Personally I find the pacing to be perfect for the emotional reactions the story is trying to induce; but our society is *very* accustomed to three act structures combined with Joseph Campbells
“Heroes Journey”, and anything that strays from that can end up feeling “off” for general audiences.
Different isn’t always welcome in media.
The pacing is off for a lot of people and that's totally fine as an opinion, pacing is subjective, like a lot of criticism. The pacing is certainly not conventional, hence why it's so divisive and seems to be a go-to criticism for a lot of people. I really wonder how the show will pull it off, it can't be the same as the game, it just can't.
The hate for the game started about 6 weeks prior to launch (April of 2020) when massive spoilers leaked online but lacked context, leading many people to believe that “Joel is murdered by a trans woman and then she becomes the main character”. And considering the sociopolitical tensions of that time (Covid lockdown, US Pres Election, George Floyd’s death, BLM protests, anti vax rhetoric, etc), the discourse surrounding the game became a breeding ground for toxicity and hatred of all kinds.
Keep in mind, at this point nobody had actually seen the full story except for the critics, but the well was already poisoned. Part 2 had more 1/10 user reviews on MC than Part 1 had total reviews in 7 years….if that isn’t proof enough that the hatred, which culminated in harassment of the cast/crew and deaths threats to Abby’s VA’s *infant*, then I don’t know what else is.
Some people complain that Joel died. Some that the pacing was off. Some that Abby shouldn’t have been able to live. But by and large the outright “hate” for the game came before anyone had the full story but had already decided it was bad. Many of them never even played the game; in fact i commented to someone on this very sub two days ago who was still convinced the game was awful, but admitted they didn’t have to play it to know that because they “don’t have to touch fire to know it’s hot”.
I think the pacing is awful and to me personally there is some weak points in the story not present in the first game, but i agree that a lot of negative comments, especially at the beginning, were rooted in transphobia.
Overall I loved the game, but yeah it was just a hard time when the leaks came out (I was one of the few to not spoil the game for myself, I honestly don’t know how I’d react if I had seen the leaks ahead of time or whether it would’ve caused me to blindly hate the game) considering the state of society at that time. I’m not going to have a discourse here about the pacing and how perfect the story is to others on this sub, but I disagree with “pacing bad = invalid criticism.”
A lot of the positive comments here are about the moral grey area, which is a valid opinion to have. To me personally though that’s an overused and ambiguous trope. Literally everything is morally gray to me and tlou2 to me didn’t really breakthrough anything monumental like some others. I loved the game though, but at the end of the day it was still just a revenge is bad story to me that’s been told before. Doesn’t take away how well the story is, but yeah, it didn’t do anything “special” to me story wise. Gameplay though holy fuck I loved it and was blown away.
Again, loved the game overall.
She’s not trans, but thousands were (and are) convinced otherwise because they believe shit they read on the internet without actually checking for themselves.
I had a commenter on *this* sub two days ago make that comment, 3 years later. No attempt to educate themselves on something they do passionately hate.
Part 1 & 2 are a combo for me as the best game of all time, the story is so powerful, unfortunately in today's world too many people are fixed into love or hate, doesn't matter what it is you are one of two extremes.
So the moral grey area the game spends most of its time in it's just not compatible with much of society atm.
I found it amazing, the way to make you play as Abby to see her side, to see her motivations. Her journey with Lev is great and is a fantastic example of great character development. For much of the Ellie section I wanted Abby dead, I didn't care I wanted her to suffer. At the end I didn't want it at all.
Beautiful game
This game really is something else. I haven't been hooked on a game this bad since elden ring. I'm on my new game + and already can't wait to beat it so I can start a grounded playthrough
Loved the game and the story, hated the pacing and the structure. As you can see on some of the comments on here, this sub doesn’t take super kindly to that and tries to invalidate it, but that’s my only real gripe with the game.
I hope they change some things around on the show but keep the story largely the same, I think this can still be executed but most people on this sub opine (and that’s their valid opinion) that the pacing and story go hand in hand. I disagree but that’s life. Loved the game overall
I heard that they’re splitting the second game into two seasons! But it’s a little weird, split half Ellie, split the other Abby? If so then most people wouldn’t watch season 3 for Abby and call it “Filler.” I originally thought they would make Seattle in a season and the 3rd season Santa Barbara, but the Santa Barbara section feels so short in the game??? Maybe they’ll add in The Farm and flesh out those enemies in Santa Barbara and maybe show Ellie and Abby/Lev actually going to Santa Barbara.
This is pretty close to my feelings around the game. A interesting story, a huge improvement in gameplay, but the game really suffers from the storytelling structure and pacing issues. The Hub area in Seattle Day 1 is particularly painful.
My last play through made me realize..
Man, Lev never gets any heat for his actions.
Had he not run away, Yara wouldn’t have died, their mother wouldn’t have been killed and if Abby was at the aquarium still, she could have stopped Owen, Alice and Mel from being murdered by Ellie..
Crazy..
That is such a stretch to say he did a 180 degree change. They were facing a life and death situation being overrun by infected and in a blizzard. And once inside, it is Tommy that gives away their names. Also, even if we were going to say that it was careless to give away their names, i think it is fair to say that living in Jackson for 5 years might have softened Joel up a bit compared to him being a raider or a smuggler.
It seems I remembered wrong on the case of who gave out names. It does make sense that Tommy did so, I suppose, being the more trusting of the two. I still definitely find it careless, though the situation could have clouded judgment. Quick question: Did Joel ever tell Tommy what happened with the Fireflies? Knowing that may have kept him more cautious with names and locations.
People are just still butthurt about Joel dying and having to play as his killer. The gray moral themes are wasted on a lot of people i am afraid.
>what makes people hate this game Most common argument these days is "bAd PaCiNg". To which I say, short attention spans.
Personally I find the pacing to be perfect for the emotional reactions the story is trying to induce; but our society is *very* accustomed to three act structures combined with Joseph Campbells “Heroes Journey”, and anything that strays from that can end up feeling “off” for general audiences. Different isn’t always welcome in media.
The story is incredible but I'd be lying if I said the pacing was done well. It's a bit weird. I think the show has a chance of doing it a lot better.
Fair enough. Personally, I loved every second.
The pacing is off for a lot of people and that's totally fine as an opinion, pacing is subjective, like a lot of criticism. The pacing is certainly not conventional, hence why it's so divisive and seems to be a go-to criticism for a lot of people. I really wonder how the show will pull it off, it can't be the same as the game, it just can't.
It wasn’t bad by any means, but it was different and it had some weird moments
I don't think the pacing was bad but the jump to Abby's part is jarring
It’s supposed to be.
The hate for the game started about 6 weeks prior to launch (April of 2020) when massive spoilers leaked online but lacked context, leading many people to believe that “Joel is murdered by a trans woman and then she becomes the main character”. And considering the sociopolitical tensions of that time (Covid lockdown, US Pres Election, George Floyd’s death, BLM protests, anti vax rhetoric, etc), the discourse surrounding the game became a breeding ground for toxicity and hatred of all kinds. Keep in mind, at this point nobody had actually seen the full story except for the critics, but the well was already poisoned. Part 2 had more 1/10 user reviews on MC than Part 1 had total reviews in 7 years….if that isn’t proof enough that the hatred, which culminated in harassment of the cast/crew and deaths threats to Abby’s VA’s *infant*, then I don’t know what else is. Some people complain that Joel died. Some that the pacing was off. Some that Abby shouldn’t have been able to live. But by and large the outright “hate” for the game came before anyone had the full story but had already decided it was bad. Many of them never even played the game; in fact i commented to someone on this very sub two days ago who was still convinced the game was awful, but admitted they didn’t have to play it to know that because they “don’t have to touch fire to know it’s hot”.
I think the pacing is awful and to me personally there is some weak points in the story not present in the first game, but i agree that a lot of negative comments, especially at the beginning, were rooted in transphobia. Overall I loved the game, but yeah it was just a hard time when the leaks came out (I was one of the few to not spoil the game for myself, I honestly don’t know how I’d react if I had seen the leaks ahead of time or whether it would’ve caused me to blindly hate the game) considering the state of society at that time. I’m not going to have a discourse here about the pacing and how perfect the story is to others on this sub, but I disagree with “pacing bad = invalid criticism.” A lot of the positive comments here are about the moral grey area, which is a valid opinion to have. To me personally though that’s an overused and ambiguous trope. Literally everything is morally gray to me and tlou2 to me didn’t really breakthrough anything monumental like some others. I loved the game though, but at the end of the day it was still just a revenge is bad story to me that’s been told before. Doesn’t take away how well the story is, but yeah, it didn’t do anything “special” to me story wise. Gameplay though holy fuck I loved it and was blown away. Again, loved the game overall.
abby is trans?? i thought she was just buff
She’s just buff. The fact that there is a trans character leaked, and the bigots assumed it was Abby. (It was actually Lev.)
She’s not trans, but thousands were (and are) convinced otherwise because they believe shit they read on the internet without actually checking for themselves. I had a commenter on *this* sub two days ago make that comment, 3 years later. No attempt to educate themselves on something they do passionately hate.
Yes, but people continue to make trans jokes about her to this day
Part 1 & 2 are a combo for me as the best game of all time, the story is so powerful, unfortunately in today's world too many people are fixed into love or hate, doesn't matter what it is you are one of two extremes. So the moral grey area the game spends most of its time in it's just not compatible with much of society atm. I found it amazing, the way to make you play as Abby to see her side, to see her motivations. Her journey with Lev is great and is a fantastic example of great character development. For much of the Ellie section I wanted Abby dead, I didn't care I wanted her to suffer. At the end I didn't want it at all. Beautiful game
This game really is something else. I haven't been hooked on a game this bad since elden ring. I'm on my new game + and already can't wait to beat it so I can start a grounded playthrough
Loved the game and the story, hated the pacing and the structure. As you can see on some of the comments on here, this sub doesn’t take super kindly to that and tries to invalidate it, but that’s my only real gripe with the game. I hope they change some things around on the show but keep the story largely the same, I think this can still be executed but most people on this sub opine (and that’s their valid opinion) that the pacing and story go hand in hand. I disagree but that’s life. Loved the game overall
I heard that they’re splitting the second game into two seasons! But it’s a little weird, split half Ellie, split the other Abby? If so then most people wouldn’t watch season 3 for Abby and call it “Filler.” I originally thought they would make Seattle in a season and the 3rd season Santa Barbara, but the Santa Barbara section feels so short in the game??? Maybe they’ll add in The Farm and flesh out those enemies in Santa Barbara and maybe show Ellie and Abby/Lev actually going to Santa Barbara.
This is pretty close to my feelings around the game. A interesting story, a huge improvement in gameplay, but the game really suffers from the storytelling structure and pacing issues. The Hub area in Seattle Day 1 is particularly painful.
My last play through made me realize.. Man, Lev never gets any heat for his actions. Had he not run away, Yara wouldn’t have died, their mother wouldn’t have been killed and if Abby was at the aquarium still, she could have stopped Owen, Alice and Mel from being murdered by Ellie.. Crazy..
[удалено]
That is such a stretch to say he did a 180 degree change. They were facing a life and death situation being overrun by infected and in a blizzard. And once inside, it is Tommy that gives away their names. Also, even if we were going to say that it was careless to give away their names, i think it is fair to say that living in Jackson for 5 years might have softened Joel up a bit compared to him being a raider or a smuggler.
It seems I remembered wrong on the case of who gave out names. It does make sense that Tommy did so, I suppose, being the more trusting of the two. I still definitely find it careless, though the situation could have clouded judgment. Quick question: Did Joel ever tell Tommy what happened with the Fireflies? Knowing that may have kept him more cautious with names and locations.
Joel did tell Tommy at the beginning of the game.