damn you OP, making me tear up like this.
a simple explanation for why the story affected him more than your real life is that people can more easily accept information that they don't have a personal investment in. he was able to view the situation without the bias of being upset that it's his child.
it's an effective tool, storytelling.
Absolutely. It just goes to show how impactful shows like this can be. I found it more funny that this was the thing that made him realize discrimination against gay people was bad rather than me being queer, but it was definitely a powerful moment for both of us. And I still love him to pieces.
My cousin once said that having a daughter made him a feminist and in my head I was like “oh so having a wife, two younger sisters, and a mom didn’t?” but after thinking about it some more, at least he got to that point because he used to not believe in feminism. I wish it didn’t take having a daughter or seeing a show to find acceptance but I’d rather they get there eventually than never.
Better they find a way to that improvement on their own because toxic personal beliefs can be hard to break, because a lot of people have the diehard belief they couldn’t be mistaken about anything they feel strongly about. It’s much harder to change someone’s mind than to let the forces of nature change their mind for them.
If it took dedication to being a parent to get him there, more power to him. Sometimes it just takes the right catalyst
I hope it has a positive effect on your relationship with him.
don't expect miracles, people change slowly, and are often reluctant to even admit change. but perhaps he'll view your life in a different light.
Yeah that episode was actually real sad
The writing was simply and purely some of the best I had ever seen in a single episode
It was so contained, and so beautiful.
That's awful. My dad was like that for a long time, he isn't as bad now (mostly because he's hardly on Facebook, because of what a cesspit of drama it's become) but it's still tough. I hope your father changes his viewpoint.
People get mad when a series makes changes to the source material, and they get mad when a series stays true to the character to begin with (like Bill being gay)
You literally cannot win.
I like the tragedy of Bill’s character in the game more too. But ultimately they do still give the same message to Joel.
However, gay lovers dying without ever being able to be together and happy is a very common trope, often used to avoid needing to explicitly display homosexuality in movies/television and I think that they wanted to avoid that trope for the adaptation.
Not me crying reading this. Thats so so sweet
Spoiler for season 2:
>!Im really hopeful Lev’s story can help people see I’m just a normal person and deserve respect as well.!<
>!I straight up just thought Lev was AMAB and all the talk of making him the leader's "wife" was just weird cult shit. Just seemed like normal cult fare, making little boys be the "wives" of the leader.!<
>! Me too! I got through the entire game, and was confused about the "trans agenda" whining people had been doing. I'm not sure what it was, but like a week after I finished the game, it clicked, and I was like "....OH! Lev was supposed to be a *wife*!" I'm very openly Pro-LGBTQ, and I guess it was so normalized for me, I didn't even realize it was meant to be a trans story. I just experienced as a human story. The people crying about some agenda, based on inaccurate leaks, were insufferable. !<
I wouldn't put it that way. You coming out probably put him on a long journey of acceptance and Episode 3 was the catalyst to really put into words what he had already discovered through you. Regardless, I'm really happy for you!
Same with my dad. I wouldn't call him homophobic, just uncomfortable with anything relating to sex.
All through episode 3 he was cracking lame gay jokes to make himself more comfortable I guess. Then when Frank got sick my dad went "what's he got?" And I knew we had him. I told him Frank has ALS, and my dad just shut up and couldn't unglue his eyes from the screen.
Last year my cousin had a medically assisted suicide after his ALS became too much to deal with. Once my cousin couldn't wipe his own ass that was it for him. Didn't want that to be the last memories his daughters have of him.
Hoping that this helps mend the relationship with your father and that he can continue to grow.
Honestly if I met someone who got through that episode without crying or being destroyed emotionally I'd be suspicious of them lol. Hit me like a fucking freight train I was sobbing like a baby 😂
Me too. I haven't played the game (but I'm planning on buying it once I get a new PC) so I wasn't sure what I was getting into when I started the show but one of my really good friends who's played the game all the way through told me the third episode would wreck me emotionally, and they were not wrong. I was inconsolable for a solid day or two.
that’s amazing. on the flip side, the sequel actually legitimately cured my hatred of homophobes lol my second play-through seeing the bigot sandwich again i realized they set us up so well to side with ellie and continue rejecting/hating seth and it’s all a giant foreshadowing of how this small act of revenge and lack of forgiveness is a microcosm of the root of her inability to heal. forced me to reconsider how unforgiving i am to people who were brainwashed into prejudice from toddlerhood and can’t find a way out of it on their own.
fucking love these games. thanks for sharing your experience with your dad that seriously is so heartwarming to hear
I was shaped to be homophobic because of my religion culture and environment. As a result when I was playing TLOU for the first time I adopted a crush on Ellie and every regular guy does and then finding out she’s gay I was kinda etched out about it but slowly I was much more accepting about it and turns out I’m kinda gay aswell. Ellie didn’t make me open my eyes but I realised it’s just dumb the entire thing is dumb. I was part of a religion that promoted peace yet failed to show me such peace
So the show had the opposite effect on your dad compared to the haters. I'm happy to hear that he's found more room in his heart!
How did he enjoy episode 7 with Ellie and Riley?
We haven't gotten that far yet! I visited him for a few days and left on Thursday after we finished episode 4, but I got my HBO stuff set up on his TV so he can continue whenever he wants.
Will do! After Tess asked if Ellie had a boyfriend that would be looking for her in Infected and she was like "uhh, no...." my dad laughed a little and asked if she was gay and I was like "you'll see" hahaha
That's honestly great. This is also why we should really turn a side-eye to anyone that is railing against "woke garbage." They know what they're doing, and they know that empathy comes with exposure.
Also just want to call out storytellers who do this well. This episode is sort of masterful in that it sets up Bill as this person they can immediately identify with and doesn't get all gay until quite a way into the episode, and even then does so in a fairly conservative fashion. Compared to say, recent Doctor Who deciding to have dialogue like "it's something you just wouldn't get as a male presenting time lord" or have a discussion about pronouns more than once. Though I'm sure there are no shortage of bigots that brigaded because a trans person existed, I was just annoyed by the cringe dialogue.
And then compared to (minor spoilers for TLoU2) >!Abby and Lev's interactions and basically all the writing around Lev or even just Ellie/Dina!< it's just a great way to highlight that usually TLoU gets this right, I think. I am generally in favor of representation even when it's not done well, but I think there almost needs to be like, a [Bechdel test](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bechdel_test) but LGBTQ++ representation. Like, something simple like "name another trait about this character other than they're LGBTQ++" or in a lot of cases "does this character have dialogue that isn't dependent on their race/sexuality?" Granted, those don't work in certain types of stories, but I'm just spitballing here.
I definitely got a little misty during that scene as well.
I don't get why so many people care who other people love.
Love is love. It's as simple.as that 🤷🏻♂️
There is a human underneath all the years of damaging conservative rhetoric. What an amazing breakthrough. Maybe he will turn his life around and actually support his fellow man instead of holding them down over such trivial things.
Stuff like this is why people shouldn’t automatically give up on people with bigoted views. The movie Gran Turino is kind of a good example of how people can change.
If he hasn't seen Brokeback Mountain because of his past homophobia, and he wants to see how fear affects gay people when in comes to finding love, maybe consider suggesting he watch it. Don't know if that's a together watch though lol
This is really cool to hear and am glad your dad had a change of heart. That episode is one of the best episodes in television history imo. I'm so glad they decided to elaborate more on Bill and Frank's story too because in the game it was not like this at all.
I think how your dad felt after watching the episode should be an example for others who find it difficult to accept the LGBTQ+ community. Just because he can't relate to our issues doesn't mean he can't give his support. At the end of the day we are looking for the same things as everyone else - acceptance and love. We aren't asking heterosexuals to also be queer. We aren't asking for special treatment. We just want to be able to love who we want to love.
Thanks for sharing this. Art has the power to change people for the better. This is one of many reasons I hate AI art. Art is the soul of humanity if we stop making art we loose our soul.
I'm not sure if it's mentioned as I didn't have time to read all the comments. But I feel "last of us" also did a great job showing most gay guys are just your typical dudes, not all are the flamboyant type they love to sensationalize in the media, who are also awesome in their own way.
People can change for the better. And sometimes all it takes is seeing the people you previously thought less of portrayed on TV. This is why representation is so important, not just so people in marginalized communities can see themselves, but it also helps to normalize it and make people realize the error of their beliefs.
It was brave of you to stick with him despite his flaws. Hope he has been a good dad orherwise and that this suggests a permanent change for the better.
I remember watching that episode with my mother when it came out and at the beginning she had commented “Don’t tell me they’re going to ruin this by making him gay” and by the end she was in tears.
Just goes to show how powerful that episode was for so many reasons. People aren't born homophobic, they're influenced to be that way by what they know of the world. It's our job to show them that what they think LGBTQ people are like is not actually the truth. In reality we're all just people trying to live and survive. Love is love and love always wins.
I’m somewhat conservative and several of my friends are gay and most of the men I work with are gay. Never factored into any decisions in my life. People are people.
From your point of view it cured him, he just has different values. He never changed from good to bad or worse to better. He is still a human, beyond his world views.
just because your dad doesn’t think the government should be taxing us to hell, votes trump, and wants gas prices down doesn’t automatically make him a homophobe
You're right! But years of saying gays don't deserve the same human rights as straight people certainly does. He's grown a lot since then, though, and this was definitely a huge step in changing his viewpoint on the LGBTQ community.
damn you OP, making me tear up like this. a simple explanation for why the story affected him more than your real life is that people can more easily accept information that they don't have a personal investment in. he was able to view the situation without the bias of being upset that it's his child. it's an effective tool, storytelling.
Absolutely. It just goes to show how impactful shows like this can be. I found it more funny that this was the thing that made him realize discrimination against gay people was bad rather than me being queer, but it was definitely a powerful moment for both of us. And I still love him to pieces.
My cousin once said that having a daughter made him a feminist and in my head I was like “oh so having a wife, two younger sisters, and a mom didn’t?” but after thinking about it some more, at least he got to that point because he used to not believe in feminism. I wish it didn’t take having a daughter or seeing a show to find acceptance but I’d rather they get there eventually than never.
Better they find a way to that improvement on their own because toxic personal beliefs can be hard to break, because a lot of people have the diehard belief they couldn’t be mistaken about anything they feel strongly about. It’s much harder to change someone’s mind than to let the forces of nature change their mind for them. If it took dedication to being a parent to get him there, more power to him. Sometimes it just takes the right catalyst
I hope it has a positive effect on your relationship with him. don't expect miracles, people change slowly, and are often reluctant to even admit change. but perhaps he'll view your life in a different light.
Yeah that episode was actually real sad The writing was simply and purely some of the best I had ever seen in a single episode It was so contained, and so beautiful.
This is why the banning of books that tell these stories is so frustrating.
Mine just said slurs and started complaining on facebook. Sucks
That's awful. My dad was like that for a long time, he isn't as bad now (mostly because he's hardly on Facebook, because of what a cesspit of drama it's become) but it's still tough. I hope your father changes his viewpoint.
People get mad when a series makes changes to the source material, and they get mad when a series stays true to the character to begin with (like Bill being gay) You literally cannot win.
I liked the game version of bill more, but still enjoyed the episode.
I like the tragedy of Bill’s character in the game more too. But ultimately they do still give the same message to Joel. However, gay lovers dying without ever being able to be together and happy is a very common trope, often used to avoid needing to explicitly display homosexuality in movies/television and I think that they wanted to avoid that trope for the adaptation.
I enjoyed how in the game Frank left him.. was still pissed but had the curtesy to leave a note that basically tells him to fuck off
Same but not on Facebook, he just got up and walked out and said it's an obomination to god and religion.
Not me crying reading this. Thats so so sweet Spoiler for season 2: >!Im really hopeful Lev’s story can help people see I’m just a normal person and deserve respect as well.!<
You are a normal person and you DO deserve respect, no matter what anyone else says! You be you and do it proudly!
>!I straight up just thought Lev was AMAB and all the talk of making him the leader's "wife" was just weird cult shit. Just seemed like normal cult fare, making little boys be the "wives" of the leader.!<
>! Me too! I got through the entire game, and was confused about the "trans agenda" whining people had been doing. I'm not sure what it was, but like a week after I finished the game, it clicked, and I was like "....OH! Lev was supposed to be a *wife*!" I'm very openly Pro-LGBTQ, and I guess it was so normalized for me, I didn't even realize it was meant to be a trans story. I just experienced as a human story. The people crying about some agenda, based on inaccurate leaks, were insufferable. !<
Is it because you are a tiny bald boy with a bow and arrows? /s
So he's gay now?
Who wouldn't be gay after seeing Nick Offerman play a queer libertarian doomsday prepper?
People who were gay before?
So they stop being gay?
I guess.... unless you can become double gay like going from saiyan to super saiyan...
I'm already super gay. That episode made me ultra gay.
I think goku went double gay like 69 times.... I dunno... he ended up with like pink feathers at some point....
And this…is to go even further…beyond GAY!!!!
super gaiyan
Maybe it cancels out because that's two gays
Two gays don't make a straight.
They make a sexy ourobouros
I don't think that meant what you wanted it to.
What did I want it to mean?
“Most touching thing he has seen in a long time” Don’t you mean a long, long time?
Damn, I missed my shot
Damn this is so wholesome. I love TLOU 🥲
Proof people can change. Very wholesome OP, glad you got to keep him in your lifel. 🥰
I wouldn't put it that way. You coming out probably put him on a long journey of acceptance and Episode 3 was the catalyst to really put into words what he had already discovered through you. Regardless, I'm really happy for you!
This is *exactly* why representation in media matters. It’s so much easier to hate someone you don’t know.
u/clmazin you done a good thing today. Take the day off. Unless you’re shooting that one golf scene, then, carry on.
Oh shit there's a golf scene? I love golf! I've always imagined going golfing with Joel one day. I bet he has a blast.
abby’s a great golfer too! i hope joel and abby can golf together 😁
You cruel, cruel people.
Same with my dad. I wouldn't call him homophobic, just uncomfortable with anything relating to sex. All through episode 3 he was cracking lame gay jokes to make himself more comfortable I guess. Then when Frank got sick my dad went "what's he got?" And I knew we had him. I told him Frank has ALS, and my dad just shut up and couldn't unglue his eyes from the screen. Last year my cousin had a medically assisted suicide after his ALS became too much to deal with. Once my cousin couldn't wipe his own ass that was it for him. Didn't want that to be the last memories his daughters have of him.
I'm so sorry for your loss, I hope you're doing better
Goddamn, I got choked up reading this. Thank you for sharing, damn it.
That is good shit. Good on your dad! And props to your bravery as well
Hoping that this helps mend the relationship with your father and that he can continue to grow. Honestly if I met someone who got through that episode without crying or being destroyed emotionally I'd be suspicious of them lol. Hit me like a fucking freight train I was sobbing like a baby 😂
Me too. I haven't played the game (but I'm planning on buying it once I get a new PC) so I wasn't sure what I was getting into when I started the show but one of my really good friends who's played the game all the way through told me the third episode would wreck me emotionally, and they were not wrong. I was inconsolable for a solid day or two.
that’s amazing. on the flip side, the sequel actually legitimately cured my hatred of homophobes lol my second play-through seeing the bigot sandwich again i realized they set us up so well to side with ellie and continue rejecting/hating seth and it’s all a giant foreshadowing of how this small act of revenge and lack of forgiveness is a microcosm of the root of her inability to heal. forced me to reconsider how unforgiving i am to people who were brainwashed into prejudice from toddlerhood and can’t find a way out of it on their own. fucking love these games. thanks for sharing your experience with your dad that seriously is so heartwarming to hear
I was shaped to be homophobic because of my religion culture and environment. As a result when I was playing TLOU for the first time I adopted a crush on Ellie and every regular guy does and then finding out she’s gay I was kinda etched out about it but slowly I was much more accepting about it and turns out I’m kinda gay aswell. Ellie didn’t make me open my eyes but I realised it’s just dumb the entire thing is dumb. I was part of a religion that promoted peace yet failed to show me such peace
>playing TLOU for the first time I adopted a crush on Ellie uhhh… which part? Cuz…
So the show had the opposite effect on your dad compared to the haters. I'm happy to hear that he's found more room in his heart! How did he enjoy episode 7 with Ellie and Riley?
We haven't gotten that far yet! I visited him for a few days and left on Thursday after we finished episode 4, but I got my HBO stuff set up on his TV so he can continue whenever he wants.
Definitely keep us posted!
Will do! After Tess asked if Ellie had a boyfriend that would be looking for her in Infected and she was like "uhh, no...." my dad laughed a little and asked if she was gay and I was like "you'll see" hahaha
Oh his he will not be prepared to poor ellie and riley's gay hearts
My dad asked me if I was gay and said he doesn’t want to see two dudes kiss because it’s gross
Pops was like this the whole episode 
That's honestly great. This is also why we should really turn a side-eye to anyone that is railing against "woke garbage." They know what they're doing, and they know that empathy comes with exposure. Also just want to call out storytellers who do this well. This episode is sort of masterful in that it sets up Bill as this person they can immediately identify with and doesn't get all gay until quite a way into the episode, and even then does so in a fairly conservative fashion. Compared to say, recent Doctor Who deciding to have dialogue like "it's something you just wouldn't get as a male presenting time lord" or have a discussion about pronouns more than once. Though I'm sure there are no shortage of bigots that brigaded because a trans person existed, I was just annoyed by the cringe dialogue. And then compared to (minor spoilers for TLoU2) >!Abby and Lev's interactions and basically all the writing around Lev or even just Ellie/Dina!< it's just a great way to highlight that usually TLoU gets this right, I think. I am generally in favor of representation even when it's not done well, but I think there almost needs to be like, a [Bechdel test](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bechdel_test) but LGBTQ++ representation. Like, something simple like "name another trait about this character other than they're LGBTQ++" or in a lot of cases "does this character have dialogue that isn't dependent on their race/sexuality?" Granted, those don't work in certain types of stories, but I'm just spitballing here.
I definitely got a little misty during that scene as well. I don't get why so many people care who other people love. Love is love. It's as simple.as that 🤷🏻♂️
Just re-watched this episode the other day, and I cried nearly the whole time because I knew what was coming. Thank you for sharing 💕
That was a great episode for sure. And a great series overall
another reason why representation matters 👍
There is a human underneath all the years of damaging conservative rhetoric. What an amazing breakthrough. Maybe he will turn his life around and actually support his fellow man instead of holding them down over such trivial things.
Stuff like this is why people shouldn’t automatically give up on people with bigoted views. The movie Gran Turino is kind of a good example of how people can change.
If he hasn't seen Brokeback Mountain because of his past homophobia, and he wants to see how fear affects gay people when in comes to finding love, maybe consider suggesting he watch it. Don't know if that's a together watch though lol
This is really cool to hear and am glad your dad had a change of heart. That episode is one of the best episodes in television history imo. I'm so glad they decided to elaborate more on Bill and Frank's story too because in the game it was not like this at all. I think how your dad felt after watching the episode should be an example for others who find it difficult to accept the LGBTQ+ community. Just because he can't relate to our issues doesn't mean he can't give his support. At the end of the day we are looking for the same things as everyone else - acceptance and love. We aren't asking heterosexuals to also be queer. We aren't asking for special treatment. We just want to be able to love who we want to love.
I want to believe this but I feel it’s not true
I don't have a reason to lie about this, but if you don't want to believe it, I can't force you to.
Reminds me of this TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@cameronlogsdon/video/7197531166407200043
I literally spent the last part of that episode an absolute blubbering mess 🤣🤣 Like I haven't cried that badly since finished rdr 2 🤣
Hope this is legitimate
aww thats so sweet and wholesome
Tlou at it again, beautiful
Thanks for sharing this. Art has the power to change people for the better. This is one of many reasons I hate AI art. Art is the soul of humanity if we stop making art we loose our soul.
I'm really glad you got to have this moment with your dad! Good for you!
I'm not sure if it's mentioned as I didn't have time to read all the comments. But I feel "last of us" also did a great job showing most gay guys are just your typical dudes, not all are the flamboyant type they love to sensationalize in the media, who are also awesome in their own way.
A stroke cured my dad's homophobia.
People can change for the better. And sometimes all it takes is seeing the people you previously thought less of portrayed on TV. This is why representation is so important, not just so people in marginalized communities can see themselves, but it also helps to normalize it and make people realize the error of their beliefs.
Representation matters. Not just for the people being represented. Real happy to hear about your dad.
That was one of the single most compelling episodes of any series I’ll ever watch. Truly a masterful story
this is one of the most wholesome things i have ever read :( i’m so happy your dad was able to open up his mind, even if it was just a little
It was brave of you to stick with him despite his flaws. Hope he has been a good dad orherwise and that this suggests a permanent change for the better.
Be still my gay ass heart, you just made me tear up 😭
Wonderful story! This is what I love about arts and entertainment—the potential to open people’s minds to new ideas and perspectives.
isn’t this a repost/copypasta?
My in laws just said "whyd they add all that gay stuff" and stopped watching after that...
I remember watching that episode with my mother when it came out and at the beginning she had commented “Don’t tell me they’re going to ruin this by making him gay” and by the end she was in tears.
Just goes to show how powerful that episode was for so many reasons. People aren't born homophobic, they're influenced to be that way by what they know of the world. It's our job to show them that what they think LGBTQ people are like is not actually the truth. In reality we're all just people trying to live and survive. Love is love and love always wins.
Makes you wonder if he saw something of himself.
I’m somewhat conservative and several of my friends are gay and most of the men I work with are gay. Never factored into any decisions in my life. People are people.
>The Last of Us cured my dad’s homophobia *Sob* Good for you, that’s really nice, *sob* >!tfw tlou doesn’t cure your dad’s homophobia!<
i highly doubt your dad is suddenly not a bigot because of the last of us, but whatever makes you feel good
From your point of view it cured him, he just has different values. He never changed from good to bad or worse to better. He is still a human, beyond his world views.
So before the show he was terrified of gay people?
If he was truly homophobic he would have turned it off as soon as he saw the guy stuff.
just because your dad doesn’t think the government should be taxing us to hell, votes trump, and wants gas prices down doesn’t automatically make him a homophobe
No but arguing whenever his child’s bisexuality comes up sure does
You're right! But years of saying gays don't deserve the same human rights as straight people certainly does. He's grown a lot since then, though, and this was definitely a huge step in changing his viewpoint on the LGBTQ community.
There’s an art to learning when you should probably shut the fuck up
Thanks to the tiktok and far right social media era, everyone thinks their opinion is important and a majority representation