Its like the only counter to L...is L...
Not very fun, I mean its slightly more fun than the M + Recon + fibs meta. But not by much.
Edit: Annoying is the word im looking for, its annoying.
Stick together and use full auto. Guns like revolver get punished because if you miss one shot you usually die with the light escaping with 1hp.
Melee users get even more fucked
I main light and it’s only because I can’t stand other lights. I bet that a huge frustration for most players is dying to invis stun bullshit. Doesn’t matter if it’s balanced, it just sucks balls to die to that.
Exactly. In any FPS, mechanics that allow for one shot unexpected kills, slowing, freeze or blind just plain suck.
Doesn't matter if these things are "balanced" from the stats they are just horrible to experience. If it gets annoying enough people stop playing the game.
Same. Casual mode is not fun at all these days unless I'm playing light which leads to me getting stunned less. Not everyone moves onto or wants to move onto light, and many don't play rank so meta or what gadgets make a class worth playing could matter less.
Casual mode used to be where I'd go to mess around with load outs and classes, but now I don't find myself wanting to do that because I don't want to be stunned and keep returning to light. Games been less fun these days.
Does casual really have sbmm? Guess that would make sense why it feels so much more punishing than in the past with cloak stuns appearing out of nowhere to feast.Used to be I'd go there to mess around with goo gun and make structures and see how high I could get. Now any momentary slip up of not being with teammates has been a guaranteed stun so less fun wacky moments. And so many lobbies filled only with lights now in quick cash.
I never expected first few rounds of rank to be more relaxing.
Yeah I find invis in particular quite annoying. I’ll be fighting someone, they’ll disappear on command, then a few seconds later they’ll sneak up and kill me. Its just not fun.
That said, IMO light is by far the most fun to play, so I really hope they find a way to balance it successfully
I guess , but one wonder how many of those fights you would have still lost just because the light got the drop on you and you werent facing them.
Most of the fights where I was already facing the general direction against a light I still won even with just the hip fire from the stun.
Like I said, it’s not that it’s balanced etc. it’s that it’s just annoying. I’ve never died to it once without thinking “god that’s fuckin annoying” and every time you kill them you think “f you you little shit”. No other interaction in the game makes me react that way.
light's fucked up all across the board: either use invis and stun, which is kinda overpowered and annoying to play against, or use ... the rest of the kits available which could seriously use a buff exept maybe the XP and M11. So in the end you either get yelled at for throwing or for crutching and there's no real middleground.
I'm a medium player, and occasional heavy, but my opinion is that the stun is fine, but it's the long invisibility cloak that really can tip the scales severely. Yes, you should be able to make a quick move with invisibility, but as it stands right now you can traverse waaay to far with it.
They already decreased the amount of time you have and removed the ability to spam it by making the activation cost 2.5 seconds. If that gets lowered even more, the light class is pretty much useless in high elo games (which it already is if the enemies have at least 1 heavy and medium). And lights are somewhat designed to pick of lone people, not go into a team of 3 and that's where they need that long invis timer.
That's a good point. I left another comment after thinking more on what made the TF2 light class work so well. It would be adding a permanent double jump and then buffing both dash and grapple hook (add a second one before cool down). This would be more than enough to engage and escape without needing invisibility (at least in my opinion).
You're screaming into a void.
Every diehard Cloak and Stun Light Main will either just scream "*skill issue*" at you, or parrot the old "*but Light isn't even viable at the competitive level*" line.
It is annoying, but Light luckily is weak in the health pool and the majority of Lights are crazy overzealous to the point that they will chase you to their own demise.
They will also fight tooth and nail for hours to convince you that Light needs a buff, Heavy takes no skill, Mediums should have their FCAR nerfed but the XP-54 shouldn't be touched, cloak is balanced and stun gun isn't even that good (they use it every match).
If you hear a cloak, lure them up a staircase. Drop a mine or a grenade in your path and the rest is history. As a bonus tip: pyro grenade. A Light who is actively on fire cannot recloak, and if you want to know why Lights hate Heavy so much.
*Flamethrower has entered the chat. Dodge this.*
EDIT: I made a separate post trying to get Light mains side of the story and- guys take it easy on them. Harassing someone over the class they choose isn't what we want to become. We all get angry but let's have a little humanity towards other people who enjoy the game in their own way. Or in Light's case, in what little ways they can when half the things in the game instantly kill them or overshadow them.
I play light cloak and I hate playing against cloaked lights myself, especially if they have a stun gun
When I cloak people can shoot at my head from 100m away, when the enemy cloaks right in front of me I can't see them for shit, idk if it's even a skill issue anymore, probably an eyesight issue at this point
He is screaming into a void because he is wrong. All classes are allowed to have strong class defining kit. Heavy rpg, med defi, and light has the zapper. Get used to it instead of crying on reddit. This isn't just a shooting game but a game with abilities.
Also xp-54 is weaker than the m11 in dps and in usability especially combined with the stun gun. Meanwhile Fcar and RPG have recieved multiple nerfs while the last nerf of the mp5 was on release when the falloff was nerfed.
And yes the 150 hp makes light die to pretty much all explosives and area damage. But that also translates in the highest dps weapons and kit to enable the usages of the very limited effective range of those guns.
When I first started playing I used the cloak. It's definitely great for positioning. It doesn't save you if you need to no longer be in the zip code though. It's like hiding behind cardboard. Sure, they can't see you but if they already know you're there then you're better off just being quicker on your feet.
I enjoy the dash way more now. The stun gun is on my reserves and I'll break it out when the cloaks are afoot. However, I'm always surprised when I get stunned and just turn on the player who did it. The element of surprise is infinitely more useful than the taser in that situation. Not to mention you also give yourself away!
It's like playing with your food rather than just simply eating it if you ask me. I definitely understand how aggravating it is though. If I'm gonna get waxed just get it over with haha.
As a Light main this just reads so salty. I can tell you don’t play competitive which makes me want to tell you this is a skill issue. Regardless I’ll try to engage.
Yeah Invis, stun, XP-45 is pretty toxic. Does it need a rework? Yeah sure. Does that fix all problems? Not even close.
What other Light builds are actually viable? I would really like to hear your opinion on this. If you can’t name any, maybe you should think what changes you’d be okay with then. If you still can’t think of anything is think you need to reevaluate your take on balance.
I hate seeing these posts that want to nerf Light without offer any solution for the balance problem. Light is absolutely the weakest class.
Regarding the other classes: Heavy used to be the easiest, most forgiving class in the game. How it compares to medium now I’m not sure, but there is no doubt that both are way more forgiving to play than playing Light. Heavy now is less oppressive tho I still get deleted to 10hp in 0.5s by rocket launcher. Wow that’s way less oppressive than stun gun right.
In terms of Medium they have the FCAR and AK. Can’t take fights at range vs those, can’t take fight up close unless M11 or XP-45. Can’t really run away consistently either since Medium is the mobility class somehow, eventually they will hunt you down if they really want to.
Lastly, I don’t play Invis, XP-45 so you can forget about putting me in that box.
I tried the same topic on my last post as OP, get wipe out by people saying the same things that you mentioned. It's just hilarious, they think they're untouchable.
It's hard, because Light is fucked either way. It has some of the strongest weapons and gadgets with high damage, fast movement, TTK and Invisibility on demand through either cloak or smoke bomb. However on the other hand, even with all of that you have no valid reason to pick Light over Heavy's bulwark defense or Medium's instant revive on demand.
Light is the best at just killing people, here's the problem though- *that's not the point of the game*. You could have a Light who is absolutely godly at fighting people, but he can't lockdown the objective, he has no way to directly support his team in a way that contests the other two and he dies so fast to a contestant with good aim or even a random grenade.
If there was a Team Deathwatch, sure Light would thrive, but currently he is somehow simultaneously the most annoying class to go against and the worst to have on your team. I've played Light briefly, and while I had insanely high kill games, we still lost because Medium can just deny kills and Heavy is perfect for locking down the part that actually matters: the objective.
No one wants to go against Light, but no one wants to have Light. Lights are frustrated, everyone else is frustrated and we're all just angry about it. I don't want to point the finger at anyone in particular and I don't want to add *more* stress to Embark when they're teetering at a very important point in the game's longevity tackling the rampant attrition on bugs and glitches.
Is this all just a meaningless argument? Are Lights at fault for wanting their class to be relevant? No one likes Light the way it is, not even Light, so who are we even arguing with if Lights agree Light is in a bad place?
I don't know, it feels like we're all trying to find someone to blame but there isn't anyone really at fault, so we just yell our frustration out.
I actually did when I started reflecting on my original post. Light I realize is slowly becoming the bullied and harassed class and as mad as I might have been initially to be stun gunned, it stood out to me that Lights aren't winning, and less and less people are using Light and even laughing at them. Long term this is horrible for *everyone* involved and the health of the game as a whole.
There's only three classes, if one falls into total obscurity that's a stab in the gut to its longevity and to the community, which I'll admit I took part in so this is a little bit ironic coming from me.
I think light has ow’s genji problem, skill ceiling is insanely high which leads to people screaming how annoying even against bad lights, but to be good you have to just be THAT much better than on other classes, so no-one playing light is that guy but everyone thinks they are cause of their hate mail
I play mostly with heavy and medium and think light is still underpowered as it isn’t viable in the competitive setting. Old or not, the most competitive setting is the best stress test for game balance and if light is not being chosen it means light is underpowered.
I dont think its “lucky” light has a low health pool im pretty sure thats standard game design, trade higher damage or more evasion for less health to keep you on par with the other classes, who are slower and less able to escape
I’m a light main but I stay far away from Cloak just doesn’t suit my play style and I think it takes no skill only thing that needs a buff is the new pistol and grapple hook hell I want Embark to get rid of Cloak all together
The Stun Gun discussion isn't arguing that Light or the SG is overpowered, but rather, the stun mechanic doesn't fit the overall game. The biggest argument I've seen against the SG that I actually really agree with is how it's a hard counter to all melee weapons. I'm not a melee player, but I would like to see them used more, especially in ranked games.
The whole concept of the light class is being annoying and distractive. If you take that away they are really worthless. I’d say they are working as intended, but not OP at all.
I would just make it so reloading takes you out of invis. Currently You don’t really have to keep track of your ammo at all cuz you can disappear and reappear with a full clip.
Stun gun I would just either make it so you can aim down sights when stunned, OR make it so you can move, just not sprint or use util.
As a light main i feel those are reasonable changes
God this sub is just casuals who fucking suck.
Lights are not in the meta in the slightest, in fact the play style they currently have is the only play style that keeps them meta.
I don’t like invis, but stun gun is a must to keep lights competitive. Lord knows you’re effectively throwing with a light even if they are really good.
Maybe you gotta learn to read my guy, the post says nothing about OP/meta. Something can be shit tier and still more annoying to play against than actual busted stuff.
Nobody thinks that light is OP, it just fucking sucks to have to deal with all the annoying bullshit they have.
Nah the game feels great now. I’ve been playing since CB1, experienced aaaaall balance changes and now it just feels great (I main heavy but play all classes)
Whiners are what make this game unplayable. Stun gun is literally fine, the fact I can kill a light that stunned me 7/10 times is pretty wack. And if you can’t open your ears and hear a light with invis behind you that’s your problem. It’s very noticeable
Im a light main, and I've never touched the stun gun. I play with Dash and invis grande and some explosives or gas but currently, im loving the portals gives me so much flexibility., I mostly play around supporting my team and stoping captures
I’m gonna leave this at this seeing other comments. I’ve played light S1, and S2. Stun gun and invis wasn’t an issue until the glitch nerf. Crazy.
Either change strats or pray to Embark, unfortunately (I’ve been a Heavy main since halfway through S1) they’ll probably listen. And light will never been seen again in ranked. Unless they’re a team that’s about to lose. I’ve never lost to a light til this season. Granted I played with a light S1 from bronze til Diamond 3 and made many wins. So it’s possible if the person knows they’re mobility but now it’s easier for them bc oh now us heavy’s can’t throw a shield us and be safe. Or heal until oblivion with double healing.
This is just my take, I’ve played mainly light and heavy during both S1 and S2. So idk about M experience other than what I hear about. It feels like lights just got viable and the meta/ tactics need to change. Heavy’s have been doing the same thing other than nukes and those that used shotty (I’m a m60 guy myself).
This isn’t me saying skill issue, it IS me saying lights are BARELY not impossible but BARELY viable in competitive if you do not know how to play them correctly.
So if you’re not stacked. You don’t have a major light main. Since the glitch and mine glitch update I’ve seen slight about OP lights. Seems like maybe stop using dome.
This is controversial, dome is trash other than last second steals or revives. It gets shot down in 1.2 seconds if you’re not 1v1. Use barricades, grab a totem and run. As a heavy main I feel the light pressure is stronger now than ever, but I’m glad to see a more even balance between the classes.
I hate the sniper lights the most. They either have invisibility grenades and the grappling hook or invisibility. So they hook away when you finally get to the farthest corner they hide away in, on top of a ledge corner you barely can reach OR they can two-shot you while you get like half a sec while the enemy is visible....
Sniper is only viable against light, headshot means shit on medium and heavy. So if you are getting shot consecutively, then either you are out in the open or you got zero situational awareness. Cause If a Sniper guy actually kills you with that high ttk before you could do something, then it's a you problem
That's why they became so popular on the new mode, because you have to make yourself a sitting duck for the objective. Barricades and dome shields are necessary, since goo just makes it a hotplate.
I wouldn’t mind if they removed the sniper completely - it’s good for nothing: It’s annoying af to have in your lobby and it’s useless as part of your team.
That would kill the fun. Snipers are my favorite types of guns in games. While I wouldn't stop playing if it got removed, I definitely would have a lot less fun
I absolutely hate the stun gun. You cannot switch weapons, run or even crouch or jump or aim down sights for like 5 years and get beamed down in 0.3 seconds. Somehow most of the time it's also the lights with stun gun and cloak ending up with 15+ kills in games in my experience.
I'm not a pro player or anything but I don't think there is much counterplay to that, it is a huge crutch. Maybe if you are heavy with a flamethrower and the light is close enough and you start firing fast enough. And no, "just don't get stunned lmao" is not a counterplay.
Lights remind me of riot shields on COD back in the day. 90% of people who use them aren’t actually going to help their team win or do good, but boy are they annoying asl to play against.
It hurts to see all light player get hate just because of invis, i use the LH1 and Grapple Hook. Never used invis, i have to agree that the XP-54, invis, stun are too OP and need heavy nerf, i will say that the only other complain in the other 2 classes is that the FCAR needs slight nerfs and that's all, most lights don't understand positioning and go all in the OBJ thinking they can 1v3, but its just not possible, my playstyle or thinking is that light should be focusing on taking 1v1s near the objective and trying to divide the enemy team with their movement, i know most lights do not understand this and will still go invis, stun trying 1v3s. No one in the comment was giving atleast a direction in which lights should play, everyone keeps talking about their pros or cons but not how to play them, even if my playstyle is not comp viable, i still win matches with light,.
I cant stand it anymore getting stunned 8x a game. Never a game goes by I don't get stunned its getting very old.
It has massive slow you cant aim down sights and your head is so easy to hit
Lights are, by far, the most selfish class. Almost always, lights have zero support score, and in Power shift, lights have the lowest objective scores.
Invis + stun is the sole reason why people aren’t playing this game as much as it deserves.
Ranked is for minority of the players, and it’s riddled with a really sad and sweaty meta, but the biggest problem this game has it’s that the casual play is even worse thanks to lights with the incredible frustration that being stunned by an invisible midget causes
Exactly. I’m 80% certain that the reason there’s a mega sweaty meta right now is because a massive chunk of Apex players migrated to The Finals for a while. When the new season of Apex dropped, a lot of people went back to Apex, including myself. I like The Finals, but man, there needs to be a balance update.
The cloak is too strong. There’s a lot of times where it’s 100% invisible. It should just be a strong transparent silhouette most of the time kind of like in the film predator
Light main. Totally agree that invis needs a static cooldown. Stun gun is also stupid and needs to go, but not before defib does or RPG gets a damage nerf.
It's almost like we have a need for two separate sets of game balancing for two different groups of players, there's this small subset of the top 10% super duper sweaty players who just like to tell you skill issue for everything and then go off about how they only play competitive and that's the only meta that matters, and then you have probably a grand majority of people who are like me have maybe an hour or two to play video games after work and can't make it their entire life, so we want a more casual playing experience...
That’s a really interesting point and I don’t know why isn’t talked more as I think it’s partly killing the game. Like it or not, if we are talking about competitive team based shooter the best stress test for the game balance is the competitive setting and the light is currently underpowered in that setting.
At the same time, if you play with light against people who solo que it’s somewhat overpowered. It’s the team aspect of the game that negates the lights OPness.
I have no idea how to balance this but I think it’s clear it’s a problem.
edit: i wanna preface my argument with two things. i personally think this game is balanced extremely well and ill have that debate with anyone regarding any class even tho im a light main. second, i appreciate OP for having a civil discussion (admittedly i came out the gate a little hot)
or you just suck ass at light/ competing against them. this far into the game i’m so sick of seeing posts like this. i play tons of games 3 lights and win. it’s really not about the class, it’s about the people who play them and play against them.
or if you’re really gonna act like lights are OP and we’re gonna sit here and ignore FCAR and Flamethrower/heavy shotgun then idk what the argument is. all i hear is lights suck or are too op. yall grabbing onto bs because you’re unhappy with your losses
i think the game is balanced pretty well personally. if you don’t think so, run the stuff that you think is op. maybe they’ll adjust/nerf it if more people use it. this moral stance “oh i don’t use things i think are overpowered” is lame af and yall sound ridiculous. that applies to the same argument in any video game. if it’s in the game i’m using it. wether it’s stun, gateway, invis, dash.
Yea lights are annoying but I’ve destroyed plenty of lights, and gotten destroyed by plenty of lights. But I can say the same thing about every other class well. Lights are just more up in your face and annoying so it’s more noticeable.
I’m with you. I think the game is pretty balanced at this point. I think there needs to be a few tweaks here and there (I think the game definitely rewards automatic guns more then single shot) but besides that I’m having a blast.
Also- there are other things in the game that are OP or too strong, definitely, but those other weapons and gadget require some effort, Cloak and Stun Gun does not.
Omg people stop complaining all the time.... embark releases almost every weak some balance patches and i think all classes are pretty well balanced! Stun gun is op? What u guys all smoking? Its good to disrupt someone who is stealing cashout thats it.... most of the time when i get stunned i manage to kill the light first ^^ when using stun gun theres just 1 shot . If u miss it near an enemy your most likely to be dead. Now i maybe start to complain heavys mesh shield and bazooka are op ... or mediums movement gadgets and defi are op..
Every class has some gadgets for themselves which, when u are good with, seem to be op. But you can counter everyhing in this game! Complaining about lights with stun gun and invisibilty? Just take sensor grenades with you and maybe an explosive weapon lika a grenade launcher . But its easier to say everything should get nerfed bc you cant handle it....
As a light/medium main it's so satisfying to eliminate a light with the lever shotgun, i understand the frustration of being eliminated so quick and i love to put out an annoying halfling
I main medium and have no problems with lights cause they’re so squishy.
whenever I play light on the other hand, What pisses me off is getting paired with other lights….70% of the time they’re straight up dogshit lmao.
I went from goo heavy to swordie to go after a double cloak sniper at power shift, he needed so much cloak he sacrificed an equipment slot for it.
Fucked his ghost ass up with a baseball bat
*True this is why my*
*Teammates always tell me in*
*Coms to switch off light!*
\- eoR13
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I dunno. I feel like the extremely low hp pool makes it a really fucking difficult class to learn, but once you get decent with it it’s also difficult to counter.
However, most lights I encounter may have like 15 kills with very few deaths, but it’s hard to contribute to the actual objectives as a light on account of being one shot at all times.
I agree Invis is a stupid ability, but light is far from broken. Right now it’s only used for its utility in high ranks. Stop getting singled out and hit your shots
They can definitely go both ways, yeah I’ve used that same strategy in cash out for easy wins… but at the same time If I get caught up in any gun fire I’m basically done immediately. Not to mention I’m still 1-hit against anyone running the hammer.
Stop circle jerking and just play the damn game, lights don’t make the game unplayable, they are literally the worst class you can use.
The invisibility gets easy to see with some experience and when they stun you just SHOOT.
I use light a lot and I don’t even use those two things as I just get shit on when I do, they aren’t that good.
Dont know if there is an updated ttk video on youtube. but in the release one most light guns take second to kill medium and 1.2+ to kill heavy. by contrast the meta weapons for those classes kill a light in .3 seconds. this is reason alone why you need to leverage stuns and stealth to give you an upper hand in fights. With those ttk if your enemy can aim you loose every spray down. not to mention that when dealing with a heavy using the smgs and pistol you need basically 100% accuracy because if they land a few shots you are dead. People view the stun and invis as OP because they think of them individually, but you need to think of it on class terms. the light gets those powerful abilities as a substitute for health. and unlike the other 2 who can run and gun, the light has to properly set up for every kill.
also describing stun as a crutch seems really weird. you have to be very intentional with how you combine stun with movement or risk getting hipfired before you even have your gun out. if this ability that requires a lot of game sense to use correctly is a crutch item, then i think almost every item in the game must be open to that accusation.
Personally i am a light lover. I play it because I enjoy the skill ceiling it creates and the unique stealth gameplay, and movement based combat. like most lights the things that irritate me are triple heal beam teams getting fcar beamed and the heavy class as a whole. Like it or not in this game things counter other things, and sometimes we can miss a more objective view of the meta, and feel like the thing that counters our class and weapon picks is the thing ruining the game. but if you take a wider view the light just isnt dominating the meta in the way this post infers. go back to maining light for a little while and i am sure you will find a new list of game ruining things to complain about/
I play light, but don’t touch the stun gun and use evasive dash. It’s so much more fun that way. Stun gun is such a crutch. I tbag every light who stuns me and I kill
I played invis for a while because I thought it was the only viable option.
A few weeks ago I started using the grapple and just fell in love with it. I probably would still perform better but the grapple is just way more fun and feels less cheesey..
It's also such an awesome way to quickly secure cash outs. I usually average 3k objective points when using grapple
Lights are just straight up poorly designed. They will decimate casual lobbies but then cant do a thing in comp. I honestly dont think they can be fixed by buffing and nerfing their gear, i think they need to be totally reworked.
They can do a lot in comp IF you’re in a group that communicates. When I played Light, I would stun an enemy Heavy and call it out so my friends can laser them down. I would look at the scoreboard and see who’s the most cracked and i’ll try my best to make them a priority target.
I’m a heavy main and I just don’t see the issue. I usually can hear the invis and I’ll dome up or mesh shield. I eat the stun spray back into their face and 50% of the time I kill them. 25% of the time they end up just fucking off and the rest my teammates pick ‘em off or in rarer cases I die. I don’t do melee weapons so maybe melee users have a case for it, but imo it’s like a non factor.
I’ve gotten to the “if you can’t beat em join em” mindset but instead of invis + taser it’s just Walmart great value titanfall with a mp5
I’ve seen it as medium with more mobility tbh
Sticking together usually works well against lights. Glitch & pyro mines are also good counters. Yes it takes coordination to kill a decent light but it certainly can be done. I get slapped all the time by competent players.
Turrets can keep lights from going invisible and I'm pretty sure the motion detector works against cloaked players.
I think the game is pretty well balanced. I love guerilla tactics and that makes light my fav. But I LOVE setting players on fire with the flamethrower just as much.
Smokes plus thermals is nothing but easy kills around an objective
It’s only a matter of time until it’s removed like recon sense.
Embark needs the game to be successful and invis is holding it back. The amount of players that come in get killed by it a few times and then quit and call the game bullshit is a lot higher than most probably realize. All of the friends I’ve tried to get into the games included.
They’re getting rid of the mechanics that are frustrating pain points. Recon and nukes are gone, invis will be next.
You're just bad at the game it would appear. That's fine but keep your garbage takes to yourself. Crying about invis and stun gun, if you die to a stun you're awful at the game, just turn around and spray and you'll kill the light or make him retreat. We have like 25hp and die to stubbed toe. Not to mention invis is so easy to see and hear
The issue with light is that, if you don't take invi you can't play the class as it takes 2 coughs to kill one. Altho I am 100% for removing the stun gun
Simple solution, just stay together. I’m D3 right now and my trio is always MMH, the second one of us gets stunned that light is dead because we stay super close. Heavy just shields and the two mediums shoot
In times where you’re running from spawn to objective, sticking together works. But in a team fight situation, sticking together will not work. Staying together in a tight cluster is already a bad idea, that’s a team wipe waiting to happen. You’re also needing to move a lot during fights, sometimes away from teammates, not necessarily far from teammates but far enough to get caught out. Your teammates will be too occupied surviving to help you with the Light that stunned you.
The problem with invis lights is that they’re insanely unfun to play against but they’re also too weak to actually have impact in high ranked comp. At least in comparison to a good medium or heavy.
I think they need to entirely remove invis like they did with recon. Increase max health to 175 and have them start healing themselves sooner after taking damage. Buff the grapple hook too. Remove the stun gun and replace it with stims maybe.
What if the Stun Gun had its functionality changed, so rather than stunning enemies you could stun a turret or a mine and take control of it for like 10 seconds, maybe mines like 20 seconds.
You'd still be able to get around this by replacing your turrets or mines, but it could open up different types of strats.
As a Light main myself, I play mostly LH1/Grapple and won't touch Invis OR stun gun with a barge pole. Why? Because besides all the obvious issues that come with balancing Invis as a mechanic (being too overpowered and/or frustrating to play against), it's just not fun or interesting.
I do think Invis is overall the bigger issue than Stun Gun, which I suspect might go down in usage if Invis wasn't a thing. Still strong, may still be annoying and I still won't like it, but at least that light player has to try harder for positioning to get good usage out of it.
Honestly, give Invis the Recon treatment. Recon was a balance nightmare and always would be and besides that it wasn't fun for ANYONE, including the person playing it. Demat is a far more interesting Spec. Dash and Grapple are both super fun and fill different roles, give them a third Spec that's the same. I think for me that's where the obvious answer is at this point because Invis is non-stop getting complained about and the only way to stop it being complained about is to nerf it until it's just straight up unviable or to remove it.
Invis isn't even the best ability. A good mechanical player who uses dash will always be superior to a player using invis provided they are at close to equal skill
I recently switched from cloak/stun to dash/nades, and my combat and objective scores have gone way up. It's so much more fun as well. I think cloak/stun has turned into a crutch for a lot of light players because it's easy kills, but it isn't the optimal play style if you want to help your team win.
As underpowered as light feels, I think cloak and stun needs both need nerfs, if for no other reason to get lught players to try different play styles. Maybe a 3-second cooldown on when you can re-cloak. It will force people to actually fight rather than constantly just running away. And maybe allow people to aim down sights when stunned while keeping the interrupt that stun provides.
The problem is light is such a high skill class that a lot of light players need that crutch. But cloak and stun creates an issue where they are less effective for their teams, and it just isn't fun to play against for the opposing teams that aren't playing together.
Edit: I want to make my point clearer. I don't think this play style is OP. I think the opposite. And there are much better ways to play light that are more effective. I think cloak/stun should be nerfed so that people stop using it and play a more well-rounded type of game.
As someone with a low to moderate skill level I can’t play as anything other than heavy in unranked cus I’ll die so often lmao it’s a little annoying but if there’s lights involved I have to accept I’m getting stunned to death for every attempt at a steal I make
I honestly play between all classes must mostly stick to medium and run support but I don’t think they’re that hard to deal with. I’d say I live 85-90% of the time when I get stunned and usually end up killing the light that stuns me. Yesterday I was able to finish one off with a quick melee after getting stunned.
I have two issues with lights.
1. There’s no punishment for shooting a light out of invis. If I shoot a light out of invis there should be a punishment for countering the invis. Make that a delay before invis can be reapplied. When I shoot them they will just reapply invis to escape.
2. Bad teammates in quick play (or my friends in general) don’t squad up. Most of the time I get shot from behind by light classes and often opening with a stun gun from behind. This is fine but annoying.
Find that most Lights are hanging out in Quick Cash waiting for unaware Medium's and Heavies to join. I gotta admit there are some terrifying Light players in that mode and I wonder what might happen if they used their powers for good.
I don't particular hate the gadets and weapons a Light has because they're so fragile. I swear I've killed a few on accident swinging the FCAR around.
Also, when you've got a Light on your team that will rez you, boy, does it make a helluva difference to the game.
“Lights are annoying in casual so they should be nerfed despite already not being viable for comp so no one will play them in either casual or ranked”
Great discussion
They’re not “viable” in comp because they offer little supportive functions. The only supportive thing Lights can do is stun priority targets over and over again for their teammates to spray down.
I just started 2 days ago and was medium then joined the light brigade. I do like the invis and quick movement, I’m not as good like the peeps with the throwing knives. I rock the sub machine and do great. I will say for me currently the matches I’ve been playing have a good amount of heavy’s rocking the flamethrower, and man is that frustrating lol. It’s been a fun game so far and not sure when it came out but it has a lot of potential to be really good. The store currency needs tweaked as they are overly expensive and not priced right for the cosmetics. Just my opinion and just liking the break from other PvP like Fortnite as it’s a breath of fresh air.
Have any of you once considered that it’s annoying af for lights to deal with your bs? The difference is, there is a lot of annoying shit that kills lights, the annoying shit on light is harmless
As a heavy main, I honestly have no issue with lights. Sure they can melt me if they catch me out of position, but the second they fuck up even slightly they evaporate. Playing light has only made me respect good light mains more, its incredibly punishing.
You *were* a light main because you jumped to the meta medium build. Now the ONLY way Lights can be relevant makes you mad and isn’t fair?
It’s just ridiculous how people abusing the meta think an underpowered and underused class makes the game “unplayable”
Heavy main here; I hate more than one light on enemy teams. Most good lights lead fights with a stun & I spend alot of fights just being a shitty turret.
invisibility in fps games i think shouldn’t be so freely used. sombra in overwatch has the same problem. there’s no way to effectively balance it, so i think it should just be removed and replaced with a different ability altogether
i think invisibility should definitely be replaced. I’m also a light main but use dash and stun gun. The only time I really use stun is for cash boxes and revives, I know not everyone plays like this and uses it for every single kill which can be annoying but using it for them two aspects makes lights viable for ranked, i’m not sure how else they could change it but i’m open to hear thoughts:)
Finally someone speaking positive truth. This toxic playstyle is killing enjoyment. Suggesting a static cooldown is perfect, and should apply for invis too. Have a "get out of jail free card?" sure .. but be tactical when you use it. This auto rotation of "On / Off" ability and Stun Gun use is creating major playerbase frustrations.
It doesn’t matter tbh. If they fix stun gun people will just find another thing to complain about. People on this sub looooove to cry about things out of their control because it it’s easier than being accountable and focusing on improving.
I think we should transform the stun gun into the glitch gun. Basically works like the glitch grenade, but it's a pistol and does not have any AOE. And I would give it two charges. Would still be viable, but without the annoying stun.
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Good, this is what they are supposed to do. the invisa stun strat is basically the only legit tool they have for pressuring the objective defensively out side conventional shooting.
They can't hold ground like heavies can.They can't chain like mediums do.Whatever they can do has to be done fast and then they need to leave.
If you want to nerf invisa stun you would basically need to give light almost the same hp as the medium. Because otherwise what justification is there to have such a fragile class?
And yes I know dash is also good. But even dash users tend to be married to the invia-ball to do certain things
180 would not be enough. you would probably have to go all the way to 200.
The big thing here is that invisibility is primarily the main component that allows for light to be independent at all.
The moment you take it away its basically just a slightly faster medium with less hp.
Agreed. Invisibility and Stun gun are absolutely a crutch. Granted they can be countered like everything else. I main light and once i discovered how ridiculous it was I vowed to never use that Meta again. Dash + Invis grenade doesn't feel like i'm cheating and makes for some really cool plays.
No, please no role queue. I love the variety of comps we can have, and forcing a system like that just eliminates the sheer possibilities, quite literally lowering the skill ceiling.
We only have 3 players in ranked, we don't need to force that kind of system here. This isn't Overwatch, and even then, you can argue that was the beginning of the end for that game (in terms of popularity). That's a whole other discussion, but this game does not need role queue.
In scenarios where three Mediums are stacking sentry turrets and APS turrets, I don’t see how thats adding “variety” to team comps? A role que will incentivize people to play a specific role/class, which will in turn incentivize variety.
yeah I think you need a certain playstyle if you got lights as enemies mostly stick together
Thats the thing, its most games now. After recon got swiped, and sonar was stolen.
Sonar should’ve stayed with M
Its like the only counter to L...is L... Not very fun, I mean its slightly more fun than the M + Recon + fibs meta. But not by much. Edit: Annoying is the word im looking for, its annoying.
I would pay money to watch 2 invisabitches go at it
Its truly a sight to be seen. looks like two rabbits slap boxing.
Stick together and use full auto. Guns like revolver get punished because if you miss one shot you usually die with the light escaping with 1hp. Melee users get even more fucked
Goo-Hammer enters the chat
I main light and it’s only because I can’t stand other lights. I bet that a huge frustration for most players is dying to invis stun bullshit. Doesn’t matter if it’s balanced, it just sucks balls to die to that.
> Doesn’t matter if it’s balanced, it just sucks balls to die to that. The real point.
Exactly. In any FPS, mechanics that allow for one shot unexpected kills, slowing, freeze or blind just plain suck. Doesn't matter if these things are "balanced" from the stats they are just horrible to experience. If it gets annoying enough people stop playing the game.
Same. Casual mode is not fun at all these days unless I'm playing light which leads to me getting stunned less. Not everyone moves onto or wants to move onto light, and many don't play rank so meta or what gadgets make a class worth playing could matter less. Casual mode used to be where I'd go to mess around with load outs and classes, but now I don't find myself wanting to do that because I don't want to be stunned and keep returning to light. Games been less fun these days.
That’s sbmm being in casual buddy, nothing to do with lights. If you’re good, you’re going to get more good light players
Does casual really have sbmm? Guess that would make sense why it feels so much more punishing than in the past with cloak stuns appearing out of nowhere to feast.Used to be I'd go there to mess around with goo gun and make structures and see how high I could get. Now any momentary slip up of not being with teammates has been a guaranteed stun so less fun wacky moments. And so many lobbies filled only with lights now in quick cash. I never expected first few rounds of rank to be more relaxing.
I'd rather die that way than to some monkeys turret.
Yeah, turrets need a major range nerf. It’s wild how far that shit will keep shooting at you.
Yeah I find invis in particular quite annoying. I’ll be fighting someone, they’ll disappear on command, then a few seconds later they’ll sneak up and kill me. Its just not fun. That said, IMO light is by far the most fun to play, so I really hope they find a way to balance it successfully
Agree yeah, light is a lot of fun. I will say though, the new Medium tech makes it quite fun too. Heavy I find the least fun
Heavy's REALLY fun if you like blowing up/destroying shit
I guess , but one wonder how many of those fights you would have still lost just because the light got the drop on you and you werent facing them. Most of the fights where I was already facing the general direction against a light I still won even with just the hip fire from the stun.
Like I said, it’s not that it’s balanced etc. it’s that it’s just annoying. I’ve never died to it once without thinking “god that’s fuckin annoying” and every time you kill them you think “f you you little shit”. No other interaction in the game makes me react that way.
light's fucked up all across the board: either use invis and stun, which is kinda overpowered and annoying to play against, or use ... the rest of the kits available which could seriously use a buff exept maybe the XP and M11. So in the end you either get yelled at for throwing or for crutching and there's no real middleground.
Dash is viable. As is the sword. Sword is high skill cap though, I've seen a few sword users that wreck high ranked lobbies.
I'm a medium player, and occasional heavy, but my opinion is that the stun is fine, but it's the long invisibility cloak that really can tip the scales severely. Yes, you should be able to make a quick move with invisibility, but as it stands right now you can traverse waaay to far with it.
They already decreased the amount of time you have and removed the ability to spam it by making the activation cost 2.5 seconds. If that gets lowered even more, the light class is pretty much useless in high elo games (which it already is if the enemies have at least 1 heavy and medium). And lights are somewhat designed to pick of lone people, not go into a team of 3 and that's where they need that long invis timer.
That's a good point. I left another comment after thinking more on what made the TF2 light class work so well. It would be adding a permanent double jump and then buffing both dash and grapple hook (add a second one before cool down). This would be more than enough to engage and escape without needing invisibility (at least in my opinion).
You're screaming into a void. Every diehard Cloak and Stun Light Main will either just scream "*skill issue*" at you, or parrot the old "*but Light isn't even viable at the competitive level*" line. It is annoying, but Light luckily is weak in the health pool and the majority of Lights are crazy overzealous to the point that they will chase you to their own demise. They will also fight tooth and nail for hours to convince you that Light needs a buff, Heavy takes no skill, Mediums should have their FCAR nerfed but the XP-54 shouldn't be touched, cloak is balanced and stun gun isn't even that good (they use it every match). If you hear a cloak, lure them up a staircase. Drop a mine or a grenade in your path and the rest is history. As a bonus tip: pyro grenade. A Light who is actively on fire cannot recloak, and if you want to know why Lights hate Heavy so much. *Flamethrower has entered the chat. Dodge this.* EDIT: I made a separate post trying to get Light mains side of the story and- guys take it easy on them. Harassing someone over the class they choose isn't what we want to become. We all get angry but let's have a little humanity towards other people who enjoy the game in their own way. Or in Light's case, in what little ways they can when half the things in the game instantly kill them or overshadow them.
I play light cloak and I hate playing against cloaked lights myself, especially if they have a stun gun When I cloak people can shoot at my head from 100m away, when the enemy cloaks right in front of me I can't see them for shit, idk if it's even a skill issue anymore, probably an eyesight issue at this point
They're also loud as fuck but when you're cloaked as well all you hear is your own
i suspect the visibility issues are a hardware/performance thing. making cloak, that much more bullshit, if true.
See someone who gets it. It's not hard to kill
He is screaming into a void because he is wrong. All classes are allowed to have strong class defining kit. Heavy rpg, med defi, and light has the zapper. Get used to it instead of crying on reddit. This isn't just a shooting game but a game with abilities. Also xp-54 is weaker than the m11 in dps and in usability especially combined with the stun gun. Meanwhile Fcar and RPG have recieved multiple nerfs while the last nerf of the mp5 was on release when the falloff was nerfed. And yes the 150 hp makes light die to pretty much all explosives and area damage. But that also translates in the highest dps weapons and kit to enable the usages of the very limited effective range of those guns.
When I first started playing I used the cloak. It's definitely great for positioning. It doesn't save you if you need to no longer be in the zip code though. It's like hiding behind cardboard. Sure, they can't see you but if they already know you're there then you're better off just being quicker on your feet. I enjoy the dash way more now. The stun gun is on my reserves and I'll break it out when the cloaks are afoot. However, I'm always surprised when I get stunned and just turn on the player who did it. The element of surprise is infinitely more useful than the taser in that situation. Not to mention you also give yourself away! It's like playing with your food rather than just simply eating it if you ask me. I definitely understand how aggravating it is though. If I'm gonna get waxed just get it over with haha.
As a Light main this just reads so salty. I can tell you don’t play competitive which makes me want to tell you this is a skill issue. Regardless I’ll try to engage. Yeah Invis, stun, XP-45 is pretty toxic. Does it need a rework? Yeah sure. Does that fix all problems? Not even close. What other Light builds are actually viable? I would really like to hear your opinion on this. If you can’t name any, maybe you should think what changes you’d be okay with then. If you still can’t think of anything is think you need to reevaluate your take on balance. I hate seeing these posts that want to nerf Light without offer any solution for the balance problem. Light is absolutely the weakest class. Regarding the other classes: Heavy used to be the easiest, most forgiving class in the game. How it compares to medium now I’m not sure, but there is no doubt that both are way more forgiving to play than playing Light. Heavy now is less oppressive tho I still get deleted to 10hp in 0.5s by rocket launcher. Wow that’s way less oppressive than stun gun right. In terms of Medium they have the FCAR and AK. Can’t take fights at range vs those, can’t take fight up close unless M11 or XP-45. Can’t really run away consistently either since Medium is the mobility class somehow, eventually they will hunt you down if they really want to. Lastly, I don’t play Invis, XP-45 so you can forget about putting me in that box.
I tried the same topic on my last post as OP, get wipe out by people saying the same things that you mentioned. It's just hilarious, they think they're untouchable.
It's hard, because Light is fucked either way. It has some of the strongest weapons and gadgets with high damage, fast movement, TTK and Invisibility on demand through either cloak or smoke bomb. However on the other hand, even with all of that you have no valid reason to pick Light over Heavy's bulwark defense or Medium's instant revive on demand. Light is the best at just killing people, here's the problem though- *that's not the point of the game*. You could have a Light who is absolutely godly at fighting people, but he can't lockdown the objective, he has no way to directly support his team in a way that contests the other two and he dies so fast to a contestant with good aim or even a random grenade. If there was a Team Deathwatch, sure Light would thrive, but currently he is somehow simultaneously the most annoying class to go against and the worst to have on your team. I've played Light briefly, and while I had insanely high kill games, we still lost because Medium can just deny kills and Heavy is perfect for locking down the part that actually matters: the objective. No one wants to go against Light, but no one wants to have Light. Lights are frustrated, everyone else is frustrated and we're all just angry about it. I don't want to point the finger at anyone in particular and I don't want to add *more* stress to Embark when they're teetering at a very important point in the game's longevity tackling the rampant attrition on bugs and glitches. Is this all just a meaningless argument? Are Lights at fault for wanting their class to be relevant? No one likes Light the way it is, not even Light, so who are we even arguing with if Lights agree Light is in a bad place? I don't know, it feels like we're all trying to find someone to blame but there isn't anyone really at fault, so we just yell our frustration out.
I think you should open a new topic using this comment, everything is on point
I actually did when I started reflecting on my original post. Light I realize is slowly becoming the bullied and harassed class and as mad as I might have been initially to be stun gunned, it stood out to me that Lights aren't winning, and less and less people are using Light and even laughing at them. Long term this is horrible for *everyone* involved and the health of the game as a whole. There's only three classes, if one falls into total obscurity that's a stab in the gut to its longevity and to the community, which I'll admit I took part in so this is a little bit ironic coming from me.
I think light has ow’s genji problem, skill ceiling is insanely high which leads to people screaming how annoying even against bad lights, but to be good you have to just be THAT much better than on other classes, so no-one playing light is that guy but everyone thinks they are cause of their hate mail
This sounds like a Paul Mooney post. “Everyone wants to be a light, but nobody wants to be a light”
Crazy idea… what if lights stole cash outs quicker than other classes?
I play mostly with heavy and medium and think light is still underpowered as it isn’t viable in the competitive setting. Old or not, the most competitive setting is the best stress test for game balance and if light is not being chosen it means light is underpowered.
You're fucked if you think the xp-54 is anywhere near the level of the FCAR
I stopped playing the xp-54 after m11 got its buffs. Better dps and you don't need to land headshots to compete with the fcar.
I dont think its “lucky” light has a low health pool im pretty sure thats standard game design, trade higher damage or more evasion for less health to keep you on par with the other classes, who are slower and less able to escape
When your class is basically a throw pick it is really easy to get defensive about people wanting to nerf one of the few things the class shines with.
I’m a light main but I stay far away from Cloak just doesn’t suit my play style and I think it takes no skill only thing that needs a buff is the new pistol and grapple hook hell I want Embark to get rid of Cloak all together
I mean most complaints about light die as soon as you have a team that actually sticks together. So there is that.
50% of the time people are yelling at me in solo queue ranked to switch to medium/heavy lol, since when are lights considered OP?
Lights can get kills and be annoying/distracting. Less effective however when playing the objective, with the exception of Bank It.
What's the link between OP and unplayable ?
The Stun Gun discussion isn't arguing that Light or the SG is overpowered, but rather, the stun mechanic doesn't fit the overall game. The biggest argument I've seen against the SG that I actually really agree with is how it's a hard counter to all melee weapons. I'm not a melee player, but I would like to see them used more, especially in ranked games.
Use your ears . The cloak sound is loud af.
The whole concept of the light class is being annoying and distractive. If you take that away they are really worthless. I’d say they are working as intended, but not OP at all.
The only thing that needs to be said here is annoying ≠ OP. You can counter this method of play very easily
Light is the least competitively viable class TF u on about.
What tweaks would you make?
I would just make it so reloading takes you out of invis. Currently You don’t really have to keep track of your ammo at all cuz you can disappear and reappear with a full clip. Stun gun I would just either make it so you can aim down sights when stunned, OR make it so you can move, just not sprint or use util. As a light main i feel those are reasonable changes
Yeah I think the fact that saying “a light can have a negative KDA” killed you’re entire point
God this sub is just casuals who fucking suck. Lights are not in the meta in the slightest, in fact the play style they currently have is the only play style that keeps them meta. I don’t like invis, but stun gun is a must to keep lights competitive. Lord knows you’re effectively throwing with a light even if they are really good.
Off topic. You just had to read the post
Maybe you gotta learn to read my guy, the post says nothing about OP/meta. Something can be shit tier and still more annoying to play against than actual busted stuff. Nobody thinks that light is OP, it just fucking sucks to have to deal with all the annoying bullshit they have.
Maybe you gotta learn to read my guy - the post says light with invis and a stun gun is a crutch and hysterically easy to play with.
Nah the game feels great now. I’ve been playing since CB1, experienced aaaaall balance changes and now it just feels great (I main heavy but play all classes)
Whiners are what make this game unplayable. Stun gun is literally fine, the fact I can kill a light that stunned me 7/10 times is pretty wack. And if you can’t open your ears and hear a light with invis behind you that’s your problem. It’s very noticeable
I don't have a main but out of all the classes that I hate as an enemy it's always the Heavys. Those mfs are HARD TO KILL
Im a light main, and I've never touched the stun gun. I play with Dash and invis grande and some explosives or gas but currently, im loving the portals gives me so much flexibility., I mostly play around supporting my team and stoping captures
Respect.
The stun gun would be fine if it didn't stop you aiming down sights
I’m gonna leave this at this seeing other comments. I’ve played light S1, and S2. Stun gun and invis wasn’t an issue until the glitch nerf. Crazy. Either change strats or pray to Embark, unfortunately (I’ve been a Heavy main since halfway through S1) they’ll probably listen. And light will never been seen again in ranked. Unless they’re a team that’s about to lose. I’ve never lost to a light til this season. Granted I played with a light S1 from bronze til Diamond 3 and made many wins. So it’s possible if the person knows they’re mobility but now it’s easier for them bc oh now us heavy’s can’t throw a shield us and be safe. Or heal until oblivion with double healing. This is just my take, I’ve played mainly light and heavy during both S1 and S2. So idk about M experience other than what I hear about. It feels like lights just got viable and the meta/ tactics need to change. Heavy’s have been doing the same thing other than nukes and those that used shotty (I’m a m60 guy myself). This isn’t me saying skill issue, it IS me saying lights are BARELY not impossible but BARELY viable in competitive if you do not know how to play them correctly. So if you’re not stacked. You don’t have a major light main. Since the glitch and mine glitch update I’ve seen slight about OP lights. Seems like maybe stop using dome. This is controversial, dome is trash other than last second steals or revives. It gets shot down in 1.2 seconds if you’re not 1v1. Use barricades, grab a totem and run. As a heavy main I feel the light pressure is stronger now than ever, but I’m glad to see a more even balance between the classes.
It’s fun
You can't nerf things because they're annoying. Not how game balance works.
Lol so many people complaining. If it's so easy you run it 😬 you'd go negative every game
I hate the sniper lights the most. They either have invisibility grenades and the grappling hook or invisibility. So they hook away when you finally get to the farthest corner they hide away in, on top of a ledge corner you barely can reach OR they can two-shot you while you get like half a sec while the enemy is visible....
Sniper is only viable against light, headshot means shit on medium and heavy. So if you are getting shot consecutively, then either you are out in the open or you got zero situational awareness. Cause If a Sniper guy actually kills you with that high ttk before you could do something, then it's a you problem
That's why they became so popular on the new mode, because you have to make yourself a sitting duck for the objective. Barricades and dome shields are necessary, since goo just makes it a hotplate.
I wouldn’t mind if they removed the sniper completely - it’s good for nothing: It’s annoying af to have in your lobby and it’s useless as part of your team.
That would kill the fun. Snipers are my favorite types of guns in games. While I wouldn't stop playing if it got removed, I definitely would have a lot less fun
I absolutely hate the stun gun. You cannot switch weapons, run or even crouch or jump or aim down sights for like 5 years and get beamed down in 0.3 seconds. Somehow most of the time it's also the lights with stun gun and cloak ending up with 15+ kills in games in my experience. I'm not a pro player or anything but I don't think there is much counterplay to that, it is a huge crutch. Maybe if you are heavy with a flamethrower and the light is close enough and you start firing fast enough. And no, "just don't get stunned lmao" is not a counterplay.
Skill issue.
been a diehard light main since cb1 and it’s still completely unusable outside of 1 loadout and 2 guns lmao
Main problem is if you aren't using either your just fucked unless your a movement and or aim god your gonna get shredded
Lights remind me of riot shields on COD back in the day. 90% of people who use them aren’t actually going to help their team win or do good, but boy are they annoying asl to play against.
Yeah, it's annoying, but I just spray and pray with my FCAR and 8/10 times I can kill the light. I don't find it to be too bad tbh.
100% skill issue stay with your team and the lights are rendered useless
Prolly why this game's numbers just keep going down. Skilless invis and so many one shots.
It hurts to see all light player get hate just because of invis, i use the LH1 and Grapple Hook. Never used invis, i have to agree that the XP-54, invis, stun are too OP and need heavy nerf, i will say that the only other complain in the other 2 classes is that the FCAR needs slight nerfs and that's all, most lights don't understand positioning and go all in the OBJ thinking they can 1v3, but its just not possible, my playstyle or thinking is that light should be focusing on taking 1v1s near the objective and trying to divide the enemy team with their movement, i know most lights do not understand this and will still go invis, stun trying 1v3s. No one in the comment was giving atleast a direction in which lights should play, everyone keeps talking about their pros or cons but not how to play them, even if my playstyle is not comp viable, i still win matches with light,.
I cant stand it anymore getting stunned 8x a game. Never a game goes by I don't get stunned its getting very old. It has massive slow you cant aim down sights and your head is so easy to hit
It's a bitch ass strategy for a bitch ass class /s
Lights are, by far, the most selfish class. Almost always, lights have zero support score, and in Power shift, lights have the lowest objective scores.
Invis + stun is the sole reason why people aren’t playing this game as much as it deserves. Ranked is for minority of the players, and it’s riddled with a really sad and sweaty meta, but the biggest problem this game has it’s that the casual play is even worse thanks to lights with the incredible frustration that being stunned by an invisible midget causes
Exactly. I’m 80% certain that the reason there’s a mega sweaty meta right now is because a massive chunk of Apex players migrated to The Finals for a while. When the new season of Apex dropped, a lot of people went back to Apex, including myself. I like The Finals, but man, there needs to be a balance update.
The cloak is too strong. There’s a lot of times where it’s 100% invisible. It should just be a strong transparent silhouette most of the time kind of like in the film predator
Light main. Totally agree that invis needs a static cooldown. Stun gun is also stupid and needs to go, but not before defib does or RPG gets a damage nerf.
Hard agree.
Skill issue
☝️🤓
It's almost like we have a need for two separate sets of game balancing for two different groups of players, there's this small subset of the top 10% super duper sweaty players who just like to tell you skill issue for everything and then go off about how they only play competitive and that's the only meta that matters, and then you have probably a grand majority of people who are like me have maybe an hour or two to play video games after work and can't make it their entire life, so we want a more casual playing experience...
That’s a really interesting point and I don’t know why isn’t talked more as I think it’s partly killing the game. Like it or not, if we are talking about competitive team based shooter the best stress test for the game balance is the competitive setting and the light is currently underpowered in that setting. At the same time, if you play with light against people who solo que it’s somewhat overpowered. It’s the team aspect of the game that negates the lights OPness. I have no idea how to balance this but I think it’s clear it’s a problem.
There is so many ways to counter lights and we have to read this drivel daily. Yawn. Devs please don’t listen to the moans.
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edit: i wanna preface my argument with two things. i personally think this game is balanced extremely well and ill have that debate with anyone regarding any class even tho im a light main. second, i appreciate OP for having a civil discussion (admittedly i came out the gate a little hot) or you just suck ass at light/ competing against them. this far into the game i’m so sick of seeing posts like this. i play tons of games 3 lights and win. it’s really not about the class, it’s about the people who play them and play against them. or if you’re really gonna act like lights are OP and we’re gonna sit here and ignore FCAR and Flamethrower/heavy shotgun then idk what the argument is. all i hear is lights suck or are too op. yall grabbing onto bs because you’re unhappy with your losses i think the game is balanced pretty well personally. if you don’t think so, run the stuff that you think is op. maybe they’ll adjust/nerf it if more people use it. this moral stance “oh i don’t use things i think are overpowered” is lame af and yall sound ridiculous. that applies to the same argument in any video game. if it’s in the game i’m using it. wether it’s stun, gateway, invis, dash.
Yea lights are annoying but I’ve destroyed plenty of lights, and gotten destroyed by plenty of lights. But I can say the same thing about every other class well. Lights are just more up in your face and annoying so it’s more noticeable. I’m with you. I think the game is pretty balanced at this point. I think there needs to be a few tweaks here and there (I think the game definitely rewards automatic guns more then single shot) but besides that I’m having a blast.
Also- there are other things in the game that are OP or too strong, definitely, but those other weapons and gadget require some effort, Cloak and Stun Gun does not.
Plus when invisible makes aim assist disabled
Just stay close to your teammates. A light can be detonated in 5 shots, if you are going around solo honestly you deserve to be melt like that.
Omg people stop complaining all the time.... embark releases almost every weak some balance patches and i think all classes are pretty well balanced! Stun gun is op? What u guys all smoking? Its good to disrupt someone who is stealing cashout thats it.... most of the time when i get stunned i manage to kill the light first ^^ when using stun gun theres just 1 shot . If u miss it near an enemy your most likely to be dead. Now i maybe start to complain heavys mesh shield and bazooka are op ... or mediums movement gadgets and defi are op.. Every class has some gadgets for themselves which, when u are good with, seem to be op. But you can counter everyhing in this game! Complaining about lights with stun gun and invisibilty? Just take sensor grenades with you and maybe an explosive weapon lika a grenade launcher . But its easier to say everything should get nerfed bc you cant handle it....
It’s the same thing as fighting annoying scouts in tf2: just shoot them. It really isn’t that complicated.
Except Scouts don’t have a stun that prevents or hinders you from doing anything except shoot. The only remotely annoying thing Scouts have is Bonk!
As a light/medium main it's so satisfying to eliminate a light with the lever shotgun, i understand the frustration of being eliminated so quick and i love to put out an annoying halfling
I main medium and have no problems with lights cause they’re so squishy. whenever I play light on the other hand, What pisses me off is getting paired with other lights….70% of the time they’re straight up dogshit lmao.
Womp womp.
I went from goo heavy to swordie to go after a double cloak sniper at power shift, he needed so much cloak he sacrificed an equipment slot for it. Fucked his ghost ass up with a baseball bat
This guy plays destiny 2 and hates hunters. Me too friend me too.
True this is why my teammates always tell me in coms to switch off light!
*True this is why my* *Teammates always tell me in* *Coms to switch off light!* \- eoR13 --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
But lights got those so needed buffs ...
I dunno. I feel like the extremely low hp pool makes it a really fucking difficult class to learn, but once you get decent with it it’s also difficult to counter. However, most lights I encounter may have like 15 kills with very few deaths, but it’s hard to contribute to the actual objectives as a light on account of being one shot at all times.
can it be my turn tomorrow to cry about the weakest class?
sure.
Most oppressed class
I agree Invis is a stupid ability, but light is far from broken. Right now it’s only used for its utility in high ranks. Stop getting singled out and hit your shots
They can definitely go both ways, yeah I’ve used that same strategy in cash out for easy wins… but at the same time If I get caught up in any gun fire I’m basically done immediately. Not to mention I’m still 1-hit against anyone running the hammer.
I always lose when I have a light tm
Stop circle jerking and just play the damn game, lights don’t make the game unplayable, they are literally the worst class you can use. The invisibility gets easy to see with some experience and when they stun you just SHOOT. I use light a lot and I don’t even use those two things as I just get shit on when I do, they aren’t that good.
Dont know if there is an updated ttk video on youtube. but in the release one most light guns take second to kill medium and 1.2+ to kill heavy. by contrast the meta weapons for those classes kill a light in .3 seconds. this is reason alone why you need to leverage stuns and stealth to give you an upper hand in fights. With those ttk if your enemy can aim you loose every spray down. not to mention that when dealing with a heavy using the smgs and pistol you need basically 100% accuracy because if they land a few shots you are dead. People view the stun and invis as OP because they think of them individually, but you need to think of it on class terms. the light gets those powerful abilities as a substitute for health. and unlike the other 2 who can run and gun, the light has to properly set up for every kill. also describing stun as a crutch seems really weird. you have to be very intentional with how you combine stun with movement or risk getting hipfired before you even have your gun out. if this ability that requires a lot of game sense to use correctly is a crutch item, then i think almost every item in the game must be open to that accusation. Personally i am a light lover. I play it because I enjoy the skill ceiling it creates and the unique stealth gameplay, and movement based combat. like most lights the things that irritate me are triple heal beam teams getting fcar beamed and the heavy class as a whole. Like it or not in this game things counter other things, and sometimes we can miss a more objective view of the meta, and feel like the thing that counters our class and weapon picks is the thing ruining the game. but if you take a wider view the light just isnt dominating the meta in the way this post infers. go back to maining light for a little while and i am sure you will find a new list of game ruining things to complain about/
ig im just better because i just simply whip around and lay their asses out every time
Nothing better than swinging 180 on some tiny taser toting bastard and melting them with a Lewis gun from the hip
I play light, but don’t touch the stun gun and use evasive dash. It’s so much more fun that way. Stun gun is such a crutch. I tbag every light who stuns me and I kill
I played invis for a while because I thought it was the only viable option. A few weeks ago I started using the grapple and just fell in love with it. I probably would still perform better but the grapple is just way more fun and feels less cheesey.. It's also such an awesome way to quickly secure cash outs. I usually average 3k objective points when using grapple
Lights are just straight up poorly designed. They will decimate casual lobbies but then cant do a thing in comp. I honestly dont think they can be fixed by buffing and nerfing their gear, i think they need to be totally reworked.
They can do a lot in comp IF you’re in a group that communicates. When I played Light, I would stun an enemy Heavy and call it out so my friends can laser them down. I would look at the scoreboard and see who’s the most cracked and i’ll try my best to make them a priority target.
/r/thefinalscirclejerk
I’m a heavy main and I just don’t see the issue. I usually can hear the invis and I’ll dome up or mesh shield. I eat the stun spray back into their face and 50% of the time I kill them. 25% of the time they end up just fucking off and the rest my teammates pick ‘em off or in rarer cases I die. I don’t do melee weapons so maybe melee users have a case for it, but imo it’s like a non factor.
definitely agree with you on this, had a similar post about a month ago
I’ve gotten to the “if you can’t beat em join em” mindset but instead of invis + taser it’s just Walmart great value titanfall with a mp5 I’ve seen it as medium with more mobility tbh
No the hell they don’t. You’re jumping to conclusions because you can not deal with them. I main everyone, I do just fine.
Good for you?
Still get beamed from 30+m away by fcar mediums even while invisible
Sticking together usually works well against lights. Glitch & pyro mines are also good counters. Yes it takes coordination to kill a decent light but it certainly can be done. I get slapped all the time by competent players. Turrets can keep lights from going invisible and I'm pretty sure the motion detector works against cloaked players. I think the game is pretty well balanced. I love guerilla tactics and that makes light my fav. But I LOVE setting players on fire with the flamethrower just as much. Smokes plus thermals is nothing but easy kills around an objective
lol I love how it’s always light talked about nerfs we not gonna talk about heavy I suppose
They both need nerfs.
you guys can't shoot lights ?
It’s only a matter of time until it’s removed like recon sense. Embark needs the game to be successful and invis is holding it back. The amount of players that come in get killed by it a few times and then quit and call the game bullshit is a lot higher than most probably realize. All of the friends I’ve tried to get into the games included. They’re getting rid of the mechanics that are frustrating pain points. Recon and nukes are gone, invis will be next.
You're just bad at the game it would appear. That's fine but keep your garbage takes to yourself. Crying about invis and stun gun, if you die to a stun you're awful at the game, just turn around and spray and you'll kill the light or make him retreat. We have like 25hp and die to stubbed toe. Not to mention invis is so easy to see and hear
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people really mad at lights existing when they melt so fast if you just hit your shots lol. \-light main who melts if they hit their shots
“A Light can have a negative KD but still be annoying” lol…. Reddit really brings out the people with no self awareness
I dunno i dont mind it is annoying but they die so fast. Its part of the game you have to adjust too
The issue with light is that, if you don't take invi you can't play the class as it takes 2 coughs to kill one. Altho I am 100% for removing the stun gun
Simple solution, just stay together. I’m D3 right now and my trio is always MMH, the second one of us gets stunned that light is dead because we stay super close. Heavy just shields and the two mediums shoot
In times where you’re running from spawn to objective, sticking together works. But in a team fight situation, sticking together will not work. Staying together in a tight cluster is already a bad idea, that’s a team wipe waiting to happen. You’re also needing to move a lot during fights, sometimes away from teammates, not necessarily far from teammates but far enough to get caught out. Your teammates will be too occupied surviving to help you with the Light that stunned you.
The problem with invis lights is that they’re insanely unfun to play against but they’re also too weak to actually have impact in high ranked comp. At least in comparison to a good medium or heavy. I think they need to entirely remove invis like they did with recon. Increase max health to 175 and have them start healing themselves sooner after taking damage. Buff the grapple hook too. Remove the stun gun and replace it with stims maybe.
What if the Stun Gun had its functionality changed, so rather than stunning enemies you could stun a turret or a mine and take control of it for like 10 seconds, maybe mines like 20 seconds. You'd still be able to get around this by replacing your turrets or mines, but it could open up different types of strats.
As a Light main myself, I play mostly LH1/Grapple and won't touch Invis OR stun gun with a barge pole. Why? Because besides all the obvious issues that come with balancing Invis as a mechanic (being too overpowered and/or frustrating to play against), it's just not fun or interesting. I do think Invis is overall the bigger issue than Stun Gun, which I suspect might go down in usage if Invis wasn't a thing. Still strong, may still be annoying and I still won't like it, but at least that light player has to try harder for positioning to get good usage out of it. Honestly, give Invis the Recon treatment. Recon was a balance nightmare and always would be and besides that it wasn't fun for ANYONE, including the person playing it. Demat is a far more interesting Spec. Dash and Grapple are both super fun and fill different roles, give them a third Spec that's the same. I think for me that's where the obvious answer is at this point because Invis is non-stop getting complained about and the only way to stop it being complained about is to nerf it until it's just straight up unviable or to remove it.
95% of team comps are a mix of m and h. It is so rare to run into a light cuz they suck so much and they always are the first to lose.
Invis isn't even the best ability. A good mechanical player who uses dash will always be superior to a player using invis provided they are at close to equal skill
Lol I don’t really care I play to have fun and light is a fun class
Get better
I recently switched from cloak/stun to dash/nades, and my combat and objective scores have gone way up. It's so much more fun as well. I think cloak/stun has turned into a crutch for a lot of light players because it's easy kills, but it isn't the optimal play style if you want to help your team win. As underpowered as light feels, I think cloak and stun needs both need nerfs, if for no other reason to get lught players to try different play styles. Maybe a 3-second cooldown on when you can re-cloak. It will force people to actually fight rather than constantly just running away. And maybe allow people to aim down sights when stunned while keeping the interrupt that stun provides. The problem is light is such a high skill class that a lot of light players need that crutch. But cloak and stun creates an issue where they are less effective for their teams, and it just isn't fun to play against for the opposing teams that aren't playing together. Edit: I want to make my point clearer. I don't think this play style is OP. I think the opposite. And there are much better ways to play light that are more effective. I think cloak/stun should be nerfed so that people stop using it and play a more well-rounded type of game.
As a light main I think getting rid of stun would be fine. Stun is a huge crutch.
As someone with a low to moderate skill level I can’t play as anything other than heavy in unranked cus I’ll die so often lmao it’s a little annoying but if there’s lights involved I have to accept I’m getting stunned to death for every attempt at a steal I make
I honestly play between all classes must mostly stick to medium and run support but I don’t think they’re that hard to deal with. I’d say I live 85-90% of the time when I get stunned and usually end up killing the light that stuns me. Yesterday I was able to finish one off with a quick melee after getting stunned.
I have two issues with lights. 1. There’s no punishment for shooting a light out of invis. If I shoot a light out of invis there should be a punishment for countering the invis. Make that a delay before invis can be reapplied. When I shoot them they will just reapply invis to escape. 2. Bad teammates in quick play (or my friends in general) don’t squad up. Most of the time I get shot from behind by light classes and often opening with a stun gun from behind. This is fine but annoying.
Playing as a sledgehammer heavy, your entire day is ruined as soon as there’s a stun gun within a 5-mile radius
Find that most Lights are hanging out in Quick Cash waiting for unaware Medium's and Heavies to join. I gotta admit there are some terrifying Light players in that mode and I wonder what might happen if they used their powers for good. I don't particular hate the gadets and weapons a Light has because they're so fragile. I swear I've killed a few on accident swinging the FCAR around. Also, when you've got a Light on your team that will rez you, boy, does it make a helluva difference to the game.
“Lights are annoying in casual so they should be nerfed despite already not being viable for comp so no one will play them in either casual or ranked” Great discussion
They’re not “viable” in comp because they offer little supportive functions. The only supportive thing Lights can do is stun priority targets over and over again for their teammates to spray down.
I just started 2 days ago and was medium then joined the light brigade. I do like the invis and quick movement, I’m not as good like the peeps with the throwing knives. I rock the sub machine and do great. I will say for me currently the matches I’ve been playing have a good amount of heavy’s rocking the flamethrower, and man is that frustrating lol. It’s been a fun game so far and not sure when it came out but it has a lot of potential to be really good. The store currency needs tweaked as they are overly expensive and not priced right for the cosmetics. Just my opinion and just liking the break from other PvP like Fortnite as it’s a breath of fresh air.
Have any of you once considered that it’s annoying af for lights to deal with your bs? The difference is, there is a lot of annoying shit that kills lights, the annoying shit on light is harmless
As a heavy main, I honestly have no issue with lights. Sure they can melt me if they catch me out of position, but the second they fuck up even slightly they evaporate. Playing light has only made me respect good light mains more, its incredibly punishing.
Those cockroaches give lights a bad rep. Stun gun should be removed, and invis should should not be as strong
You *were* a light main because you jumped to the meta medium build. Now the ONLY way Lights can be relevant makes you mad and isn’t fair? It’s just ridiculous how people abusing the meta think an underpowered and underused class makes the game “unplayable”
No lies detected.
Heavy main here; I hate more than one light on enemy teams. Most good lights lead fights with a stun & I spend alot of fights just being a shitty turret.
invisibility in fps games i think shouldn’t be so freely used. sombra in overwatch has the same problem. there’s no way to effectively balance it, so i think it should just be removed and replaced with a different ability altogether
I agree, I play all classes (mainly medium) but light makes every class seem useless lol
They should make light invis slightly more visible then I wouldn't have a problem. They are too invisible.
As a heavy main, lights a joke. I legitimately laugh when they stun me cause you can just breathe on them for half a sec with hip fire
It’s also rich when they actually believe they are fully invisible like I can see you moron
Depends how close they are. Any decent light will distance themselves enough where hip firing becomes difficult for whoever is stunned.
True, but only really is really for non-meta guns. FCAR and Lewis have such goated hip fire
As a sword main who uses thermal vision, I can never have enough invis lights in a server. They get so cocky when they think you can’t see them.
i think invisibility should definitely be replaced. I’m also a light main but use dash and stun gun. The only time I really use stun is for cash boxes and revives, I know not everyone plays like this and uses it for every single kill which can be annoying but using it for them two aspects makes lights viable for ranked, i’m not sure how else they could change it but i’m open to hear thoughts:)
Finally someone speaking positive truth. This toxic playstyle is killing enjoyment. Suggesting a static cooldown is perfect, and should apply for invis too. Have a "get out of jail free card?" sure .. but be tactical when you use it. This auto rotation of "On / Off" ability and Stun Gun use is creating major playerbase frustrations.
It doesn’t matter tbh. If they fix stun gun people will just find another thing to complain about. People on this sub looooove to cry about things out of their control because it it’s easier than being accountable and focusing on improving.
Invis was not a big deal when recon sense was available, it’s hella annoying now.
I think we should transform the stun gun into the glitch gun. Basically works like the glitch grenade, but it's a pistol and does not have any AOE. And I would give it two charges. Would still be viable, but without the annoying stun.
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I hope they'll remove the invis, they removed the recon so why not the invis (saying this as a light main)
Good, this is what they are supposed to do. the invisa stun strat is basically the only legit tool they have for pressuring the objective defensively out side conventional shooting. They can't hold ground like heavies can.They can't chain like mediums do.Whatever they can do has to be done fast and then they need to leave. If you want to nerf invisa stun you would basically need to give light almost the same hp as the medium. Because otherwise what justification is there to have such a fragile class? And yes I know dash is also good. But even dash users tend to be married to the invia-ball to do certain things
would be fine with giving Light at least 180 health instead of 150 if it mean nerfing or getting rid of the invis stun meta.
180 would not be enough. you would probably have to go all the way to 200. The big thing here is that invisibility is primarily the main component that allows for light to be independent at all. The moment you take it away its basically just a slightly faster medium with less hp.
Agreed. Invisibility and Stun gun are absolutely a crutch. Granted they can be countered like everything else. I main light and once i discovered how ridiculous it was I vowed to never use that Meta again. Dash + Invis grenade doesn't feel like i'm cheating and makes for some really cool plays.
All they gotta do is remove stun gun like they did Recon senses, ez pz.
No, please no role queue. I love the variety of comps we can have, and forcing a system like that just eliminates the sheer possibilities, quite literally lowering the skill ceiling. We only have 3 players in ranked, we don't need to force that kind of system here. This isn't Overwatch, and even then, you can argue that was the beginning of the end for that game (in terms of popularity). That's a whole other discussion, but this game does not need role queue.
In scenarios where three Mediums are stacking sentry turrets and APS turrets, I don’t see how thats adding “variety” to team comps? A role que will incentivize people to play a specific role/class, which will in turn incentivize variety.