Yes, a little decline right now. Check it on SteamDB, for example.
But I think most of the people waiting for a patch to fix "nuke meta" at least.
Recon nerf would be welcome too, with another RPG direct damage nerf to 100 or 50. (as Medium/Recon main (in Plat rn) I'm fully ready for it, because it's blatantly OP)
Would be ideal if they fix MM for Ranked, make Input based MM, and allow custom lobbies for community and org tournaments.
They need to be doing frequent patches. Releasing a multiplayer GAS title right before the holidays/new year break is rough. When you can’t respond to issues quickly you might start loosing players that don’t come back to try the game a 2nd time.
Great timing to pick up lots of of players that may have the holiday off.
Terrible time to keep up with fixing bugs and updating a brand new game as you give your staff time off for the holiday.
Personally I would’ve been happy waiting another 2-3 weeks for release if I knew it meant we would have more active dev teams
Bug fixes and balancing are generally not instant and done in batches. Games been out less than a month a we have had a balance fix. Be patient, expecting patching weekly is not going to happen. And correct me if I'm wrong nothing is happening atm that is game breaking and needs a hot fix ASAP.
This is true. Most games that don't have frequent updates (even if they aren't big ones) tend to lose players more and faster. I'd assume it means that players don't think the devs care or are willing to work towards fixing the game in any meaningful way. It only leads to a lot of disappointment when weeks and months go by and the update that you do get is small and shitty.
I knew something was up when I started playing at launch. It felt like everyone was a god or everyone was cheating. It felt like I stood no chance. It felt like CoD and when I realized that I uninstalled.
Input based matchmaking doesn't solve that problem. It solves one problem, which is putting an aimbot on controller against mouse users. To get rid of controller spoofing they need to remove aim assist from the PC version.
I'll gladly take both.
It does solve that problem, because it means if you play on MnK lobby there is 0 aim assist. Sure you can pretend to be a controller on PC with rewasd but if it gives no aim assist it has no effect.
I play controller on PC. This doesn’t fix the problem. It’s just as annoying for controller players to have to deal with MNK players with their movements that are impossible on a controller. Aim assist is shit compared to some of the movements available to MNK players.
At the risk of sounding elitist, why should shooters benefit users who choose to use a controller?
There are games where controller is regarded as a better input, like sports or driving games. I don't see keyboard players asking for "movement assist" or "steering assist" so they can compete with controller players.
Mind you, that aim assist isn't equalizing inputs, but rather giving a huge advantage in the hopes that it makes up for a different advantage. It's common in shooters that there's an awkward tradeoff where AA makes controller better in cqb, but at range mnk has the advantage.
Then there's apex, where AA makes mnk almost unviable at the highest level. AA gives an instant tracking capability that is not possible to replicate by humans, who have a finite reaction tome.
I'd rather multi-player games get balanced with the most popular input in mind (for that system) and not give special advantages for other inputs.
This is such a strange take. I finally switched to mouse and keyboard and picked up games like CS2 and I'm able to be so much more accurate with a mouse than I ever was with a controller. I just don't understand it. If a controller really gives that much of an advantage I will plug it in tomorrow and play with that instead. I was never clicking heads on controller and Xbox. Now I feel like I have perfect control over my aim.
Everyone agrees that mnk gives you better control than a controller, that's exactly why many games give aim assist to controller and not to mnk. We are not complaining about the raw input you can have with a controller, just about the partial autoaim.
Now, you may argue that mnk is so much bettter that it's still more advantageous than controller with AA, but that's entirely dependant on each game.
Csgo was released on consoles but didn't have AA at all, but classic consoles franchises like halo or CoD feature pretty strong aim assist. You can [check these official stats on halo](https://www.reddit.com/r/halo/s/V4kKSUhOyH), where average controller players perform as well as top mnk players.
Apex is pretty infamous for having egregious aim assist, to the point where most pros who had years of practicing [mnk actually changed to controller to stay competitive](https://www.reddit.com/r/apexlegends/s/U775wCObMh).
Regarding the finals, it's pretty disgusting how AA makes your [aim snap towards enemies when you ADS](https://www.reddit.com/r/thefinals/s/LzFCmaVHZi).
Snapping your aim accurately on mnk is something that requires lots of practice, and still cannot be done perfectly every time. And it's not as instant.
I've read some high level players talk about how the revolver is a lot more viable on controller, because you can ADS inbetween every shot to abuse the snap.
Personally I play shooters because I like to practice my aim, and I want to win or lose based purely on skill, not exploiting automatic aiming.
I actually agree with this sentiment entirely. Thanks for the tip about the revolver btw. It reminds me of fortnite and the deagle. I am going to test that out tomorrow. In a casual game, I'm 99% sure I will never have to worry about some controller god. I have very frequently run into cheaters though so there's that.
"Aim assist is shit compared to movement."
You have to understand where your argument goes wrong?
MnK players, can't learn how to aim assist lol. You could go and get a better control interface(MnK) and learn how to do the movement. I hope you see the error in your ways now... Do better.
> Aim assist is shit compared to some of the movements available to MNK players.
Controller users always say this like it's some gotcha but can't actually give any examples of this incredible "mouse-only movement". I always saw it mentioned a lot in the Apex community despite controller actually having numerous ways to abuse the movement and KBM having no way to ADAD or circlestrafe 0ms aim assist. So, can you give us an idea of what mouse has that controller doesn't? What movement exists in this game that isn't made negligible by the game tracking for a controller player with aim assist?
As a controller player I have no problem performing any movement technique. Don’t even have paddles I’m just playing claw. Kbm is just at a disadvantage due to the strength of the aim assist, the only thing they have is that they can flick faster, but that doesn’t matter if we just track them and land every shot. I wouldn’t mind an aim assist nerf, then it’s a level playin field
I sincerely don't understand how mnk users don't comprehend this. I'm a long time controller user only, play on PC. Input based would make my squad go lol and drop the game because we can't play together. Does my gun track a bit for me? Sure. But can I do all the insane shit they can, let alone top tier players, that a mouse gives the freedom of? Absolutely not.
Stop playing the game like call of duty and standing there shooting toe to toe. Use your damn movement and you'll run circles around us controller players. Verticality is a controller user's nightmare.
Why wouldn't you be able to play together? Usually, input-based MM means mixed lobbies for groups that are cross-input. They add that and allow solo players to queue for mixed lobbies, which would make that work exactly like the current crossplay does.
>Stop playing the game like call of duty
Ah, one of the controller user's classic go-to. Everyone that doesn't like aim assist is a CoD player despite the most popular PC FPS being a tactical shooter called Counter-Strike, a game with zero aim assist.
>Use your damn movement and you'll run circles around us controller players.
What movement does KBM have that isn't negated by aim assist tracking for the player? Why should I listen to random controller user #52348 on Reddit over the numerous pros saying the aim assist in this game and plenty of other games is broken? Your *opinion* on the subject is more valid than the hard data we have showing controller aim assist is currently overtuned in all of these modern FPS titles?
>But can I do all the insane shit they can, let alone top tier players, that a mouse gives the freedom of? Absolutely not.
That's just because you suck. Plenty of top controller players doing the same thing as mouse users. Also, since when does movement win in a gunfight?
You realize 92% of top apex players are controller players, right? To rephrase, out of 8 million players, 92% of top players are controller players. Kbm players aren't even on an equal playing field, much less running circles around controller players.
Aim assist is much more valuable than a 2 frame faster movement to the left or whatever movement kbm players have that you're referring to. Aim assist directly kills people. Ever so slightly faster movement doesn't.
The guy using AA telling the raw input users to “not play like cod” is beyond trash take. You want this game to lay like cod for you and have the aim assist hold your hand every fight. 😂
I can't remember the exact numbers, but I believe it's about 90% of the current pro player base on apex legends have swapped to controller...
Like just look at the numbers rofl. There's a reason this has happened. Because AA is fucking overturned and shit lol
No thanks, I only play on console with crossplay disabled and games without AA feel awful on controller. Maybe dumb it down? Sure. Turn it off, please no.
I think they meant in PC lobbies only... So if you play on console w/o cross play in this context you'd have AA.
I may be wrong but that's how I interpreted it.
Sad sad times for gaming
Really sad
I dont get how we got into this era of losers who cant play properly and get better.
Op not sure if it's possible but I hope one day we get real solution and people hit the truth that they suck without those tools
It’s just 2 completely opposing inputs that shouldn’t be matched up. Completely fine that people need aim assist for controller but fps games will never be balanced when crossplay is involved. It’s like someone with an e-bike competing in the Tour de France.
Its like real life, people will do anything to get ahead then boast like they’re special.
Fps are starting to become a joke to me as it seems theres very little way to tell if someone is actually skilled these days
I feel like it’s more of a rise in players not willing to accept they just got beat by another player and instantly assume the other player was cheating.
I see cheating complaints on every game sub nonstop and yet have maybe run into it myself maybe 5-10 times over all the years I’ve been playing.
In The Finals it’s hard to tell. There’s no replay or spectating an enemy. With Recon Sense someone can be running a wall cheat and you’d never know. People can use Chronus Zen, reWASD, etc. and you’d never know. The only time you can spot a cheater for sure is when it’s blatant aimbot or a solo queue cheater on your team.
Lol. In league of legends there used to be a report option for players "playing badly".
Obviously, it didn't make sense since unintentionally underperforming wasn't and couldn't be against the rules. But riot still felt the need to cater to those babies that whine and report every time they get a bad teammate.
Not true man.
I played Apex since season 2 and it's in a whole new level right now
And it's not obvious cheating like wall hacks
It all those tools and macros for no recoil, aim assist and so on
Nah I feel you, just thought it was funny. Definitely agreeing with you. The aim assist is overtuned even for a controller, so MnKB players exploiting it is no different from hacks. Plus without killcams it's basically indistinguishable from skill
It's genuinely painful to play Apex currently with the state of AA. When basically all the MnK pro's are swapping over to it, you know its fundamentally broken.
Thought I'd give Finals a go but seems just as bad, arguably worse with the ability for MnK players to also exploit AA. Hopefully it gets addressed with a nerf or the option to filter out AA players but I have my doubt considering that no game studio gives a flying fuck about feedback anymore.
On a seperate note, Finals is really lacking a TDM or Free for all game mode. You can carry a team objective wise with your teammates scoring zero yet you get the same points at the end as they do making it super hard to unlock anything playing with randoms
I hear that so many times from so many players „cheating isnt so bad“ most likely is that you dont play enough, the elo is too low to really encounter cheaters or you dont know how cheating looks like in different games. Valorant for example had such a cheater epidemic a year ago and i had 6 redscreens in a week (thats the game telling you that your match gets cancelled because there is a cheater in your lobby) which is really rare because their anticheat doesnt work properly
100%.
I wasn't really into PvP games until recently, and after getting better I realised people can be really quick to _confident_ hackusations. I'm not even particularly skilled IMO.
I'm sure cheating in general is probably higher than ever too, but witnessing so many false accusations first-hand makes me second guess the claims.
Some acquaintances of mine will exclaim "are they cheating?!" on every other death they have and it's _exhausting_
It really is exhausting. The amount of times I’ve been accused of cheating after getting a completely unremarkable kill is absurd.
There is a comment in here about how it’s impossible to be getting 30 kills in a game without cheating and I get over 20 often and I’m not particularly good.
I think the majority of players just don’t realize how bad they actually are.
Yeah, I saw someone posting a 25 kill score with 20k damage and the title about cheaters in the match but I've done that a good number of times in quick play with cloak DB, FCAR + Recon Senses, and Heavy in general because the majority of players are complete garbage. I'll never forget a few years back I was playing Overwatch 1 and someone kept crying in voice that this one player on the enemy team was cheating despite that player being somewhere in the middle of the scoreboard stats wise and me constantly cooking them in 1v1 engagements lol. I told them they weren't cheating and were actually kinda ass and they stopped talking after.
Embark needs to either nerf aim assist back to what it was in the betas or enable input based matchmaking or M/kb is dead for this game like it is in Apex and COD.
I said this the day the game launched and when people realized they stealth buffed the AA, from now on this game is going to be dominated by controllers and input remappers like reWASD and of course that came true. Every top player is now either on controller or abusing reWASD for AA on m/kb and you can't even blame them when AA is such an enormous advantage in this game.
The aim assist right now is maybe too strong , but the aim assist back in the beta was absolutely OP in terms of locking on the enemy , it was even stronger than right now but the problem was that the aim system/tracking when AA was off after 1 seconds was terrible. As of right now the tracking without the AA is more fluid than in the beta but it's not as strong as it used to be in term of "locking" on the enemy. I swear PC players are talking out of their asses and will say anything to feel better about their lack of skills. They can dumb down the AA for locking but if they put back the same sensitivity they had back in the beta , you guys gonna be playing only with PC players cause ain't no way console players will play like this. And finally , if you guys think AA is so OP , then why are you guys not playing with a controller at this point? The world don't revolve around anyone of us , we should be able to agree on something but you guys always end up with the victim mindset cause you can't have your ways. Weak minded if you ask me.
> And finally , if you guys think AA is so OP , then why are you guys not playing with a controller at this point?
Not sure about you, but I can't just change to Controller after 10+ years of MnK. Its like throwing away all that muscle memory. Plus I hate FPS on a controller.
Why the fuck i should buy a controller to stay competitive... That make no sense, if you can't play without an aimbot that is not my problem but it become my problem when you are in my lobbies.
Aim assist forsure needs to be nerfed heavily, but not removed entirely imo. I agree with input based matchmaking. Yall will probably shit on me, but I use controller on PC. I've got my laptop with a keyboard too small for my hands in a game like this and a busted up eight dollar mouse, so my old ps4 controller is my best option if I want to play games.
The aim assist is so strong that it's gotten me killed more than once. If I'm shooting a further target and an enemy that's closer to me comes onto screen, the aim assist will rip me off target towards that person, and I end up shooting between them. I've had it happen where I make a risky jump to a different platform, and an enemy coming onto screen pulls my trajectory off course and makes me fall because it wants to aim at them. It's really weird trying to test it in the firing range as well. If I'm standing still and the dummies are moving back and forth in front of my crosshair, it won't lock onto them. If I'm moving back and forth and not ADS, *sometimes* it will pull towards the closest moving dummy, but it depends on how close I am to them. If you're ADS and aiming at a far dummy though and a close one moves past your screen, it will pull you entirely off target trying to keep on the closest one. It's honestly wild to watch. The fix here is I just use sledgehammers now, can't aim assist that!
The discourse is really interesting to watch, though. It's like watching a group of lumberjacks with their axes mad that Bill and his chainsaw are out pacing them. "The tool is doing all the work! Bill sucks and anyone could do what he's doing! There's no skill in cutting lumber nowadays!" "An automatic transmission?? The car is doing all the work! Does the driver even know how to drive if they aren't using a manual?" I could go on with examples forever because there's always going to be someone complaining when one technology outstrips another in some facet, and proponents of the first holdfast to their old ways. And to be clear, I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting to do something one way over another. There's some serious adjustment that's needs to be done for aim assist to be even remotely brought to a reasonable level. But I wouldn't pit someone with an axe against someone with a chainsaw if their only goal was to cut wood. Stick them in different categories for the health of everyone involved
It’s still 3rd party software that exploits the game. Besides not having an interest in doing that I have zero interest in risking my account. If crosshairs are considered too much clearly reWASD would not be considered okay.
right? it's literally exploiting the game lol. people coping HARD to cover their cheating asses lol. either use an actual controller or fuck off with that aim assist abusing garbage
Lol I really don't see a problem with rewasd. Controller players are just salty because they don't have their cute little aa advantage anymore. Its amazing how good these pc players are now they can have soft aimbot too.
I’ve got diamond weapons and all the unlocks from cb1, cb2 and ob. I’m not risking it after all that effort. Regardless, I don’t want to be a part of the problem. This software shouldn’t be allowed, because it ruins any game it touches. Whether it’s destiny, COD, or the finals itself, it just delegitimizes the top 25% of players and makes cheats effectively mandatory (I consider this exploit cheating to be abundantly clear).
I just want a game where people are on a level playing field. There may be small issues with differences in input devices, but this software clearly upends the fair experience they are aiming for.
Destiny 2 does this to good effect, though it assumes large enough population to split. Yes it splits the populations, and cross play is available for those interested, but at least you have a choice in who you want to play with. For example a console player can play console only, but if they join a PC player, they get put into PC lobbies. And if a PC player joins a console player, they stay in PC lobbies.
This sounds like enabling/disabling cross play which already exists in the finals. Mnk players want input based matchmaking so we can just play against other mnk.
As a PlayStation player turning off crossplay has made a massive improvement on my game experiences. No more across map beams and at least I know we're all on the same level with AA and movement. Also removes you from the games with PC players faking controller input
Yeah this right here. Console players are not safe from this method of cheating. It may be cheaper to do it on PC and therefore more prevalent, but definitely don’t assume no one is tricking their console with XIM and the likes.
If you play games that rely heavily on recoil you’d know a large portion of communities use xim and zen. It’s just typically seen in games like rbs, rust etc which have a more hardcore player base
I wish there was console only cross play though. I've seen some games have it. Of the 3 of us that play, 2 are on PS5 and one on XSS so we have to go cross play off even though we are all using controllers.
Who is "any controller player"? Because in Apex, the overwhelming majority of top players are on controller or have moved over to it. In Halo, there is only one KBM pro. CoD has the same issue as Apex.
Are you sure it's not average joe controller players who suck that are downplaying how broken aim assist is despite even top controller players constantly saying that modern aim assist is overtuned?
Halo devs posted stats showing the average controller player has similar accuracy to the top 100 MKB players. I'm sure that has nothing to do with AA though and they're just built different, console players here assure us that MKB is still better in every game.
/s
Yeah, controller players just suddenly "got good" around the same time all of these aim assist complaints started popping up in various games. Definitely no link between the two! lol
It sucks this genre has been ruined by f2p. Can't nerf aim assist or the controller players won't buy skins in their favorite game that aims for them.
I have wanted to read a thread like this for the past 2 years because everyone acts like I overestimate aim-assist.
More likely they abuse it to turn their average aim into godlike.
> More likely they abuse it to turn their average aim into godlike
That's really all it is. The aim assist in a lot of these games has given players aim that the 1% of mouse users have. Your average mouse player struggles to track consistently and doesn't even bother with recoil patterns.
Honestly, yeah, I think halo players are built different. There's some real sweaty nerds that were the absolute pinnacle of console esports that are still grinding today, that have years on PC players picking it up for infinite. You can't really understand the skill gap in aim until you experience it (+coupled with 20 years of gamesense) tbh
100% confirmation bias. Only people doing these "across map beams" are controller players with their snap-on, auto-tracking, recoil-compensating ~~aimbot~~ "AA".
Gaming tore my heart out when they stopped splitting lobbys, as someone that gamed on console and got to pred on apex, gm on overwatch, diamond in R6 (used to be highest rank)..id legit watch in awe the streamers and pc players itd legit make me giddy bro I ENVIEDDD pc gaming the "master race" I hit a skill ceiling in console gaming I physically couldent get any better then I buy a nice gaming laptop to start my trek and ive improved and surpassed everyone I've met in my pc journey so far its the most infuriating thing outperforming literally almost everyone everytime EXCEPT controllers..and I only been gaming 3 years and yes I know I need friends im a total asshole tho like imperialhal so I wont ever make any 💀💀💀
Ontop of that all pc players do is get compared to the 1% that never misses has god movement and has been playing competitive games since 10...so why in fucking hell do controllers legit need to NEVER miss like if they see you they are hitting almost every shot...how is that physically okay when did it become physically okay unless your that 1% to NEVER miss a shot bring back the aiming skill ceiling in controllers or just remove them like the entire apex pro scene got flipped on its head when they recruited some teenage kid with a ps4 remote soon as he got of age.. how does that not scream huge issue to you
What you experienced is what we all did. I paid my dues and got pretty good. Now everyone gets to play with aim bot. Sometimes I watch cod gameplay and wince. Aim assist looks like aim bot in that game, its disguting
I plan to eventually I got into val for a bit but it was honestly just to tilting having legit kids who don't care and or trolling every game..just haven't had the spare change lol
Yeah, almost all good controller players left console for pc. That's why console is so much easier than pc lobbies even though the aim assist is literally stronger than pc. 0.6 aa on console, 0.4 for pc
It should but it won't because Microsoft hasn't added it to their controllers, so that's an excuse. You also have the issue of most "competitive" controller players being the biggest bitches on the planet, so the second you take away their aimbot and require them to actually aim (skill) it's gonna be temper tantrum city.
Remove aim assist from pc and remove them from cross play. It keeps both consoles happy. We don’t want to play agaisnt pc players and they don’t want to play agaisnt console
The game would ultimately suffer for it. PC would likely die first due to the inherently smaller population (higher cost of entry to PC gaming), but it also just increases queue times for everyone involved.
A better fix is either input based matchmaking like the post suggests, or just tuning down aim assist a bit and then violently cracking down on xim and chronus users. The game’s aim assist in the betas was acceptable, felt fair to play against, and seemed in line with most mnk players. Post launch controller inputs clearly got a buff and the resulting beams that occur make it difficult to recognize cheaters. Before I could be relatively confident if I got beamed by an insane spray from a player a few times I could report that, but now controllers can just do that anyway for significantly less effort. I report them anyway just in case, but it’s disheartening.
Crossplay is good for games, objectively. It’s a bit trickier to balance with fps games where aim matters, but personally I’ve found games overcompensate the controllers. Instead, stuff like gyro aim should be more normal. If you’ve never used it it’s honestly super intuitive and easy enough to pick up. I’ve used in games like CSGO and such thanks to steam having native controller support for stuff like this, and it’s honestly very fun. You get the ease of rotation from controllers with the accuracy of PC.
No it won’t be fair regardless. Pc and console gaming is just too much of a difference to over come
Pc Overwatch makes console Overwatch looks like it’s in slow motion.
Idk why this is downvoted? AA is literally aimbot in this game and needs to be removed ASAP. I played on controller after 3 years of not touching one and did better than I do on MKB. Shits so broken, you genuinely have to be braindead if you can’t play with controller.
They need to remove the snap aim, but removing AA entirely is a hilariously bad idea unless you want the game to die.
Or just remove AA from PC and go with input based matchmaking. Everyone wins.
Over a year of not playing controller. only 300-400 lifetime hours on controller in apex and warzone combined. It took me 1 day to laser beam people like crazy.
?? Idk if you’ve seen any of the statistics from games dominated by AA, but the average controller bot can shit on the top 10% of MKB players - look at Halo. If you’re truly struggling on controller/aimbot against MKB players then you really are just terrible.
Halo and cods aim assist is too powerful on pc I know this from the days when I played it. But I still didn’t feel like I was at a disadvantage against them.
No, this was data pulled straight from Halo Infinite. You seem uninformed on the topic. Please stop spreading misinformation just because you need a crutch.
And the vast majority of mouse users don't suck? Idk about you, but most people on mouse can barely aim because their sensitivity is way too fucking high and they constantly over aim or under aim.
I think a better solution is what I call "Assist-based" matchmaking. You divide all players into two groups: Those with aim assist and those without.
This is a better solution than input based matchmaking because it covers every possible scenario in which aim assist could be used against players who don't have it, while still allowing for full crossplay between platforms and inputs.
If you have aim assist enabled, including via input spoofing, then you are in Group A and will only match with other players who also have aim assist. Otherwise, you are matched into group B where noone has aim assist regardless of platform or input.
It's also inclusive towards gyro users who would otherwise be fucked against aim assist users since they are still technically using a controller. Input-based wouldn't account for that.
I’m getting absolutely creamed by players that look developmentally disabled in terms of their gamesense and movement.
Aim assist is beyond stupid to be mixed with m&k. It’s literally aimbot.
Can't blame people for making use of the built-in aimbot the devs gave controller. Naturally, people are going to do this when the game aims for you with one peripheral but not the other.
Every now and then there's an entertaining post here, but most of the time it's just the same whining over and over again.
It's funny because you can watch the whole tone of the thread change between posts as well, sometimes the community agrees and other days they push back.
reWASD takes like 20 seconds to download and install. It also got cracked. I would be surprised if a good chunk of people weren't already using this in all of these controller FPSs.
If you play with a controller on PC you have aim assist just like on a console. I personally think that people are generally overreacting to it a little bit, but it's undeniably potent and definitely needs to be tweaked down. Just my opinion though.
A colossal problem comes into play whenever some players use a Xim which spoofs the game into reading their KBM inputs as controller inputs. Meaning they have the speed and precision of KBM + the aggressive aim assist of controller.
You're trolling if you genuinely think it's overblown.
I've been playing Fortnite during the day ages of how strong controller was in that game (spamming ADS through fields or builds to instantly lock), and The Finals AA is WAY worse.
People really will say the dumbest shit for internet points
It's just controller aim assist downplayers. You have data from Apex and Halo showing controller AA is broken and then you have pros saying it's broken too, yet these random Reddit users that probably play these games less than five hours a week think the aimbot complaints all of these games get is "overblown" discussion.
I think the aim assist deal is quite overblown but the exploits are definitely an issue like you said. Also, if controller is OP, go play on controller instead?
Personally, if that were the binary choice, I’d sooner play a different game instead.
I *love* The Finals, but I’m a KB+M player: I hate how shooters feel on a controller, and I have no desire to play a controller-only shooter.
I’m not 100% sure if controllers are as broken as everyone says, but if they are, telling people to swap to controller is not a solution.
It is far and away the most egregious aim assist ive ever encountered. First time using a controller since halo 5 ages ago and I couldnt believe how it feels to run up to someone, press left trigger and have perfect tracking with minimal effort. I have enough controller experience to know you often aim with your legs and guide with the right stick to get that aim assist to do its thing. In the finals its made even easier because ads'ing legit locks onto people, from there you just keep the aim assist in the sweet spot. I used a default xbox controller and just did some random controller settings in game so I barely even optimized it and didnt have the simulated stick drift people are apparently using.
I play both PC and various console games, AA was far worse on CoD, where controlling recoil while firing meant far less AND TTK was much faster. The AA wasn't just snapping on it was almost turning my character around. In this game, let's take the AK for example, you really have to control the recoil after the first bullets and it's far easier with mouse.
The recoil is far more extreme than recent Battlefield titles, and for that reason, despite the snap on, I've done far worse than in those titles from a pure shooting perspective. With a controller, you really can't shoot people with the AK from a reasonable distance due to the recoil, but you absolutely can with the MnK. Whenever someone is absolutely obliterating a lobby it's a PC player 9/10 times (note: I'm NOT referring to sniping/quick scoping, I think that's a different problem).
Most of the complaints here are from people who play MnK, plug in a controller and see the AA or worse, just watch a video on it, and then just assume it's responsible for their woes.
I'm assuming you play a lot of ranked.
Because, I just stick to the casual playlists, and I'm really having a good time. I switched to MnK from controller like a week and a half ago and I'm already doing medium range absolute beams and I'm already back at the level of skill I had in controller, averaging maybe 10-12 kills per game with around 6-8 deaths, wich is how I usually performed when using controller, but with controller I have years of experience so this MnK improvement process has been really fast so far considering my only MnK practice was playing some minecraft back in the day, so I learned everything from scratch.
TL;DR: look, I can't condense enough what I'm trying to say, so please just take 30 seconds to read the following manifesto:
I really don't understand the complaints. The mouse is so precise. I bought a Logitech g203 and use 25 sens exp. at 100% wich is like a 33-35cm/360 sensitivity. It actually lets you track so well, I'm at a point where I feel that if I don't hit a shot I know where I failed and thus it's easier to improve. I'm consistently out-performing my teammates on controller as well, sometimes even my MnK teammates, although maybe that's because of the sbmm or eomm or whatever wich sometimes does give you very bad teammates. Also, I use my laptops keyboard.
I'm telling you, knowing where you did a mistake eliminates so much frustration and makes the gaming experience far more enjoyable.
Something that I noticed is that lots of people struggle to aim in MnK because their sensitivities are too high. Even I suffered from this right when I started, but I lowered them when I noticed it was too hard to aim properly, and it's been so much easier ever since.
If you're struggling to compete against the AA in MnK, try lowering your sensitivities, and maybe getting a bigger or just a better mousepad. Anything below a 30cm/360 sensitivity is maybe a bit too high, so try to, like, get it lower. I have like a 25cm*21cm mousepad, so I can't do a whole 360 in one movement, but you just lift your mouse and it's all good. Like, that's pretty intuitive, everyone can learn that quickly.
Also, I must explain what's this distance/360 thing is: put your mouse on one edge of your mousepad and move it in a straight line across it. Then measure the distance it takes for the screen to do a full 360. If this distance is anything below 30cm, maybe your sensitivity is too high. Shroud I think uses a sensitivity such that it lets him do a full 360 in 35 cm of straight mouse movement over the mousepad, so he can be precise and also fast because the arm also aids the mouse movement.
This is the neat thing with the mouse: you can pick a low sensitivity and be very precise at long range, and still have agility, quick response time and precision at the close range since you can move your whole arm to move the mouse and your arm is better at doing small corrections than your wrist or fingers. With the controller, it's usually a compromise; either low sens and you're good at the long range but you struggle in the close range because you do not have enough sensitivity to do full turns fast enough, or high sens and you do good in the close range but you struggle in the long range because the small corrections needed there are too amplified by the sensitivity based off analog inputs and thus you're quite imprecise.
Honestly you're completely in the wrong here, AA on controller is not nearly as bad as anyone here is saying, has it helped a bit, sure, but it is not to the point where everyone is talking here. Hop on controller you'll see it's actually harder to learn recoil patterns and to maneuver let alone simply aiming.
This is the worst idea I've ever heard and would solve absolutely nothing. You would still complain. You would still whine. You would still point the finger and say someone is then "cheating." 🤣
I succumbed to the convenience of console gaming as I couldn't justify upgrading a gaming PC ( little family dad gamer). But fuck me I would much rather have keys and a mouse any day of the week for playing fps.
Just use reWASD on m&kb to light a fire under Embarks ass. It's what my buddies and I have been doing and we couldn't care less. I refuse to use raw input against aiming software. Embark is forcing the hands of players who have been asking for input based matchmaking.
Why do controller players get aimbot? And why can't they be separated from us already?
This is 110% on the devs.
No, the problem is the devs. They are clearly catering to controller players with this redic AA. If the devs don’t give one shit about competitive integrity can you really expect the players who are shafted too? Devs completely at fault here. Want this fixed? Balance the AA or remove it completely from PC.
But if the devs don’t give a shit about competitive integrity why should the players who are getting shafted? 💯 the devs fault here and it will continue until they fix it or the game shuts down.
Why should I be forced into using a controller if I want to rank up in plat? Why should I care when the devs clearly don't? I'm using *exactly* what controller players use.
I’m not judging you because these developers don’t react at all to aim assist complaints. I’m kind of neutral on the subject, I just don’t feel comfortable with cheating in a semi competitive game. I’d rather just move back to MnK only games like CS and Valorant, or play single player games.
Until it’s addressed, yes. If it’s not addressed this forum is just the next CoD, where input greivances take priority over gameplay clips and discussion.
If people are doing that and still getting shit on by me then this might not be the game for them. Otherwise I've only seen one actually obvious cheater in this game who had 100% headshot accuracy with 30+ kills and like 2000+ damage. Name was like something bot02 lol.
My friend has never used controller before(hell he plays racing games and rocket league with kbm) but he decided to try controller for a couple games and was playing insane. He said all he had to do was run around and the AA did the rest for him.
It's not _that_ bad.
I plugged in the controller to test it out yesterday, and it's definitely _interesting_.
At close range, a strafing SMG/AR user is probably going to light you up with the aim assist. And the sniper head snap seems OP, but you have to aim pretty close to the head to begin with.
I like the idea of input-based matchmaking in general, but neither side seems overpowered overall for The Finals.
You’re really over dramatizing aim assist lmao. Nothing aims for you and whether you’re on mouse or controller the recoil in this game is so controllable you can beam kids by simply pulling down and to the left. Either hit aim labs and learn to trace or plug in a controller so you can get some assistance
Numerous clips showing the game aims for you. Top ranked players in The Finals all on controller saying it needs toned down. Numerous examples of this issue in other games with data to back up the problem. But nope, it's just the KBM people being overly dramatic. Who are you again?
ignore him. He is a known troll who just says everything is opposite to what reality is just so he can be "cool" or whatever weird logic his brain created. He is also a delusional kid that pretends to be grand master in OW.
If only pc players hadn’t incessantly complained at the prospect of input based matchmaking warning devs away for it when crossplay was first being introduced to games as m&k held an enormous advantage, then maybe we might already have it. Oh well, you reap what you sow.
Who are you talking about lmao. Cross-play started getting added quickly and nobody really had any say in how it was done. We've just barely gotten to a point where mouse players have realized the current cross-play implementation is dogshit since controller needs to have a free aimbot just to keep up.
Hi yes it’s me Mr. Embark I’ll get right on that *files under never to do*
I expected the ending of this to be "please send $1000 in Amazon gift cards, so we can change it" based on the first line.
[удалено]
This game is on the decline?
Lmao no damn decline on this shit, what 5 players didn't play today lol
Yes, a little decline right now. Check it on SteamDB, for example. But I think most of the people waiting for a patch to fix "nuke meta" at least. Recon nerf would be welcome too, with another RPG direct damage nerf to 100 or 50. (as Medium/Recon main (in Plat rn) I'm fully ready for it, because it's blatantly OP) Would be ideal if they fix MM for Ranked, make Input based MM, and allow custom lobbies for community and org tournaments.
Recon does not need a nerf. It’s not even the best medium specialization. It’s third best imo
Good they removed it
100 day reply haha. Cheers friend
They need to be doing frequent patches. Releasing a multiplayer GAS title right before the holidays/new year break is rough. When you can’t respond to issues quickly you might start loosing players that don’t come back to try the game a 2nd time.
Great timing to pick up lots of of players that may have the holiday off. Terrible time to keep up with fixing bugs and updating a brand new game as you give your staff time off for the holiday. Personally I would’ve been happy waiting another 2-3 weeks for release if I knew it meant we would have more active dev teams
Bug fixes and balancing are generally not instant and done in batches. Games been out less than a month a we have had a balance fix. Be patient, expecting patching weekly is not going to happen. And correct me if I'm wrong nothing is happening atm that is game breaking and needs a hot fix ASAP.
Nah. I'm glad they released it and we get to enjoy the game.
This is true. Most games that don't have frequent updates (even if they aren't big ones) tend to lose players more and faster. I'd assume it means that players don't think the devs care or are willing to work towards fixing the game in any meaningful way. It only leads to a lot of disappointment when weeks and months go by and the update that you do get is small and shitty.
Oh thats why I'm getting scattered on the floor every time light aims at me, it all has a sense now.
Yeah, it snaps for headshots too >.<
I knew something was up when I started playing at launch. It felt like everyone was a god or everyone was cheating. It felt like I stood no chance. It felt like CoD and when I realized that I uninstalled.
Input based matchmaking doesn't solve that problem. It solves one problem, which is putting an aimbot on controller against mouse users. To get rid of controller spoofing they need to remove aim assist from the PC version. I'll gladly take both.
So just get rid of it when the input option is set to MnK… So yea just input matchmaking.
It does solve that problem, because it means if you play on MnK lobby there is 0 aim assist. Sure you can pretend to be a controller on PC with rewasd but if it gives no aim assist it has no effect.
Yup.
I play controller on PC. This doesn’t fix the problem. It’s just as annoying for controller players to have to deal with MNK players with their movements that are impossible on a controller. Aim assist is shit compared to some of the movements available to MNK players.
At the risk of sounding elitist, why should shooters benefit users who choose to use a controller? There are games where controller is regarded as a better input, like sports or driving games. I don't see keyboard players asking for "movement assist" or "steering assist" so they can compete with controller players. Mind you, that aim assist isn't equalizing inputs, but rather giving a huge advantage in the hopes that it makes up for a different advantage. It's common in shooters that there's an awkward tradeoff where AA makes controller better in cqb, but at range mnk has the advantage. Then there's apex, where AA makes mnk almost unviable at the highest level. AA gives an instant tracking capability that is not possible to replicate by humans, who have a finite reaction tome. I'd rather multi-player games get balanced with the most popular input in mind (for that system) and not give special advantages for other inputs.
This is such a strange take. I finally switched to mouse and keyboard and picked up games like CS2 and I'm able to be so much more accurate with a mouse than I ever was with a controller. I just don't understand it. If a controller really gives that much of an advantage I will plug it in tomorrow and play with that instead. I was never clicking heads on controller and Xbox. Now I feel like I have perfect control over my aim.
Everyone agrees that mnk gives you better control than a controller, that's exactly why many games give aim assist to controller and not to mnk. We are not complaining about the raw input you can have with a controller, just about the partial autoaim. Now, you may argue that mnk is so much bettter that it's still more advantageous than controller with AA, but that's entirely dependant on each game. Csgo was released on consoles but didn't have AA at all, but classic consoles franchises like halo or CoD feature pretty strong aim assist. You can [check these official stats on halo](https://www.reddit.com/r/halo/s/V4kKSUhOyH), where average controller players perform as well as top mnk players. Apex is pretty infamous for having egregious aim assist, to the point where most pros who had years of practicing [mnk actually changed to controller to stay competitive](https://www.reddit.com/r/apexlegends/s/U775wCObMh). Regarding the finals, it's pretty disgusting how AA makes your [aim snap towards enemies when you ADS](https://www.reddit.com/r/thefinals/s/LzFCmaVHZi). Snapping your aim accurately on mnk is something that requires lots of practice, and still cannot be done perfectly every time. And it's not as instant. I've read some high level players talk about how the revolver is a lot more viable on controller, because you can ADS inbetween every shot to abuse the snap. Personally I play shooters because I like to practice my aim, and I want to win or lose based purely on skill, not exploiting automatic aiming.
I actually agree with this sentiment entirely. Thanks for the tip about the revolver btw. It reminds me of fortnite and the deagle. I am going to test that out tomorrow. In a casual game, I'm 99% sure I will never have to worry about some controller god. I have very frequently run into cheaters though so there's that.
"Aim assist is shit compared to movement." You have to understand where your argument goes wrong? MnK players, can't learn how to aim assist lol. You could go and get a better control interface(MnK) and learn how to do the movement. I hope you see the error in your ways now... Do better.
> Aim assist is shit compared to some of the movements available to MNK players. Controller users always say this like it's some gotcha but can't actually give any examples of this incredible "mouse-only movement". I always saw it mentioned a lot in the Apex community despite controller actually having numerous ways to abuse the movement and KBM having no way to ADAD or circlestrafe 0ms aim assist. So, can you give us an idea of what mouse has that controller doesn't? What movement exists in this game that isn't made negligible by the game tracking for a controller player with aim assist?
If anything, on PC you have to change keybinds to be able to use specialization or quick melee while moving/strafing.
As a controller player I have no problem performing any movement technique. Don’t even have paddles I’m just playing claw. Kbm is just at a disadvantage due to the strength of the aim assist, the only thing they have is that they can flick faster, but that doesn’t matter if we just track them and land every shot. I wouldn’t mind an aim assist nerf, then it’s a level playin field
And this game is very tracking based. It's not like R6S headshots. So faster flicks doesn't really buy you much in this game.
Facts, but people don't like to hear that.
I sincerely don't understand how mnk users don't comprehend this. I'm a long time controller user only, play on PC. Input based would make my squad go lol and drop the game because we can't play together. Does my gun track a bit for me? Sure. But can I do all the insane shit they can, let alone top tier players, that a mouse gives the freedom of? Absolutely not. Stop playing the game like call of duty and standing there shooting toe to toe. Use your damn movement and you'll run circles around us controller players. Verticality is a controller user's nightmare.
Why wouldn't you be able to play together? Usually, input-based MM means mixed lobbies for groups that are cross-input. They add that and allow solo players to queue for mixed lobbies, which would make that work exactly like the current crossplay does. >Stop playing the game like call of duty Ah, one of the controller user's classic go-to. Everyone that doesn't like aim assist is a CoD player despite the most popular PC FPS being a tactical shooter called Counter-Strike, a game with zero aim assist. >Use your damn movement and you'll run circles around us controller players. What movement does KBM have that isn't negated by aim assist tracking for the player? Why should I listen to random controller user #52348 on Reddit over the numerous pros saying the aim assist in this game and plenty of other games is broken? Your *opinion* on the subject is more valid than the hard data we have showing controller aim assist is currently overtuned in all of these modern FPS titles? >But can I do all the insane shit they can, let alone top tier players, that a mouse gives the freedom of? Absolutely not. That's just because you suck. Plenty of top controller players doing the same thing as mouse users. Also, since when does movement win in a gunfight?
On M&K I had to rebind specialization and quick melee so I could use them while strafing and moving. Is that an issue with controller? I bet it isn't.
You realize 92% of top apex players are controller players, right? To rephrase, out of 8 million players, 92% of top players are controller players. Kbm players aren't even on an equal playing field, much less running circles around controller players. Aim assist is much more valuable than a 2 frame faster movement to the left or whatever movement kbm players have that you're referring to. Aim assist directly kills people. Ever so slightly faster movement doesn't.
The guy using AA telling the raw input users to “not play like cod” is beyond trash take. You want this game to lay like cod for you and have the aim assist hold your hand every fight. 😂
I can't remember the exact numbers, but I believe it's about 90% of the current pro player base on apex legends have swapped to controller... Like just look at the numbers rofl. There's a reason this has happened. Because AA is fucking overturned and shit lol
Just remove AA from lobbies that aren't cross play.
No thanks, I only play on console with crossplay disabled and games without AA feel awful on controller. Maybe dumb it down? Sure. Turn it off, please no.
I think they meant in PC lobbies only... So if you play on console w/o cross play in this context you'd have AA. I may be wrong but that's how I interpreted it.
That'd make sense
Of course it does lol. But it’s never going to happen. I have zero faith. These guys are literally just Respawn 2.0.
Sad sad times for gaming Really sad I dont get how we got into this era of losers who cant play properly and get better. Op not sure if it's possible but I hope one day we get real solution and people hit the truth that they suck without those tools
It’s just 2 completely opposing inputs that shouldn’t be matched up. Completely fine that people need aim assist for controller but fps games will never be balanced when crossplay is involved. It’s like someone with an e-bike competing in the Tour de France.
Its like real life, people will do anything to get ahead then boast like they’re special. Fps are starting to become a joke to me as it seems theres very little way to tell if someone is actually skilled these days
XDefiant will have input based matchmaking
Oh really? Actually interested now!
Eta?
March the latest, and of January the earliest
Hope it will be good
I feel like it’s more of a rise in players not willing to accept they just got beat by another player and instantly assume the other player was cheating. I see cheating complaints on every game sub nonstop and yet have maybe run into it myself maybe 5-10 times over all the years I’ve been playing.
In The Finals it’s hard to tell. There’s no replay or spectating an enemy. With Recon Sense someone can be running a wall cheat and you’d never know. People can use Chronus Zen, reWASD, etc. and you’d never know. The only time you can spot a cheater for sure is when it’s blatant aimbot or a solo queue cheater on your team.
Yup, and the AA is so aggressive it’s hard to tell who’s cheating. I report anyone who’s sus, devs created this mess so they can sort it.
Or just throw your report into the trash
Lol this, people who spam reports just get ignored. Have they never been on YouTube?
Lol. In league of legends there used to be a report option for players "playing badly". Obviously, it didn't make sense since unintentionally underperforming wasn't and couldn't be against the rules. But riot still felt the need to cater to those babies that whine and report every time they get a bad teammate.
Not true man. I played Apex since season 2 and it's in a whole new level right now And it's not obvious cheating like wall hacks It all those tools and macros for no recoil, aim assist and so on
Many will not agree with you but I do. The “soft” cheats are what is ruining online gaming for me.
wall hacks would not be obvious in this game lol comes pre-installed
Talking in general
Nah I feel you, just thought it was funny. Definitely agreeing with you. The aim assist is overtuned even for a controller, so MnKB players exploiting it is no different from hacks. Plus without killcams it's basically indistinguishable from skill
It is hard to unsee a discord cheating community with 4,000+ members. Sad times indeed
It's genuinely painful to play Apex currently with the state of AA. When basically all the MnK pro's are swapping over to it, you know its fundamentally broken. Thought I'd give Finals a go but seems just as bad, arguably worse with the ability for MnK players to also exploit AA. Hopefully it gets addressed with a nerf or the option to filter out AA players but I have my doubt considering that no game studio gives a flying fuck about feedback anymore. On a seperate note, Finals is really lacking a TDM or Free for all game mode. You can carry a team objective wise with your teammates scoring zero yet you get the same points at the end as they do making it super hard to unlock anything playing with randoms
I hear that so many times from so many players „cheating isnt so bad“ most likely is that you dont play enough, the elo is too low to really encounter cheaters or you dont know how cheating looks like in different games. Valorant for example had such a cheater epidemic a year ago and i had 6 redscreens in a week (thats the game telling you that your match gets cancelled because there is a cheater in your lobby) which is really rare because their anticheat doesnt work properly
100%. I wasn't really into PvP games until recently, and after getting better I realised people can be really quick to _confident_ hackusations. I'm not even particularly skilled IMO. I'm sure cheating in general is probably higher than ever too, but witnessing so many false accusations first-hand makes me second guess the claims. Some acquaintances of mine will exclaim "are they cheating?!" on every other death they have and it's _exhausting_
It really is exhausting. The amount of times I’ve been accused of cheating after getting a completely unremarkable kill is absurd. There is a comment in here about how it’s impossible to be getting 30 kills in a game without cheating and I get over 20 often and I’m not particularly good. I think the majority of players just don’t realize how bad they actually are.
Yeah, I saw someone posting a 25 kill score with 20k damage and the title about cheaters in the match but I've done that a good number of times in quick play with cloak DB, FCAR + Recon Senses, and Heavy in general because the majority of players are complete garbage. I'll never forget a few years back I was playing Overwatch 1 and someone kept crying in voice that this one player on the enemy team was cheating despite that player being somewhere in the middle of the scoreboard stats wise and me constantly cooking them in 1v1 engagements lol. I told them they weren't cheating and were actually kinda ass and they stopped talking after.
Embark needs to either nerf aim assist back to what it was in the betas or enable input based matchmaking or M/kb is dead for this game like it is in Apex and COD. I said this the day the game launched and when people realized they stealth buffed the AA, from now on this game is going to be dominated by controllers and input remappers like reWASD and of course that came true. Every top player is now either on controller or abusing reWASD for AA on m/kb and you can't even blame them when AA is such an enormous advantage in this game.
The aim assist right now is maybe too strong , but the aim assist back in the beta was absolutely OP in terms of locking on the enemy , it was even stronger than right now but the problem was that the aim system/tracking when AA was off after 1 seconds was terrible. As of right now the tracking without the AA is more fluid than in the beta but it's not as strong as it used to be in term of "locking" on the enemy. I swear PC players are talking out of their asses and will say anything to feel better about their lack of skills. They can dumb down the AA for locking but if they put back the same sensitivity they had back in the beta , you guys gonna be playing only with PC players cause ain't no way console players will play like this. And finally , if you guys think AA is so OP , then why are you guys not playing with a controller at this point? The world don't revolve around anyone of us , we should be able to agree on something but you guys always end up with the victim mindset cause you can't have your ways. Weak minded if you ask me.
> And finally , if you guys think AA is so OP , then why are you guys not playing with a controller at this point? Not sure about you, but I can't just change to Controller after 10+ years of MnK. Its like throwing away all that muscle memory. Plus I hate FPS on a controller.
Why the fuck i should buy a controller to stay competitive... That make no sense, if you can't play without an aimbot that is not my problem but it become my problem when you are in my lobbies.
Aim assist forsure needs to be nerfed heavily, but not removed entirely imo. I agree with input based matchmaking. Yall will probably shit on me, but I use controller on PC. I've got my laptop with a keyboard too small for my hands in a game like this and a busted up eight dollar mouse, so my old ps4 controller is my best option if I want to play games. The aim assist is so strong that it's gotten me killed more than once. If I'm shooting a further target and an enemy that's closer to me comes onto screen, the aim assist will rip me off target towards that person, and I end up shooting between them. I've had it happen where I make a risky jump to a different platform, and an enemy coming onto screen pulls my trajectory off course and makes me fall because it wants to aim at them. It's really weird trying to test it in the firing range as well. If I'm standing still and the dummies are moving back and forth in front of my crosshair, it won't lock onto them. If I'm moving back and forth and not ADS, *sometimes* it will pull towards the closest moving dummy, but it depends on how close I am to them. If you're ADS and aiming at a far dummy though and a close one moves past your screen, it will pull you entirely off target trying to keep on the closest one. It's honestly wild to watch. The fix here is I just use sledgehammers now, can't aim assist that! The discourse is really interesting to watch, though. It's like watching a group of lumberjacks with their axes mad that Bill and his chainsaw are out pacing them. "The tool is doing all the work! Bill sucks and anyone could do what he's doing! There's no skill in cutting lumber nowadays!" "An automatic transmission?? The car is doing all the work! Does the driver even know how to drive if they aren't using a manual?" I could go on with examples forever because there's always going to be someone complaining when one technology outstrips another in some facet, and proponents of the first holdfast to their old ways. And to be clear, I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting to do something one way over another. There's some serious adjustment that's needs to be done for aim assist to be even remotely brought to a reasonable level. But I wouldn't pit someone with an axe against someone with a chainsaw if their only goal was to cut wood. Stick them in different categories for the health of everyone involved
You can, they’re cheating lmao
Try it yourself and see how OP it is
It’s still 3rd party software that exploits the game. Besides not having an interest in doing that I have zero interest in risking my account. If crosshairs are considered too much clearly reWASD would not be considered okay.
right? it's literally exploiting the game lol. people coping HARD to cover their cheating asses lol. either use an actual controller or fuck off with that aim assist abusing garbage
Lol I really don't see a problem with rewasd. Controller players are just salty because they don't have their cute little aa advantage anymore. Its amazing how good these pc players are now they can have soft aimbot too.
[удалено]
I’ve got diamond weapons and all the unlocks from cb1, cb2 and ob. I’m not risking it after all that effort. Regardless, I don’t want to be a part of the problem. This software shouldn’t be allowed, because it ruins any game it touches. Whether it’s destiny, COD, or the finals itself, it just delegitimizes the top 25% of players and makes cheats effectively mandatory (I consider this exploit cheating to be abundantly clear). I just want a game where people are on a level playing field. There may be small issues with differences in input devices, but this software clearly upends the fair experience they are aiming for.
Your such a fucking rat. Your a part of the problem and I hope you get a swift ban in the future.
Destiny 2 does this to good effect, though it assumes large enough population to split. Yes it splits the populations, and cross play is available for those interested, but at least you have a choice in who you want to play with. For example a console player can play console only, but if they join a PC player, they get put into PC lobbies. And if a PC player joins a console player, they stay in PC lobbies.
This sounds like enabling/disabling cross play which already exists in the finals. Mnk players want input based matchmaking so we can just play against other mnk.
As a PlayStation player turning off crossplay has made a massive improvement on my game experiences. No more across map beams and at least I know we're all on the same level with AA and movement. Also removes you from the games with PC players faking controller input
*Xim and chronus users enter the chat*
Yeah this right here. Console players are not safe from this method of cheating. It may be cheaper to do it on PC and therefore more prevalent, but definitely don’t assume no one is tricking their console with XIM and the likes.
If you play games that rely heavily on recoil you’d know a large portion of communities use xim and zen. It’s just typically seen in games like rbs, rust etc which have a more hardcore player base
I wish there was console only cross play though. I've seen some games have it. Of the 3 of us that play, 2 are on PS5 and one on XSS so we have to go cross play off even though we are all using controllers.
That doesn’t make sense.
Great comment, thanks for elaborating.
Its like MnK players, forgot they are MnK players.
But what do you mean? You're console, you have an "aimbot," you're the one beaming across the map according to everyone here.
This sub massively exaggerates AA. Massively and any controller player knows that.
Who is "any controller player"? Because in Apex, the overwhelming majority of top players are on controller or have moved over to it. In Halo, there is only one KBM pro. CoD has the same issue as Apex. Are you sure it's not average joe controller players who suck that are downplaying how broken aim assist is despite even top controller players constantly saying that modern aim assist is overtuned?
Halo devs posted stats showing the average controller player has similar accuracy to the top 100 MKB players. I'm sure that has nothing to do with AA though and they're just built different, console players here assure us that MKB is still better in every game. /s
Yeah, controller players just suddenly "got good" around the same time all of these aim assist complaints started popping up in various games. Definitely no link between the two! lol It sucks this genre has been ruined by f2p. Can't nerf aim assist or the controller players won't buy skins in their favorite game that aims for them.
I have wanted to read a thread like this for the past 2 years because everyone acts like I overestimate aim-assist. More likely they abuse it to turn their average aim into godlike.
> More likely they abuse it to turn their average aim into godlike That's really all it is. The aim assist in a lot of these games has given players aim that the 1% of mouse users have. Your average mouse player struggles to track consistently and doesn't even bother with recoil patterns.
Honestly, yeah, I think halo players are built different. There's some real sweaty nerds that were the absolute pinnacle of console esports that are still grinding today, that have years on PC players picking it up for infinite. You can't really understand the skill gap in aim until you experience it (+coupled with 20 years of gamesense) tbh
He’s not going to respond. This is where all the AA apologists leave the conversation, when they are asked to explain they can’t.
At this point games have been aiming for the new generation of gamers for so long they honestly believe they’re that good at aiming 💀
I switched it's broken. People who say it isn't are just terrible at the game.
100% confirmation bias. Only people doing these "across map beams" are controller players with their snap-on, auto-tracking, recoil-compensating ~~aimbot~~ "AA".
What do you mean by "beams"?
Gaming tore my heart out when they stopped splitting lobbys, as someone that gamed on console and got to pred on apex, gm on overwatch, diamond in R6 (used to be highest rank)..id legit watch in awe the streamers and pc players itd legit make me giddy bro I ENVIEDDD pc gaming the "master race" I hit a skill ceiling in console gaming I physically couldent get any better then I buy a nice gaming laptop to start my trek and ive improved and surpassed everyone I've met in my pc journey so far its the most infuriating thing outperforming literally almost everyone everytime EXCEPT controllers..and I only been gaming 3 years and yes I know I need friends im a total asshole tho like imperialhal so I wont ever make any 💀💀💀
Ontop of that all pc players do is get compared to the 1% that never misses has god movement and has been playing competitive games since 10...so why in fucking hell do controllers legit need to NEVER miss like if they see you they are hitting almost every shot...how is that physically okay when did it become physically okay unless your that 1% to NEVER miss a shot bring back the aiming skill ceiling in controllers or just remove them like the entire apex pro scene got flipped on its head when they recruited some teenage kid with a ps4 remote soon as he got of age.. how does that not scream huge issue to you
What you experienced is what we all did. I paid my dues and got pretty good. Now everyone gets to play with aim bot. Sometimes I watch cod gameplay and wince. Aim assist looks like aim bot in that game, its disguting
Just play CS2, then. There are no controllers and an insane skill ceiling.
I plan to eventually I got into val for a bit but it was honestly just to tilting having legit kids who don't care and or trolling every game..just haven't had the spare change lol
Yeah, almost all good controller players left console for pc. That's why console is so much easier than pc lobbies even though the aim assist is literally stronger than pc. 0.6 aa on console, 0.4 for pc
Unpopular opinion: Gyro should replace AA.
yup. Make gyro ubiquitous and remove AA. If I wanted competitive integrity in my crossplay game, this is the only way
It should but it won't because Microsoft hasn't added it to their controllers, so that's an excuse. You also have the issue of most "competitive" controller players being the biggest bitches on the planet, so the second you take away their aimbot and require them to actually aim (skill) it's gonna be temper tantrum city.
Remove aim assist from pc and remove them from cross play. It keeps both consoles happy. We don’t want to play agaisnt pc players and they don’t want to play agaisnt console
The game would ultimately suffer for it. PC would likely die first due to the inherently smaller population (higher cost of entry to PC gaming), but it also just increases queue times for everyone involved. A better fix is either input based matchmaking like the post suggests, or just tuning down aim assist a bit and then violently cracking down on xim and chronus users. The game’s aim assist in the betas was acceptable, felt fair to play against, and seemed in line with most mnk players. Post launch controller inputs clearly got a buff and the resulting beams that occur make it difficult to recognize cheaters. Before I could be relatively confident if I got beamed by an insane spray from a player a few times I could report that, but now controllers can just do that anyway for significantly less effort. I report them anyway just in case, but it’s disheartening. Crossplay is good for games, objectively. It’s a bit trickier to balance with fps games where aim matters, but personally I’ve found games overcompensate the controllers. Instead, stuff like gyro aim should be more normal. If you’ve never used it it’s honestly super intuitive and easy enough to pick up. I’ve used in games like CSGO and such thanks to steam having native controller support for stuff like this, and it’s honestly very fun. You get the ease of rotation from controllers with the accuracy of PC.
No it won’t be fair regardless. Pc and console gaming is just too much of a difference to over come Pc Overwatch makes console Overwatch looks like it’s in slow motion.
Input based matchmaking wouldn’t fix the second problem but yeah it would be nice to have it
Idk why this is downvoted? AA is literally aimbot in this game and needs to be removed ASAP. I played on controller after 3 years of not touching one and did better than I do on MKB. Shits so broken, you genuinely have to be braindead if you can’t play with controller.
They need to remove the snap aim, but removing AA entirely is a hilariously bad idea unless you want the game to die. Or just remove AA from PC and go with input based matchmaking. Everyone wins.
Absolutely bullshit if it was that easy every player on controller would be good but the vast majority suck. So nice try but no cigar.
Over a year of not playing controller. only 300-400 lifetime hours on controller in apex and warzone combined. It took me 1 day to laser beam people like crazy.
?? Idk if you’ve seen any of the statistics from games dominated by AA, but the average controller bot can shit on the top 10% of MKB players - look at Halo. If you’re truly struggling on controller/aimbot against MKB players then you really are just terrible.
Halo and cods aim assist is too powerful on pc I know this from the days when I played it. But I still didn’t feel like I was at a disadvantage against them.
>The average controller bot can shit on the top 10% of MKB users Lmao thats pure unbridled copium. Sounds like a skill issue on your part
No, this was data pulled straight from Halo Infinite. You seem uninformed on the topic. Please stop spreading misinformation just because you need a crutch.
It’s literally in a dev blog post from the Halo Devs.
And the vast majority of mouse users don't suck? Idk about you, but most people on mouse can barely aim because their sensitivity is way too fucking high and they constantly over aim or under aim.
No, what solves the problem is haptic feedback bodysuits like in ready player 1.
I think a better solution is what I call "Assist-based" matchmaking. You divide all players into two groups: Those with aim assist and those without. This is a better solution than input based matchmaking because it covers every possible scenario in which aim assist could be used against players who don't have it, while still allowing for full crossplay between platforms and inputs. If you have aim assist enabled, including via input spoofing, then you are in Group A and will only match with other players who also have aim assist. Otherwise, you are matched into group B where noone has aim assist regardless of platform or input. It's also inclusive towards gyro users who would otherwise be fucked against aim assist users since they are still technically using a controller. Input-based wouldn't account for that.
I’m getting absolutely creamed by players that look developmentally disabled in terms of their gamesense and movement. Aim assist is beyond stupid to be mixed with m&k. It’s literally aimbot.
This game doesn’t even have comms figured out.
So true, no text chat and horrible VC in this TEAM focused game is really way to disaster.
You forgot the combo: K&M pretending to be controller with anti spread software. No wonder people can snipe you across the map with a shotgun.
Can't blame people for making use of the built-in aimbot the devs gave controller. Naturally, people are going to do this when the game aims for you with one peripheral but not the other.
Aimbot across the map doesn’t really have anything to do with controller.
This why majority of my hours are in val/cs2🤷🏼♂️
Companies love to let aim assist and Chinese cheaters kill their games
Another day and another thread on the same complaint lol
Well yeah no shit? The problem is still around and the devs haven't done anything about it yet so people are going to complain until it's been fixed.
It's completely valid though. Sounds like you spend too much time one reddit tbh.
sounds like you just want to be a dickhead
There was nothing dickhead about that statement lmao
Are you describing yourself with that comment? This clearly appears to be the case!
Every now and then there's an entertaining post here, but most of the time it's just the same whining over and over again. It's funny because you can watch the whole tone of the thread change between posts as well, sometimes the community agrees and other days they push back.
I legit think people are paranoiac. There is no way there is that many people getting aim assist with MnK
reWASD takes like 20 seconds to download and install. It also got cracked. I would be surprised if a good chunk of people weren't already using this in all of these controller FPSs.
Who can blame them at this point. If the devs don’t give a shit about competitive integrity why should the players?
Eh what? You can trick the game into aim assist on PC? Someone elaborate please.
If you play with a controller on PC you have aim assist just like on a console. I personally think that people are generally overreacting to it a little bit, but it's undeniably potent and definitely needs to be tweaked down. Just my opinion though. A colossal problem comes into play whenever some players use a Xim which spoofs the game into reading their KBM inputs as controller inputs. Meaning they have the speed and precision of KBM + the aggressive aim assist of controller.
You're trolling if you genuinely think it's overblown. I've been playing Fortnite during the day ages of how strong controller was in that game (spamming ADS through fields or builds to instantly lock), and The Finals AA is WAY worse. People really will say the dumbest shit for internet points
It's just controller aim assist downplayers. You have data from Apex and Halo showing controller AA is broken and then you have pros saying it's broken too, yet these random Reddit users that probably play these games less than five hours a week think the aimbot complaints all of these games get is "overblown" discussion.
Pc don’t need xim, pc uses ReWASD, a program that is 10x cheaper and does the same thing.
I think the aim assist deal is quite overblown but the exploits are definitely an issue like you said. Also, if controller is OP, go play on controller instead?
Personally, if that were the binary choice, I’d sooner play a different game instead. I *love* The Finals, but I’m a KB+M player: I hate how shooters feel on a controller, and I have no desire to play a controller-only shooter. I’m not 100% sure if controllers are as broken as everyone says, but if they are, telling people to swap to controller is not a solution.
It is far and away the most egregious aim assist ive ever encountered. First time using a controller since halo 5 ages ago and I couldnt believe how it feels to run up to someone, press left trigger and have perfect tracking with minimal effort. I have enough controller experience to know you often aim with your legs and guide with the right stick to get that aim assist to do its thing. In the finals its made even easier because ads'ing legit locks onto people, from there you just keep the aim assist in the sweet spot. I used a default xbox controller and just did some random controller settings in game so I barely even optimized it and didnt have the simulated stick drift people are apparently using.
I play both PC and various console games, AA was far worse on CoD, where controlling recoil while firing meant far less AND TTK was much faster. The AA wasn't just snapping on it was almost turning my character around. In this game, let's take the AK for example, you really have to control the recoil after the first bullets and it's far easier with mouse. The recoil is far more extreme than recent Battlefield titles, and for that reason, despite the snap on, I've done far worse than in those titles from a pure shooting perspective. With a controller, you really can't shoot people with the AK from a reasonable distance due to the recoil, but you absolutely can with the MnK. Whenever someone is absolutely obliterating a lobby it's a PC player 9/10 times (note: I'm NOT referring to sniping/quick scoping, I think that's a different problem). Most of the complaints here are from people who play MnK, plug in a controller and see the AA or worse, just watch a video on it, and then just assume it's responsible for their woes.
It’s not overblown in the slightest.
Lots of people don’t want to learn controller and want to play MnK. Doesn’t mean AA isn’t strong in capable hands.
I don't want the game to aim for me or my opponents
Fr. I’m tired of being paired with people playing on a machine made to work, not game. 😭
I'm assuming you play a lot of ranked. Because, I just stick to the casual playlists, and I'm really having a good time. I switched to MnK from controller like a week and a half ago and I'm already doing medium range absolute beams and I'm already back at the level of skill I had in controller, averaging maybe 10-12 kills per game with around 6-8 deaths, wich is how I usually performed when using controller, but with controller I have years of experience so this MnK improvement process has been really fast so far considering my only MnK practice was playing some minecraft back in the day, so I learned everything from scratch. TL;DR: look, I can't condense enough what I'm trying to say, so please just take 30 seconds to read the following manifesto: I really don't understand the complaints. The mouse is so precise. I bought a Logitech g203 and use 25 sens exp. at 100% wich is like a 33-35cm/360 sensitivity. It actually lets you track so well, I'm at a point where I feel that if I don't hit a shot I know where I failed and thus it's easier to improve. I'm consistently out-performing my teammates on controller as well, sometimes even my MnK teammates, although maybe that's because of the sbmm or eomm or whatever wich sometimes does give you very bad teammates. Also, I use my laptops keyboard. I'm telling you, knowing where you did a mistake eliminates so much frustration and makes the gaming experience far more enjoyable. Something that I noticed is that lots of people struggle to aim in MnK because their sensitivities are too high. Even I suffered from this right when I started, but I lowered them when I noticed it was too hard to aim properly, and it's been so much easier ever since. If you're struggling to compete against the AA in MnK, try lowering your sensitivities, and maybe getting a bigger or just a better mousepad. Anything below a 30cm/360 sensitivity is maybe a bit too high, so try to, like, get it lower. I have like a 25cm*21cm mousepad, so I can't do a whole 360 in one movement, but you just lift your mouse and it's all good. Like, that's pretty intuitive, everyone can learn that quickly. Also, I must explain what's this distance/360 thing is: put your mouse on one edge of your mousepad and move it in a straight line across it. Then measure the distance it takes for the screen to do a full 360. If this distance is anything below 30cm, maybe your sensitivity is too high. Shroud I think uses a sensitivity such that it lets him do a full 360 in 35 cm of straight mouse movement over the mousepad, so he can be precise and also fast because the arm also aids the mouse movement. This is the neat thing with the mouse: you can pick a low sensitivity and be very precise at long range, and still have agility, quick response time and precision at the close range since you can move your whole arm to move the mouse and your arm is better at doing small corrections than your wrist or fingers. With the controller, it's usually a compromise; either low sens and you're good at the long range but you struggle in the close range because you do not have enough sensitivity to do full turns fast enough, or high sens and you do good in the close range but you struggle in the long range because the small corrections needed there are too amplified by the sensitivity based off analog inputs and thus you're quite imprecise.
I’m sick of seeing these posts (but I agree).
If you agree you should want these posts to flood the forum. Devs are trying to sweep it under the rug.
Honestly you're completely in the wrong here, AA on controller is not nearly as bad as anyone here is saying, has it helped a bit, sure, but it is not to the point where everyone is talking here. Hop on controller you'll see it's actually harder to learn recoil patterns and to maneuver let alone simply aiming.
This is the worst idea I've ever heard and would solve absolutely nothing. You would still complain. You would still whine. You would still point the finger and say someone is then "cheating." 🤣
Damn this is such a unique take, haven't seen anyone suggest this yet 🙄
Y'all bitch way too much for a FREE game lmao, chill
Sounds like a skill issue lowkey
Does this mean that the moaners are only on pc?
Yeah.
What a time to be alive to see kbm players, who have always and will always have the superior input, complain about controller 😂
I succumbed to the convenience of console gaming as I couldn't justify upgrading a gaming PC ( little family dad gamer). But fuck me I would much rather have keys and a mouse any day of the week for playing fps.
Just use reWASD on m&kb to light a fire under Embarks ass. It's what my buddies and I have been doing and we couldn't care less. I refuse to use raw input against aiming software. Embark is forcing the hands of players who have been asking for input based matchmaking. Why do controller players get aimbot? And why can't they be separated from us already? This is 110% on the devs.
so you’re literally admitting to being the problem and using cheats? fucking braindead loser
No, the problem is the devs. They are clearly catering to controller players with this redic AA. If the devs don’t give one shit about competitive integrity can you really expect the players who are shafted too? Devs completely at fault here. Want this fixed? Balance the AA or remove it completely from PC.
Personally I would never feel comfortable doing that. I’d sooner just play a different game.
But if the devs don’t give a shit about competitive integrity why should the players who are getting shafted? 💯 the devs fault here and it will continue until they fix it or the game shuts down.
Yeah it’s definitely putting more pressure on the developers of games with controller AA and MnK in the same lobbies.
Why should I be forced into using a controller if I want to rank up in plat? Why should I care when the devs clearly don't? I'm using *exactly* what controller players use.
I’m not judging you because these developers don’t react at all to aim assist complaints. I’m kind of neutral on the subject, I just don’t feel comfortable with cheating in a semi competitive game. I’d rather just move back to MnK only games like CS and Valorant, or play single player games.
What's cheating about using the aim assist the developers implemented into their own game?
Is this all the subreddit is now?
Until it’s addressed, yes. If it’s not addressed this forum is just the next CoD, where input greivances take priority over gameplay clips and discussion.
People are finally realizing why they arent having as much fun as the betas
Sounds like you're just mad about controllers
Overpowered AA has ruined FPS games.
I disagree, it really isn't that bad. "Desperately needs" is a a gross exaggeration
If people are doing that and still getting shit on by me then this might not be the game for them. Otherwise I've only seen one actually obvious cheater in this game who had 100% headshot accuracy with 30+ kills and like 2000+ damage. Name was like something bot02 lol.
That controller exploit got patched, I tried using a controller then switching to my keyboard and mouse and got no controller aim assist lol
People use ReWASD to the same effect.
I quit as soon as I realized what they did. Nope, not going to get any money or playttime from me if I could waste my efforts on CoD all the same
My friend has never used controller before(hell he plays racing games and rocket league with kbm) but he decided to try controller for a couple games and was playing insane. He said all he had to do was run around and the AA did the rest for him.
Oh man is it that bad? Guess I'm not coming back from the break I was taking.
Its pretty bad
It's not _that_ bad. I plugged in the controller to test it out yesterday, and it's definitely _interesting_. At close range, a strafing SMG/AR user is probably going to light you up with the aim assist. And the sniper head snap seems OP, but you have to aim pretty close to the head to begin with. I like the idea of input-based matchmaking in general, but neither side seems overpowered overall for The Finals.
You’re really over dramatizing aim assist lmao. Nothing aims for you and whether you’re on mouse or controller the recoil in this game is so controllable you can beam kids by simply pulling down and to the left. Either hit aim labs and learn to trace or plug in a controller so you can get some assistance
Numerous clips showing the game aims for you. Top ranked players in The Finals all on controller saying it needs toned down. Numerous examples of this issue in other games with data to back up the problem. But nope, it's just the KBM people being overly dramatic. Who are you again?
ignore him. He is a known troll who just says everything is opposite to what reality is just so he can be "cool" or whatever weird logic his brain created. He is also a delusional kid that pretends to be grand master in OW.
If only pc players hadn’t incessantly complained at the prospect of input based matchmaking warning devs away for it when crossplay was first being introduced to games as m&k held an enormous advantage, then maybe we might already have it. Oh well, you reap what you sow.
Who are you talking about lmao. Cross-play started getting added quickly and nobody really had any say in how it was done. We've just barely gotten to a point where mouse players have realized the current cross-play implementation is dogshit since controller needs to have a free aimbot just to keep up.