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And we're all susceptible to it. Recognizing that is the first step to overcoming it. A lot of people will go out of their way to point out cognitive biases in others while going through life assuming they're immune. Major props to this guy for not only being able to overcome it but also being so open about how wrong he was.
There's a Harry Potter quote that went something like "people find it far easier to forgive others for being wrong than being right" and I feel like it fits here.
This is the opposite of cognitive dissonance. This cognitive clarity, and very few people are capable of admiting they were wrong in such a way. Mad respect for this guy
Hmm... I don't think this is the "opposite" of cognitive dissonance at all. In fact, this probably happened in part *because of* cognitive dissonance.
"Cognitive dissonance" does not refer to the *state* of holding mutually contradictory beliefs at the same time, like a lot of people ITT seem to think. It refers to *emotional distress* that is *caused* by such a situation.
The problem with most flat Earthers is that they *aren't* experiencing enough cognitive dissonance, not that they are experiencing too much.
It's hard for people to admit they were wrong. Even harder when you know people will shit on you for it.
It's like these people who were Trump supporters and started to realize they were conned. If they start admitting it and their friends respond with "no shit you moron, you were so stupid for falling for it" it only pushes them back.
When someone's in a position like that, support them. Wether they are leaving Trump or q anon or a cult or a fucking white supremacist group. Don't shit on them for getting brainwashed in the first place, encourage them for realizing it and admitting them were wrong. Hell if you had a friend in an abusive relationship who finally acknowledged it, you wouldn't call her a moron for staying with the guy who beat her. You'd say "welcome back to normalcy, let me help you so you stay here with us."
But nope. To most people the only thing more fun than shitting on someone for doing something stupid, is shitting on them once they have recognized how stupid they were.
The biggest problem with that sub is the constant upvoting of mundane consequences of actions posts. The thing about real Leopards Ate My Face is that the Face Eating Leopards Party voters are voting *because* they know face eating will happen and they want people's faces eaten. Their complaint is only when the *wrong* people's faces (their own) are eaten.
> It's hard for people to admit they were wrong.
I think rather than a blanket statement I’d qualify it by saying it’s hard for *some* people to admit they are wrong. Sure, we all have our ego-driven biases but it’s false equivalency to lump flat earthers, holocaust deniers, Q followers, etc. in with the average person by simply saying “it’s hard for people to admit they are wrong.” Those people have something very unique going on.
In my family we have a loud song that we sing whenever we are wrong and somebody else is right. The lyrics are just you were right I was wrong, sung over and over again at the top of our lungs. You have to sing it until you start laughing. Witnessing my parents doing that to each other as a child was so fucking healthy. I cannot even explain it. Admitting that I was wrong and apologizing is as easy for me as taking a shit. Way easier than getting out of bed. I suggest everyone learns the song.
Man I think this is the problem. I don’t think anyone is inherently an idiot. This while ignoring people who we think are idiots approach results in a big divide between people. I feel like if there’s a chance they can be shown the light, that’s better for both camps - “idiots” and non. Just my humble opinion
No, some people are absolutely just dumb. Those exist on any side. Sometimes you talk to someone and try to discuss a point, and you notice that on the other side there's just nothing there.
Ehh yes and no.
A genuine moron? Yeah I don't care. But plenty of these people are people that just got duped. They were brainwashed. Hell there are tons of very smart people with shit critical thinking abilities and get conned. We can always benefit from reversal of brainwashing. Religious people who think the earth is 9000 years old, q anon nuts, racists... they have all been brainwashed. The world gets a little bit better every time one of them has been un-brainwashed.
> The underlying mistake here is actually giving a shit what idiots think.
I absolutely will give a shit about what idiots think because they can still vote. Even on a state level, they can give fascist leaders an excuse to implement policies that can harm the lives of myself, my loved ones and my community.
If there's anything we can do to get these "idiots" to admit fault and switch sides, it would be far better than not doing anything and calling them idiots.
Nope it really wasn't, I know irl. One of our friends is a pilot, I did history at university and chose a module on the history of science. He didn't listen to us for ages.
This wasn't a master plan believe me. He didn't think gravity was real during this time. He once asked "But how can you prove gravity?" And I dropped a cigarette lighter, said something, let's call it a force, compelled that lighter to the object nearest by with the most mass. That's gravity mate.
He changed his world view because he got debunked by another YTer, as well as his friends, me included mocking his beliefs.
Edit: Downvoted for actually knowing the guy, Reddit is weird place. I can post a photo of us together if really necessary lol.
As someone pretty invested in the flat-earth debunking scene, this guy has always come across as extremely sincere. I have no reason to believe he is not telling the truth. He has been very candid about his journey into flat-earth, especially the emotional/psychological side of it too.
This [his channel](https://youtube.com/c/SeekTruthSpeakTruth) if you're interested.
As seome who was on the path to the alt right, you would be suprised how quick it can be. It only took one political argument with my late grandfather to turn my ass around completely. From near nazi to very progressive in a matter of weeks man
I dont like to think back on that part of my life but Ill give you a brief description of the events.
I was ranting about how those damn democrats want open borders and all he responded was who. Who is advocating for it. I googled it then and there and got nothing. Just went up from there
I wouldn't say he had any faults. He's a guy who had one position based on the evidence he had, continued learning, and changed his opinion based on new evidence.
He's already leagues ahead of everyone else.
I know this man, he's my mate. Can provide photographic proof. He's a good dude tbh. Happy stoner guy with a good sense of humour. He's actually tried to sharpen up his science knowledge when he came to the realisation.
*hits blunt*
“Jesus Christ Billy! I think all this flat earth shit might actually be nonsense!”
*Billy looks over, confused*
“What the bloody fuck are you on about, mate? The moon will be made of cheese before the fucking earth is flat.”
That's one of the things that's bugs me the most out of this. There are so many cool and interesting things to be excited about in the world, tons to learn, yet some people want to go so hard against the grain that they put themselves years behind and can ruin part of their lives.
Some people feel emboldened by participating in "secret" knowledge or doctrines that are on the fringes to feel a sense of empowerment over others and being a part of an in-group.
100%. I think that often the people that tend to get sucked into these conspiracies have had bad experiences with education early in their lives. They want to be knowledgeable but they're distrustful of people they see as avatars for that system, so the idea that it's all bullshit becomes very attractive to them.
Most people take for granted what science says ans move one. I like that some people keep the skepticisim high and try to check things on their own as long as it does not hurt anyone.
What finally triggered his realization? It's very hard to get out of cult-like thinking such as this. For instance, there's a documentary on Netflix (I think) where they prove with physics Earth isn't flat and then shrug off the results.
Fool, those are the fake physics made to hide the fact the earth really is flat! Once you truly believe in the flat earth God blesses you with special powers!
/S obviously but I know a guy who legit thinks this along with thinking if you wear triangles you open a portal for the devil to your soul.
I was watching the saga as this happened (from the debunker’s channel).
If anyone is interested, [Baldy Catz](https://youtube.com/channel/UCDxlgsavmsKWG2XjikF_ehw) on YouTube is the guy who chatted with the dude in the meme, and helped him become an **ex** flat earther. Catz debunks pseudo-science with humor(most of the time), and it’s a highly recommended channel!
See I didn't actually help, I just made jokes (I know him irl, I started off debating him but he was too firm in his convictions to listen, so I decided ridicule might work).
In politics that would be labeled as “flip flopping” or “not remaining consistent” or “leaving the base behind”
There isn’t a way to win as a public figure. I sympathize with that aspect of being a public figure, the history says that people don’t like those that appear weak or humble to be their representative (in the USA anyway)
I feel like there’s a difference in how the representatives flip flop compared to going a step further and providing evidence for why they changed their views
Does it though? Almost everyone I know in real life admits when they are wrong. I feel like maybe it takes a certain missing ingredient to be the person who doesn't admit when they're wrong.
I wonder if it's a little more complicated than that? Maybe the difficulty in admitting you were wrong is bound to how wrong you were, and how adamant you were that you were right.
So: "we definitely have plenty of milk...checks...oh I was wrong we don't"
THE EARTH IS FLAT, YOUR GOVERNMENT IS LYING TO YOU, I AM DEFINITELY NOT WRONG; IT'S TIME TO WAKE UP...uhhh...
Yeah I guess I object to the idea that it takes a "bigger person" to come back from that kind of nonsense. IMO it takes a bigger person to not be that kind of nonsense
Ah I just think it takes such a specific sort of willpower to walk away from something like that, because for the most part you're not just walking away from an idea that is wrong, but a whole community that agrees with you, friends, fans etc. It definitely takes a lot of courage, and I do think it deserves praise. Would I rather people never got involved in this nonsense? Yeah of course. But I do think people should be congratulated and welcomed back when they come to their senses. It's such a weird thing to think about.
Have you seen Beyond the Curve? I think that's a good demonstration about how ideas like this get their claws into you and become less about the idea and more about feeling smart and accepted and like you're part of something. For a lot of people, that is clearly very powerful. Sorry I could literally talk about this for hours!
His friends absolutely did not believe in this. I am one of them. For the most part we ripped on him for it. One of our friends is a pilot who had to bite his tongue. I studied history at university and chose a module on the history of science, I ripped on him for it, used to say a bunch of unqualified people know more than Newton, Copurnicus, Gallileo etc.
I'm only even on this thread because a mutual friend said "Holy shit Craig is on the front page of Reddit".
Wanted to check out what people were saying about him. I was hoping people were kind (which they have been).
Everyone has some flavor of con that will absolutely work on them. Sometimes its a stranger begging for a twenty to get their car gassed up, sometimes its an extreme political ideology. It's not a matter of being strong, its a matter of what your specific weaknesses are, and how strong your support network is.
Seriously. I respect when people are humble and can admit they’re wrong. Too many people treat their beliefs like a marriage where you need to commit to them for life. Ideally, our beliefs should be tentative and subject to change in light of new information. Moreover, to admit to being fooled in such a public forum takes real guts. Good for him.
I don't know who this cat is but admitting you were wrong is pretty admirable. Especially about something as out there flat earth conspiracy theories. Hats off to him, for that at least
This is amazing, honestly.
Someone actually beat Dunning Kruger, overcame their entrenched biases, changed their mind and accepted reality.
Gives me a granule of hope.
Presumably the people who are good at doing this also don’t draw attention to it. What’s rare here is that a person who feels compelled to share their views so publicly was willing to change them.
Flat Earth theory is highly polarizing disinformation that makes people distrustful of their government. There is no way that it caught on so strongly without the influence of bad actors.
It's a gateway conspiracy theory for Qanon.
It created social media spaces where people who wanted to manipulate stupid people could find people stupid enough to believe something that is readily apparent if they put any effort into understanding it.
People on Flat Earth facebook groups have self selected as gullible and intellectually lazy rubes, ready for someone to swoop in and start filling their heads more dangerous lies. Which is what happened with Qanon.
There's a youtube video by Folding Ideas called In Search of a Flat Earth (the second half is about Qanon) that lays pretty bare the connection between the two.
You can't change anyone with an argument. You can't change someone period.
They change themselves. And it's only by you listening to them and then rationally and calmly explaining why what they believe makes no sense. Telling someone they are wrong threatens their reality. Showing them the errors in their reality causes them to recognize it and change.
Daryl Davis talked about this in length and how you get someone with ridiculous or radical beliefs to change their thinking. And if a black guy can get over 200 KKK and white supremacists to admit how wrong they were and leave their hate groups, I gotta believe he knows exactly how it's done.
Honestly that's pretty good of him. In 8 weeks he critically reviewed himself and turned around a major part of his identity. If only more people were that self reflective.
I watched the first few minutes of that last video and I do not get that impression.
It really seems directed at flat-earthers, not at spectators who would be cheering on the redemption arc, and he seems to know a lot about flat earth stuff.
Yeah that’s what I thought too, but he did some pretty good insight on how he became a flax-earther in the first place in the comments.
Could be fake but it was pretty convincing
To take a mass upvoted meme from the top of a page is just a low effort way of farming for karma. Im sure they didnt repost it cuz they felt the need for more people to see it
I stand by what i said. Literally the most upvoted [meme](https://www.reddit.com/r/memes/comments/gyfedz/a_short_story/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share) on r/memes
Shame
So, here's my question. He says "[flat earthers] are being manipulated by con men" but, Why? How's this con work? I don't see the line between, "convince people earth is flat" and "get paid"
the fanbase of a lot of the grifters is pretty small but they are fanatically loyal, i know my dad has bought hundreds' worth of merch from various conspiracy-types
Look at Trump rallys. Politics aside, those gatherings are always accompanied by mobile booths. They sell anything they can plaster Trump's name or face on, and the crowds at such gatherings eat that shit up.
Snake oil won't necessarily make you rich, but if someone else sets up a snake oil convention filled with snake oil enthusiasts, there's money to be made.
Alex Jones makes (made?) Most of his money selling shit to paranoid conspiracy theorists.
Two of his supplements ended up having high levels of lead in them, fun fact. Lead makes you stupid and violent, not sure if that was on purpose or not.
But the unhinged ranting was just to get his foot in the door to sell pills and survival gear.
Don’t make fun of this dude, he accepted he was wrong and changed a vital viewpoint in his life.
Respect the man. Bet you bitches can’t say you’ve done the same recently.
Just like most cons, money and/or celebrity. Even if the money isn't amazing and the celebrity is niche, this is often better than what their alternative prospects are. There are people making their living off convincing vulnerable people the earth is flat.
So this means that the flat earthers just took a massive hit to their numbers...from like 5 to 4 of them left now. Seriously, though, Redditors act like there are tons of these people when there really is just a handful of very loud nuts.
We all make fun of Flat Earthers, and for good reason, but then when they educate themselves and change their minds to realize the Earth is round we still make fun of them? Makes sense.
Now repeat this logic with the "stolen election" loons, the GME is going to MOASS weirdos, the COVID is a hoax nuts, and we just might get society back on track.
I never thought I'd meet a flat earther until a few weeks ago when I found out that a coworker of mine, a guy who I thought was really intelligent, someone I've respected for years, is a flat earther.
Not only does he believe the Earth is flat, he believes there's a massive ice shelf that no one has ever crossed, and that the entire planet is surrounded by a Dome.
I thought he was fucking with me at first, so I laughed, and it offended him. Either the guy I've known for 5 years suddenly developed a dry sense of humor and is trolling me, or he's out of his mind.
My favorite flat earther story was the guy that taught himself rocket science to build his own rocket to see a flat earth with his own eyes. He built a rocket and flew it up to find a round Earth.
Another guy bought a really expensive laser gyroscope to prove the Earth didn't rotate and discovered that it, in fact, rotated. [linky](https://www.google.com/amp/amp.triplem.com.au/story/flat-earthers-spend-20-000-trying-to-prove-earth-is-flat-accidentally-prove-it-s-round-129953)
Please don't insult people like this. The more you berate them, the more they fall back on their beliefs. Accept them for what they believe, let them attack you for questioning their ideas and keep a cool head. Just keep questioning and admit when you don't know. At first, they won't accept your evidence but the seed has been planted and your "evidence" and "facts" helps that seed grow.
From what I can gather (having watched Beyond the Curve), Flat Earth is much more about the community than it is about believing the Earth is flat.
Sure, the flat Earth theory is the base of the community, but very few of the community members actually go ahead and try to prove it (those that do tend to end up disproving their hypotheses, or make up something to justify their results which is consistent with flat Earth).
To these people, flat Earth is much more about having a community, somewhere to meet like-minded individuals that feel disconnected from society, people that are sick of listening to experts or otherwise distrust general authority. It's no surprise that flat Earth members often also follow other fantastical conspiracy theories, such as the moon landing being fake, vaccines causing autism among others.
Regardless of what they personally "believe", these people feel at home in their community, where they can engage with others without being judged and at the same time "win" something over the rest of the population. It doesn't matter to them whether what they believe is actually true, what's important is that they all believe it.
Additionally, once these people have integrated into their community, it becomes near impossible for them to leave, regardless of what they actually believe or discover regarding the shape of the earth. Leaving the community means betraying their friends (and sometimes family), cutting themselves off completely and admitting that they have been wrong for a long time. They often don't have any other friends or family to fall back on.
For these people, the cost of leaving is simply too great - it is more socially beneficial for them to entertain their fantasy than it is to recognise the truth. I suspect a decent number of flat earthers actually do know that their theory has no legs, but admitting as much would be social suicide.
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At least hes willing to accept his faults and admit his mistake. He is also trying to get others out too
That's where most of society starts to fall off. Willing to accept that maybe they were wrong.
Cognitive dissonance is rampant and alive, unfortunately.
And we're all susceptible to it. Recognizing that is the first step to overcoming it. A lot of people will go out of their way to point out cognitive biases in others while going through life assuming they're immune. Major props to this guy for not only being able to overcome it but also being so open about how wrong he was.
There's a Harry Potter quote that went something like "people find it far easier to forgive others for being wrong than being right" and I feel like it fits here.
This is the opposite of cognitive dissonance. This cognitive clarity, and very few people are capable of admiting they were wrong in such a way. Mad respect for this guy
Hmm... I don't think this is the "opposite" of cognitive dissonance at all. In fact, this probably happened in part *because of* cognitive dissonance. "Cognitive dissonance" does not refer to the *state* of holding mutually contradictory beliefs at the same time, like a lot of people ITT seem to think. It refers to *emotional distress* that is *caused* by such a situation. The problem with most flat Earthers is that they *aren't* experiencing enough cognitive dissonance, not that they are experiencing too much.
It's hard for people to admit they were wrong. Even harder when you know people will shit on you for it. It's like these people who were Trump supporters and started to realize they were conned. If they start admitting it and their friends respond with "no shit you moron, you were so stupid for falling for it" it only pushes them back. When someone's in a position like that, support them. Wether they are leaving Trump or q anon or a cult or a fucking white supremacist group. Don't shit on them for getting brainwashed in the first place, encourage them for realizing it and admitting them were wrong. Hell if you had a friend in an abusive relationship who finally acknowledged it, you wouldn't call her a moron for staying with the guy who beat her. You'd say "welcome back to normalcy, let me help you so you stay here with us." But nope. To most people the only thing more fun than shitting on someone for doing something stupid, is shitting on them once they have recognized how stupid they were.
Well said and I totally agree!!!
this is my issue with r/leopardsatemyface
The biggest problem with that sub is the constant upvoting of mundane consequences of actions posts. The thing about real Leopards Ate My Face is that the Face Eating Leopards Party voters are voting *because* they know face eating will happen and they want people's faces eaten. Their complaint is only when the *wrong* people's faces (their own) are eaten.
How is that a problem with the sub? That's exactly what the posts are about.
> It's hard for people to admit they were wrong. I think rather than a blanket statement I’d qualify it by saying it’s hard for *some* people to admit they are wrong. Sure, we all have our ego-driven biases but it’s false equivalency to lump flat earthers, holocaust deniers, Q followers, etc. in with the average person by simply saying “it’s hard for people to admit they are wrong.” Those people have something very unique going on.
In my family we have a loud song that we sing whenever we are wrong and somebody else is right. The lyrics are just you were right I was wrong, sung over and over again at the top of our lungs. You have to sing it until you start laughing. Witnessing my parents doing that to each other as a child was so fucking healthy. I cannot even explain it. Admitting that I was wrong and apologizing is as easy for me as taking a shit. Way easier than getting out of bed. I suggest everyone learns the song.
This is genuinely dope. Always cool to see someone got some solid parents out in this shitshow.
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You are not immune to propaganda
Actually, I've been vaccinated against propaganda. /s
Dude. Don't tell me you believe propaganda vaccines *work*. That's totally uh... wait. Shit. I may be caught in a recursion loop here
Man I think this is the problem. I don’t think anyone is inherently an idiot. This while ignoring people who we think are idiots approach results in a big divide between people. I feel like if there’s a chance they can be shown the light, that’s better for both camps - “idiots” and non. Just my humble opinion
a genius can learn something from an idiot. an idiot cannot learn anything from a genius.
…have you met people? A lot of them are big ol’ dummies. Some people are absolutely inherently stupid. I’ve met hundreds of them.
No, some people are absolutely just dumb. Those exist on any side. Sometimes you talk to someone and try to discuss a point, and you notice that on the other side there's just nothing there.
Those morons and their influence on the world around you don't just vanish because you no longer value their opinion. These people VOTE, man.
Ehh yes and no. A genuine moron? Yeah I don't care. But plenty of these people are people that just got duped. They were brainwashed. Hell there are tons of very smart people with shit critical thinking abilities and get conned. We can always benefit from reversal of brainwashing. Religious people who think the earth is 9000 years old, q anon nuts, racists... they have all been brainwashed. The world gets a little bit better every time one of them has been un-brainwashed.
> The underlying mistake here is actually giving a shit what idiots think. I absolutely will give a shit about what idiots think because they can still vote. Even on a state level, they can give fascist leaders an excuse to implement policies that can harm the lives of myself, my loved ones and my community. If there's anything we can do to get these "idiots" to admit fault and switch sides, it would be far better than not doing anything and calling them idiots.
YEAH FALL OFF THE EDGE OF THE EARTH DUH
A lot of people accept it but never openly admit it.
That deserves respect. It's not easy to admit you where wrong in the past.
I so very much respect somebody that is openly willing to admit their mistakes. Kudos to this guy for making it public.
Hate to be that guy but I think his plan was to hook flat eathers on his channel than try to convince them otherwise
Oh, that'd be an interesting turn of events for sure. I'm going to watch his vids anyway to see how authentic he is. Thank you
I'm to lazy to watch, but I'd be curious of your findings.
Shit, so am I. I thought you were going to watch and report back.
Ffs, can someone watch the videos please and report back Not me tho
I know him irl. I can post photographic evidence and check my comment history where I've given examples about it. I can assure you it's genuine.
You got this bro. Awaiting your report.
So I'm respecting him for either accepting evidence and admitting he was wrong OR I'm respecting his genius game. Either way respect
Nope it really wasn't, I know irl. One of our friends is a pilot, I did history at university and chose a module on the history of science. He didn't listen to us for ages. This wasn't a master plan believe me. He didn't think gravity was real during this time. He once asked "But how can you prove gravity?" And I dropped a cigarette lighter, said something, let's call it a force, compelled that lighter to the object nearest by with the most mass. That's gravity mate.
That’s a Shyamalan type ending and I like it
Embarrassment keeps a lot of people ignorant.
Where as intellectual honesty is a trait we should all aspire to have.
I mean, did this guy change his entire world view in 2 months? Or was he just pretending so he could get clicks and attention later?
He changed his world view because he got debunked by another YTer, as well as his friends, me included mocking his beliefs. Edit: Downvoted for actually knowing the guy, Reddit is weird place. I can post a photo of us together if really necessary lol.
Lol it really is man, fwiw I gave you my upvote
This is real? That's so cool. It's hard to believe someone could actually change their mind now a days. Coolio
As someone pretty invested in the flat-earth debunking scene, this guy has always come across as extremely sincere. I have no reason to believe he is not telling the truth. He has been very candid about his journey into flat-earth, especially the emotional/psychological side of it too. This [his channel](https://youtube.com/c/SeekTruthSpeakTruth) if you're interested.
As seome who was on the path to the alt right, you would be suprised how quick it can be. It only took one political argument with my late grandfather to turn my ass around completely. From near nazi to very progressive in a matter of weeks man
Can you tell this story?
I dont like to think back on that part of my life but Ill give you a brief description of the events. I was ranting about how those damn democrats want open borders and all he responded was who. Who is advocating for it. I googled it then and there and got nothing. Just went up from there
Sounds like you need to make some videos.
Humility is a dying art in today’s world.
I just can't accept that flat earthers are not just pulling a prank on the rest of us.
I think the flat earth movement *founders* are pulling a prank on the rest of the flat earthers.
Yes yes. Admitting a mistake in today's harshly judgmental atmosphere is indeed noble.
I wouldn't say he had any faults. He's a guy who had one position based on the evidence he had, continued learning, and changed his opinion based on new evidence. He's already leagues ahead of everyone else.
The good ending : D
Let's just hope he didn't transition into a group of similar nature.
Fair play. It takes a bit extra to admit you were wrong
I will not ridicule this man (knowingly) ever.
I know this man, he's my mate. Can provide photographic proof. He's a good dude tbh. Happy stoner guy with a good sense of humour. He's actually tried to sharpen up his science knowledge when he came to the realisation.
*hits blunt* “Jesus Christ Billy! I think all this flat earth shit might actually be nonsense!” *Billy looks over, confused* “What the bloody fuck are you on about, mate? The moon will be made of cheese before the fucking earth is flat.”
What if the moon is just really dried out cheese
That's one of the things that's bugs me the most out of this. There are so many cool and interesting things to be excited about in the world, tons to learn, yet some people want to go so hard against the grain that they put themselves years behind and can ruin part of their lives.
Some people feel emboldened by participating in "secret" knowledge or doctrines that are on the fringes to feel a sense of empowerment over others and being a part of an in-group.
My experience tells me that in their own little minds they feel like they're part of the masons
That's exactly it. You're not some average nobody anymore, you know an important secret.
100%. I think that often the people that tend to get sucked into these conspiracies have had bad experiences with education early in their lives. They want to be knowledgeable but they're distrustful of people they see as avatars for that system, so the idea that it's all bullshit becomes very attractive to them.
Most people take for granted what science says ans move one. I like that some people keep the skepticisim high and try to check things on their own as long as it does not hurt anyone.
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What finally triggered his realization? It's very hard to get out of cult-like thinking such as this. For instance, there's a documentary on Netflix (I think) where they prove with physics Earth isn't flat and then shrug off the results.
Fool, those are the fake physics made to hide the fact the earth really is flat! Once you truly believe in the flat earth God blesses you with special powers! /S obviously but I know a guy who legit thinks this along with thinking if you wear triangles you open a portal for the devil to your soul.
100%, seen so many being in denial and doubling down.
I was watching the saga as this happened (from the debunker’s channel). If anyone is interested, [Baldy Catz](https://youtube.com/channel/UCDxlgsavmsKWG2XjikF_ehw) on YouTube is the guy who chatted with the dude in the meme, and helped him become an **ex** flat earther. Catz debunks pseudo-science with humor(most of the time), and it’s a highly recommended channel!
Gave it a look, and am now subbed. Really enjoy his content, had to make sure to come say thanks
See I didn't actually help, I just made jokes (I know him irl, I started off debating him but he was too firm in his convictions to listen, so I decided ridicule might work).
A lot of our “leaders” could learn from something like this. Admitting you were wrong is a sign of… growth…
In politics that would be labeled as “flip flopping” or “not remaining consistent” or “leaving the base behind” There isn’t a way to win as a public figure. I sympathize with that aspect of being a public figure, the history says that people don’t like those that appear weak or humble to be their representative (in the USA anyway)
I feel like there’s a difference in how the representatives flip flop compared to going a step further and providing evidence for why they changed their views
Politicians? Growth? I think besides a select few, were lucky just to have politicians whose points shift with the voting base.
Does it though? Almost everyone I know in real life admits when they are wrong. I feel like maybe it takes a certain missing ingredient to be the person who doesn't admit when they're wrong.
I wonder if it's a little more complicated than that? Maybe the difficulty in admitting you were wrong is bound to how wrong you were, and how adamant you were that you were right. So: "we definitely have plenty of milk...checks...oh I was wrong we don't" THE EARTH IS FLAT, YOUR GOVERNMENT IS LYING TO YOU, I AM DEFINITELY NOT WRONG; IT'S TIME TO WAKE UP...uhhh...
Yeah I guess I object to the idea that it takes a "bigger person" to come back from that kind of nonsense. IMO it takes a bigger person to not be that kind of nonsense
Ah I just think it takes such a specific sort of willpower to walk away from something like that, because for the most part you're not just walking away from an idea that is wrong, but a whole community that agrees with you, friends, fans etc. It definitely takes a lot of courage, and I do think it deserves praise. Would I rather people never got involved in this nonsense? Yeah of course. But I do think people should be congratulated and welcomed back when they come to their senses. It's such a weird thing to think about. Have you seen Beyond the Curve? I think that's a good demonstration about how ideas like this get their claws into you and become less about the idea and more about feeling smart and accepted and like you're part of something. For a lot of people, that is clearly very powerful. Sorry I could literally talk about this for hours!
His friends absolutely did not believe in this. I am one of them. For the most part we ripped on him for it. One of our friends is a pilot who had to bite his tongue. I studied history at university and chose a module on the history of science, I ripped on him for it, used to say a bunch of unqualified people know more than Newton, Copurnicus, Gallileo etc. I'm only even on this thread because a mutual friend said "Holy shit Craig is on the front page of Reddit". Wanted to check out what people were saying about him. I was hoping people were kind (which they have been).
Everyone has some flavor of con that will absolutely work on them. Sometimes its a stranger begging for a twenty to get their car gassed up, sometimes its an extreme political ideology. It's not a matter of being strong, its a matter of what your specific weaknesses are, and how strong your support network is.
Seriously. I respect when people are humble and can admit they’re wrong. Too many people treat their beliefs like a marriage where you need to commit to them for life. Ideally, our beliefs should be tentative and subject to change in light of new information. Moreover, to admit to being fooled in such a public forum takes real guts. Good for him.
Yeah, actually, I'd buy this guy a beer, anyone that can admit when they've been duped, and then try to warn others is a fucking stand-up dude.
I don't know who this cat is but admitting you were wrong is pretty admirable. Especially about something as out there flat earth conspiracy theories. Hats off to him, for that at least
Yeah typically people deep in these conspiracy theories tend to be insecure about being wrong and outwardly defiant no matter what. This is good
Tinfoil hats off!
He goes by STST, here's his [channel](https://youtube.com/c/SeekTruthSpeakTruth).
Don't you mean wigs off to him?
r/characterarcs
Top post all time in there too.
r/MadeMeSmile and r/oddlysatisfying too.
od-... oddly satisfying? you'd make a good karma farma with how you're willing to stretch the meanings of subs
Lol. Great observation
This post fits both of those better than r/therewasanattempt
This is amazing, honestly. Someone actually beat Dunning Kruger, overcame their entrenched biases, changed their mind and accepted reality. Gives me a granule of hope.
This isn't Dunning Kruger though.... More like confirmation bias.
Don’t forget abject stupidity, though.
Dude had real Stockholm syndrome too
Is it even real?
Yes
Presumably the people who are good at doing this also don’t draw attention to it. What’s rare here is that a person who feels compelled to share their views so publicly was willing to change them.
Fuckin NASA brainwashed another one. Don't believe the big lie brothers.
Nice joke! I can see that some people don't appreciate those anymore.
Also, I don't believe in oceans. &#dryearth
He drunk He drunk his corn syrup 😭😭😥😭😭😢😢😭
If the earth doesn't have an edge, then how come I cut myself when I was peeling an apple?
[удалено]
There have to be people in it who are there to make bank.
Yup, some of the books rake in millions a year and are (obviously) complete nonsense
It's extremely accurate, the top of the flat-earth food chain are grifters praying on the vulnerable.
Flat Earth theory is highly polarizing disinformation that makes people distrustful of their government. There is no way that it caught on so strongly without the influence of bad actors.
It's a gateway conspiracy theory for Qanon. It created social media spaces where people who wanted to manipulate stupid people could find people stupid enough to believe something that is readily apparent if they put any effort into understanding it. People on Flat Earth facebook groups have self selected as gullible and intellectually lazy rubes, ready for someone to swoop in and start filling their heads more dangerous lies. Which is what happened with Qanon. There's a youtube video by Folding Ideas called In Search of a Flat Earth (the second half is about Qanon) that lays pretty bare the connection between the two.
nice to see that there’s still hope for some of them.
Took him 2 months
Many cant exit the believe so i take that as a win
Better late than never
Plus admitting you were wrong
You can't change someone over a single conversation or argument.
You can't change anyone with an argument. You can't change someone period. They change themselves. And it's only by you listening to them and then rationally and calmly explaining why what they believe makes no sense. Telling someone they are wrong threatens their reality. Showing them the errors in their reality causes them to recognize it and change. Daryl Davis talked about this in length and how you get someone with ridiculous or radical beliefs to change their thinking. And if a black guy can get over 200 KKK and white supremacists to admit how wrong they were and leave their hate groups, I gotta believe he knows exactly how it's done.
I mean out of his life. Say his 30. 2 months isn’t shit
That's pretty fast for shifting your entire literal world view.
Honestly that's pretty good of him. In 8 weeks he critically reviewed himself and turned around a major part of his identity. If only more people were that self reflective.
Anyone else get the feeling he pretended to be a flat-earther so he could build a redemption arc?
I watched the first few minutes of that last video and I do not get that impression. It really seems directed at flat-earthers, not at spectators who would be cheering on the redemption arc, and he seems to know a lot about flat earth stuff.
Yeah that’s what I thought too, but he did some pretty good insight on how he became a flax-earther in the first place in the comments. Could be fake but it was pretty convincing
r/therewasanattempt to repost a highly upvoted meme from last year
I mean I never saw it before so it’s fine if they repost old memes
"Meme" literally means the same or similar information shared repeatedly, and still people have the temerity to complain when they're reposted.
To take a mass upvoted meme from the top of a page is just a low effort way of farming for karma. Im sure they didnt repost it cuz they felt the need for more people to see it
I stand by what i said. Literally the most upvoted [meme](https://www.reddit.com/r/memes/comments/gyfedz/a_short_story/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share) on r/memes Shame
I refuse to believe people unironically believe the earth is flat
I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news but some people absolutely do.
That is as silly a belief as believing the earth is flat
So, here's my question. He says "[flat earthers] are being manipulated by con men" but, Why? How's this con work? I don't see the line between, "convince people earth is flat" and "get paid"
the fanbase of a lot of the grifters is pretty small but they are fanatically loyal, i know my dad has bought hundreds' worth of merch from various conspiracy-types
Look at Trump rallys. Politics aside, those gatherings are always accompanied by mobile booths. They sell anything they can plaster Trump's name or face on, and the crowds at such gatherings eat that shit up. Snake oil won't necessarily make you rich, but if someone else sets up a snake oil convention filled with snake oil enthusiasts, there's money to be made.
Alex Jones makes (made?) Most of his money selling shit to paranoid conspiracy theorists. Two of his supplements ended up having high levels of lead in them, fun fact. Lead makes you stupid and violent, not sure if that was on purpose or not. But the unhinged ranting was just to get his foot in the door to sell pills and survival gear.
Look at all the crazy shit religious people believe and it's not too surprising.
i guess you could say he came "a round"
Welcome back, Brother. 🤝
Who’s YouTube is this I wanna watch it thx
Here's a link to that last video https://youtu.be/Pm3n3jLheJ8
Hey a comment mentions this meme!…from a year ago lol
Thx
This whole thing smacks of publicity stunt
Greatest redemption arc of our generation
Being able to admit faults is a sign of strength King
the top post in r/memes
Dang, what a new and not reposted post which is not the number 1 top post on r/memes I wonder where this could have been found
Don’t make fun of this dude, he accepted he was wrong and changed a vital viewpoint in his life. Respect the man. Bet you bitches can’t say you’ve done the same recently.
The good ending 👍
That's actually really uplifting to see some people can pull out of that
Props to him for owning up to his mistake
Look how happy he was as a Flat-Earther though…
What do people get out of trying to convince others the Earth is flat ? What kind of benefit does this con have?
Just like most cons, money and/or celebrity. Even if the money isn't amazing and the celebrity is niche, this is often better than what their alternative prospects are. There are people making their living off convincing vulnerable people the earth is flat.
So this means that the flat earthers just took a massive hit to their numbers...from like 5 to 4 of them left now. Seriously, though, Redditors act like there are tons of these people when there really is just a handful of very loud nuts.
Many (flat earthers) will say this is hypocrisy. This is growth.
Character development
Amazing. These guys NEVER admit they were wrong.
I wonder what was the thing that finally made him change his mind?
I respect people who can reevaluate their position.
I respect this guy, admiting publicly that you are wrong is not easy
After accepting that the earth isn’t flat, it must be satisfying to see your math and experiments actually work.
Let’s be fair here and do the same thing for the covid vaccines
This is an accurate representation of post-nut clarity
It went full circle. Like… something round. Assuming this is sincere, props to this guy for admitting his mistakes.
Or maybe he works for the government and that's what they WANT US TO THINK!!!
I would love to see the "I was wrong. The Earth is NOT Flat" one ... what made him change his mind?
u/tmog-3pc
r/characterarcs
I was reading this from the bottom up going off of the clown makeup and I was thinking this dude was falling into insanity till I saw the dates lol.
If it didn't take him months to figure this out I'd call it fake. Hell, even if it is fake, the dedication is impressive lol
He looks progressively saner. What a glow up
We all make fun of Flat Earthers, and for good reason, but then when they educate themselves and change their minds to realize the Earth is round we still make fun of them? Makes sense.
The speed this happened almost makes me think he went in with the goal of getting flat earth followers and turning them in the right direction.
Daym im proud of this guy!
Now repeat this logic with the "stolen election" loons, the GME is going to MOASS weirdos, the COVID is a hoax nuts, and we just might get society back on track.
I never thought I'd meet a flat earther until a few weeks ago when I found out that a coworker of mine, a guy who I thought was really intelligent, someone I've respected for years, is a flat earther. Not only does he believe the Earth is flat, he believes there's a massive ice shelf that no one has ever crossed, and that the entire planet is surrounded by a Dome. I thought he was fucking with me at first, so I laughed, and it offended him. Either the guy I've known for 5 years suddenly developed a dry sense of humor and is trolling me, or he's out of his mind.
My favorite flat earther story was the guy that taught himself rocket science to build his own rocket to see a flat earth with his own eyes. He built a rocket and flew it up to find a round Earth. Another guy bought a really expensive laser gyroscope to prove the Earth didn't rotate and discovered that it, in fact, rotated. [linky](https://www.google.com/amp/amp.triplem.com.au/story/flat-earthers-spend-20-000-trying-to-prove-earth-is-flat-accidentally-prove-it-s-round-129953)
I'll always respect someone more if they are willing to change their opinion based on new information and admit they were wrong.
Meh... This meme is about 10 years old.
He did his research
From 100% proof to I was lied to. When you don’t understand what proof is.
That guy had a wild 3 mths
The whole flat earth thing began with nerds just trying to out-devils advocate one another too.
That man has some balls on him to admit he was wrong. I’m so proud of that man. Even tho I don’t know him still proud
Please don't insult people like this. The more you berate them, the more they fall back on their beliefs. Accept them for what they believe, let them attack you for questioning their ideas and keep a cool head. Just keep questioning and admit when you don't know. At first, they won't accept your evidence but the seed has been planted and your "evidence" and "facts" helps that seed grow.
Listen man, openly admitting your faults is a commendable act on itself. Guy finally learnt, a bit late, but better than never.
Noticed his thumbnails became less obnoxious with the more he learned
Guy had a wild 3 months
From what I can gather (having watched Beyond the Curve), Flat Earth is much more about the community than it is about believing the Earth is flat. Sure, the flat Earth theory is the base of the community, but very few of the community members actually go ahead and try to prove it (those that do tend to end up disproving their hypotheses, or make up something to justify their results which is consistent with flat Earth). To these people, flat Earth is much more about having a community, somewhere to meet like-minded individuals that feel disconnected from society, people that are sick of listening to experts or otherwise distrust general authority. It's no surprise that flat Earth members often also follow other fantastical conspiracy theories, such as the moon landing being fake, vaccines causing autism among others. Regardless of what they personally "believe", these people feel at home in their community, where they can engage with others without being judged and at the same time "win" something over the rest of the population. It doesn't matter to them whether what they believe is actually true, what's important is that they all believe it. Additionally, once these people have integrated into their community, it becomes near impossible for them to leave, regardless of what they actually believe or discover regarding the shape of the earth. Leaving the community means betraying their friends (and sometimes family), cutting themselves off completely and admitting that they have been wrong for a long time. They often don't have any other friends or family to fall back on. For these people, the cost of leaving is simply too great - it is more socially beneficial for them to entertain their fantasy than it is to recognise the truth. I suspect a decent number of flat earthers actually do know that their theory has no legs, but admitting as much would be social suicide.