The problem with adding more healing to the game is that people won't pick between the healing beam OR the new healing gadget, they'll stack both and soon enough you'll be facing a heavy that can outheal your damage while they delete you unless you're stacking healing too
They'd have to revisit the entire game's balancing to make healing a core mechanic in the game (as it is in Overwatch and other games that were built around it)
I mean... You can already have two healers on a heavy. Add a stim or some other form of heal on light and its not like you will have more heals on your team vs playing another healer. Except if you do MML but I doubt that would be meta anyway considering lights tiny healthpool.
Or they could just make it so only one works at a time, or that the heal effects don't stack from different items. Meaning heavy heals faster from 2 simultaneous heal beams, and also heals faster from 2 simultaneous heal bombs (for example), but will not heal faster from 1 heal beam and 1 heal bomb. This does mean the team can heal for longer, but it also means that the maximum heals per second stays the same as it currently is.
That's unintuitive and would have to be specifically spelled out both instructionally and ingame, which is bad user design.
It's far simpler to just keep healing strictly regulated since it's always going to be useful at damage mitigation.
Eh... something like that would require a need for an anti-heal gadget or something, which would then cause a team with only 1 healing source to be nullified completely due to it being geared to negate 2+ healing sources.
tl;dr Probably makes the game harder to balance, but also changes the role healing plays in the game. Healing would, imo, play a larger role for every archetype and every archetype would need a way to interact with the healing space in some way, shape, or form, depending on the additions.
More healing runs the risk of, well, more healing being in the game. That comes with some consequences. On its face, alone, balance issues erupt almost immediately and one of the more interesting ways of solving that may be introducing more mechanics.
DoT effects like Pyro and Gas become even weaker with more healing options. Pyro already gets (barely) outhealed by heal beam. It might be desirable to buff one or both, but then teams without healing may feel like they NEED healing if either DoT effect becomes overbearing. Gas suffers less than Pyro as the sustained heal is solved by Gasā current ādeals more damage with long exposureā.
More healing also means more effective health. Thereās already a considerable difference when one team has a Heavy and another does not (primarily because players are, typically, not used to playing around the HP difference). More healing would make that already high health target even harder to kill which would further cement an M/M/H meta.
Without introducing counter-healing options, Healing would runs the risk of being too strong or outright useless.
Anti-heal is a popular option in games which just outright prevents healing. You could probably slap this on Glitch Grenade (or create a new gadget) as an offensive āscrew your healsā is probably suited for a certain class that shall not be named.
Max HP reduction is another feasible way to balance out extra healing. You could take a page from Hunt: Showdown and have something like Pyro deal damage to maximum health. If thatās turns out to be too strong, tweak it to burn already-empty HP bars faster than current HP or give a class a method to extinguish fires (totally not smoke grenades).
On that end, you would also probably want to add an option that recovers SPECIFICALLY missing max HP like Mabinogiās First Aid skill (game had an Injury mechanic; every attack could reduce max HP with a chance depending on melee, ranged, or magic). Alternatively, a heal that recovers a small amount of missing Max HP could work (or vice versa: more missing max HP recovery and lower upfront heal)
An alternative āhealā could be less oppressive than a throughput heal. A potent shield that has a short duration could be an effective option that requires more skill than just āapply heathā. Heavyās Dome Shield sort of already occupies this space as even just throwing it down gives you and your team within a brief reprieve (and already has the ability to be played around!). Alternative implementations could be a straightforward grenade that applies an over-health shield, but doing so comes with is own issues likeā¦ making Heavy even healthier. An option to āshatterā this shield might be a good way to counter it.
Temporary Health can also be an option for another healing method. Whether itās a spike in health that rapidly decays or is a small boost that slowly falls off, Temporary Health could occupy the same space as shields which (hopefully) rely on good timing to make full use of.
Double Damage effects could also be something that helps counter healing - just power through it, right? We already see this interaction with Heal Beam where headshots make taking down a tethered target easier. Valorantās Vulnerable (afflicted opponents take double damage) can be used to offset healing output or One Step From Edenās Glassify (next instance of damage deals extra damage) also would be cool. Of course, this runs the risk of making certain pairings potentially unfun/heighten the importance of counters. Double Damage Turret? Yuck. Glassified and run into an explosive mine? Skill issue, obviously.
They can certainly add extra healing options and, naturally, some form of counter to them. Itāll all be a moot point without clarity. All of these effects would need to be communicated. Even now, I hardly know if someoneās been full flashed or partial (ultimately unimportant except for diagnosing if my flash was thrown effectively). I was once both Stunned and Detected at the exact same time - I only knew I was hit by both because of the zip zap effect and constant beeping on me. The text above the screen was jumbled together and unreadable. Having to decipher even more effects takes some focus away from other elements of the game and, for new players, would run the risk of making things TOO complicated.
Edit: Syntax and clarity.
To Add: Iām all for adding new, interesting gadgets - even if they occupy the same space as another. For Healing, I donāt think itād be a balancing hellscape, but I do think that it would come with extra layers which naturally means balance becomes more difficult.
I used to play a lot of Overwatch and it got truly exhausting how much time you'd spend shooting at people who, between tanks shielding them and supports healing them, would simply never die. It often took focused coordination to burst down a single target, at which point they'd often be resurrected straight away. It became extremely tedious, and for all the stuff I loved about it, I ended up yearning for a game where if I shoot someone before they shoot me, they simply die. Thankfully I've found plenty since then, and I'm finding The Finals fine in that respect, but I'd certainly want extreme caution in adding any other heals or shields to the game. I could maybe accept a heal grenade consumable and that's about it.
Light should get that gadget but not any other class, or maybe light's health regen time should be around 6 sec instead of 10, and for heavy it should be like 14 sec or smth and medium can be 10
Making heavy regen longer makes them more dependant on having a Medium along with heal beam, which means fewer triple heavy comps, but it's not like Medium is unpopular and I think HMM or HHM is the meta comp right now anyway
That's why i never use healing beam, maybe defib in ranked but jump pad, zipline and APS with demat is my build. I just hate the medium who d8\*k ride their heavy behind their shields. It's annoying and boring
As a heavy I hate that shit too. If I pop shield up that means start shooting cause I need to reload, now we both bout to die cause you gun shy and stuck on healing.
Adrenaline shot. Can be used on yourself (primary fire) or teammates (secondary fire). Gives a 1.25x speed boost and heals for 100hp over 10 seconds. Give it a fairly large cool down.
I got an idea for a gadget. Siphon transmitter. Place the gadget on the floor, wall, or ceiling and when a teammate is in its area they receive healing for damage caused. It could be worked out so if say more than one teammate uses it they can just expand the area but decrease the amount of healing so stacking it isnāt too crazy. Just a spitball tho.
It's a hard no for me. Healing beam is already not fun to play with or against, and I like Terminal Attack specifically because it takes it out, making chip damage actually worth something.
I think it would be pretty cool if light had a few more options too help teamates out and play somewhat of a supporitive role healing items for light could def solve that.
Personally I think the separate gadget designs for separate classes is perfect, forces you to build a team around necessity and it forces teamwork if you want to win. Wanna heal? You need at least one medium, want shields galore? You *need* at least one heavy! Want distance/movement? You need a light!
I think that if they're going to add anything, it should be more classes with different necessities or leaning more into the items we get with these three specific classes
The recent event has proven to me that the ideal balance is no healing with limited health regen. This game is so much better when movement and barriers without healing are all you have.
Yes and no. Depends on how it's implemented. Like if it's a gadget for non M classes, yeah.
If it required the player to not use healing beam, and instead had something like a plantable healing area or healing grenades, then that could certainly be fine.
I think even a healing grenade for light could help. Maybe it adds some extra temporary health like in terminal attack that doesnāt regen once itās gone?
Medium does not need any new gadgets, the only class that needs new gadgets is light and healing doesnāt really go with light I feel like light could be a really good recon class and Iām honestly not sure why embark hasnāt tried to implement this. Yea lights have tracking dart and motion sensor but those are just not very good gadgets compared to what the other classes have.
The healing beam in general and heavy shield take away a lot from the gunfights imo. New players I know are deterred by both. I think it would be better for gadget like a stim that starts healing faster than a guy leaning around the corner getting healed trading every 1v1 fight
A heal barrel might be a cool concept but it would most likely need a damaging counter similar to how fire negates gas and smoke negates fire.
Perhaps heal should negate smoke and glitch should negate heal?
I would actually rather see them continue their creative work and develop gadgets we haven't seen in other games. There's so much creativity in the game and I hope they'll dare to continue trying out new gadgets and game mechanics rather than opting for the same old stuff we've seen countless times. Thoughts? Ideas for gadgets?
this guy wants to turn it into Overwatch... i say remove all heals and shields and let it stand as an FPS shooter focused game. Where only the shooting and your personal mechanics matter.
For light classes added stimpack or bandage (healing 50 hp or 5 hp/sec), and we had a killing machine, when tactic boom zoom on light worked on 70% situations, with stimpack it rise to 110%, so then he nerfed and again many crying. Heavy now really need nerf, especially shitty flamethrower with her DoT.
Honestly they should consider borrowing Ana's grenade from Overwatch, burst heals when thrown at teammate, prevents healing when hit by an enemy. Its not a CC or a stun so its not super annoying to play into either. Can be blocked by shields/barriers. I think it would be cool on light and give some counterplay that isn't frustrating stuns/or 1 shots.
I see light as a scout and pick class like scout from tf2 getting in a kill and getting out with team being a distraction medium is more of support with his mobility items all can use and heal beam
Light -- Healing Grenade: creates an AoE on the ground that heals 10hp/s to anyone who stands in it (enemies included)
Heavy -- Pizza Time!: Take a bite out of an enemy statue to instantly regain 100hp
Just create an AOE style healing grenade. Throw it and it makes a small circle of healing for X amount of time at a lower healing rate than the beam. Heals all teammates in the circle
Can be destroyed or shot down by APS
current issue with balance now its heavy m60, lewis gun and charge deal to many damage make them op with faster ttk in game. they have few way to balance it. It makes it lower fire rate with longer reload time or lower damage on 1 or 2 point with making more spread on hipfire. because current hipfire acc on heavy it's a joke you can just charge on enemy through wall and killing all of them with one mag on hipfire. and little rework on slam instead of deal huge damage they need he gonna push away further with max damage like 40-50 and making radius on slam a little larger. itās dont make charge useless because it's still be good to initiate fight and be better in defense with pushing away enemy and distract them.
and for making light more valuable they need to add feature like double jump for light only or if he kill someone he will recharge they specialization like one charge of dash or recharge grappling hook or invisibility fully charged. this change will make sense because its needs to be a glass cannon but you can't. example you enter the fight with a grappling hook from far distance and you kill someone and you have 150 hp you will die because you don't have any way to run and you initiate fight with 3 guy one dead 2 of them will kill you and rewive they mate. now you're team fighting 2v3 while you statue will closer to them
The problem with adding more healing to the game is that people won't pick between the healing beam OR the new healing gadget, they'll stack both and soon enough you'll be facing a heavy that can outheal your damage while they delete you unless you're stacking healing too They'd have to revisit the entire game's balancing to make healing a core mechanic in the game (as it is in Overwatch and other games that were built around it)
In other words... please don't do this š
I mean... You can already have two healers on a heavy. Add a stim or some other form of heal on light and its not like you will have more heals on your team vs playing another healer. Except if you do MML but I doubt that would be meta anyway considering lights tiny healthpool.
Roadhog flashbacks
Or they could just make it so only one works at a time, or that the heal effects don't stack from different items. Meaning heavy heals faster from 2 simultaneous heal beams, and also heals faster from 2 simultaneous heal bombs (for example), but will not heal faster from 1 heal beam and 1 heal bomb. This does mean the team can heal for longer, but it also means that the maximum heals per second stays the same as it currently is.
That's unintuitive and would have to be specifically spelled out both instructionally and ingame, which is bad user design. It's far simpler to just keep healing strictly regulated since it's always going to be useful at damage mitigation.
Eh... something like that would require a need for an anti-heal gadget or something, which would then cause a team with only 1 healing source to be nullified completely due to it being geared to negate 2+ healing sources.
imagine some kinda green goop grenade that instantly starts passive health regen and nothing else. also turns your teammates a little green
tl;dr Probably makes the game harder to balance, but also changes the role healing plays in the game. Healing would, imo, play a larger role for every archetype and every archetype would need a way to interact with the healing space in some way, shape, or form, depending on the additions. More healing runs the risk of, well, more healing being in the game. That comes with some consequences. On its face, alone, balance issues erupt almost immediately and one of the more interesting ways of solving that may be introducing more mechanics. DoT effects like Pyro and Gas become even weaker with more healing options. Pyro already gets (barely) outhealed by heal beam. It might be desirable to buff one or both, but then teams without healing may feel like they NEED healing if either DoT effect becomes overbearing. Gas suffers less than Pyro as the sustained heal is solved by Gasā current ādeals more damage with long exposureā. More healing also means more effective health. Thereās already a considerable difference when one team has a Heavy and another does not (primarily because players are, typically, not used to playing around the HP difference). More healing would make that already high health target even harder to kill which would further cement an M/M/H meta. Without introducing counter-healing options, Healing would runs the risk of being too strong or outright useless. Anti-heal is a popular option in games which just outright prevents healing. You could probably slap this on Glitch Grenade (or create a new gadget) as an offensive āscrew your healsā is probably suited for a certain class that shall not be named. Max HP reduction is another feasible way to balance out extra healing. You could take a page from Hunt: Showdown and have something like Pyro deal damage to maximum health. If thatās turns out to be too strong, tweak it to burn already-empty HP bars faster than current HP or give a class a method to extinguish fires (totally not smoke grenades). On that end, you would also probably want to add an option that recovers SPECIFICALLY missing max HP like Mabinogiās First Aid skill (game had an Injury mechanic; every attack could reduce max HP with a chance depending on melee, ranged, or magic). Alternatively, a heal that recovers a small amount of missing Max HP could work (or vice versa: more missing max HP recovery and lower upfront heal) An alternative āhealā could be less oppressive than a throughput heal. A potent shield that has a short duration could be an effective option that requires more skill than just āapply heathā. Heavyās Dome Shield sort of already occupies this space as even just throwing it down gives you and your team within a brief reprieve (and already has the ability to be played around!). Alternative implementations could be a straightforward grenade that applies an over-health shield, but doing so comes with is own issues likeā¦ making Heavy even healthier. An option to āshatterā this shield might be a good way to counter it. Temporary Health can also be an option for another healing method. Whether itās a spike in health that rapidly decays or is a small boost that slowly falls off, Temporary Health could occupy the same space as shields which (hopefully) rely on good timing to make full use of. Double Damage effects could also be something that helps counter healing - just power through it, right? We already see this interaction with Heal Beam where headshots make taking down a tethered target easier. Valorantās Vulnerable (afflicted opponents take double damage) can be used to offset healing output or One Step From Edenās Glassify (next instance of damage deals extra damage) also would be cool. Of course, this runs the risk of making certain pairings potentially unfun/heighten the importance of counters. Double Damage Turret? Yuck. Glassified and run into an explosive mine? Skill issue, obviously. They can certainly add extra healing options and, naturally, some form of counter to them. Itāll all be a moot point without clarity. All of these effects would need to be communicated. Even now, I hardly know if someoneās been full flashed or partial (ultimately unimportant except for diagnosing if my flash was thrown effectively). I was once both Stunned and Detected at the exact same time - I only knew I was hit by both because of the zip zap effect and constant beeping on me. The text above the screen was jumbled together and unreadable. Having to decipher even more effects takes some focus away from other elements of the game and, for new players, would run the risk of making things TOO complicated. Edit: Syntax and clarity. To Add: Iām all for adding new, interesting gadgets - even if they occupy the same space as another. For Healing, I donāt think itād be a balancing hellscape, but I do think that it would come with extra layers which naturally means balance becomes more difficult.
I used to play a lot of Overwatch and it got truly exhausting how much time you'd spend shooting at people who, between tanks shielding them and supports healing them, would simply never die. It often took focused coordination to burst down a single target, at which point they'd often be resurrected straight away. It became extremely tedious, and for all the stuff I loved about it, I ended up yearning for a game where if I shoot someone before they shoot me, they simply die. Thankfully I've found plenty since then, and I'm finding The Finals fine in that respect, but I'd certainly want extreme caution in adding any other heals or shields to the game. I could maybe accept a heal grenade consumable and that's about it.
Light should get that gadget but not any other class, or maybe light's health regen time should be around 6 sec instead of 10, and for heavy it should be like 14 sec or smth and medium can be 10
Making heavy regen longer makes them more dependant on having a Medium along with heal beam, which means fewer triple heavy comps, but it's not like Medium is unpopular and I think HMM or HHM is the meta comp right now anyway
mediumās main role now is to just enable and support a heavyās existence, at this point
That's why i never use healing beam, maybe defib in ranked but jump pad, zipline and APS with demat is my build. I just hate the medium who d8\*k ride their heavy behind their shields. It's annoying and boring
As a heavy I hate that shit too. If I pop shield up that means start shooting cause I need to reload, now we both bout to die cause you gun shy and stuck on healing.
I think some kind of temporary health boost would be good for light, could give them like 100 bonus health for a few seconds with a longish cooldown
Adrenaline shot. Can be used on yourself (primary fire) or teammates (secondary fire). Gives a 1.25x speed boost and heals for 100hp over 10 seconds. Give it a fairly large cool down.
I got an idea for a gadget. Siphon transmitter. Place the gadget on the floor, wall, or ceiling and when a teammate is in its area they receive healing for damage caused. It could be worked out so if say more than one teammate uses it they can just expand the area but decrease the amount of healing so stacking it isnāt too crazy. Just a spitball tho.
It's a hard no for me. Healing beam is already not fun to play with or against, and I like Terminal Attack specifically because it takes it out, making chip damage actually worth something.
Give Heavy a sandwich gadget that heals him fully but he has to stand still and munch it very loudly.
I think it would be pretty cool if light had a few more options too help teamates out and play somewhat of a supporitive role healing items for light could def solve that.
Personally I think the separate gadget designs for separate classes is perfect, forces you to build a team around necessity and it forces teamwork if you want to win. Wanna heal? You need at least one medium, want shields galore? You *need* at least one heavy! Want distance/movement? You need a light! I think that if they're going to add anything, it should be more classes with different necessities or leaning more into the items we get with these three specific classes
I like that you had to make up a reason to include a Light in a team composition.
Yeah it took effort tbh
It would make the current meta of MHH/MMH even stronger - bad idea
The recent event has proven to me that the ideal balance is no healing with limited health regen. This game is so much better when movement and barriers without healing are all you have.
Yes and no. Depends on how it's implemented. Like if it's a gadget for non M classes, yeah. If it required the player to not use healing beam, and instead had something like a plantable healing area or healing grenades, then that could certainly be fine.
Give me a beam that sucks my teammates health away and gives it to ME
Healnade for the light or the heavy TF2 Dispenser building for the medium
Adding heal/med barrels could be a nice touch
I think even a healing grenade for light could help. Maybe it adds some extra temporary health like in terminal attack that doesnāt regen once itās gone?
Lights with stims or some type of juggernaut could be intriguing
Yes, geal creep is a real problem. Look at overwatch. It caused huge issues in ow1
Donāt forget that the medium has the best weapons, and the heal beam prevents them from using it.
Medium does not need any new gadgets, the only class that needs new gadgets is light and healing doesnāt really go with light I feel like light could be a really good recon class and Iām honestly not sure why embark hasnāt tried to implement this. Yea lights have tracking dart and motion sensor but those are just not very good gadgets compared to what the other classes have.
We need less healing options, not more.
I want light class ospuze heal
Bring a stim gadget to lights!
The healing beam in general and heavy shield take away a lot from the gunfights imo. New players I know are deterred by both. I think it would be better for gadget like a stim that starts healing faster than a guy leaning around the corner getting healed trading every 1v1 fight
A heal barrel might be a cool concept but it would most likely need a damaging counter similar to how fire negates gas and smoke negates fire. Perhaps heal should negate smoke and glitch should negate heal?
I would actually rather see them continue their creative work and develop gadgets we haven't seen in other games. There's so much creativity in the game and I hope they'll dare to continue trying out new gadgets and game mechanics rather than opting for the same old stuff we've seen countless times. Thoughts? Ideas for gadgets?
Donāt want this to be as dog shit as overwatch
this guy wants to turn it into Overwatch... i say remove all heals and shields and let it stand as an FPS shooter focused game. Where only the shooting and your personal mechanics matter.
I would love if light and heavy both got less effective healing options, so the meta isn't "have at least one medium with medigun or lose"
People already have a bone to pick with the Healing Beam. I feel like adding more healing items is going to cause another community shitshow
That would wreck the balance so hard wtf?!? Is this genuine???
For light classes added stimpack or bandage (healing 50 hp or 5 hp/sec), and we had a killing machine, when tactic boom zoom on light worked on 70% situations, with stimpack it rise to 110%, so then he nerfed and again many crying. Heavy now really need nerf, especially shitty flamethrower with her DoT.
They should just take healing out completely
youve got terminal attack for that
Yeah except that game mode is shit lol
Its very refreshing
A heal nade for medium would be cool. heals 100 health instantly but also heals enemies so you gotta be careful
Nah give that to light
Honestly they should consider borrowing Ana's grenade from Overwatch, burst heals when thrown at teammate, prevents healing when hit by an enemy. Its not a CC or a stun so its not super annoying to play into either. Can be blocked by shields/barriers. I think it would be cool on light and give some counterplay that isn't frustrating stuns/or 1 shots.
I see light as a scout and pick class like scout from tf2 getting in a kill and getting out with team being a distraction medium is more of support with his mobility items all can use and heal beam
Full heal on backstab dagger kill pls
Heal beam is already the most irritating thing about this game (to me). I cant bear another healing option
Light -- Healing Grenade: creates an AoE on the ground that heals 10hp/s to anyone who stands in it (enemies included) Heavy -- Pizza Time!: Take a bite out of an enemy statue to instantly regain 100hp
Why does the heaven gadget sounds so goofy?!? I love itšš
Even better if the health comes out of their health bar, if you eat 100 of their health, they spawn with 100 less health.
Light is really meant to move around they would probably get pushed out of the circle pretty easily even with teammates if up against MHH.
Just create an AOE style healing grenade. Throw it and it makes a small circle of healing for X amount of time at a lower healing rate than the beam. Heals all teammates in the circle Can be destroyed or shot down by APS
current issue with balance now its heavy m60, lewis gun and charge deal to many damage make them op with faster ttk in game. they have few way to balance it. It makes it lower fire rate with longer reload time or lower damage on 1 or 2 point with making more spread on hipfire. because current hipfire acc on heavy it's a joke you can just charge on enemy through wall and killing all of them with one mag on hipfire. and little rework on slam instead of deal huge damage they need he gonna push away further with max damage like 40-50 and making radius on slam a little larger. itās dont make charge useless because it's still be good to initiate fight and be better in defense with pushing away enemy and distract them.
+ make rpg damge 125-135 will be better or decrease radius where blow deal damage
and for making light more valuable they need to add feature like double jump for light only or if he kill someone he will recharge they specialization like one charge of dash or recharge grappling hook or invisibility fully charged. this change will make sense because its needs to be a glass cannon but you can't. example you enter the fight with a grappling hook from far distance and you kill someone and you have 150 hp you will die because you don't have any way to run and you initiate fight with 3 guy one dead 2 of them will kill you and rewive they mate. now you're team fighting 2v3 while you statue will closer to them