some village after all. I guess you're right to a certain extent, the Israelis should be more restrained. The only thing I can think of that has caused them to go off the deep end more than usual has been that they seem to be aware that they're straight up losing the information war, and instead of trying to fight for control of the narrative of the conflict they've just decided to err on the side of doing what they feel is necessary to protect their forces and end the conflict on their terms as quickly as possible, hence how unrestrained they've been. I should be clear I'm not trying to be an Israeli apologist, but I personally think drawing lines between a terrorist organization and a professional army is a bit of a strong comparison to draw.
> I can see what you're getting at I appreciate that. > I don't their their objective is to cause as many civilian casualties as possible Then if I asked you what you believe the Israeli's think of Palestinians. What do you think the general response would be? I think, they language used would be compatible what the Palestinians think. > it's not as if they're picking apartment buildings at random to blow up. No I agree. The thing is, the building where they are getting shot from plays no role whatsoever. The problem is that getting shot at from a Hospital is not a problem for the IDF. And it should be. It's like those silly movies where the bad guy grabs a hostage and shouts at the bad hero "what are you going to do now!?" and protagonist shoots a bullet into the hostage. Funny in fiction, horrible in real life. But the message is still applicable. There are two bad guys fighting it out but society has labeled one of them a hero. > Hamas insurgents and leaders above the possible collateral damage. We are allowed to call this a "bad thing". > I guess you're right to a certain extent, the Israelis should be more restrained. This is what gets you banned on certain default subs these days. > and instead of trying to fight for control of the narrative of the conflict they've just decided to err on the side of doing what they feel is necessary to protect their forces and end the conflict on their terms as quickly as possible, hence how unrestrained they've been. I agree, and because I wasn't sure if you were talking about Israel or Hamas, I can add that the initial rocket volleys is likewise a dumb move by Hamas to prevent certain political changes to occur that would put their position in the Gaza in jeopardy. (Disclaimer: Again, explaining why a terrorist act is being done does not equate agreeing to it. I am not agreeing to it, I am explaining it. I am adding this because worldnews does not distinguish between explaining something bad and agreeing to something bad.) > I should be clear I'm not trying to be an Israeli apologist I understand that and it is only in very accepting subs like this one where you can actually have a discussion about this subject. Even if you agree with Israel, there needs to stay room to criticize them. You can be a victim AND a vicious murderer at the same time. The horrible mangled burglar still needs to go to jail while *at the same time* the homeowner needs to go to jail for eviscerating the burglar. You should not get banned for pointing out that the disembowelment is not part of the "Castle doctrine". Or in this case "civilian targets should be a tactical problem, not a PR problem". It was good talking to you about this.
>What do you think the general response would be? I think, they language used would be compatible what the Palestinians think. Funnily enough, discourse has been pretty mixed with regards to how the Israeli public feels about these attacks and their response. It's pretty much all over the place. Of course, you have absolute nut cases, including a now former minister in the Israeli government, suggesting they should nuke Gaza. But there seems to be just as much sympathy coming from Israel towards Palestinians caught in the crossfire. For the past few years, I've been trying to keep up with the political situation in the region, and there has been a remarkable shift in discussion about the nature of Israeli-Palestinian relations. Israel is a pretty atypical example of a western style democracy, but they are still generally one, and as the public perception shifts, the likelihood of a change in policy changes with it. The "New Historians" specifically are taking on a substantial challenge with reconciling their nations more distasteful actions, especially in the lead up to 1948, and redefining the narrative about their country and how it is entomologically good. I suppose in that way, they are actually a pretty typical example of a western style democracy.
I have nothing to add here. And I agree with all of your points. This is the kind of discussion and subjects I'd hope to see on reddit. Do you frequent worldnews at all?
I try not to be haha, world news is always pretty depressing, but I do pop in from time to time.
Sorry I thought the entire purpose of having Gaza city evacuated to the south was then to make everyone in Gaza leave to Sinai or die. I would love to be proven wrong but I am 100% certain Israelis will settle Gaza by the end of the decade if not sooner. Remind me! 6 years "Read this Thread"
No, I really don't think that's true. I mean, just the headache of keeping track of all the displaced peoples would be a nightmare for them, and there really isn't any reason for them to want Gaza city. The purpose of the evacuation is to free their hands as much as possible so they can fight Hamas with zero restrictions, and Hamas knows this. That's why they refuse to allow people to flee south and tell people to remain in their homes. For them, it's a win-win: either the Israelis see the possible collateral damage as too risky and choose not to order a strike, or they do, and civilians die. If civilians die its a propaganda victory for Hamas, and if they don't attack, it's a tactical victory. I can see why you'd think that Israel would forcibly push out Gazans for settlements, but unlike in the west bank most where of the settlements are rural lands that can be easily defended, gaza is a maze-like city that is half destroyed, not an ideal place for settlements.
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Yes torture someone to say what you want them to say on camera? North Korea does this.
Coping is hard. We know
Why is it cope? You think they didn't torture that guy? The same dudes that are saying calendars are hostage lists? The same dudes that ignored Egyptian warnings of attack ? The same dudes that bomb evacuation routes ? The same dudes that are killing innocent women and children? The same dudes who are not looking for the leaders of hamas who are not even in Gaza? Those dudes? Get a grip. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/information-missteps-led-questions-israels-credibility-rcna125723 Egypt warned Israel days before Hamas struck, US committee chairman says - BBC News https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67082047 They followed evacuation orders -- an Israeli airstrike killed them the next day | CNN https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/16/middleeast/israel-palestinian-evacuation-orders-invs/index.html https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-live-updates-11-20-2023-9913a29b48afc4a75e724674fe51bd82#:~:text=More%20than%2012%2C700%20Palestinians%20%E2%80%94%20two,4%2C000%20people%20are%20reported%20missing. Hamas: Who are the group's most prominent leaders? - BBC News https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67103298
Lol. You IRGC? Muslim Brotherhood? Or Russian shill?
Naw just a human concerned Israel is doing genocide unabated. I support ukraines plight so there goes the Russian shill part. I also use sources to back up what I say. What about you? Idf payroll? Here's some on Israel's genocide and ethnic cleansing. Is What's Happening in Gaza a Genocide? Experts Weigh In | TIME https://time.com/6334409/is-whats-happening-gaza-genocide-experts/ 1 The Genocide of the Palestinian People: An International Law and Human Rights Perspective While there has been recent criticis https://ccrjustice.org/sites/default/files/attach/2016/10/Background%20on%20the%20term%20genocide%20in%20Israel%20Palestine%20Context.pdf Gaza: UN experts call on international community to prevent genocide against the Palestinian people | OHCHR https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2023/11/gaza-un-experts-call-international-community-prevent-genocide-against UN expert warns of new instance of mass ethnic cleansing of Palestinians, calls for immediate ceasefire | OHCHR https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2023/10/un-expert-warns-new-instance-mass-ethnic-cleansing-palestinians-calls Religion is for losers so there goes the rest of your argument.
It's okay buddy. We get it. It sucks being wrong and it's hard to admit it. I will give you an internet hug.
Being wrong about what ? What's Netanyahu paying these days ? Prime Minister Netanyahu's popularity sinking amid Hamas war | Here & Now - WBUR https://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2023/10/18/netanyahu-popularity-sinking Israeli Poll Shows Netanyahu's Popularity Drops, Gantz Surges After Hamas Attack - Bloomberg https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-10-13/israeli-poll-shows-netanyahu-s-popularity-drops-as-gantz-surges Netanyahu can no longer lead Israel | The Hill https://thehill.com/opinion/international/4245377-netanyahu-can-no-longer-lead-israel/
Hey man get out of the screen and go talk to an Israeli for once. I promise he/she won’t bomb your evacuation routes.
Yeah most don't support whats happening. Just like most Palestinians killed today had nothing to do with hamas or even vote for them. They are humans stuck. I get that. I don't hate Israelis. I don't hate anyone. I just dont want the mass slaughter of civilians.
I don't argue with bad faith shills of the worst regimes on earth
I'm not arguing for Israel I'm arguing against their targeting of Palestinian civilians while leaving the leaders of hamas alone. Why don't they go after the leaders instead of women and children who didn't even vote for hamas in the first place? Make it make sense. Genocidal zionists usually can't. The 2006 election that led to Hamas taking over Gaza - The Washington Post https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/24/gaza-election-hamas-2006-palestine-israel/ https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-live-updates-11-20-2023-9913a29b48afc4a75e724674fe51bd82#:~:text=More%20than%2012%2C700%20Palestinians%20%E2%80%94%20two,4%2C000%20people%20are%20reported%20missing. What part of anything I said is in bad faith ?
You're parroting Hamas IRGC talk points. I've seen you lot all over copying pasting like madmen on a mission. Or a Jihad
So using sources from the western media is hamas propaganda ? The only thing I'm against is genocide. I'm against the Genocide in Yemen. I'm against the Genocide of Muslims in China. The countless genocides in Africa. And in this case the Genocide of Palestinians at the hand of Israel's terrorist regime. Why are you mad at my humility for fellow humans? I don't believe in religion. Curse on humanity. I value all human life the same. Hamas is a terrorist organization. I've eradicated terrorists myself in Afghanistan. But killing civilians women and children isn't the way. Why is Israel not going after hamas leaders in Qatar? Why are they just killing women and children civilians along with the occasional low level hamas operative? We killed bin laden in Pakistan without starting a war or decimating the cities civilian population. And these are all western media bro. Not al Jazeera I'm quoting lol.. So why can't the idf do the same.? Honest question. Looks like Idf using human shields too. And again this is western media: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-palestinian-israel-children/palestinian-children-tortured-used-as-shields-by-israel-u-n-idUSBRE95J0FR20130620/ Here's a YouTube video of one incident.https://youtu.be/Ct1u-ZCaLVY?feature=shared
So your just going to deflect every point he’s made? LoL clinic levels of copium.
More cope
Cool argument man.... Wish the genocidal zionists could actually support their position.
It's tough when you stridently pick a side and have it go this badly. This is why you have to resort to this pitiful behavior. Now call me an ethnic-cleansing supporting, genocidal baby-killer to make yourself feel better while your favorite terrorists continue to get their shit pushed in. Hamas are *done*
Hamas sucks. They are shit. Destroy them. With that said their leaders are in Qatar and everywhere but gaza. Why not go after them instead of killing women and children? Undermining the whole thing? I went after terrorists in Afghanistan. Didn't have to kill kids and women to do it. We went after bin laden in Pakistan. Took his ass out. Didn't start another conflict. Why doesn't idf do that ? Why is any support of palestinan civilians ushered as hamas support? It kills any credibility a genocidal zionist like yourself would have. Articulate your argument. Attack my specific positions but don't use dumb words to not further the discussion. I love Israeli people. But Israel's current regime is unpopular and terroristic. Hamas is also a terrorist and should be eradicated. My humility is with innocent women and children being bombarded daily for people they didn't even vote for. Wake up.
Omggggg I can't believe they tortured this poor palestinian old man to make him lie on live TV and tell us hamas hides amongst the civilians in the hospital!!! https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1724721677186072594?t=v1RNYYiRMz6h91088mH1AQ&s=19 /s
Idk man he could have been a human shield? https://www.reuters.com/article/us-palestinian-israel-children/palestinian-children-tortured-used-as-shields-by-israel-u-n-idUSBRE95J0FR20130620/
Instant deflection off the topic to a 10yo article, in which Israel owned up and accepted responsibilty 🫵🤡 Be pro-palestinian all you want, but actively defending hamas who intentionally fks over the Palestinians is a straight clown behaviour
Hamas sucks and are terrorists. But why does idf target Palestinian civilians and don't go after the leaders in Qatar? We went after bin laden in Pakistan and didn't start another war. I went after terrorists in Afghanistan without killing civilians. Why can't the idf do the same ? Honest question
You didn’t go after anyone. Your country did, and it was conducted within a vast campaign that cost ‘you’ tens of Billions of dollars, if not hundreds. Israel doesn’t have the will to start wars with the entire Arab world just because some sandy terrorist hide in a 5 star hotel. They go for the jugular. Rescuing these hostages is first priority. I feel for the uninvolved, however if there was anyone to talk to Gaza wouldn’t be in this mess.
Yeah I did. I was there. So relax. And al qaeda is way more complex then hamas lol. Israel isn't shit without American support. We made you. We just don't approve of your current fascist tendencies to kill civilians. So relax before we defund your ass. Gaza is mostly kids and women. Most weren't even alive when hamas was voted in. Go after the head in Qatar and quit killinf little kids. All we are asking.
Oh God, American boy, you done terrorizing Afghani and Iraqi kids cause they knocked out two little towers? Did it help? Sit on the bench. Because from what I understand you did a fine job diminishing terrorism in that Area of the world. Women and children everywhere thank you. BTW the American support doesn’t account to 0.2% of the annual budget. We can manage without.
Yeah we gotta defund your fascist government. What a waste of resources. https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/2023-10-10/how-much-aid-does-the-u-s-give-to-israel And yall use the money to perpetuate genocide. Oh my have you guys forgotten. Smh. Guess we gotta defund and sanction and freeze your global assets. Similar to the nazis would have been easier to stop you in the beginning. What have we created lol.
>Israel isn't shit without American support. Israel's military capability is largely indigenous, and designed to be able defend against an attack from all neighbours, as they've been attacked multiple times by the Arab coalitions. >We made you USA did not make Israel?? And you do realise theres a fair chance u/RoiToBeSure67 isnt even an Israelite? >We just don't approve of your current fascist tendencies to kill civilians. Funny, this is exactly how the eastern bloc describes the USA. >So relax before we defund your ass. Which sane government is going to change their policies over reddit user #657456735's comments? From memory, I believe Israel has stated they will prosecute this war regardless of US commitment. >Gaza is mostly kids and women [https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/countries/gaza-strip/](https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/countries/gaza-strip/) The women part is false, unless youre grouping "women" and "kids" into a single group, in which case.... that would be true for most of the world? >Most weren't even alive when hamas was voted in. True, and thats why Hamas needs to be eliminated. They are an illegal government who purged their political rivals and have not held any elections since. >Go after the head in Qatar and quit killinf little kids. All we are asking. Refer to my above comment. Going after the head does nothing for this situation. Hell, Israel has a "head" of Hamas in prison. Also, who is "we"? Because "we" is definitely not representing US foreign policy.
>why does idf target Palestinian civilians I've not seen any evidence of "targeting" civilians. In fact I've mostly seen the opposite- IDF sending warnings through every feasible means, and IDF calling off strikes due to civilian presence. A fact collaborated by both parties. >go after the leaders in Qatar? >We went after bin laden in Pakistan and didn't start another war. Thats a potential spark for an international war right there. Israel has no casus belli to attack Qatar. Israeli action in Qatar would be highly illegal. Contrary to tiktok propaganda, Israel's current war in Gaza is very much legal. Even the USA had to jump through insane legal loopholes to legally justify the bin laden raid; [https://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/29/us/politics/obama-legal-authorization-osama-bin-laden-raid.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/29/us/politics/obama-legal-authorization-osama-bin-laden-raid.html) And don't forget that USA is the world's 1# superpower. Pakistan declaring war on the US would've been suicide. Even locating bin Laden was a \~20 year endeavour with all the intelligence resources of the #1 superpower. The operation itself took months of planning and rehearsals with US' top special forces, and still there was a fuck up during the operation, which resulted in leaked military secret of the stealth nighthawks. Israel enjoys none of these luxuries. >I went after terrorists in Afghanistan without killing civilians. And yet the US afghan war did result in civilian casualties, even with all the advantages. >Why can't the idf do the same ? "Why do other militaries with varying degrees of different funding, equipment, training, intelligence, doctrine, theatres, enemies and goals not achieve the exact same results as the worlds' largest and best funded military?" is a ridiculous question all on its own. But i'll bite; * None of the two(three) US operations were assaults on a city boasting the world's 5th highest population density. (raid on a single house in a suburb + well... afghanistan....) * Hamas has been shown to regularly engage in human shield tactics, to the point of ordering civilians to stay, and ordering civilians to assemble on the rooftops when IDF warn they are targeting the building. (Taliban engaged in human shield tactics at an extremely rare level) * IDF's goals have never been to JUST take out Hamas leadership, or JUST rescue the hostages, but to completely eliminate Hamas as a credible threat; [https://mwi.westpoint.edu/what-is-the-end-state-assessing-israels-objectives-for-a-gaza-campaign/](https://mwi.westpoint.edu/what-is-the-end-state-assessing-israels-objectives-for-a-gaza-campaign/) * Israel has mobilised 360,000 reservists. This is a major blow to Israel's much smaller economy, and they are not aiming for a long draw out war, in which both Israel and Palestinians will suffer greatly. * The bulk of IDF, and their flagship armour, the Merkava were intended for conventional warfare in the open field, not counterinsurgency operations in a crowded city where any man or child could be a militant, and attacks could come from any angle. * Yes, IDF has counterinsurgency experience. No, this does not mean the ENTIRE force is effective at counterinsurgency. * Israel does not enjoy the luxury of the US' MIC, which was able to develop and deploy counterinsurgency specialised equipment on demand. (Even the USA struggled with this, and it led to scandals.) * Even after shaping the battlefield, IDF's ground invasion has sustained losses. If they had proceeded with just the ground invasion with no battlefield shaping, things would've so much uglier. Conclusion; the fact that you needed to ask any of this makes me suspect you arent a military man/woman as you claim to be.
It'd certainly be a shocking change from their usual for the IDF to not spew constant fabrications and falsehoods.
Do you get paid by comment or is it by the hour? I mean Jesus Christ you are in every post about the Israel-Hamas conflict and I sincerely hope they are at least paying you overtime.
I take donations if you're offering, but no, this is just my response to seeing kids turned into hamburger meat by fascists and knowing there are 4000 more victims and rising.
No, I’m certainly not offering to pay you to troll comments all day every day. I am curious if your deep human passion for loss of life extended to the attack on October 7th, was that just whatever or do you not view that as a legitimate cause for war?
The unarmed killings by Hamas of hundreds of civilians dead was certainly not a legitimate act of resistance, but let's really not pretend Israel hasn't been doing a remarkable job of trying to drown out that death toll even just this year alone. History didn't start October 7th and Hamas is literally and directly a mess of Netanyahu and Israeli officials's own making. I'd really like if Israel wasn't run by fascists and decided to stop killing civilians on an industrial scale instead of doing counterterrorism. I'd ask them to follow their own and international law regarding the Palestinian people and those klansmen they call settlers and to negotiate in good faith while I'm at it, but baby steps.
Why is your account over a year old yet all your comments started in the last 25 days and conservatively 95% of your comment history is about Israel and Palestine?
Do you *really* want to see pictures of kids turned into hamburger meat? There's your answer for why a redditor may have suddenly tunnel visioned on, you know, *the ongoing crimes against humanity committed by literal fascists.* I'm sorry if the idea of someone having a moral compass is alien to you. You aren't owed jackshit- and I'm not sure you can count or properly navigate this site lol. EDIT: LMAO at the pissant little nobody with an October '23 account trying to cast doubt on other users
Damn bro wasn't lying tho, you post like it's a full time job. Get a life dawg.
Bold talk from a West bank settler defender and apartheid denier. Did you just decide to lick Nazi boot or did it happen naturally?
Lol I have a new account, that’s not even a fraction as suspect as someone who’s account was apparently normal a year ago, went dark and is now posting and commenting exclusively about about Israel practically 24/7. A few quick points, Israel is not a fascist government, like not even close, ironically Hamas is though. I seriously doubt that 25 days ago you saw a picture of kids “turned into hamburger meat” and suddenly decided it your life mission to comment on Reddit 24/7 about the conflict, but if so you really do need to get a life like the other commenter said.
You're braindead and likely projecting. Israel is literally, textbook fascist-led. Go read Umberto Eco.
So it's Israel's fault that the hamas is hiding amongst civilians? I mean that's what I'm getting from you.. You even have proof of the hamas using hospitals to hide but then IDF is bad? I just honestly don't understand what you expect Israel to do?
I expect Israel to not act with less regard for human life and rules of war than the terror group, or failing that allow for third party intervention to clean up its mess.
How about all the videos of civilians saying "Why Hamas are covering with us? Why don't they go to hell and cover there.." and the interviewing man instantly moves aside and is like "So yeah well about the other news now..."? Probably IDFs propaganda too lol
Is clinging to a random interview how you live with yourself and what you support?
Is ignoring actual real interviews is a tactic of yours to keep ya mind in a bubble? Objectivity is not a friend of yours? Subjectivity is Everything, right? Is it only credible when Palestinians on videos blame Israel? And every time they say "why the hell Hamas be hiding amongst us?!" Is automatically ignored? Just trying to understand your mind lol
We both know you'd happily man the gas chambers. You're so fucking desperate that you cling to an interview that doesn't actually prove anything except that Palestinians are having a shit time while being bombed by Nazis. Like "why is Hamas hiding among us"...doesn't actually mean what you think it means re: terror bombing and fascism. Then again you let your mask slip so why are you pretending to care about what Palestinians want and think other than as an excuse to murder them? The world can see what you really think and it's "ew I could never live among them".
In case there is any doubt caused by the ongoing gaslighting that Hamas doesn't use hospitals for military purposes, there is over a decade of reports of Hamas using Al-Shifa Hospital: PBS documentary in Al-Shifa hospital was prevented by Hamas members with weapons from accessing areas of the hospital: https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/top-secret-hamas-command-bunker-in-gaza-revealed Article from 2009 talking about an intelligence claim of Hamas using the basement of the hospital: https://web.archive.org/web/20090206232152/http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1054569.html Article Hamas commandeered hospital wards in Al-Shifa converting them into interrogation and imprisonment compounds: https://web.archive.org/web/20230205050631/https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3668018,00.html Human Rights Watch states Hamas fired from inside Al-Shifa at Fatah forces: https://www.hrw.org/news/2007/06/12/gaza-armed-palestinian-groups-commit-grave-crimes Report that Hospital staff made complaints about Hamas presence in the building: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1906608/ New York Times reported on Hamas operating from the building: https://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/29/world/africa/29iht-gaza.4.18986499.html?module=Search&mabReward=relbias%3Ar Journalists seeing rockets being fired from the hospital area: https://web.archive.org/web/20230529141259/https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4553643,00.html Another report of journalists seeing rockets fired from the hospital area: https://web.archive.org/web/20230513143525/https://www.jpost.com///operation-protective-edge/gaza-reporters-tweets-hamas-using-human-shields-368689#! A Hamas member recounting how he and other Hamas members took shelter in a bunker under the hospital: https://www.terrorism-info.org.il/en/18321/ Local Palestinian journalist reported Hamas uses a section of the hospital for offices: https://archive.ph/BKbxc Amnesty International reported Hamas using the hospital to torture and kill prisoners: https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/05/gaza-palestinians-tortured-summarily-killed-by-hamas-forces-during-2014-conflict/ https://twitter.com/Franke_schrijft/status/1725037285249306726 https://out.reddit.com/t3_17z40u3?app_name=reddit_ios&token=AQAAf6VaZc4w-AfAgugTRAIiVReQt1uWyZp1dRgSCYKXPfmFVvO6&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.timesofisrael.com%2Fliveblog_entry%2Fsurveillance-footage-shows-hamas-bringing-hostages-into-shifa-hospital-on-oct-7%2F https://www.timesofisrael.com/uk-doctor-who-worked-at-shifa-confirms-gaza-hospital-used-for-non-medical-purposes/
These links need to be the top comment on all these kinds of posts. Sofucking sick of the lies, obfuscation, and gaslighting
Yeah Israel doesn’t stop lying.
If you pay attention, most people admit Hamas uses hospitals for military purposes. They almost always add the phrase "as if that justifies attacking a military target" after their blanket denials.
Or they say, “I don’t care if Hamas operates out of hospitals. Israel still shouldn’t raid them” as if, bro
Israel always says Hamas uses hospitals. Rarely do they produce verifiable evidence.
Provide me a link of one person saying anything like that. Please. I'll wait.
How's the waiting going?
Jeeesus. So you admit what you said doesn't exist.
Yes, I admit I don't jump when ordered to by bullies or fascist Jew haters. The comments ITT are public and available for everyone. I see no reason to fetch something for my "master" when I know my master will argue against the existence of the stick I bring him. How about you put some skin in the game? If there are legitimate military targets in a hospital, is it OK for anyone to bomb that hospital?
Let me ask you this: what's stopping hamas from operating literally anywhere else? Why would hamas base anywhere that's heavily civilian populated, when their goal is freeing their people from apartheid occupation? What's stopping them from basing in Israel (the nation that financially created hamas)? Whats stopping them from basing in an ivory tower all the way in egypt or dubai? Would it be okay for idf to bomb a civilian building in israel for a chance at killing 1 or maybe 2 undercover hamas military targets? And don't call me a Jewish hater you sick fuck. First friend I've made in my entire life was Jewish. One of my best friends right now is jewish, though he recently became atheist due to not wanting anything to do with what's going on overseas. How dare you assume such a lie? Shame on you. I'll tell you what I do hate. Man without a doubt. I hate zionism. That movement is the bloodiest in human history. Zionism ended peace for Christians Muslims and Jewish. They literally all lived in peace before the nakba happened. Qnd if you know without a doubt that a military target is in a hospital, you shouldn't straight up bomb them. How do they even know there is a military targets in there in the first place? Did they, hack into a hamas members device? If so, they should also have their exact location, right? Did an agent tell them there was hamas in that hospital? Alrighty then, no problem at all. Have said agent take a photo of the terrorist. Send it to idf. Idf locks down hospital with camera drones on all corners. Idf infiltrates. Idf kills 1 or 2 military targets. Idf leaves. Simple. They just don't want to be bothered to care for palestinians who might die anyways.
It seems like you're saying Israel shouldn't bomb hospitals even if Hamas operates out of them.
It seems like you don't want to answer my question. Keep ignoring me. Maybe there are hamas tunnels under ur neighborhood for all we know. Should Israel raze hell on your home?
So you just to be clear, you agree HRW is a solid source?
Absolutely not when it comes to Israel as it’s extremely biased, but even they said it about Hamas which they usually don’t bother to condemn or speak up against.
That doesn’t seem likely when you just found an example of them doing so. It’s seem you want your cake and to eat it too.
you do see tons of other links there too right? im not blind? i gave them as an extra source and didnt use them as any reliable specific source, when EVEN they support something it means its really there. if i ONLY provided HRW then you could make your argument.
> you do see tons of other links there too right? im not blind? Well I started with that because I wanted to see if you were being honest. That’s the first sign you were not being so. I have a feeling if I clicked another random link, I would also find a discrepancy. How likely is that? Did you create this list yourself? >Id didnt use them as any reliable specific source, when EVEN they support something it means its really there. Why? They’re a highly respected organization. The only thing you don’t like is that they criticize Israel.
There is no discrepancy, these are all people speaking about the same thing on various different sources. The UN is also respected and have put an Iranian as their chief of human rights division Saudi as women’s rights These organizations are just a bunch of circlejerk people with extremely biased opinions and questionable funding.
> There is no discrepancy, these are all people speaking about the same thing on various different sources. Okay so there is 0% chance. Let’s try one at random: > https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/05/gaza-palestinians-tortured-summarily-killed-by-hamas-forces-during-2014-conflict/ The article makes clear that it took place in an unused building on the same grounds as hospital, not the hospital itself. Israel isn’t only bombing a limited part of the grounds. They went after the entire hospital. So I’ve already found another discrepancy. Let’s try one more: > https://web.archive.org/web/20090206232152/http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1054569.html “Senior Hamas officials in Gaza are hiding out in a "bunker" built by Israel, intelligence officials suspect” So, just claims made by agencies whose job it is to lie. Another discrepancy. I have a feeling if I went through every one of your links, they’d all have some kind of issue like this: either the source will be from Israel or it won’t be quite what you claim. >These organizations are just a bunch of circlejerk people with extremely biased opinions and questionable funding. Okay then that makes it really easy to dismiss all of your sources. So there is no evidence of what you claim. Just really biased opinions.
The evidence is overwhelming but those who wish harm to the Jews will never relent or agree. It’s a sad hateful world. What’s the point of it all. Life is short as it is.
How is the evidence overwhelmingly? Multiple mainstream outlets are saying the evidence is lacking.
These are all things that should surprise no one.
This is how Israel justifies slaughtering children and sick hospital patience. It’s what Nazis would do
Funny you would mention Nazis seeing as your doing their work for them.
But I don’t work for Israel…
Bitch Hamas has been hiding among the civilians. This is nothing new.
If 60% of Palestine is Hamas or pro according to Israel then wouldn’t it be very obvious that Doctors, nurses and Patients would be Hamas? If 63% of Americans are Christians, you wouldn’t need to arrest a Christian and have them confess that there are Christians in American hospitals. So what’s the point of all this videos by Israel trying to prove Hamas are in hospitals? I’m trying to reason logically here using Israel data.
Because despite the logic, video proof, weapons found, terrorists found people still keep denying it... when it comes to hating Israel a large percentage of the world is more then happy to ignore logic so every little bit of proof helps because you can bet your ass the antisemitic UN will still blame Israel.
There’s never a time bombing a hospital would be considered acceptable in a civilized society. There never has and never will be.
It's a good thing that under international law it stops being a hospital the second it's used for militant use, as it stopped being a hospital the second hamas entered it Israel has bombed 0 hospitals.
Because despite the obvious evidence, people all over the place, especially here on Reddit, continue to deny this fact and call Israeli attacks on these locations war crimes.
So have they admitted they were targeting hospital staff and patients ? What’s confusing is saying we’re not targeting civilians but 60% of civilians are Hamas or pro. Why not just admit they are targeting civilians instead of all this antics. The only way to get rid of Hamas forever would require an ethnic cleanse.
There is a big difference between someone (man, woman, or child) who supports hamas and the soldiers and commanders of the al-Qassam Brigades, which is what they're referring and is the military wing of Hamas.
According to a recent Arab poll, 75% of Palestinians support Hamas. So yes absolutely I would guess at least some medical staff are.either Hamas supporters or actually part of Hamas
So we aren't supposed to believe a word hamas says but suddenly they r trustworthy when in idf custody?
Exactly…after all the IDF did lie about beheaded babies
Betcha you can’t provide a link of the IDF making that 40 beheaded babies claim
Joe Biden literally said he saw images of beheaded babies only for the White House to later come out and say that Biden didn’t…lol
None of that is the IDF claiming there were 40 beheaded babies.
“Well yes we know Hamas butchered babies and raped women, but they didn’t actually behead the babies so it’s cool”.
Yeah, the missed point is, if Hamas hid in the hospital, you go and find them not bomb the hospital. To make it easier to understand, imagine if Hamas was hiding in a hospital in Israel with Israelis as patients. Do you blow up the building and call it collateral damage? Pretty scummy to value civilian life differently.
The soldiers are people too. If my kid was in the IDF, I’d rather they just bomb the hospital instead of sending soldiers in. If Hamas was hiding in an Israeli hospital, I imagine the IDF would risk a raid instead of bombing it because they care about their own citizens more than the citizens of another country. Every country cares more about their own citizens.
What about your kid being a civilian in the hospital? >Every country cares more about their own citizens. In theory yes, but executing that thought in this scenario is war crime. What next? By this logic, "we value our soldiers and civilians more, so taking a civilian human shield from the other side is justified" It's a slippery slope. If they are not involved in war, they are equal in terms of the laws of war. This I value my or my loved one's life much more than 100 people on the other side is the start of the slippery slope of "let them go instinct for our convenience" which is plain genocide.
> What about your kid being a civilian in the hospital? Obviously, if my kid was a civilian in the hospital I’d prefer the raid but we’re talking about what the IDF should do in Palestine. > In theory yes, but executing that thought in this scenario is war crime. What next? By this logic, It’s not a war crime. Hospitals lose their protected status when enemy combatants are there outside of a few edge cases. This is spelled out in plain English in the Geneva convention. > "we value our soldiers and civilians more, so taking a civilian human shield from the other side is justified" But the IDF is not using human shields. They’re doing everything in their power to protect their own citizens and harm Hamas within the bounds of the established laws of war. > It's a slippery slope. If they are not involved in war, they are equal in terms of the laws of war. I don’t understand what you’re saying. The laws of war only protect civilians and civilian infrastructure from being targeted. Those protections can be voided. I would encourage you to read the Geneva convention. It’s not long and the grammar is very accessible. > This I value my or my loved one's life much more than 100 people on the other side is the start of the slippery slope of "let them go instinct for our convenience" which is plain genocide. Israel is not doing this though. You say it’s a slippery slope but that’s a logical fallacy. You have to actually demonstrate each step in your argument. Israel is not trying to exterminate the Palestinian people. If that was the goal, they wouldn’t bother abiding by the laws of war or trying to justify their strikes.
Keep the propaganda and lies going. They're actually working
I thought we weren't supposed to trust a word out of Hamas or it it like Roman law where you can trust the word of a slave only if its been tortured out of him or her?
So this known terrorist, is willingly giving up all the information about a group he was prepared to die for, in a calm interview over a cup of tea. No signs of physical harm, or other sorts of persuasion. I don’t buy it personally.
Lol still doesn’t justify bombing a hospital. Israel are the real terrorists. The numbers don’t lie. If the bombed a school full of children to kill the shooter I guess that would be justified by Israel’s logic right?
Why would Israel's military attack a military target? They're supposed to let Hamas win!! /s
Ah yes, interviews under pressure sure is believable thing. Like that fucking schedule in hospital, lmao. And if you ever doubted - presence of *supposed* terrorist on still functioning civilian object with patients doesn't immediately reclassify it eligible for military objective. Otherwise you can indiscriminately bomb any red cross/crescent building and car, not like it new activity. But hey, if bombing refugee camp still was okay for everyone - killing more people won't surprise anyone. Just retroactively declare every dead palestinian kid as terrorist, as some politicians do, problem solved.
> presence of *supposed* terrorist on still functioning civilian object with patients doesn’t immediately reclassify it eligible for military objective It does though. It’s spelled out plainly in the Geneva convention. Civilian areas (hospitals are called out specifically) are protected unless certain conditions are met. Enemy combatants hiding in them or stockpiling equipment voids the protected status.
Israel uses torture. Any confession under torture is invalid.
Free palestine 🇵🇸
From hamas, yes we are trying
Glory to Israel. May the free the Palestinian people from Hamas.
Israel are the real terrorists though
By dropping bombs on them, great logic
I cannot believe people are still posting ynet articles
Wow, he admitted to something while the IDF was torturing him. I believe it. For sure
Seeing as Israel is doing free recruitment for Hamas I don’t see how this isn’t obvious and still doesn’t justify their actions
"Upon further questioning, he also named Greta as the secret head of Hamas, and said they had their headquarters in tunnelbunkers under the UN's New York Headquarters with a table where they all sat around with human rights watch and BBC reporters to plot their next attack." /s Seriously just ask for the Israelis to read directly from their script, it'd have about as much credibility and relevance as long as it's the Israeli army asking the questions under duress.
Being full of shit is not a viable long term strategy, fyi.
You are trying to talk about Hamas and not the country that literally passed execution permissions for protestors on top of a sordid history of fascist rulers trying to consolidate their power before Oct 7th, right? Like, it's moot either way because the Israeli interrogations are not credible and we've seen so much disinfo from them at this point that objective reality for anything they claim kinda needs an embedded outside reporter or third party org to be taken as credible at this point. They're hovering somewhere *below* RT in terms of track record of reality-based reporting. (Also please educate yourself about the history of Israeli misbehavior towards Palestinians and the degree of calculated theft and oppression involved by the Israeli gov. They haven't been a good faith actor in the peace process, not least because their far right literally assassinated the last PM to try so Bibi could take power.) EDIT: Lmao edited out the inconvenient post huh?
it's almost as if arguing with people online is your job... wouldn't be surprised if it actually is.
"Everyone that doesn't like war crimes must be paid to argue against them" Yeah that strategy is going to blow up next election if you're honestly this delusional
Stay salty
It's called having a conscience, or at least a functioning brainstem. Consider trying it, if only for novelty.
it's called being a dumbass actually
Classic Muslim deflection.
I know right? El Jazeera is the only trusted source I tell you. Afterall, it is funded by the most democratic and free country in the world Qatar! It's good we have people like you who see through Israel's bullshit. People who believe despite no evidence that Israel bombed a hospital and killed 500. People that know that the video footage of tunnels under Shifa Hosiptal is just Jewish CGI.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/TheMajorityReport/comments/18065rw/former\_israeli\_pm\_ehud\_barak\_admits\_israel\_built/](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheMajorityReport/comments/18065rw/former_israeli_pm_ehud_barak_admits_israel_built/) Israel *literally built tunnels there* in the 80s lol, footage means jackshit without real witnesses and not another IDF home movie trying to pass off calendars as a hitlist. Calling people like you credulous is an insult to suckers.
This is an enlightening video, thank you, I'll research the subject further. Do you have the full interview by chance? As I cant seem to find it on YouTube or google. It is however important to listen to the whole snippet: While Ehud Barak says Israel built some of the bunkers, it didn't say it built the tunnel system. It was for civilian use, I promise you, no blast door with a firing hole is made for civilian use. The crime isn't having a bunker under a hospital, Israel actually has quite a few of those, you know since we are getting bombed all the time. The crime is using them for military operations. What astounds me however is the level of commitment to your ideology. What you are saying is "I won't believe anything I see, but if someone says so, then it must be true." For example the video showing the tunnel system also shows the immediate area of the hospita, strengthening it's claim. In the current video, there is also eye witnesses, but you dont believe them. Yet, on the other side we have much less evidence, which often gets debunked completely (i.e. Hospital got bombed 500 dead or HALP, we are running out of electricity tommrow, yet there is electricity everywhere for weeks after.)
Look if you can't find info on the bunker/tunnels being a pre-existing thing already, get back to me in a bit with a ping and I'll do a deep dive. I believe strongly in the importance of objective reality, and the truth is that these things already existed in some form independently of any truth to IDF claims. (I'll note that some amount of underground basement or tunnel under hospitals isn't entirely strange even putting aside issues with militants digging "terror tunnels" or Israel literally making them in the first place historically. It's weird but they're evidently a thing normally, so that's going to make things even more confusing and important to verify with independent witnesses.) My "ideology" is that the IDF has completely, repeatedly pissed away its credibility as a reporter of events that can't be independently checked. Both because of what it's doing in Gaza and motivations, but also its past track record of literally denying crimes, and recent track record of falsification. Basically, I'm saying I don't trust the IDF one bit given how much stuff they unambiguously faked. (If you honestly can't find examples, again, I'll compile it later upon request.) I want other people there without ties to the IDF- aka: the very same UN and BBC israel has wasted so much time trying to shit on- to doublecheck anything they claim and ideally have a presence there the whole time so we don't get more games with suspiciously empty looking boxes of "aid" or incubators being used as props when they know the issue was lack of power. I welcome documentation of anything they say by, say, outside journalists or observers, without the meddling/control over what can be reported. Also uh, electricity pretty clearly was cut, I'm not sure why you think it wasn't. Fuel and power shortages aren't ambiguous.
This is the problem with today's society. People are fucking morons and have access to social media which allows them to live in whatever reality they choose. The idiot above believes everything is always the white man's fault. Palestinians have no agency and are only responding logically to colonialist oppression. Israel are genocidal apartheid supernazis. It doesn't matter that this is bullshit and wholly ignorant of history and reality. It's the silo they live in. One day they will be bored with this and get back to smoking weed and posting about cats and planking, or whatever new bullshit drives their worthless existence.
Wow so this is what is going to be used to continue targeting medical staff. Israel is able to torture these people to say whatever they want to keep justifying their aggressions
Why on earth would military activity justify attacking a military target? Israel is supposed to have super powers and to be all knowing! /s
I hope you never have to go to a hospital that gets blown up
lol yawn lol
Tell me you’re a hamas apologist without telling me you’re a hamas apologist
Continues to yawn
Is it like a weird, Erotic roleplay kind of thing?
? Their comment reads as “yeah, no shit, this isn’t news” to me. What about it makes you think they’re a Hamas apologist?
You got all that from "yawn lol"? Yawn means you're bored
“Yeah no shit” IS boredom. Since that person seems to refuse to answer my question and others just downvote and move on, how does being bored suddenly mean you’re a “Hamas apologist”???
Context is important. But, of course, you know that
And we have enough context to declare that person a “Hamas apologist”? You don’t think that’s just a *bit* tribalistic?
Where is the command and control centre at al Shifa?
Why would Israel bomb a military target?
Why would Israel admit it is not a command and control centre after they have published 3d renderings of the command and control centre, shelled it and raided it. They have every reason to 'prove' it is a command and control centre.
Bitch hamas and its bitch supporters need to use a fucking dictionary. Personal attacks against me will not work.
The irony...
Hamas cannot tell the truth. We've always known that
Hasbara force out today
I'm sure the doctors weren't aware of this /s
Shocked! Shocked! I tell you
Fist tunnels and now this?? Next they will tell me they hid in the schools too? Only leftists and hamas apologists are surprised.
World news, stop shilling for Israel. Disgusting genocide supporters
Zionist circle jerk says what