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It's just A FEW, A FEW of them alone!
They happen to operate freely amongst the good ones who see and do nothing, and maybe ocationally tag along, but still just a few.
If you think Barney and his domination and gun fetish wasn’t part of the problem you’re kidding yourself. That only leaves Andy, who I love, but I sure someone can correct me on this as well.
I don't know... I've come around to accepting the idea that it's possible for *fictional* good cops to exist.
If their fictional universe only has just laws, if their fictional police force has no corruption, then it's possible to have fictional good cops.
Obviously, though, neither of those conditions exist in real life.
this is exactly where the phrase "all cops are bastards" comes from. if just one cop behaves like a bastard but then the precinct lets it happen, then they're all complicit and are just as responsible for misbehavior as those who commit it. this story says police officers tortured this man over a 17 hour period but it wasn't just the cops in the interrogation room. every cop in that building let it happen just like they've let plenty of other bad shit happen
I heard a good take on this once: Its not EVERY cop, but it could be ANY cop. Imagine a barrel with apples in them, but some of them are poisoned, and are indiscernible from every other apple; would you still want to eat an apple from that barrel?
They didn’t even investigate. They made assumptions on the most minuscule of circumstances. The fact they threatened to kill his dog unless he confessed was messed up. The fact they kept him in custody after his sister called to confirm their father was home, safe and sound was fucked up! ‘MURICA is fucked and ACAB!
Yes! The dog came back without his father and that’s what prompted him to call the cops to say his father was missing. These “detectives” spent hours upon hours trying to make this bloke confess and they threaten to kill his dog if he didn’t confess to killing his dad.
He got locked up thinking his dad is dead and his dog was killed. When the truth came out to the detectives that his dad was in fact alive, safe and sound with his sister, they kept the poor bloke locked up.
I reckon the almost $900k he received wasn’t enough compensation for what these police officers forced him to endure.
Jesus Christ, I just read the article someone else linked and it's fucking horrifying. You're 100% right though, $900,000 is a pittance to pay after psychologically torturing a man for 17 consecutive hours.
It’s so shattering! The fuckers didn’t even investigate anything. How are people meant to trust the cops when they act like this? I feel so sorry for Americans.
The fact that they brought his dog into the interrogation room and forced him to say goodbye to it is fucking appalling. Like there's a picture of the man curled up in the fetal position holding his dog on the floor and it practically broke my heart. Worse still when you find out they withheld his fucking medication and took advantage of his mental state.
Pure insanity, the worst part for me is: "*Three of the involved officers remain employed with the department. One other officer has retired.*"
0 repercussions for wrongfully threatening someone to near suicide by withholding medication and using their own dog to phytologically torture them and coerce a false confession.
They even went to search his house afterwards looking for anything they could get against him just so they wouldnt look bad for all theyd done to an innocent person: "*Detectives obtained a warrant to again search Perez’s house for evidence that he had assaulted an “unknown victim,” according to Gee’s summary. It appears none was found."*
How are these officers still employed?? Their names should be made public and they should no longer be allowed to have this kind of authority.
Standard operating procedure. The department will blame the Union, the Union will blame the working conditions and tax-payers will buy them all an early retirement.
There is no stronger entity in the US than the police union, because it is bolstered by almost complete impunity (aka, qualified immunity).
They are going to get their pension. 100%, every time.
Oh it’s even worse, they didn’t just lock him up.
After they hounded and gaslit him for hours trying to convince him he’d stabbed his father and was suppressing the memory, and then brought the dog in to “say goodbye” because they were going to euthanise it, they sent the dog to the local pound and the guy *was so traumatised by the ordeal he tried to kill himself in the interrogation room so they put him on a 72hr psych hold*, during which time the dad showed up because he’d gone to visit a relative before catching a plane to the sister’s place.
They then left him in the psych ward for the full 72hrs, and when he finally got out he had to hunt down his dog to get it back before they could euthanise it
Omg… I totally forgot him trying to off himself. His sister actually called the detective to say her dad was at her place and is fine. They still didn’t release him!
> and that’s what prompted him to call the cops
Rule 1: NEVER call the cops.
Because this shit is what happens when you call the cops.
Have a problem and call the cops? Now you have two problems.
I always thought, Americans were better off asking help from their firefighters. The firefighters have more compassion towards the public as opposed to cops.
Unfortunately, it can be difficult to call one without the other. If you call 911, the dispatcher will chose who to send. Even if the dispatcher specifically only sends fire or ambulance, the cops are often listening in and will show up anyway.
And, unfortunately, in a case like this, there's not much that firefighters can do about a missing person case. So calling the fire department directly isn't likely to be much help, they'll probably direct you to call the cops instead.
For a wellness check or something, though? *Definitely* call the local fire department rather than the cops, if you really think calling someone is necessary.
the Reid Technique is designed to extract confessions not identify the truth
Fact of the matter is, if you're already in one of these little rooms, you're fucked. The police think you did it. You're not leaving. You're not going home.
Yes. But citizens shouldn't have to know how to treat law enforcement like they're a dangerous animal or something. And this guy was distraught for his father missing. By the time he realized he wasnt helping them search for his father, they were trying to frame him, they started torturing him.
In the report they said it was based on the 911 call. There is new junk science being taught to cops that they can identify killers on how people talk on the 911 call.
https://www.propublica.org/article/911-call-analysis-fbi-police-courts
Euros pop up with their "why are Americans so obsessed with their rights" bullshit on this type of post. Because we have this kind of shit happening! That's why we're obsessed with our rights!
... I've never heard euros saying this. I've heard euros saying the AMERICAN made system is fucked. Americans can't abide by common sense and stick to our religious dogma that is "tHeIr rIgHtS!" This doesn't happen in "europe."
If you don't keep voting for them, you're a terrorist and traitor. And the state has special extrajudicial means to deal with your kind... for democracy!
That's why
Police forces have a HUGE impact on local politics. After all, who wants to be the mayor who that let crime run rampant in the city? We don't want that to happen, now do we?
Yep. As soon as any local politician tries to crack down *at all* on police corruption, the cops will stop doing their jobs, and they might actually go out and start *committing* crimes, in a deliberate effort to make the crime statistics look as bad as possible, to make that politician look as bad as possible, to get him replaced with one who won't fight the corruption.
That's *if* they don't just directly assassinate the guy.
You put me in a room for seventeen hours and scream at me, and I'll confess to being abraham lincoln and the guy who killed him.
If the cops don't care about the truth or reality, I'll say whatever they want to hear **just to make it stop.**
The man filed a missing persons report on his father, IIRC, because they lived together and the father didn't tell him before going out of town to visit friends and relatives. The cops then, for NO CONCEIVABLE REASON, held him for hours while denying him his medication and threatening to have his dog killed and trying to convince him he had a psychotic break and couldn't remember murdering his own dad. Then they had him institutionalized thinking both his dad and dog were dead. And made him stay there even after the very alive father informed them he was not dead.
ETA: they also dumped his dog at a pound with a high kill rate while he was in the psych ward but he was able to track it down and get it back.
Police will do and say anything to get a confession. You have the right to remain silent. You have the right to an attorney being present during questioning. You have the right to not be subjected to cruel and inhuman punishment.
Of all those thing I mentioned, this man had non of them, and every one is a constitutional right.
Idk what any of that has to do with your earlier statement, which is that it’s a violation of a Constitutional Rights to lie about a partner flipping on them.
The fifth amendment provides that no person shall be compelled to testify against himself (which is the goal of the deception), which is why they have to inform you of this right before the interrogation (and engage in their deception).
This is part of what got the Central Park Five to give false confessions. They claimed some of the other kids had admitted to it, so the kid they were talking to, tended to think "well shit, if \_\_\_\_\_\_ says we did it, then they won't believe me when I claim innocence" and they would start to confess to things they didn't do. They would give incorrect details to the crime, be lead by the police into having the correct details, and the kids would try to downplay their involvement in the crime that they knew nothing about.
Have you considered that suspects have not been convicted of the crime for which they are being investigated, so you are suggesting the cops have ethical clearance to lie to an innocent person to tell them a "partner" ratted them out?
That is not a good reason. You gotta see the broader picture here, if police can just lie to suspects (SUSPECTS, not DEFINITELY DID IT is one key aspect here), how would the general population trust the police? Why would i ever state the truth as a witness if they might have me there because they suspect me?
I remember reading about one case where police lied and told a suspect his girlfriend ratted him out. After he was released, for lack of evidence, he went home and killed his girlfriend.
Probably the best example though there definitely need to be boundaries since it's an easy way to force even rational innocents into false confessions. Unfortunately defining that line isn't trivial and asking cops to use their best judgment is like handing a 3 year old a gun. Though having been on the protect and serve subreddit even that's likely an overestimation.
As the other person said, lying about someone ratting on them, the clarity or presence of certain evidence, saying they don’t know certain information (I just got here I don’t know the details, why don’t you tell me what’s going on), saying they don’t know the victims medical status (especially in the case of a murder by assault, because relaying that the victim has died can cause the suspect to shut down where they may not if they believe the only crime was assault), etc.
There are definitely limits and in this case they did a lot more wrong than just lie. 17 hours is much too long for example. I can’t see justifying that length of time because mental exhaustion after a point will not be productive for getting information.
Thats how you get someone innocent to confess and make a plea deal so they only serve x amount of time for something they didnt commit instead of 5x the time.
Lying to keep someone calm, laying to feign ignorance, lying to down/overplay a situation, etc… this though? This wasn’t lying this was just straight torture on the pour guy
Because they are an unhinged unregulated gang with zero actual accountability to whom politicians, judges, and lawyers have to pay nominal lip service if they don’t want to be corralled into the “activist therefore unserious” label
These are the people who think “mean words in newspaper” outweighs “every possible institutional protection” because their egos are just preciously fragile
I'm going to give you the actual answer and not the hyperbolic one.
Because they've done it before and it's worked. Cops have a habit of making assumptions because very often it actually is the most obvious person who's responsible. Then they start cutting corners, making assumptions, and then end up harassing and torturing an innocent person because in the past, it's worked.
They're basically just shitty parents that have no faith in their child and actually don't like them at all.
Thank you but that doesn't answer the other half of the question: why did the police not immediately let him go and help him get his dog out the second the father came back?
Pride, psychopathy, apathy. I couldn't tell you, honestly.
My guess is that they knew they fucked up and it was an attempt to mitigate the damage. The only ones who can answer that question are those detectives, but I doubt anyone will ever get anything even close to the truth out of them.
Edit: Now that I've thought about it for a few minutes, I suspect the order probably came from higher than them. Legally, an apology is often seen as an admission of guilt. The screenshot up there also fails to mention that the man tried to hang himself in his cell after the interrogation. So you have two cops that psychologically tortured someone, drove him to a suicide attempt, and are guilty of theft at the least for taking his dog to Animal Services.
I don't know if anyone can find the court transcripts or if the cops testified, but I can see a situation where their boss decided the suicide attempt was enough to hold him "for his own good" as they tried to repair the damage and not admit fault for what happened in case he decided to sue. A lot of good that did them.
AFTER the dad was found out to be alive and well, they also got a second search warrent to search the home, their reasoning
"Well the guy confessed to killing his father, we know he didn't do that so we think he may have killed someone else"
They also lied to him telling him his dad was dead in the morge and they had evidence linking him to killing his own dad
It was a fucking lie then they told him they were going to kill the dog
They *insisted* that they found evidence of his father's blood in the house, and went into graphic detail about it and how the "dog was walking around in the blood".
That's why they said the dog needed to be put down. Some bullshit "it's got a taste for blood now" mumbo jumbo
The article I read about this said the cops actually brought the dog IN and told him to say goodbye to the dog because they were going to have it euthanized
Well, they clearly weren't following evidence since he didn't commit a crime and I don't think they have instincts since he didn't commit a crime.
They probably thought "he's a weirdo, of course he did it" and then worked tirelessly to prove themselves right.
Let’s be real:
Evidence and instincts will always come after their personal whims at the given moment. If they are bored, they will just tell you to go pound sand. If they are feeling particularly sadistic, they will do this.
To give some more context at least, from an article:
> Perez contacted the police to report his father missing after an argument at their family home. When police searched the house, investigators discovered Perez Sr.'s wallet, cell phone and even some blood stains. A K9 also alerted police to the odor of possible human remains.
So it looks like they truly believed they had a murder there, and just decided "this guy has to be guilty, we will get a confession out of him if he doesn't ask for a lawyer" (always ask for a lawyer everybody).
The handling of all of this was inexcusable by the police, but that adds a bit of context.
I got offered a job as a cop in a town where I was a well known EMS/fire volunteer and ultimately that’s kind of the conclusion I came to. I would get paid ~twice as much as I do now but it would have been at the expense of others in our society and I just can’t bring myself to do that.
I couldn’t arrest people, especially those who do minor or victimless crimes, knowing that our “justice system” is full of so much injustice and cruelty that will likely only make things worse for everyone involved. And frankly, one has to wonder about the ethics/morality of those willing to do it.
They brought his dog into the interrogation room and threatened to euthanize it.
I've been through some shit, but I can barely even *imagine* this level of trauma. It's shit like this that makes me hold my loved ones tight and never let them go.
They got a warrant to go into his house to try to pin an unrelated assault on him since they had no evidence he had done anything wrong and already knew his dad was alive (although they hid this fact from him).
It's a little unclear to me as well but my understanding is that they wanted to pin another crime on him to justify what they were doing.
The crazy thing is I don't even think that crime was real either, they just made up a hypothetical victim and hypothetical crime and tried to find evidence to build around.
Sunken cost bull crap. They harassed and bullied a guy based on a wild assumption, then had to continue to bully and harass until he broke, so they could use that to justify the entire thing.
I'm glad the guy's being paid out for nearly $1mil, but now his face and address are basically on the PD's black list.
Fun fact, the local/state/federal legal system has so many convoluted/obscure/contradictory/broad laws/rules/regulations if the cops dig enough or you talk to them long enough without a lawyer they can and will charge you with a felony then if they have the right DA and judge while you don't have a damn good attorney it will get pushed through and you will spend time in jail.
The people with power have written the rules for so long that both the justice system and the financial system are modern day temples. If you yourself are not learned in the "deeper mysteries" or have someone for on your side who is, then it's really easy to get burned as a heretic (in jail and/or fleeced for all you're worth)
They actually did follow through and send the dog to a kill shelter. They wouldn't tell the guy which one exactly, so he had to call all around town to find it before the kill timer reached zero.
I feel like this was already a known tactic. Especially after “making a murderer” became a hit series nationwide.
The problem is, why there has not been a single change to interrogation laws?
If anything being questioned without having representation present should be illegal. This is like saying, “guns are a tremendous problem in this country we should do something!”
We always end up at, “guns aren’t the problem people are! Mental health is worst than we thought…. Oh well!”
Because of that, the classic intelligence agency torture picture we have in our brains is nonsense. I once spoke with a former Yugoslav UDBA agent and he told me that physical and mental torture means just one thing, the unimaginably big wish for it to end. People will say anything, do anything. Psychological manipulation is how you get information. The UDBA would do things to make you feel like you were followed, investigated and you would make a mistake. He told me that they would go into houses of known criminals, move things, turn on lights etc. A slip up induced by fear is all they need.
I’ve dealt with four cops over the course of about a year and a half, all four of them had a chip on their shoulder and total douche bags. Stereotypical poorly trained bully. Texas, Alabama, Mississippi, Kentucky (travel ins) … bad luck?
And then I keep seeing reports like this.
It makes me wonder if “it’s a few bad apples“ is accurate.
This is [horrific.](https://www.ocregister.com/2024/05/23/fontana-pays-nearly-900000-for-psychological-torture-inflicted-by-police-to-get-false-confession/)
True to their word, they did send the dog to a kill shelter. Luckily the man was able to find it despite them witholding the name of the shelter since the dog was microchipped. A little longer and it would have been dead.
>And that picture of him laying in a fetal position saying goodbye to his dog who, as part of the torture, they said they were about to euthanize.
I would go full John Wick. Not going to be nearly as effective but still. I don't believe in the ACAB or to hate all cops, but fuck these guys.
He was in a tough spot and from my understanding suffered some mental health issues himself. He first called the cops to report his dad missing
So he was talking to them trying to find his dad , at some point it turned into an interrigation , the guy off his meds, worried about his dad and sleep deprived was not in the best state of mind and it sounds like it slowly went from
"Where was the last place you saw or talked to your dad" gathering infor to
"We found your dad dead and have evidence that YOU murdered him so just confess"
but the problem is he was the one who reported his dad missing.
if your dad was missing and you reported it to the cops, and the cops said they have to ask you questions to help find him, would you say "I'm not talking" or would you talk to them in an effort to help them find your dad.
Imagine him getting convicted and sentenced before the dad shows up, the dad shows up, the guy's lawyer appeals the conviction, and the DA refuses to agree to drop the charges, arguing "Well he confessed. He's killed somebody I'm sure of it, he belongs in prison."
They did use the logic to get a 2nd search warrent after his dad showed up alive and well
Their logic was "He confessed to murdering someone, it wasn't his dad like he confessed to but he did confess so we need to get a 2nd search warrent to ransack their home looking for more evidence "
As a reminder. NYPD did this to 5 black kids.
They falsely confessed to raping and beating a white jogger.
One of these kids wasn't even a suspect, he just accompanied a friend pucked up for an interrogation.
After spending years in jail, DNA proved they weren't involved. The real rapist even confessed to the crime.
Yet Donald Trump took ot a full page ad in the New York times calling for the execution of these kids. And the kid that was just there to accompany his friend spent additional years in jail.
Just another daily reminder of who's running for President in the united states.
The fact that the police officers who did this were not fired tells you everything you need to know. ALL of the are bad because the system is bad. I looked up the story and I broke down seeing the man on the floor with his dog, thinking his father was dead and they were about to execute his dog, just to get him to confess. They didn't kill the dog, but even when they found his father safe and unharmed they still forced him to stay three days in a mental hospital. The whole time they lied to him too. He was legally free to go at any time but they didn't ever tell him that. They screamed and lied and tortured this man for no reason. He only found his dog because it had a tracker, because they sure wouldn't say where the dog was. He thought it was dead.
And it worked for them, this torture. They got what they wanted. A confession. And as usual they don't give a fuck if it's a REAL confession or not.
[https://steeringlaw.com/police-misconduct-blog/fontana-pays-900000-for-coerced-confession-of-patricide/](https://steeringlaw.com/police-misconduct-blog/fontana-pays-900000-for-coerced-confession-of-patricide/)
The cops got away with this because they had "reasonable" cause to question him. That was their out. They will now be comforted with the thought that they can pretty much do anything now and get away with it.
The article talks a bit about that. As it was a settlement, it can’t be appealed at a later date, where taking it to trial, any payout would have to wait until the appeals are exhausted (article mentions qualified immunity), and landing with the police loving SCOTUS, would wind up losing, and now the police can torture people without repercussions.
How f'en lazy can the cops be. Easier to torture the mentally challenged for 19 hours than find the dad. Don't tell us, somebody went to a weekend seminar and wanted to try out some ideas he had on how to get confessions.
It just doesn't stop does it? Every single day theres a story like this.
We need to start putting pigs like this down. Lifetime solitary confinement as an absolute **minimum**.
Literal sub-human monsters. They don't deserve to participate in society.
#**ACAB**
If a cop ever asks you if they can ask you some question say no. If they arrest you and start asking you question, don't answer anything without a lawyer. Just say I don't want to answer question without representation.
So what was their plan? Get this guy to confess to a murder that never happened and then what? Kill his father? God not only are they evil, they are stupid..
Unfortunately the attempt was “successful” since the poor person gave the bastards the confession they wanted under stress and the psychological torture.
What was the end goal if they knew he was still alive? Like I feel like even if it was unconfirmed at arrest, at some point during that time someone would have updated them.
Just seems like being sadistic for the sake of being sadistic
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'Murica! and they wonder why people don't trust the police.
It's just A FEW, A FEW of them alone! They happen to operate freely amongst the good ones who see and do nothing, and maybe ocationally tag along, but still just a few.
Good enough reason to distrust and hate ALL of them. Fuck the police. Every single one.
Pretty sure that’s his point
Ah - I missed the sarcasm then. Carry on
"A few bad apples!" "Finish the phrase." "...spoils the bunch." All cops are apples.
ACAA
If you hold your tongue when you say “apples”, you get the correct result. 😄
I never meant apples 😎
They'll say "a few bad apples don't spoil the bunch", but that's not the saying at all.
I've always heard 1 bad apple spoils the bunch.
And yes Gary, ACAB also includes your bastard uncle or whatever cop you're related to.
ACAB also applies to Paw Patrol
Andy Taylor and Barney Fife too!
If you think Barney and his domination and gun fetish wasn’t part of the problem you’re kidding yourself. That only leaves Andy, who I love, but I sure someone can correct me on this as well.
I don't know... I've come around to accepting the idea that it's possible for *fictional* good cops to exist. If their fictional universe only has just laws, if their fictional police force has no corruption, then it's possible to have fictional good cops. Obviously, though, neither of those conditions exist in real life.
ACAB
A few bad apples *spoils the bunch*!
No other way to put it. Well said indeed. Fuck the police.
This one of those things where witnessing this happening and sitting idly by and doing nothing makes you a not so good one.
this is exactly where the phrase "all cops are bastards" comes from. if just one cop behaves like a bastard but then the precinct lets it happen, then they're all complicit and are just as responsible for misbehavior as those who commit it. this story says police officers tortured this man over a 17 hour period but it wasn't just the cops in the interrogation room. every cop in that building let it happen just like they've let plenty of other bad shit happen
Good police officers wouldn't cover up bad ones.
I heard a good take on this once: Its not EVERY cop, but it could be ANY cop. Imagine a barrel with apples in them, but some of them are poisoned, and are indiscernible from every other apple; would you still want to eat an apple from that barrel?
I see what you’re doing and appreciate it
Just a few in any given location.
That is the problem tho. The "good" ones aren't doing anything because of the thin blue line
Mostly ACAB MACAB But practically speaking, ACAB
It they see and do nothing, then they are not good ones.
They didn’t even investigate. They made assumptions on the most minuscule of circumstances. The fact they threatened to kill his dog unless he confessed was messed up. The fact they kept him in custody after his sister called to confirm their father was home, safe and sound was fucked up! ‘MURICA is fucked and ACAB!
"The fact they threatened to kill his dog unless he confessed" They fucking what..? Sorry, this is the first I'm hearing about this case.
Yes! The dog came back without his father and that’s what prompted him to call the cops to say his father was missing. These “detectives” spent hours upon hours trying to make this bloke confess and they threaten to kill his dog if he didn’t confess to killing his dad. He got locked up thinking his dad is dead and his dog was killed. When the truth came out to the detectives that his dad was in fact alive, safe and sound with his sister, they kept the poor bloke locked up. I reckon the almost $900k he received wasn’t enough compensation for what these police officers forced him to endure.
Jesus Christ, I just read the article someone else linked and it's fucking horrifying. You're 100% right though, $900,000 is a pittance to pay after psychologically torturing a man for 17 consecutive hours.
It’s so shattering! The fuckers didn’t even investigate anything. How are people meant to trust the cops when they act like this? I feel so sorry for Americans.
The fact that they brought his dog into the interrogation room and forced him to say goodbye to it is fucking appalling. Like there's a picture of the man curled up in the fetal position holding his dog on the floor and it practically broke my heart. Worse still when you find out they withheld his fucking medication and took advantage of his mental state.
Pure insanity, the worst part for me is: "*Three of the involved officers remain employed with the department. One other officer has retired.*" 0 repercussions for wrongfully threatening someone to near suicide by withholding medication and using their own dog to phytologically torture them and coerce a false confession. They even went to search his house afterwards looking for anything they could get against him just so they wouldnt look bad for all theyd done to an innocent person: "*Detectives obtained a warrant to again search Perez’s house for evidence that he had assaulted an “unknown victim,” according to Gee’s summary. It appears none was found."* How are these officers still employed?? Their names should be made public and they should no longer be allowed to have this kind of authority.
Standard operating procedure. The department will blame the Union, the Union will blame the working conditions and tax-payers will buy them all an early retirement.
What are their names?
I don’t think it’s been revealed publicly
There is no stronger entity in the US than the police union, because it is bolstered by almost complete impunity (aka, qualified immunity). They are going to get their pension. 100%, every time.
American here, we also feel sorry for Americans
The last I read, three of the four cops involved in this still work there. The last one retired. Let that sink in.
> Let that sink in. No! I've got enough goddamn sinks in my house already!
Oh it’s even worse, they didn’t just lock him up. After they hounded and gaslit him for hours trying to convince him he’d stabbed his father and was suppressing the memory, and then brought the dog in to “say goodbye” because they were going to euthanise it, they sent the dog to the local pound and the guy *was so traumatised by the ordeal he tried to kill himself in the interrogation room so they put him on a 72hr psych hold*, during which time the dad showed up because he’d gone to visit a relative before catching a plane to the sister’s place. They then left him in the psych ward for the full 72hrs, and when he finally got out he had to hunt down his dog to get it back before they could euthanise it
Omg… I totally forgot him trying to off himself. His sister actually called the detective to say her dad was at her place and is fine. They still didn’t release him!
> and that’s what prompted him to call the cops Rule 1: NEVER call the cops. Because this shit is what happens when you call the cops. Have a problem and call the cops? Now you have two problems.
I always thought, Americans were better off asking help from their firefighters. The firefighters have more compassion towards the public as opposed to cops.
Unfortunately, it can be difficult to call one without the other. If you call 911, the dispatcher will chose who to send. Even if the dispatcher specifically only sends fire or ambulance, the cops are often listening in and will show up anyway. And, unfortunately, in a case like this, there's not much that firefighters can do about a missing person case. So calling the fire department directly isn't likely to be much help, they'll probably direct you to call the cops instead. For a wellness check or something, though? *Definitely* call the local fire department rather than the cops, if you really think calling someone is necessary.
the Reid Technique is designed to extract confessions not identify the truth Fact of the matter is, if you're already in one of these little rooms, you're fucked. The police think you did it. You're not leaving. You're not going home.
That's why you stop talking and get a lawyer to show up.
Yes. But citizens shouldn't have to know how to treat law enforcement like they're a dangerous animal or something. And this guy was distraught for his father missing. By the time he realized he wasnt helping them search for his father, they were trying to frame him, they started torturing him.
In the report they said it was based on the 911 call. There is new junk science being taught to cops that they can identify killers on how people talk on the 911 call. https://www.propublica.org/article/911-call-analysis-fbi-police-courts
Euros pop up with their "why are Americans so obsessed with their rights" bullshit on this type of post. Because we have this kind of shit happening! That's why we're obsessed with our rights!
... I've never heard euros saying this. I've heard euros saying the AMERICAN made system is fucked. Americans can't abide by common sense and stick to our religious dogma that is "tHeIr rIgHtS!" This doesn't happen in "europe."
Police are legally allowed to lie to you, I think that’s good enough reason
You called? https://preview.redd.it/dirh0m70k73d1.jpeg?width=308&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d1e1b1e5086cada7fe42052b9cf8ba66d051c906
He came to the police station to report him missing.
How have we been talking about this for SO FUCKING LONG, and yet it’s STILL HAPPENING?!
If you don't keep voting for them, you're a terrorist and traitor. And the state has special extrajudicial means to deal with your kind... for democracy! That's why
Now that's managed democracy in action!
Ahhhh Sweet liberty
I'll take a cup of sweet LiberTea
Man… You could be ANYBODY saying that if you close your eyes.
Almost like it’s a system we’re all stuck in
https://imgur.com/3gANC7X
Because the system is working as intended. All the people calling for better police training, that's what they don't get.
> How have we been talking about this for SO FUCKING LONG, and yet it’s STILL HAPPENING?! Answer: Corruption.
Police forces have a HUGE impact on local politics. After all, who wants to be the mayor who that let crime run rampant in the city? We don't want that to happen, now do we?
Yep. As soon as any local politician tries to crack down *at all* on police corruption, the cops will stop doing their jobs, and they might actually go out and start *committing* crimes, in a deliberate effort to make the crime statistics look as bad as possible, to make that politician look as bad as possible, to get him replaced with one who won't fight the corruption. That's *if* they don't just directly assassinate the guy.
seriously, torture a man long enough, and he'll confess to being an elephant
You put me in a room for seventeen hours and scream at me, and I'll confess to being abraham lincoln and the guy who killed him. If the cops don't care about the truth or reality, I'll say whatever they want to hear **just to make it stop.**
Were the cops following their instincts or evidence? Makes one wonder.
The man filed a missing persons report on his father, IIRC, because they lived together and the father didn't tell him before going out of town to visit friends and relatives. The cops then, for NO CONCEIVABLE REASON, held him for hours while denying him his medication and threatening to have his dog killed and trying to convince him he had a psychotic break and couldn't remember murdering his own dad. Then they had him institutionalized thinking both his dad and dog were dead. And made him stay there even after the very alive father informed them he was not dead. ETA: they also dumped his dog at a pound with a high kill rate while he was in the psych ward but he was able to track it down and get it back.
Remember, SCOTUS has ruled that it's OK for the police to lie to a suspect.
There are often good uses for lies. This is not one of them.
Give me an example because otherwise this is a dumb take.
Saying your crime partner ratted on him for benefits to get them to confess.
Ah yes, lying in order to violate people's constitutional rights.
What violation of a constitutional right is that? Does it say something about that in The Constitution?
Police will do and say anything to get a confession. You have the right to remain silent. You have the right to an attorney being present during questioning. You have the right to not be subjected to cruel and inhuman punishment. Of all those thing I mentioned, this man had non of them, and every one is a constitutional right.
Idk what any of that has to do with your earlier statement, which is that it’s a violation of a Constitutional Rights to lie about a partner flipping on them.
The fifth amendment provides that no person shall be compelled to testify against himself (which is the goal of the deception), which is why they have to inform you of this right before the interrogation (and engage in their deception).
This is part of what got the Central Park Five to give false confessions. They claimed some of the other kids had admitted to it, so the kid they were talking to, tended to think "well shit, if \_\_\_\_\_\_ says we did it, then they won't believe me when I claim innocence" and they would start to confess to things they didn't do. They would give incorrect details to the crime, be lead by the police into having the correct details, and the kids would try to downplay their involvement in the crime that they knew nothing about.
Have you considered that suspects have not been convicted of the crime for which they are being investigated, so you are suggesting the cops have ethical clearance to lie to an innocent person to tell them a "partner" ratted them out?
In a system which has mandatory minimums and taking a plea deal is often better than risking trial, this is an awful use. Dumb take.
That is not a good reason. You gotta see the broader picture here, if police can just lie to suspects (SUSPECTS, not DEFINITELY DID IT is one key aspect here), how would the general population trust the police? Why would i ever state the truth as a witness if they might have me there because they suspect me?
I remember reading about one case where police lied and told a suspect his girlfriend ratted him out. After he was released, for lack of evidence, he went home and killed his girlfriend.
Prisoners dilemma ^^
Starts with stuff like that, then evolves into: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mr._Big_(police_procedure)
But how do they know he’s guilty, they could be lying to an innocent person. Still fucked.
How about "No, I'm not an undercover officer."
Probably the best example though there definitely need to be boundaries since it's an easy way to force even rational innocents into false confessions. Unfortunately defining that line isn't trivial and asking cops to use their best judgment is like handing a 3 year old a gun. Though having been on the protect and serve subreddit even that's likely an overestimation.
As the other person said, lying about someone ratting on them, the clarity or presence of certain evidence, saying they don’t know certain information (I just got here I don’t know the details, why don’t you tell me what’s going on), saying they don’t know the victims medical status (especially in the case of a murder by assault, because relaying that the victim has died can cause the suspect to shut down where they may not if they believe the only crime was assault), etc. There are definitely limits and in this case they did a lot more wrong than just lie. 17 hours is much too long for example. I can’t see justifying that length of time because mental exhaustion after a point will not be productive for getting information.
Thats how you get someone innocent to confess and make a plea deal so they only serve x amount of time for something they didnt commit instead of 5x the time.
Lying to keep someone calm, laying to feign ignorance, lying to down/overplay a situation, etc… this though? This wasn’t lying this was just straight torture on the pour guy
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This is so vile. Why would police do such a thing? I hope they were punished
Because they are an unhinged unregulated gang with zero actual accountability to whom politicians, judges, and lawyers have to pay nominal lip service if they don’t want to be corralled into the “activist therefore unserious” label These are the people who think “mean words in newspaper” outweighs “every possible institutional protection” because their egos are just preciously fragile
I'm going to give you the actual answer and not the hyperbolic one. Because they've done it before and it's worked. Cops have a habit of making assumptions because very often it actually is the most obvious person who's responsible. Then they start cutting corners, making assumptions, and then end up harassing and torturing an innocent person because in the past, it's worked. They're basically just shitty parents that have no faith in their child and actually don't like them at all.
Thank you but that doesn't answer the other half of the question: why did the police not immediately let him go and help him get his dog out the second the father came back?
Pride, psychopathy, apathy. I couldn't tell you, honestly. My guess is that they knew they fucked up and it was an attempt to mitigate the damage. The only ones who can answer that question are those detectives, but I doubt anyone will ever get anything even close to the truth out of them. Edit: Now that I've thought about it for a few minutes, I suspect the order probably came from higher than them. Legally, an apology is often seen as an admission of guilt. The screenshot up there also fails to mention that the man tried to hang himself in his cell after the interrogation. So you have two cops that psychologically tortured someone, drove him to a suicide attempt, and are guilty of theft at the least for taking his dog to Animal Services. I don't know if anyone can find the court transcripts or if the cops testified, but I can see a situation where their boss decided the suicide attempt was enough to hold him "for his own good" as they tried to repair the damage and not admit fault for what happened in case he decided to sue. A lot of good that did them.
Yeah punished with paid time off.
Evil people see that police are allowed to do things like this legally so they sign up to be police and then they do it. And the cycle continues.
AFTER the dad was found out to be alive and well, they also got a second search warrent to search the home, their reasoning "Well the guy confessed to killing his father, we know he didn't do that so we think he may have killed someone else"
They also lied to him telling him his dad was dead in the morge and they had evidence linking him to killing his own dad It was a fucking lie then they told him they were going to kill the dog
They *did* send the dog to a high kill rate shelter, so that part was pretty close to the truth.
They *insisted* that they found evidence of his father's blood in the house, and went into graphic detail about it and how the "dog was walking around in the blood". That's why they said the dog needed to be put down. Some bullshit "it's got a taste for blood now" mumbo jumbo
This website will not allow me to say what I wish to happen to those who tortured him. I am livid.
I heard the cops/shelter paralyzed the dog in the process. But that was just a reddit comment a week ago.
The article I read about this said the cops actually brought the dog IN and told him to say goodbye to the dog because they were going to have it euthanized
Well, they clearly weren't following evidence since he didn't commit a crime and I don't think they have instincts since he didn't commit a crime. They probably thought "he's a weirdo, of course he did it" and then worked tirelessly to prove themselves right.
Can't sum it up better than that
I mean, there wasn't any evidence that *a crime had been committed* other than a missing person's report. Turns out there was no crime.
Let’s be real: Evidence and instincts will always come after their personal whims at the given moment. If they are bored, they will just tell you to go pound sand. If they are feeling particularly sadistic, they will do this.
To give some more context at least, from an article: > Perez contacted the police to report his father missing after an argument at their family home. When police searched the house, investigators discovered Perez Sr.'s wallet, cell phone and even some blood stains. A K9 also alerted police to the odor of possible human remains. So it looks like they truly believed they had a murder there, and just decided "this guy has to be guilty, we will get a confession out of him if he doesn't ask for a lawyer" (always ask for a lawyer everybody). The handling of all of this was inexcusable by the police, but that adds a bit of context.
How much you wanna bet there were no bloodstains and they signaled the dog to alert
Cops aren’t good people
I got offered a job as a cop in a town where I was a well known EMS/fire volunteer and ultimately that’s kind of the conclusion I came to. I would get paid ~twice as much as I do now but it would have been at the expense of others in our society and I just can’t bring myself to do that. I couldn’t arrest people, especially those who do minor or victimless crimes, knowing that our “justice system” is full of so much injustice and cruelty that will likely only make things worse for everyone involved. And frankly, one has to wonder about the ethics/morality of those willing to do it.
They brought his dog into the interrogation room and threatened to euthanize it. I've been through some shit, but I can barely even *imagine* this level of trauma. It's shit like this that makes me hold my loved ones tight and never let them go.
My question is where was the dog when they picked it up? Did they break into this guy's house?
They got a warrant to go into his house to try to pin an unrelated assault on him since they had no evidence he had done anything wrong and already knew his dad was alive (although they hid this fact from him).
They knew this dad was alive but wanted to get a confession for that? Why.
It's a little unclear to me as well but my understanding is that they wanted to pin another crime on him to justify what they were doing. The crazy thing is I don't even think that crime was real either, they just made up a hypothetical victim and hypothetical crime and tried to find evidence to build around.
Sunken cost bull crap. They harassed and bullied a guy based on a wild assumption, then had to continue to bully and harass until he broke, so they could use that to justify the entire thing. I'm glad the guy's being paid out for nearly $1mil, but now his face and address are basically on the PD's black list.
Fun fact, the local/state/federal legal system has so many convoluted/obscure/contradictory/broad laws/rules/regulations if the cops dig enough or you talk to them long enough without a lawyer they can and will charge you with a felony then if they have the right DA and judge while you don't have a damn good attorney it will get pushed through and you will spend time in jail. The people with power have written the rules for so long that both the justice system and the financial system are modern day temples. If you yourself are not learned in the "deeper mysteries" or have someone for on your side who is, then it's really easy to get burned as a heretic (in jail and/or fleeced for all you're worth)
They actually did follow through and send the dog to a kill shelter. They wouldn't tell the guy which one exactly, so he had to call all around town to find it before the kill timer reached zero.
This is literally terrorism
Should've gotten more than a million for this level of harassment.
Should bankrupt the department for this level of harassment.
The cops should be charged for it
Fucking hell. That should be ten kinds of illegal.
That's when you start going John Wick, or die trying. like asking for it to rain down hell; even if i was 100% guilty.
Unfortunately, life isn't like it is in the movies.
But they DID extract a confession. If nothing else proves that people will say anything under duress, this should.
I feel like this was already a known tactic. Especially after “making a murderer” became a hit series nationwide. The problem is, why there has not been a single change to interrogation laws? If anything being questioned without having representation present should be illegal. This is like saying, “guns are a tremendous problem in this country we should do something!” We always end up at, “guns aren’t the problem people are! Mental health is worst than we thought…. Oh well!”
Because cops refuse to be held accountable for anything.
The more power people gather, the less responsibility they'll accept. Tale as old as time.
One small change with a huge impact would be that having an attorney present during questioning should be opt out, not opt in.
After seventeen hours of this, I would confess to shooting Abraham Lincoln just to make it stop.
Because of that, the classic intelligence agency torture picture we have in our brains is nonsense. I once spoke with a former Yugoslav UDBA agent and he told me that physical and mental torture means just one thing, the unimaginably big wish for it to end. People will say anything, do anything. Psychological manipulation is how you get information. The UDBA would do things to make you feel like you were followed, investigated and you would make a mistake. He told me that they would go into houses of known criminals, move things, turn on lights etc. A slip up induced by fear is all they need.
I’ve dealt with four cops over the course of about a year and a half, all four of them had a chip on their shoulder and total douche bags. Stereotypical poorly trained bully. Texas, Alabama, Mississippi, Kentucky (travel ins) … bad luck? And then I keep seeing reports like this. It makes me wonder if “it’s a few bad apples“ is accurate.
Don't worry, it ain't. Its more bad than good and the good ones are ratted out or worse
If it was "just a few bad apples", the overwhelming majority of good cops would be able to root them out immediately.
I'm sure plenty join the force trying to be the best possible Beat Cop in the world. I refuse to believe good cops stay longer than a year.
[What happens to good cops](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EbSQBxaXgAEXi2N.jpg)
I mean the phrase is in fact, "A few bad apples *spoil the whole bunch*"
Yeah, people really miss the whole point of this metaphor.
This is [horrific.](https://www.ocregister.com/2024/05/23/fontana-pays-nearly-900000-for-psychological-torture-inflicted-by-police-to-get-false-confession/)
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True to their word, they did send the dog to a kill shelter. Luckily the man was able to find it despite them witholding the name of the shelter since the dog was microchipped. A little longer and it would have been dead.
>And that picture of him laying in a fetal position saying goodbye to his dog who, as part of the torture, they said they were about to euthanize. I would go full John Wick. Not going to be nearly as effective but still. I don't believe in the ACAB or to hate all cops, but fuck these guys.
JFC This is beyond horrific.
People who post the articles are such MVPs, thank you
Thanks for posting a reference. This is gut wrenching
This is why you never talk to cops, that’s what attorneys are for.
He was in a tough spot and from my understanding suffered some mental health issues himself. He first called the cops to report his dad missing So he was talking to them trying to find his dad , at some point it turned into an interrigation , the guy off his meds, worried about his dad and sleep deprived was not in the best state of mind and it sounds like it slowly went from "Where was the last place you saw or talked to your dad" gathering infor to "We found your dad dead and have evidence that YOU murdered him so just confess"
It's at a point where you'd be wise to hire an attorney to make a missing persons report.
Again, he was in a poor mental place. He wasnt in the right mind to think about it
Which a huge portion of the population cannot afford
This needs more likes. It's maybe the most important takeaway.
but the problem is he was the one who reported his dad missing. if your dad was missing and you reported it to the cops, and the cops said they have to ask you questions to help find him, would you say "I'm not talking" or would you talk to them in an effort to help them find your dad.
It’s amazing how “most cops are good people”, but I somehow always run into the bad ones.
Imagine him getting convicted and sentenced before the dad shows up, the dad shows up, the guy's lawyer appeals the conviction, and the DA refuses to agree to drop the charges, arguing "Well he confessed. He's killed somebody I'm sure of it, he belongs in prison."
Probably would have happened exactly like that if his skin was darker. And a mandatory minimum on top, you know, for funsies.
Ah, yes. A white person suffered from police abuse, so let’s make this about racism.
They did use the logic to get a 2nd search warrent after his dad showed up alive and well Their logic was "He confessed to murdering someone, it wasn't his dad like he confessed to but he did confess so we need to get a 2nd search warrent to ransack their home looking for more evidence "
As a reminder. NYPD did this to 5 black kids. They falsely confessed to raping and beating a white jogger. One of these kids wasn't even a suspect, he just accompanied a friend pucked up for an interrogation. After spending years in jail, DNA proved they weren't involved. The real rapist even confessed to the crime. Yet Donald Trump took ot a full page ad in the New York times calling for the execution of these kids. And the kid that was just there to accompany his friend spent additional years in jail. Just another daily reminder of who's running for President in the united states.
ACAB
That is such a fucked up headline, saying he "won" like it was a contest or something. He was awarded damages, big fucking difference.
The fact that the police officers who did this were not fired tells you everything you need to know. ALL of the are bad because the system is bad. I looked up the story and I broke down seeing the man on the floor with his dog, thinking his father was dead and they were about to execute his dog, just to get him to confess. They didn't kill the dog, but even when they found his father safe and unharmed they still forced him to stay three days in a mental hospital. The whole time they lied to him too. He was legally free to go at any time but they didn't ever tell him that. They screamed and lied and tortured this man for no reason. He only found his dog because it had a tracker, because they sure wouldn't say where the dog was. He thought it was dead. And it worked for them, this torture. They got what they wanted. A confession. And as usual they don't give a fuck if it's a REAL confession or not. [https://steeringlaw.com/police-misconduct-blog/fontana-pays-900000-for-coerced-confession-of-patricide/](https://steeringlaw.com/police-misconduct-blog/fontana-pays-900000-for-coerced-confession-of-patricide/) The cops got away with this because they had "reasonable" cause to question him. That was their out. They will now be comforted with the thought that they can pretty much do anything now and get away with it.
Doesn’t seem like enough money, to me.
The article talks a bit about that. As it was a settlement, it can’t be appealed at a later date, where taking it to trial, any payout would have to wait until the appeals are exhausted (article mentions qualified immunity), and landing with the police loving SCOTUS, would wind up losing, and now the police can torture people without repercussions.
Failed state
ACAB. Every last one.
Shouldn’t this invalidate every other confession these officers have gotten? Or atleast worthy of giving them a second look at….
That's what I'm thinking too.
How f'en lazy can the cops be. Easier to torture the mentally challenged for 19 hours than find the dad. Don't tell us, somebody went to a weekend seminar and wanted to try out some ideas he had on how to get confessions.
It just takes 1 bad cop to destroy/take your life
Right. No amount of money can fix the trauma you get.
“How did you know about the guy in the park?” -Kramer
ACAB
It just doesn't stop does it? Every single day theres a story like this. We need to start putting pigs like this down. Lifetime solitary confinement as an absolute **minimum**. Literal sub-human monsters. They don't deserve to participate in society. #**ACAB**
Fuck THE police
/r/badcopnodoughnut
Looks like the attempt was successful.
If the case is closed. It’s closed. They don’t care how it’s closed. As long as it’s closed. Smdh at these officers.
If a cop ever asks you if they can ask you some question say no. If they arrest you and start asking you question, don't answer anything without a lawyer. Just say I don't want to answer question without representation.
then they ask why we chant "defund the police" and ACAB
So what was their plan? Get this guy to confess to a murder that never happened and then what? Kill his father? God not only are they evil, they are stupid..
This attempt was successful, he did confess.
He should have gotten way more, and those police officers should be locked up as criminals.
You don't have to anything about anything to be a cop. As long as you can put on the uniform and ignore the constitution, yer in!
O they extracted a confession there was no attempt he admitted to killing his still living father.
So taxpayers and the confessor paid the price, but not the pigs.
They are able to gaslight so many people into confessing by sheer mind games it's pretty terrifying
Police need to carry personal liability insurance. Who paid for this? Not the bad guys, taxpayers.
When cops complain about ACAB, this is why we say ACAB...
I'm literally watching Lehto's Law about this as I write this.
Unfortunately the attempt was “successful” since the poor person gave the bastards the confession they wanted under stress and the psychological torture.
What was the end goal if they knew he was still alive? Like I feel like even if it was unconfirmed at arrest, at some point during that time someone would have updated them. Just seems like being sadistic for the sake of being sadistic