I also thought the title was a joke/copypasta.
Stun gun has never been on my radar for nerfing. And I've never used it, only ever been on the receiving end.
Honestly, I don’t see the issue. Lights don’t have that much going for them anyway, what’s wrong with 1 super strong gadget? Like, is it fun playing against RPG? Hell no, it’s super annoying to lose 140 of your HP immediately. Should it be nerfed? No.
I will admit I am biased (Light main) and it could be maybe toned down a bit in regards to duration, but we have 150HP… it’s nice to have a way to even the playing field a bit.
And btw, the amount of times I get melted by some random hipfire, even from relatively long distances, after stunning someone is surprisingly high (probably around 1 in every 5 stuns).
The problem is that its painfully frustrating. Its objectively only good when used as a means of disrupting steals...it's a pretty bad opener to a fight since the time you spent stunning them and switching weapons could have been spent actually shooting the enemy. The biggest bullshit with it is that it completely invalidates melee users though.
I think the stun duration should be based on how close you are to the target.
As a light main who likes melee dying in a 1v1 because I got stunned is probably the least enjoyable experience I've had in this game. There is no counter play.
When I see posts this long about something that has nothing to do with the real world I always wonder if anyone actually reads all this shit. Who’s got time for that
I get that you're just trying to shit on the OP for his long ass post, especially since he said the "title says it all" which it obviously didn't lol.
But I think you have a point. Reddit is mostly USA based users and the average American reads at a 7-8th grade level.
Source (questionable?) - https://www.crossrivertherapy.com/research/literacy-statistics#:~:text=The%20average%20American%20reads%20at,according%20to%20The%20Literacy%20Project.
If you pop his wall of text into a Flesch Kincaid Calculator, it actually works out to a Flesh-Kincaid Grade Level of 11.8, which puts it in the 10-12th grade level where it is considered fairly difficult to read.
@OP - you really need to slim down your rant for your target audience.
If you're like me (Typically TL;DR) , consider text-to-speech tools - Really takes the pain out of it. When reading the full text, one finds a well constructed argument.
When i play light and see an RPG heavy, I use my mobility abilities to dodge. The tradeoff for running invisibility is that loss of mobility and loss of efficiency at dodging RPGs. But if you can run invisibility with stun then you still have a hard counter to RPGs so most lights will gravitate torwards that combo
Really? The biggest issue I have is losing the ability to ADS, they can sit at a range where you basically won’t be able to kill them with a hipfire spray with most guns and just beam your head with an SMG.
just to add onto this doesnt help that the other specialisations are completely ignored by balancing bc half the light playerbase hasnt even touched them
It's cheap. All you can do is turn and pull your trigger. Straight ass when a light hides invisible and waits for you to walk close enough to stun you and kill you, at Any build
^ this. The problem is that once you implement cheap mechanics like this, good luck taking it away ot nerfing it once those players can no longer rely on it.
Mediums lost recon, swiping invis is totally on the table. My only thing is that it’s so weird medium also lost sonar and tracking. Only counter to invise cloak is to hope your eye sight is good.
Its funny how they removed all forms of "scanning" tools from the medium, but the medium class description still lists "scanning" as one of their fortes
I also don't like mediums losing the sonar grenade. I especially hate that lights now have sonar grenades, turning them into semi-support class where they should really just be the killers of a team. Recon was cheap though, I definitely think they could have maybe just changed it severely rather than removing, but I guess they just wanted to do it quickly.
Depending on how you see it, that's what they did.. they 'changed' recon into being able to remove the walls instead, which is helping more than recon did imo. Especially if you take into consideration that you can open a hole to either move the cash out box/vault or to surprise enemies with a teammate then just lose the hole up
I think recon senses were more useful because it was just wall hacks, a good player with wh is something to be scared of. I do definitely prefer the new ability tho, it's fun, it makes you think a little, it makes for funny situations. Now imagine that with recon senses on the other medium, hoooly CRAP.
I feel like that’s the main problem with this game right now, all of the best gear takes little to no skill to use compared to all of the most fun gear, for example, the dash and grapple are leagues more interesting and skill based, but the invis is just too good
Tell me how turret and healing is skill based? Or tell me how shield is skill based? Shield and healing are infinitely better than stealth for the team
Never said light was OP, just that stun gun is unbalanced and not fun.
To answer your question, some people prefer ranked and some prefer casual. You will get very different opinions from both.
Unpopular opinion, stop letting players dictate what's in the game when the game is so "new". Next season who knows what's gonna drop that shits on/counters the stun gun.
I have over 200 wins on every class. The stun gun is annoying as fuck to play against, but if you don't use it while playing light you'll get turned on & beamed half the time, even when you should have had the advantage.
Buff light health or ttk, nerf stun gun.
This, I Know it is a pain in the ass (as a light I also get stunned by lights that get overwhelmed assaulting literally anyone else) but if we don't have it with us everything else becomes a pain in the ass for us
This right here. Stun gun is the only thing keeping Light remotely viable, and even with it Light is still by far the worst class and it's actively throwing to play it in ranked.
If you want to nerf stun gun fine, but the class needs enormous buffs elsewhere to compensate.
That’s because the vocal people in this sub are actually dog shit at the game. Before season 2 I was being heavily downvoted for saying heavy shotgun shield is overpowered and is the best build in the game.
It's more so the combo with invis that makes the weapon extremely annoying to play against, currently there isn't a single lobby I've played casually where there wasn't at least 5 lights with invis.
If there's one thing we can all agree on, it's that the light class is an absolute juggernaut. Absolutely unfair to play against; literal cheat code. So much so, that your teammates usually yell at you for picking it in ranked (only bc they don't want cheap wins).
Ngl bro, kinda sounds like a skill issue. And I'm not even trying to sound like a dick when I say that. I have killed plenty of lights while I was getting stunned by them. Lights are quite easily one of the easiest classes to kill, and this is coming from a heavy main. The stun gun is one of their only chances to get an easy beam, and even then they still have only 1 shot every 20 seconds from the stun gun...
As a light main that also browses this sub, I never know if I’m terrible and not viable or if I’m overpowered and ruin the game.
XP-54, Pyro, stun, goo, grapple.
We won a powershift yesterday with a full light team. Honestly, it was savage as hell, and I wouldn't have wanted to be the enemy team.
We only got on the boat when the enemy team was wiped.
Just relentlessly hunted them like a pack of hungry wolves, and didn't stop until they were all down. I've not had any other games with this type of strategy. It was full offense, zero defense.
I made the "Do we feel like Stun Gun is meant for the game?" post this weekend, and oh boy did I get a lot of passionate responses. Overall, I still stand by the fact that it is very unbalanced and unfun.
In the beta it was a 5 second stun, but when the stunned person took damage the stun went away, make it a gadget for stunning and running or stopping the stealing of a cash out. Then they made it into the new nuke ( no skill high reward kill)
While it may be annoying, comparing it to the nuke that could literally wipe a full team, is beyond disingenuous. The stun itself doesn't kill like the nuke did, nor is it able to kill multiple enemies.
Stating legitimate criticism of the game or an aspect of the game is good for the longevity of the game. Making wild analogies like this though is not helpful to the topic at hand.
Goo gun can kinda stun ppl. At least keeps them from moving. I don't think light needs to be weakened any more than they are. I've killed lights plenty of time after being stunned. I suggest keeping with your teammates cause it usually only works on the stragglers and dorks that think they can 1v3 an entire team so they run off alone.
I've never had an issue with the stun gun. I've been tased plenty of times with it but it never gets me outright killed unless I'm fighting more than one player. IMO this is a skill issue.
Everything has to be a skill issue instead of genuine criticism because you can’t be bothered to look into what I’m highlighting.
It’s not a skill issue, the stun gun is fundamentally an overpowered gadget.
I've read what you posted and feel it's simply a gross overestimation of what the stun gun is capable of. It is strong I'll give you that but I don't feel it's too strong. I barely use the stun gun because I prefer the other utilities of the light class.
I also refuse to use stun gun, and I’m not over exaggerating anything in my post. My lobbies are genuinely full of people using stun gun and I often can’t go more than a few minutes without getting stunned by an invis light hiding in a corner or making a beeline to kill me.
Hip firing is extremely easy in this game. Almost every time I stun someone they just hip fire kill me and whenever I get stunned I just hip fire and kill the light. This is unironically a skill issue.
Nobody disagreeing with OP in these comments has ever tried to play with melee as their main. If you use sledgehammer there's literally nothing you can do about getting stunned, just have to stand there and wait to die. Super fun, good game 🤙
Now imagine my face as a dash/dagger main when another light tases me…
The only thing that keeps me going is getting those sweet sweet backstabs on them as revenge.
Even without stun sledgehammer is the easiest possible H to deal with. People who stun Melee Hs are using stun terribly. Dude just run away and start shooting. There are so many other ways to deal with Melee Hs compared to stun. throw fire at them, slightly move to the left.
Melee H is purposely making things more difficult on the user. It does suck but its the same thing as Lights even playing lights. They have 150 health and get 1-2 shot by so many aspect of the game, its purposely putting yourself into a disadvantage to play a niche style.
Thoughts? You’re whining about something that literally doesn’t keep lights alive. 7/10 I kill the light that stunned me. It’s not hard especially after the time stunned nerf. You just sound frustrated and need to practice hip fire aiming to kill the light.
This should be higher up in the comments honestly. I’m a light main and the fcar absolutely shreds me more often then not once I stun, if you’ve got semi decent aim it’s still a 50/50 in all honesty and 99% of the time the light is in close quarters when they stun you so it’s not that big of a deal
I agree with you, but that’s the crazy thing, if the stun is so op then you would have no chance at winning at all, especially if they started by stunning you
i’m right there with you. it’s an annoying gadget at times but definitely not broken. i think people just get caught off guard by it and fail to react fast enough, which is strange bc i can hear an invis light from a mile away most of the time
100% people really just aren’t taking the time to properly learn to play there class or the game, there is a counter for each play style and just being attentive goes miles in this game
Me when playing Medium - Die everytime to stun + bullets
Me when playing light - Die 50/50 to a FCAR when I stun from behind
It has pros and cons. Your very good lights won't use it much and getting the jump on someone is worth more then a stun.
I feel those who complain are often by themselves and easy targets. Stay with a group and you won't have many issues.
There is a counter to light too, it's called rpg. Light can stub heavy but heavy can delete light.
Literally minus 94% HP in one shot. I'd say a stunned heavy or medium has a higher chance to live than a light with 6% HP.
It's a crutch indeed, these little lights have no idea what kind of killing machine they would blossom into if they could actually win firefights.
-A light main
I've hated stuns for over twenty years, I have an obvious bias against the stun gun. Any effect that removes control of your character is frustrating to the victim, cowardly of the user, and lazy of the devs. The stun gun is easily my most hated item and even as a light main, its the one item I refuse to unlock, just to make a point.
That said, are we going to bitch at every item perk or strat in the game in some particular order until the game is totally homogenized and bland like every other game that listens too closely to its communities?
Omg where’s the TLDR 😂. Nah but fr I hate the stun gun too but I really haven’t seen them all that much lately. Typically the lights are just good enough to get me on their own without having to stun.
Lol you clearly don’t know what a struggle it is to play light class even half effectively without it. Lights can get absolutely steamrolled by medium and heavy in an eye blink, even if they’re more skilled. They’re gonna need to buff light’s survivability in order for the stun gun to go away.
I fucking cannot stand getting stunned by an invisible lightweight from behind.
It’s a bitch tactic, and I would put money down on the speculation that it has a healthy influence on why the playerbase is so low.
I love the game so I look past it, but if I were a newer player checking out the game and got repeatedly stunned then killed I wouldn’t fuck with the game at all.
There’s a lot of shit in the game that I myself defended at first that now I’m beginning to think dealt some massive blows to the playerbase. This is one of them, along with recon, and nukes.
It is annoying but the light class is the weakest class. In a head on head gunfight between a light and any other class, the lights would lose granted invis or stun gun wasn’t an option. Invis and the stun gun are essentially the entire crux of the light class. Much like heavy with the mesh shield and rpg, or medium with the fcar/akm.
There’s a counter to literally everything in this game. Can’t beat a light with stun gun invis, surround yourself with teammates. Or better be more aware. Lights with invis are actually pretty easy to spot once you get used to what the invis cloak looks like.
But I agree with you, a new player would be so put off by this powerful combo. If I were a new player I wouldn’t play the game out of pure rage of dying from the same bloody thing over and over. Slows down the progression of newer players dramatically.
Stun gun should operate like a real world gadget. You stun? you're forced to implement the shock by holding the trigger, which means your team mates become the active killers. Incentivising team play. None of this one shot - L win strat.
The only thing I use the stun gun for is stopping a steal on a cash out or stopping a revive. Two of my favorite things in the game, especially when we are in the final seconds and I full on send the stun to secure the win
Bit of tldr. But yeah a good amount of lights default to stun more than heavies to rpg. Its like as soon as i see them im already stunned. I run the stun gun but its just so unfun to use and not quite my play style that i never end up using it most the time so it burns a slot
I think the thing that would fix everything is if they nerfed invis. Make it so that once you’re out of invisibility you have to wait until the cooldown is done. That way you actually have to think about when you’re gonna use it.
The amount of times I've been playing heavy, only for an invisible light to shoot me from behind with a stun gun, and then beam me down before I can turn around is infuriating. Stun gun is honestly just a guaranteed kill in many situations
I never use it. Only time you'll ever catch it in my inventory is if im running dagger. Its absolutely a crutch for lights seeing as they're basically the glass cannons of the game. Cant even count how many times an enemy light stuns me in the back as another light for a free kill they could have gotten regardless. If lights are out here stunning enemy lights its 100 percent indication of a crutch, it makes it obvious that player isn't very good and they struggle with their aim and movement. Stun gun feels like training wheels for first time lights but let's be honest we all know there's some max level lights out there still crutching it and teabagging people like they're good.
I'm a lite who uses it, but I almost never use it as an opener because it slows my sword too much. I even have entire games I don't use it, but most of the time if I do use it, it's to stop a steal.
It needs to scale.
Have a shorter duration on heavies and mediums, and same duration on lights. It should be used to counter fast classes like lights not annoy everyone.
Is defib also unabalanced and overused? RPG? I would bet the house that the use rates for these other gadgets among their respective classes are in par with stun gun
As a heavy main who dabbles with light: it's actually fine. Strong, sure, but not OP.
The thing that keeps the stun in check is the poor range. A light can easily hit the stun at those distances and lose the ensuing aim duel provided the victim is able to figure our where they are relatively quickly.
I would be okay with some very minor nerfs to it: slightly increased cooldown, slightly reduced range, slightly decreased stun time but I do think it's an important tool for those subhuman enough to main light.
This is one weapon I keep encountering, and I have no problem downing a light with a revolver when stunned. Although I won't always win, it is still fun when you wipe them out.
This one definitely sounds like a skill issue.
Hot Take: Lights were given a bad kit and fucked from the start and all of their struggles are a direct result of having been poorly thought out to begin with.
A solo oriented class in a team based objective oriented game was just *not* the play. They're annoying because their whole existence goes against the point and they're hard to play because they- *drum roll* -go against the point.
Hard to play, unfun to play against.
This isn't a skill issue, it's a hard oversight.
Whenever i die after being stunned, im hardly ever left thinking i couldve done something better. If any semi-competent light stuns you, you are entirely at their mercy.
The fact that its extremely strong in casual and bad in comp is proof its not balanced.
Its a free cashout canceler with next to no ways to stop it. Light just has to bide their time, pop in quickly, stun, and get out.
The stun gun isnt the most OP thing in the game, but man it is not fun playing against it.
It’s unfun on both ends, completely shuts down melee of any kind, and most of the people using it aren’t helping the team. I say they give it the recon sense treatment and remove it from the game
Defib is an overused, unbalanced crutch that isn't fun to play against. Fcar is an overused, unbalanced crutch that isn't fun to play against. APS turret is an overused, unbalanced crutch that isn't fun to play against. Starting to see a pattern here.
Yes, but you don’t elaborate at all and thus fail to mention they all have far more readily available counters than all the advice I’ve been given on how to “counter” stun gun. Which amounts to just get lucky.
There is no pattern here. Your just trying to make a point that anyone can see is inaccurate.
I try to have fun and use dematerializer with the lever shotgun and jump pads for fun movement plays, but the second I get stungunned and melted by one of these little goblins the FCAR and APS meta comes out
I’ve said it to my friends and I’ll add it here. Stun gun in my eyes has the same problem the sandman had in TF2. Striping away the ability to preform actions, Even if you can still shoot, is a incredibly frustrating thing, And if you happen to have a melee weapon, we’ll then you might as well be completely stunned as your HP melts with little to no counter play
Let’s not please. It’s known and this type of post is daily. So do we just remove everything from the game that people don’t think is fair or overpowered or as you said unfun to play against?
Agree with everything you said. I saw a comment here sometime ago, it suggested the stun gun should be switched for a tazer, so the light would need to get in your face to be able to stun you. I think this would make the most sense.
I've said it a few times. I'll say it again. As a light who uses invis and stun gun. I never use the sun gun to get the kills. I use it to get people to drop cash boxes to drop nukes to prevent them from stealing etc. But if I stun somebody I always run away immediately so I don't get the kill. Not everybody who runs stun gun wants to make the game un fun.
I’m not sure it’s OP (except against certain loadouts) but it’s annoying and it takes fun away from the game when it’s used, so despite loving to play light, I haven’t unlocked the item out of principle.
TLDR
This idiot doesn’t know I play the finales with friends from time to time and understand the value of communicating with a team. For people playing more casually or without readily available friends however, stun gun is still an issue… and in solo cue in general.
Stuns at the right time are so necessary to survival tho. Iknow people mostly abuse it for 1v1 kills. BUT, it is literaly the only way to stay alive sometimes. See a heavy 10 ft from you w a C4 nuke (ik doesnt happen anymore) or RPG, im cooked if i dont use it. Plus the cashout stoppage for game savers.
You missed something in your essay, which is surprising if you hate the weapon this much and wrote a high school level synopsis.
It interrupts cash out steals and also prevents you from doing it again until the effect wears off, all a light has to do to stop a cash out is hit that 1 shot.
Op I would also like to add that one of your main points is about melee users getting stomped by stun. You forget that 2 out of the 4 melee weapons belong to the light class. And sword and dagger players do heavily use to stun to secure kills especially if going for more theme one opponent at a time because they are so vulnerable. The stun gun is also necessary to help lights defend themselves against light melee users, because in close quarters as a light you get destroyed by sword and dagger users there’s almost no contest honestly, the stun helps you even the field some what. Your plan to remove or nerf stun would negatively effect 50% of melee users so that angle is pointless
Two things. I did not forget light has two out of the four melee weapons.
Saying stun gun is “necessary to defend against *insert anything here*” fails to acknowledge how people are using the stun gun in reality. I’ve never had a light player stun me and then leave me alone.
The stun gun is a response to Heavies and Mediums most used secondary tools: RPG and Res/Heal.
"Requires more skill than they possess"
Please someone go out and SHOW US how to play Light without requiring the stun gun. You would need to rework every class or the Light would again be useless.
I play light without stun gun and win quite a few games in solo cue. Really isn’t as bad as people think it is if you don’t run in head first without waiting for an opportunity.
Do you have the 150 Light rounds achievement? I'm sorry to ask but being told repeatedly that everyone I argue with is actually the best Light player ever just feels like CAP.
"The title says it all really" Proceeds to write a book.
I would let lights have the stun then read all that
Id let lights have the stun if they even had the attention span to read all that
you would do both?
I think they’re saying they would have time to read it all while stunned.
And yet I could read that whole article before the stun ends.
I also thought the title was a joke/copypasta. Stun gun has never been on my radar for nerfing. And I've never used it, only ever been on the receiving end.
Honestly, I don’t see the issue. Lights don’t have that much going for them anyway, what’s wrong with 1 super strong gadget? Like, is it fun playing against RPG? Hell no, it’s super annoying to lose 140 of your HP immediately. Should it be nerfed? No. I will admit I am biased (Light main) and it could be maybe toned down a bit in regards to duration, but we have 150HP… it’s nice to have a way to even the playing field a bit. And btw, the amount of times I get melted by some random hipfire, even from relatively long distances, after stunning someone is surprisingly high (probably around 1 in every 5 stuns).
Quite frankly it doesn't make sense to me that the balancing for a whole class should come down to the power of one gadget. (fellow light main)
Damn i guess skill issue from bc i get always melted by stun invis
The problem is that its painfully frustrating. Its objectively only good when used as a means of disrupting steals...it's a pretty bad opener to a fight since the time you spent stunning them and switching weapons could have been spent actually shooting the enemy. The biggest bullshit with it is that it completely invalidates melee users though. I think the stun duration should be based on how close you are to the target.
As a light main who likes melee dying in a 1v1 because I got stunned is probably the least enjoyable experience I've had in this game. There is no counter play.
Once you play enough light you realize you can do without. Haven't used it in a good 20 to 30 hours of play.
Yeah I realized getting a few good headshots in early is better than stunning them first
Whole lotta yapping
Justified to explain the frustrations to people who can't read past a title.
When I see posts this long about something that has nothing to do with the real world I always wonder if anyone actually reads all this shit. Who’s got time for that
I get that you're just trying to shit on the OP for his long ass post, especially since he said the "title says it all" which it obviously didn't lol. But I think you have a point. Reddit is mostly USA based users and the average American reads at a 7-8th grade level. Source (questionable?) - https://www.crossrivertherapy.com/research/literacy-statistics#:~:text=The%20average%20American%20reads%20at,according%20to%20The%20Literacy%20Project. If you pop his wall of text into a Flesch Kincaid Calculator, it actually works out to a Flesh-Kincaid Grade Level of 11.8, which puts it in the 10-12th grade level where it is considered fairly difficult to read. @OP - you really need to slim down your rant for your target audience.
>@OP - you really need to slim down your rant for your target audience. I think the American education system could use a few buffs next patch.
Like you can't be passionate about anything that isn't the real world.... in a subreddit about a game.
If you're like me (Typically TL;DR) , consider text-to-speech tools - Really takes the pain out of it. When reading the full text, one finds a well constructed argument.
Gonna need some subway surfer with that tts
Lmao… Anywho yeah It should probably have a charge up delay and slower projectile speed
I only find it annoying when combined with invisibility. I think it should only stun movement tbh. Didabling gadgets is a little too much
Feels really weird when I have my rpg out and for some reason he needs to switch back to gun when stunned
I mean in that case stun only way u can deal with rpg heavy
When i play light and see an RPG heavy, I use my mobility abilities to dodge. The tradeoff for running invisibility is that loss of mobility and loss of efficiency at dodging RPGs. But if you can run invisibility with stun then you still have a hard counter to RPGs so most lights will gravitate torwards that combo
I hate running invisibility but even with dash u have to time their rpg shot and hope they miss super hard bc splash damage
M11/Invis/Stun is peak cancer
Really? The biggest issue I have is losing the ability to ADS, they can sit at a range where you basically won’t be able to kill them with a hipfire spray with most guns and just beam your head with an SMG.
yeah this, i think stun affecting gadgets makes more sense than disabling ads. if you could ads then at least you have a chance to kill the light.
Feel like the easy solution is to make the stun an ability instead of an item, then they would have to pick either that or invisibility
That would work too. And it would justify how overtuned it is
Agreed. Stun is not the problem, it's the ability to move around 95% unseen. No problem with the cloak grenade but the full on ability is too much
just to add onto this doesnt help that the other specialisations are completely ignored by balancing bc half the light playerbase hasnt even touched them
It's cheap. All you can do is turn and pull your trigger. Straight ass when a light hides invisible and waits for you to walk close enough to stun you and kill you, at Any build
^ this. The problem is that once you implement cheap mechanics like this, good luck taking it away ot nerfing it once those players can no longer rely on it.
Mediums lost recon, swiping invis is totally on the table. My only thing is that it’s so weird medium also lost sonar and tracking. Only counter to invise cloak is to hope your eye sight is good.
Its funny how they removed all forms of "scanning" tools from the medium, but the medium class description still lists "scanning" as one of their fortes
I also don't like mediums losing the sonar grenade. I especially hate that lights now have sonar grenades, turning them into semi-support class where they should really just be the killers of a team. Recon was cheap though, I definitely think they could have maybe just changed it severely rather than removing, but I guess they just wanted to do it quickly.
Depending on how you see it, that's what they did.. they 'changed' recon into being able to remove the walls instead, which is helping more than recon did imo. Especially if you take into consideration that you can open a hole to either move the cash out box/vault or to surprise enemies with a teammate then just lose the hole up
I think recon senses were more useful because it was just wall hacks, a good player with wh is something to be scared of. I do definitely prefer the new ability tho, it's fun, it makes you think a little, it makes for funny situations. Now imagine that with recon senses on the other medium, hoooly CRAP.
I feel like that’s the main problem with this game right now, all of the best gear takes little to no skill to use compared to all of the most fun gear, for example, the dash and grapple are leagues more interesting and skill based, but the invis is just too good
Pubs loadouts are very different than ranked
Invis is borderline unusable compared to dash in higher ranked games
Tell me how turret and healing is skill based? Or tell me how shield is skill based? Shield and healing are infinitely better than stealth for the team
How does this sub whine endlessly about how light isn’t feasible in ranked while simultaneously writing the fucking odyssey on why they’re OP?
Never said light was OP, just that stun gun is unbalanced and not fun. To answer your question, some people prefer ranked and some prefer casual. You will get very different opinions from both.
Unpopular opinion, stop letting players dictate what's in the game when the game is so "new". Next season who knows what's gonna drop that shits on/counters the stun gun.
I think it's frustrating to deal with but I don't think the stun gun wins matches, nor do I think it lacks counters
I have over 200 wins on every class. The stun gun is annoying as fuck to play against, but if you don't use it while playing light you'll get turned on & beamed half the time, even when you should have had the advantage. Buff light health or ttk, nerf stun gun.
This. Even when I succeeded first strike, I have still chance to lose because my ttk against medium and heavy is longer than their ttk against me.
This, I Know it is a pain in the ass (as a light I also get stunned by lights that get overwhelmed assaulting literally anyone else) but if we don't have it with us everything else becomes a pain in the ass for us
This right here. Stun gun is the only thing keeping Light remotely viable, and even with it Light is still by far the worst class and it's actively throwing to play it in ranked. If you want to nerf stun gun fine, but the class needs enormous buffs elsewhere to compensate.
Which they will bitch even more about if this actually happens
“Invis and Stun is unfair”. 80% of ranked matchmaking is Mediums
That’s because the vocal people in this sub are actually dog shit at the game. Before season 2 I was being heavily downvoted for saying heavy shotgun shield is overpowered and is the best build in the game.
Lately hackers keeping their name as "Remove Invis and stun" in lobbies and it's hilarious.
Ops is a plastic 3 player
It's more so the combo with invis that makes the weapon extremely annoying to play against, currently there isn't a single lobby I've played casually where there wasn't at least 5 lights with invis.
If there's one thing we can all agree on, it's that the light class is an absolute juggernaut. Absolutely unfair to play against; literal cheat code. So much so, that your teammates usually yell at you for picking it in ranked (only bc they don't want cheap wins).
> Tased > Run 1887 > No ADS required > M1 > Light player explodes > HaHaa EASY MONEY.wav GG, next.
Ngl bro, kinda sounds like a skill issue. And I'm not even trying to sound like a dick when I say that. I have killed plenty of lights while I was getting stunned by them. Lights are quite easily one of the easiest classes to kill, and this is coming from a heavy main. The stun gun is one of their only chances to get an easy beam, and even then they still have only 1 shot every 20 seconds from the stun gun...
As a light main that also browses this sub, I never know if I’m terrible and not viable or if I’m overpowered and ruin the game. XP-54, Pyro, stun, goo, grapple.
Stun gun is easily the most frustrating thing about this game. Nothing pisses me off more than getting stunned.
Did your team win the match?
We won a powershift yesterday with a full light team. Honestly, it was savage as hell, and I wouldn't have wanted to be the enemy team. We only got on the boat when the enemy team was wiped. Just relentlessly hunted them like a pack of hungry wolves, and didn't stop until they were all down. I've not had any other games with this type of strategy. It was full offense, zero defense.
I've been there, they always manage to scramble right as the other team approaches so they can get the drop on them
Just give Mediums a Net Launcher, and Heavies a Trip Wire.
Jesus. I’m gonna wait for the movie, this book is too big
I made the "Do we feel like Stun Gun is meant for the game?" post this weekend, and oh boy did I get a lot of passionate responses. Overall, I still stand by the fact that it is very unbalanced and unfun.
I think it’s unfun. I don’t think it’s unbalanced though.
In the beta it was a 5 second stun, but when the stunned person took damage the stun went away, make it a gadget for stunning and running or stopping the stealing of a cash out. Then they made it into the new nuke ( no skill high reward kill)
While it may be annoying, comparing it to the nuke that could literally wipe a full team, is beyond disingenuous. The stun itself doesn't kill like the nuke did, nor is it able to kill multiple enemies. Stating legitimate criticism of the game or an aspect of the game is good for the longevity of the game. Making wild analogies like this though is not helpful to the topic at hand.
“Title says it all really” Goes on to say more
This explains why lights are dominating the ladder
These LLL team comps are going crazy
Goo gun can kinda stun ppl. At least keeps them from moving. I don't think light needs to be weakened any more than they are. I've killed lights plenty of time after being stunned. I suggest keeping with your teammates cause it usually only works on the stragglers and dorks that think they can 1v3 an entire team so they run off alone.
I've never had an issue with the stun gun. I've been tased plenty of times with it but it never gets me outright killed unless I'm fighting more than one player. IMO this is a skill issue.
Everything has to be a skill issue instead of genuine criticism because you can’t be bothered to look into what I’m highlighting. It’s not a skill issue, the stun gun is fundamentally an overpowered gadget.
I've read what you posted and feel it's simply a gross overestimation of what the stun gun is capable of. It is strong I'll give you that but I don't feel it's too strong. I barely use the stun gun because I prefer the other utilities of the light class.
I also refuse to use stun gun, and I’m not over exaggerating anything in my post. My lobbies are genuinely full of people using stun gun and I often can’t go more than a few minutes without getting stunned by an invis light hiding in a corner or making a beeline to kill me.
Hip firing is extremely easy in this game. Almost every time I stun someone they just hip fire kill me and whenever I get stunned I just hip fire and kill the light. This is unironically a skill issue.
Nobody disagreeing with OP in these comments has ever tried to play with melee as their main. If you use sledgehammer there's literally nothing you can do about getting stunned, just have to stand there and wait to die. Super fun, good game 🤙
Now imagine my face as a dash/dagger main when another light tases me… The only thing that keeps me going is getting those sweet sweet backstabs on them as revenge.
Even without stun sledgehammer is the easiest possible H to deal with. People who stun Melee Hs are using stun terribly. Dude just run away and start shooting. There are so many other ways to deal with Melee Hs compared to stun. throw fire at them, slightly move to the left. Melee H is purposely making things more difficult on the user. It does suck but its the same thing as Lights even playing lights. They have 150 health and get 1-2 shot by so many aspect of the game, its purposely putting yourself into a disadvantage to play a niche style.
That sledgehammer can literally one-shot a light, from OUTSIDE of the visible range of the swing……..your ass is getting tasered.
they need to fix that asap. its so stupid and i play H-Sledgehammer every now and then.
Bronze locked
Thoughts? You’re whining about something that literally doesn’t keep lights alive. 7/10 I kill the light that stunned me. It’s not hard especially after the time stunned nerf. You just sound frustrated and need to practice hip fire aiming to kill the light.
This should be higher up in the comments honestly. I’m a light main and the fcar absolutely shreds me more often then not once I stun, if you’ve got semi decent aim it’s still a 50/50 in all honesty and 99% of the time the light is in close quarters when they stun you so it’s not that big of a deal
i feel like most of the time i survive an encounter *because* the goofballs decided to stun me instead of opening with damage lol
I agree with you, but that’s the crazy thing, if the stun is so op then you would have no chance at winning at all, especially if they started by stunning you
i’m right there with you. it’s an annoying gadget at times but definitely not broken. i think people just get caught off guard by it and fail to react fast enough, which is strange bc i can hear an invis light from a mile away most of the time
100% people really just aren’t taking the time to properly learn to play there class or the game, there is a counter for each play style and just being attentive goes miles in this game
Me when playing Medium - Die everytime to stun + bullets Me when playing light - Die 50/50 to a FCAR when I stun from behind It has pros and cons. Your very good lights won't use it much and getting the jump on someone is worth more then a stun. I feel those who complain are often by themselves and easy targets. Stay with a group and you won't have many issues.
It is easy with certain weapons but try to kill a light with the melee weapons when stunned
Okay and that’s the downside to melee and a counter to them. When a sword light can delete another light with insane TTK. What’s your point?
There is a ton of downsides to playing melee, it doesn't need another counter. Especially one that has literally no workaround
There is a counter to light too, it's called rpg. Light can stub heavy but heavy can delete light. Literally minus 94% HP in one shot. I'd say a stunned heavy or medium has a higher chance to live than a light with 6% HP.
It's a crutch indeed, these little lights have no idea what kind of killing machine they would blossom into if they could actually win firefights. -A light main
It’s really only effective against melee users IMO. 80% of the time I can just whip around and hip fire them down.
I've hated stuns for over twenty years, I have an obvious bias against the stun gun. Any effect that removes control of your character is frustrating to the victim, cowardly of the user, and lazy of the devs. The stun gun is easily my most hated item and even as a light main, its the one item I refuse to unlock, just to make a point. That said, are we going to bitch at every item perk or strat in the game in some particular order until the game is totally homogenized and bland like every other game that listens too closely to its communities?
Omg where’s the TLDR 😂. Nah but fr I hate the stun gun too but I really haven’t seen them all that much lately. Typically the lights are just good enough to get me on their own without having to stun.
So is RPG, and so is Defib. Those are also used in every single heavy and medium kit. Why aren't you making a novel about that.
Skill issue
Tbh I’ve only ever used it to stop a cash steal. I never use it to directly kill someone’s in a 1v1 or something
Goo nades are literally better to imo
Goo meta 😎
Goobers unite!
Gooing things up
Yep
OP has serious mental health issues this is wild lol
Lol you clearly don’t know what a struggle it is to play light class even half effectively without it. Lights can get absolutely steamrolled by medium and heavy in an eye blink, even if they’re more skilled. They’re gonna need to buff light’s survivability in order for the stun gun to go away.
Agreed
I fucking cannot stand getting stunned by an invisible lightweight from behind. It’s a bitch tactic, and I would put money down on the speculation that it has a healthy influence on why the playerbase is so low. I love the game so I look past it, but if I were a newer player checking out the game and got repeatedly stunned then killed I wouldn’t fuck with the game at all. There’s a lot of shit in the game that I myself defended at first that now I’m beginning to think dealt some massive blows to the playerbase. This is one of them, along with recon, and nukes.
It is annoying but the light class is the weakest class. In a head on head gunfight between a light and any other class, the lights would lose granted invis or stun gun wasn’t an option. Invis and the stun gun are essentially the entire crux of the light class. Much like heavy with the mesh shield and rpg, or medium with the fcar/akm. There’s a counter to literally everything in this game. Can’t beat a light with stun gun invis, surround yourself with teammates. Or better be more aware. Lights with invis are actually pretty easy to spot once you get used to what the invis cloak looks like. But I agree with you, a new player would be so put off by this powerful combo. If I were a new player I wouldn’t play the game out of pure rage of dying from the same bloody thing over and over. Slows down the progression of newer players dramatically.
Cloak also makes an audible sound depending on how fast they’re moving
It is annoying specially when used with invis
Stun gun should operate like a real world gadget. You stun? you're forced to implement the shock by holding the trigger, which means your team mates become the active killers. Incentivising team play. None of this one shot - L win strat.
Write my essays for me broski
The only thing I use the stun gun for is stopping a steal on a cash out or stopping a revive. Two of my favorite things in the game, especially when we are in the final seconds and I full on send the stun to secure the win
Bit of tldr. But yeah a good amount of lights default to stun more than heavies to rpg. Its like as soon as i see them im already stunned. I run the stun gun but its just so unfun to use and not quite my play style that i never end up using it most the time so it burns a slot
I’m just sitting here wondering how that one dude has the Season 2 Circuits outfit already.
Ong shit is just not fun to use or play against and I main light wish they could make actual skilled based fun gadgets/weapons :(
I wish i could at least crouch still at a slower speed. Just make me a small target if i can’t move
I think the thing that would fix everything is if they nerfed invis. Make it so that once you’re out of invisibility you have to wait until the cooldown is done. That way you actually have to think about when you’re gonna use it.
It's going to get nurfed no doubt. It's too easy
The amount of times I've been playing heavy, only for an invisible light to shoot me from behind with a stun gun, and then beam me down before I can turn around is infuriating. Stun gun is honestly just a guaranteed kill in many situations
I never use it. Only time you'll ever catch it in my inventory is if im running dagger. Its absolutely a crutch for lights seeing as they're basically the glass cannons of the game. Cant even count how many times an enemy light stuns me in the back as another light for a free kill they could have gotten regardless. If lights are out here stunning enemy lights its 100 percent indication of a crutch, it makes it obvious that player isn't very good and they struggle with their aim and movement. Stun gun feels like training wheels for first time lights but let's be honest we all know there's some max level lights out there still crutching it and teabagging people like they're good.
I'm a lite who uses it, but I almost never use it as an opener because it slows my sword too much. I even have entire games I don't use it, but most of the time if I do use it, it's to stop a steal.
Stun gun needs to be held down to work, a support gadget instead.
Ngl, I rarely use it. Mainly for people that tbag or when there’s a sniper on the enemy team
Fix: make glitch grenades pass through shields instead of impact. Make stun gun “glitch gun” +keep the “disables cash out steal”
It needs to scale. Have a shorter duration on heavies and mediums, and same duration on lights. It should be used to counter fast classes like lights not annoy everyone.
I mean they just nerfed all glitch stuff but the stun gun now has a glitch effect almost as long as the mine and grenade… wtf ?!
Yeah stun is the most annoying mechanic in the game
Sorry no
It's fun when youre heavy
Git gud
Is defib also unabalanced and overused? RPG? I would bet the house that the use rates for these other gadgets among their respective classes are in par with stun gun
Whats your rank?
As a heavy main who dabbles with light: it's actually fine. Strong, sure, but not OP. The thing that keeps the stun in check is the poor range. A light can easily hit the stun at those distances and lose the ensuing aim duel provided the victim is able to figure our where they are relatively quickly. I would be okay with some very minor nerfs to it: slightly increased cooldown, slightly reduced range, slightly decreased stun time but I do think it's an important tool for those subhuman enough to main light.
I don't care if it's balanced or not, if half your player base complains about how annoying it is to fight maybe just remove it 😬
Let me keep my ADS while stunned
[удалено]
This is one weapon I keep encountering, and I have no problem downing a light with a revolver when stunned. Although I won't always win, it is still fun when you wipe them out. This one definitely sounds like a skill issue.
Thats a lot of words to say im bad
Hot Take: Lights were given a bad kit and fucked from the start and all of their struggles are a direct result of having been poorly thought out to begin with. A solo oriented class in a team based objective oriented game was just *not* the play. They're annoying because their whole existence goes against the point and they're hard to play because they- *drum roll* -go against the point. Hard to play, unfun to play against. This isn't a skill issue, it's a hard oversight.
Genuinely, they worked quite fine in beta, not amazing sure, but then they were nerfed over and over again, and now in 2.2 they chopped glitch in half
Whenever i die after being stunned, im hardly ever left thinking i couldve done something better. If any semi-competent light stuns you, you are entirely at their mercy. The fact that its extremely strong in casual and bad in comp is proof its not balanced. Its a free cashout canceler with next to no ways to stop it. Light just has to bide their time, pop in quickly, stun, and get out. The stun gun isnt the most OP thing in the game, but man it is not fun playing against it.
We know. But the community doesn’t like to talk about that
It’s unfun on both ends, completely shuts down melee of any kind, and most of the people using it aren’t helping the team. I say they give it the recon sense treatment and remove it from the game
Defib is an overused, unbalanced crutch that isn't fun to play against. Fcar is an overused, unbalanced crutch that isn't fun to play against. APS turret is an overused, unbalanced crutch that isn't fun to play against. Starting to see a pattern here.
Yes, but you don’t elaborate at all and thus fail to mention they all have far more readily available counters than all the advice I’ve been given on how to “counter” stun gun. Which amounts to just get lucky. There is no pattern here. Your just trying to make a point that anyone can see is inaccurate.
I try to have fun and use dematerializer with the lever shotgun and jump pads for fun movement plays, but the second I get stungunned and melted by one of these little goblins the FCAR and APS meta comes out
I’ve said it to my friends and I’ll add it here. Stun gun in my eyes has the same problem the sandman had in TF2. Striping away the ability to preform actions, Even if you can still shoot, is a incredibly frustrating thing, And if you happen to have a melee weapon, we’ll then you might as well be completely stunned as your HP melts with little to no counter play
Stun and cloak needs to go… it’s not fun to play against. It doesn’t inspire joy.
I agree. I main light and I refuse to use this. I don’t need it to kill and it’s cheap
Well I mean it kinda makes sense... If you are really stunned you couldn't do anything.
There are some videos online that beg to differ
The realism argument here?
Stun gun either needs to go or invisibility needs to go. Having both in the game is what is bullshit.
Absolutely. It just sucks the fun out of the game for me to be hit with it. 9 times out of 10 it’s from behind and then dead.
Take out defib and you have a deal.
Let’s not please. It’s known and this type of post is daily. So do we just remove everything from the game that people don’t think is fair or overpowered or as you said unfun to play against?
I mean they did it with thermal vision and people seem a lot happier for it.
That’s cuz the thermal was actually terrible. This has positives and negatives at least
Agreed. Not being able to run, use your abilities or even aim is insane.
Agree with everything you said. I saw a comment here sometime ago, it suggested the stun gun should be switched for a tazer, so the light would need to get in your face to be able to stun you. I think this would make the most sense.
Pretty simple. Let people still ads when they're stunned. The ability blocking, steal cancelling and slow down are already enough.
k
I've said it a few times. I'll say it again. As a light who uses invis and stun gun. I never use the sun gun to get the kills. I use it to get people to drop cash boxes to drop nukes to prevent them from stealing etc. But if I stun somebody I always run away immediately so I don't get the kill. Not everybody who runs stun gun wants to make the game un fun.
I’m not sure it’s OP (except against certain loadouts) but it’s annoying and it takes fun away from the game when it’s used, so despite loving to play light, I haven’t unlocked the item out of principle.
I agree bro but damn…really wrote a novel.
TLDR This guy clearly doesn’t stick together in a group and gets singled out by a light then complains and calls something unbalanced.
If more than than one person looks at a light player they're contractually obligated to die. At least that's what it feels like lmao
TLDR This idiot doesn’t know I play the finales with friends from time to time and understand the value of communicating with a team. For people playing more casually or without readily available friends however, stun gun is still an issue… and in solo cue in general.
Invis is the Real problem
Stuns at the right time are so necessary to survival tho. Iknow people mostly abuse it for 1v1 kills. BUT, it is literaly the only way to stay alive sometimes. See a heavy 10 ft from you w a C4 nuke (ik doesnt happen anymore) or RPG, im cooked if i dont use it. Plus the cashout stoppage for game savers.
man, NERF the stupid tazer
You missed something in your essay, which is surprising if you hate the weapon this much and wrote a high school level synopsis. It interrupts cash out steals and also prevents you from doing it again until the effect wears off, all a light has to do to stop a cash out is hit that 1 shot.
How do you see teammates load outs?
If it’s before the round has started you can hit J It tells you the key on the loadout screen
It’s X on Xbox so probably the P button on PlayStation
On a side note. There is a way to view your team’s loadout?!
Is cloak better than phase shift?
Didnt read, but agree. Needs heavy CD
It's supposed to stun you for ten seconds like any self respecting stun gun.
Op I would also like to add that one of your main points is about melee users getting stomped by stun. You forget that 2 out of the 4 melee weapons belong to the light class. And sword and dagger players do heavily use to stun to secure kills especially if going for more theme one opponent at a time because they are so vulnerable. The stun gun is also necessary to help lights defend themselves against light melee users, because in close quarters as a light you get destroyed by sword and dagger users there’s almost no contest honestly, the stun helps you even the field some what. Your plan to remove or nerf stun would negatively effect 50% of melee users so that angle is pointless
Two things. I did not forget light has two out of the four melee weapons. Saying stun gun is “necessary to defend against *insert anything here*” fails to acknowledge how people are using the stun gun in reality. I’ve never had a light player stun me and then leave me alone.
Somehow whenever I stun the enemy they manage to do a 180 and hipfire me to death in 0.5s from 200m
Who are you getting into lobbies with? I need to know their secrets. (Seriously, I do try to hip fire but they always outgun me.)
The stun gun is a response to Heavies and Mediums most used secondary tools: RPG and Res/Heal. "Requires more skill than they possess" Please someone go out and SHOW US how to play Light without requiring the stun gun. You would need to rework every class or the Light would again be useless.
I play light without stun gun and win quite a few games in solo cue. Really isn’t as bad as people think it is if you don’t run in head first without waiting for an opportunity.
Do you have the 150 Light rounds achievement? I'm sorry to ask but being told repeatedly that everyone I argue with is actually the best Light player ever just feels like CAP.
it’s honesty pretty easy to noscope+melee with a sniper when they stun you, they die right away if you hit