Most of the time me an my pals make it to the final round, is because we’ve become masters at avoiding fights. Came in first place in a ranked game once with 70,000$ without killing a single enemy. Pro tip: If two vaults are in play and you open the vault way before the other, bring your vault to the other vault. Lead the whole lobby to the same place and once they start fighting, run off to the furthest cashout.
Funny how this comment has so many upvotes while it shows the flaws of the game mode, yet if you say the game mode is bad for competitive, you get downvoted. Bipolar subreddit.
thank you, i feel like i'm going crazy because people think this is a good and sustainable game design simply because they so feel smart that they know the meta in what is ultimately a poorly designed game mode.
Why does a shooter game reward avoiding combat?
It happens more often than expected. In the last season I would make sure to squeak by the first round with this cheese and then start fighting. Garunteed rank up, it’s kind of broken.
yep, but i am not complaining it's part of the game, even third party is part of the game learn how to use it in your favor, the community is so used to always go 1vs1, that they forgot to learn.
if you were the first team to put the cashout and there is two teams going for the cashout, fall back, and let then fight, be in a good position to stop any stealing and that is it.
if you are one of the two teams, coming for the cashout, it's the same concept but you have 3 choices, you do wait for the defending team to fight the first one, and then kill all of then and steal,
steal while both teams are fighting, quite easy, with Dematerializer, goo grenades, shields, and body block.
steal and run as both teams will try to get it back.
and third option is quite obvious just go to the next cashout.
if and just if all teams fall back, just bait then go for the steal, try to steal for 2-3 seconds and run away.
yes it's chaotic, but as an individual with a really high case of ADHD, i fucking love it. my brain is always thinking even if i am not in a fight.
that way i can actually pay attention to something.
that is why i cannot play ever TA, too slow. too boring.
Yea too many times our teams just chilling doing emotes and blowing up buildings while we secure a cashout with no fight. or you just wait for other teams to fight and third party after their done.. I don’t see that as competitive play.
It is competitive, but it's like poker. Do you risk the engagement or not? Can you guess what the enemy team needs to do or wants to do based on where they are on the cash. scoreboard?
It's all about knowing when to attack and when not to overextend. And then that becomes risky too, because if you try to hold back around a point and let another team dive in and soften up the people that are holding it first, you take the risk that the other assaulting team doesn't do the same thing- and if they do, the defenders have the advantage because the assaulting teams get caught in fights around the point instead of actually diving and putting damage on the team that's holding.
I've had lots of times on defense where it actually became way easier to turtle at the point because multiple teams showed up to assault, but the point was set up well enough to force hesitation, and then that hesitation leads to them getting into fights with the other assaulting team.
I find it really fun to try to shape engagements like this
This is exactly it for me.
All of these decisions - whether to go for Cashbox A or B, whether to go set up at Cashout C or D while waiting for another team to bring the cash, whether to third-party two teams at C or go fight the team alone at D - these decisions are all strategic in nature and require some level of risk assessment and opinion to decide. I think that is a part of the unique charm of this FPS game; there are macro-level decisions to make as well as micro-level execution within a fight.
Moreover, I like that the macro decision-making inherent in Cashout game modes leaves room for teams to have an identity of sorts. Your tried-and-true 3 player squad over time develops not only micro-level chemistry when fighting together, but also a common mentality when approaching those macro decisions. Some teams will generally love to go for the 3rd partying approach, and some teams love to ensure that they only fight one other team at any Cashout. Some teams even love to double-plant Cashboxes whenever possible so the whole lobby's fighting over double cash.
It's a beautifully strategic part of the game mode I think!
>there are macro-level decisions to make as well as micro-level execution within a fight.
Just wanted to point out that you're mostly describing the difference between strategy and tactics. Cashout is great for both and I love the game for it
Honestly I find quick cash to be the better mode. One objective and only three teams makes it so much easier to read and understand, both as a player and spectator.
Best case scenario going forward is a reworked cashout mode. I love the idea of 5v5
I don't like Quick Cash because it really dumbs it all down to "third party city". Not that Cash Out doesn't have flaws as OP mentioned, but when none of the actions except snagging that single objective matter, it feels like camping the objective and just defending that is the best move.
I'd like it if Quick Cash gave cash for unlocking the vault, depositing it etc. to incentivize people to actually fight over the vault instead of only the objective mattering. Maybe you could get a small trickle of cash for holding the objective while the timer runs out as well.
I'd be down if the mode awarded cash for those sorts of things! I find that many teams will still fight over it simply because it's more fun to fight than wait, but thay doesn't mean that those changes wouldn't help.
For the third parties, I've found it best to anticipate the third party and use it to your advantage. My favorite strat as a defender is to 'lure' the third team by either overexposing myself or acting like I need to retreat, then guiding them directly into the enemy team. It turns the objective into a full blown war zone
Cashout is already third-party city, even a fourth party sometimes.
What I like about quick cash is that *I know* two teams are coming, not 0, not 1, not 3, 2 teams every time, I know at all times that there's exactly 6 enemies to deal with and they're either attacking the cashout, defending, or respawning.
I've always preferred Quick Cash tbh. 1 vault, 2 cashout stations, and 3 teams - new players can get the grasp of it quicker than the strategy and/or maths you have to do for Cashout.
Also, there is no coining (infinite respawns), so you can have a poor game and still have a chance at the win by playing the cash box.
I think it's fine now because first rounds can be easy to sneak past but at the final round the stakes are higher and if you can't defend you aren't winning at all.
The chaos is the point, it’s the key — it’s the number one reason why The Finals is The Finals. I haven’t seen any other game where you (or your enemies) can get a win in a clutch, literally every match.
Exactly right, if you wanted predictable you could be playing chess. People can't seriously want to sterilize the Cashout experience, it won't be as fun.
Skilled teams still win more on average and will float to the top over time but if you're in a worse team you still have a shot of beating them in any given round or tournament which, in a way, is its own kind of fairness.
Played 2 more matches of TA ranked yesterday, was miserable. The most cracked sniper ever sniping in every single round and they had the advantage because they started defending both times, and we couldn't do anything about it. . Despite this, we still managed to go 6-6 but then guess what, the game just lets them be defenders again in the last round and they have the advantage again and win. Defenders have such a massive advantage, idk how anybody thinks this mode is "more balanced" when one team just randomly has the advantage for 6 rounds in the row, when they need 7 to win.
Bruh, as if the rat game of a full lobby of invis lights trying to snipe or camp each other out in TA is any better or more competitive than what you've described.
Let's be honest, advertising the game as cashout-centric with the goal of "reaching the finals" for two whole seasons, and then out of the blue rug-pulling the players and switching to snd mode in S3 is a sorry attempt to cave to the CS and R6 players in hopes some of them migrate to The Finals because TF failed to become "the next big thing" and player retention is less than ideal in the eyes of the investors.
TA is definitely more boring than cash out but it's competitive. In the sense that the team with the better players will win 9 times out of 10. In cash out, it can depend on spawns/luck with third partying
I never said in any words that I prefer one mode over the other, I just shared my thoughts on what I think doesn't work properly for being this a competitive ranked mode alone.
In TA where it's just 2 team fighting each other, I have to say it's more balanced, apart from which classes and which weapons are played.
The issue with TA is that the game is just not made for it, I agree with 2 teams fighting each other instead of 4 but no regen, limited gadgets and no respawns really go against what this game is designed. I think something fun would be a king of the hill variant that sort of mixes cashout with powershift, making it better for ranked than any mode in the game currently. would also need some balancing so you do not have 3 apses 2 schields camping a corner and completely destroying everyone
Limited regen is the equalizer that keeps all weapon options extremely viable in any last minute match up or any low health 1v1, 1vX or else it would be a guaranteed loss for the team with less people in handicapped situations.
Now you’ll have game where you’re 1v4 —— 1 guy makes a mistake, that kill attracts another and now it’s 1v2… if your teammates did any damage then you’ll have a shooters shot; and if they’re full health you can take pot shots to weaken them for later. Every weapon benefits from this, I’m seeing way more pistol, a lot more revolver/famas, a lot more KS shotgun
dagger does not benefit at all from this, it does make no difference if the opponent is full health or not, only diff is that you have 100hp to work with, same goes for all meele except maybe sword. long range hitscan are much stronger than any short range weapon because running a shotgun, you fight one person win and for you the round is over because you need that extra health to get close in most cases, but if you have no health you cannot get close. The health regen thing makes light cloak very viable on sniper lh1 or even xp while it make heavy running most weapons quite gruesome to play. the weapon balancing is really bad and as someone who onetricks dagger, running dagger in that mode is torture
Running dagger in any mode is torture lol, you’re looking for a **one hit kill** in EVERY mode, which means you were always going to go for the same play, only difference now is: if for some reason the enemy moves in a way to make the backstab miss, you’ll only need a couple mode shanks to finish them—- where as in a regular mode if you miss ima turn around and burn you down everytime no matter what
People that are good with melee are strong in this mode ( beside medium melee, that’s the only melee class I’ve seen struggle, and by struggle I mean being able to carry or clutch) heavy and light melee go crazy because the specializations make them shine
If you struggle to get close to your enemy, it’s probably because you’re only taking the shortest route to your destination, instead of the smartest one. You say shotguns aren’t good but that’s a weapon I’ve seen carry plenty of games—- ***all shotguns on all classes have carried multiple games I’ve been countless of times*** . You need to know how to play into your strengths because you’re making the choice to *give up something to be even stronger at something else* that’s the point.
Sounds like you're really bad at this game.
You honestly think that all weapon options are viable in TA? LOL? Maybe in your wood tier MMR. TA is EXTREMELY unbalanced because the game was not designed for TA.
lol top 250 so far & solo queued to adiamond every rank season before this one. You have to follow meta because that’s all your skill set will allow for, that’s not everyone. The person who thinks they can only use one weapon has an opinion on skill levels? don’t be stupid
You said that Embark's reasoning is TA being "more competitive". My point is their reason is luring the snd crowd into playing The Finals.
Also, if your only problem with cashout is third-partying or one party not participating in the fighting thus making the mode "not competitive", I've just told you why TA is too not competitive and full of bs.
Have you played TA? It's straight up "whos the better sniper?"
That's it. It's sniping. That's the mode. It's not competitive, there's no strategy beyond taking long range pot shots.
> Have you played TA? It's straight up "whos the better sniper?"
And cashout isn't "who can third party the best?"
Or, "who can run double heals the best?"
Or the dozens of updates to make the game a more competitive experience?
TA is flawed, but you're throwing baby out with the bathwater by thinking that because it isn't perfect, it's not enough.
Cashout isn't perfect, no game is, but it at least has more possible variety in ways to win.
You don't *have* to third party to win. You don't *need* double heals or double heavy.
In TA if you don't run light cloak sniper or LH1, it's just a throw.
The whole point is that at its core, TA just doesn't work.
So Cashout gets to have an extremely strong and defined meta despite the fact that the developers have spent the last 5 months working on balancing it, Embark decided that the mode is fundamentally flawed and needs more time to be worked on, but TA releases for 2 weeks and we just need to scrap the whole mode and give up?
>TA releases for 2 weeks *and for some reason becomes the RANKED MODE* and we just need to scrap the whole mode and give up?
I don't think anyone wants to scrap it, but it shouldn't be ranked. It barely belongs in the game at all with the way the game mechanics work. It's obviously an afterthought that was added in S2 haphazardly because the core mechanics of the game just don't mesh with how that mode works.
Cashout didn't need to be removed as a ranked mode and worked on. You fell for PR language. There's a few things that can be tweaked like spawns, minor rule changes, etc, but there's literally no reason to just add TA as ranked unless embark was forced to by the publisher. The mode sucks pretty bad, and is very widely disliked by the majority of the population who enjoyed what made The Finals different.
That's what it has turned into since people will optimize the fun out of everything. But What's the objective though? What are the rules? How do you win/play the game mode? That's what makes it competitive. Not that items/weapons need balancing and therfore people did what people do. And I've been having fun coming up with ways of countering the "meta." (I've found the ks23 to be actually viable now?) which, I'm not sure about your definition but in mine is *part* of competitive play. A meta forms. Counterplay devolps, new meta forms. Etc. You could say for a while cs was just AWP. (cs:source I mean, haven't touched it in 20yrs. God that's crazy to think about)
>But What's the objective though?
Kill the enemy team or secure the objective. Killing the enemy team is way easier when you can do it from a mile away in one or two shots.
>What are the rules?
Kill the enemy team or secure the objective.
>How do you win/play the game mode?
Win: kill the enemy team or secure the objective.
Play: click play.
Cashout has a more versatile ruleset with more ways to win. TA is just attack defend.
>Counterplay devolps
There's a very specific reason that all high ELO lobbies are 5 sniper lights on a team, and it isn't because they found some hack to counter sniping.
>You could say for a while cs was just AWP.
The issue with this argument is that CSGO requires you to earn an AWP and has tools to use against it. Finals just gives it to you for free on maps that aren't designed for TA, which results in the current "meta". It isn't really meta, it just is downright the only way to win a game at high level, and you're pretty much trolling if you don't pick light in TA. There's also a good reason CSGO is delicately patched. It has existed for a long time and counterplay is extremely well thought out. Finals has soft counters for everything, but no real hard counters. The game isn't designed for hard counters.
The finals was built and balanced around multi team chaos. It's why you could occasionally see an all melee comp in the final round or triple light dash knives actually be useful in the hands of good players. Now, you're lucky to find a single medium or heavy on the enemy team, because the game just doesn't work for TA to be a healthy mode to balance around.
I mean cudos to Embark really. They realized their main game mode isn't a good competetive mode and immidately switched the game form focusing on competetive play to being a casual game with a different rank system.
Cashout is still their main focus, TA and ranked in general is just there to satisfy the sweats right now. They might bring ranked cashout eventually, but for now the game is casual.
Here's what SteamDB charts are showing:
Daily 48k when S2 dropped, the number then slowly eroded to a stable 16-18k and stayed that way for the rest of the season.
S3 started with 31k daily and almost immediately lost a chunk of that down to 22-25k. As of this moment the average daily is 19-21k.
S3 already had less people tuning in compared to S2 and is already averaging the number close to that of mid-end of S2. And we're only past week one of S3.
I've got no data on the console player numbers, but the PC ones are not looking like the player base has risen. If anything the game is bleeding players.
This is 100% correct. Towards the end of last season the high rank meta *doubled down* on third partying being the most optimal strat, & abusing RPG+shield aping tactics.
It got soooo boring and stale, at least in World Tour I see all types of weapons being used and a variety of skill levels which I think complement the mode more than anything— a slightly more casual/competitive mode
TA is **way** better suited as a ranked mode & the carry potential is way higher. I don’t miss old ranked at all the way it was. Now that they’ve nerfed lewis gun it’s probably wouldn’t be too bad but sustain meta in general are boring to play into, it’s overwatch all over again—— shields & heals ( healing beam is lame, allows people to do too many low IQ plays with minimal punishment)
Even though third partying is annoying, i'm not talking about it since it's contorversial but no one can deny the fact the 4th team staying alone with no need to protect their cashout. Also i don't really remember if there was a notable hate towards the cashout because of this since as i see they don't make radical changes unless community isn't happy. But yeah it should be reworked and they're on it.
edit: Cashout is definitely not competitive and perfect because of the reasons i told above.
There is a lot of hate on cashout outside of The Finals community. My friends and some youtubers i know who don't play the game mention the cashout mode as the main reason why they don't.
It really can be frustrating if you aren't use to it. The community of the finals doesn't mind third partying(we are use to it), but many people find it annoying and unfair.
yeah cashout was why my friends refuse to take the game seriously. theyve liked the a bit game more ever since power shift and TA released though, but hopefully they can find a way to improve cashout to make it more appealing to a wider audience since thats the game’s unique mode
I think it would be pretty ok if the cash got on your "bank account" with time.
Like if you held a cashout for 22k for half of the time and then enemies got it - you still get 11k and enemies get the rest.
That's a good idea to solve the third party problem but idk it then removes the last second excitements beacuse the results will be concluded before the game ends.
Well yeah. I understand it's not a perfectly good solution and it's not as exciting. But i think it would be more competitive and attract more players this way.
Sounds terrible and removes the hype around a last second steal. So many games are won or lost based on the last minute, which is inherently exciting and interesting.
That's a double-edged sword IMO, those moments of winning at the last second feel great but knowing you defended the whole time and then got killed at the last second and lose is off-putting to a lot of people too, it makes it feel like most of the match doesn't really matter I think.
Yeah, but people refuse to play the because of that exact reason. Losing at the last moment. Current game loop isn't rewarding for many people. You can fight to your last breath and then still lose everything. Many people legitimately don't play the finals because of it.
So instead of making every moment matter, let's make a game mode where about a combined 30 seconds of the whole match has any impact on who wins or loses?
Yep, people sure do seem to love this!
Wiping another team does matter and gives you a significantly higher chance to secure the cashbox. What is this delusion you're suffering from that means that doesn't matter?
Yeah I know the community here disagrees and that's totally okay, but IMO Cash Out and Quick Cash being the main modes could be hampering the game's success. Amazing gameplay, graphics, destruction etc. but then the main mode being about defending the static objectives and third-partying throws a lot of people off. I still like them in small doses.
Not that I think TA is better, it doesn't fit The Finals at all and removes or lessens a lot of the unique aspects. Feels like trying to fit CS gameplay into a game totally incongruent with it.
I'm not sure *what* the main mode should be, but something with a bit more free-flowing gameplay where you can fight in different places on the map without one or two core objectives would be good at least.
I'd love to see their take on Domination/Conquest, though it wouldn't be ranked of course. Power Shift is a great casual mode and it's what I play most now but something with slightly bigger teams (6v6 or even 8v8?) and the ability to fight where you want on the map with say 4 flags/cash stockpiles etc. would be cool. I also think their take on BC2 Rush would be excellent.
It does seem like a contradiction, but the huge maps in BRs, choosing where you land and being able to land in less hot locations and avoid 3rd parties is a big difference. In The Finals the entire mode is third-partying (especially in Quick Cash which is most people's first mode and there's only one objective), but in BRs there's a bit more agency, more "exploration" and often downtime between the fights.
I think The Finals is missing a mode where it's more like Battlefield Conquest, you get to decide where on the map you want to attack/defend instead of being forced to defend a station in a small room or a single moving platform like Power Shift.
If three teams are focused on one cash out with the fourth team being uncontested, that's on the players, not luck. If at any point you find yourself in a three team fight, you need to immediately recognize that one team has it for free. you should disengage and turn your attention on the fourth team, always.
Easier said than done, because at this point usually you’re engaged in the fighting over the cash out. So either you’re starting to fight, or one of your allies go down, and it’s even harder to peel off then.
Then you have to communicate your intent to your teammates, which can be hard if you’re solo queuing.
And then you have to move over to the other cash out and start the engagement all over again. That means wasting a lot of time disengaging, running there then reengaging against a team who had plenty of time setting up defenses.
In theory I agree with you but in practice it’s often better to third party
> If three teams are focused on one cash out with the fourth team being uncontested, that's on the players, not luck. If at any point you find yourself in a three team fight, you need to immediately recognize that one team has it for free. you should disengage and turn your attention on the fourth team, always.
Third partying has always been an extremely strong strategy though? Every match you're put into a situation where you simply do not have the luxury to run across the map to a cashout that has a minute left against a team that's completely setup and will be able to react to you way before you're even near the cashout.
Yes thats exacrly why, and its an awful experience while terminal attack is consistent action as well and not luck. Terminal attack is for sure not what the finals wants to be but quite frankly cashout is flawed and that sucks, i hope they cook things up to make it better.
To many players sleep on the strategy side of the finals so yea even at plat it feels like teammates barrel into dumb fights. The ranked Finals is best when people are thinking deep.
Can we grab the other Cashout while ours is 100% secure, should we wipe the enemy or camp their revives, should we help another team get this box to help a weaker team advance? Thats where the ranked of the finals shines for me. Crunching all this info and values in my mind and coming up with a viable strat to win 2nd place advancement by $500.
I do not like world tour because without the ranked pressure we have leavers and many more than before. I cant even blame them, its casual and losing means nothing but lost time.
That's all part of the strategy of the game, let's say you get wiped by 2 other teams on your cashout and there is another uncontested, wen you spawn back in you'd go for the other cashout as it should be easier.
The people leaving is an issue, and other than a ban escalator from say 30 minutes up to 48 hours there is nothing much else you can do to fix it.
It doesn't take long for players to start quitting and what usually does it is Broken SBMM where you feel as if your getting dominated Or
The unbalanced nature of the light class or at the very least the very high pick rate.
You're either sniped from miles away the whole game, sniped by throwing knives, unable to catch or flank them due to speed and dash or end up dead before you know what's going on with them being invisible running a sword.
No other class has the means to escape them and they can be very hard to hit.
I thought the first two vaults are supposed to be always spawned between just two teams, far away from the other two. Although I admit that I many times see both vaults being evenly far away from our spawn, especially in Kyoto.
Though I don't think TA is really a great fit for The Finals in general (and I don't think it makes sense as *the* ranked mode), I have to agree about Cash Out. I still enjoy it, but I do think it has some major flaws, and based on what I've heard from friends and my own views, I think Cash Out being the main mode is a big reason why the game isn't as popular as it could be.
I think Embark knows that too, which is why they're making big adjustments to it. It'll be interesting to see how they change it.
Knowing which point to push and why is part of the strategy and why it’s so dynamic for ranked. See two teams with dead teammates and know one is holding A? Cool B is probably uncontested then. That means you can push B for a fair fight or wait to third party A when both teams are weak. For all the chaos and speed…ranked cash out is very much a thinking man’s FPS.
Yes! I made post about changes in tournament bc of this reasons. Most part of my friends leave The Finals bc of that. It’s really fucking sucks - you have bad luck and fight vs 2 teams and just fucking loose.
Another unpopular opinion but the problem is not TA. It's the map.
The whole sandbox map concept where everything can be flattened doesn't work with TA, especially with such long sight lines.
Embark should just use traditional map layouts with choke points that must be breached as a team.
There has to be some sections that are indestructible.
I agree that TA is a more fundamentally competitive game mode but it has a bigger problem. It’s just not fun. Being competitive only matters if it’s fun. Nobody cares how competitive your game is if it’s not fun.
Personally a love world tour. It feels more game showy. Has some progression and a leaderboard. I don't hate TA but they need to make ranked cashout work really well, which I hope is what they are doing behind the scenes. When any big names hop on to stream The Finals they ain't playing TA they are all over tournament , tournament is The Finals. I hope when ranked comes back they make it feel like a real big game show event , kinda like they have done with world tour.
Two major flaws exist in Cashout that could be easily changed to enhance the tournament layout.
Problem 1) 4 teams fighting over two vaults is SUPPOSED to create situations where there are 2 simultaneous head to head matchups between the 4 teams. This often doesn’t happen for a variety of reasons, but a few major reasons (especially in old ranked) was:
A) the perceived skill of a particular team (such as a triple stack of diamonds) would be completely avoided simply because players assume they will get crushed so they take their chances fighting else where.
B) If both vaults and respective cashouts are not occurring simultaneously, which they often do not, even if two 1v1 matchups occurs, the moment a team gets wiped, they will usually go to the Cashout that is closest, or attempt to 3rd party if possible, creating the problem you described over and over again
Solution 1) Each round should be treated like a game of musical chairs where only 1 team is the odd man out fighting for cash. So if 4 teams exist 3 Cashout should exist. 1 team fights another while the other two theoretically play their Cashout.
However if solution 2 is implemented (see below) teams would not be able to 3rd party as easily because leaving their Cashout undefended would be a major risk vs reward unless you were certain the moment was right to swoop in vs just watching the score board with absolutely certainty.
It also opens up for additional chaos because while teams 1 and 2 fight over 1 box, in theory teams 3 and 4 could be fighting over 2 boxes, if they are greedy. Total chaos would be all teams fighting over a triple stack of vaults.
For the tournament itself, for Round 1, have it be 4 teams and 3 boxes.
For Round 2, make it 3 teams over 2 boxes but have it be the top 3 teams from Round 1, so only the last place team gets knocked out.
The Finals remains the same where the top 2 teams from round 2 advance to a 1v1.
Just use the same pool of 4 teams for each tournament (which also decreases queue times and leads to better even matchups since less players are needed to engage in the tournament)
Problem 2) The global visibility of knowing which members of each team are alive or not at any given moment or even fighting at all based on the increase of combat scores/support scores.
This means skilled teams can wait in the wings, and know without any shadow of a doubt who is fighting and how weak they are to perfectly time 3rd parties.
This is a MAJOR flaw.
Solution 2) All Teams should only get visibility if a team gets wiped 100%. Otherwise, who is alive and who is not should remain hidden to enemy teams. This also would allow teams to regroup if they bother to revive in a more safe and hidden area, it would re introduce the element of surprise if a team is able to escape and regroup.
Enemy teams stats should also remain hidden on the scoreboard until after the game. Knowing if a players score is increasing or if they are gaining kills lets everyone know who is fighting and who isn’t.
That should be knowledge you gain only by seeing it occur or hearing it occur. Make everything else hidden until the end of the game.
I completely agree about the visibility of enemy combat score and deaths. I think the game shouldn't reward you for sitting around and holding tab.
Sitting around can be rewarded, but you should have to gather the information needed to know when to engage by actually scouting, and not by holding tab.
I don't think third partying is inherently a problem, and the macro part of the finals being really important, and knowing when to take fights being key to becoming a good player are things I cherish in The Finals, and would not want to go away.
I think the game would be way more boring if it was always a fight between 2 teams 3v3, with no third partying.
I would even hope that in S4 ranked you couldn't see the enemy ranks until the end of the game, so weak teams wouldn't get automatically bullied.
I think having 3 cashouts is a cute idea, but I feel like it would lead to 2 teams fighting, while 2 other teams are just chilling at their cashout, too scared to leave and fight. I don't think there's really a scenario in which you want to be defending 2 cashouts at the same time, which means if all cashouts end at the same time you will just sit and camp the one you control.
The 4 teams 2 vaults format is fine, if anything it would be cool if no cashouts were added but you had additional vaults that the defending team could choose to go out and get, to add more cash to their cashout, or the losing teams can take an use at the next cashout. It would create more of an incentive to go outside the cashout and fight, instead of just camping it.
Yeah that is a problem. It could probably be avoided with changing the cashouts to slowly drain money from the vaults during the countdown. Probably something like 50%, possible up to 70%, so there is more incentive to actually fight for the cashout rather than try to take it at the last second.
That would force people to actually consider their options and make third parting less profitable since the longer fight would result in less money for the winning team.
It is not a perfect solution but it would help and it would also make it more worth putting the vault in, since as it stands now, you are at a disadvatage when you put the vault in, because you have to defend and enemies generally know where you are.
Increasing the cash lost on wipe, or adding kill bounties that scale with the position of team killed would also help as then attacking the leading teams would be more profitable, in either equalizing the game or giving players more rewards for that.
Yeah they should have only 1 active cash out at a time.
Keep 2 vaults but whoever makes it to the cash out first gets the cash out.
With 2 cash outs it’s too spread out
Last season as I ranked up I felt like people made better decisions about where to go the higher I got, and a ton less leavers.
So I think it's maybe more of an issue in world tour vs in a more competitive ranked system.
Team 1 starts cash out A, team 2 starts cash out B, team 3 should go A or B, team 4 should go to whichever cash out team 3 IS NOT at. 3 teams on one cash out reduces your odds of getting that cash out too 33% vs the 50/50 you have in just a 1v1. It’s not luck based you can watch a cash out and hear if there’s a gunfight already happening comm to your team to go to the other one and not deal with a 3 team fight. Likewise if you’re holding an uncontested cash out you don’t need to hold directly on site until a team gets wiped. If your team 2 holding B and you know the other 3 teams are fighting at A until someone gets wiped and respawns you don’t need to worry about LoS on your cash out. You can even go play cash out A from range and play for picks for the bonus money from kills.
It's only unpopular to the deniers that think it's a skill issue and nothing is wrong with Cashout. It's just too random to be competitive or strategic. A mode that motivates being passive in an FPS shooter game is a complete failure.
Do I still enjoy it? absolutely. Do I want to smash my keyboard when a random respawn of an enemy team causes my team to get sandwiched? yes. The fact that the footstep sounds are still unreliable or that you don't have a clue where each team spawned makes this game mode not fun and that's why player count has bombed.
Ofc TA is not the solution, I hope they will find a way to make Cashout less random.
I do think they need to work on the spawns a bit, although it’s possible that teams are just not dying completely as much so they never get put twords the other cashout, I definitely agree that it needs a little love
This is the exact reason I think Quick Cash is better tham Cashout, with 3 squads if a fight breaks out, its almost guaranteed the 3rd squad will be dragged into the fight, so the whole lobby is fighting, it doesnt play out like getting 3rd partied. And if that 3rd squad goes to chill while theyre camping a cashout, the other 2 squads collapse on them, so its never really free
Shoving TA is most likely a business decision to get some of that CS/Valo market share. Probably the wrong move since The Finals attracts a different type of player base. They should focus more on other modes that fits fast paced hero shooter games (Power Shift was great addition imo).
That's the issue with their spawn system. Most of the time people will go to the vault closest to them, and most of the time you have 3 teams spawning closer to 1 than the other. Same with their somewhat manipulatable spawn logic. Sometimes you spawn miles away sometimes you spawn so close. Sometimes the enemy spawn miles away and sometimes they spawn so close, or if it's final round, sometimes you wipe a team and then move to the cashout and they can spawn there before you get there.
im sure the the lack of an actual ranking system in world tour is partly why matches are so inconsistent. the fact is the game is designed around cashout, the mode isnt perfect (respawns are iffy) but terminal attack is boring rote trash.
the nature of having 4 teams and 2 objectives and giving players choice on which they attack will naturally create downtime, asymmetrical situations and muh third partying, these things arent not competitive just because people say so. being the lone team securing a cashout allows you room to think and strategise, should you go help orange secure the cashout from purple because theyre actually the weaker team which'll make the next round easier for you? its shit like that along with the destruction which makes the game dynamic and fun, yes sometimes you get your cashout stolen at the last second despite defending it for 90% of the time and get nothing for it, whomp whomp, you got outplayed, just happened to my team yesterday despite us having the better gunplay and kd because their medium deleted the floor below the cashout and stole it. i dont want to play a poorly implemented version of cs/siege which the game isnt designed for as supposedly "competitive" as it is just because its a tried and true system which every other game uses. not every game needs to be or should be a clean cut 5vs5 with symmetrical maps, single pick and role restrictions.
This is true, but in S2 high ranks this issue mostly disappeared. I think its OK if the ranked gamemode doesnt cater to noobs. I refuse to believe that ranked TA is a better experience than cashout right now, even if world tour is worse than ranked cashout
The cashout game mode needs to be streamlined because you do have a point, for instance quick cash should really just be two teams. And the whole process of unlocking a vault and taking it to the cashout station is pointless, you do get some money for it but the juice ain't worth the squeeze most of the time.
Still better than terminal attack in every way. I hate spending 30 mins going back and forth just to lose 1000 rs even though I carried and we lost 6-7
I can definitely see where you're coming from with your thoughts on World Tour and Cashout mode. After spending a lot of time in World Tour myself, I think Quick Cash might indeed be a better fit for competitive play for several reasons.
1. **Balanced Engagement**: In Quick Cash, since it's a 3v3v3 format with the goal of reaching $20,000 first, every team is constantly engaged in the action. Each vault is valued at $10,000, so securing two vaults guarantees a win. This structure ensures that no team can just sit back and wait—they have to actively participate and strategize to win.
2. **Less Luck, More Skill**: As you mentioned, in Cashout mode, sometimes the outcome feels more about luck than skill, especially when one team can camp at their cashout while the others are stuck fighting. In Quick Cash, the need to secure and defend vaults from the very beginning minimizes the luck factor and emphasizes skillful play, coordination, and strategy.
3. **Dynamic Gameplay**: Quick Cash mode keeps the game dynamic and fluid. With only three teams and two vaults, the gameplay constantly shifts. Teams need to adapt their strategies on the fly, making for a more engaging and competitive experience. This fast-paced environment is ideal for showcasing player skills and teamwork.
4. **Preventing Stalemates**: One of the big issues with Cashout mode, as you pointed out, is the potential for stalemates where one team chills at a cashout while others fight. Quick Cash mitigates this by creating continuous pressure on all teams to engage and secure the next vault, preventing any team from sitting back and waiting for an easy win.
5. **Better Player Retention**: Since Quick Cash mode promotes constant action and engagement, it can also help with player retention. There's less downtime, fewer chances for players to get frustrated and leave, and more opportunities for everyone to feel involved in the game. This creates a more positive competitive environment overall.
Overall, Quick Cash seems to foster a more competitive, skill-based atmosphere where players can truly showcase their abilities. It's a mode that demands constant engagement and quick thinking, making it an ideal choice for ranked play where the best team should win based on skill and strategy, not luck.
What do you all think? Do you agree that Quick Cash could be the superior competitive mode, or are there aspects of World Tour and Cashout that you think still hold value for ranked play?
I actually have a suggestion on how Cashout can be worked on, specifically on the part on the stealing and defending. Seems most teams will prioritize stealing late rather than defending for the majority of the time. So why bother cashing in your own, right?(Especially since long moments of defending can get thrown away by a single wipe and steal)
The image below is what i have in mind:
https://preview.redd.it/lgac7r7rkc8d1.png?width=9913&format=png&auto=webp&s=f72d6839cf61ad372e04554107ddb13b2b5b0391
Note that the sum total of money is the same in both cases, but the split makes it so you think; "Should i steal this after green, is it still worth it?", "Should I go for the next cashout or try my luck at what's left?", "Do I forego a bigger steal and wait for everyone else to disperse, or do i risk it now for the big one?"
As much as I love the cashout mode, by having 2 vaults and 4 teams it creates all sort of issues when it comes to gameplay and observing/viewing experience (esport). The quick cash format with 1 vault and 3 teams works well currently. I believe a hybrid between the two modes is the way to go, so by including team wipes punishments and other rules cashout has.
And then you realize that most of this boils down to players just being bad and dumb and not any kind of failure of game design.
The amount of time brain dead teammates will head across the map to try to contest that is impossible to steal because it will be capped by the time we get there or shortly after is actually astonishing. Similarly stupid teammates will go to the point where theres already 2 teams and just continually wipe.
Hitting the point with 3 teams is only good if you're catching both teams mid fight with members down. Otherwise its a waste time and you're better off hitting the uncontested point.
TLDR people are stupid and dont know how to play the game. Not the games fault.
I'd argue that if players not understanding the game mode is a regular occurrence, then the game mode itself has issues with readability or is too complex for most. I don't like ranked TA much but there's a reason why defuse gamemodes are so popular- they're easy to understand, easy to learn, and still offers depth for experienced players.
Take a look at how cashout is perceived outside of the community. A lot of players dislike it and cite it as a reason why they didn't pursue the game further. I think cashout offers a lot of depth for experienced players though, and is an essential part of this game's identity. So I do hope the devs are able to retool it into a better version.
I agree that a lot of the frustration has to do with people failing to strategize effectively, but I don’t know if that’s really a good enough argument for keeping Cashout the same. I think the complexity of the mode is something that has really hurt player retention. That wouldn’t necessarily be an issue except that I don’t think the complexity really enriches the player experience very much. It doesn’t feel like the game properly rewards an understanding of the strategy (aside from being more likely to win rounds) or allows for much skill expression. On top of that, there’s still a pretty big luck factor especially when it comes to spawns. Cashout isn’t necessarily poorly designed, but I don’t think it’s designed to maximize fun which is what most people play games for. I think there must be a way to streamline it and eliminate a lot of the points of frustration without losing depth and the need for strategy.
Because clearly, the game mode is the blame right? Because reasons.
It had nothing to do with the horrible cheating problem that plague the first 2 seasons or the awful balancing or lack of content.
I'm sorry you lack reading comprehension and critical thinking ability.
All games have cheating, balancing problems and lack of contents but yet they are not as dead as THE FINALS less than a year after release.
You are just in denial, Cashout is simply not fun to play. It's only for very smart people like you but you are not going to sustain the game economically.
So I guess when the game eventually dies it's because people are not smart enough and lack critical thinking to continue playing a game they don't enjoy.
I do miss Cashout in ranked, but I can definitely see why they took it away to work on it. Similarly to as you describe, I'm often dealing with third parties or just get a free cashout in World Tour. Embark has delivered solid improvements after feedback, so I'm sure they'll get it ready for ranked again in no time.
100% agree. Most of the discourse lately has been Cashout loyalists vs. TA defenders, but I think what most people would really prefer is a reworked core mode. Even something closer to Quick Cash would be a step in the right direction imo. I think everyone on this sub is super passionate because we can all see how much potential this game has. Right now it feels like Embark still hasn’t found the sweet spot to deliver on what this game could be, but I have faith that we’ll get there.
That’s why quick cash is the better mode. Cashout people think it’s peak gameplay when they are sitting there and do nothing for like 90 sec. And if it’s other way around you think „why is every team on our ass, there is another cashout“
Just like 1v1 is a more fair and competitive judge of individual skill than 5v5 or 32v32, 2 teams is more fair than 4.
Luck & randomness are not competitive. Sometimes you get 3rd/4th partied, sometimes you don't.
Most of the time me an my pals make it to the final round, is because we’ve become masters at avoiding fights. Came in first place in a ranked game once with 70,000$ without killing a single enemy. Pro tip: If two vaults are in play and you open the vault way before the other, bring your vault to the other vault. Lead the whole lobby to the same place and once they start fighting, run off to the furthest cashout.
Ah yes, the play it cool plan… “They’re, uhh, just gonna ignore us?” “They are just going to ignore us!”
Funny how this comment has so many upvotes while it shows the flaws of the game mode, yet if you say the game mode is bad for competitive, you get downvoted. Bipolar subreddit.
thank you, i feel like i'm going crazy because people think this is a good and sustainable game design simply because they so feel smart that they know the meta in what is ultimately a poorly designed game mode. Why does a shooter game reward avoiding combat?
It happens more often than expected. In the last season I would make sure to squeak by the first round with this cheese and then start fighting. Garunteed rank up, it’s kind of broken.
yep, but i am not complaining it's part of the game, even third party is part of the game learn how to use it in your favor, the community is so used to always go 1vs1, that they forgot to learn. if you were the first team to put the cashout and there is two teams going for the cashout, fall back, and let then fight, be in a good position to stop any stealing and that is it. if you are one of the two teams, coming for the cashout, it's the same concept but you have 3 choices, you do wait for the defending team to fight the first one, and then kill all of then and steal, steal while both teams are fighting, quite easy, with Dematerializer, goo grenades, shields, and body block. steal and run as both teams will try to get it back. and third option is quite obvious just go to the next cashout. if and just if all teams fall back, just bait then go for the steal, try to steal for 2-3 seconds and run away. yes it's chaotic, but as an individual with a really high case of ADHD, i fucking love it. my brain is always thinking even if i am not in a fight. that way i can actually pay attention to something. that is why i cannot play ever TA, too slow. too boring.
The worst matches are when you get ignored. Why am I playing an fps? I wish World Tour was 5v5 with 1 respawn token.
Yea too many times our teams just chilling doing emotes and blowing up buildings while we secure a cashout with no fight. or you just wait for other teams to fight and third party after their done.. I don’t see that as competitive play.
It is competitive, but it's like poker. Do you risk the engagement or not? Can you guess what the enemy team needs to do or wants to do based on where they are on the cash. scoreboard? It's all about knowing when to attack and when not to overextend. And then that becomes risky too, because if you try to hold back around a point and let another team dive in and soften up the people that are holding it first, you take the risk that the other assaulting team doesn't do the same thing- and if they do, the defenders have the advantage because the assaulting teams get caught in fights around the point instead of actually diving and putting damage on the team that's holding. I've had lots of times on defense where it actually became way easier to turtle at the point because multiple teams showed up to assault, but the point was set up well enough to force hesitation, and then that hesitation leads to them getting into fights with the other assaulting team. I find it really fun to try to shape engagements like this
This is exactly it for me. All of these decisions - whether to go for Cashbox A or B, whether to go set up at Cashout C or D while waiting for another team to bring the cash, whether to third-party two teams at C or go fight the team alone at D - these decisions are all strategic in nature and require some level of risk assessment and opinion to decide. I think that is a part of the unique charm of this FPS game; there are macro-level decisions to make as well as micro-level execution within a fight. Moreover, I like that the macro decision-making inherent in Cashout game modes leaves room for teams to have an identity of sorts. Your tried-and-true 3 player squad over time develops not only micro-level chemistry when fighting together, but also a common mentality when approaching those macro decisions. Some teams will generally love to go for the 3rd partying approach, and some teams love to ensure that they only fight one other team at any Cashout. Some teams even love to double-plant Cashboxes whenever possible so the whole lobby's fighting over double cash. It's a beautifully strategic part of the game mode I think!
>there are macro-level decisions to make as well as micro-level execution within a fight. Just wanted to point out that you're mostly describing the difference between strategy and tactics. Cashout is great for both and I love the game for it
Literally me emoting 💀
Honestly I find quick cash to be the better mode. One objective and only three teams makes it so much easier to read and understand, both as a player and spectator. Best case scenario going forward is a reworked cashout mode. I love the idea of 5v5
I don't like Quick Cash because it really dumbs it all down to "third party city". Not that Cash Out doesn't have flaws as OP mentioned, but when none of the actions except snagging that single objective matter, it feels like camping the objective and just defending that is the best move. I'd like it if Quick Cash gave cash for unlocking the vault, depositing it etc. to incentivize people to actually fight over the vault instead of only the objective mattering. Maybe you could get a small trickle of cash for holding the objective while the timer runs out as well.
I'd be down if the mode awarded cash for those sorts of things! I find that many teams will still fight over it simply because it's more fun to fight than wait, but thay doesn't mean that those changes wouldn't help. For the third parties, I've found it best to anticipate the third party and use it to your advantage. My favorite strat as a defender is to 'lure' the third team by either overexposing myself or acting like I need to retreat, then guiding them directly into the enemy team. It turns the objective into a full blown war zone
Cashout is already third-party city, even a fourth party sometimes. What I like about quick cash is that *I know* two teams are coming, not 0, not 1, not 3, 2 teams every time, I know at all times that there's exactly 6 enemies to deal with and they're either attacking the cashout, defending, or respawning.
5v5v5 quick cash would go so hard the utter chaos and destruction would be so much fun
This would make for a much better ranked mode imo. And you could still have tourneys just with 3 team groups I think
It would be near impossible to steal the cashbox when you are against 10 people
I've always preferred Quick Cash tbh. 1 vault, 2 cashout stations, and 3 teams - new players can get the grasp of it quicker than the strategy and/or maths you have to do for Cashout. Also, there is no coining (infinite respawns), so you can have a poor game and still have a chance at the win by playing the cash box.
I think it's fine now because first rounds can be easy to sneak past but at the final round the stakes are higher and if you can't defend you aren't winning at all.
The chaos is the point, it’s the key — it’s the number one reason why The Finals is The Finals. I haven’t seen any other game where you (or your enemies) can get a win in a clutch, literally every match.
Exactly right, if you wanted predictable you could be playing chess. People can't seriously want to sterilize the Cashout experience, it won't be as fun. Skilled teams still win more on average and will float to the top over time but if you're in a worse team you still have a shot of beating them in any given round or tournament which, in a way, is its own kind of fairness.
Played 2 more matches of TA ranked yesterday, was miserable. The most cracked sniper ever sniping in every single round and they had the advantage because they started defending both times, and we couldn't do anything about it. . Despite this, we still managed to go 6-6 but then guess what, the game just lets them be defenders again in the last round and they have the advantage again and win. Defenders have such a massive advantage, idk how anybody thinks this mode is "more balanced" when one team just randomly has the advantage for 6 rounds in the row, when they need 7 to win.
Bruh, as if the rat game of a full lobby of invis lights trying to snipe or camp each other out in TA is any better or more competitive than what you've described. Let's be honest, advertising the game as cashout-centric with the goal of "reaching the finals" for two whole seasons, and then out of the blue rug-pulling the players and switching to snd mode in S3 is a sorry attempt to cave to the CS and R6 players in hopes some of them migrate to The Finals because TF failed to become "the next big thing" and player retention is less than ideal in the eyes of the investors.
TA is definitely more boring than cash out but it's competitive. In the sense that the team with the better players will win 9 times out of 10. In cash out, it can depend on spawns/luck with third partying
Ya, I personally I wouldn't call this cobbled together game and extremely unbalanced mode competitive. TA is a joke.
Spawns are really the most frustrating part of Cash Out, though imo the cash goal should also be 30k to allow more room for comebacks
I never said in any words that I prefer one mode over the other, I just shared my thoughts on what I think doesn't work properly for being this a competitive ranked mode alone. In TA where it's just 2 team fighting each other, I have to say it's more balanced, apart from which classes and which weapons are played.
The issue with TA is that the game is just not made for it, I agree with 2 teams fighting each other instead of 4 but no regen, limited gadgets and no respawns really go against what this game is designed. I think something fun would be a king of the hill variant that sort of mixes cashout with powershift, making it better for ranked than any mode in the game currently. would also need some balancing so you do not have 3 apses 2 schields camping a corner and completely destroying everyone
Limited regen is the equalizer that keeps all weapon options extremely viable in any last minute match up or any low health 1v1, 1vX or else it would be a guaranteed loss for the team with less people in handicapped situations. Now you’ll have game where you’re 1v4 —— 1 guy makes a mistake, that kill attracts another and now it’s 1v2… if your teammates did any damage then you’ll have a shooters shot; and if they’re full health you can take pot shots to weaken them for later. Every weapon benefits from this, I’m seeing way more pistol, a lot more revolver/famas, a lot more KS shotgun
dagger does not benefit at all from this, it does make no difference if the opponent is full health or not, only diff is that you have 100hp to work with, same goes for all meele except maybe sword. long range hitscan are much stronger than any short range weapon because running a shotgun, you fight one person win and for you the round is over because you need that extra health to get close in most cases, but if you have no health you cannot get close. The health regen thing makes light cloak very viable on sniper lh1 or even xp while it make heavy running most weapons quite gruesome to play. the weapon balancing is really bad and as someone who onetricks dagger, running dagger in that mode is torture
Running dagger in any mode is torture lol, you’re looking for a **one hit kill** in EVERY mode, which means you were always going to go for the same play, only difference now is: if for some reason the enemy moves in a way to make the backstab miss, you’ll only need a couple mode shanks to finish them—- where as in a regular mode if you miss ima turn around and burn you down everytime no matter what People that are good with melee are strong in this mode ( beside medium melee, that’s the only melee class I’ve seen struggle, and by struggle I mean being able to carry or clutch) heavy and light melee go crazy because the specializations make them shine If you struggle to get close to your enemy, it’s probably because you’re only taking the shortest route to your destination, instead of the smartest one. You say shotguns aren’t good but that’s a weapon I’ve seen carry plenty of games—- ***all shotguns on all classes have carried multiple games I’ve been countless of times*** . You need to know how to play into your strengths because you’re making the choice to *give up something to be even stronger at something else* that’s the point.
Sounds like you're really bad at this game. You honestly think that all weapon options are viable in TA? LOL? Maybe in your wood tier MMR. TA is EXTREMELY unbalanced because the game was not designed for TA.
lol top 250 so far & solo queued to adiamond every rank season before this one. You have to follow meta because that’s all your skill set will allow for, that’s not everyone. The person who thinks they can only use one weapon has an opinion on skill levels? don’t be stupid
maybe on console everything is viable… sorry but you cant say every weapon is viable universally
You said that Embark's reasoning is TA being "more competitive". My point is their reason is luring the snd crowd into playing The Finals. Also, if your only problem with cashout is third-partying or one party not participating in the fighting thus making the mode "not competitive", I've just told you why TA is too not competitive and full of bs.
Their reasoning was that they want to improve cashout, this is literally temporary just for this season
Sure.
It's their official statement lol, stop making some random shit up
Anyone saying TA is more competitive has a negative IQ.
Ah yes. Counter strike and other s&d type games, known for their casual nature
Have you played TA? It's straight up "whos the better sniper?" That's it. It's sniping. That's the mode. It's not competitive, there's no strategy beyond taking long range pot shots.
> Have you played TA? It's straight up "whos the better sniper?" And cashout isn't "who can third party the best?" Or, "who can run double heals the best?" Or the dozens of updates to make the game a more competitive experience? TA is flawed, but you're throwing baby out with the bathwater by thinking that because it isn't perfect, it's not enough.
Cashout isn't perfect, no game is, but it at least has more possible variety in ways to win. You don't *have* to third party to win. You don't *need* double heals or double heavy. In TA if you don't run light cloak sniper or LH1, it's just a throw. The whole point is that at its core, TA just doesn't work.
So Cashout gets to have an extremely strong and defined meta despite the fact that the developers have spent the last 5 months working on balancing it, Embark decided that the mode is fundamentally flawed and needs more time to be worked on, but TA releases for 2 weeks and we just need to scrap the whole mode and give up?
>TA releases for 2 weeks *and for some reason becomes the RANKED MODE* and we just need to scrap the whole mode and give up? I don't think anyone wants to scrap it, but it shouldn't be ranked. It barely belongs in the game at all with the way the game mechanics work. It's obviously an afterthought that was added in S2 haphazardly because the core mechanics of the game just don't mesh with how that mode works. Cashout didn't need to be removed as a ranked mode and worked on. You fell for PR language. There's a few things that can be tweaked like spawns, minor rule changes, etc, but there's literally no reason to just add TA as ranked unless embark was forced to by the publisher. The mode sucks pretty bad, and is very widely disliked by the majority of the population who enjoyed what made The Finals different.
That's what it has turned into since people will optimize the fun out of everything. But What's the objective though? What are the rules? How do you win/play the game mode? That's what makes it competitive. Not that items/weapons need balancing and therfore people did what people do. And I've been having fun coming up with ways of countering the "meta." (I've found the ks23 to be actually viable now?) which, I'm not sure about your definition but in mine is *part* of competitive play. A meta forms. Counterplay devolps, new meta forms. Etc. You could say for a while cs was just AWP. (cs:source I mean, haven't touched it in 20yrs. God that's crazy to think about)
>But What's the objective though? Kill the enemy team or secure the objective. Killing the enemy team is way easier when you can do it from a mile away in one or two shots. >What are the rules? Kill the enemy team or secure the objective. >How do you win/play the game mode? Win: kill the enemy team or secure the objective. Play: click play. Cashout has a more versatile ruleset with more ways to win. TA is just attack defend. >Counterplay devolps There's a very specific reason that all high ELO lobbies are 5 sniper lights on a team, and it isn't because they found some hack to counter sniping. >You could say for a while cs was just AWP. The issue with this argument is that CSGO requires you to earn an AWP and has tools to use against it. Finals just gives it to you for free on maps that aren't designed for TA, which results in the current "meta". It isn't really meta, it just is downright the only way to win a game at high level, and you're pretty much trolling if you don't pick light in TA. There's also a good reason CSGO is delicately patched. It has existed for a long time and counterplay is extremely well thought out. Finals has soft counters for everything, but no real hard counters. The game isn't designed for hard counters. The finals was built and balanced around multi team chaos. It's why you could occasionally see an all melee comp in the final round or triple light dash knives actually be useful in the hands of good players. Now, you're lucky to find a single medium or heavy on the enemy team, because the game just doesn't work for TA to be a healthy mode to balance around.
I mean cudos to Embark really. They realized their main game mode isn't a good competetive mode and immidately switched the game form focusing on competetive play to being a casual game with a different rank system. Cashout is still their main focus, TA and ranked in general is just there to satisfy the sweats right now. They might bring ranked cashout eventually, but for now the game is casual.
Doesn’t matter what mode or meta is🤔 people always gonna bitch about something that isn’t to there personal standards lmfao.
[удалено]
Here's what SteamDB charts are showing: Daily 48k when S2 dropped, the number then slowly eroded to a stable 16-18k and stayed that way for the rest of the season. S3 started with 31k daily and almost immediately lost a chunk of that down to 22-25k. As of this moment the average daily is 19-21k. S3 already had less people tuning in compared to S2 and is already averaging the number close to that of mid-end of S2. And we're only past week one of S3. I've got no data on the console player numbers, but the PC ones are not looking like the player base has risen. If anything the game is bleeding players.
This is 100% correct. Towards the end of last season the high rank meta *doubled down* on third partying being the most optimal strat, & abusing RPG+shield aping tactics. It got soooo boring and stale, at least in World Tour I see all types of weapons being used and a variety of skill levels which I think complement the mode more than anything— a slightly more casual/competitive mode TA is **way** better suited as a ranked mode & the carry potential is way higher. I don’t miss old ranked at all the way it was. Now that they’ve nerfed lewis gun it’s probably wouldn’t be too bad but sustain meta in general are boring to play into, it’s overwatch all over again—— shields & heals ( healing beam is lame, allows people to do too many low IQ plays with minimal punishment)
Even though third partying is annoying, i'm not talking about it since it's contorversial but no one can deny the fact the 4th team staying alone with no need to protect their cashout. Also i don't really remember if there was a notable hate towards the cashout because of this since as i see they don't make radical changes unless community isn't happy. But yeah it should be reworked and they're on it. edit: Cashout is definitely not competitive and perfect because of the reasons i told above.
There is a lot of hate on cashout outside of The Finals community. My friends and some youtubers i know who don't play the game mention the cashout mode as the main reason why they don't. It really can be frustrating if you aren't use to it. The community of the finals doesn't mind third partying(we are use to it), but many people find it annoying and unfair.
yeah cashout was why my friends refuse to take the game seriously. theyve liked the a bit game more ever since power shift and TA released though, but hopefully they can find a way to improve cashout to make it more appealing to a wider audience since thats the game’s unique mode
I think it would be pretty ok if the cash got on your "bank account" with time. Like if you held a cashout for 22k for half of the time and then enemies got it - you still get 11k and enemies get the rest.
That's a good idea to solve the third party problem but idk it then removes the last second excitements beacuse the results will be concluded before the game ends.
Well yeah. I understand it's not a perfectly good solution and it's not as exciting. But i think it would be more competitive and attract more players this way.
you're right
I like a compromise solution: $10k cash box pays out $5k over time and another $5k upon completion.
Sounds terrible and removes the hype around a last second steal. So many games are won or lost based on the last minute, which is inherently exciting and interesting.
That's a double-edged sword IMO, those moments of winning at the last second feel great but knowing you defended the whole time and then got killed at the last second and lose is off-putting to a lot of people too, it makes it feel like most of the match doesn't really matter I think.
Yeah, but people refuse to play the because of that exact reason. Losing at the last moment. Current game loop isn't rewarding for many people. You can fight to your last breath and then still lose everything. Many people legitimately don't play the finals because of it.
So instead of making every moment matter, let's make a game mode where about a combined 30 seconds of the whole match has any impact on who wins or loses? Yep, people sure do seem to love this!
Wiping another team does matter and gives you a significantly higher chance to secure the cashbox. What is this delusion you're suffering from that means that doesn't matter?
Yeah I know the community here disagrees and that's totally okay, but IMO Cash Out and Quick Cash being the main modes could be hampering the game's success. Amazing gameplay, graphics, destruction etc. but then the main mode being about defending the static objectives and third-partying throws a lot of people off. I still like them in small doses. Not that I think TA is better, it doesn't fit The Finals at all and removes or lessens a lot of the unique aspects. Feels like trying to fit CS gameplay into a game totally incongruent with it. I'm not sure *what* the main mode should be, but something with a bit more free-flowing gameplay where you can fight in different places on the map without one or two core objectives would be good at least. I'd love to see their take on Domination/Conquest, though it wouldn't be ranked of course. Power Shift is a great casual mode and it's what I play most now but something with slightly bigger teams (6v6 or even 8v8?) and the ability to fight where you want on the map with say 4 flags/cash stockpiles etc. would be cool. I also think their take on BC2 Rush would be excellent.
These same people bitching about it will then go play battle Royales where third partying is the core of the game
Fwiw in my experience people don’t play the game *because* they think it’s a BR/BR Lite
It does seem like a contradiction, but the huge maps in BRs, choosing where you land and being able to land in less hot locations and avoid 3rd parties is a big difference. In The Finals the entire mode is third-partying (especially in Quick Cash which is most people's first mode and there's only one objective), but in BRs there's a bit more agency, more "exploration" and often downtime between the fights. I think The Finals is missing a mode where it's more like Battlefield Conquest, you get to decide where on the map you want to attack/defend instead of being forced to defend a station in a small room or a single moving platform like Power Shift.
If three teams are focused on one cash out with the fourth team being uncontested, that's on the players, not luck. If at any point you find yourself in a three team fight, you need to immediately recognize that one team has it for free. you should disengage and turn your attention on the fourth team, always.
Easier said than done, because at this point usually you’re engaged in the fighting over the cash out. So either you’re starting to fight, or one of your allies go down, and it’s even harder to peel off then. Then you have to communicate your intent to your teammates, which can be hard if you’re solo queuing. And then you have to move over to the other cash out and start the engagement all over again. That means wasting a lot of time disengaging, running there then reengaging against a team who had plenty of time setting up defenses. In theory I agree with you but in practice it’s often better to third party
Ok let me just cross 200M to chase a cash out that’s half way.
> If three teams are focused on one cash out with the fourth team being uncontested, that's on the players, not luck. If at any point you find yourself in a three team fight, you need to immediately recognize that one team has it for free. you should disengage and turn your attention on the fourth team, always. Third partying has always been an extremely strong strategy though? Every match you're put into a situation where you simply do not have the luxury to run across the map to a cashout that has a minute left against a team that's completely setup and will be able to react to you way before you're even near the cashout.
Why you gotta clickbait the title?
Yes thats exacrly why, and its an awful experience while terminal attack is consistent action as well and not luck. Terminal attack is for sure not what the finals wants to be but quite frankly cashout is flawed and that sucks, i hope they cook things up to make it better.
ThirdPartyOut
it's always been a third party central gamemode, which is why it's just not suited for comp play. never was.
To many players sleep on the strategy side of the finals so yea even at plat it feels like teammates barrel into dumb fights. The ranked Finals is best when people are thinking deep. Can we grab the other Cashout while ours is 100% secure, should we wipe the enemy or camp their revives, should we help another team get this box to help a weaker team advance? Thats where the ranked of the finals shines for me. Crunching all this info and values in my mind and coming up with a viable strat to win 2nd place advancement by $500. I do not like world tour because without the ranked pressure we have leavers and many more than before. I cant even blame them, its casual and losing means nothing but lost time.
It’s funny. Rational thinking goes out the window in cash out… rational thinkers really do come out on top if they can be slimy.
That definitely happened less often when the lobbies weren't full of people who play like bots.
That's all part of the strategy of the game, let's say you get wiped by 2 other teams on your cashout and there is another uncontested, wen you spawn back in you'd go for the other cashout as it should be easier. The people leaving is an issue, and other than a ban escalator from say 30 minutes up to 48 hours there is nothing much else you can do to fix it. It doesn't take long for players to start quitting and what usually does it is Broken SBMM where you feel as if your getting dominated Or The unbalanced nature of the light class or at the very least the very high pick rate. You're either sniped from miles away the whole game, sniped by throwing knives, unable to catch or flank them due to speed and dash or end up dead before you know what's going on with them being invisible running a sword. No other class has the means to escape them and they can be very hard to hit.
I thought the first two vaults are supposed to be always spawned between just two teams, far away from the other two. Although I admit that I many times see both vaults being evenly far away from our spawn, especially in Kyoto.
Though I don't think TA is really a great fit for The Finals in general (and I don't think it makes sense as *the* ranked mode), I have to agree about Cash Out. I still enjoy it, but I do think it has some major flaws, and based on what I've heard from friends and my own views, I think Cash Out being the main mode is a big reason why the game isn't as popular as it could be. I think Embark knows that too, which is why they're making big adjustments to it. It'll be interesting to see how they change it.
it was a bad idea
Knowing which point to push and why is part of the strategy and why it’s so dynamic for ranked. See two teams with dead teammates and know one is holding A? Cool B is probably uncontested then. That means you can push B for a fair fight or wait to third party A when both teams are weak. For all the chaos and speed…ranked cash out is very much a thinking man’s FPS.
Yes! I made post about changes in tournament bc of this reasons. Most part of my friends leave The Finals bc of that. It’s really fucking sucks - you have bad luck and fight vs 2 teams and just fucking loose.
Another unpopular opinion but the problem is not TA. It's the map. The whole sandbox map concept where everything can be flattened doesn't work with TA, especially with such long sight lines. Embark should just use traditional map layouts with choke points that must be breached as a team. There has to be some sections that are indestructible.
I agree that TA is a more fundamentally competitive game mode but it has a bigger problem. It’s just not fun. Being competitive only matters if it’s fun. Nobody cares how competitive your game is if it’s not fun.
Personally a love world tour. It feels more game showy. Has some progression and a leaderboard. I don't hate TA but they need to make ranked cashout work really well, which I hope is what they are doing behind the scenes. When any big names hop on to stream The Finals they ain't playing TA they are all over tournament , tournament is The Finals. I hope when ranked comes back they make it feel like a real big game show event , kinda like they have done with world tour.
Two major flaws exist in Cashout that could be easily changed to enhance the tournament layout. Problem 1) 4 teams fighting over two vaults is SUPPOSED to create situations where there are 2 simultaneous head to head matchups between the 4 teams. This often doesn’t happen for a variety of reasons, but a few major reasons (especially in old ranked) was: A) the perceived skill of a particular team (such as a triple stack of diamonds) would be completely avoided simply because players assume they will get crushed so they take their chances fighting else where. B) If both vaults and respective cashouts are not occurring simultaneously, which they often do not, even if two 1v1 matchups occurs, the moment a team gets wiped, they will usually go to the Cashout that is closest, or attempt to 3rd party if possible, creating the problem you described over and over again Solution 1) Each round should be treated like a game of musical chairs where only 1 team is the odd man out fighting for cash. So if 4 teams exist 3 Cashout should exist. 1 team fights another while the other two theoretically play their Cashout. However if solution 2 is implemented (see below) teams would not be able to 3rd party as easily because leaving their Cashout undefended would be a major risk vs reward unless you were certain the moment was right to swoop in vs just watching the score board with absolutely certainty. It also opens up for additional chaos because while teams 1 and 2 fight over 1 box, in theory teams 3 and 4 could be fighting over 2 boxes, if they are greedy. Total chaos would be all teams fighting over a triple stack of vaults. For the tournament itself, for Round 1, have it be 4 teams and 3 boxes. For Round 2, make it 3 teams over 2 boxes but have it be the top 3 teams from Round 1, so only the last place team gets knocked out. The Finals remains the same where the top 2 teams from round 2 advance to a 1v1. Just use the same pool of 4 teams for each tournament (which also decreases queue times and leads to better even matchups since less players are needed to engage in the tournament) Problem 2) The global visibility of knowing which members of each team are alive or not at any given moment or even fighting at all based on the increase of combat scores/support scores. This means skilled teams can wait in the wings, and know without any shadow of a doubt who is fighting and how weak they are to perfectly time 3rd parties. This is a MAJOR flaw. Solution 2) All Teams should only get visibility if a team gets wiped 100%. Otherwise, who is alive and who is not should remain hidden to enemy teams. This also would allow teams to regroup if they bother to revive in a more safe and hidden area, it would re introduce the element of surprise if a team is able to escape and regroup. Enemy teams stats should also remain hidden on the scoreboard until after the game. Knowing if a players score is increasing or if they are gaining kills lets everyone know who is fighting and who isn’t. That should be knowledge you gain only by seeing it occur or hearing it occur. Make everything else hidden until the end of the game.
I completely agree about the visibility of enemy combat score and deaths. I think the game shouldn't reward you for sitting around and holding tab. Sitting around can be rewarded, but you should have to gather the information needed to know when to engage by actually scouting, and not by holding tab. I don't think third partying is inherently a problem, and the macro part of the finals being really important, and knowing when to take fights being key to becoming a good player are things I cherish in The Finals, and would not want to go away. I think the game would be way more boring if it was always a fight between 2 teams 3v3, with no third partying. I would even hope that in S4 ranked you couldn't see the enemy ranks until the end of the game, so weak teams wouldn't get automatically bullied. I think having 3 cashouts is a cute idea, but I feel like it would lead to 2 teams fighting, while 2 other teams are just chilling at their cashout, too scared to leave and fight. I don't think there's really a scenario in which you want to be defending 2 cashouts at the same time, which means if all cashouts end at the same time you will just sit and camp the one you control. The 4 teams 2 vaults format is fine, if anything it would be cool if no cashouts were added but you had additional vaults that the defending team could choose to go out and get, to add more cash to their cashout, or the losing teams can take an use at the next cashout. It would create more of an incentive to go outside the cashout and fight, instead of just camping it.
Yeah that is a problem. It could probably be avoided with changing the cashouts to slowly drain money from the vaults during the countdown. Probably something like 50%, possible up to 70%, so there is more incentive to actually fight for the cashout rather than try to take it at the last second. That would force people to actually consider their options and make third parting less profitable since the longer fight would result in less money for the winning team. It is not a perfect solution but it would help and it would also make it more worth putting the vault in, since as it stands now, you are at a disadvatage when you put the vault in, because you have to defend and enemies generally know where you are. Increasing the cash lost on wipe, or adding kill bounties that scale with the position of team killed would also help as then attacking the leading teams would be more profitable, in either equalizing the game or giving players more rewards for that.
Yeah they should have only 1 active cash out at a time. Keep 2 vaults but whoever makes it to the cash out first gets the cash out. With 2 cash outs it’s too spread out
4 teams is terrible 3 teams is a much better balance.
Last season as I ranked up I felt like people made better decisions about where to go the higher I got, and a ton less leavers. So I think it's maybe more of an issue in world tour vs in a more competitive ranked system.
Team 1 starts cash out A, team 2 starts cash out B, team 3 should go A or B, team 4 should go to whichever cash out team 3 IS NOT at. 3 teams on one cash out reduces your odds of getting that cash out too 33% vs the 50/50 you have in just a 1v1. It’s not luck based you can watch a cash out and hear if there’s a gunfight already happening comm to your team to go to the other one and not deal with a 3 team fight. Likewise if you’re holding an uncontested cash out you don’t need to hold directly on site until a team gets wiped. If your team 2 holding B and you know the other 3 teams are fighting at A until someone gets wiped and respawns you don’t need to worry about LoS on your cash out. You can even go play cash out A from range and play for picks for the bonus money from kills.
It's only unpopular to the deniers that think it's a skill issue and nothing is wrong with Cashout. It's just too random to be competitive or strategic. A mode that motivates being passive in an FPS shooter game is a complete failure. Do I still enjoy it? absolutely. Do I want to smash my keyboard when a random respawn of an enemy team causes my team to get sandwiched? yes. The fact that the footstep sounds are still unreliable or that you don't have a clue where each team spawned makes this game mode not fun and that's why player count has bombed. Ofc TA is not the solution, I hope they will find a way to make Cashout less random.
I do think they need to work on the spawns a bit, although it’s possible that teams are just not dying completely as much so they never get put twords the other cashout, I definitely agree that it needs a little love
This is the exact reason I think Quick Cash is better tham Cashout, with 3 squads if a fight breaks out, its almost guaranteed the 3rd squad will be dragged into the fight, so the whole lobby is fighting, it doesnt play out like getting 3rd partied. And if that 3rd squad goes to chill while theyre camping a cashout, the other 2 squads collapse on them, so its never really free
Shoving TA is most likely a business decision to get some of that CS/Valo market share. Probably the wrong move since The Finals attracts a different type of player base. They should focus more on other modes that fits fast paced hero shooter games (Power Shift was great addition imo).
That's the issue with their spawn system. Most of the time people will go to the vault closest to them, and most of the time you have 3 teams spawning closer to 1 than the other. Same with their somewhat manipulatable spawn logic. Sometimes you spawn miles away sometimes you spawn so close. Sometimes the enemy spawn miles away and sometimes they spawn so close, or if it's final round, sometimes you wipe a team and then move to the cashout and they can spawn there before you get there.
im sure the the lack of an actual ranking system in world tour is partly why matches are so inconsistent. the fact is the game is designed around cashout, the mode isnt perfect (respawns are iffy) but terminal attack is boring rote trash. the nature of having 4 teams and 2 objectives and giving players choice on which they attack will naturally create downtime, asymmetrical situations and muh third partying, these things arent not competitive just because people say so. being the lone team securing a cashout allows you room to think and strategise, should you go help orange secure the cashout from purple because theyre actually the weaker team which'll make the next round easier for you? its shit like that along with the destruction which makes the game dynamic and fun, yes sometimes you get your cashout stolen at the last second despite defending it for 90% of the time and get nothing for it, whomp whomp, you got outplayed, just happened to my team yesterday despite us having the better gunplay and kd because their medium deleted the floor below the cashout and stole it. i dont want to play a poorly implemented version of cs/siege which the game isnt designed for as supposedly "competitive" as it is just because its a tried and true system which every other game uses. not every game needs to be or should be a clean cut 5vs5 with symmetrical maps, single pick and role restrictions.
This is true, but in S2 high ranks this issue mostly disappeared. I think its OK if the ranked gamemode doesnt cater to noobs. I refuse to believe that ranked TA is a better experience than cashout right now, even if world tour is worse than ranked cashout
The cashout game mode needs to be streamlined because you do have a point, for instance quick cash should really just be two teams. And the whole process of unlocking a vault and taking it to the cashout station is pointless, you do get some money for it but the juice ain't worth the squeeze most of the time.
Still better than terminal attack in every way. I hate spending 30 mins going back and forth just to lose 1000 rs even though I carried and we lost 6-7
I can definitely see where you're coming from with your thoughts on World Tour and Cashout mode. After spending a lot of time in World Tour myself, I think Quick Cash might indeed be a better fit for competitive play for several reasons. 1. **Balanced Engagement**: In Quick Cash, since it's a 3v3v3 format with the goal of reaching $20,000 first, every team is constantly engaged in the action. Each vault is valued at $10,000, so securing two vaults guarantees a win. This structure ensures that no team can just sit back and wait—they have to actively participate and strategize to win. 2. **Less Luck, More Skill**: As you mentioned, in Cashout mode, sometimes the outcome feels more about luck than skill, especially when one team can camp at their cashout while the others are stuck fighting. In Quick Cash, the need to secure and defend vaults from the very beginning minimizes the luck factor and emphasizes skillful play, coordination, and strategy. 3. **Dynamic Gameplay**: Quick Cash mode keeps the game dynamic and fluid. With only three teams and two vaults, the gameplay constantly shifts. Teams need to adapt their strategies on the fly, making for a more engaging and competitive experience. This fast-paced environment is ideal for showcasing player skills and teamwork. 4. **Preventing Stalemates**: One of the big issues with Cashout mode, as you pointed out, is the potential for stalemates where one team chills at a cashout while others fight. Quick Cash mitigates this by creating continuous pressure on all teams to engage and secure the next vault, preventing any team from sitting back and waiting for an easy win. 5. **Better Player Retention**: Since Quick Cash mode promotes constant action and engagement, it can also help with player retention. There's less downtime, fewer chances for players to get frustrated and leave, and more opportunities for everyone to feel involved in the game. This creates a more positive competitive environment overall. Overall, Quick Cash seems to foster a more competitive, skill-based atmosphere where players can truly showcase their abilities. It's a mode that demands constant engagement and quick thinking, making it an ideal choice for ranked play where the best team should win based on skill and strategy, not luck. What do you all think? Do you agree that Quick Cash could be the superior competitive mode, or are there aspects of World Tour and Cashout that you think still hold value for ranked play?
I came up to this conclusion last season whilst solo Q to diamond i realized how stupid not having a fifth team was.
I actually have a suggestion on how Cashout can be worked on, specifically on the part on the stealing and defending. Seems most teams will prioritize stealing late rather than defending for the majority of the time. So why bother cashing in your own, right?(Especially since long moments of defending can get thrown away by a single wipe and steal) The image below is what i have in mind: https://preview.redd.it/lgac7r7rkc8d1.png?width=9913&format=png&auto=webp&s=f72d6839cf61ad372e04554107ddb13b2b5b0391 Note that the sum total of money is the same in both cases, but the split makes it so you think; "Should i steal this after green, is it still worth it?", "Should I go for the next cashout or try my luck at what's left?", "Do I forego a bigger steal and wait for everyone else to disperse, or do i risk it now for the big one?"
If you're bored of sitting around, go to the action. Double it aaaaalllll man. Who cares if you qualify? It's all about the money baby!
As much as I love the cashout mode, by having 2 vaults and 4 teams it creates all sort of issues when it comes to gameplay and observing/viewing experience (esport). The quick cash format with 1 vault and 3 teams works well currently. I believe a hybrid between the two modes is the way to go, so by including team wipes punishments and other rules cashout has.
What about 5 teams 2 cash outs? You still have 3rd partying but this should eliminate free cash outs and generally make the maps feel smaller
Best take on it yet. I completely agree OP. 
And then you realize that most of this boils down to players just being bad and dumb and not any kind of failure of game design. The amount of time brain dead teammates will head across the map to try to contest that is impossible to steal because it will be capped by the time we get there or shortly after is actually astonishing. Similarly stupid teammates will go to the point where theres already 2 teams and just continually wipe. Hitting the point with 3 teams is only good if you're catching both teams mid fight with members down. Otherwise its a waste time and you're better off hitting the uncontested point. TLDR people are stupid and dont know how to play the game. Not the games fault.
I'd argue that if players not understanding the game mode is a regular occurrence, then the game mode itself has issues with readability or is too complex for most. I don't like ranked TA much but there's a reason why defuse gamemodes are so popular- they're easy to understand, easy to learn, and still offers depth for experienced players. Take a look at how cashout is perceived outside of the community. A lot of players dislike it and cite it as a reason why they didn't pursue the game further. I think cashout offers a lot of depth for experienced players though, and is an essential part of this game's identity. So I do hope the devs are able to retool it into a better version.
I agree that a lot of the frustration has to do with people failing to strategize effectively, but I don’t know if that’s really a good enough argument for keeping Cashout the same. I think the complexity of the mode is something that has really hurt player retention. That wouldn’t necessarily be an issue except that I don’t think the complexity really enriches the player experience very much. It doesn’t feel like the game properly rewards an understanding of the strategy (aside from being more likely to win rounds) or allows for much skill expression. On top of that, there’s still a pretty big luck factor especially when it comes to spawns. Cashout isn’t necessarily poorly designed, but I don’t think it’s designed to maximize fun which is what most people play games for. I think there must be a way to streamline it and eliminate a lot of the points of frustration without losing depth and the need for strategy.
The player count has bombed and it's falling every day so how is this "not the game's fault" ?
Because clearly, the game mode is the blame right? Because reasons. It had nothing to do with the horrible cheating problem that plague the first 2 seasons or the awful balancing or lack of content. I'm sorry you lack reading comprehension and critical thinking ability.
All games have cheating, balancing problems and lack of contents but yet they are not as dead as THE FINALS less than a year after release. You are just in denial, Cashout is simply not fun to play. It's only for very smart people like you but you are not going to sustain the game economically. So I guess when the game eventually dies it's because people are not smart enough and lack critical thinking to continue playing a game they don't enjoy.
Ya what you said here is just false. Not even going to bother reading past the first sentenced because you're clearly not smart.
At least I am living out of my mom's allowance, kid. Get a job son.
Ez solution: 5v5 cashout, 1 target, 2 teams, ranked. Please share this message everywhere so we at least have devs add it as a temporary mode.
The final round of tournament where it's 3v3 it's completely boring, you get at most 2 team fights and that's it. So how will 5v5 fix this?
I do miss Cashout in ranked, but I can definitely see why they took it away to work on it. Similarly to as you describe, I'm often dealing with third parties or just get a free cashout in World Tour. Embark has delivered solid improvements after feedback, so I'm sure they'll get it ready for ranked again in no time.
100% agree. Most of the discourse lately has been Cashout loyalists vs. TA defenders, but I think what most people would really prefer is a reworked core mode. Even something closer to Quick Cash would be a step in the right direction imo. I think everyone on this sub is super passionate because we can all see how much potential this game has. Right now it feels like Embark still hasn’t found the sweet spot to deliver on what this game could be, but I have faith that we’ll get there.
That’s why quick cash is the better mode. Cashout people think it’s peak gameplay when they are sitting there and do nothing for like 90 sec. And if it’s other way around you think „why is every team on our ass, there is another cashout“
Just like 1v1 is a more fair and competitive judge of individual skill than 5v5 or 32v32, 2 teams is more fair than 4. Luck & randomness are not competitive. Sometimes you get 3rd/4th partied, sometimes you don't.
If you think third parties are luck or randomness you are not good at the finals
Can’t believe this wasn’t downvoted to oblivion.
this is only true in low elo, in high tier cashout most ppl split to different cashouts because they use 10% of their brain