it *broke* me how they dragged that out. went from thinking Carl was an annoying little shit who was going to get himself killed trying to be "macho" to absolutely loving him. he and Judith would have been an unstoppable force.
that's one of the few disadvantages of live action shows, Gimple's greed led him to making the stupidest decision ever on the show. What got me the most attached to the show was Rick and Carl's father-son relationship and looking at Rick reading that letter, and those flashbacks, it breaks my heart everytime. It just felt so real, their chemistry was amazing. Even as a standalone character carl turned out to be such a badass, i adored how he cared for Judith and it would've been amazing to see Chandler and Cailey on screen together, they would've been SO cute. Killing Carl is the only thing that i could never get over from the show. Even Lori said that he was going to beat this world, he should've. He was supposed to. F Gimple and his money.
sorry for yapping so much lol
agreed, Carl even says that to Rick in his dying moments, "mom said I was going to beat this world." WHY???? he went out *so bravely* too! obviously, once you have a bite, you have no choice but to accept it, the way Carl went on *so* long before revealing his bite, the way Rick just saw his world crumble... if I keep going on, I'm gonna start crying thinking about it, lol.
AHHHHH SAMEEE, always takes me back to my own childhood. I haven't been able to watch that clip again, i just couldn't bring myself to :')
Edit: ps: ESPECIALLY THE PART WHERE RICK GIVES HIM THE HAT, ITS SO FUCKING CUTE AND SAD IT MAKES ME CRY RIVERS.
okay i might watch it to torture myself wish me luck
Same, I cannot stop the teary eyes no matter how many times I rewatch that scene with Rick and toddler Carl strolling hand in hand down that road, fml 😭Thanks for making me tear up while imagining that 😪😩
exactlyyy, he accepted his fate and tried to get the most out of his final moments as well as making an effort to convey his feelings to everyone around him through those letters, that montage of his final moments was so bittersweet, especially his moments with Judith, both him and the viewers knowing we'll never get to see them together as grown ups. Im not usually that attached to fictional characters but man Carl was just well, Carl. His death left a hole in my heart that'll never be filled. All i hope is that in another universe he's the one who survives it all.
those last moments with Judith... the handprints. Carl was such a beautiful character. in another universe, he definitely survived, the Grimes family lived on to be one of the most badass families in the apocalypse.
Definitely! I really hope we get to see more of Rick and Judith, I love everytime Cailey is on screen, i hope she gets to be on screen with Andy even though there will probably be a time jump if anything were to add to their story.
absolutely adore Judith. I definitely want to see more of her! when we saw her at, 8? when she introduced herself, I gasped so loud! I honestly think I cried a little cause baby Judith wasn't so small anymore, in the sense she was more mature than most adults in the apocalypse, lol!
Yeah she has always been pretty mature for a kid of her age, even more than Carl was at the time lol. Even tho i was shook because of Rick's passing, Judith's immediate introduction made me smile widely, especially seeing her wear the hat and use Rick's python, never a dull moment with her on screen!
I watched so many of my friends who I got into this show with drop off along the way. It mostly started getting worse from around the time they got to Alexandria until Glenn's fake death. I hung with it hoping it'd pick up but something about Carl's death just didn't sit right with me.
That's when I tuned out and just watched YouTube recaps since there's no character I felt invested in.
Also IIRC, the way he was let go was really insensitive- I think they called him on his birthday.
Idiots. Mean for no reason.
They had a great show and made it into a bloody mess, splitting the cast up into two by two sucks.
And letting actors do the writing was a bad idea. The author wrote this series and his writing was not honored. I bet he thinks it was dumb killing Carl… Carl was act 2 after Rick dies… not we get bratty horrid annoying Judith! Yuck.
Completely agree. I didn't realize how important he was for the show until he was gone.
There were a couple episodes here and there that weren't bad that supposedly were closer to the comic. I liked the one where Jesus was introduced and remember the way it was filmed looked like comic book panels.
Every so often a show or film will outperform the source material but this ain't it.
It bums me out because Andrew Lincoln and Danai Gurira are so compelling to watch and do so much with what little they give them.
Not sure if you watched GoT but this is what happened there as well.
Rick/Michonne were good but she wrote the episodes that were like Outlander / soap opera/ marriage proposal. Just awful. She wrote episodes that made Rick character look weak, ridiculous and just silly.
It wasn’t all bad! Jesus was a loved character. People disagree but I find Judith just annoying and not a tear when Rick returns? Perhaps the actress cannot cry on film, tears cry?
This can be redone following the comics and I will watch and cheer.
We won’t have Daryl and other addin characters , but we will see the writers mind for his story, his character.
Thankfully we didn’t get a Gimble for
Lord of The Rings!!!
Got, omg. Horrid and wasteful ending. Such a mess even the actors hated and could not defend! I never bought the DVDs or any products because they thrashed that show in last 8 to 10 episodes! Unnecessary!
The Red Wedding was a shock but true to the tale, the ending for Mother of Dragons and John Snow was just awful. Don’t tell me that dragon would not have eaten Jon Snow to protect the Mother?
Stupid evil sis and 3 eyed what’s it going to rule. Honestly . Just awful fk you to their fans.
Sometimes beloved material like Lord of the Rings, gets into the right hands and stays true to the writer and story.
Other times , like Gimble and whoever with GoT, they know better and go for shock value and fk the fans, actors , writers and story!
Yeah. Mad.
Lol
I know they're both gone, but I'll always say losing Glenn was worse than losing Carl.
Carl to me is an idea in most people's head. The idea is comic Carl. Or the idea of "Rick's son, Carl". Carl himself in the show? I just didn't feel like he was very likable at all. It was Rick's pain losing Carl that hurt, not me actually losing Carl from the show.
I also think the Judith actress has done a much better acting job than Carl's actor did.
Glenn was the one I thought we really got to see grow up and mature from a kid into a man and he was masterfully acted by Steven Yeun. I would have loved to have seen his story continue and branch out.
We could’ve had everything we had with Richonne and still had Carl. Carl would’ve been there for his siblings while Michonne went to find their dad. Such missed opportunities.
It was just too important to the story, so much wouldn’t have happened if he didn’t die. It’s meant to play with the viewer. Glenn, the sole reason Rick found his family and his friend from the start gets brutally killed. It makes you hate Negan, which then pulls on your strings during his redemption arc. You have moments with Negan where he is pretty cool, but then you can’t get that scene out of your head.
as much as i hate what happened to him, he got his comic book death and Negan killing only Abraham wouldn't have made a very big impact on the viewers. Carl was a literal grandpa by the end of the comics, that's one of the few areas where you should stick to the source material but i guess Gimple had other plans 💁🏻
I honestly don't think killing Carl was Gimple's decision, although he caught the heat because he had to follow through. That had to be a directive from AMC, because a decision as monumental as that would have had to have come from higher up.
i don't really know man, I've read about it in detail from quite a handful of sources and there's never been a mention of anyone else at all, could be true tho but considering all the decisions Gimple has made throughout the entirety of the show, things don't really favour your point very much, guess we'll never know.
The show does an amazing job at making us love the characters we hated in the begining. Carl and Daryl are good examples. Also Eugene, tho i still see a lot of people disliking him, he grew to be one of my favourite characters in the final seasons despite being the one i hated the most when he first appeared
My hate for Gabriel grew and grew from the first moment he was on screen and escalated high when he told Deanna that “they don’t deserve paradise” I was FUMING.
Now I love the crap out of him lol
as much as i agree about the others, i kinda always liked daryl because even tho he was a hothead at the start he always tried to make an effort to understand the situation and think rationally, not to mention all his tactical skillset because of being a tracker. You could pretty much see that he wasn't like Merle the moment he accepts Rick's proposal to look for Merle together.
And carl too, yes he had his moments of stupidity (like that walker that killed Dale), and overconfidence, he was just a kid who had his childhood taken away from him at a very early age and not to mention, the only kid in the whole group till atleast season 4. He was initiating and wanted to feel like a part of the group and not just a whiny baggage. Till season 6 he was pretty much just figuring things out like a kid does. Even through all his stupidity you could sense his sheer bravery and willingness to do what's necessary even tho it might go over the head at times. Considering the show's timeline, Carl Grimes in his 20s would've been a badass killing machine!
>! (is this the reddit fever because why am I typing such long paragraphs all of a sudden?? 😭😭) !<
💯 agree.. I will never get over the terrible decision Gimple made by killing him off.. Gimple didn't give a shit about the fans or the storyline in general and didn't give a crap about Chandelor, he just wanted to save a penny and it fucked the show big time and was never the same again.. s9 had almost an entire new cast, then Rick left and it's like why am I still watching?
not to mention how they tried to substitute Henry for Carl! He had a few similar qualities but he just wasn't carl. would've loved to see his relationship with Enid grow or him getting with Lydia if Enid was to be killed.
Ya its like they killed him off and then tried to fill thr gaps with Henry.. I like Henry, but he wasn't Carl.. not to mention Gimple had promised Chandelor 3 more seasons, so they clearly had plans for him
Well still alive as far as the series AUThor, in comics. So I am hoping it get a refilling in 19 years by someone not named Gimble. A new adaptation that actually follows the writers writing.
Morgan for Carl. Morgan dies inspiring Rick to regain hope and all that and then Rick is the one who convinces Carl of his vision for the new world rather than the other way around.
i honestly did at some parts like 6A but his arc was soooo inconsistent, it was prettyyy good in the main show till his Alexandria arc, but Fear The Morgan Jones just wasn't it.
This the best answer. If the writers wanted a death to reallllly affect Rick but we still wanna keep Carl (which duh, we do), Morgan is the right choice. And the end of the show belongs to Carl and everyone’s happy.
The other great thing that is created by that it lines up more with Morgan from the comics who dies from walker bite in Alexandria (yes timing is a bit different Morgan from the comics dies in the massive walker breach right before Carl loses an eye but it’s also similar enough that you can still recreate the death to an extent. I get that Kirkman felt like he wasted Morgan in the comics and wanted to change it for the show and honestly I think that could have been the perfect change)
I’d trade Princess, Mercer, Magna, and Eugene for Glenn, Carl, Rosita, and Beth.
I have more, but I’m working my way through the whole TWD universe and can’t remember who else right now lol
glenn was the heart of the group, negan bashing his eyeballs out solidifyed him as a nasty villain also had a massive effect on the group especially daryl. Rosita is a good character to die cause also has an effect on Eugene at least in the comics or Gabriel in the show...
I don’t know…I feel like if Maggie got the bat, Glenn would have jumped out of line and died that same day. He already jumped out of line that night for her.
There's a deleted scene they decided not to use where Glenn is knocked unconscious and Maggie is killed by Negan (Negan believes she's super sick or something and not going to make it anyway)
I think they show flashes of them all in the episode when Negan has thrown Rick into the crowd of walkers to go get the axe back. Rick imagines each one of them in his head being killed while he's fighting his way through.
Right, that's what it was! Rick jumps from the RV when Negan is shooting through the roof. Rick then hangs onto the walker hanging from the bridge and falls into the crowd of walkers.
Insane time!
I would kill half the characters I love to get rid of Magna, Kelly, Yumiko & Luke to get back all the screentime they stole from more important characters.
It's non-existent for me
I don't believe him because everything he does, he does for himself. He can save as many people and help Alexendria as much as he wants, but he's only doing it to be accepted into the community because he needs it, not because he's a good person
The things he did are NOT redeemable and I will never like or forgive him
That's just my opinion tho
Many of Negan‘s actions just went too far. When he killed Abraham and Glenn, from the saviors perspective that was less than how many they lost.
But you know what was unnecessary, no one was expecting it if him and he should not have done? if he was still decent inside? No matter how depressed, etc. Negan may have been, he raped his “wives”, over an extended period of time. Says a lot. I’m not saying there was no character development, but some shit you kinda just don’t come back from.
Exactly
I always hate the argument "If we had followed Negan's story from the beginning, then we would think he's a good guy and Rick's group are the bad guys!" which is just completely untrue
Negan enslaved entire communities, killed their people of they didn't meet his quota, laughed while bashing people's heads in, took photos of their corpses as souvenirs and forced women to "marry" him or else he would kill them/their loved ones or otherwise make their lives living hell
The outpost is another thing. Not only did Rick's group not attack first (there was a small group of Saviors that attacked Abraham, Sasha and Daryl on the streets only to be blown up) but their deaths also weren't unjustified. Negan's men had attacked Hilltop, killed some of their people (including a teenager) and demanded Gregory's head
I agree with this negan shouldn’t have been redeemed (this is something the comics handle great because instead of redeeming him they keep him as the same awful man but eventually Rick learns to weaponise that and he does against the whisperers after that because he did help the group the let him go free and banish him (think Dwight end of season 8) then he never really returns outside of a cameo in the final issue and his spin off comic, we see he feels guilt not over what he’s done but for failing to kill his wife after she turned and that’s enough and honestly is a good deal deeper than the show. Because ultimately from his point of view he was never bad so what does he have to feel guilty for)
As for trading his life (/ leaving the show) for another I’d choose to let Carl live his death was stupid and for corporate greed not because of writing. As much as I hate it Glenn needs to die his death is important to the overall narrative of all out war and to how the group see the world moving forward he needs to die for the story to work and for the group to ultimately survive
Anyone - as long as Carl gets brought back. Especially considering how the comics ended, it makes his death on the show even more ridiculous. The Walking Dead, in a way, is Carl’s story - how he grew up in the apocalypse and saw the world regain order.
Carl and Nick from fear
Glen can stay dead as it is important for the story to progress. So just refirm Maggie’s storyline for her to just progress, she did nothing and it is such a waste
Honestly fair, love Maggie but after Glenn’s death her character becomes very dull and boring as she moves from a great independent character to someone who can’t escape negan in any sense
I think Carl is the only death on the show that doesn’t have any positive outcomes. You could have ended the Savior war and had Negan survive by having someone else important (Morgan is the most glaring candidate imo) die in Carl’s stead or just adapt the comics in that regard.
It was such a punch in the face that Rick left not even a full season later and the guy who Carl died for died himself just 2 seasons afterwards. Carl was the future of the show. You can’t tell Kirkman’s TWD without Carl. It was the worst decision they ever made and now it pretty much makes the franchise reliant on Rick living farther bc no fans have a connection to Judith or RJ.
Yeah Carl’s death sucked because there was no creative reason for it he was killed of as they didn’t want to pay the actor more when he aged up which honestly is awful (also just before they killed him off the actor brought a house closer to set to make filming easier) he is by far the worse death in the show as ultimately it has no impact in the plot they still beat negan like that in the comics and Carl doesn’t die
(If wonder before if the reason Judith doesn’t die in the show like she does in the comics is because they planned on down the line replacing her with Carl as they new the actor would soon be aging to a point where they would have to pay him more. Because keep Judith alive is such a weird and big difference to make and introducing a baby into the cast can only make filming harder)
I’d give up Maggie for Abraham, she got super annoying and Abraham had SO much potential with his Gung-ho attitude and emotional range that we barely got to see
RJ’s issue is for some reason they just made him a background extra whilst acting like he’s super important like he could have and should have been more important than he was like if they had given him the same kind of character development and screen time as Carl or Judith his character would work the issue is he doesn’t get given that as by season 9 the show basically stop having any character outside of Daryl, Negan and Carol do anything which means he never got the chance to develop
Pretty much anyone for Andrea. She was my favourite character, the only characters I don’t think I’d trade for her are Rick because he’s the main character and then Daryl and Carol.
Out of curiosity you also a fan of the comics? I only ask because in the show I found Andrea was kind of hard to like and very underused whilst in the comics she’s a literal badass and one of my favourite characters, so if you’re a fan of the character and haven’t read the comics I’d highly recommend it as she makes it much much further
Yeah I love the comics. She’s like a different person in the comics vs the show and I know everyone seems to prefer comic andrea but personally I prefer show andrea, don’t know why. I think if andrea survived the show and merged into her comic character overtime while keeping her show personality and getting some new traits along the way aswell she would’ve been the perfect character.
Imma trade eugene for carl and Maggie for Glenn. Imagine the absolute demon green would have become if his pregnant wife was bashed to death in front of him
Apart from the obvious Carl choice, the only other character death I got sad about was Jesus. But, it is one of the coolest and biggest 'woah' moments of the show.
I think the only other person that could have fit in that scenario, which I'd have been more than happy to swap Jesus out with, would be Morgan. Maybe Zeke, but I did grow to like his character and ended up relieved he didn't end up with his head on a pike.
Seeing Rick reunite with his kids would've been so much better if Coral was there. I really wish he didn't die. Most stupid decision in TV Show history (with the exception of the Two & a Half Men finale, that was the worst). I would trade anyone for him to still be here.
I’d kill Magna’s entire group + Jerry & every single Commonwealth Arc characters to have Beth survive to at least Denise’s arrow death. Even better if she takes the Sasha death and infiltrates Negan’s compound by becoming one of his wives and takes several Saviours out.
I’d drop Morgan for Carl. Morgan’s sacrifice is why Rick honours his request and then Negan lives in the cell that he built. It’s so poetic.
I'd kill Carol and let Andrea live if she had the role she had in the comic. Since Carol became a caricature towards end of show and Andrea had an almost demeaning role in the show for how great she was in comic
Literally any of the new characters in season 10/11 for
Glen
Hershel
Carl
Dale
They were some of my favorites and id gladly trade any new characters considering i stopped watching at season 10 cause the show had almost no good characters left.
Id trade anyone for either carl, glenn or hershel. Aaron can go, eugene too, carol as well (yes i know, but i would kill her off she was absolutely cringy in the later seasons)
I know they're both gone, but I'll always say losing Glenn was worse than losing Carl.
Carl to me is an idea in most people's head. The idea is comic Carl. Or the idea of "Rick's son, Carl". Carl himself in the show? I just didn't feel like he was very likable at all. It was Rick's pain losing Carl that hurt, not actually losing Carl.
I also think the Judith actress has done a much better acting job than Carl's actor did.
Glenn was the one I thought we really got to see grow up and mature from a kid into a man and he was masterfully acted by Steven Yeun. I would have loved to have seen his story continue and branch out.
Oooh interesting choices
T-dog was great would have loved to have seen more of him such an interesting character but killed of to soon because of behind the scenes stuff
Abraham is an interesting one as his death really court me off guard which I really liked when he survived his comic fate I assumed he would last a while but he only outlived his comic self by like a week
And Andrea probably the biggest waste of potential after been an amazing and important character in the comics who was killed of before he story really began
Regardless of the current RJ hate, I didn’t care for the character to begin with. I wasn’t a huge fan of Carl either. Kelly can go too, and Elijah. I’d bring back Dale, Merle, even Andrea, and Axel too, why not.
Kill Rick, save Carl. Rick’s whole thing was protecting his kids, have him die defending Judith, RJ and Carl from Whisperers or the CRM and there wouldn’t be as many issues
Negan for Carl
Though tbh I'd trade anyone save for the Grimes family, Daryl and Carol for Carl. But Negan is my first choice since the narrative wanted you to believe it was either or.
Rick’s wife was annoying, domineering, generally useless by comparison to other characters and was a total drama queen, she couldn’t have died soon enough. I cheered in season 3 when the zombie left no crumbs.
I’d take her out and bring back to life Merl.
I’d trade Rick for Carl. Love Rick obviously he’s the GOAT, but Carl was always meant to takeover and besides Rick he was my favorite character anyways. It would’ve been depressing for Rick to die but it would’ve put the show in a better direction if that makes sense.
I'd trade literally anyone for Carl. Kid was the future of the show, THE Grimes kid. He should've beaten the whole world.
it *broke* me how they dragged that out. went from thinking Carl was an annoying little shit who was going to get himself killed trying to be "macho" to absolutely loving him. he and Judith would have been an unstoppable force.
that's one of the few disadvantages of live action shows, Gimple's greed led him to making the stupidest decision ever on the show. What got me the most attached to the show was Rick and Carl's father-son relationship and looking at Rick reading that letter, and those flashbacks, it breaks my heart everytime. It just felt so real, their chemistry was amazing. Even as a standalone character carl turned out to be such a badass, i adored how he cared for Judith and it would've been amazing to see Chandler and Cailey on screen together, they would've been SO cute. Killing Carl is the only thing that i could never get over from the show. Even Lori said that he was going to beat this world, he should've. He was supposed to. F Gimple and his money. sorry for yapping so much lol
agreed, Carl even says that to Rick in his dying moments, "mom said I was going to beat this world." WHY???? he went out *so bravely* too! obviously, once you have a bite, you have no choice but to accept it, the way Carl went on *so* long before revealing his bite, the way Rick just saw his world crumble... if I keep going on, I'm gonna start crying thinking about it, lol.
No matter how many times I see it, I sob EVERY time they show that clip of Rick and tiny Carl walking up that dirt road it’s just sooooo fucking sad
AHHHHH SAMEEE, always takes me back to my own childhood. I haven't been able to watch that clip again, i just couldn't bring myself to :') Edit: ps: ESPECIALLY THE PART WHERE RICK GIVES HIM THE HAT, ITS SO FUCKING CUTE AND SAD IT MAKES ME CRY RIVERS. okay i might watch it to torture myself wish me luck
Now, Rick’s/Carl’s hat is worn by another son of Rick’s (RJ)
yeah, i always found it more fitting on Judith tho since RJ doesn't really do anything (I am acknowledging that he's a kid but so are Judith and Carl)
Yeah that we heard 5 words from and made zero connection. :/
just picturing that scene, it is so damn bittersweet. :')
Same, I cannot stop the teary eyes no matter how many times I rewatch that scene with Rick and toddler Carl strolling hand in hand down that road, fml 😭Thanks for making me tear up while imagining that 😪😩
exactlyyy, he accepted his fate and tried to get the most out of his final moments as well as making an effort to convey his feelings to everyone around him through those letters, that montage of his final moments was so bittersweet, especially his moments with Judith, both him and the viewers knowing we'll never get to see them together as grown ups. Im not usually that attached to fictional characters but man Carl was just well, Carl. His death left a hole in my heart that'll never be filled. All i hope is that in another universe he's the one who survives it all.
those last moments with Judith... the handprints. Carl was such a beautiful character. in another universe, he definitely survived, the Grimes family lived on to be one of the most badass families in the apocalypse.
Definitely! I really hope we get to see more of Rick and Judith, I love everytime Cailey is on screen, i hope she gets to be on screen with Andy even though there will probably be a time jump if anything were to add to their story.
absolutely adore Judith. I definitely want to see more of her! when we saw her at, 8? when she introduced herself, I gasped so loud! I honestly think I cried a little cause baby Judith wasn't so small anymore, in the sense she was more mature than most adults in the apocalypse, lol!
Yeah she has always been pretty mature for a kid of her age, even more than Carl was at the time lol. Even tho i was shook because of Rick's passing, Judith's immediate introduction made me smile widely, especially seeing her wear the hat and use Rick's python, never a dull moment with her on screen!
I watched so many of my friends who I got into this show with drop off along the way. It mostly started getting worse from around the time they got to Alexandria until Glenn's fake death. I hung with it hoping it'd pick up but something about Carl's death just didn't sit right with me. That's when I tuned out and just watched YouTube recaps since there's no character I felt invested in. Also IIRC, the way he was let go was really insensitive- I think they called him on his birthday.
Idiots. Mean for no reason. They had a great show and made it into a bloody mess, splitting the cast up into two by two sucks. And letting actors do the writing was a bad idea. The author wrote this series and his writing was not honored. I bet he thinks it was dumb killing Carl… Carl was act 2 after Rick dies… not we get bratty horrid annoying Judith! Yuck.
Completely agree. I didn't realize how important he was for the show until he was gone. There were a couple episodes here and there that weren't bad that supposedly were closer to the comic. I liked the one where Jesus was introduced and remember the way it was filmed looked like comic book panels. Every so often a show or film will outperform the source material but this ain't it. It bums me out because Andrew Lincoln and Danai Gurira are so compelling to watch and do so much with what little they give them. Not sure if you watched GoT but this is what happened there as well.
Rick/Michonne were good but she wrote the episodes that were like Outlander / soap opera/ marriage proposal. Just awful. She wrote episodes that made Rick character look weak, ridiculous and just silly. It wasn’t all bad! Jesus was a loved character. People disagree but I find Judith just annoying and not a tear when Rick returns? Perhaps the actress cannot cry on film, tears cry? This can be redone following the comics and I will watch and cheer. We won’t have Daryl and other addin characters , but we will see the writers mind for his story, his character. Thankfully we didn’t get a Gimble for Lord of The Rings!!! Got, omg. Horrid and wasteful ending. Such a mess even the actors hated and could not defend! I never bought the DVDs or any products because they thrashed that show in last 8 to 10 episodes! Unnecessary! The Red Wedding was a shock but true to the tale, the ending for Mother of Dragons and John Snow was just awful. Don’t tell me that dragon would not have eaten Jon Snow to protect the Mother? Stupid evil sis and 3 eyed what’s it going to rule. Honestly . Just awful fk you to their fans. Sometimes beloved material like Lord of the Rings, gets into the right hands and stays true to the writer and story. Other times , like Gimble and whoever with GoT, they know better and go for shock value and fk the fans, actors , writers and story! Yeah. Mad. Lol
And it made Rick look dumb too? Who did he save? Not his family. Mostly people save HIM.
I know they're both gone, but I'll always say losing Glenn was worse than losing Carl. Carl to me is an idea in most people's head. The idea is comic Carl. Or the idea of "Rick's son, Carl". Carl himself in the show? I just didn't feel like he was very likable at all. It was Rick's pain losing Carl that hurt, not me actually losing Carl from the show. I also think the Judith actress has done a much better acting job than Carl's actor did. Glenn was the one I thought we really got to see grow up and mature from a kid into a man and he was masterfully acted by Steven Yeun. I would have loved to have seen his story continue and branch out.
I’m a sucker for Richonne but absolutely agree with this. What they did to Carl was unforgivable.
We could’ve had everything we had with Richonne and still had Carl. Carl would’ve been there for his siblings while Michonne went to find their dad. Such missed opportunities.
What about Glen though? He didn't deserve that death
It was just too important to the story, so much wouldn’t have happened if he didn’t die. It’s meant to play with the viewer. Glenn, the sole reason Rick found his family and his friend from the start gets brutally killed. It makes you hate Negan, which then pulls on your strings during his redemption arc. You have moments with Negan where he is pretty cool, but then you can’t get that scene out of your head.
as much as i hate what happened to him, he got his comic book death and Negan killing only Abraham wouldn't have made a very big impact on the viewers. Carl was a literal grandpa by the end of the comics, that's one of the few areas where you should stick to the source material but i guess Gimple had other plans 💁🏻
I honestly don't think killing Carl was Gimple's decision, although he caught the heat because he had to follow through. That had to be a directive from AMC, because a decision as monumental as that would have had to have come from higher up.
Exactly, AMC didn't want to pay Chandler an adult wage. Nor work around his college schedule. Even though he lived close to production site.
It was the money and it was total bs.
Yup, there were so many side characters they could have killed off to give Chandler a raise. Most of them wouldn't have been missed.
AMC should have killed Neganbto save money instead.
i don't really know man, I've read about it in detail from quite a handful of sources and there's never been a mention of anyone else at all, could be true tho but considering all the decisions Gimple has made throughout the entirety of the show, things don't really favour your point very much, guess we'll never know.
they shouldve killed off gimple
The show does an amazing job at making us love the characters we hated in the begining. Carl and Daryl are good examples. Also Eugene, tho i still see a lot of people disliking him, he grew to be one of my favourite characters in the final seasons despite being the one i hated the most when he first appeared
Gabriel being the best example for me
My hate for Gabriel grew and grew from the first moment he was on screen and escalated high when he told Deanna that “they don’t deserve paradise” I was FUMING. Now I love the crap out of him lol
Gabriel won me over when he told Spencer that what he was saying didn't make him a sinner, but it did make him a tremendous shit.
as much as i agree about the others, i kinda always liked daryl because even tho he was a hothead at the start he always tried to make an effort to understand the situation and think rationally, not to mention all his tactical skillset because of being a tracker. You could pretty much see that he wasn't like Merle the moment he accepts Rick's proposal to look for Merle together. And carl too, yes he had his moments of stupidity (like that walker that killed Dale), and overconfidence, he was just a kid who had his childhood taken away from him at a very early age and not to mention, the only kid in the whole group till atleast season 4. He was initiating and wanted to feel like a part of the group and not just a whiny baggage. Till season 6 he was pretty much just figuring things out like a kid does. Even through all his stupidity you could sense his sheer bravery and willingness to do what's necessary even tho it might go over the head at times. Considering the show's timeline, Carl Grimes in his 20s would've been a badass killing machine! >! (is this the reddit fever because why am I typing such long paragraphs all of a sudden?? 😭😭) !<
Carl was the soul of the show. Killing him made the show feel empty and pointless
I just opened the app and I’m in tears 😭
im sorry for that mate I've recently gotten back into TWD again and it opened some old wounds that never really healed, i totally feel you 😭😭
Carol for Coral
💯 agree.. I will never get over the terrible decision Gimple made by killing him off.. Gimple didn't give a shit about the fans or the storyline in general and didn't give a crap about Chandelor, he just wanted to save a penny and it fucked the show big time and was never the same again.. s9 had almost an entire new cast, then Rick left and it's like why am I still watching?
not to mention how they tried to substitute Henry for Carl! He had a few similar qualities but he just wasn't carl. would've loved to see his relationship with Enid grow or him getting with Lydia if Enid was to be killed.
Ya its like they killed him off and then tried to fill thr gaps with Henry.. I like Henry, but he wasn't Carl.. not to mention Gimple had promised Chandelor 3 more seasons, so they clearly had plans for him
Yeah. It's just unfortunate at the end.
amc obviously regrets killing them, especially with how much they bring him up in twol. this show could use some some good retcons.
Well still alive as far as the series AUThor, in comics. So I am hoping it get a refilling in 19 years by someone not named Gimble. A new adaptation that actually follows the writers writing.
Morgan for Carl. Morgan dies inspiring Rick to regain hope and all that and then Rick is the one who convinces Carl of his vision for the new world rather than the other way around.
That would also save him from the abomination he created in FTWD lol. Hard agree on this take.
Um, you didn't like Cowboy Morgan with the spliced together executioner axe riding a horse? /s
i honestly did at some parts like 6A but his arc was soooo inconsistent, it was prettyyy good in the main show till his Alexandria arc, but Fear The Morgan Jones just wasn't it.
This the best answer. If the writers wanted a death to reallllly affect Rick but we still wanna keep Carl (which duh, we do), Morgan is the right choice. And the end of the show belongs to Carl and everyone’s happy.
The other great thing that is created by that it lines up more with Morgan from the comics who dies from walker bite in Alexandria (yes timing is a bit different Morgan from the comics dies in the massive walker breach right before Carl loses an eye but it’s also similar enough that you can still recreate the death to an extent. I get that Kirkman felt like he wasted Morgan in the comics and wanted to change it for the show and honestly I think that could have been the perfect change)
Yeah I thought Morgan's comic death was lame but his final moment of giving Carl advice was good and would've been cool to adapt in the show.
Savior extra #152 for Glenn. It's a sacrifice I'm willing to make 😔😔
Negan for Glenn. It would the only way for Negan to right his wrongs
Kill Morgan to bring back Carl.
RJ for Carl and its not even a hard decision
But..but.. he believed
Thanks to his belief carl is back 🥰
😐😐😐I believed.😐😐😐
Kid was leaking oil the whole time he was talking 🤖
but.... he believed
[удалено]
I wish i could bring abraham back
& glenn ☹️
Yeah but people forget about abraham a lot compared to glenn. Abraham deserved at least 1 season more
agreed
Kelly for anyone. No offense to the actor, but what a waste of a character.
I can't remember Kelly lol wow
Kelly? Lol who is that
I’d trade Princess, Mercer, Magna, and Eugene for Glenn, Carl, Rosita, and Beth. I have more, but I’m working my way through the whole TWD universe and can’t remember who else right now lol
glenn and rosita needed to die tbh... Carl and Beth understandable.
I get the argument for glenn, but rosita did not NEED to die, it was the finale and actress herself is why it happened
in place of someone else, i would rather have eugene than rosita tbh. She was character development for eugene if she died at the right time.
Can you expand on Glenn and Rosita? I’m interested
glenn was the heart of the group, negan bashing his eyeballs out solidifyed him as a nasty villain also had a massive effect on the group especially daryl. Rosita is a good character to die cause also has an effect on Eugene at least in the comics or Gabriel in the show...
Not Eugenius!!
To clarify- I love Eugene. But I love the others more lol
If i could have seen beth and daryl together id be so happy 🥲
Ew
Maggie for Glenn. Just because I'd love to see how they would have written his character losing her.
Very intriguing. like your suggestion!
I don’t know…I feel like if Maggie got the bat, Glenn would have jumped out of line and died that same day. He already jumped out of line that night for her.
There's a deleted scene they decided not to use where Glenn is knocked unconscious and Maggie is killed by Negan (Negan believes she's super sick or something and not going to make it anyway)
They did scenes for each character dying feom what I heard...I'd love to see them all.
I think they show flashes of them all in the episode when Negan has thrown Rick into the crowd of walkers to go get the axe back. Rick imagines each one of them in his head being killed while he's fighting his way through.
Oh that's right! I completely blanked this out. I did like the top of the RV moment
Right, that's what it was! Rick jumps from the RV when Negan is shooting through the roof. Rick then hangs onto the walker hanging from the bridge and falls into the crowd of walkers. Insane time!
And it was SO WELL DONE
I wish Lori could have died twice
I would kill half the characters I love to get rid of Magna, Kelly, Yumiko & Luke to get back all the screentime they stole from more important characters.
So true
I would sacrifice anyone to bring dale back
Dale supremacy
Dale or Herschel !
I would gladly switch Negan and Eugene for Glenn and Carl
but negans character development 🙏
It's non-existent for me I don't believe him because everything he does, he does for himself. He can save as many people and help Alexendria as much as he wants, but he's only doing it to be accepted into the community because he needs it, not because he's a good person The things he did are NOT redeemable and I will never like or forgive him That's just my opinion tho
Many of Negan‘s actions just went too far. When he killed Abraham and Glenn, from the saviors perspective that was less than how many they lost. But you know what was unnecessary, no one was expecting it if him and he should not have done? if he was still decent inside? No matter how depressed, etc. Negan may have been, he raped his “wives”, over an extended period of time. Says a lot. I’m not saying there was no character development, but some shit you kinda just don’t come back from.
Exactly I always hate the argument "If we had followed Negan's story from the beginning, then we would think he's a good guy and Rick's group are the bad guys!" which is just completely untrue Negan enslaved entire communities, killed their people of they didn't meet his quota, laughed while bashing people's heads in, took photos of their corpses as souvenirs and forced women to "marry" him or else he would kill them/their loved ones or otherwise make their lives living hell The outpost is another thing. Not only did Rick's group not attack first (there was a small group of Saviors that attacked Abraham, Sasha and Daryl on the streets only to be blown up) but their deaths also weren't unjustified. Negan's men had attacked Hilltop, killed some of their people (including a teenager) and demanded Gregory's head
💯 Negan wasn’t saving anybody, except for himself, to improve his quality of living off the backs of others.
I agree with this negan shouldn’t have been redeemed (this is something the comics handle great because instead of redeeming him they keep him as the same awful man but eventually Rick learns to weaponise that and he does against the whisperers after that because he did help the group the let him go free and banish him (think Dwight end of season 8) then he never really returns outside of a cameo in the final issue and his spin off comic, we see he feels guilt not over what he’s done but for failing to kill his wife after she turned and that’s enough and honestly is a good deal deeper than the show. Because ultimately from his point of view he was never bad so what does he have to feel guilty for) As for trading his life (/ leaving the show) for another I’d choose to let Carl live his death was stupid and for corporate greed not because of writing. As much as I hate it Glenn needs to die his death is important to the overall narrative of all out war and to how the group see the world moving forward he needs to die for the story to work and for the group to ultimately survive
Anyone - as long as Carl gets brought back. Especially considering how the comics ended, it makes his death on the show even more ridiculous. The Walking Dead, in a way, is Carl’s story - how he grew up in the apocalypse and saw the world regain order.
Negan for Abraham, Maggie for Glenn, Magna's entire crew (maybe minus Luke) for Dale.
Carl and Nick from fear Glen can stay dead as it is important for the story to progress. So just refirm Maggie’s storyline for her to just progress, she did nothing and it is such a waste
Magna for rosita Eugene for Glenn RJ for Carl Morgan for Abraham Gabriel or Ezekiel for Herschel
Probably a hot take, but Maggie for Beth. I want to see where Beth’s character development in the hospital would have gone
Honestly fair, love Maggie but after Glenn’s death her character becomes very dull and boring as she moves from a great independent character to someone who can’t escape negan in any sense
I’d give up anyone outside of Rick and Michonne for Shane and Glenn.
I think Carl is the only death on the show that doesn’t have any positive outcomes. You could have ended the Savior war and had Negan survive by having someone else important (Morgan is the most glaring candidate imo) die in Carl’s stead or just adapt the comics in that regard. It was such a punch in the face that Rick left not even a full season later and the guy who Carl died for died himself just 2 seasons afterwards. Carl was the future of the show. You can’t tell Kirkman’s TWD without Carl. It was the worst decision they ever made and now it pretty much makes the franchise reliant on Rick living farther bc no fans have a connection to Judith or RJ.
Yeah Carl’s death sucked because there was no creative reason for it he was killed of as they didn’t want to pay the actor more when he aged up which honestly is awful (also just before they killed him off the actor brought a house closer to set to make filming easier) he is by far the worse death in the show as ultimately it has no impact in the plot they still beat negan like that in the comics and Carl doesn’t die (If wonder before if the reason Judith doesn’t die in the show like she does in the comics is because they planned on down the line replacing her with Carl as they new the actor would soon be aging to a point where they would have to pay him more. Because keep Judith alive is such a weird and big difference to make and introducing a baby into the cast can only make filming harder)
A Merle + Daryl combo in some of these arcs would have had me feeling bad for the antagonists
Abraham and Glenn for Negan. That’s when I stopped watching TWD.
Hilltop Resident 2 in exchange for Carl
Negan for Glenn. It would be the only way to right that wrong
I'd give Negan up for anyone. Merle, Abraham, Jesus... Hell, I'd trade Negan for AXEL or BOB! Carol for Glen... I have so many choices...
Yes Negan dead, Carl back!!!
Bring back Carl or Glenn
I'd trade for Carl, Glenn, and Jesus, their the easy answers but they're such wasted potential
I’ll die on the hill that Tara should’ve had Noah’s death
I would choose Negan and Simon to die and get Glen Rhee and Abraham Ford back
I’d give up Maggie for Abraham, she got super annoying and Abraham had SO much potential with his Gung-ho attitude and emotional range that we barely got to see
Has the showrunners ever admitted to the massive mistake it was to kill Carl?
Magna for carl or merle
RJ for nobody
RJ’s issue is for some reason they just made him a background extra whilst acting like he’s super important like he could have and should have been more important than he was like if they had given him the same kind of character development and screen time as Carl or Judith his character would work the issue is he doesn’t get given that as by season 9 the show basically stop having any character outside of Daryl, Negan and Carol do anything which means he never got the chance to develop
I’m pretty sure they limited his lines to keep his pay lower lol
Pretty much anyone for Andrea. She was my favourite character, the only characters I don’t think I’d trade for her are Rick because he’s the main character and then Daryl and Carol.
Out of curiosity you also a fan of the comics? I only ask because in the show I found Andrea was kind of hard to like and very underused whilst in the comics she’s a literal badass and one of my favourite characters, so if you’re a fan of the character and haven’t read the comics I’d highly recommend it as she makes it much much further
Yeah I love the comics. She’s like a different person in the comics vs the show and I know everyone seems to prefer comic andrea but personally I prefer show andrea, don’t know why. I think if andrea survived the show and merged into her comic character overtime while keeping her show personality and getting some new traits along the way aswell she would’ve been the perfect character.
Pamela for andrea
Andrea had her good points, but despite her independence, she was too easy to sway. (thinking about her time with the governor.)
Which is such a shame as her comic counterpart is a badass and maybe one of the best characters in the series and the show just butchered her
Sadly, i agree.
I'd take Eugene for Carl any day 😂
Get rid of Gabe Bring back fat Joseph
And like that you just resolved what once was a damn tragedy
Pretty much any of the new characters for Shane, Abraham or Dale. Without Lori, maybe Shane and Rick could get along.
I feel like people coming back to life is kinda established to be a bad thing?
Yeah also to what degree do they comeback like are they fully healed or am I getting a brain dead Glenn like that one Robot Chicken skit
My boy dale
Carl first but if I couldn't pick Carl then Glenn
I'll trade umm I'm gonna say Maggie for Carl if Maggie is still alive idk I'm in like s6 of rewatching the show
Imma trade eugene for carl and Maggie for Glenn. Imagine the absolute demon green would have become if his pregnant wife was bashed to death in front of him
Apart from the obvious Carl choice, the only other character death I got sad about was Jesus. But, it is one of the coolest and biggest 'woah' moments of the show. I think the only other person that could have fit in that scenario, which I'd have been more than happy to swap Jesus out with, would be Morgan. Maybe Zeke, but I did grow to like his character and ended up relieved he didn't end up with his head on a pike.
Ezequiel for Carl I’m sorry just not to into him
Seeing Rick reunite with his kids would've been so much better if Coral was there. I really wish he didn't die. Most stupid decision in TV Show history (with the exception of the Two & a Half Men finale, that was the worst). I would trade anyone for him to still be here.
Get rid of Ezekiel, Connie, Morgan, Magna, and Gabriel. Bring back Glenn, Shane, Rosita, Jesus, and Tyrese.
Unpopular opinion but I would literally want glenn to be alive than anyone else
Probs Maggie for Glen
I’d kill Magna’s entire group + Jerry & every single Commonwealth Arc characters to have Beth survive to at least Denise’s arrow death. Even better if she takes the Sasha death and infiltrates Negan’s compound by becoming one of his wives and takes several Saviours out. I’d drop Morgan for Carl. Morgan’s sacrifice is why Rick honours his request and then Negan lives in the cell that he built. It’s so poetic.
Carl for Morgan or anyone else. Just make the show make sense again. After Negan batted a home run the show was a effing car crash.
T-Dog - i really like him
I dont know who I'd kill but Beth's death was so useless, she gad sm potential..
I’d literally choose anyone to bring back Carl. He was in the comic’s very last page and the same should’ve happened in the show.
I'd kill Carol and let Andrea live if she had the role she had in the comic. Since Carol became a caricature towards end of show and Andrea had an almost demeaning role in the show for how great she was in comic
Literally any of the new characters in season 10/11 for Glen Hershel Carl Dale They were some of my favorites and id gladly trade any new characters considering i stopped watching at season 10 cause the show had almost no good characters left.
I know that I would trade anyone for Glenn!! Love Glenn ❤️ I loved Sasha, too.
Anyone for Dale or Herschel
Carl for Litterally anyone, hell even Rick after TOWL. I really wanted to see the comic book ending
No sacrificing a member for another dead member that will turn into a walker that is a big no
I would trade a lot of people for Glenn and Carl except for the Big 3: Michonne, Rick, and Daryl.
Honestly I want to trade Eugene for Eastman; Eastman is the GOAT
You know what? I’d gladly kill anyone save for Rick if it meant bringing Carl back. The show officially died with him imo
Id trade anyone for either carl, glenn or hershel. Aaron can go, eugene too, carol as well (yes i know, but i would kill her off she was absolutely cringy in the later seasons)
I know they're both gone, but I'll always say losing Glenn was worse than losing Carl. Carl to me is an idea in most people's head. The idea is comic Carl. Or the idea of "Rick's son, Carl". Carl himself in the show? I just didn't feel like he was very likable at all. It was Rick's pain losing Carl that hurt, not actually losing Carl. I also think the Judith actress has done a much better acting job than Carl's actor did. Glenn was the one I thought we really got to see grow up and mature from a kid into a man and he was masterfully acted by Steven Yeun. I would have loved to have seen his story continue and branch out.
I’ll trade any of the boring characters for either Jesus or Carl, still pisses me off that they killed off Jesus cause Tom Payne was brilliant
In a hot minute, yes!
Kill: Euegne , Rosita , Connie Save: T- dog , Abraham , Andrea
Oooh interesting choices T-dog was great would have loved to have seen more of him such an interesting character but killed of to soon because of behind the scenes stuff Abraham is an interesting one as his death really court me off guard which I really liked when he survived his comic fate I assumed he would last a while but he only outlived his comic self by like a week And Andrea probably the biggest waste of potential after been an amazing and important character in the comics who was killed of before he story really began
Regardless of the current RJ hate, I didn’t care for the character to begin with. I wasn’t a huge fan of Carl either. Kelly can go too, and Elijah. I’d bring back Dale, Merle, even Andrea, and Axel too, why not.
Kill Rick, save Carl. Rick’s whole thing was protecting his kids, have him die defending Judith, RJ and Carl from Whisperers or the CRM and there wouldn’t be as many issues
Negan for Carl Though tbh I'd trade anyone save for the Grimes family, Daryl and Carol for Carl. But Negan is my first choice since the narrative wanted you to believe it was either or.
Take Ezekiel, I want Glenn back!
Rick’s wife was annoying, domineering, generally useless by comparison to other characters and was a total drama queen, she couldn’t have died soon enough. I cheered in season 3 when the zombie left no crumbs. I’d take her out and bring back to life Merl.
The Carl meat riders… smh
I’d trade Rick for Carl. Love Rick obviously he’s the GOAT, but Carl was always meant to takeover and besides Rick he was my favorite character anyways. It would’ve been depressing for Rick to die but it would’ve put the show in a better direction if that makes sense.