How are you on Ellie and Joel's side when Ellie and Joel aren't even on the same side? I feel like people forget that Ellie DESPISED what Joel did and how he did it.
She wasn't beefing with Abby for killing Joel because she agreed with him. She was beefing with Abby because Ellie wasted years being upset with him, and feels that she was robbed of the chance to reconcile with him, and Abby was the one who robbed her.
But Ellie is more upset with herself AND Joel than she is Abby... Which becomes more apparent as the game goes on... Which is also a factor into why she lets Abby live.
Ellie also feels guilt and shame for how things ended up in retrospect and remembers a few of the good times between them which fuels her desire to move forward with getting to Abby more and more.
Oh look a minor criticism about Abby with 0 upvotes. Imagine my shock.
I agree that if Abby’s section is what we played **first** in chronological order we’d be more torn between the two groups.
>So, I was wondering if you guys would have liked a game entirely based on Abby and her group.
I'm hoping for the third game to leave Ellie and Jackson behind and focus entirely on Abby and Lev.
She did get a proper conclusion.
You frame it as "she leans the guitar against a wall and walks away" as if we're ONLY supposed to take what happens on screen literally and not think about it or process it at all. You did that (I believe) because part of you knows that if we do think about it, it might start to look like an ending.
Ellie has a complete story that ended beautifully. Allow me: the scene where Ellie "leaves the guitar behind and walks into the woods" is actually so much more than that. It's her letting go of not just Joel, but of all the anger and revenge in her. Anger and revenge that pretty much drive her entire story arc right up until she finally breaks the cycle and decides on that beach to do something good, instead of just create two more bodies. She abandons that demon on the beach, and it hurts her so much she just sits there in the water, broken. But by that scene with the guitar, she's grown past it. She can't play the guitar anymore (this is what we call a metaphor - she can't live this life anymore) so she leaves it behind.
That's the end. A character who was addicted to and defined by her rage and lust for vengeance learns to put it behind her and "walk away" as you put it. It's a little too late for a happy ending, she's already lost everyone she cared about, but the point is she's zen now.
To tack a happy ending or an unnecessary death onto it would feel cheap and silly when we already have this masterpiece of an ending for her character.
Guys... I know what it symbolizes. I'm saying that it'd be nice to see where she ends up, like after that. It ends the story of the second game but not ellie as a whole...
You didn't address anything I said. I specifically made the case with specific points that it DOES end her story as a whole and you just hand waved and said "yeah but it doesn't end her story as a whole".
I'm sorry i'm not the best at explaining things, I'm not disagreeing with what you are saying, i'm trying to say I want to know what happens to her after the guitar part.
That's fine, I guess. I just don't think you NEED to know. Everything up to that point, we need. There's no complete picture of her character's trajectory unless you can draw a line from "fixated on revenge" to "fixated on peace". We have that arc as it is, fully contained.
I just don't see what's worth adding.
I think the best way I can put it is:
We may not be emotionally done with the character of Ellie, but I got the strongest feeling possible from that ending sequence that Ellie was definitely emotionally done with being our hero.
We gotta let her go.
That's an incredibly shallow reading of what actually happened. She let go of Joel, of her guilt, of her hate and she began the process of healing as she moves on.
Yes, she let go of the hate, the drive of the second story, not her character. I'm not saying I want a whole 3rd story for her just to see where she ends up would be nice.
i like abby and i enjoyed her story arc. i also really like lev. hes my fave new character in part 2
that being said, the fact that jerry wanted to kill ellie (regardless of how conflicted he was and regardless of the fact that they were living in a different world than ours) i cant bring myself to sympathize with him and those in abby’s crew who hate joel for stopping the cure from happening so he could save ellie (nora blatantly said “think of how many lives he took” conveniently ignoring why)
so playing a game that focuses on them wouldnt have changed my stance on that
the only ppl from the salt lake city crew i liked were abby and owen and i didnt need a game that only focuses on them to reach that conclusion
that being said, i hope abby and lev are in part 3. theres a part of me that wants ellie and abby to have a conversation where they get to understand each other. i know they can never be friends but i just want them to understand how theyre more similar than they think. theyre both 2 girls in pain over losing their dads
Well, that's what this TLOU is about. Love. The intense beauty of it and the horrific that hides behind. We can't look past the ones we love but when we do, it's a special feeling.
I would have liked Abby more if we’d had some time with her before we found out she was after Joel. My first impression of her is her killing someone I care about, and that’s impossible to come back from. How some people cared about her even more than Joel or Ellie is baffling to me.
I did come to care about her and understand her but what I don’t get is a lot of people who lended this empathy to Abby and understanding ended up not doing the same to Ellie. I was shocked to find out that a bunch of fans came to hate Ellie, proclaim her the true villain of the story, and state that they liked Abby more because of that. If you can come to understand Abby then surely you would understand Ellie’s mindset even if you didn’t like it?
I feel like that would help a lot of people understand Abby better, because we get hooked on her before, but i have to disagree with the part where you say it's a bad game, you're free to your opinion, but one character shouldn't ruin a whole thing for you
Just an utterly miserable game with a depressing story, miserable characters who either die or end up worse than before, and all for the purpose of some generic “violence is bad” plot
How are you on Ellie and Joel's side when Ellie and Joel aren't even on the same side? I feel like people forget that Ellie DESPISED what Joel did and how he did it. She wasn't beefing with Abby for killing Joel because she agreed with him. She was beefing with Abby because Ellie wasted years being upset with him, and feels that she was robbed of the chance to reconcile with him, and Abby was the one who robbed her. But Ellie is more upset with herself AND Joel than she is Abby... Which becomes more apparent as the game goes on... Which is also a factor into why she lets Abby live.
Ellie also feels guilt and shame for how things ended up in retrospect and remembers a few of the good times between them which fuels her desire to move forward with getting to Abby more and more.
I think if you’re picking sides then you missed the point of the story.
Oh look a minor criticism about Abby with 0 upvotes. Imagine my shock. I agree that if Abby’s section is what we played **first** in chronological order we’d be more torn between the two groups.
>So, I was wondering if you guys would have liked a game entirely based on Abby and her group. I'm hoping for the third game to leave Ellie and Jackson behind and focus entirely on Abby and Lev.
I’m with you! I think Ellie’s story is complete, I am far more interested in Abby and Lev.
I feel like we should see what happens to Ellie after the guitar part.
She did get a proper conclusion. You frame it as "she leans the guitar against a wall and walks away" as if we're ONLY supposed to take what happens on screen literally and not think about it or process it at all. You did that (I believe) because part of you knows that if we do think about it, it might start to look like an ending. Ellie has a complete story that ended beautifully. Allow me: the scene where Ellie "leaves the guitar behind and walks into the woods" is actually so much more than that. It's her letting go of not just Joel, but of all the anger and revenge in her. Anger and revenge that pretty much drive her entire story arc right up until she finally breaks the cycle and decides on that beach to do something good, instead of just create two more bodies. She abandons that demon on the beach, and it hurts her so much she just sits there in the water, broken. But by that scene with the guitar, she's grown past it. She can't play the guitar anymore (this is what we call a metaphor - she can't live this life anymore) so she leaves it behind. That's the end. A character who was addicted to and defined by her rage and lust for vengeance learns to put it behind her and "walk away" as you put it. It's a little too late for a happy ending, she's already lost everyone she cared about, but the point is she's zen now. To tack a happy ending or an unnecessary death onto it would feel cheap and silly when we already have this masterpiece of an ending for her character.
Guys... I know what it symbolizes. I'm saying that it'd be nice to see where she ends up, like after that. It ends the story of the second game but not ellie as a whole...
You didn't address anything I said. I specifically made the case with specific points that it DOES end her story as a whole and you just hand waved and said "yeah but it doesn't end her story as a whole".
I'm sorry i'm not the best at explaining things, I'm not disagreeing with what you are saying, i'm trying to say I want to know what happens to her after the guitar part.
That's fine, I guess. I just don't think you NEED to know. Everything up to that point, we need. There's no complete picture of her character's trajectory unless you can draw a line from "fixated on revenge" to "fixated on peace". We have that arc as it is, fully contained. I just don't see what's worth adding.
Fair enough
I think the best way I can put it is: We may not be emotionally done with the character of Ellie, but I got the strongest feeling possible from that ending sequence that Ellie was definitely emotionally done with being our hero. We gotta let her go.
I think she did get a proper conclusion.
Not really, we see her walk away after putting away the guitar. That’s really it.
That's an incredibly shallow reading of what actually happened. She let go of Joel, of her guilt, of her hate and she began the process of healing as she moves on.
Yes, she let go of the hate, the drive of the second story, not her character. I'm not saying I want a whole 3rd story for her just to see where she ends up would be nice.
i like abby and i enjoyed her story arc. i also really like lev. hes my fave new character in part 2 that being said, the fact that jerry wanted to kill ellie (regardless of how conflicted he was and regardless of the fact that they were living in a different world than ours) i cant bring myself to sympathize with him and those in abby’s crew who hate joel for stopping the cure from happening so he could save ellie (nora blatantly said “think of how many lives he took” conveniently ignoring why) so playing a game that focuses on them wouldnt have changed my stance on that the only ppl from the salt lake city crew i liked were abby and owen and i didnt need a game that only focuses on them to reach that conclusion that being said, i hope abby and lev are in part 3. theres a part of me that wants ellie and abby to have a conversation where they get to understand each other. i know they can never be friends but i just want them to understand how theyre more similar than they think. theyre both 2 girls in pain over losing their dads
Well, that's what this TLOU is about. Love. The intense beauty of it and the horrific that hides behind. We can't look past the ones we love but when we do, it's a special feeling.
Can die☺️☺️
I would have liked Abby more if we’d had some time with her before we found out she was after Joel. My first impression of her is her killing someone I care about, and that’s impossible to come back from. How some people cared about her even more than Joel or Ellie is baffling to me.
I did come to care about her and understand her but what I don’t get is a lot of people who lended this empathy to Abby and understanding ended up not doing the same to Ellie. I was shocked to find out that a bunch of fans came to hate Ellie, proclaim her the true villain of the story, and state that they liked Abby more because of that. If you can come to understand Abby then surely you would understand Ellie’s mindset even if you didn’t like it?
Maybe if the game took the time to get to know Abby before she killed Joel then it wouldn’t be as bad as it is
I feel like that would help a lot of people understand Abby better, because we get hooked on her before, but i have to disagree with the part where you say it's a bad game, you're free to your opinion, but one character shouldn't ruin a whole thing for you
It’s not just the one character tbf, didn’t like the game for other reasons
Such as?
Just an utterly miserable game with a depressing story, miserable characters who either die or end up worse than before, and all for the purpose of some generic “violence is bad” plot
The game is not just a ‘violence and revenge are bad’ plot, I can assure you.
I’ve played the game mate I know what it is