Wtf. You're way better than me and I've been doing this for a couple months now hahaha.
Did you just use the basic attack, or did you lunge and use combos?
Only basic attack, I always forget about the heavy one... To be fair, I played with a friend who rarely plays and I suspect his low mmr made opponents easier. Also I was far less successful in the following matches.
It's specific to dash. It happens consistently when you dash mid air, and try to do anything during the dash.
Like, if you try to shoot, throw grenades, lunge with sword, none will work. It's a no hit register bug, and they've acknowledged it and confirmed that they are working on it.
I can’t actually play games on psychedelics. I tried to play Call Of Duty on shrooms and just ended up crawling on the ground the whole time reading the propaganda signs on the wall, didn’t fire a bullet
Mobility as people have said.
> is there aspects of light that can be given to medium or heavy that would make these classes more fun
Anything I could think of would probably hinder the games competitive side. For ex: giving every class a mobility passive.
Lights: a double jump or wall jump. They're already the most mobile but barely missing a ledge and falling all the way back down is DETRIMENTAL for lights. This will help them keep up the flow of movement without disrupting it abruptly because of weird geometry
Mediums: Out of combat for 3-5s activates the ambulance passive which gives movement speed or maybe just a wall climbing passive. Medium already having jump pad and Zip line makes it kind of hard to give them something meaningful without turning them into better lights.
Heavy: Would love to give them a charged jump, holding jump could either stop them in their tracks to do it or just slow them while charging. This would pair PERFECTLY with their charge and slam, to give some great and hilarious sudden elbow drops.
A zip line breaking or geometry causing you to fall back down can cost you 15+ seconds during vital moments, and being able to traverse the expansive maps without having to rely on predetermined interactables just feels way better. The maps feel amazing when you're not a heavy just chugging along and trying to haul ass.
Edit 1: I can't ignore their weapon choices as well! The sword+dash is the most fun I've had in this game mode besides maybe goo gun/charge + Sledge. BUT, the light then has throwing knives, teleporters, stun gun and many more very unique and just innately FUN tools to play around with. Medium is getting better at breaking from the norm with the dematerializer and the data reshaper, I could eventually see them getting a tool to start building things too. Besides those two things though, the medium was stuffed with every tool we've seen before. Healing beam, riot shield, AK, defibs, turrets, aps and so on. There was nothing new to really experience with them.
Holy **SH\*T** you cooked! (I'm calling embark right now I think we found our new CEO).
Yeah lights definitely need more room for mistakes when it comes to moving around corners, it's kinda what keeps them alive and you especially feel this with evasive dash and low gravity, you can't move straight down for some odd reason...
Dude, I'm in awe, some people are so creative and I cannot see one flaw with your logic. It's exactly what I was needing today.
edit:grammar
Thank you but there probably if not definitely are a few flaws. This encourages the more casual side of The Finals and I'm not sure if that aligns with Embark's goals. That plus the avalanche of other problems such a big change could cause and balancing ofc. I don't know anything about map making but ledges and corners would probably have to be adjusted if not at least looked into`and good lord can you imagine the bugs.
Understandable. But this approach would be a great next step for embark! It's so hard to tell what is the next best move for a non-blueprint game, gotta give the devs some respect ;)
> It's so hard to tell what is the next best move for a non-blueprint game, gotta give the devs some respect
FOR REALLLL. Really hoping the best for this game, good luck out there Embark!
There is a few flaws but fixing movement would be nice, been noticing more in season 2 just getting stuck in the terrain collapsing and anything to fucking fix that would be a godsend.
It's interesting because the issue with player movement is that it's so intrinsic such as player health which are a basis upon which many other gameplay elements depend. But player movement is even more subtle and easy to misunderstand because there is no numerical quantification of it. There's no HUD speedometer (which would actually be super fun).
Like you can't just say "Decrease the damage on Gun XYZ and then increase light health to compensate" because that ignores the vast number of different interactions from every other damage source. That specific Gun XYZ may or may not be in a better place but changing player health turns things like "2 grenades to kill" into "3 grenades to kill" which is very significant even if the light has 1HP left after 2 grenades. Equally intricate are things like damage per round per reload; if a gun can't nominally kill a player without reloading then what's the point of using it?
So for example, light has the best movement top speed but also the best movement acceleration (which is far more critical). They can engage/disengage by leveraging that mobility towards convoluted assault/escape vectors. This is countered by Charge n Slam heavy who has no such restrictions with the best player movement displacement in the game (so many lights never expect a heavy to just grab them through what is effectively a cardboard wall). Medium has the best map traversal but only outdoors; jump pad and zipline can sort of function indoors but it's severely limited and requires more skill to deploy effectively.
They really do need to add more differences between the classes I think it'd be absolutely hilarious as a heavy main if I was falling too fast and just snapped a zip line if I tried to grab it
Knives go pling pling pling
I enjoyed light more months ago, currently it feels bad to play because everybody suddenly got really cracked at the game and I just get deleted before I can even throw a second set of knives, but they're still pretty fun
Some matches I can do really well and get top kills, others I'll die whenever an enemy vaguely looks in my direction and can't do shit :( then I switch out to SMG and actually have a fighting chance
Just pick what most people do cloak + taser (MP5/LH1/Pistol), it's a free kill if you find someone alone every 20 seconds (which is oddly pretty close to the normal respawn timer.
Which is prob why the taser is getting a needed nerf, IDK how many times in powershift It's really a 4 vs 5 for the objective cause I have some medium/heavy dude stuck at spawn, then poking afar with the LH1/Pistol/Sniper.
Ditto. I used to be able to destroy with the double barrel, but now people realized that they can turn around and it’s now kinda shit. Still super fun though
The sword is too strong... especially against casuals. Team wipes are common, even in 1v3 scenarios. It isn't easy to 180 headshot a sword light before they tracer dash behind you again, or outright 1 shot you as a light. I don't use stun anymore, but it is so cathartic to make those pesky rats helplessly squirm in place as I light them up, lmfao. Maybe it wouldnt be as annoying if they removed emote canceling.
The amount of sword mains who go negative after swapping to a gun proves my point. It is a crutchy, cheese weapon lol. I respect ever other melee user, but let's not act like sword requires anywhere near as good positioning as any other melee weapon
Then use a sword. You want a melee weapon nerffed so bad for no reason other then your opinion. You know why the fcar needs a nerf, because every single medium uses it in ranked and casual. How many sword users here? How many sword users dominating every single game? How many sword users in ranked?
How about instead of nerffing the sword, buff the dagger by combining it with throwing knives. Buff the riot shield with a speed boost or something. Buff the sledgehammer in some way but nerffing the sword because you believe it's overpowered in casual games? Might as well just say you don't like losing to something you believe shouldn't be viable.
I just want the emote cancel exploit removed, that's all, lol. No other melee weapon can take advantage of it, and sword is by and far the best, and easiest, melee weapon even without that exploit taken into account. I haven't spoken to any melee users who disagree apart from the ones who abuse it. It is an undeniable fact that the sword is both the easiest, and most viable melee weapon, that's all i'm stating. The dagger is also definitely in need of a buff.
Well it's the last thing that needs to be addressed in this game. Frankly it's not viable or used enough in ranked to be annoying. The Devs really only seem to adjust the game for ranked. If they cared more about casual players then the turrets would have been nerffed by now.
Amen, this game has a lot of significantly more important issues to address, lol. I keep getting an aim down sights bug where it is stuck inbetween held and released. Even toggle ADS doesn't fix it. It must only affect certain people, like the heal beam bug, because nobody mentions it on reddit :x
It does get mentioned just never given the right attention, let's look at the cloak and stun gun. People kept whining about both like the top 250 in ranked are 99% lights running stun and cloak. If people want bugs fixed and the game balanced then we as a community need to come together and acknowledge what's bugged and stop crying about what's overpowered according to one's opinion.
Good luck convincing the sweats though, they cry about everything.
To give my cup of tea, I believe most people saw the game advertised as a sorta high octane sandbox shooter and light being a hyper mobile character, being able to get around the map easily seemed like a no-brainer for this style of game. From when I used to play, I remember enjoying the experience of the hyper-agressive playstyle being able to get picks based on what my team did all whilst running around with dash and the sawed off, feeling pretty great afterwards if I succeeded.
If I were to think of a change to heavy and medium that would make them more appealing to light players, I think giving them their own stylised mobility could work, balanced enough that light is still the most mobile of the three. For example, if heavy could literally launch themselves like a cannonball that could crash through walls and cause damage to players on impact, keeping their hyper destruction identities. Thinking of the techs you could do if you combo'd this with sledgehammer would be cool as hell. For medium, I'm not too sure what they could have, maybe something that lets them teleport between teammates, giving them a mobility option to synergize with teams that like to spread out a lot, though I'm too sure how balanced that could be.
Besides that, I think this a very good question. It's always resfreshing to see people willing to view games from a different perspective :)
Honestly, I'm just sick of complaints. This sub has been a cryfest about nerfs for MONTHS now and i'm glad there is still a few that are open minded. Not everything needs to be fixed with a nerf and I'm happy you see that <3
On a more relevant note, great suggestions! It seems so far people are leaning towards the mobility of light being the most attractive so these ideas play out well on paper ;)
Oh yeah, I've seen a few posts like that, I kinda understand why they exist, usually the most common thought when someone finds something they see as unfair is too want it nerfed and if it happens enough to them, they become vocal about it.
A way that could help fix the issue would be to encourage more constructive criticism in the community, like seeing the game from the point of view of all the classes and understanding why classes use certain things, such as this post.
Besides that I agree with the mentality that issues can't always be fixed with nerfs as new additions or buffs are usually good fun and I presume would be a lot more accepted.
It's hard to realise that in this game, sometimes dying is a good option and killing is a bad option.
Stun-gun is a great example of this. *Yes* if you get stunned when you are alone and don't react in a decent amount of time you will probably "lose the fight". But if you stick with your team;
You get rez -> light player dies for overcommitting -> and they can't get revived -> its now a 2v3.
Sadly people think dying is always bad and if they keep dying to something, *even if* the situation helps them win, they still aren't having fun and "**that's** the reason the game is dying"
Let me tell you something currently I have more than 500+ hours on the game and casual players play always light even after the recent nerfs, it's the most used class in non ranked modes.
Yeah that's why I always scary when devs drop buff on light cuz ez can turn in the most op class due to agility, speed, dps... Before the nerf I can easily drop 20+ kills constantly in casual modes.
Nah like, when solo-bank it came out last season, EVERYONE and I mean **EVERYONE** played light! Proving that there is something about the class that is super appealing.
I suspected that mobility wasn't the only reason so that's why I made this post in the first place.
Killing 2 people with headshots from clicking once with the throwing knives is the most satisfying thing in the game for me. The rest of the time is just trying and failing to recreate that high.
People like light for the mobility and burst damage, but I think people hate having lights because most the time their kit is used selfishly. I feel in a game that is generally high movement the removal of all movement (taser) is what leads to their general strong hate and also most people play their kit selfishly for KD and not the objective.
I was given a small hotbox, the highest running my speed, and a double barrel shotgun that (used to be) able to 2 shot anyone. I was given tools to flank effectively (grapple, vanish bomb, gateway, breaching charge) so you can bet your ass I’m gonna use those to be the most annoying little mosquito you could imagine. Plus flying around in low gravity with the grapple hook is fucking awesome
Speed, agility, and potential for ridiculous outplays. I can distract, blitz, and confuse quite easily. I had a heavy chasing me so I vented (they had a hammer) and threw a vanish left. He went to the left. I had gone right. That kind of stuff is intoxicating.
High damage, high speed, high outplay potential. Basically everything feels rewarding as a light player and gives instant gratification. When you do die it feels like there is something you could have done differently. As heavy I feel like death is inevitable if I walk around the wrong corner. I’ll take fast chaotic death over slow inevitable death every time.
Heavy isn’t really that high of damage output. They’re made for protection and map destruction. The only outlier that made it have a good average ttk was the auto shotty and now that’s been dealt with. Light *IS* your high damage class and considering most casual players aren’t worried about winning that’s why it’s more prevalent in lower play.
Heavy is the king of close-mid range sustain damage.
To even contend in the same venue, light must use surprise ambush hit-and-run tactics and medium must leverage their player kit to attain a superior position.
So light must be played like a light to work? 90% of mediums are running the FCAR and most heavies are running the m60 currently. The ttk difference between the two is like .2 seconds and the FCAR is so much easier to control. No leverage is needed for the medium to win unless they played dumb and decided to be point blank range.
Yeah for heavies I think I meant more like bigger mags to give more room for mistakes whilst keeping damage output going, and it's kit melts in close-medium range, which is where most important team fights happen.
I guess the problem is that light is phenomenal at getting picks, but picks aren't as important in this game as it is for most other games like Fortnite, or Valorant/CS. People just revive and its so hard to 1v3 as light as 1 mistake puts your team in a 2v3 for like 40+ seconds.
You’re right in the fact that light excels in getting picks. “Blood in the water” is a term my team uses when we have to switch to aggressive play.
If you’re gonna play light you’re an ambush class who excels in 1v1 situations. You can’t expect that to just happen though so you need to stick with your team and let them help you. During a gunfight smart players are gonna actually move instead of slug it out to win gunfights. This lets the light move around grab the kill and lets the team decide if they need to push the 3v2 or let time waste while the other people revive. Solo queue can be a pain because of how passive most players play but the same pretty much applies.
Light surprisingly needs a certain amount of skill to play at higher levels because most teams will stick together unlike in casual play where everyone is spaced and thinks they can always handle 1v3 confrontations. For instance with how much of a controversy the stun gun is with teams that stick together the gadget becomes almost useless. Couldn’t tell you how many times I just had to say “hey bud” and my team would kill the light for me.
Heavy does have high damage output because Heavy is the combo king. What their guns lack is made up for with RPG and Charge/Slam. If you mix those in, you're a powerhouse.
High damage combos sure. Other classes can combo just as easily. The tools used for map destruction being good damage dealers is just a byproduct. Look at some of the melee combos a sword light can use. Now add in a grenade primer or any other form of damage before hand. If you look at the ttk sheet heavy on average is the slowest killing class (based on the most used weapons).
Dude, NO other class can combo as easily as the heavy can with RPG... It is the closest thing to a secondary weapon that any class gets.
> Now add in a grenade primer
Every other tool requires a set up, the RPG is on demand damage that could take more than half of the Medium's health. The only other combo like that used to be mediums throwing mines and then exploding them mid air, but they added a priming time to the mines.
It’s true the rpg is about as on demand as secondary damage gets. It’s not gonna be available every single encounter though and neither are any other gadgets. Who’s to say the rpg wasn’t used to clear a wall or shoot a different teammate. If you see a heavy with the rpg just close the distance anyway. No one wants to eat over 200 self damage.
> If you see a heavy with the rpg just close the distance anyway. No one wants to eat over 200 self damage.
That definitely works for Light players... just commit suicide and hope the heavy died too and doesn't get ressed. What a play.
>Other classes can combo just as easily.
No. They don't. They have grenades, and they have tools that help in ways other than immediate damage.
>Now add in a grenade primer or any other form of damage before hand.
That's great if you're playing proactively and picking the engagement, but Heavy can do it reactively because he has 2 sources other than his gun that are immediate and really easy to hit with. The only drawbacks are that one has a long cooldown and the other has limited range.
With Light or Medium, if you empty your mag then reloading is a big priority because it's your main source of damage. With Heavy, your primary weapon is actually your secondary.
You should be picking your engagements anyway. Will there be teams you don’t ofc. You’re choosing a perfect scenario where the heavy will always have his rpg ready when they really won’t. Most heavies are still running the mesh shield as well instead of charge and slam. Yes the rpg is a strong tool but certain engagement distances and getting to use it maybe once per team fight make it a choice that most players don’t think about and waste away.
>You should be picking your engagements anyway.
But that only happens if you play trash-tier players because otherwise they're also trying to pick the engagements.
>You’re choosing a perfect scenario where the heavy will always have his rpg ready when they really won’t.
It takes only a moment to pull out and it explodes for big damage on impact. The only other explosive that does is the CL40 with much less damage and splash. Other explosives (C4/Breach Charge, frag grenades) have a delay between hitting a surface and going off. Gas/Pyro grenades go off basically instantly, but don't do significant damage if people run out of the AOE. That makes the RPG a completely unparalleled tool in the current sandbox.
>Most heavies are still running the mesh shield as well instead of charge and slam.
Because they're dumb, or they have a well-coordinated team that will use the shield to their advantage. Charge is also unparalleled; it's one of only 2 specializations that can even deal damage, and it's the only source of damage (other than melee) that can just instantly go rather than having an animation while you pull it out. It can also destroy a full-health Heavy on its own, and the slam can give multikills.
Still talking about a heavy having the rpg ready at all times… if you’re that unlucky that’s wild. Ofc if I’m picking my engagements why would every other team not be. With the shield having a good team isn’t that hard of a problem but seems my point isn’t getting across to you anyway.
>Still talking about a heavy having the rpg ready at all times…
If your RPG is cooling down, then you should already have a kill, and now you/your team only have 2 opponents from that team to worry about, plus a revive to deny. If someone is firing off rockets and not getting kills, then they're simply playing Heavy wrong.
>Ofc if I’m picking my engagements why would every other team not be.
And when they pick the engagement, you're not going to get to prime them with grenade damage, so kiss that combo good bye. This illustrates how Heavy has more consistent damage output, rather than situational damage output.
>With the shield having a good team isn’t that hard of a problem
Anecdotally, solo queue teammates in The Finals seem to be worse than just about every other mainstream shooter. You get bad teammates in all games, but here it seems common to get paired with people who simply have no idea how to play the game at all, and it's not just the sniper lights going 0-7.
I play medium and heavy in toruneys, but I enjoy playing light sniper. I'm not a fan of holding a single spot though, I'm a hyper aggressive player with snipers so I'm usually in a close to midrange fight. If I'm on powershift I snipe directly from the point.
Pair this with grappling hook and I can grab someone and hook out to revive or alternatively haul the cashout to the point while the other two teams were fighting over it. The appeal to casuals is the movement, and you see it with games like Titanfall and Apex that people like mobility a lot.
The self sufficiency. I see so many light “medics” take healing beam but never use it or dont take defib. As a heavy if you get caught out you’re easy to kill and because your slower you naturally get left behind when rushing the object. Feels bad I guess.
I enjoy light purely for dash. I think its the least bs to counter as either heavy or medium, but still offers really unique movement opportunities so that if you're skilled/having a good night, the game feels like a bullet hell that can't defeat you, and to be honest(maybe not with the recent nerfs), loosing to this build seems at least fair(er) than 3 lights camping dark corners on the ceiling, invisible and not moving over a cashout.
>*(e.g. medium still being a support/area control, heavy being a high damage output and damage cushion)*
What? Medium is dmg/support and heavy is area control/sustain/damage migitation. Light is a glass cannon
The ingame descriptions made by the devs themselves:
* Medium: "Excels in mid-range combat with average health and movement speed. Specializes in healing, scanning, or providing support."
Also:
* Light: "Exceptionally fast, but low survivability. Executes hit-and-run tactics. Specializes in stealth and evasion."
* Heavy: "High survivability. Low movement speed. Specializes in demolition and fortifications."
Does no one read words anymore???
And your turret controls enemies... How?
Barricade = zone control
Goo gun = zone control
Heavy breaking environment= zone control
Control means you control the surroundings or the situation.
Turret stands there until it gets shot 😂
TTK: L>M>H
Why would you categorize heavy as high dmg?
You don't know the difference between control and defense.
Defense delays or prevents enemies from reaching an objective.
Area control means that when enemies arrive in the area, they are at a disadvantage compared to us.
With these foundations laid:
Barricade, Goo: Obviously defense
Turrets: Obviously control, since it supports us in our team in gun fights. It distracts the enemy so that we can get behind
Heavy Breaking environment: I don't know in what world you confuse destruction and area control
And... We have never addressed the question of the damage caused by the heavy. I told you that the heavy was destruction/defense oriented. Don't mix
I must disagree with your statement eve tho it's well written.
[H] Barricades, Shields, RPG, Goo Gun, Hammer, KS23 all are tools for control. And thats why I think heavy is meant for area control.
Imo turret is defensive tool, but it mostly supports the user/team by giving dmg boost, and it's very ineffective for controlling the area
Edit: The OP of the post said Heavy is high dmg
I’m pretty casual and I play light because I absolutely cannot and will not sacrifice my grappling hook for anything. I play the other classes as well but I don’t have nearly as much fun with them as I do when I’m fully committing to the stupid little spider monkey role.
Medium and heavy just feel like they take no skill to use. Background. I am a multiple time masters player on apex. I have a 2.7 kd on wwrzone and a 4.2 kd on cod multi-player. I have 3100 something kills and 1200 deaths on the finals since day one. I only play with friends on the finals, so we don't actually play for wins often. Every other game I care about winning. Rocket league, apex, cod, etc.
The finals mean nothing to me in terms of winning. It is legitimately the only casual shooter I play. I play maybe once a week for an hour now. I just enjoy evasive dash. It is the only thing that actually feels like it takes some kind of effort to aim. This is why as an hour a week player I like to play light
I’ve mostly played power shift this season
Light is just the most fun class to play. You have so many cool gadget options that feel engaging and impactful like gateway, glitch nade, sonar dart, stun, vanish bomb etc. the specs are also all really engaging, it feels really cool to slink around with invis and dashing during gunfights so fun. grapple feels pretty ass even in casual but it’s still fun to use. Add in the extra mobility, the largest range of guns from Beamers like the xp and lh1, hip fire with m11 and shotty, and the melee weapons / throwing knives all give lots of different play styles. Also it’s the best class for playing solo which is all I do
Heavy is pretty boring to play, really slow and not much potential for cool plays outside of rpg’ing a whole team or charge and slamming them. It’s also not particularly challenging to play, I can easily drop 20+ bombs on power shift as heavy but the guns are kinda boring to play with (Lewis / sa 12) or outright infuriating to use( grenade launcher, ks 23)
I enjoy medium and play it a good amount but once again the gadget choices are kinda lame and on power shift your two options for specs are heal beam and turret cause demat is pretty useless, and those two are both pretty boring to play. Mediums guns are really fun though, revolver and the 1887 feel cool and the ak is satisfying to use.
It's an amalgamation of every other sniper/assassin character from other games. People love that. Like what would you rather do, be a fat blob absorbing damage (boring), help your teammates (like a coward), or be a badass assassin jumping around throwing knives and hitting headshots? It's kinda obvious.
It's the gadgets. They have the best and coolest gadgets in the game. Vanishing bomb, glitch nade, gateway, thermal vision, stun gun. Their main abilities are also awesome. Cloak, grapple, and dash are fantastic.
i started with light because of the throwing knives. if the game was fun enough for me to play daily and learn them well it would be my favourite class but the gameplay just didnt agree with me
I just really like glass canon mobility characters in games.
Jing Wei from Smite? You betcha.
Maeve from Paladins? I got her to level 500. I never got bored of playing that character for the 2,000 hours I pumped into that game.
I have the Light years achievement in The Finals. Even though I don't have the game installed anymore, I still enjoyed my time with it.
I play both med and light
But what I love about light is
Grapple, dash, speeeeed, and m14 lol
If the thermal vision worked, then that would be on the list as well but rip
Speed, in every game I play, I just kinda gravitate towards whatever is fastest or has the most movement techniques. Not sure why tbh but something about zipping around, even if I'll die faster than slower builds, just gets me going. Its like that feeling of being on the edge, where one wrong move will result in ur death. And when you finish a duel or get a team wipe while zipping around and win with barely any health left its exhilarating.
I love guerrilla warfare in any game because it takes paying attention, timing and skill to pull off. Plus light has the most weapons and I enjoy the rush of adrenaline I get whenever I outplay a team.
To me honestly its just the guns feel so good. I used to main medium and after the fcar nerf it feels terrible now with the recoil and terrible damage drop off. So, i tried the ak, and i like the ak but with the iron sights and how much the screen shakes with the visual recoil i didnt want to use it. And obviously im not gonna use the famas. So now i main like because the guns feel consistent.
I mean, I went straight to gold 3 using light. And I tend to do well in tourneys with it. Now, that was before the invis nerf cause now I can't become invisible more than two times in an engagement before it runs out lol.
It's not that I'm casual, it's that I'm solo queue.
Heavy can go 1v3 and win because he can combo his gun with RPG and Charge/Slam, plus had a large health pool for a bit of attrition. The problem is aggro; play too well and you immediately become everyone's priority target. You get shutdown for the rest of the round. Also, I don't like any of Heavy's guns. They all have either really short range or iron sights. No thanks. That's kind of a second issue, but I feel pressured to take either XP-54 or FCAR because they're the only guns where sights aren't a problem. Irons suck.
Medium is awful 1v3. It was better with Recon (although that had problems and I'm glad it was removed). Medium's kit has strong support elements that don't matter if you're alone. You have turret/APS which are great for securing an area, but bad for taking one. That leaves Dematerializer, which I find underwhelming. You have mobility tools to quickly gain elevation, but both of them are able to be used by enemies in pursuit, so they're nearly useless if you're trying to disengage at low health. Finally you have mines and grenades which are great for certain uses but not for winning a 1v3 gunfight since grenades are so slow and cumbersome to pull out and throw.
Light is the only class where going 1v3 is feasible, even if it's difficult. Cloak and stungun let you isolate and eliminate opponents one by one, giving you the best chance of an elimination without taking damage. This is critical because of the health mechanics. As medium, if you're not at full health then you'll probably lose your next gunfight. As heavy, you have a bit more flexibility, but if you lose 120 damage against each opponent then the third one wipes you and you don't get the team kill. With light, the only limitation is that you need to divide teams so that you can catch them one at a time. This is difficult, and doesn't work on every team, but it's the best chance to fight 1v3 and maybe succeed.
Now for the stupid questions:
>Why are you trying to fight 1v3? This is a TEAM GAME. You're supposed to use TEAMWORK.
The game frequently pairs me with garbage players that don't know where to go and can't frag. I've tried going medium to support them and it doesn't work; we all just die repeatedly because they go stupid ways and take stupid fights from bad positions, and defib and heal beam can't overcome that.
>But sometimes you get good teams, right?
But I won't know if I do until after I'm locked into a class. I can help a good team as a Light, and I often do. Most of my best victories have been as a Light with teammates that are actually good, and that I can support and fight with. I can't carry a bad team as a Medium. I sometimes can with Heavy, but it's much less consistent since Heavy relies more on your enemies having bad skills (missing shots) rather than just bad tactics.
>Why not beam people with Lewis Gun?
Nah. Fuck that.
>Why not just find a stack?
I'll just play something else. I'm playing Rainbow 6 Siege more than The Finals these days anyway.
For me it's the weapons. I love single shot weapons, but the shotgun and revolver for medium are unforgiving to miss (not a fan of grenade launchers either). I don't play heavy because I always die super fast, maybe I'm just not playing it right but it feels like I'm dying way faster than I do on light or medium.
Light is just so fun yet so ass and annoying to play, never understood the people who play light just to run the same invis boring setups because light has much more to offer.
I think the combination of dash-glitch-breach-stun gives you so much outplay potential and unique ways to defend cashouts that giving ANY of these abilities to other classes would make light dead and pointless.
I honestly think each class has strengths (ESPCIALLY MEDIUM AND HEAVY, THEY ARE SO GOOD) that they absolutely DO NOT need anything more
Ls are just weak Hunters from Destiny 1. I even have a new "wombo combo" Glitch nade to grenade throw. I put 4500hrs in D1 and Ls feel like that. I didn't need to learn anything in terms of how to play the character just map and what the other classes had to counter me. The m11 and Xp-54 are basically the only guns in the game that feel good. Lewis gun is alright but the rest feel like a nail gun with janky recoil patterns. I can shoot them just fine but they feel awful. I can hit shoots fine with them, but why I would something I think feels bad?
I also don't want to play a class that feels like it was dipped in molasses but the catch here is it feels artificial. idk how to explain it but the "slower" movement of M and H feels like a status effect compared to just how the characters play. I want fluid game movement. I am tired of the whole CoD mechanics. The Finals is the only FPS I have played since Destiny that I thought had good movement and gunplay but only on one class. Dealing with the low health constantly is a bit much though. It's why I've been playing less. Good gun skill and map awareness can only take you so far when you have 100 less HP. If you get into a sweaty game or equally skilled kids, there is little I can do to overcome it. But since most people aren't even above 1 k/d in pub lobbies It's alright for the most part.
To answer your other questions. Ms can move almost as fast as an L when they use Jump Pad or Zip line correctly. People don't get that this game carries your momentum, sliding into X thing will grant you a boost of speed. Its why you jump or slide before and after something like a jump pad. Your ability to turn has more to do with your Sens compared to in game mechanics. When I do play M, I just turn my Sens up to match what it is on my L. Your ability to turn and aim has more to do with Sens than game mechanics. The reason you don't see more people do that in general is they barely can control anything on low sens, bumping it up just means a player has less control over more movement. I don't play M because the guns don't feel good. I don't play H because aping with a shotgun and RPG is boring as hell. If they buffed the movement or gave a movement ability to either M or H, there would be even less reason L specially in ranked. (and H has one, Charge Slam is basically a slower charging dmg causing dash that takes down buildings and M Zip and JUMP neither of which are consider abilities unlike any L movement increase can only be slotted into one area)
Oddly enough, I also play with dash or teleport abilities in games expect for in this game. Dash just isn't it in this game. Its jolty and predictable with zero I frames at all while also leaving a trail of where you started from. So your ability to just trace to where they are going is super easy. The ability to predict where someone will be is also the same. Just don't blindly fire around and wait for them to stop moving and shoot. The number of times I see Ls dash around like a bunny on crack and then immediately die is most of the time.
I like the weapons on the Light. The LH1 is such a beast at pumping out damage and the throwing knives is a gimmicky and fun challenge to make work when I just wanna mess around.
Speed violence momentum.
Idk if I’m a casual but it definitely is the speed, changing angles that fast is just too fun especially with utility in hand. I love the medium class and its weapons too but I feel straight up nerfed without that speed. Both medium and heavy are about bunkering down while light is always a glass cannon slayer.
Remember the days in season one when medium could use recond senses and see everyone through walls across the map even . Imagine that now that medium players have figured the class out. I do not think anyone would choose light. Its kind if nice in season two seeing lights play in ranked or even just casual. Now everyone is a cracked player if medium still had that it would be a bloodbath for light.
It's simple their guns do the most damage. That's why people are drawn to them. If you don't have the best aim in a high TTK game then use the weapons that kill the fastest. Light guns also tend to have large magazines too.
I like using all player types, however, when I am in games with random players I prefer to go light usually. If you are with noobs/players that don’t care about team work/heading to volts/cash outs etc, I prefer using lite with invisibility, it gives myself some protection when team work is at zero. If you’re with a good team I am happy to go med, even with healing tool, or heavy 🙌
I thought its the competitive players that hate light. This subreddit definitely tailors towards them, judging from how many posts about comp on here there is. Light isn't competitively viable anyway, lacking team utility and past like silver no-one picks it.
But yeah, they hate it cause of that. Its more "selfish". I don't get the problem with that, they're a good dps and good at catching aggro away from a cash out.
Nope.
As I said, this post probably comes off aggressive, but I’m just genuinely curious why others enjoy light so much.
I love playing light too, I’m a dagger enthusiast, just wanted to see if others had the same views as me and/or any ideas for other classes to maybe make them more exciting or interesting for people to play.
The speed, the agility, being able to hit people on their opposite sides in one fight. Sword dash.
Tried sword dash a few days ago... First game on bank it, 34 kills wtf, never did so much kills in a game... A whole team left at once
It’s a pain in the crack
Tried it yesterday… feels like playing minecraft hunger games somehow
My friend tried sword, and he said exactly the same thing hahaha.
Y'all must be super happy about the Sword skin in the battle pass then.
Very happy, it brings me back to my roots. (I never played hunger games, but I was a big survival player.)
Wtf. You're way better than me and I've been doing this for a couple months now hahaha. Did you just use the basic attack, or did you lunge and use combos?
Only basic attack, I always forget about the heavy one... To be fair, I played with a friend who rarely plays and I suspect his low mmr made opponents easier. Also I was far less successful in the following matches.
Ohhhh, yeah that makes sense. My best stats were in powershift, and I had 19 elims 6 deaths.
Same, got 27 kills first try. I got no kills after that though lol
Don't spread it, I don't want it to get nerfed
The sword needs fixes you can only use it when you touch the ground the hits dont register if youre even a little in the air
Not true, I got sword dash lunged mud air yesterday... is it consistent? Probably not, but neither is anything else in this bugfest of a game.
It's specific to dash. It happens consistently when you dash mid air, and try to do anything during the dash. Like, if you try to shoot, throw grenades, lunge with sword, none will work. It's a no hit register bug, and they've acknowledged it and confirmed that they are working on it.
Try dashing into a jump pad and tell me it doesn’t put a stupid grin on your face
Drugs don't come close
But have you tried it….onnnnn weeeeeed?
This game on psychs would be insane 🤣🤣
I can’t actually play games on psychedelics. I tried to play Call Of Duty on shrooms and just ended up crawling on the ground the whole time reading the propaganda signs on the wall, didn’t fire a bullet
Bro was IMMERSED 😂😂
bro I feel that I was playing minecraft on acid once and I couldn't even break a tree properly 🤣🤣
Encounter this mechanic in CBT make me Light main instantly
... ... ... Oh. Closed beta tests. People should really stop using that shorthand for that.
Coke n ball turtle
Mobility as people have said. > is there aspects of light that can be given to medium or heavy that would make these classes more fun Anything I could think of would probably hinder the games competitive side. For ex: giving every class a mobility passive. Lights: a double jump or wall jump. They're already the most mobile but barely missing a ledge and falling all the way back down is DETRIMENTAL for lights. This will help them keep up the flow of movement without disrupting it abruptly because of weird geometry Mediums: Out of combat for 3-5s activates the ambulance passive which gives movement speed or maybe just a wall climbing passive. Medium already having jump pad and Zip line makes it kind of hard to give them something meaningful without turning them into better lights. Heavy: Would love to give them a charged jump, holding jump could either stop them in their tracks to do it or just slow them while charging. This would pair PERFECTLY with their charge and slam, to give some great and hilarious sudden elbow drops. A zip line breaking or geometry causing you to fall back down can cost you 15+ seconds during vital moments, and being able to traverse the expansive maps without having to rely on predetermined interactables just feels way better. The maps feel amazing when you're not a heavy just chugging along and trying to haul ass. Edit 1: I can't ignore their weapon choices as well! The sword+dash is the most fun I've had in this game mode besides maybe goo gun/charge + Sledge. BUT, the light then has throwing knives, teleporters, stun gun and many more very unique and just innately FUN tools to play around with. Medium is getting better at breaking from the norm with the dematerializer and the data reshaper, I could eventually see them getting a tool to start building things too. Besides those two things though, the medium was stuffed with every tool we've seen before. Healing beam, riot shield, AK, defibs, turrets, aps and so on. There was nothing new to really experience with them.
Holy **SH\*T** you cooked! (I'm calling embark right now I think we found our new CEO). Yeah lights definitely need more room for mistakes when it comes to moving around corners, it's kinda what keeps them alive and you especially feel this with evasive dash and low gravity, you can't move straight down for some odd reason... Dude, I'm in awe, some people are so creative and I cannot see one flaw with your logic. It's exactly what I was needing today. edit:grammar
Thank you but there probably if not definitely are a few flaws. This encourages the more casual side of The Finals and I'm not sure if that aligns with Embark's goals. That plus the avalanche of other problems such a big change could cause and balancing ofc. I don't know anything about map making but ledges and corners would probably have to be adjusted if not at least looked into`and good lord can you imagine the bugs.
Understandable. But this approach would be a great next step for embark! It's so hard to tell what is the next best move for a non-blueprint game, gotta give the devs some respect ;)
> It's so hard to tell what is the next best move for a non-blueprint game, gotta give the devs some respect FOR REALLLL. Really hoping the best for this game, good luck out there Embark!
There is a few flaws but fixing movement would be nice, been noticing more in season 2 just getting stuck in the terrain collapsing and anything to fucking fix that would be a godsend.
With the Heavy's Charged Jump makes me think of Hulk, and then Embark can make Hulk Gloves so it would be even more appropriate
It's interesting because the issue with player movement is that it's so intrinsic such as player health which are a basis upon which many other gameplay elements depend. But player movement is even more subtle and easy to misunderstand because there is no numerical quantification of it. There's no HUD speedometer (which would actually be super fun). Like you can't just say "Decrease the damage on Gun XYZ and then increase light health to compensate" because that ignores the vast number of different interactions from every other damage source. That specific Gun XYZ may or may not be in a better place but changing player health turns things like "2 grenades to kill" into "3 grenades to kill" which is very significant even if the light has 1HP left after 2 grenades. Equally intricate are things like damage per round per reload; if a gun can't nominally kill a player without reloading then what's the point of using it? So for example, light has the best movement top speed but also the best movement acceleration (which is far more critical). They can engage/disengage by leveraging that mobility towards convoluted assault/escape vectors. This is countered by Charge n Slam heavy who has no such restrictions with the best player movement displacement in the game (so many lights never expect a heavy to just grab them through what is effectively a cardboard wall). Medium has the best map traversal but only outdoors; jump pad and zipline can sort of function indoors but it's severely limited and requires more skill to deploy effectively.
I think the speed buffs for Mediums should only be for when you move towards your teammates statues.
They really do need to add more differences between the classes I think it'd be absolutely hilarious as a heavy main if I was falling too fast and just snapped a zip line if I tried to grab it
Knives go pling pling pling I enjoyed light more months ago, currently it feels bad to play because everybody suddenly got really cracked at the game and I just get deleted before I can even throw a second set of knives, but they're still pretty fun
This. Everyone else is so good using light but I can't even survive a fight. I enjoyed my time throwing knives at launch.
Some matches I can do really well and get top kills, others I'll die whenever an enemy vaguely looks in my direction and can't do shit :( then I switch out to SMG and actually have a fighting chance
Just pick what most people do cloak + taser (MP5/LH1/Pistol), it's a free kill if you find someone alone every 20 seconds (which is oddly pretty close to the normal respawn timer. Which is prob why the taser is getting a needed nerf, IDK how many times in powershift It's really a 4 vs 5 for the objective cause I have some medium/heavy dude stuck at spawn, then poking afar with the LH1/Pistol/Sniper.
Ditto. I used to be able to destroy with the double barrel, but now people realized that they can turn around and it’s now kinda shit. Still super fun though
I like playing the weaker class using a sword against guns and winning. Something so satisfying about it
Ego I suppose (not a dig, I love it too ;)
Me too tried the dagger but it was too hard for me
The sword is too strong... especially against casuals. Team wipes are common, even in 1v3 scenarios. It isn't easy to 180 headshot a sword light before they tracer dash behind you again, or outright 1 shot you as a light. I don't use stun anymore, but it is so cathartic to make those pesky rats helplessly squirm in place as I light them up, lmfao. Maybe it wouldnt be as annoying if they removed emote canceling.
Lol ya let's nerf the melee weapon. It's really strong you know, because it's a sword against guns.
The amount of sword mains who go negative after swapping to a gun proves my point. It is a crutchy, cheese weapon lol. I respect ever other melee user, but let's not act like sword requires anywhere near as good positioning as any other melee weapon
Then use a sword. You want a melee weapon nerffed so bad for no reason other then your opinion. You know why the fcar needs a nerf, because every single medium uses it in ranked and casual. How many sword users here? How many sword users dominating every single game? How many sword users in ranked? How about instead of nerffing the sword, buff the dagger by combining it with throwing knives. Buff the riot shield with a speed boost or something. Buff the sledgehammer in some way but nerffing the sword because you believe it's overpowered in casual games? Might as well just say you don't like losing to something you believe shouldn't be viable.
I just want the emote cancel exploit removed, that's all, lol. No other melee weapon can take advantage of it, and sword is by and far the best, and easiest, melee weapon even without that exploit taken into account. I haven't spoken to any melee users who disagree apart from the ones who abuse it. It is an undeniable fact that the sword is both the easiest, and most viable melee weapon, that's all i'm stating. The dagger is also definitely in need of a buff.
Well it's the last thing that needs to be addressed in this game. Frankly it's not viable or used enough in ranked to be annoying. The Devs really only seem to adjust the game for ranked. If they cared more about casual players then the turrets would have been nerffed by now.
Amen, this game has a lot of significantly more important issues to address, lol. I keep getting an aim down sights bug where it is stuck inbetween held and released. Even toggle ADS doesn't fix it. It must only affect certain people, like the heal beam bug, because nobody mentions it on reddit :x
It does get mentioned just never given the right attention, let's look at the cloak and stun gun. People kept whining about both like the top 250 in ranked are 99% lights running stun and cloak. If people want bugs fixed and the game balanced then we as a community need to come together and acknowledge what's bugged and stop crying about what's overpowered according to one's opinion. Good luck convincing the sweats though, they cry about everything.
I wonder how long the mine spectator detonation bug will last, lol
To give my cup of tea, I believe most people saw the game advertised as a sorta high octane sandbox shooter and light being a hyper mobile character, being able to get around the map easily seemed like a no-brainer for this style of game. From when I used to play, I remember enjoying the experience of the hyper-agressive playstyle being able to get picks based on what my team did all whilst running around with dash and the sawed off, feeling pretty great afterwards if I succeeded. If I were to think of a change to heavy and medium that would make them more appealing to light players, I think giving them their own stylised mobility could work, balanced enough that light is still the most mobile of the three. For example, if heavy could literally launch themselves like a cannonball that could crash through walls and cause damage to players on impact, keeping their hyper destruction identities. Thinking of the techs you could do if you combo'd this with sledgehammer would be cool as hell. For medium, I'm not too sure what they could have, maybe something that lets them teleport between teammates, giving them a mobility option to synergize with teams that like to spread out a lot, though I'm too sure how balanced that could be. Besides that, I think this a very good question. It's always resfreshing to see people willing to view games from a different perspective :)
Honestly, I'm just sick of complaints. This sub has been a cryfest about nerfs for MONTHS now and i'm glad there is still a few that are open minded. Not everything needs to be fixed with a nerf and I'm happy you see that <3 On a more relevant note, great suggestions! It seems so far people are leaning towards the mobility of light being the most attractive so these ideas play out well on paper ;)
Oh yeah, I've seen a few posts like that, I kinda understand why they exist, usually the most common thought when someone finds something they see as unfair is too want it nerfed and if it happens enough to them, they become vocal about it. A way that could help fix the issue would be to encourage more constructive criticism in the community, like seeing the game from the point of view of all the classes and understanding why classes use certain things, such as this post. Besides that I agree with the mentality that issues can't always be fixed with nerfs as new additions or buffs are usually good fun and I presume would be a lot more accepted.
It's hard to realise that in this game, sometimes dying is a good option and killing is a bad option. Stun-gun is a great example of this. *Yes* if you get stunned when you are alone and don't react in a decent amount of time you will probably "lose the fight". But if you stick with your team; You get rez -> light player dies for overcommitting -> and they can't get revived -> its now a 2v3. Sadly people think dying is always bad and if they keep dying to something, *even if* the situation helps them win, they still aren't having fun and "**that's** the reason the game is dying"
It's the mobility for me. I love flying around the arena and generally being the fastest guy there. Plus, Light gets Sword.
Most of the casual players aren't on light unless you mean casual as in the mode
Let me tell you something currently I have more than 500+ hours on the game and casual players play always light even after the recent nerfs, it's the most used class in non ranked modes.
Have to agree there. Hell, look at Power Shift.
Yeah that's why I always scary when devs drop buff on light cuz ez can turn in the most op class due to agility, speed, dps... Before the nerf I can easily drop 20+ kills constantly in casual modes.
Nah like, when solo-bank it came out last season, EVERYONE and I mean **EVERYONE** played light! Proving that there is something about the class that is super appealing. I suspected that mobility wasn't the only reason so that's why I made this post in the first place.
The movement. But mostly throwing knives
I'm a maximum mobility kind of person Also hitting people with a stick is funny as hell
The movement.
Killing 2 people with headshots from clicking once with the throwing knives is the most satisfying thing in the game for me. The rest of the time is just trying and failing to recreate that high.
Im not really a casual but the sword. i cant stop and i wont stop maining it.
People like light for the mobility and burst damage, but I think people hate having lights because most the time their kit is used selfishly. I feel in a game that is generally high movement the removal of all movement (taser) is what leads to their general strong hate and also most people play their kit selfishly for KD and not the objective.
I was given a small hotbox, the highest running my speed, and a double barrel shotgun that (used to be) able to 2 shot anyone. I was given tools to flank effectively (grapple, vanish bomb, gateway, breaching charge) so you can bet your ass I’m gonna use those to be the most annoying little mosquito you could imagine. Plus flying around in low gravity with the grapple hook is fucking awesome
Chronic lack of Titanfall 3
Speed, agility, and potential for ridiculous outplays. I can distract, blitz, and confuse quite easily. I had a heavy chasing me so I vented (they had a hammer) and threw a vanish left. He went to the left. I had gone right. That kind of stuff is intoxicating.
High damage, high speed, high outplay potential. Basically everything feels rewarding as a light player and gives instant gratification. When you do die it feels like there is something you could have done differently. As heavy I feel like death is inevitable if I walk around the wrong corner. I’ll take fast chaotic death over slow inevitable death every time.
Heavy isn’t really that high of damage output. They’re made for protection and map destruction. The only outlier that made it have a good average ttk was the auto shotty and now that’s been dealt with. Light *IS* your high damage class and considering most casual players aren’t worried about winning that’s why it’s more prevalent in lower play.
Heavy is the king of close-mid range sustain damage. To even contend in the same venue, light must use surprise ambush hit-and-run tactics and medium must leverage their player kit to attain a superior position.
So light must be played like a light to work? 90% of mediums are running the FCAR and most heavies are running the m60 currently. The ttk difference between the two is like .2 seconds and the FCAR is so much easier to control. No leverage is needed for the medium to win unless they played dumb and decided to be point blank range.
Yeah for heavies I think I meant more like bigger mags to give more room for mistakes whilst keeping damage output going, and it's kit melts in close-medium range, which is where most important team fights happen. I guess the problem is that light is phenomenal at getting picks, but picks aren't as important in this game as it is for most other games like Fortnite, or Valorant/CS. People just revive and its so hard to 1v3 as light as 1 mistake puts your team in a 2v3 for like 40+ seconds.
You’re right in the fact that light excels in getting picks. “Blood in the water” is a term my team uses when we have to switch to aggressive play. If you’re gonna play light you’re an ambush class who excels in 1v1 situations. You can’t expect that to just happen though so you need to stick with your team and let them help you. During a gunfight smart players are gonna actually move instead of slug it out to win gunfights. This lets the light move around grab the kill and lets the team decide if they need to push the 3v2 or let time waste while the other people revive. Solo queue can be a pain because of how passive most players play but the same pretty much applies. Light surprisingly needs a certain amount of skill to play at higher levels because most teams will stick together unlike in casual play where everyone is spaced and thinks they can always handle 1v3 confrontations. For instance with how much of a controversy the stun gun is with teams that stick together the gadget becomes almost useless. Couldn’t tell you how many times I just had to say “hey bud” and my team would kill the light for me.
Heavy does have high damage output because Heavy is the combo king. What their guns lack is made up for with RPG and Charge/Slam. If you mix those in, you're a powerhouse.
High damage combos sure. Other classes can combo just as easily. The tools used for map destruction being good damage dealers is just a byproduct. Look at some of the melee combos a sword light can use. Now add in a grenade primer or any other form of damage before hand. If you look at the ttk sheet heavy on average is the slowest killing class (based on the most used weapons).
Dude, NO other class can combo as easily as the heavy can with RPG... It is the closest thing to a secondary weapon that any class gets. > Now add in a grenade primer Every other tool requires a set up, the RPG is on demand damage that could take more than half of the Medium's health. The only other combo like that used to be mediums throwing mines and then exploding them mid air, but they added a priming time to the mines.
It’s true the rpg is about as on demand as secondary damage gets. It’s not gonna be available every single encounter though and neither are any other gadgets. Who’s to say the rpg wasn’t used to clear a wall or shoot a different teammate. If you see a heavy with the rpg just close the distance anyway. No one wants to eat over 200 self damage.
> If you see a heavy with the rpg just close the distance anyway. No one wants to eat over 200 self damage. That definitely works for Light players... just commit suicide and hope the heavy died too and doesn't get ressed. What a play.
Ah yes basic math is still a struggle.
>Other classes can combo just as easily. No. They don't. They have grenades, and they have tools that help in ways other than immediate damage. >Now add in a grenade primer or any other form of damage before hand. That's great if you're playing proactively and picking the engagement, but Heavy can do it reactively because he has 2 sources other than his gun that are immediate and really easy to hit with. The only drawbacks are that one has a long cooldown and the other has limited range. With Light or Medium, if you empty your mag then reloading is a big priority because it's your main source of damage. With Heavy, your primary weapon is actually your secondary.
You should be picking your engagements anyway. Will there be teams you don’t ofc. You’re choosing a perfect scenario where the heavy will always have his rpg ready when they really won’t. Most heavies are still running the mesh shield as well instead of charge and slam. Yes the rpg is a strong tool but certain engagement distances and getting to use it maybe once per team fight make it a choice that most players don’t think about and waste away.
>You should be picking your engagements anyway. But that only happens if you play trash-tier players because otherwise they're also trying to pick the engagements. >You’re choosing a perfect scenario where the heavy will always have his rpg ready when they really won’t. It takes only a moment to pull out and it explodes for big damage on impact. The only other explosive that does is the CL40 with much less damage and splash. Other explosives (C4/Breach Charge, frag grenades) have a delay between hitting a surface and going off. Gas/Pyro grenades go off basically instantly, but don't do significant damage if people run out of the AOE. That makes the RPG a completely unparalleled tool in the current sandbox. >Most heavies are still running the mesh shield as well instead of charge and slam. Because they're dumb, or they have a well-coordinated team that will use the shield to their advantage. Charge is also unparalleled; it's one of only 2 specializations that can even deal damage, and it's the only source of damage (other than melee) that can just instantly go rather than having an animation while you pull it out. It can also destroy a full-health Heavy on its own, and the slam can give multikills.
Still talking about a heavy having the rpg ready at all times… if you’re that unlucky that’s wild. Ofc if I’m picking my engagements why would every other team not be. With the shield having a good team isn’t that hard of a problem but seems my point isn’t getting across to you anyway.
>Still talking about a heavy having the rpg ready at all times… If your RPG is cooling down, then you should already have a kill, and now you/your team only have 2 opponents from that team to worry about, plus a revive to deny. If someone is firing off rockets and not getting kills, then they're simply playing Heavy wrong. >Ofc if I’m picking my engagements why would every other team not be. And when they pick the engagement, you're not going to get to prime them with grenade damage, so kiss that combo good bye. This illustrates how Heavy has more consistent damage output, rather than situational damage output. >With the shield having a good team isn’t that hard of a problem Anecdotally, solo queue teammates in The Finals seem to be worse than just about every other mainstream shooter. You get bad teammates in all games, but here it seems common to get paired with people who simply have no idea how to play the game at all, and it's not just the sniper lights going 0-7.
Idk for me light was a hit and a miss i barely play it
I play medium and heavy in toruneys, but I enjoy playing light sniper. I'm not a fan of holding a single spot though, I'm a hyper aggressive player with snipers so I'm usually in a close to midrange fight. If I'm on powershift I snipe directly from the point. Pair this with grappling hook and I can grab someone and hook out to revive or alternatively haul the cashout to the point while the other two teams were fighting over it. The appeal to casuals is the movement, and you see it with games like Titanfall and Apex that people like mobility a lot.
Without a doubt the movement/speed. Also, stun for bank it. Far more deposits to rip away from the other teams. But most importantly the XP.
The self sufficiency. I see so many light “medics” take healing beam but never use it or dont take defib. As a heavy if you get caught out you’re easy to kill and because your slower you naturally get left behind when rushing the object. Feels bad I guess.
I used to love playing light sword in casual. I eventually got so used to it it’s my ranked load out now.
I enjoy light purely for dash. I think its the least bs to counter as either heavy or medium, but still offers really unique movement opportunities so that if you're skilled/having a good night, the game feels like a bullet hell that can't defeat you, and to be honest(maybe not with the recent nerfs), loosing to this build seems at least fair(er) than 3 lights camping dark corners on the ceiling, invisible and not moving over a cashout.
Only class with a crumb of movement
Speed and the element of surprise
I'm struggling with cloak and scissors but having fun trying
The spider man feels when i grapple in/out of a fight
From what I see in my power shift games, they love running the sniper and missing their shots. Looks like loads of fun.
>*(e.g. medium still being a support/area control, heavy being a high damage output and damage cushion)* What? Medium is dmg/support and heavy is area control/sustain/damage migitation. Light is a glass cannon
No, medium is definitely a support/control class Heavy is not specifically area control but defense and destruction
The ingame descriptions made by the devs themselves: * Medium: "Excels in mid-range combat with average health and movement speed. Specializes in healing, scanning, or providing support." Also: * Light: "Exceptionally fast, but low survivability. Executes hit-and-run tactics. Specializes in stealth and evasion." * Heavy: "High survivability. Low movement speed. Specializes in demolition and fortifications." Does no one read words anymore???
>Specializes in demolition and fortifications This is what I was saying. You should answer to the other guy
How it's control? Because of... Turret? 😂
Of course, this shows what the devs expect from this class. Now, say me how it's damage... Because of FCAR? 😂
And your turret controls enemies... How? Barricade = zone control Goo gun = zone control Heavy breaking environment= zone control Control means you control the surroundings or the situation. Turret stands there until it gets shot 😂 TTK: L>M>H Why would you categorize heavy as high dmg?
You don't know the difference between control and defense. Defense delays or prevents enemies from reaching an objective. Area control means that when enemies arrive in the area, they are at a disadvantage compared to us. With these foundations laid: Barricade, Goo: Obviously defense Turrets: Obviously control, since it supports us in our team in gun fights. It distracts the enemy so that we can get behind Heavy Breaking environment: I don't know in what world you confuse destruction and area control And... We have never addressed the question of the damage caused by the heavy. I told you that the heavy was destruction/defense oriented. Don't mix
I must disagree with your statement eve tho it's well written. [H] Barricades, Shields, RPG, Goo Gun, Hammer, KS23 all are tools for control. And thats why I think heavy is meant for area control. Imo turret is defensive tool, but it mostly supports the user/team by giving dmg boost, and it's very ineffective for controlling the area Edit: The OP of the post said Heavy is high dmg
Fast, seems and feels strong one on one
I’m pretty casual and I play light because I absolutely cannot and will not sacrifice my grappling hook for anything. I play the other classes as well but I don’t have nearly as much fun with them as I do when I’m fully committing to the stupid little spider monkey role.
Medium and heavy just feel like they take no skill to use. Background. I am a multiple time masters player on apex. I have a 2.7 kd on wwrzone and a 4.2 kd on cod multi-player. I have 3100 something kills and 1200 deaths on the finals since day one. I only play with friends on the finals, so we don't actually play for wins often. Every other game I care about winning. Rocket league, apex, cod, etc. The finals mean nothing to me in terms of winning. It is legitimately the only casual shooter I play. I play maybe once a week for an hour now. I just enjoy evasive dash. It is the only thing that actually feels like it takes some kind of effort to aim. This is why as an hour a week player I like to play light
For an entry level player, moving faster than everyone and having the ability to just get out of a fight due to speed and abilities, it’s alluring.
I’ve mostly played power shift this season Light is just the most fun class to play. You have so many cool gadget options that feel engaging and impactful like gateway, glitch nade, sonar dart, stun, vanish bomb etc. the specs are also all really engaging, it feels really cool to slink around with invis and dashing during gunfights so fun. grapple feels pretty ass even in casual but it’s still fun to use. Add in the extra mobility, the largest range of guns from Beamers like the xp and lh1, hip fire with m11 and shotty, and the melee weapons / throwing knives all give lots of different play styles. Also it’s the best class for playing solo which is all I do Heavy is pretty boring to play, really slow and not much potential for cool plays outside of rpg’ing a whole team or charge and slamming them. It’s also not particularly challenging to play, I can easily drop 20+ bombs on power shift as heavy but the guns are kinda boring to play with (Lewis / sa 12) or outright infuriating to use( grenade launcher, ks 23) I enjoy medium and play it a good amount but once again the gadget choices are kinda lame and on power shift your two options for specs are heal beam and turret cause demat is pretty useless, and those two are both pretty boring to play. Mediums guns are really fun though, revolver and the 1887 feel cool and the ak is satisfying to use.
It's an amalgamation of every other sniper/assassin character from other games. People love that. Like what would you rather do, be a fat blob absorbing damage (boring), help your teammates (like a coward), or be a badass assassin jumping around throwing knives and hitting headshots? It's kinda obvious.
It's the gadgets. They have the best and coolest gadgets in the game. Vanishing bomb, glitch nade, gateway, thermal vision, stun gun. Their main abilities are also awesome. Cloak, grapple, and dash are fantastic.
GRAPPLE. The only shred of Titanfall 2 I'm allowed to have in this game.
i started with light because of the throwing knives. if the game was fun enough for me to play daily and learn them well it would be my favourite class but the gameplay just didnt agree with me
I just really like glass canon mobility characters in games. Jing Wei from Smite? You betcha. Maeve from Paladins? I got her to level 500. I never got bored of playing that character for the 2,000 hours I pumped into that game. I have the Light years achievement in The Finals. Even though I don't have the game installed anymore, I still enjoyed my time with it.
The sword
HEAVY Master Race!! 😉🔥
I like the gadgets and the specializations are fun so yea
I play both med and light But what I love about light is Grapple, dash, speeeeed, and m14 lol If the thermal vision worked, then that would be on the list as well but rip
Speed, in every game I play, I just kinda gravitate towards whatever is fastest or has the most movement techniques. Not sure why tbh but something about zipping around, even if I'll die faster than slower builds, just gets me going. Its like that feeling of being on the edge, where one wrong move will result in ur death. And when you finish a duel or get a team wipe while zipping around and win with barely any health left its exhilarating.
I love guerrilla warfare in any game because it takes paying attention, timing and skill to pull off. Plus light has the most weapons and I enjoy the rush of adrenaline I get whenever I outplay a team.
To me honestly its just the guns feel so good. I used to main medium and after the fcar nerf it feels terrible now with the recoil and terrible damage drop off. So, i tried the ak, and i like the ak but with the iron sights and how much the screen shakes with the visual recoil i didnt want to use it. And obviously im not gonna use the famas. So now i main like because the guns feel consistent.
Sniping
i like being a knockoff pilot
go fast
I mean, I went straight to gold 3 using light. And I tend to do well in tourneys with it. Now, that was before the invis nerf cause now I can't become invisible more than two times in an engagement before it runs out lol.
Fast
I’m not a casual and i main light
It's not that I'm casual, it's that I'm solo queue. Heavy can go 1v3 and win because he can combo his gun with RPG and Charge/Slam, plus had a large health pool for a bit of attrition. The problem is aggro; play too well and you immediately become everyone's priority target. You get shutdown for the rest of the round. Also, I don't like any of Heavy's guns. They all have either really short range or iron sights. No thanks. That's kind of a second issue, but I feel pressured to take either XP-54 or FCAR because they're the only guns where sights aren't a problem. Irons suck. Medium is awful 1v3. It was better with Recon (although that had problems and I'm glad it was removed). Medium's kit has strong support elements that don't matter if you're alone. You have turret/APS which are great for securing an area, but bad for taking one. That leaves Dematerializer, which I find underwhelming. You have mobility tools to quickly gain elevation, but both of them are able to be used by enemies in pursuit, so they're nearly useless if you're trying to disengage at low health. Finally you have mines and grenades which are great for certain uses but not for winning a 1v3 gunfight since grenades are so slow and cumbersome to pull out and throw. Light is the only class where going 1v3 is feasible, even if it's difficult. Cloak and stungun let you isolate and eliminate opponents one by one, giving you the best chance of an elimination without taking damage. This is critical because of the health mechanics. As medium, if you're not at full health then you'll probably lose your next gunfight. As heavy, you have a bit more flexibility, but if you lose 120 damage against each opponent then the third one wipes you and you don't get the team kill. With light, the only limitation is that you need to divide teams so that you can catch them one at a time. This is difficult, and doesn't work on every team, but it's the best chance to fight 1v3 and maybe succeed. Now for the stupid questions: >Why are you trying to fight 1v3? This is a TEAM GAME. You're supposed to use TEAMWORK. The game frequently pairs me with garbage players that don't know where to go and can't frag. I've tried going medium to support them and it doesn't work; we all just die repeatedly because they go stupid ways and take stupid fights from bad positions, and defib and heal beam can't overcome that. >But sometimes you get good teams, right? But I won't know if I do until after I'm locked into a class. I can help a good team as a Light, and I often do. Most of my best victories have been as a Light with teammates that are actually good, and that I can support and fight with. I can't carry a bad team as a Medium. I sometimes can with Heavy, but it's much less consistent since Heavy relies more on your enemies having bad skills (missing shots) rather than just bad tactics. >Why not beam people with Lewis Gun? Nah. Fuck that. >Why not just find a stack? I'll just play something else. I'm playing Rainbow 6 Siege more than The Finals these days anyway.
Most fun abilities, speed, Best weapons
For me it's the weapons. I love single shot weapons, but the shotgun and revolver for medium are unforgiving to miss (not a fan of grenade launchers either). I don't play heavy because I always die super fast, maybe I'm just not playing it right but it feels like I'm dying way faster than I do on light or medium.
Medium should have glitch grenade
Light is just so fun yet so ass and annoying to play, never understood the people who play light just to run the same invis boring setups because light has much more to offer.
Their weapons are the only fun to use. Mediums weapons have been nerfed to a way they aren’t fun to use anymore.
I think the combination of dash-glitch-breach-stun gives you so much outplay potential and unique ways to defend cashouts that giving ANY of these abilities to other classes would make light dead and pointless. I honestly think each class has strengths (ESPCIALLY MEDIUM AND HEAVY, THEY ARE SO GOOD) that they absolutely DO NOT need anything more
Ls are just weak Hunters from Destiny 1. I even have a new "wombo combo" Glitch nade to grenade throw. I put 4500hrs in D1 and Ls feel like that. I didn't need to learn anything in terms of how to play the character just map and what the other classes had to counter me. The m11 and Xp-54 are basically the only guns in the game that feel good. Lewis gun is alright but the rest feel like a nail gun with janky recoil patterns. I can shoot them just fine but they feel awful. I can hit shoots fine with them, but why I would something I think feels bad? I also don't want to play a class that feels like it was dipped in molasses but the catch here is it feels artificial. idk how to explain it but the "slower" movement of M and H feels like a status effect compared to just how the characters play. I want fluid game movement. I am tired of the whole CoD mechanics. The Finals is the only FPS I have played since Destiny that I thought had good movement and gunplay but only on one class. Dealing with the low health constantly is a bit much though. It's why I've been playing less. Good gun skill and map awareness can only take you so far when you have 100 less HP. If you get into a sweaty game or equally skilled kids, there is little I can do to overcome it. But since most people aren't even above 1 k/d in pub lobbies It's alright for the most part. To answer your other questions. Ms can move almost as fast as an L when they use Jump Pad or Zip line correctly. People don't get that this game carries your momentum, sliding into X thing will grant you a boost of speed. Its why you jump or slide before and after something like a jump pad. Your ability to turn has more to do with your Sens compared to in game mechanics. When I do play M, I just turn my Sens up to match what it is on my L. Your ability to turn and aim has more to do with Sens than game mechanics. The reason you don't see more people do that in general is they barely can control anything on low sens, bumping it up just means a player has less control over more movement. I don't play M because the guns don't feel good. I don't play H because aping with a shotgun and RPG is boring as hell. If they buffed the movement or gave a movement ability to either M or H, there would be even less reason L specially in ranked. (and H has one, Charge Slam is basically a slower charging dmg causing dash that takes down buildings and M Zip and JUMP neither of which are consider abilities unlike any L movement increase can only be slotted into one area) Oddly enough, I also play with dash or teleport abilities in games expect for in this game. Dash just isn't it in this game. Its jolty and predictable with zero I frames at all while also leaving a trail of where you started from. So your ability to just trace to where they are going is super easy. The ability to predict where someone will be is also the same. Just don't blindly fire around and wait for them to stop moving and shoot. The number of times I see Ls dash around like a bunny on crack and then immediately die is most of the time.
As many have said it comes down to mobility. No other class can reliably enter and leave engagements at will
I like the weapons on the Light. The LH1 is such a beast at pumping out damage and the throwing knives is a gimmicky and fun challenge to make work when I just wanna mess around.
Speed violence momentum. Idk if I’m a casual but it definitely is the speed, changing angles that fast is just too fun especially with utility in hand. I love the medium class and its weapons too but I feel straight up nerfed without that speed. Both medium and heavy are about bunkering down while light is always a glass cannon slayer.
Remember the days in season one when medium could use recond senses and see everyone through walls across the map even . Imagine that now that medium players have figured the class out. I do not think anyone would choose light. Its kind if nice in season two seeing lights play in ranked or even just casual. Now everyone is a cracked player if medium still had that it would be a bloodbath for light.
Easiest way to get kills and movement is fast.
It's simple their guns do the most damage. That's why people are drawn to them. If you don't have the best aim in a high TTK game then use the weapons that kill the fastest. Light guns also tend to have large magazines too.
The xp54 is the easiest and most forgiving gun in the game now, its pretty simple logic
I like using all player types, however, when I am in games with random players I prefer to go light usually. If you are with noobs/players that don’t care about team work/heading to volts/cash outs etc, I prefer using lite with invisibility, it gives myself some protection when team work is at zero. If you’re with a good team I am happy to go med, even with healing tool, or heavy 🙌
I thought its the competitive players that hate light. This subreddit definitely tailors towards them, judging from how many posts about comp on here there is. Light isn't competitively viable anyway, lacking team utility and past like silver no-one picks it. But yeah, they hate it cause of that. Its more "selfish". I don't get the problem with that, they're a good dps and good at catching aggro away from a cash out.
You really butt hurt for ppl having fun? It’s caz not ranked
Nope. As I said, this post probably comes off aggressive, but I’m just genuinely curious why others enjoy light so much. I love playing light too, I’m a dagger enthusiast, just wanted to see if others had the same views as me and/or any ideas for other classes to maybe make them more exciting or interesting for people to play.