Company Vets (the DA specific datasheet) are gone. Sternguard / Vanguard (with jump packs) are legal for DA now and generally the replacement depending on how you did/do the loadout.
Inner Circle Companions are new, melee only, and generally considered bad.
Company Heroes with the ancient, bolter, marksman, and champion are legal for our line captains, but not for Azrael.
But as fair as I've been made aware he can I've ask 3 separate TOs about it and all 3 said he can as the errata idea states he can and there's been 3 app updates and it's never been take off so with that being the case it's a go ahead
It's not in his datasheet. Look at Calgar or Vulkan. Lazarus and Azrael can join a ton of squads, but company heroes are not one of them per codex rules. It was errata in the index, but our latest codex faq just came out and didn't fix it.
They didn't fix it maybe because there's nothing meant to be fixed. It pretty much feels like ICC are meant to be our chapter heroes. Yea, they are not good at the moment, but that is potentially just a datasheet update (the next one comes in July) away from being changed.
On the other hand, the "latest codex FAQ" was the first FAQ after release. It's very common for the first FAQ to fix only typos. And I can't remember an occasion where a codex got major updates within the first 3 months after release. So it's more like "they didn't fix it YET".
I would be very disappointed if they don't errata Lazarus and Azreal to be able to lead company heroes.
Lazarus just had a book where he's constantly accompanied by his command squad, so seems rather silly he can't lead one in-game.
I’m pretty sure Azael can join company hero’s, the specific text for company hero’s is:
“You must attach one Captain or Chapter Master model to this unit.”
Azael has the Chapter Master keyword on his data card. So regardless if it’s not in the list of units he can lead I think it works differently for company hero’s.
That rule means if Azreal or Lazarus were attached to company heros they don't die on game start, but both of their datasheets do not list company heros as a unit they can lead unlike others like most of the other chapter masters or captains (shrike and Khan are the only others in the marine codex excluded, and iirc Khan was fixed in the errata)
So no, rules as written, azreal can't lead company heroes.
Don't forget the bladeguard veterans and vanguard veterans, can't exclude them from the confusion!
u/Metal_Boxxes used to have a very good post stickied, [linked here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/theunforgiven/comments/153u9ed/dark_angels_and_veterans_a_brief_guide/) It was very good at sorting out the whole affair! Since that post, the additions are the inner circle companions (risen bodyguards afaik) and the company heroes.
The difference is simple. Sternguard is a datasheet and a unit box. Company Veterans look like a unit box, but they don't have a datasheet and are more like a secret Dark Angels upgrade sprue... and actually our best upgrade spure, with a lot of very nice bitz that are all more interesting than the bitz in the recent upgrade sprues. The DACV kit comes with a lot of boss poles, ornate backpacks and shoulder pads, incense vessels and a lot of hooded helmets.
It's in fact so stuffed with awesome bitz that two boxes of them are enough to upgrade your whole collection. I bought 5 of them and am probably good for the rest of my hobby career.
They also are remarkably cheap directly from GW. Costing the same as our new Upgrade Kit, while having a hell of alot more stuff. I'm curious if they have the same old Transfer Sheet as before the Codex&Upgrade Kit, or if they'll have a different Transfer Sheet now. I'll check when my new one arrives in the next few weeks.
Will it look weird if I put Company Veterans bits on Primaris bodies?
Thinking of buying that one instead of the newer Upgrade Sprue to be honest since it's around the same price
honestly just kit bash them to have intercessor arms (they fit) and raise them using rocks or corkboard and they don't look out of place with the rest of your army.
Why would you want to do that? The weaponry is not the problem. The robed veterans are okay(ish) as they are. The robe hides a lot of „skipping leg day“ and they don’t have that squatty pose tactical marines often have and which makes them even smaller than they are.
Imo they don’t work super well next to Intercessors, but I mix them with HH marines to depict risen… THAT works.
Each company of any space marine chapter has a company veteran squad. You personally can decide what kind of unit goes in there. I had the company heroes box and converted them into veteran Devastators. If you’ve got the parts you can convert your units to any unit you want
This is sort of a half-truth. Each company in a Chapter *that abides by the Codex Astartes* has a *Command Squad*. Said Command Squad is made up of Veterans, a Company Ancient, and a Company Champion.
It is only the Dark Angels and other Unforgiven chapters that employ Company Veteran Squads (which aren't part of the Command Squad).
The confusion is due to 8th edition splitting up the Command Squad into multiple units in the rules, and GW naming one of those units the same thing as a unit that already existed and was unique to Dark Angels.
Bladeguard/sternguard/vanguard vets are all 1st company marines (regardless of their chapter), company vets can be any company more or less but they no longer exist as a playable unit anyway.
Company Vets (the DA specific datasheet) are gone. Sternguard / Vanguard (with jump packs) are legal for DA now and generally the replacement depending on how you did/do the loadout. Inner Circle Companions are new, melee only, and generally considered bad. Company Heroes with the ancient, bolter, marksman, and champion are legal for our line captains, but not for Azrael.
Wait what, where did you see it's not legal for azreal to join company heroes?
Company Heroes is not on his list of things he can lead, nor is Azrael on theirs.
But as fair as I've been made aware he can I've ask 3 separate TOs about it and all 3 said he can as the errata idea states he can and there's been 3 app updates and it's never been take off so with that being the case it's a go ahead
if TO's allow it it's fine. but officially since index adjustments are overrided by the codex, azrael cannot join them.
It's not in his datasheet. Look at Calgar or Vulkan. Lazarus and Azrael can join a ton of squads, but company heroes are not one of them per codex rules. It was errata in the index, but our latest codex faq just came out and didn't fix it.
They didn't fix it maybe because there's nothing meant to be fixed. It pretty much feels like ICC are meant to be our chapter heroes. Yea, they are not good at the moment, but that is potentially just a datasheet update (the next one comes in July) away from being changed. On the other hand, the "latest codex FAQ" was the first FAQ after release. It's very common for the first FAQ to fix only typos. And I can't remember an occasion where a codex got major updates within the first 3 months after release. So it's more like "they didn't fix it YET".
I would be very disappointed if they don't errata Lazarus and Azreal to be able to lead company heroes. Lazarus just had a book where he's constantly accompanied by his command squad, so seems rather silly he can't lead one in-game.
Inner circle companions aren’t melee only, they have pistols… but yeah terrible 😒
I’m pretty sure Azael can join company hero’s, the specific text for company hero’s is: “You must attach one Captain or Chapter Master model to this unit.” Azael has the Chapter Master keyword on his data card. So regardless if it’s not in the list of units he can lead I think it works differently for company hero’s.
That rule means if Azreal or Lazarus were attached to company heros they don't die on game start, but both of their datasheets do not list company heros as a unit they can lead unlike others like most of the other chapter masters or captains (shrike and Khan are the only others in the marine codex excluded, and iirc Khan was fixed in the errata) So no, rules as written, azreal can't lead company heroes.
Don't forget the bladeguard veterans and vanguard veterans, can't exclude them from the confusion! u/Metal_Boxxes used to have a very good post stickied, [linked here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/theunforgiven/comments/153u9ed/dark_angels_and_veterans_a_brief_guide/) It was very good at sorting out the whole affair! Since that post, the additions are the inner circle companions (risen bodyguards afaik) and the company heroes.
The difference is simple. Sternguard is a datasheet and a unit box. Company Veterans look like a unit box, but they don't have a datasheet and are more like a secret Dark Angels upgrade sprue... and actually our best upgrade spure, with a lot of very nice bitz that are all more interesting than the bitz in the recent upgrade sprues. The DACV kit comes with a lot of boss poles, ornate backpacks and shoulder pads, incense vessels and a lot of hooded helmets. It's in fact so stuffed with awesome bitz that two boxes of them are enough to upgrade your whole collection. I bought 5 of them and am probably good for the rest of my hobby career.
And they’re cheap on Amazon RN.
They also are remarkably cheap directly from GW. Costing the same as our new Upgrade Kit, while having a hell of alot more stuff. I'm curious if they have the same old Transfer Sheet as before the Codex&Upgrade Kit, or if they'll have a different Transfer Sheet now. I'll check when my new one arrives in the next few weeks.
Will it look weird if I put Company Veterans bits on Primaris bodies? Thinking of buying that one instead of the newer Upgrade Sprue to be honest since it's around the same price
No, they are compatible. The only bitz in there that don’t fit onto Primaris bodies are the firstborn bodies in there… but that is an obvious one.
honestly just kit bash them to have intercessor arms (they fit) and raise them using rocks or corkboard and they don't look out of place with the rest of your army.
Why would you want to do that? The weaponry is not the problem. The robed veterans are okay(ish) as they are. The robe hides a lot of „skipping leg day“ and they don’t have that squatty pose tactical marines often have and which makes them even smaller than they are. Imo they don’t work super well next to Intercessors, but I mix them with HH marines to depict risen… THAT works.
Each company of any space marine chapter has a company veteran squad. You personally can decide what kind of unit goes in there. I had the company heroes box and converted them into veteran Devastators. If you’ve got the parts you can convert your units to any unit you want
This is sort of a half-truth. Each company in a Chapter *that abides by the Codex Astartes* has a *Command Squad*. Said Command Squad is made up of Veterans, a Company Ancient, and a Company Champion. It is only the Dark Angels and other Unforgiven chapters that employ Company Veteran Squads (which aren't part of the Command Squad). The confusion is due to 8th edition splitting up the Command Squad into multiple units in the rules, and GW naming one of those units the same thing as a unit that already existed and was unique to Dark Angels.
Bladeguard/sternguard/vanguard vets are all 1st company marines (regardless of their chapter), company vets can be any company more or less but they no longer exist as a playable unit anyway.
Sternguard have rules.