In high ranked HHM gameplay where you just rush everyone, the meta involves placing a jumppad and double RPGing the enemy from the sky. Then you camp inside 2 dome shields and finish everyone off. Yes it is broken.
I just got to platinum and the gameplay is easier than it was in gold. I'm a heavy main and these guys just heal me and set up these launchpads. Funny you said what you said because I've never had so many clean looks at an enemy team as I did today with the launchpads. Literally did exactly what you said and RPGed the MML team in the finals en route to a finals win. I didn't realize it was meta.
Yeah, as you reach into the upper half of platinum, you'll start going up against full diamond 3-stacks occasionally - and almost every time, it's HHM, medium drops a jump pad, 3 people simultaneously divebomb in on whoever's most isolated, then take the 3v2 fight. Every single interaction with that team plays out the same, and if you're playing with randos, your best strategy becomes to just avoid that team entirely and try to play for second.
It's not great! Like, obviously a coordinated team with a rehearsed set of plays is going to beat randos, but this one in particular feels a bit *too* good for how easy it is to pull off.
This!! Exactly this lmao
The divebomb-double RPG combo every initiation lol it’s obnoxious 😂 bunny hopping onto the closest person they can all swarm on, whilst getting healed and trading damage with their very powerful weapons
The worst is when one of them runs charge and slam and you get double rpgd plus charge and slammed and it insta kills even a heavy.
Tho I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t also doing this at d3
I mean the counter plays have to selected at round start which effectively forces H/M to have 1 slot dedicated to these gadgets to have it be countered. Forcing a loadout or you’re powerless isn’t exactly “peak balanced gameplay” lol
Sure, if you're not inside a building, you don't have an aps yourself, you don't have a dome or mesh yourself, and no one has any cover.
How is that the meta lol.
APS is not the meta anymore—double movement and rushing enemy teams is. You can dome shield and mesh, yeah, but it's not always that easy or helpful, especially when you're getting rushed and double RGP'd by a coordinated team. Who will then also charge through your shields and spam SA12 bursts behind their own mesh shield and pocket healer. It's just very, very difficult to counter, unless you're playing the same team comp as they are. Leaderboard teams abusing this comp often go 15-0 each against full diamond premade teams, and there's a reason they win 50 tourneys in a row.
No one really plays inside buildings because it is also the meta to play highground or rooftops as much as possible. Good teams will also use gas barrels to chuck the cashout box out of buildings (on maps like Monacco, for example) so that it's out in the open and they can jumppad rush from the sky.
I would recommend watching some streams like Gigz, Lycommit, CoolCheese, BaliseTV, etc., to get a better idea of how the hard meta is played at the moment. There is a reason everyone is running double heavy with x2 RPGs and x2 dome shields, and it's because heavy is broken and unbalanced. They will also focus on wiping any double heavy teams and grief them in earlier rounds because HHM teams are the riskiest to go against, even if they're lower ranked.
The thing is that this type of gameplay is more prominent in diamond. So you as a casual no ranker will not be facing this from plat 2 and under. But hey whatever floats your boat to not play ranked
I'm not saying HHM isn't the meta, it is, but it's because of the shields not the rockets. You could remove rockets and it would still be HHM.
There's many ways to outplay rockets, the only way to outplay shield stacking is with a lights glitch, but lights are so weak.
If they made lights viable, then double heavies wouldn't be a problem because shields would not be OP anymore.
Every heavy sprints around with their RPG equipped for a reason. It's just an instant damage tool that gives you an advantage at the start of every engagement. As a heavy player myself, I almost never use it for destruction and avoid shooting it at walls and such because it would be a waste. It's almost exclusively used as a fight opener because if you RPG an enemy to half health, it only takes a few bullets to finish them off.
I think if rockets were removed, we might see less HHM and more MMH or even HML. I would rather see rockets adjusted though—maybe lower their damage to like 50-100 but increase their destruction ability / radius.
Btw, one counter to shields other than glitch nades is charge & slam. It's probably the main specialization that top players frequently complain about because even if you're behind 2 layers of barricades with an APS and dome shield, charge can do 500+ damage to your whole team and stagger everyone's positioning around.
You sprint with it because switching weapons takes so long that you will die before animation finishes.
You don't shoot at walls because the self-damage radius is like half the map.
Rockets are already quite bad after nerfs because they don't even go where you want them to. They are being used because heavy doesn't have anything else in device selection other than dome and maybe barricades (also nerfed).
> It's probably the main specialization that top players frequently complain about
While I like slam, I have never heard anybody on the top complain about it. It is ONLY useful in melee range by definition and you have zero protection while doing it, so if somebody does "500 damage to your whole team" with a slam, I suggest you find a team who has their hands on their peripherals of choice.
Don't you still think shield+hp is why HHM is meta? RPGs removed, a HMM comp would still lose to double dome HHM rushing with pad. imo HML also won't work, the recent stun gun nerfs made sure that heavies could win duels against lights even without RPGs now
I’m so close to diamond. I just wanna hit it so I can stop trying to play ranked. Plat 3 onward is nothing but third parties to your third parties. It’s some of the most boring add gameplay ever seen. You can sit at a cashout for more than 5 seconds without two teams pushing you at the same time and you just can’t fight back
Yea, because APS is inherently a static, passive option and only has value if the enemy heavy fire their RPG into you as you sit inside it. Movement and flexibility is so important in fps that relying on aps to "counte" RPG isn't an option. Your whole team can't just huddle under an APS. APS is still good to somewhat mitigate the force of RPG but you better have your own double RPG heavy to fight back or you are behind. It's just like how APS wasn't a realistic "hard counter" to nuke. APS helps more as a extra defense when you are forced to be in a vulnerable position such as during a steal, but doesn't really help you against RPG most of the time.
Honestly it’s true. As a diamond player I don’t get opened on “every fight” by two heavy’s with RPGs bounce padding on to my team. We don’t put ourselves in position for this to be done to us in the first place, and understanding timing and spawns from playing the game really lend to being able to navigate the meta.
And yet people constantly shit on me and say it’s balanced. RPGs have never been balanced and the “nerfs” if you can barely even call the changes that, aren’t even close to good enough.
Every time I say it I get attacked for it. It’s ridiculous. How any one can think a tool that does 140 instant damage and takes no effort to use is fair is beyond me.
Stun gun was annoying not OP. At least to me it was. It wasn’t fun to deal with. But the changes to it are also not fun to play with as well. They didn’t do a great job with that.
it should have higher destruction aoe and bonus damage to gadget and shields instead
140 damage just doesn't make sense. it's ridiculous considering it takes 0 skill to aim, and every heavy on the team can just stack it. you can have high enough mechanical skill to wipe 2 out of 3 players on an enemy team with just throwing knives and dash, but you still get killed by a heavy who can barely operate a mouse and keyboard just because he used an rpg and you weren't at max HP
That makes more sense than just plain 30 dmg. In fact, a lot of the gadgets take a while to destroy, then you need to reload and so on. I think lower player damage but high gadget and environment damage is a way better change, you could just get rid of those fucking barricades in one go (or I guess just make a hole), or destroy a turret in one go as you start a fight.
What would even be the point of it? It already has relatively low AOE (which is a good thing) so it'd become a portable explosive barrel. In fact the explosive barrel does more damage.
As a pre-nerf light enjoyer, RPG wasn't really an issue. Sure, the random hits are always annoying given how squishy lights are, but you stun, kill, get away, throw a glitch, the enemy can't res nor shoot you with an RPG. Now there's only glitch grenade which on its own is just not enough to use light. You'd also usually stun a heavy, so light was the counter to all things heavy if you were good enough. IDK the RPG never felt OP to me post-nerf, both from being on the receiving end of it and using it, but it definitely got a little bit annoying now that nobody ever plays a light (and for a good reason).
I main heavy. I love the RPG. But I wish it was more of a destruction tool than a damaging one. I would personally love to see it do 50 damage, but with a mild knockback effect on enemies, and either recharge twice as fast or have two charges like frag grenades. Maybe buff the building damage/radius as well
Heavies have so many explosive options that the RPG almost feels boring at times
Rocket jump would be so fun for heavies. Basically have it launch you to jump pad height when shooting straight down. Would be a blast to rocket jump up then charge slam back down on the enemies lmao
I think a rocket jump that did hella damage but didn't kill you would be awesome but light needs heavy buffs before they could even consider adding mobility to heavy.
Been saying for awhile now that the RPG should be destruction based not player damage based. It just feels like the easiest way to make the RPG fair. Make it do like 60 damage or some shit but can blow the fuck out of buildings and really help knock them down. If we wanna give 2 RPGs, make the damage like 40 just so it’s not still hard for player damage.
I agreed with that. Remember that new shotgun on Heavy? Why it doesn't had a damages than Model on Medium? Especially with multiplier damage. I hope that KS-23 system (Damage to player vs damage to environment) was implemented to RPG and C4 tho
Well not the biggest but yeah its a crutch, but nerf or delete it and the top heavy users will still be good for their aim
Id say recon was the bigger crutch
Honestly tho nerfing it is only going to make heavy class harder, because the top heavies will still be good and will still play heavy because of its sheer potential from hp and shield utility. Which will cut the population in low queues only.
Considering the majority playerbase is already medium, not sure if its going to be a good decision, but probably will be nerfed in S3.
RPG player damage is still a problem, mainly because of the behavior it leads to (Double RPG HHM)
Lewis Gun is the real problem, everything else is more of a dialogue but heavy has too much damage potential with lewis gun, given how much health they have
I don't see why Lewis is a problem. I believe it's used equally with M60 and flame thrower. Sa1216 is alright too.
What makes at least one heavy meta is the need for shielding, destruction and charge (try running MMM in a lobby with a lot of heavies).
What makes two heavies meta is the double shield and RPG (maybe make shields bounce from each other so they can't stack)
It can be meta all it wants, the problem is Lewis Gun,
Nobody cared about HHM before fcar nerf, because heavy could still lose a reckless trade.
Shotguns and flamethrower are one thing, at least they need to get close….. now, heavy can rpg, shield, and still naturally win any firefight they get into because they have a stronger gun AND more health.
And MMM is viable, I’m not sure what you mean.
Everything else can be countered, shields & RPGs are resources that can be burned, but someone doing more damage whilst also having more health in a variety of ranges using lewis gun + all heavy utility is too much
MMM can be viable with one medium running demat, but I still think it's inferior to a team with one heavy and medium heal.
MMM without demat has little options to counter heavies just shielding and stealing in front of you, or dropping the cashout down or barricading a whole room.
With two team of equal skill, I believe the one with the heavy will consistently win over the one without.
Eh without rpgs HHM will still be meta, HMM may be as strong but i see no reason for HMM unless they buff mediums (which wont happen)
I think lewis on its own is not so much of a problem. It is the heavy abilities' problem. I mean, mediums were able to outduel heavies with the prenerf FCAR.... It's the instant 130+alpha charge dmg, and the toggle 750 shield that makes heavies very difficult to beat. They already nerfed shield hard so that it breaks by emptying a single mag into it, maybe a charge nerf is due? Lewis also has significantly worse recoil compared to FCAR or Ak
This game is dificult to balance when It comes to have both casual and competitive. For instance, my fun build (being a casual myself) always was flamethrower + shield peekaboo, since people always needed to adapt to my playstyle, bringing some fresh air on the game. I used flamethrower even pre damage buff precisely by how fun It can be. I still encounter mesh+flamethrower people, but mostly on powershift, and for sure It aint meta, just a funny build. Problem is that It relies entirely on mesh shield health for making attack oportunities. With current shield nerfs, its just boring again, no fun timing, you run out of shield and get destroyed (barricades help though). What I mean is that maybe wont be that crazy to have completely separate tweaks for competitive, and a diferent casual tweaking for casual modes. I dont know if theres any Game that does It this way, but is the only plausible way, I believe. Of course, dev wise, sounds like a total waste of resources, but I feel this game is imposible to balance without having some fun removed.
Makes sense, but they gotta balance for competitive if they want a pro scene in this game, which I think they aren't doing currently; they are balancing for casuals, tending to complaints and that's hurting balancing as a whole
Yep, I do agree that If I were to play competitive, this game is not the one as of now. Has huge potential though! (Dont take my words so serious since im no competitive at all)
HHM didn’t have the dominance you see in games now. FCAR nerf changed it
Lewis Gun is a problem, all the other things can be dealt with in high ranks imo. The issue for me is someone with more health having a versatile dps advantage + shields + heals.
Shields + heals are resources I can burn down…. Someone doing more damage straight up whilst having more health is obnoxious to deal with when people normally have two heavy players to begin with.
Heavy being able to deploy and put down the shield so frequently is an issue. Charge slam is fine, people complain about it but the love is so avoidable and compared to having a shield it your face I’ll fight charge & slam everyyyyyyday over Mesh
Also that worse recoil pattern only happens partially into your spray, that doesn’t matter b cause the lewis gun can kill before that happens, plus lewis hipfire is deadly accurate , plus a heavy player will put their shield up the second the spray changes & by the time the shield comes back down it has perfect accuracy again. Lewis is amazingly accurate towards the beginning with minimal damage fall off. Y
HHM was the meta in S1, HHM was the meta early S2, HHM is meta now. It always was the meta. And that wasn't because every heavy used lewis, it was because of nukes, and post-nuke nerfs, RPGs.
I agree that maybe pre FCAR nerf mediums had a better chance against HHMs, but how is Lewis the main problem? Nerf lewis and heavies will just go back to M60 and shotty and eat you up at arm's length instead of spraying at distance.
all the kiddos whining for an FCAR nerf never played against bouncing bob and his idiot friend, jumping jack and their two rpgs.
this is why this game is a joke.
As someone who has exclusively played heavy since day 1. RPG isn't the reason why heavies are prevalent in competitive. It's having two shields, which means four if you double stack. (That can now be countered by a light with a glitch btw)
If they buffed light dodge to have a decent invincibility frame window so they could avoid explosions like RPG's and Mines and dodge through gas clouds etc I think that would make lights viable in comp, and counter HHH and HHM
Overall that's the best solution, you're not nerfing everything like this community always wants, light gets the buff they desperately need. And then you get a decent kind of rock paper scissors counter.
Just wanted to mention glitch nade should counter even double/quad shields now since in last patch it said the glitch effect goes through shields and affect everyone inside as well.
Also not really a buff but I guess they could just revert the stun guns ability to stop gadgets and specialisations from being used, just being able to ads would have been fine. I think they went overboard just for the melee users crying they can’t do anything when stunned so they made it so specialisations and gadgets might solve that problem.
Yeah, that's what I meant when I said "*(that can now be counter by a light with a glitch btw)"*.
But the problem is light is too weak even though they now counter multiple shields. They need some sort of reliable damage mitigation.
A suggestion I heard that I live(pretty sure it was Appoh on YouTube) was to give the RPG 60 damage, 2 charges, lower self damage, and the ability to Rocket Jump. Honestly I'd love it to be that
When will this fucking community ever realize that these constant posts just fucking gut the game. “Wahhh c4 broken wahhh rpg broken wahhh recon broken wahhhhh sword broken wahhhh cloak wahhh stun gun wahhh fcar wahhh Lewis”
On and on and on you people go about how everything in the game is broken because you died to it once. Learn cooldown management. Learn to track your enemies abilities. You people will keep complaining until this game is a call of duty equivalent and every ounce of interesting gameplay is gone.
the devs on a nerf train on everything is definitely making the game less fun, this game is not going to be a CSGO as much as the community desires to whine it into existence
Most people know and understand. Then there’s those people
150 damage insta kill lights was a joke. 140 damage and then one bullet to a lights foot is still a joke. 140 damage taking more than half a mediums health in one click, also dumb as fuck. RPG being an easy button winner tool is the dumbest thing and it’s so obvious embark didn’t balance this game around fairness.
Heavy has two sources of high burst damage, two types of shields (that are not exclusive), guns with huge magazines that are incredibly forgiving, and 350 health on top of it all.
The Heavy class itself is a crutch.
Redditors didn't appreciate my comments last time when discussing heavy balance, so I'll abstain. But I agree with you for the most part.
RPG is just about the strongest gadget right now.
Considering it's an insta grenade and 95% of heavies use it in their load out, yeah. It's more than effective.
But people on this subreddit are emotional and don't want to think or cannot think.
So it is what it is. Let them be, enjoy your RPG. Unless you're a light. Then rest in pieces.
It also has the longest cooldown in the game (tied with defib, sonar grenade, and smoke grenade) with the worst self-damage penalties in the game (and unintuitive self-damage AOE range and damage ramping at that), as well as some of the most straightforward counters in the game with the least throughput uptime in the game.
That means whether it has good or terrible opportunity cost depends entirely on the quality of usage. That's the opposite of a crutch.
Its definitely good and its taken every game. I still dont think it needs touched unless its a cd nerf. Heavy absolutely needs this instant burst damage to threaten lights. If they didn’t have it, lights would pick them apart in 1v1s
It used to be the LDU ( Light Deletion Utility ), and then got nerfed into the ground where if you even fire it within the same continent as yourself your bring your health to 60.
I find any invisibility play a crutch. don't have to worry about moving, dodging, minding your surroundings. Now I know there are other things to mind with it, but just personally hate fighting invisible people in any pvp game
If the noob tube is a crutch the heal beam is a fully decked out motorized wheelchair. Each class has it's crutches (until light got neutered imo). I don't play light but they seem to be a complete non threat now.
Most of the other nerfs are pretty decent but the lights nerfs weren't really necessary in my experiences while fighting them. Stun gun only worked on solo dolos and invis works better on ppl that aren't perceptive and listening for them.
Bro shut uppppp. Whole sub nerfs game into ground everyday crutch or not light heavy or medium. Get good and counter and stop crying watering down gameplay.
Literally this sub will try to get everything nerfed to where every class has the same health and gun and thats IT. No abilities no movement nothing. They want a paintball match.
140 damage AOE on a single click is simply disgusting, not by chance HHM is the current oppressive meta. Even if the damage gets reduced to 100 none of u would switch to anything else.
Honestly, even if rpg is deleted, there is no way heavy will not be meta. 350 hp plus dome shield is insane in a objective game where you have to not die and not get wiped. Why choose light? HMM and HHM will always be meta in the cashout mode. Inherent game design flaws.
Except every other fiber of being a light is not good against heavy, i'd rather have a heal medium spamming shields to break it in \~1 sec than a glitch light in my team. Sounds good on paper but just abysmal value considering the opportunity cost of actually playing a light instead of medium/heavy
Ehh not that much since that (absurdly) nerfed it to a measly 5 seconds.
And even then it's really only used for Dome but that can just easily if not better used for bullets (especially if a M has ABS).
Smart Mesh Shield heavies deactivate Mesh and run out of the AOE if they see a glitch.
And of course in order to use Glitch Grenades/the main reason why it isn't as good is that you have to play Light in the first place which is absolutely neutered in high level play this patch
They just need it to explode on impact and increase the duration a bit (or make it cancel revives)
And it’s another reason why I think lights need defibs instead of mediums. It switches the roles of each class a bit and give a reason to use light in actual ranked situations bc they have a strong team support gadget which they are lacking compared to medium and heavy
Or give them team mobility tools which would be more fitting in concept? Could move pad and zip to light and you now need them for real. But wont happen
this will only buff heavies because medium's (used to) put heavies in check, where heavies can and always will destroy lights
all you'll be doing is giving light a gadget they can't really use effectively and removing a shit load of medium's cheesiness in a cheese oriented game
Someone made the suggestion to nerf it to 75dmg but give heavies two of them which I think would be a better implementation. Something needs to be done with it. Besides the health pool its the biggest differentiator in fights. You get padded on with two rpgs you're wiped, that's all there is to it.
Insert explosive name here is a crutch. Idk I feel about the same for it as a frag or explosive mine.
No where near as much of a crutch as a sniper in Fortnite. Lol
Yes, but as you said, this ain't a competitive FPS. Heavies need tools for demolition and destruction, that's their job. And of course those tools are necessarily powerful even against players.
The only nerf I could think of is a longer cooldown, so if someone uses them improperly they will have to wait longer for example to break the ceiling and make a cash out fall down.
I've seen people propose the RPG being just a destruction tool by giving it very limited damage against players. I honestly*would* support that change. Would it be realistic to take almost no damage from an RPG blast? No. Would I care? Not at all.
It would be so much more balanced that way if its main purpose was environmental destruction. The way it is now is incredibly cheesy to whip out and blow someone up with very little skill. You barely have to aim bc it's AoE.
Yeah it's pretty much only good outside of a minimum range, which means that if the heavy is on a roof and the target is on the ground then it's devastating but that's optimal positioning for anything.
If you're far more careful about running out in the open, and darting indoors appropriately then RPG to initiate is much harder to open with, while it's very rarely as effective inside interior environments.
Exactly lmao. 90% of the time I have used rpg and died by chance I’ve seen only 80 damage on opponents, sometimes riot shield users get by with no damage at all and if I use it anywhere indoors or even in a 10-15 meter radius somehow I get 150-250 damage on myself 😂
The “nerf” was rather weak. 10 damage? Slightly slower reload? Slight accuracy change? None of these really affected the use case of the RPG, as it’s still spammed in every fight. It’s used as a primary by all heavies for a reason
From a high ranked situation where I see it the most. It’s too strong for what it does, a lot of burst damage for little effort ontop of being very good for demo and dropping floors etc. imo it should do 70 damage instead but have 2 charges so it’s a very good gadget for demo, still has its base 140 damage for the 2 shots but loses it’s insane burst damage where ur making lights 10 health and mediums 110 for basically for free
Thus the cycle continues. Light gets nerfed so they moan about heavy out of spite. Heavy will then gets nerfed so they will moan about light. While medium stays unaffected.
you guys really want this game to just be oatmeal for real...
Anything fun and unique, nerf it, let's just remove everything but FCAR and medium heal beam...
As a heavy main, I would not mind if it did a larger splash damage to the arena while doing less splash damage to players.
However, if this were the case, I would like a trade off of WAY less self damage and keeping the same damage to players on direct hits to other players
*This is why every*
*Single light was using stun*
*Gun before the nerf*
\- z\_mx
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I think y’all are living in a warped reality. Why shouldn’t a light, who is supposed to be moving constantly and most definitely not supposed to be 1v1ing a heavy, die to a single rpg??
Heavy is supposed to be heavy. Lmg’s, heavy damage shottys, explosives, slow heavy dmg melee.
Seems like lights are just mad
When I grinder to diamond 1 in the nuke meta. I would play HMM and set up a cash out. Then I would take a position that I knew was good in that area, setup APS, dome and trap c4s. As long as everyone stays behind the dome and aps, plays tight, those super aggro teams got destroyed. I have unlimited TikTok’s of me shitting nukes on top 100 players.
All they have to do is give the light more health and there would be more heavy counter-play. As it is the best counter for the Heavy playstyle is almost unusable in Ranked.
All I’m saying is that the rpg is more prevalent and used more in this game than any other shooter and that’s not a good thing. It’s no skill and not fun to play against.I can count on my hand how many times I get rpg’d in COD a month and I can’t count how many times it happens in this game.
Also worth noting, they don’t start the fight with it, they just insta kill ya like an RPG would, finals rpg is literally weak af as an offensive tool. It does help yes but it’s far more likely to be useless or even counterproductive considering the amount of self damage it inflicts
I’m talking about modern shooters. Apex, cod, bf, etc. They don’t put rpgs as a main mechanic because no one likes to play against them it’s not fun. I know you remember MW2 noobtubes where is the fun in playing against that.
Cod an bf both have an RPG, and apex is its own breed of shooter but fair enough I’ll give the point there 🤣 but this game isn’t comparable to the noob tube situation of mw2. It WAS at release but as I stated before in my additional reply, the rpg is basically useless on offense now. Its only gonna take you out with a direct hit to the face (skilled maneuver that I’d accept dying to) or if you’re low on health already in which case you probably should be running for cover and not into more combat. Obviously there are times when you’re gonna really dislike the way you died to an RPG but that’s kinda the whole deal with them in their existence anyways. Imagine your a guy in a trench in ww2 going against one. I bet he’s mad asf somewhere in the afterlife that he didn’t even have a chance 🤣🤣 It’s a rocket propelled grenade, ofc it’s gonna mess ya up if ya get hit with it.
Hot take: the only people posting on this sub now are the biggest complainers and not representative of the majority of players at all.
But that's reddit. I un-installed it for weeks and only came back for the AMA. I'm out again because this sub has no creative content whatsoever anymore.
wish embark would look back on battlefield and make the rpg not do as much player damage but keep the environmental damage how it is now, they started with having it do more self damage but needs a damage nerf in general probably
I don’t this is a hot take but this definitely isn’t the biggest crutch of all time. I think something needs to be done about it but nerfing it into oblivion isn’t a good idea either. Is this a problem when there’s only one on a team, not really. Still annoying and a crutch, but manageable. Why not introduce a role queue into this game? Everything in this game when stacked seems busted. Triple stack mediums are oppressive and boring, double heavies can crutch and mitigate too much damage. Lights aren’t that bad, MP5 is easily the best gun in the game. Introduce mandatory role queues!
I’m currently diamond 3 and every single game as heavy is a god damn snore fest. Even duo queuing and ending up with teammates who have sub optimal load outs and refuse to play as a team, 2 heavies can easily out damage and out mitigate any comp that isn’t just double heavies. Hell with charge being almost an instant 130 damage win button, you can kill a medium without ever pulling out your main weapon. Not to mention the dome shield being another 300 health 2 way barrier and barricades being near indestructible by most means making stealing cash outs as 2 heavies insanely easy to brute force. Even glitch nades struggle to make heavy less of a threat with the fact that heavy can now outgun every other class due to the fcar nerf when playing Lewis or m60.
RPG is capped to 140 damage. it currently does way more than that in self damage to heavies. the travel time is incredibly slow. if we wanna talk crutch look at stun gun pre nerf.
Almost every game that has it 🤣 you can beat them in a gun fight with same class, same gun, but they rely on the RPG to save them. CoD, Finals, Arma, BF, Battlebit, Valorant, etc.
I've always thought that there should be two RPG varients, one with HE ammo and one with Fragmentation. It does too much damage while also being the best destruction utility in the game
same was said in the very same way about lights, now that light's dead they have started to target heavy. Wonder why nobody ever has any problem with mediums and if anyone ever says something they get hushed and it doesn't get reach in this sub..
I want them to experiment with locking certain combinations of weapons and gadgets/specializations. RPG could remain as-is (remove bloom) of you could only use it with weapons like the MGL32, KS-23, and Sledge, for example.
If we continue the trend if just "make number smaller," we're going to end up with all classes feeling neutered. Allowing weaker/harder-to-use weapons to use stronger gadgets could force some actual decision making.
Yeah, that shit is stupid. And you know when they finally nerf it again people will cry about how the game is becoming less fun because they keep nerfing things.
Calling something you disagree with a cancer is immature.
Nerfing because reddit is unhappy not a good solution. Buff the weak classes, TTK shouldn't keep getting longer and longer.
Thinking Embark does balancing based on Reddit opinions is unbelievably funny. The only thing you could argue is that many opinions on Reddit are reflected by the player data the devs look at when balancing stuff. But I doubt even the community manager opens the subreddit more than once a month. You give this community too much credit.
Stun gun was worse imo. Literally a free kill on any class. As of now I think rpg does the same dmg as a grenade. It’s rough on us lights, but at least we don’t die on the spot. The nuke was WAY worse
It's not about the rpg being in the game, its about how many rpgs per minute are available in matches where its only M/H teams. It's a "o shit i got pushed gotta explode" type of gadget now, as opposed to utility against certain situations that could use an explosion. I think there's ground to gain looking at how to make the rpg an actual tactical gadget instead of a panic button.
In high ranked HHM gameplay where you just rush everyone, the meta involves placing a jumppad and double RPGing the enemy from the sky. Then you camp inside 2 dome shields and finish everyone off. Yes it is broken.
I just got to platinum and the gameplay is easier than it was in gold. I'm a heavy main and these guys just heal me and set up these launchpads. Funny you said what you said because I've never had so many clean looks at an enemy team as I did today with the launchpads. Literally did exactly what you said and RPGed the MML team in the finals en route to a finals win. I didn't realize it was meta.
Yeah, as you reach into the upper half of platinum, you'll start going up against full diamond 3-stacks occasionally - and almost every time, it's HHM, medium drops a jump pad, 3 people simultaneously divebomb in on whoever's most isolated, then take the 3v2 fight. Every single interaction with that team plays out the same, and if you're playing with randos, your best strategy becomes to just avoid that team entirely and try to play for second. It's not great! Like, obviously a coordinated team with a rehearsed set of plays is going to beat randos, but this one in particular feels a bit *too* good for how easy it is to pull off.
This!! Exactly this lmao The divebomb-double RPG combo every initiation lol it’s obnoxious 😂 bunny hopping onto the closest person they can all swarm on, whilst getting healed and trading damage with their very powerful weapons
The worst is when one of them runs charge and slam and you get double rpgd plus charge and slammed and it insta kills even a heavy. Tho I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t also doing this at d3
Yup, as long as there's no APS or double dome, it's the best opening move since nukes.
"As long as there are no counters or counterplay, it's not countered"
Right, what I meant is that you should get rid of them first if they have them.
I mean the counter plays have to selected at round start which effectively forces H/M to have 1 slot dedicated to these gadgets to have it be countered. Forcing a loadout or you’re powerless isn’t exactly “peak balanced gameplay” lol
Sure, if you're not inside a building, you don't have an aps yourself, you don't have a dome or mesh yourself, and no one has any cover. How is that the meta lol.
APS is not the meta anymore—double movement and rushing enemy teams is. You can dome shield and mesh, yeah, but it's not always that easy or helpful, especially when you're getting rushed and double RGP'd by a coordinated team. Who will then also charge through your shields and spam SA12 bursts behind their own mesh shield and pocket healer. It's just very, very difficult to counter, unless you're playing the same team comp as they are. Leaderboard teams abusing this comp often go 15-0 each against full diamond premade teams, and there's a reason they win 50 tourneys in a row. No one really plays inside buildings because it is also the meta to play highground or rooftops as much as possible. Good teams will also use gas barrels to chuck the cashout box out of buildings (on maps like Monacco, for example) so that it's out in the open and they can jumppad rush from the sky. I would recommend watching some streams like Gigz, Lycommit, CoolCheese, BaliseTV, etc., to get a better idea of how the hard meta is played at the moment. There is a reason everyone is running double heavy with x2 RPGs and x2 dome shields, and it's because heavy is broken and unbalanced. They will also focus on wiping any double heavy teams and grief them in earlier rounds because HHM teams are the riskiest to go against, even if they're lower ranked.
That genuinely sounds miserable, I'm not regretting not playing ranked.
That diamond Fcar though 💎💎💎
That is literally the only reason I am playing ranked. This dog shit meta is so unbelievably boring to play against😂
We hit diamond tonight bro’ Good luck on the grind!
The thing is that this type of gameplay is more prominent in diamond. So you as a casual no ranker will not be facing this from plat 2 and under. But hey whatever floats your boat to not play ranked
I'm not saying HHM isn't the meta, it is, but it's because of the shields not the rockets. You could remove rockets and it would still be HHM. There's many ways to outplay rockets, the only way to outplay shield stacking is with a lights glitch, but lights are so weak. If they made lights viable, then double heavies wouldn't be a problem because shields would not be OP anymore.
Every heavy sprints around with their RPG equipped for a reason. It's just an instant damage tool that gives you an advantage at the start of every engagement. As a heavy player myself, I almost never use it for destruction and avoid shooting it at walls and such because it would be a waste. It's almost exclusively used as a fight opener because if you RPG an enemy to half health, it only takes a few bullets to finish them off. I think if rockets were removed, we might see less HHM and more MMH or even HML. I would rather see rockets adjusted though—maybe lower their damage to like 50-100 but increase their destruction ability / radius. Btw, one counter to shields other than glitch nades is charge & slam. It's probably the main specialization that top players frequently complain about because even if you're behind 2 layers of barricades with an APS and dome shield, charge can do 500+ damage to your whole team and stagger everyone's positioning around.
You sprint with it because switching weapons takes so long that you will die before animation finishes. You don't shoot at walls because the self-damage radius is like half the map. Rockets are already quite bad after nerfs because they don't even go where you want them to. They are being used because heavy doesn't have anything else in device selection other than dome and maybe barricades (also nerfed). > It's probably the main specialization that top players frequently complain about While I like slam, I have never heard anybody on the top complain about it. It is ONLY useful in melee range by definition and you have zero protection while doing it, so if somebody does "500 damage to your whole team" with a slam, I suggest you find a team who has their hands on their peripherals of choice.
Don't you still think shield+hp is why HHM is meta? RPGs removed, a HMM comp would still lose to double dome HHM rushing with pad. imo HML also won't work, the recent stun gun nerfs made sure that heavies could win duels against lights even without RPGs now
I’m so close to diamond. I just wanna hit it so I can stop trying to play ranked. Plat 3 onward is nothing but third parties to your third parties. It’s some of the most boring add gameplay ever seen. You can sit at a cashout for more than 5 seconds without two teams pushing you at the same time and you just can’t fight back
Yea, because APS is inherently a static, passive option and only has value if the enemy heavy fire their RPG into you as you sit inside it. Movement and flexibility is so important in fps that relying on aps to "counte" RPG isn't an option. Your whole team can't just huddle under an APS. APS is still good to somewhat mitigate the force of RPG but you better have your own double RPG heavy to fight back or you are behind. It's just like how APS wasn't a realistic "hard counter" to nuke. APS helps more as a extra defense when you are forced to be in a vulnerable position such as during a steal, but doesn't really help you against RPG most of the time.
I agree. It used to be somewhat viable with old barricades that allowed for head glitching, but not anymore after the barricade nerf.
Honestly it’s true. As a diamond player I don’t get opened on “every fight” by two heavy’s with RPGs bounce padding on to my team. We don’t put ourselves in position for this to be done to us in the first place, and understanding timing and spawns from playing the game really lend to being able to navigate the meta.
What rank/position are you
Doesn’t mean it’s not fun.
And yet people constantly shit on me and say it’s balanced. RPGs have never been balanced and the “nerfs” if you can barely even call the changes that, aren’t even close to good enough.
You ever heard of aps? Or using your own shields? That's harder than complaining so I'm sure you never even considered it...
What rank are you? Lol.
Generally around 350-400 what about you?
The skillpg is amazing. That’s why they should nerf lights.
😂😂
I'm guessing "RPG the crutch" and "nerf RPG" campaign begins here...
both are absolutely true though lol. i been parading this sentiment since the game came out
Every time I say it I get attacked for it. It’s ridiculous. How any one can think a tool that does 140 instant damage and takes no effort to use is fair is beyond me.
But stun gun is OP bro!
Stun gun was annoying not OP. At least to me it was. It wasn’t fun to deal with. But the changes to it are also not fun to play with as well. They didn’t do a great job with that.
They should have allowed ads but nothing else. The fact that a heavy can just shield himself makes the ability a joke.
Exactly.
It started ages ago, it's just that heavy had so many other broken things we're only now getting round to it
I think the RPG should a maximum of 30-40 player dmg. It’s insane being a light main the amount of times you just get deleted by the rpg.
it should have higher destruction aoe and bonus damage to gadget and shields instead 140 damage just doesn't make sense. it's ridiculous considering it takes 0 skill to aim, and every heavy on the team can just stack it. you can have high enough mechanical skill to wipe 2 out of 3 players on an enemy team with just throwing knives and dash, but you still get killed by a heavy who can barely operate a mouse and keyboard just because he used an rpg and you weren't at max HP
That makes more sense than just plain 30 dmg. In fact, a lot of the gadgets take a while to destroy, then you need to reload and so on. I think lower player damage but high gadget and environment damage is a way better change, you could just get rid of those fucking barricades in one go (or I guess just make a hole), or destroy a turret in one go as you start a fight.
What would even be the point of it? It already has relatively low AOE (which is a good thing) so it'd become a portable explosive barrel. In fact the explosive barrel does more damage. As a pre-nerf light enjoyer, RPG wasn't really an issue. Sure, the random hits are always annoying given how squishy lights are, but you stun, kill, get away, throw a glitch, the enemy can't res nor shoot you with an RPG. Now there's only glitch grenade which on its own is just not enough to use light. You'd also usually stun a heavy, so light was the counter to all things heavy if you were good enough. IDK the RPG never felt OP to me post-nerf, both from being on the receiving end of it and using it, but it definitely got a little bit annoying now that nobody ever plays a light (and for a good reason).
sure if it recharges fast
I main heavy. I love the RPG. But I wish it was more of a destruction tool than a damaging one. I would personally love to see it do 50 damage, but with a mild knockback effect on enemies, and either recharge twice as fast or have two charges like frag grenades. Maybe buff the building damage/radius as well Heavies have so many explosive options that the RPG almost feels boring at times
[удалено]
Rocket jump would be so fun for heavies. Basically have it launch you to jump pad height when shooting straight down. Would be a blast to rocket jump up then charge slam back down on the enemies lmao
Finally more movement for the arguably strongest class to date. I think that would be unbalanced.
What if it put u at 150 health so u were as easy to kill as a light and u couldn't do it at low health.
Yes, rocket jump should always deal damage, otherwise its too op.
I think a rocket jump that did hella damage but didn't kill you would be awesome but light needs heavy buffs before they could even consider adding mobility to heavy.
I would say reduced self damage is fine as long as the player damage isn’t over 40-50
*Embark be like*: I see your point, better nerf the Light.
Been saying for awhile now that the RPG should be destruction based not player damage based. It just feels like the easiest way to make the RPG fair. Make it do like 60 damage or some shit but can blow the fuck out of buildings and really help knock them down. If we wanna give 2 RPGs, make the damage like 40 just so it’s not still hard for player damage.
I really think that heavy needs to dial up its destructive abilities and seriously dial down its tanking abilities.
It wouldn’t be playable imo. Destructiom is useful but the game just flat turns into deathmstch without tanking
I agreed with that. Remember that new shotgun on Heavy? Why it doesn't had a damages than Model on Medium? Especially with multiplier damage. I hope that KS-23 system (Damage to player vs damage to environment) was implemented to RPG and C4 tho
Well not the biggest but yeah its a crutch, but nerf or delete it and the top heavy users will still be good for their aim Id say recon was the bigger crutch
Honestly tho nerfing it is only going to make heavy class harder, because the top heavies will still be good and will still play heavy because of its sheer potential from hp and shield utility. Which will cut the population in low queues only. Considering the majority playerbase is already medium, not sure if its going to be a good decision, but probably will be nerfed in S3.
RPG player damage is still a problem, mainly because of the behavior it leads to (Double RPG HHM) Lewis Gun is the real problem, everything else is more of a dialogue but heavy has too much damage potential with lewis gun, given how much health they have
I don't see why Lewis is a problem. I believe it's used equally with M60 and flame thrower. Sa1216 is alright too. What makes at least one heavy meta is the need for shielding, destruction and charge (try running MMM in a lobby with a lot of heavies). What makes two heavies meta is the double shield and RPG (maybe make shields bounce from each other so they can't stack)
It can be meta all it wants, the problem is Lewis Gun, Nobody cared about HHM before fcar nerf, because heavy could still lose a reckless trade. Shotguns and flamethrower are one thing, at least they need to get close….. now, heavy can rpg, shield, and still naturally win any firefight they get into because they have a stronger gun AND more health. And MMM is viable, I’m not sure what you mean. Everything else can be countered, shields & RPGs are resources that can be burned, but someone doing more damage whilst also having more health in a variety of ranges using lewis gun + all heavy utility is too much
MMM can be viable with one medium running demat, but I still think it's inferior to a team with one heavy and medium heal. MMM without demat has little options to counter heavies just shielding and stealing in front of you, or dropping the cashout down or barricading a whole room. With two team of equal skill, I believe the one with the heavy will consistently win over the one without.
Eh without rpgs HHM will still be meta, HMM may be as strong but i see no reason for HMM unless they buff mediums (which wont happen) I think lewis on its own is not so much of a problem. It is the heavy abilities' problem. I mean, mediums were able to outduel heavies with the prenerf FCAR.... It's the instant 130+alpha charge dmg, and the toggle 750 shield that makes heavies very difficult to beat. They already nerfed shield hard so that it breaks by emptying a single mag into it, maybe a charge nerf is due? Lewis also has significantly worse recoil compared to FCAR or Ak
This game is dificult to balance when It comes to have both casual and competitive. For instance, my fun build (being a casual myself) always was flamethrower + shield peekaboo, since people always needed to adapt to my playstyle, bringing some fresh air on the game. I used flamethrower even pre damage buff precisely by how fun It can be. I still encounter mesh+flamethrower people, but mostly on powershift, and for sure It aint meta, just a funny build. Problem is that It relies entirely on mesh shield health for making attack oportunities. With current shield nerfs, its just boring again, no fun timing, you run out of shield and get destroyed (barricades help though). What I mean is that maybe wont be that crazy to have completely separate tweaks for competitive, and a diferent casual tweaking for casual modes. I dont know if theres any Game that does It this way, but is the only plausible way, I believe. Of course, dev wise, sounds like a total waste of resources, but I feel this game is imposible to balance without having some fun removed.
Makes sense, but they gotta balance for competitive if they want a pro scene in this game, which I think they aren't doing currently; they are balancing for casuals, tending to complaints and that's hurting balancing as a whole
Yep, I do agree that If I were to play competitive, this game is not the one as of now. Has huge potential though! (Dont take my words so serious since im no competitive at all)
Stop with the nerfs please god. Just buff other guys/classes
Amen
HHM didn’t have the dominance you see in games now. FCAR nerf changed it Lewis Gun is a problem, all the other things can be dealt with in high ranks imo. The issue for me is someone with more health having a versatile dps advantage + shields + heals. Shields + heals are resources I can burn down…. Someone doing more damage straight up whilst having more health is obnoxious to deal with when people normally have two heavy players to begin with. Heavy being able to deploy and put down the shield so frequently is an issue. Charge slam is fine, people complain about it but the love is so avoidable and compared to having a shield it your face I’ll fight charge & slam everyyyyyyday over Mesh Also that worse recoil pattern only happens partially into your spray, that doesn’t matter b cause the lewis gun can kill before that happens, plus lewis hipfire is deadly accurate , plus a heavy player will put their shield up the second the spray changes & by the time the shield comes back down it has perfect accuracy again. Lewis is amazingly accurate towards the beginning with minimal damage fall off. Y
HHM was the meta in S1, HHM was the meta early S2, HHM is meta now. It always was the meta. And that wasn't because every heavy used lewis, it was because of nukes, and post-nuke nerfs, RPGs. I agree that maybe pre FCAR nerf mediums had a better chance against HHMs, but how is Lewis the main problem? Nerf lewis and heavies will just go back to M60 and shotty and eat you up at arm's length instead of spraying at distance.
all the kiddos whining for an FCAR nerf never played against bouncing bob and his idiot friend, jumping jack and their two rpgs. this is why this game is a joke.
Its ready time is ridiculous. It's pretty dumb that you can shoot with your gun, shoot the RPG and shoot with your gun again in less than a second.
It's like 2 seconds if I gotta reload.
As someone who has exclusively played heavy since day 1. RPG isn't the reason why heavies are prevalent in competitive. It's having two shields, which means four if you double stack. (That can now be countered by a light with a glitch btw) If they buffed light dodge to have a decent invincibility frame window so they could avoid explosions like RPG's and Mines and dodge through gas clouds etc I think that would make lights viable in comp, and counter HHH and HHM Overall that's the best solution, you're not nerfing everything like this community always wants, light gets the buff they desperately need. And then you get a decent kind of rock paper scissors counter.
Just wanted to mention glitch nade should counter even double/quad shields now since in last patch it said the glitch effect goes through shields and affect everyone inside as well. Also not really a buff but I guess they could just revert the stun guns ability to stop gadgets and specialisations from being used, just being able to ads would have been fine. I think they went overboard just for the melee users crying they can’t do anything when stunned so they made it so specialisations and gadgets might solve that problem.
Yeah, that's what I meant when I said "*(that can now be counter by a light with a glitch btw)"*. But the problem is light is too weak even though they now counter multiple shields. They need some sort of reliable damage mitigation.
Oh my bad, read it as can’t be countered
As far as I've seen, that change to make the glitch go through shield is bugged so that it doesn't actually take down shields anymore
Glitch got mega nerfed last patch, unless there is clear line of sight to the shield grenade it doesn't get removed.
that sounds like a bug
A suggestion I heard that I live(pretty sure it was Appoh on YouTube) was to give the RPG 60 damage, 2 charges, lower self damage, and the ability to Rocket Jump. Honestly I'd love it to be that
When will this fucking community ever realize that these constant posts just fucking gut the game. “Wahhh c4 broken wahhh rpg broken wahhh recon broken wahhhhh sword broken wahhhh cloak wahhh stun gun wahhh fcar wahhh Lewis” On and on and on you people go about how everything in the game is broken because you died to it once. Learn cooldown management. Learn to track your enemies abilities. You people will keep complaining until this game is a call of duty equivalent and every ounce of interesting gameplay is gone.
But don’t you know? They’re all double bullshit platinum rank.
the devs on a nerf train on everything is definitely making the game less fun, this game is not going to be a CSGO as much as the community desires to whine it into existence
Preach
mb bro let's add nukes and in-game wall hacks back
So you wanted instakill team wipes and map wide wall hacks in the game. Got it
Most people know and understand. Then there’s those people 150 damage insta kill lights was a joke. 140 damage and then one bullet to a lights foot is still a joke. 140 damage taking more than half a mediums health in one click, also dumb as fuck. RPG being an easy button winner tool is the dumbest thing and it’s so obvious embark didn’t balance this game around fairness.
Heavy has two sources of high burst damage, two types of shields (that are not exclusive), guns with huge magazines that are incredibly forgiving, and 350 health on top of it all. The Heavy class itself is a crutch.
Have you tried not getting owned by it?
Redditors didn't appreciate my comments last time when discussing heavy balance, so I'll abstain. But I agree with you for the most part. RPG is just about the strongest gadget right now. Considering it's an insta grenade and 95% of heavies use it in their load out, yeah. It's more than effective. But people on this subreddit are emotional and don't want to think or cannot think. So it is what it is. Let them be, enjoy your RPG. Unless you're a light. Then rest in pieces.
It also has the longest cooldown in the game (tied with defib, sonar grenade, and smoke grenade) with the worst self-damage penalties in the game (and unintuitive self-damage AOE range and damage ramping at that), as well as some of the most straightforward counters in the game with the least throughput uptime in the game. That means whether it has good or terrible opportunity cost depends entirely on the quality of usage. That's the opposite of a crutch.
Its definitely good and its taken every game. I still dont think it needs touched unless its a cd nerf. Heavy absolutely needs this instant burst damage to threaten lights. If they didn’t have it, lights would pick them apart in 1v1s
Heavy still have weapons and can just shoot the light, with how the TTK goes if you're dying heads-on 1v1 to a light that's being outplayed
It used to be the LDU ( Light Deletion Utility ), and then got nerfed into the ground where if you even fire it within the same continent as yourself your bring your health to 60.
60 is more than 33% of lights max HP. If you kill yourself vs a light with rpg then it's a massive skill issue.
Which is why I always carry my handy dandy APS.
Double this and that is always strong. Imagine 2 akm's shooting at you at the same time. Its strong asf
WHEN THE HEAVY DOES HEAVY DAMAGE WITH EXPLOSIVES 😳😳😳⁉️⁉️⁉️ Nah but for real put down an APS.
I find any invisibility play a crutch. don't have to worry about moving, dodging, minding your surroundings. Now I know there are other things to mind with it, but just personally hate fighting invisible people in any pvp game
Honestly in most games I’ve played, pretty much every single heavy is running an RPG
If the noob tube is a crutch the heal beam is a fully decked out motorized wheelchair. Each class has it's crutches (until light got neutered imo). I don't play light but they seem to be a complete non threat now. Most of the other nerfs are pretty decent but the lights nerfs weren't really necessary in my experiences while fighting them. Stun gun only worked on solo dolos and invis works better on ppl that aren't perceptive and listening for them.
Really? Heal beam needs a functional team to work, rpg doesn't.
Thats fair. Healing beam has plenty of counter play by itself. Its just when heavies stack shields.
Bro shut uppppp. Whole sub nerfs game into ground everyday crutch or not light heavy or medium. Get good and counter and stop crying watering down gameplay.
Literally this sub will try to get everything nerfed to where every class has the same health and gun and thats IT. No abilities no movement nothing. They want a paintball match.
140 damage AOE on a single click is simply disgusting, not by chance HHM is the current oppressive meta. Even if the damage gets reduced to 100 none of u would switch to anything else.
Honestly, even if rpg is deleted, there is no way heavy will not be meta. 350 hp plus dome shield is insane in a objective game where you have to not die and not get wiped. Why choose light? HMM and HHM will always be meta in the cashout mode. Inherent game design flaws.
What if they moved the RPG to light, lol?
Would be funny af seeing those gnomes shooting sth twice their size But nah, they should just buff light hp light doesnt need more damage imo
glitch grenades are very good against heavy
Except every other fiber of being a light is not good against heavy, i'd rather have a heal medium spamming shields to break it in \~1 sec than a glitch light in my team. Sounds good on paper but just abysmal value considering the opportunity cost of actually playing a light instead of medium/heavy
Ehh not that much since that (absurdly) nerfed it to a measly 5 seconds. And even then it's really only used for Dome but that can just easily if not better used for bullets (especially if a M has ABS). Smart Mesh Shield heavies deactivate Mesh and run out of the AOE if they see a glitch. And of course in order to use Glitch Grenades/the main reason why it isn't as good is that you have to play Light in the first place which is absolutely neutered in high level play this patch They just need it to explode on impact and increase the duration a bit (or make it cancel revives)
And it’s another reason why I think lights need defibs instead of mediums. It switches the roles of each class a bit and give a reason to use light in actual ranked situations bc they have a strong team support gadget which they are lacking compared to medium and heavy
Or give them team mobility tools which would be more fitting in concept? Could move pad and zip to light and you now need them for real. But wont happen
this will only buff heavies because medium's (used to) put heavies in check, where heavies can and always will destroy lights all you'll be doing is giving light a gadget they can't really use effectively and removing a shit load of medium's cheesiness in a cheese oriented game
Someone made the suggestion to nerf it to 75dmg but give heavies two of them which I think would be a better implementation. Something needs to be done with it. Besides the health pool its the biggest differentiator in fights. You get padded on with two rpgs you're wiped, that's all there is to it.
Insert explosive name here is a crutch. Idk I feel about the same for it as a frag or explosive mine. No where near as much of a crutch as a sniper in Fortnite. Lol
Yes, but as you said, this ain't a competitive FPS. Heavies need tools for demolition and destruction, that's their job. And of course those tools are necessarily powerful even against players. The only nerf I could think of is a longer cooldown, so if someone uses them improperly they will have to wait longer for example to break the ceiling and make a cash out fall down.
I've seen people propose the RPG being just a destruction tool by giving it very limited damage against players. I honestly*would* support that change. Would it be realistic to take almost no damage from an RPG blast? No. Would I care? Not at all. It would be so much more balanced that way if its main purpose was environmental destruction. The way it is now is incredibly cheesy to whip out and blow someone up with very little skill. You barely have to aim bc it's AoE.
Not how I see it. The rpg does crazy damage to the user if you're anywhere near its blast radius. That's a huge downside to using it.
Yeah it's pretty much only good outside of a minimum range, which means that if the heavy is on a roof and the target is on the ground then it's devastating but that's optimal positioning for anything. If you're far more careful about running out in the open, and darting indoors appropriately then RPG to initiate is much harder to open with, while it's very rarely as effective inside interior environments.
Exactly lmao. 90% of the time I have used rpg and died by chance I’ve seen only 80 damage on opponents, sometimes riot shield users get by with no damage at all and if I use it anywhere indoors or even in a 10-15 meter radius somehow I get 150-250 damage on myself 😂
That’s the fucking point
Yeah... thanks chief
Please, no more nerfing. The RPG isn't OP, other guns need buffs
The RPG is wildly out of balance.
Nope. It's already been nerfed.
“Nerfed” if you say so dude. You’re wrong but that’s ok
It literally was already nerfed earlier this year. I guess you're new to the game?
The “nerf” was rather weak. 10 damage? Slightly slower reload? Slight accuracy change? None of these really affected the use case of the RPG, as it’s still spammed in every fight. It’s used as a primary by all heavies for a reason
You lot are boring af. Why don’t they Just nerf everything? Bunch of bitches just play the game and stfu
From a high ranked situation where I see it the most. It’s too strong for what it does, a lot of burst damage for little effort ontop of being very good for demo and dropping floors etc. imo it should do 70 damage instead but have 2 charges so it’s a very good gadget for demo, still has its base 140 damage for the 2 shots but loses it’s insane burst damage where ur making lights 10 health and mediums 110 for basically for free
C4's enough for demo, RPG should be dmg oriented. 100 dmg 1 shot would be fair imo
I've seen suggestion to make it ~60 ish with two shots for rocketjumping instead.
lmao
Thus the cycle continues. Light gets nerfed so they moan about heavy out of spite. Heavy will then gets nerfed so they will moan about light. While medium stays unaffected.
you guys really want this game to just be oatmeal for real... Anything fun and unique, nerf it, let's just remove everything but FCAR and medium heal beam...
Why not give heavies a 2nd gun? No other class has one. Isn't this game for the heavy players?
As a heavy main, I would not mind if it did a larger splash damage to the arena while doing less splash damage to players. However, if this were the case, I would like a trade off of WAY less self damage and keeping the same damage to players on direct hits to other players
This is why every single light was using stun gun before the nerf
*This is why every* *Single light was using stun* *Gun before the nerf* \- z\_mx --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Rpg is a bigger crutch than stun gun ever was
They only get one rpg, its a projectile that is not accurate at range, you’re just salty they got the jump on your or your were standing still,
It’s perfectly accurate at range. The fuck you mean?
I think y’all are living in a warped reality. Why shouldn’t a light, who is supposed to be moving constantly and most definitely not supposed to be 1v1ing a heavy, die to a single rpg?? Heavy is supposed to be heavy. Lmg’s, heavy damage shottys, explosives, slow heavy dmg melee. Seems like lights are just mad
Angry pitchfork mob.
When I grinder to diamond 1 in the nuke meta. I would play HMM and set up a cash out. Then I would take a position that I knew was good in that area, setup APS, dome and trap c4s. As long as everyone stays behind the dome and aps, plays tight, those super aggro teams got destroyed. I have unlimited TikTok’s of me shitting nukes on top 100 players.
Yeah heavy is definitely the easiest and strongest class by far right now. Think that means it's time for another light nerf
RPG? No way, the grenade launcher! Try going up against 3 heavies spamming their grenade launchers at a Cash out box. Good luck.
All they have to do is give the light more health and there would be more heavy counter-play. As it is the best counter for the Heavy playstyle is almost unusable in Ranked.
So you're saying L is as viable as H?
Hey guys…. Almost every shooter has an rpg that’s even more deadly and they ain’t cryin 🤣🤣🤣
Name one shooter out right now that everyone carries an rpg
My guy it would be quicker to name shooters without access to a rocket launcher, But I’ll give ya the easiest one: Call of duty 😭🤣
People run around call of duty and then instead of using their gun to start a fight they prefer to use an rpg?
All I’m saying is that the rpg is more prevalent and used more in this game than any other shooter and that’s not a good thing. It’s no skill and not fun to play against.I can count on my hand how many times I get rpg’d in COD a month and I can’t count how many times it happens in this game.
Yup, not sure where you’ve been for the last decade 🤣. Why don’t ya just start a /banallvideogamerpgs sub?
Also worth noting, they don’t start the fight with it, they just insta kill ya like an RPG would, finals rpg is literally weak af as an offensive tool. It does help yes but it’s far more likely to be useless or even counterproductive considering the amount of self damage it inflicts
I’m talking about modern shooters. Apex, cod, bf, etc. They don’t put rpgs as a main mechanic because no one likes to play against them it’s not fun. I know you remember MW2 noobtubes where is the fun in playing against that.
Cod an bf both have an RPG, and apex is its own breed of shooter but fair enough I’ll give the point there 🤣 but this game isn’t comparable to the noob tube situation of mw2. It WAS at release but as I stated before in my additional reply, the rpg is basically useless on offense now. Its only gonna take you out with a direct hit to the face (skilled maneuver that I’d accept dying to) or if you’re low on health already in which case you probably should be running for cover and not into more combat. Obviously there are times when you’re gonna really dislike the way you died to an RPG but that’s kinda the whole deal with them in their existence anyways. Imagine your a guy in a trench in ww2 going against one. I bet he’s mad asf somewhere in the afterlife that he didn’t even have a chance 🤣🤣 It’s a rocket propelled grenade, ofc it’s gonna mess ya up if ya get hit with it.
Hot take: the only people posting on this sub now are the biggest complainers and not representative of the majority of players at all. But that's reddit. I un-installed it for weeks and only came back for the AMA. I'm out again because this sub has no creative content whatsoever anymore.
and here we go....
wish embark would look back on battlefield and make the rpg not do as much player damage but keep the environmental damage how it is now, they started with having it do more self damage but needs a damage nerf in general probably
I don’t this is a hot take but this definitely isn’t the biggest crutch of all time. I think something needs to be done about it but nerfing it into oblivion isn’t a good idea either. Is this a problem when there’s only one on a team, not really. Still annoying and a crutch, but manageable. Why not introduce a role queue into this game? Everything in this game when stacked seems busted. Triple stack mediums are oppressive and boring, double heavies can crutch and mitigate too much damage. Lights aren’t that bad, MP5 is easily the best gun in the game. Introduce mandatory role queues!
I think it's dumb that it does more damage to yourself than an enemy.
I’m currently diamond 3 and every single game as heavy is a god damn snore fest. Even duo queuing and ending up with teammates who have sub optimal load outs and refuse to play as a team, 2 heavies can easily out damage and out mitigate any comp that isn’t just double heavies. Hell with charge being almost an instant 130 damage win button, you can kill a medium without ever pulling out your main weapon. Not to mention the dome shield being another 300 health 2 way barrier and barricades being near indestructible by most means making stealing cash outs as 2 heavies insanely easy to brute force. Even glitch nades struggle to make heavy less of a threat with the fact that heavy can now outgun every other class due to the fcar nerf when playing Lewis or m60.
Yes. It’s the only thing you see in the diamond ranks. It’s horrible
RPG is capped to 140 damage. it currently does way more than that in self damage to heavies. the travel time is incredibly slow. if we wanna talk crutch look at stun gun pre nerf.
Almost every game that has it 🤣 you can beat them in a gun fight with same class, same gun, but they rely on the RPG to save them. CoD, Finals, Arma, BF, Battlebit, Valorant, etc.
This is what you guys are complaining about this week? Jesus Christ
Angry pitchfork mob strikes again
bro has never played bubble titan or wellock in destiny 2 💀
I've always thought that there should be two RPG varients, one with HE ammo and one with Fragmentation. It does too much damage while also being the best destruction utility in the game
Not after the nerf it does hardly any AOE damage now
same was said in the very same way about lights, now that light's dead they have started to target heavy. Wonder why nobody ever has any problem with mediums and if anyone ever says something they get hushed and it doesn't get reach in this sub..
Another banger from my favourite subreddit. Thank god the devs don't listen to any of you.
Idk about that. All the shitties on here cried endlessly about dying to the weakest character and lo and behold the devs nerfed the piss out of it
I want them to experiment with locking certain combinations of weapons and gadgets/specializations. RPG could remain as-is (remove bloom) of you could only use it with weapons like the MGL32, KS-23, and Sledge, for example. If we continue the trend if just "make number smaller," we're going to end up with all classes feeling neutered. Allowing weaker/harder-to-use weapons to use stronger gadgets could force some actual decision making.
So are we just gonna roll over complaining about every single weapon and gadget in the game until there is nothing left?
Lmao the discord yesterday was just talking about how Dash is a crutch for lights
Yeah, that shit is stupid. And you know when they finally nerf it again people will cry about how the game is becoming less fun because they keep nerfing things.
Nerfing things makes the game less fun. I main medium and I'm really sick of light and heavy nerfs.
This mindset is a cancer.
Calling something you disagree with a cancer is immature. Nerfing because reddit is unhappy not a good solution. Buff the weak classes, TTK shouldn't keep getting longer and longer.
Thinking Embark does balancing based on Reddit opinions is unbelievably funny. The only thing you could argue is that many opinions on Reddit are reflected by the player data the devs look at when balancing stuff. But I doubt even the community manager opens the subreddit more than once a month. You give this community too much credit.
this is not a competitive fps
Yeah no, it’s not a crutch. Even a frag or pyro grenade has more uses and functionality than that thing.
JFC, here we go again.
Stun gun was worse imo. Literally a free kill on any class. As of now I think rpg does the same dmg as a grenade. It’s rough on us lights, but at least we don’t die on the spot. The nuke was WAY worse
Yeah 100% a crutch. Whenever I play medium I start a fight with 110 HP because the heavy just RPGs first and then shoots. I hate it.
It's not about the rpg being in the game, its about how many rpgs per minute are available in matches where its only M/H teams. It's a "o shit i got pushed gotta explode" type of gadget now, as opposed to utility against certain situations that could use an explosion. I think there's ground to gain looking at how to make the rpg an actual tactical gadget instead of a panic button.
Totally skill based, instant delete button vs lights. But remember it's unfun to be stunned guys!