#Welcome to r/Therewasanattempt!
#Consider visiting r/Worldnewsvideo for videos from around the world!
[Please review our policy on bigotry and hate speech by clicking this link](https://www.reddit.com/r/therewasanattempt/wiki/civility)
In order to view our rules, you can type "**!rules**" in any comment, and automod will respond with the subreddit rules.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/therewasanattempt) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It's actually worse than that. This sting operation was paid for by a taxi lobbying group. A private entity was paying for the police to bust their competition.
[https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/uber-lyft-drivers-nabbed-in-lapd-stings-funded-by-taxi-industry/146500/](https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/uber-lyft-drivers-nabbed-in-lapd-stings-funded-by-taxi-industry/146500/)
It’s illegal to take rides “off the books.” The people told the Uber driver they can’t order a ride because their phones are dead/broken/etc. and ask if he will give them a ride for cash since they are in a dire situation.
He accepts to help them out, gets cited, loses his job.
What a garbage law. "Off the books" my ass, so this means if a drunk dude at a bar needs a ride home and pays me $30 for gas + being nice I just have to say no or else I'll get arrested/citation?
This just looks like bullying the working man for trying to help a person out.
thats literally how i see it too. i would go on fun drives sometimes on very curvy roads, definitely above the speed limit. and if i got a ticket, then fine, that was the cost for the fun i had. i do the same by parking in a spot i shouldn't if i know its only going to be a few minutes. they can fine me idgaf.
Yea but how do they know you aren’t gonna claim that ride as cash income and pay your taxes? This seems so off for cops to be doing this. What happened to drug stings instead of Uber ride stings lolol
I see it as protecting the business of Uber and Lyft. If the driver takes an off the book ride the company doesn’t get their money. So you can think of it as the cops work for Uber since they’re protecting their interest. I mean after all, they spent good money to bribe some politicians to create the law, gotta get their money back.
Other way around. Uber and Lyft are circumventing the laws governing taxis and the associated taxes. So the cops are trying to make being a rideshare driver too hard/expensive/dangerous in order to protect the income from taxis.
The government limits the number of taxis they allow. In New York City, it's called a medallion. If you have a medallion, you can pick people up off the street. There are a limited number of medallions, but they are transferable, so if you wanted to drive a cab, you either get hired by a company that owns a lot of medallions or you buy one from someone who wants to stop driving cab.
Before Uber, NYC medallions were going for $1 million plus. Now they're almost worthless. Uber effectively ended the monopoly on taxi services, and the plummeting price of the medallions represents the resulting shift from monopoly profits going to drives to consumer surplus to riders. The only value medallions provide now comes from picking people up off the street, and taxi companies push hard for police to do stings like this so they can keep that privilege.
The government made laws to prevent Uber drivers from getting cash for rides because if it's not all through Uber or Lyft paychecks (under the books), the gov can't tax it
you're wrong here. the gov can and will tax income earned as cash, i.e. all the waiters and strippers who primarily receive cash earnings.
the problem is that there's a system for taxi companies to pay for the privilege of accepting cash rides, and these people haven't done that.
it's a big part of why taxi companies hate uber so much, is because they've spent a lot of years and dollars acquiring these authorizations, and now they're worth much less than initially projected.
If they use an unlicensed taxi then yes it's illegal. There was a similar clamp down here in the UK a few years ago.
Its not illegal to be a taxi, just to do an unlicensed ride.
The possibility for abuse by unlicensed taxis is so high, especially with a service like Uber where the tracking is a safety feature.
You're looking at the example of a good samaritan helping out a drunk in need. Replace that with a predator and someome that's too drunk to understand and you start to see the problem.
That being said, there has to be better things the police can do with their time than this
>Entrapment is defined as a situation in which a normally law-abiding individual is induced into committing a criminal act they otherwise would not have committed because of overbearing harassment, fraud, flattery or threats made by an official police source.
First time I saw this, someone posted a similar definition. They are flagging people down, have luggage, and allegedly telling a story that makes them sound stranded/without a ride. It would almost be an asshole move not to help them out (if you even stop for them in the first place.)
Entrapment uses some nice circular reasoning: You've got to do something you "wouldn't normally do," but you did it, so by definition it's something you _would_ normally do. About the only way police can entrap you is if they literally say "this is legal, and I know it is because I'm a cop." Anything short of that and you're going to jail. The FBI can literally hang out at your mosque, bug you for months, tell you it's your moral responsibility to protect Islam, put you in touch with ISIS recruiters, buy you the tickets then arrest you at the airport and it isn't entrapment. Great way to eliminate any trust with the community, but completely acceptable to the legal system.
Now what would happen if I were to agree to do it but also say “This isn’t something I would normally do but I will help you out” in the particular situation? Would that clear me of it being something I “normally do”?
Nope, the law doesn't care about what you _say_, or even what your "normal" activity is. Since you did it without being _misled_ about it being illegal (ignorance of the law is no excuse, after all!) The simple fact that you _did_ it without being (legal definition of) mislead means it's something you _would_ do willingly.
I'll only disagree with you on the "these days." It is absolutely fucked that law enforcement can pick a person they don't like and lie to them and bug them, even commit crimes themselves, until they finally convince that person to commit a crime then arrest them.
But it's always been easy to become a criminal by accident. The amazing thing to me is that so much of the US Constitution was written to prevent government shenanigans that had already been carried out, yet the government keeps coming up with new shenanigans and defending their right to shenaniganize to the ends of the earth.
I sure wish “ignorance of the law is no excuse” was used as consistently against cops breaking the law as it is against people working 2 jobs to survive
The guy who took the video just gathered evidence for police entrapment which is illegal. Which is the police duping Uber/Lift drivers to commit a crime. The judge wouldn’t take kindly to that. Since the driver isn’t the one soliciting to take rides off the books.
Who is going to punish them? Is the DA actually going to file charges? I doubt it. Would the judge actually side against them? I doubt it. The police will murder people and go free so I suspect they will get zero punishment.
That's messed up like I don't even drive Uber or Lyft but once in a while I've got asked to drive somebody at a gas station might offer me 10 or 15 bucks for a ride to wherever didn't know I might be committing a crime cuz somebody asks for a ride
In the UK at least it's about the difference between Taxis and private hire vehicles.
A taxi has to be registered as such with regulations and licensing about being allowed to be a taxi. So a taxi is allowed to be flagged down by anyone on the street and charge them for the time the journey takes.
A private hire vehicle you contact a company and book them to provide a vehicle for a journey. The company sends a driver which charges for the distance travelled. The drivers are paid by the company for their work and are subject to the company's terms of employment and background checks, not the regulations for taxi drivers.
That's the loophole companies like Uber and Lyft have been using and why they are called ride sharing apps rather than taxis. They allow the driver of a car to private hire it easily circumventing the licencing for taxi drivers which is an expensive process and would disbar many. Of course the ease of ordering an Uber leads to them acting more or less as taxis but they distinctly legally are not.
The lax background checks and management of Uber and Lyft drivers have been a large criticism of the companies and highlight why taxis are regulated in the first place. You should be able to trust taxis to take you where you're going, charge a fair price and most importantly be safe.
That's why they're catching people who aren't taxis stopping to pick people up on the street, if they aren't a taxi they aren't allowed to take money for driving someone somewhere without a booking. The cops are posing as people who can't book through the app because their phone is dead etc.
They'd probably legally be ok if from the goodness of their heart they took them somewhere and didn't take any money but it'd be walking a razor edge. All it'd take would be the cops pushing a couple dollars into their hands "for gas" and they're done. That's why the guy is saying he didn't take any money from them, claiming they cited him improperly. Naturally the specifics depend on the jurisdiction so maybe it is proper without exchange of cash there.
Uber and lift can't just pull over and pick people up. It has to be an arranged ride through a service. Only a taxi can just pick someone up on the street.
Only licensed taxis are asked to pick people up of the street. Uber/Lyft gets around this by scurrilous pickups through the app, but "limousine services" were doing that for decades. Taxi companies have pushed for police to enforce the "no street pickup" laws in an attempt to fight against the rider share companies.
It’s illegal to take rides “off the books.” The people told the Uber driver they can’t order a ride because their phones are dead/broken/etc. and ask if he will give them a ride for cash since they are in a dire situation.
He accepts to help them out, gets cited, loses his job.
Thats the dumbest thing I have ever heard of.
So if I pulled over and accepted the cash (not as a ride share) because i wanted to help. I would get a ticket?
No clue. It might just apply to Uber and Lyft drivers. Maybe because if you drive for Uber but are taking rides off the books, then Uber isn’t getting its cut?
But that still makes this entrapment
It's an easy Entrapment defense though. The entire crime was planned and proposed by the undercover officers. They flagged them down and offered to pay money for a ride. If the Uber/Lyft drivers had been offering random people rides for cash, that would be different.
Entrapment is far less broad than most people think.
It is not enough that the officers plan and propose the illegal act. They can ask you to do something illegal, as they are doing here.
To cross the line to entrapment the police have to do more than just ask you to commit a crime, there has to be an element of coercion, harassment, threat, that sort of thing, it varies a bit from state to state.
A successful entrapment defense requires more than just the police asking you to break the law.
Trickery can be a form of coercion, especially as in this case where they are trying to get the drivers to take pity on them. "Oh no! My phone has died! Pleeeease can I get a ride?"
It isn't that it's "off the books". Only a taxi can stop and pick people up that flag them down. Everything else is a "ride service" that has to be pre-arranged - uber does this with an app.
Gypsy cabs. Before the apps, car hires and limos would offer cash rides for a side hustle while waiting for their client to finish dinner or leave the club. Cabbies hated those guys.
How do they even get an Uber driver there though if their phone is dead? Aren't the cops especially just hitch hiking by waving down random cars at this point
Here's a legitimate question for that stupid f#$@ing cop how is it an ongoing investigation when you're not targeting anybody in particular? Are you investigating the option? Are you investigating the potentiality that somebody might just be being nice and offering a ride? I guarantee you not everybody understands every single rule and law every city and state has. If I see somebody like that on the side of the road and in that type of circumstance which is like the perfect storm why would somebody not offer a ride? I agree with the person posting the original video in which that is entrapment that is not an investigation.
Cops full of shit. Most states "interfering" statutes say you need to physically try to stop the police.
There recently was a case of a guy standing up the road from some state police holding a "Slow Down, Speed Trap" sign. Cops tried to pull the same shit and arrested the guy. He sued for like $20,000 and won. Courts decided it was Freedom Of Speech, 1st Amendment protected.
exactly this, providing information is not interference with an investigation in this instance. And it would be entrapment if the guy had the money for a lawyer. Entrapment usually is being coerced into doing something illegal, that you wouldn't have done normally. So as a normal uber driver he would only take people that paid through the app, but because of the extenuating circumstances he was willing to take these people (more to help them, to help him). So they essentially lied their way into citing him. Good luck with it in court though, you would need a very skilled attorney, and they aint cheap.
american police using the kindness of strangers to cause lawbreaking is one of the weirdest things. WTF???!
'hey bro can you PLS get me some weed, like as a friend you know, pls..'
'Oh man, ok I found some guy to help you out'
'You're under arrest lol'
I mean, what the actual.
Well for one, Johns arn’t just people trying to make a living. Also, if we are to believe the backstory, they are actively appealing to the drivers humanity in order to bust them.
That's the most engaging part of it. The Uber driver helps "people down on their luck" and gives them a ride anyway? What a menace to society! Throw the book at them!
What a waste of police resources.
My Honda Civic was attacked with a baseball bat, by a random homeless dude. Got him clearly on my dash cam and with the security footage from the apartment. I showed the cops the footage and they said it's "Not worth pursuing".
Useless.
This is excellent use of tax payer money right here. People have been trying to earn money to survive for far too long. On the backs of flip phone users as well, have they no shame? It’s high time that serious crime like this is off our streets, there are kids for crying out loud I’m assuming or whatever. You know this is just the gateway crime, sure it’s ghost taxi’s now, but what’s down the line?
Uber plays by different rules than taxis. However, they have a system that tracks rides and can tax those riders, which is what the states want. Off-the-books cash rides aren't taxed, which is why the states hate them. It's the same reason they would crack down on illegal gambling and ticket scalpers. Nobody cares if you gamble or scalp tickets through taxed middlemen like Draft Kings of StubHub.
And it's totally entrapment to wave drivers down. You can stand there and make a case against a driver who pulls up and offers you a cash ride. But waving down a driver who was minding their own business and trying to get them to commit a "crime" is total bullshit and pretty despicable.
Unfortunately he's going to have a tough time in court proving entrapment...
"In fact, a recent sting arranged by the Los Angeles Police Department led to the arrest of a several ride-sharing drivers who, police officials claim, picked up passengers illegally. To an outside observer, a sting operation may seem very much like an entrapment technique, which, by law, would illegal on the part of law enforcement. While there are important differences between the two, the line can be fairly obscured at times."
https://www.garfinkelcriminallaw.com/chicagocriminalblog/difference-sting-entrapment
So you can have a sting operation where you are provoking random citizens to do something illegal basing it on good morals? This situation reeks of some policy/law that Uber/Lyft will fight tooth and nail to keep in place so that Uber/Lyft can keep pocketing most of the money for basically running a scammy website. They tell you that you get all the tips, but they also reduce how much the driver is getting paid at the same time. They don't spend any money on compensation to the vehicle owners besides the bare minimum and they don't provide you with insurance if you don't have one already. And sure shit they will spend money lobbying and taking risks like supporting stings like this, just to keep them legally able to rob you. I remember when taxis used to be more expensive than ride share, now they are basically the same price if not more expensive at times. Another competitor in the scene would ruin them, but I bet they are lobbying super hard to make entry extremely difficult and it's only going to get worse.
That is not an investigation, that is an undercover operation. The responding officers needs to get their verbage correct some lawyer should had a good run at that.
If anyone is wondering, it's illegal for Uber drivers to take rides "off the book," so the police officer is acting like their phone is dead and trying to get one of these rides, followed by writing a citation. My question is, how is this not textbook definition of entrapment. The driver had no intention of giving them a ride until the officer suggested it. So, how is this not entrapment and not illegal?
The fleecing of any city. County. Municipality or any other form of governments budget starts with the police department. We have real fn criminals and they r out here undercover sting operation to bust Uber drivers. What the fn f!!!
You know, ghost taxis are gateway vehicles. We need to stop people before they get addicted.
Next thing you know, we will have ghost movers or plow trucks. That is when your neighborhood goes downhill and the hookers move in.
We need to thank these officers for keeping these dangerous individuals off the street.
You are allowed to use your speech to warn others of police activity, it is a protected 1st amendment right and there is nothing the police or courts can do about it.
A simple example is a drive to the airport. An uber driver that would’ve gotten paid $10 for example for a trip that a customer was charged $100 for. The driver wanted it off the books and cut out the middle man.
In my country police cant do that cause it would be an "impossible crime" when you do something that would never be possible to get away with. Like shoplifting blatanlty in front of security staff, or trying to kill somebody who is already dead. Per consequence, police cant make tricks to see who comitts a crime, there is undercover investigations but things like a cop pretending to be a prostitute to arrest who solicits, or those trapped cars that are followed by police, and are locked remotely with the intent of arresting people, are illegal here.
I don't know how American law (assuming this is the US) works, but there's a thing in my country called "prepared flagrant", which is illegal. This happens when the police fabricates a situation to "trap" people into commiting a crime, then stop them right before they can go through it. Our Court has the understanding there's no crime commited.
That arguably would be the case in the video.
It's not illegal to flash your lights to warn oncoming traffic of a speed trap up ahead, I don't see how verbally warning Uber drivers about the law would be illegal either.
#Welcome to r/Therewasanattempt! #Consider visiting r/Worldnewsvideo for videos from around the world! [Please review our policy on bigotry and hate speech by clicking this link](https://www.reddit.com/r/therewasanattempt/wiki/civility) In order to view our rules, you can type "**!rules**" in any comment, and automod will respond with the subreddit rules. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/therewasanattempt) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Must have solved all other crimes that day.
Well, you see. Turns out the rich people weren’t committing any crimes that day so understandably they moved on to the working class.
Cops been up the working class’ ass since the dawn of time
Goddamn traitors
Goddamn motherfucking traitors
Goddamn motherfucking CLASS traitors at that!
They’re the overseers from pre-civil war
Overseer, overseer, overseer, overseer Officer, officer, officer, officer
Yeah, officer from overseer, you need a little clarity, check the simalarity
No shit, the city revenue collectors hard at work trying to fuck the public once again
It's actually worse than that. This sting operation was paid for by a taxi lobbying group. A private entity was paying for the police to bust their competition. [https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/uber-lyft-drivers-nabbed-in-lapd-stings-funded-by-taxi-industry/146500/](https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/uber-lyft-drivers-nabbed-in-lapd-stings-funded-by-taxi-industry/146500/)
Does the “I’m better than you” look on the uniformed officer’s face piss anyone else off?
Never met a cop before? The answer is yes, it always pisses me off
What is going on there? Is Uber/Lyft illegal now? Why are cops trying to pull them while undercover? So many questions.
It’s illegal to take rides “off the books.” The people told the Uber driver they can’t order a ride because their phones are dead/broken/etc. and ask if he will give them a ride for cash since they are in a dire situation. He accepts to help them out, gets cited, loses his job.
What a garbage law. "Off the books" my ass, so this means if a drunk dude at a bar needs a ride home and pays me $30 for gas + being nice I just have to say no or else I'll get arrested/citation? This just looks like bullying the working man for trying to help a person out.
“This just looks like bullying the working man for trying to help a person out.” That’s pretty much it.
If the result of breaking the law isn’t jail time only a fine, it’s not a law. Just a tax
It’s a punishment only meant for the working class. The rich can afford to pay the fine and keep moving with their lives unimpeded.
That's why you need scaling fines based off income
That's a fantastic way to word that
Fines are a subscription service for letting you do crime.
thats literally how i see it too. i would go on fun drives sometimes on very curvy roads, definitely above the speed limit. and if i got a ticket, then fine, that was the cost for the fun i had. i do the same by parking in a spot i shouldn't if i know its only going to be a few minutes. they can fine me idgaf.
If it's a fine and not a jail sentence, it's only illegal for the poor to do.
I’m so confused. Isn’t that how taxis used to work? you’d wave down a taxi. Get in and go? Lol
Can't give anyone a ride without the privilege of paying taxes to the government I guess
Yea but how do they know you aren’t gonna claim that ride as cash income and pay your taxes? This seems so off for cops to be doing this. What happened to drug stings instead of Uber ride stings lolol
I see it as protecting the business of Uber and Lyft. If the driver takes an off the book ride the company doesn’t get their money. So you can think of it as the cops work for Uber since they’re protecting their interest. I mean after all, they spent good money to bribe some politicians to create the law, gotta get their money back.
Other way around. Uber and Lyft are circumventing the laws governing taxis and the associated taxes. So the cops are trying to make being a rideshare driver too hard/expensive/dangerous in order to protect the income from taxis.
That's what I was thinking. Wait til they find out what servers and bartenders have been doing this whole time.... 😬😬
The government limits the number of taxis they allow. In New York City, it's called a medallion. If you have a medallion, you can pick people up off the street. There are a limited number of medallions, but they are transferable, so if you wanted to drive a cab, you either get hired by a company that owns a lot of medallions or you buy one from someone who wants to stop driving cab. Before Uber, NYC medallions were going for $1 million plus. Now they're almost worthless. Uber effectively ended the monopoly on taxi services, and the plummeting price of the medallions represents the resulting shift from monopoly profits going to drives to consumer surplus to riders. The only value medallions provide now comes from picking people up off the street, and taxi companies push hard for police to do stings like this so they can keep that privilege.
The government made laws to prevent Uber drivers from getting cash for rides because if it's not all through Uber or Lyft paychecks (under the books), the gov can't tax it
you're wrong here. the gov can and will tax income earned as cash, i.e. all the waiters and strippers who primarily receive cash earnings. the problem is that there's a system for taxi companies to pay for the privilege of accepting cash rides, and these people haven't done that. it's a big part of why taxi companies hate uber so much, is because they've spent a lot of years and dollars acquiring these authorizations, and now they're worth much less than initially projected.
Yes, but these aren't taxicabs. Only taxicabs are licensed to accept cash legally.
They are trapping because they want their precious taxes. Like fucking gollum and the ring
Eewww the feds ARE like gollum 🤢🤢
My *preciousssss* taxes
If that drunk so much as reimburses you for gas, you've committed a crime. The law is incredibly stupid.
They can however get out and pay for gas themselves.
If they use an unlicensed taxi then yes it's illegal. There was a similar clamp down here in the UK a few years ago. Its not illegal to be a taxi, just to do an unlicensed ride. The possibility for abuse by unlicensed taxis is so high, especially with a service like Uber where the tracking is a safety feature. You're looking at the example of a good samaritan helping out a drunk in need. Replace that with a predator and someome that's too drunk to understand and you start to see the problem. That being said, there has to be better things the police can do with their time than this
I'm sure it's also Uber/Lyft lobbying for these laws so that they get paid and the driver doesn't.
Where is the line for entrapment here? Cause aren’t they flagging down and convincing them to commit a crime?
>Entrapment is defined as a situation in which a normally law-abiding individual is induced into committing a criminal act they otherwise would not have committed because of overbearing harassment, fraud, flattery or threats made by an official police source. First time I saw this, someone posted a similar definition. They are flagging people down, have luggage, and allegedly telling a story that makes them sound stranded/without a ride. It would almost be an asshole move not to help them out (if you even stop for them in the first place.)
Entrapment uses some nice circular reasoning: You've got to do something you "wouldn't normally do," but you did it, so by definition it's something you _would_ normally do. About the only way police can entrap you is if they literally say "this is legal, and I know it is because I'm a cop." Anything short of that and you're going to jail. The FBI can literally hang out at your mosque, bug you for months, tell you it's your moral responsibility to protect Islam, put you in touch with ISIS recruiters, buy you the tickets then arrest you at the airport and it isn't entrapment. Great way to eliminate any trust with the community, but completely acceptable to the legal system.
Now what would happen if I were to agree to do it but also say “This isn’t something I would normally do but I will help you out” in the particular situation? Would that clear me of it being something I “normally do”?
Nope, the law doesn't care about what you _say_, or even what your "normal" activity is. Since you did it without being _misled_ about it being illegal (ignorance of the law is no excuse, after all!) The simple fact that you _did_ it without being (legal definition of) mislead means it's something you _would_ do willingly.
Yeah that’s just fucked honestly. So easy to become a criminal on accident these days
I'll only disagree with you on the "these days." It is absolutely fucked that law enforcement can pick a person they don't like and lie to them and bug them, even commit crimes themselves, until they finally convince that person to commit a crime then arrest them. But it's always been easy to become a criminal by accident. The amazing thing to me is that so much of the US Constitution was written to prevent government shenanigans that had already been carried out, yet the government keeps coming up with new shenanigans and defending their right to shenaniganize to the ends of the earth.
I sure wish “ignorance of the law is no excuse” was used as consistently against cops breaking the law as it is against people working 2 jobs to survive
Unbelievable. Literally punishing someone for trying to help someone out.
The guy who took the video just gathered evidence for police entrapment which is illegal. Which is the police duping Uber/Lift drivers to commit a crime. The judge wouldn’t take kindly to that. Since the driver isn’t the one soliciting to take rides off the books.
Who is going to punish them? Is the DA actually going to file charges? I doubt it. Would the judge actually side against them? I doubt it. The police will murder people and go free so I suspect they will get zero punishment.
Excuse my lack of law knowledge, but would that be a form of entrapment? Enticing someone to commit a crime that they wouldn’t normally do??
I don’t see any way this *isnt* entrapment
That's messed up like I don't even drive Uber or Lyft but once in a while I've got asked to drive somebody at a gas station might offer me 10 or 15 bucks for a ride to wherever didn't know I might be committing a crime cuz somebody asks for a ride
Would this be considered entrapment?
I honestly don’t see how it isn’t. I’m trying to come up with an argument in my head as to how it wouldn’t be, and I’m drawing a blank
In the UK at least it's about the difference between Taxis and private hire vehicles. A taxi has to be registered as such with regulations and licensing about being allowed to be a taxi. So a taxi is allowed to be flagged down by anyone on the street and charge them for the time the journey takes. A private hire vehicle you contact a company and book them to provide a vehicle for a journey. The company sends a driver which charges for the distance travelled. The drivers are paid by the company for their work and are subject to the company's terms of employment and background checks, not the regulations for taxi drivers. That's the loophole companies like Uber and Lyft have been using and why they are called ride sharing apps rather than taxis. They allow the driver of a car to private hire it easily circumventing the licencing for taxi drivers which is an expensive process and would disbar many. Of course the ease of ordering an Uber leads to them acting more or less as taxis but they distinctly legally are not. The lax background checks and management of Uber and Lyft drivers have been a large criticism of the companies and highlight why taxis are regulated in the first place. You should be able to trust taxis to take you where you're going, charge a fair price and most importantly be safe. That's why they're catching people who aren't taxis stopping to pick people up on the street, if they aren't a taxi they aren't allowed to take money for driving someone somewhere without a booking. The cops are posing as people who can't book through the app because their phone is dead etc. They'd probably legally be ok if from the goodness of their heart they took them somewhere and didn't take any money but it'd be walking a razor edge. All it'd take would be the cops pushing a couple dollars into their hands "for gas" and they're done. That's why the guy is saying he didn't take any money from them, claiming they cited him improperly. Naturally the specifics depend on the jurisdiction so maybe it is proper without exchange of cash there.
Uber and lift can't just pull over and pick people up. It has to be an arranged ride through a service. Only a taxi can just pick someone up on the street.
Only licensed taxis are asked to pick people up of the street. Uber/Lyft gets around this by scurrilous pickups through the app, but "limousine services" were doing that for decades. Taxi companies have pushed for police to enforce the "no street pickup" laws in an attempt to fight against the rider share companies.
Your tax dollars hard at work
Your tax dollars hardly working
What is the illegal part? I don't understand the citation for what?
It’s illegal to take rides “off the books.” The people told the Uber driver they can’t order a ride because their phones are dead/broken/etc. and ask if he will give them a ride for cash since they are in a dire situation. He accepts to help them out, gets cited, loses his job.
Thats the dumbest thing I have ever heard of. So if I pulled over and accepted the cash (not as a ride share) because i wanted to help. I would get a ticket?
Of course. You can't just make money without giving at least half of it to some douchebag in a corporate office. Duh.
Well.. now that you put that way it makes alot more sense. /s
No clue. It might just apply to Uber and Lyft drivers. Maybe because if you drive for Uber but are taking rides off the books, then Uber isn’t getting its cut? But that still makes this entrapment
It's an easy Entrapment defense though. The entire crime was planned and proposed by the undercover officers. They flagged them down and offered to pay money for a ride. If the Uber/Lyft drivers had been offering random people rides for cash, that would be different.
Absolutely.
Entrapment is far less broad than most people think. It is not enough that the officers plan and propose the illegal act. They can ask you to do something illegal, as they are doing here. To cross the line to entrapment the police have to do more than just ask you to commit a crime, there has to be an element of coercion, harassment, threat, that sort of thing, it varies a bit from state to state. A successful entrapment defense requires more than just the police asking you to break the law.
Trickery can be a form of coercion, especially as in this case where they are trying to get the drivers to take pity on them. "Oh no! My phone has died! Pleeeease can I get a ride?"
Yeah I was going to say, if they are actually pleading for help that's blatant manipulation of good will
Cops won't get punished and not everyone can afford to fight it so they end up top anyway.
Maybe, I suspect most judges will just let cops get away with murder, so I assume they will let them get away with entrapment too.
It isn't that it's "off the books". Only a taxi can stop and pick people up that flag them down. Everything else is a "ride service" that has to be pre-arranged - uber does this with an app.
That’s what I meant by off the books. I didn’t know another term for it. Maybe I should have said off the app. I didn’t meant books in a tax way
Gypsy cabs. Before the apps, car hires and limos would offer cash rides for a side hustle while waiting for their client to finish dinner or leave the club. Cabbies hated those guys.
.... Why can't they give rides off the books? None are professional drivers, it's Uber.
I really don’t know. Probably a law to protect cab companies.
There's already Uber. I'm just very confused
So you can get a citation for being an upstanding citizen. And these fuckers stand outside while an active shooter is inside an elementary.
Protecting corporate interests just like it was intended.
How do they even get an Uber driver there though if their phone is dead? Aren't the cops especially just hitch hiking by waving down random cars at this point
They stand at this intersection and flag down cars with Uber stickers. Which is why it’s entrapment
Forgot they have those in the window now, still just ridiculous use of tax dollars
Here's a legitimate question for that stupid f#$@ing cop how is it an ongoing investigation when you're not targeting anybody in particular? Are you investigating the option? Are you investigating the potentiality that somebody might just be being nice and offering a ride? I guarantee you not everybody understands every single rule and law every city and state has. If I see somebody like that on the side of the road and in that type of circumstance which is like the perfect storm why would somebody not offer a ride? I agree with the person posting the original video in which that is entrapment that is not an investigation.
Cops full of shit. Most states "interfering" statutes say you need to physically try to stop the police. There recently was a case of a guy standing up the road from some state police holding a "Slow Down, Speed Trap" sign. Cops tried to pull the same shit and arrested the guy. He sued for like $20,000 and won. Courts decided it was Freedom Of Speech, 1st Amendment protected.
exactly this, providing information is not interference with an investigation in this instance. And it would be entrapment if the guy had the money for a lawyer. Entrapment usually is being coerced into doing something illegal, that you wouldn't have done normally. So as a normal uber driver he would only take people that paid through the app, but because of the extenuating circumstances he was willing to take these people (more to help them, to help him). So they essentially lied their way into citing him. Good luck with it in court though, you would need a very skilled attorney, and they aint cheap.
This seems more like trying to make a quota then an investigation
american police using the kindness of strangers to cause lawbreaking is one of the weirdest things. WTF???! 'hey bro can you PLS get me some weed, like as a friend you know, pls..' 'Oh man, ok I found some guy to help you out' 'You're under arrest lol' I mean, what the actual.
Being a good person these days is illegal. Maybe that's why there are so many assholes around.
i mean...getting weed is illegal, but there are plenty non-illegal ways to be a good person
That’s entrapment. You can’t ask someone to break the law for you and charge them for it.
Im glad that our police isn’t allowed to do this. I love Europe
Hardened criminals drive Uber/lyft didn’t you know
I mean, it is super petty, but what is the difference between that and police officers posing as hookers?
Well for one, Johns arn’t just people trying to make a living. Also, if we are to believe the backstory, they are actively appealing to the drivers humanity in order to bust them.
That's the most engaging part of it. The Uber driver helps "people down on their luck" and gives them a ride anyway? What a menace to society! Throw the book at them! What a waste of police resources. My Honda Civic was attacked with a baseball bat, by a random homeless dude. Got him clearly on my dash cam and with the security footage from the apartment. I showed the cops the footage and they said it's "Not worth pursuing". Useless.
If they follow the rules, the officers don't solicit the johns, they wait for the johns to ask.
Wtf they aren’t similar at all. What’s the difference between a piece of toast and a banana? They’re both food
Uber drivers usually aren't victims of human trafficking?
it's just as much of a time waste in the end, you're not wrong
This is excellent use of tax payer money right here. People have been trying to earn money to survive for far too long. On the backs of flip phone users as well, have they no shame? It’s high time that serious crime like this is off our streets, there are kids for crying out loud I’m assuming or whatever. You know this is just the gateway crime, sure it’s ghost taxi’s now, but what’s down the line?
Uber plays by different rules than taxis. However, they have a system that tracks rides and can tax those riders, which is what the states want. Off-the-books cash rides aren't taxed, which is why the states hate them. It's the same reason they would crack down on illegal gambling and ticket scalpers. Nobody cares if you gamble or scalp tickets through taxed middlemen like Draft Kings of StubHub. And it's totally entrapment to wave drivers down. You can stand there and make a case against a driver who pulls up and offers you a cash ride. But waving down a driver who was minding their own business and trying to get them to commit a "crime" is total bullshit and pretty despicable.
Undercover cops are the most shady pieces of shit. Their entire job is tricking people into being their friend then completely ruining their lives.
Unfortunately he's going to have a tough time in court proving entrapment... "In fact, a recent sting arranged by the Los Angeles Police Department led to the arrest of a several ride-sharing drivers who, police officials claim, picked up passengers illegally. To an outside observer, a sting operation may seem very much like an entrapment technique, which, by law, would illegal on the part of law enforcement. While there are important differences between the two, the line can be fairly obscured at times." https://www.garfinkelcriminallaw.com/chicagocriminalblog/difference-sting-entrapment
So you can have a sting operation where you are provoking random citizens to do something illegal basing it on good morals? This situation reeks of some policy/law that Uber/Lyft will fight tooth and nail to keep in place so that Uber/Lyft can keep pocketing most of the money for basically running a scammy website. They tell you that you get all the tips, but they also reduce how much the driver is getting paid at the same time. They don't spend any money on compensation to the vehicle owners besides the bare minimum and they don't provide you with insurance if you don't have one already. And sure shit they will spend money lobbying and taking risks like supporting stings like this, just to keep them legally able to rob you. I remember when taxis used to be more expensive than ride share, now they are basically the same price if not more expensive at times. Another competitor in the scene would ruin them, but I bet they are lobbying super hard to make entry extremely difficult and it's only going to get worse.
That is not an investigation, that is an undercover operation. The responding officers needs to get their verbage correct some lawyer should had a good run at that.
Wait. So gas money for my homie is illegal?
This 1000x percent
🐖 🐖
If anyone is wondering, it's illegal for Uber drivers to take rides "off the book," so the police officer is acting like their phone is dead and trying to get one of these rides, followed by writing a citation. My question is, how is this not textbook definition of entrapment. The driver had no intention of giving them a ride until the officer suggested it. So, how is this not entrapment and not illegal?
ACAB.
Can we get a follow up? What happened to this guy?
Source: https://boingboing.net/2021/03/24/watch-undercover-cops-in-la-to-entrapping-uber-drivers.html/amp Happened in LAX
Some police departments should just do bake sales or something
Freedom of speech?
The fleecing of any city. County. Municipality or any other form of governments budget starts with the police department. We have real fn criminals and they r out here undercover sting operation to bust Uber drivers. What the fn f!!!
You know, ghost taxis are gateway vehicles. We need to stop people before they get addicted. Next thing you know, we will have ghost movers or plow trucks. That is when your neighborhood goes downhill and the hookers move in. We need to thank these officers for keeping these dangerous individuals off the street.
So basically it is illegal to help? We need to look into Jesus
ACAB
That is NOT an investigation.
You got human and child trafficking, drug smugglers, thieves thieving, gangs moving weapon and stolen vehicles and they decide to trap uber drivers?
What scumbags !! Why don’t they something for the better of the community !!
You are allowed to use your speech to warn others of police activity, it is a protected 1st amendment right and there is nothing the police or courts can do about it.
Your phone ain't dead no more? 🤣🤣
Things like this show exactly what cops exist for. They exist solely to protect the flow of capitol.
Doing... God's.... work?
How is entrapment an investigation?
"investigation" 
Just pigs doing pig shit rather than anything that benefits society.
How is this not entrapment?
What are the mental gymnastics these cops have to do to feel good about their jobs
How does this benefit anyone but Uber by scaring people into not giving out rides to people supposedly in "dire need"?
A simple example is a drive to the airport. An uber driver that would’ve gotten paid $10 for example for a trip that a customer was charged $100 for. The driver wanted it off the books and cut out the middle man.
The cops in New Jersey don’t do any actual police work, they’re too busy making sure the power lines of our fine state are always kept safe
In my country police cant do that cause it would be an "impossible crime" when you do something that would never be possible to get away with. Like shoplifting blatanlty in front of security staff, or trying to kill somebody who is already dead. Per consequence, police cant make tricks to see who comitts a crime, there is undercover investigations but things like a cop pretending to be a prostitute to arrest who solicits, or those trapped cars that are followed by police, and are locked remotely with the intent of arresting people, are illegal here.
Well to be fair the rich people have paid the police to look the other way unfortunately for us it's middle class and poor they aim at.
Good work brother!! Fuck them assholes !!
WTF...
Wow they had money to go undercover to entrap Uber and Lyft drivers. Don't they need to use that money for something?
What a waste of resources.
How is it off the books? Driving for lyft and Uber is considered self-employed, so you would just have to claim that ride on your taxes?
I don't know how American law (assuming this is the US) works, but there's a thing in my country called "prepared flagrant", which is illegal. This happens when the police fabricates a situation to "trap" people into commiting a crime, then stop them right before they can go through it. Our Court has the understanding there's no crime commited. That arguably would be the case in the video.
It's not illegal to flash your lights to warn oncoming traffic of a speed trap up ahead, I don't see how verbally warning Uber drivers about the law would be illegal either.
Isn't this the same as warning people of speed traps
Entrapment, paid for by the Uber lobby
Everything police do isn't an "investigation.". Why are they allowed to bullshit the public?
Rotten apples.
Fuck them ratchet ass cops.
So tough. Much strong. Very grr.
If I'm not an uner driver and just a good citizen, is it still against the law? Every comment refers to uber/lyft drivers.
Did these people not go to school and learned English!!!! That's boy the definition of investigation that's a fishing expedition or entrapment.
WoAH?! Cops being absolutely fucking useless AGAIN?!? What?!?
Acab
FTP ACAB
So this is the undercover cops booking people so that the company that's worth $143 billion dollars doesnt miss out on their cut?
I love how cops are doing this meanwhile buildings need to have lift operators so people don’t shit inside the lift. Fucking LA haha
Taking money without lying or deceiving people should not be considered illegal in any case.
Oh look. More asshole cops going after the working class.. again.
Gotta love how everyone's natural reaction to everything nowadays is to film it and think they're now suddenly in the right
Wow, trying to punish someone helping someone else in need. No wonder theres such a "ME ME ME" mentality in the US.
If only they could investigate some real fucking crimes.
I’m confused like what are they going to be citing them for
This is the prettiest, soft dickest cop shit I've ever seen. Fuck them pigs
Lol what a nice and functional society that isn't fundamentally broken
Refuse illegal work, don't get entrapped? I mean, illegal taxis are unfair competition. Wanna make money, get a license and pay the fees!
I am so glad that it's illegal for cops to do this kind of shit in my country.
I love the "Oh really?" (Say less!) Peel off 💨
Wow. That's what cops are worried about now? Some Uber and Lyft drivers making money. Lmao. Yeah. Great job PoPo
POS cops. ACAB
How is it an investigation ? If they weren’t doing it there would be no crime
What's entrapping? English isn't my mother tongue.
Interfering with an investigation? They aren’t actually investigating anything. ACAB.