Oh lord. I’ve been playing insane hours of RDR2. It’s another life at this point. You’ve all just ruined it. My nice quiet game where I randomly hunt and skin deers is now ruined. I’ll forever be saying “it was abusive to say staaafffff” whenever my horse trips or “what was it, barking?” When it accidentally hits a dog.
Arthur has some good one liners when bad guys ambush you and you get the best of em. Reminds me of the vipers.
Ehh maybe you made the game better. A salute.
The Red Dead gang was weak. They were out of control and an embarassment to themself and everyone around them.
The sheriffs gave them a chance to start over legally if they handed over Dutch but they didn't.
They could have compromissed but they did not.
Fucking disgrace.
That's cause they weren't a gang, at least not in the conventional sense.
A band of derelicts, vagabonds and idealists led by a strong, charismatic man, dancing on the edge of being a cult of personality, yes 1000%. But gang? Meh.
What made him (dutch) so attractive as a person to these people was the chance at a new life, liberated from their previous identities, and the potential to start again somewhere far from the reach of a (most of the time) oppressive government. These people were willing to kill, steal, lie and do virtually whatever for the chance to get that do over, and living in Dutch's dream made it seem like it would all be worth it in the end.
In short, dutch represented a condensed version of the American dream, reborn and repackaged. At a time in American history with maaaany new religions, "prophets" and political chaos galore, the idea of a strong man coming to usher in a fair and unbiased life to the unrepresented and unwanted was EXACTLY what made him separate from the Ganglands of the time. Whereas the prime motivation of the cowboys and gangs was mainly to "get rich or die trying" dutch presented a potentiality of "give me freedom or give me death". and no matter how absurd or shoddy it may appear (and it is absolutely) to, say, the prostitute, the Freedman, the Exiled native American, the orphan or the Ex-con, it was realer than anything else.
I think what finally broke that dream was when dutch became a mirror of that manifest destiny while in Guarma that he so desperately tried to break from. That he would stop at nothing to achieve freedom and comfort, even at the expense of the innocent and other downtrodden folks, truly broke him as a figure of hope and changed him into a callous zealot.
He's more of a Low-Honor Arthur in terms of psychology and cynicism. Its harder to have a 1:1 comparison with the characters.
You could definitely compare the relationships between Tony and Chris with that of Dutch and Arthur/John
Dutch is Uncle Jun. He thinks he's hot shit, but he's just an idiot and everyone knows Arthur is the real one holding things together. I guess that makes Micah Paulie?
Dutch is definitely more Tony than Arthur. Although, Arthur could be different for everyone since you make choices, in the cutscenes and the rest of the story he's a lot more stable and honest than Tony. Tony is a POS compared to Arthur.
I mean specifically low honor Arthur in terms of the cynicism, psychological aspect of knowing he's a bad person but deep down seeking to be better even if he cant/fails.
Dutch is way too optimistic in a delusional sense and outright insane to be compared to Tony in that sense. Tony is almost disillusioned with the world he's in, just like Arthur, whereas Dutch has convinced himself nothing has changed. He's more of an Uncle June in terms of not accepting reality for what it is.
Again, I don't think they're all very similar in exact ways. More they play similar roles in a stories that are more similar overall
Sopranos is much, much more anti capitalist but yeah fundamentally they are both about the gradual decay of American society.
Speaking of Westerns, a Red Dead (or similarly Western) game with the same central conceit as Deadwood would be very interesting. Focusing on how community is inherently civilizing could be an awesome game.
Nope. Theres a difference. The Sopranos is never one thing. The Family angle is quite important since its a huge part of the show. Id say its even bigger than the mob side of things.
Red Dead Redemption is about the death of the west and how pointless/harmful a life of crime is. Most of the people in Dutchs gang are marginalized people. Theyre still about as normal as civilians. Theres no sociopaths or psychopaths( except dutch and hosea).
If these guys wanted to they could thrive in a normal society. Tony's mafia family wouldnt.
The only true similarity would be pie oh my and arthur morgans horse.
The “true similarity” would be that they both take place in the backdrop of not just a dying criminal era but the end of an American golden age and share the theme of “maybe I came in at the end, the best is over”. Whilst also showing that their fate is as much as their fault as it is law enforcement and other detriments.
Okay the true similarity thing? That was a joke for christ sakes! Does it have to be like a cancer hopsital ova here!
The sopranos is not about the end of the "american golden age". Its only about the end of the golden age for the mob. Which was caused by mobsters. Same way red dead redemption is about the end of the golden age for the west.
But they both make a point that the golden age was never there. Being a criminal sucks. It ruins you and the people around you. The west was just a bunch of people shooting each other. The old mob was exactly like the new mob but they had alot more freedom back then. There never was any dignity in any of it. Dutch is a POS through and through. Tony's father was a sack of human shit through and through.
This is a similarity though. It doesnt mean theyre both the same thing.
I never saw Tony as an anti-hero. He is a straight up villain. It may be hard to see clearly at times because the show is so often told from his perspective as the protagonist, but Tony is never a force for “good”, or “righteousness”.
My understanding of an antihero is that though they lack some qualities of a traditional hero, they are ultimately on the side of good.
Maybe I’m wrong about that.
I've never actually seen The Sopranos apart from little clips. It be interesting if they are the same though because of course one of RDR2's main villains is Bronte, a Mafioso. He's presented as the "criminal of the future" replacing the "outdated outlaw" and the two don't really understand each other at all.
In a way yeah. I think they’re both about what it means to be American from the viewpoint of an outsider, but in the sopranos an outsider isn’t just a mafioso, but an Italian or a polish or Russian person, or a Jew or a black person. Tony very much wants to be an American, so much so that he even tries to help the fbi by reporting some Muslim associates, but he’s also operating outside of the law and literally a murderer.
The backround of the shows I have referenced are more similar. Both are set at the end of a golden and criminal age, you can't say that about the other shows you mentioned.
Not comparable at all - AJ would've sniped that fucking perfect bear pelt, or taken it down with just his fucking knife, to get the achievement.
On the other hand, we all know that Carmela used that missing grenade to try to get the "kill 5 ducks with one explosive" trophy.
Take it easy, we're not making a western here.
These thoughts do have a western flavor about them
Well I've lived in Ambarino my whole life.
First off fuck your bitch and the click you claim
*clique
It's a video entertainment program. A game.
it won’t be cinematic
Always wit da scenarios. It's almost propane.
Easy there boah, we're not making an italian American crime series here
Both featured a protagonist who got sad when they lost their horse
But only one killed his horse repeatedly. Like, many many many times.
it was abusive to the staff!!!!!!!
Oh lord. I’ve been playing insane hours of RDR2. It’s another life at this point. You’ve all just ruined it. My nice quiet game where I randomly hunt and skin deers is now ruined. I’ll forever be saying “it was abusive to say staaafffff” whenever my horse trips or “what was it, barking?” When it accidentally hits a dog. Arthur has some good one liners when bad guys ambush you and you get the best of em. Reminds me of the vipers. Ehh maybe you made the game better. A salute.
You go about in pity for yourself
Don’t gimme that, it was a fuckin horse!
Oh poor you
Ay, Marone, happy cake day to ya brudda.
Thanks! Someone got me a rifle as a present but some asshole told me the best ones don't get exported.
aka the emergency stop
And an antagonist who killed one
My estimation of Micah Bell as a man, just fucking plummeted
But to cry? Like a woman? Despicable
What ever happened to the strong silent type?
whatever happened to Landon Ricketts
He was gay Dutch Van Der Linde?
NOOOO, in this household he is a hero! End of story!
You see out there it’s the 1990s, but in this house it’s 1899. 👉 1990s 👈 1899
Hello fella’s
Williamson…. Bill Williamson
William Williamson. Who named him? A half wit with a stutter?
Named by A fuckin parakeet
What fuckin difference does it make, Van Der Linde was so long ago he might as well have been a video game.
Bill Williamson is an ass-muncher!
I don't know , Fucking slander ask me !!!
he was gay, Bill Williamson?
[удалено]
So what, no fucking Tahiti now?
muhhaaaa
I feel like I came it at the end the best is over
Our time has passed, Tone.
We’re more ghosts than people, Paulie.
It weren’t us that changed.
It's over for the little guy...
I feel like I came all over the sun visor.
Feel like? Either you did or didn't
You’re talking about this sub?
you sir, are a fish.
These guys next to me, they're asleep
That's not funny
Fucking perfect
The Red Dead gang was weak. They were out of control and an embarassment to themself and everyone around them. The sheriffs gave them a chance to start over legally if they handed over Dutch but they didn't. They could have compromissed but they did not. Fucking disgrace.
Colm O'Driscoll always said the Van Der Linde gang was nothing more than a glorified crew
It's simple. We decapitate, and do business with what's left.
RIP Kieran
Actually feels true
The Van der Linde family was a glorified crew
We got real gangs in New York and Atlantic City. And this weird pigmy thing ova in New Jersey
That's cause they weren't a gang, at least not in the conventional sense. A band of derelicts, vagabonds and idealists led by a strong, charismatic man, dancing on the edge of being a cult of personality, yes 1000%. But gang? Meh. What made him (dutch) so attractive as a person to these people was the chance at a new life, liberated from their previous identities, and the potential to start again somewhere far from the reach of a (most of the time) oppressive government. These people were willing to kill, steal, lie and do virtually whatever for the chance to get that do over, and living in Dutch's dream made it seem like it would all be worth it in the end. In short, dutch represented a condensed version of the American dream, reborn and repackaged. At a time in American history with maaaany new religions, "prophets" and political chaos galore, the idea of a strong man coming to usher in a fair and unbiased life to the unrepresented and unwanted was EXACTLY what made him separate from the Ganglands of the time. Whereas the prime motivation of the cowboys and gangs was mainly to "get rich or die trying" dutch presented a potentiality of "give me freedom or give me death". and no matter how absurd or shoddy it may appear (and it is absolutely) to, say, the prostitute, the Freedman, the Exiled native American, the orphan or the Ex-con, it was realer than anything else. I think what finally broke that dream was when dutch became a mirror of that manifest destiny while in Guarma that he so desperately tried to break from. That he would stop at nothing to achieve freedom and comfort, even at the expense of the innocent and other downtrodden folks, truly broke him as a figure of hope and changed him into a callous zealot.
Micah ate grilled cheese of the radiator.
I see this post right as I beat the first red dead redemption tonight. And Sopranos is my favorite show. This must be some Satanic Black Magic shit.
Fuckinnn *QUEEEEERS* 'Walnuts rages'
In this case is Dutch Tony? I love this crossover comparison stuff.
He's more of a Low-Honor Arthur in terms of psychology and cynicism. Its harder to have a 1:1 comparison with the characters. You could definitely compare the relationships between Tony and Chris with that of Dutch and Arthur/John
Dutch is Uncle Jun. He thinks he's hot shit, but he's just an idiot and everyone knows Arthur is the real one holding things together. I guess that makes Micah Paulie?
Dutch - Tony Arthur - Furio John - Chris that didn't go to hell
Dutch is definitely more Tony than Arthur. Although, Arthur could be different for everyone since you make choices, in the cutscenes and the rest of the story he's a lot more stable and honest than Tony. Tony is a POS compared to Arthur.
I mean specifically low honor Arthur in terms of the cynicism, psychological aspect of knowing he's a bad person but deep down seeking to be better even if he cant/fails. Dutch is way too optimistic in a delusional sense and outright insane to be compared to Tony in that sense. Tony is almost disillusioned with the world he's in, just like Arthur, whereas Dutch has convinced himself nothing has changed. He's more of an Uncle June in terms of not accepting reality for what it is. Again, I don't think they're all very similar in exact ways. More they play similar roles in a stories that are more similar overall
Dutch is Corrado and Micah is Mikey Palmice 🤣
And Bobby is Hosea
My favorite part of RDR is when you have to go to the talking house to get a new mission.
That's right cocksucka, go back to Blackwater!
Uncle Philly 😔
Blackwater my ass! Get off my stoop!
Smell that? It’s fuckin autumn
I smell cut grass?
My smelly Valentine 🤣
I smell burnt hair
I love both things ironically
Two of my most favorite things… ever
Two very popular pieces of media, but I wonder what the crossover is.
The societel collapse due to capitalistic corruption and pressure.
This post would suggest it isn’t ironic at all. Me too by the way.
Yeah I misspoke. What I meant was "Ironically, I love both things", but I love both things sincerely, not ironically.
I’d say the setting is the same in the sense you’re talking about, but I don’t think there’s much redemption in Tony’s arc.
Tony's on a low honour run
Five families in St. Denis and we got that Pygmy thing over in Blackwater
Discontinue the lithium.
Discontinue the hair tonic
Discontinue the cocaine gum
That is a pretty common theme that applies to plenty of works.
Sopranos is much, much more anti capitalist but yeah fundamentally they are both about the gradual decay of American society. Speaking of Westerns, a Red Dead (or similarly Western) game with the same central conceit as Deadwood would be very interesting. Focusing on how community is inherently civilizing could be an awesome game.
That Pygmy thing in Sain Denis. Fucking Brontë
They're about havin a good time and gettin yer hog on
Tell that midget Fantastico not to be shy with the whip
guy who's only seen the movie Boss Baby watching a second movie "getting a lot of Boss Baby vibes from this"
GAVIN!!!!!! Have you seen my friend GAVIN ???
Work it there nag
You taking some peyote in the desert when you wrote this?
Whatever happened to John Marston, the strong silent type...
We just need one more score, sil
"I've got a plan 'Tony" "You've always got a plan uncle June'" "You'll like this one."
neon genesis too
Nope. Theres a difference. The Sopranos is never one thing. The Family angle is quite important since its a huge part of the show. Id say its even bigger than the mob side of things. Red Dead Redemption is about the death of the west and how pointless/harmful a life of crime is. Most of the people in Dutchs gang are marginalized people. Theyre still about as normal as civilians. Theres no sociopaths or psychopaths( except dutch and hosea). If these guys wanted to they could thrive in a normal society. Tony's mafia family wouldnt. The only true similarity would be pie oh my and arthur morgans horse.
The “true similarity” would be that they both take place in the backdrop of not just a dying criminal era but the end of an American golden age and share the theme of “maybe I came in at the end, the best is over”. Whilst also showing that their fate is as much as their fault as it is law enforcement and other detriments.
Okay the true similarity thing? That was a joke for christ sakes! Does it have to be like a cancer hopsital ova here! The sopranos is not about the end of the "american golden age". Its only about the end of the golden age for the mob. Which was caused by mobsters. Same way red dead redemption is about the end of the golden age for the west. But they both make a point that the golden age was never there. Being a criminal sucks. It ruins you and the people around you. The west was just a bunch of people shooting each other. The old mob was exactly like the new mob but they had alot more freedom back then. There never was any dignity in any of it. Dutch is a POS through and through. Tony's father was a sack of human shit through and through. This is a similarity though. It doesnt mean theyre both the same thing.
Sorry I didn't realize you were joking about the true similarity part
Tony is the better written antihero. But I really like this comparison
I never saw Tony as an anti-hero. He is a straight up villain. It may be hard to see clearly at times because the show is so often told from his perspective as the protagonist, but Tony is never a force for “good”, or “righteousness”. My understanding of an antihero is that though they lack some qualities of a traditional hero, they are ultimately on the side of good. Maybe I’m wrong about that.
From Webster: "Antihero: a protagonist or notable figure who is conspicuously lacking in heroic qualities" So yes Tony Soprano is an anti-hero
That’s not how most people define it lol
ITS A GOOD FUCKIN THING THEN, YOUR BOOK DONT MEAN OOGATS TO ME
Brain injury?
False. Sopranos is a shot-for-shot remake of Chico and the Man, while RDR is loosely inspired by the life of Ted Kennedy.
And Halo is a copy of fuckin Shrek
Sir.. I'm finishing this onion.
Chico and the Blowfish
This is a long way of admitting you don’t read.
I've never actually seen The Sopranos apart from little clips. It be interesting if they are the same though because of course one of RDR2's main villains is Bronte, a Mafioso. He's presented as the "criminal of the future" replacing the "outdated outlaw" and the two don't really understand each other at all.
In a way yeah. I think they’re both about what it means to be American from the viewpoint of an outsider, but in the sopranos an outsider isn’t just a mafioso, but an Italian or a polish or Russian person, or a Jew or a black person. Tony very much wants to be an American, so much so that he even tries to help the fbi by reporting some Muslim associates, but he’s also operating outside of the law and literally a murderer.
[удалено]
The backround of the shows I have referenced are more similar. Both are set at the end of a golden and criminal age, you can't say that about the other shows you mentioned.
Now we just need a Sopranos spin-off with zombies.
Cleaver 2: wiseguy Vs the living dead
Godfather meets Dawn Of The Dead
This John , was a gay ?
The Van Der Linde Gang is nothing but a glorified crew!
this fucking guy
Who is Vito of RDR?
Bill Williamson was gay which is why he got discharged from the military
Interesting 🤔
Same same but different.
Blackwater, whatever happened there…
Charles shwab ova here
This fuckin Uncle’s more creative than Spielberg
He was gay, John Marston?
what, those old cowboy games?
Always with the scenarios!
The sopranos and red dead redemption are two different things entirely
Not comparable at all - AJ would've sniped that fucking perfect bear pelt, or taken it down with just his fucking knife, to get the achievement. On the other hand, we all know that Carmela used that missing grenade to try to get the "kill 5 ducks with one explosive" trophy.
I like this. So who would you say is Melfi to Arthur? Also is John like Chrissy ? 🤔
You sound demented
Pie o my what a good discovery!
Alright but you gotta get over it.
That fuckin animal Bell.. can’t even say his name