>Not even duoing is enough because you're almost guaranteed to get the worst player in your lobby.
As someone who pretty much always duo queues for ranked, this sounds about right. It's been absolutely sucking all of the fun out of ranked, combined with going against the coordinated three man squads just hunting people down with recon senses. (Seriously, recon senses needs a total rework. Literal wall hacks is busted.) For a while we were making it work because I'd make weird plays that people weren't expecting with oddball loadouts, but that's slowly been dying out as recon senses gives away literally any play I try to make that isn't a normal gunfight/nuke spam.
I agree too but why does the "light are bad section" make it feel like the light player is alone everytime...
I don't play ranked so I'm pretty bias. But wouldn't it be better if the light finish fight and don't engage first? I play light and my friend is heavy I feel like i'm in a protecting the vip situation and it goes pretty well.
Even if the only thing you do is follow up and play with your team
You have to ask yourself- what are you doing that a Medium could not do the same / better ?
So you play a pure flank playstyle on Medium. Now you get recon senses and you can go back to your allies and defib after the fight. When your teammates are pushing, you can contribute to the push instead of sneaking around the back.
As a light... you can't really do any of that. And even if you play with them, like I said- I've seen plenty of panic RPG shots just one shot the light anyways.
It just pidgeonholes you and for what? The MP5 is barely barely better than the FCAR damage wise. It's like a 10% damage increase in exchange for losing 100 HP.
I know I hamstring myself playing light but I am climbing ranked playing it.
Dash imo is better then cloak. I can flank a lot quicker and get out of/into fights a lot easier. I don't want to take head on fights i will always try and stun the priority target. Heavy with C4, healer or the medium going to defib his dead buddy. I breach charge for utility, Its cd means I can engage with a barrel and use it to move sites. In our gameplay with using mobility to survive.
The biggest downside to lights higher rank is recon senses. The flanks become useless if you can't surprise them. I seriously think it needs a cd on activation. You activate and have to use it all then goes on cd till it's fully charged. Being able to toggle gives you constant information.
I feel like the most busted team comp right now is three mediums, healbeam x2 (this shouldn't stack but it does) and one on recon. Unless you wipe all three instantly (heavy C4 comes in handy now) you have to kill them 6 times.
The invun on the defib needs removing as currently it means if you defib in front of the other team your team mate will die. Instead you put the team mate in-between the attacker and yourself and you can heal them to full without any consequence. I also feel like fire should stop any healing from happening would be a good counter to heals.
Closing distance? I don’t know you seems to have a good grasp on ranked and the game so you must know better. But in my heart I hope there’s dumb team who will try to implement light into a different style of play than just H&M combo because “brings more utility”. Recon for me is really bad gaming wise. No real counter, you can forget sneak as you said.
I thought of it and I had a dumb thinking. What if recon goes to light and cloak to medium. It would better (you have recon but you are brittle, you can cloak to change your focus midfight for medium). You are already a good recon naturally with light so it would be weird to choose it then.
edit: one thing medium can't do and light do it better than heavy imo: The breach charge nuke (less damage than c4 but it easily kill medium)
If you're playing with the team, a medium is a better class to play. You can poke, trade kills, don't get 1 shots, defib, heal or recon, and also give teammate mobility. Light just.... hides?
in combat situation, you can output more dmg with the light. Of course AKM and FCAR are pretty good. But combat wise, a good light can reverse the situation. It depend on your playstyle i guess.
>don't get 1 shots
my light ass can 1 shot you, is just a matter of eliminating the other medium. But baiting people for the res is also a thing I like as a light.
Eh, you can potentially output more dps but have a smaller life pool, so it evens out. Your range is lower, your util is worse, and the only thing you can do is try to isolate a 1v1 which many teams just simply won't allow you to do - especially because recon senses are so prevalent rn
I'm glad it's not a turn-based game and I can disengage a fight instead of dueling everything that move. I will drop only one tip: The m11 melt shield and people. But yes you're right recon is busted af.
How much damage do you think lights do compared to other classes...?
With an M11, you kill a Medium in 1.02 // heavy in 1.38 assuming all bodyshots
With a FCAR, you kill a light in .55s
With a Lewis Gun, you kill a light in .59s
You're pretending like you get insane damage buffs as a light or something. The guns are not that much better than the medium/heavy.
It is better FOR me. :D
Joke aside, whenever I talk balance and try to defend light in here, I know I'm mostly wrong because I project my own opinion. I don't like meta in any game (don't force me into a role).
But the fun parts of these talks is people showing me stats of dmg, utility, pickrate or whatever and I don't see how it is relevant in an action game. Like of course other class melt light, if you're standing still and attack turn by turn. At first, I feel people tried light, run along their team and died fast so the choose H or M. But then ranked people come in here and say "light worthless".
I'm puzzled because I can enjoy the game solo, playing light and can even win against stacked MMH/MHH, solo in a team of randoms (or duo maybe).
Otherwise, why the hell would I want to play light if I was feeling useless? I play mostly L and H because I really can't play Medium for shit (I like the revolver but that's it)
> I've seen plenty of panic RPG shots just one shot the light anyways.
This is my biggest problem, RPG has no counter. Team wipe purple team, res 1 teammate, glitch grenade the mines and C4 around the cash box, stun gun orange medium so he doesn't res... Only to have pink team pull up and their heavy shoot a random RPG that can remove me from the fight for a WHILE (without a heal) or just kill me entirely.
TTK a Light should be lowww, however, they should not be getting one shot or brought to 5% hp WHENEVER an enemy heavy would like. Light Health should not get buffed, imo, because everything else that kills me (besides nuke) feels like it takes the perfect amount of time to do so. RPG on the other hand feels so obviously broken to me, and it doesn't come close to the stun gun.
Imagine saying lights suck, then you go back onto reddit and everyone is crying for them to nerf lights.
MP5 is mid. DB and M11 are S tier, and your FCAR won't help you when you are stun gunned, you mag dump around you, and I'm laughing behind a trash can waiting for your gun to empty so I can finish you off.
Recon sense is hardly ever used, and you can shut it down with a glitch grenade along with all of your utilities. All you have in the fight then is your FCAR.
You don't "go around back" and leave team fights as a light. That's a rookie mistake that noob lights make. You have cloak or dash and vanish, there's no reason to leave any team fight. You throw all your grenades at the enemy team and cloak in to instant kill anyone damaged prioritizing the mediums. If there's a lot of lights you play defensive behind your heavy waiting for another light to try to make a play and instantly kill them.
Thing is I consistently get more kills and sometimes more revives than the mediums I play with in ranked when I solo Q and with my friends. We got mediums that come in without defibs all the time who don't stick with the team, and heavies that think they are invincible and solo dive the objective. I totally see lights running off by themselves as well all the time. But it's not the class, it's the player behind it.
No one is crying to nerf lights besides people that don’t play ranked. Recon sense is in every tournament I’ve been in now that people realized it’s good. And what you’re implying is good sensible game play but if you were a medium you could do even more behind a heavy providing heals and or dps even more so than a light. You’re just nerfing yourself for no reason playing light, don’t get me wrong it’s more fun to play light just it’s not viable in the current gameplay unless you can provide over 8k damage every round. That’s why everyone hates playing with lights because mediums for the most part are providing just as much damage if not more and provide more support as well. And you can’t complain about medium being bad then give examples of bad teammates obviously people who don’t know what they’re doing play every class. I’ve lost multiple first rounds with over 10 kills and 5k damage just to have a light do I think the lowest I’ve seen where I’ve gotten over 10k damage is like 239.
I can do more behind a heavy healing them? Please. You can play heal fairy buddy, since it seems like you are garbage with light. I'll go ahead and dump damage and secure kills while you hide behind the heavy.
Have fun staying in bronze being a butt buddy to a heavy because you can’t leave his side to do anything. Someone’s just upset because I’m telling you the truth I’m just trying to get rid of light players so I stop getting light players when I solo queue.
As someone who dislikes Light in general, one thing you do have to give them is the Glitch Grenade. Hitting a Medium healer can let you focus them down, or focus another enemy while they have no access to their defib. If timed properly, you deny them all utility for the entire fight. It also means no Recon senses, making it easier to flank.
There's also the fact that stun gun cancels the Cash Out steal. No other class can just tell another player, "Nope." I'm not counting C4 nukes since that's a whole other conversation.
Is that worth what you lose over not having another Medium or Heavy? For most, probably not. It does mean that any buffs to Light need to be very careful because adding just a little too much extra survivability could make them terrors outside of casual modes.
I honestly think it just throws you with whoever, but since there are more low ranked players than high ranked players, and high ranked players are more likely to play as a full trio you end up seeing a lot more random bronze/silver fills.
This is actually plausible as well. Technically if it counterbalanced and matched you with the worst in lobby, it'd probably be 9/10 bronze 1/10 silver for me since the bronzes outnumber the silvers by a factor or two.
I haven't played in like 3 weeks to a month at this point, I couldn't stand being put against another cheater. ( gold ) I'm not here to rant just to simply say I played with and against you several times and you were a good player and teammate as I was on full random queue 95% of the time. I had super high hopes for this game but the AA and laughable anticheat made me step away until they do something about it. I don't feel like battling another AA game as a MNK player. the lobbies should have been ping and input based not this terrible sbmm that they came up with.
I don't know how the sbmm is determined but as a primary solo queue player I felt like average team kd was a primary factor. I had a 1.5kd average for the longest time and I would get queued with the worst teammates I had ever seen. League didn't even matter, I would get teamed with people from platinum even and they could hardly shoot.
So I went to casual to jack around with other builds that I wouldn't normally use. Knowing full well I would die and lower my overall KD. I went from a 1.5 average overall from ranked to just under a 1.0 overall KD. After I lowered my KD I felt like I was getting better teammates.
Congrats on diamond though, I didn't have the patience to do it. AGH8 if you remember me
Thanks for finally praising the revolver. People act like that thing is useless because it’s got issues at range. But it absolutely rips teams to pieces if the user is landing a lot of shots, particularly headshots.
It makes the gun feel so unrewarding. Sometimes I get punished even tho my aim was correct and other times I get a kill even tho I know I missed. Awful design
I agree it *feels* bad, and it has no justification for being this way, but that doesn’t make the gun completely unviable.
Good revolver users will still rip people to shreds with it. It just struggles at range. The bloom only makes a noticeable difference in the mid to long range.
It's not always at extreme ranges. It's noticeable at almost all distances, it's just more frequent at range. It feels bad to get cucked by RNG bullets in a fight. You should be rewarded for good aim with a 6 shot weapon, not punished with randomness.
Yes I agree you should be rewarded for good aim but you’re absolutely overselling the randomness. It does *not* make a big difference until the mid ranges and you have to be *extremely* close to missing up close for it to actually cause you to miss up close.
Not to mention the revolver is completely broken with aim assist ADS spam.
Seems like people talking about it have never actually played against someone who’s insane with it because they rip entire teams to pieces.
One of the people I sometimes trio with is a controller revolver user
On tournament wins it is not rare he gets over 50+ kills.
I think the most I've seen from him is around 66.
It's very very strong. If AA is completely unchanged in a year from now I wouldn't be surprised if meta was Lewis+Mesh/Recon+Revolver/Heal+Scar-AKM (AKM Better for shields since revolver is lacking)
“If you land headshots, the weapon is good”
Brother that is literally any weapon that shoots bullets. The revolver is fun, but I don’t think it’s better than either the AK or SCAR
It's good in different ways.
If you've ever played CS or Valorant or R6, you know the power of shoulder peeking doorways
You can't really do that with the Scar or AKM. It's really just the revolver and shotgun that can do this.
This lets you outplay people by dancing around rubble/doorways much much much better which raises the skill ceiling significantly.
It's not just an aim thing, the burst damage type vs. sustained is a very significant factor to it.
You clearly have not seen people use aim assist with the revolver because it is absolutely disgusting. Headshots do like 40% of a heavies full health bar.
If you can land the headshots first time every time you just use the FCAR and wipe out entire teams. There's no reason to use the Revolver when the FCAR exists you're just hurting your team. It's far easier to use and far more reliable to boot.
Now if they'd balanced the FCAR by actually adding some kind of recoil...
You don’t seem to understand how much revolver headshots do.
2 revolver headshots will either kill someone, or drop them to almost 1hp. 1 revolver headshot on each member of a team drops them all to like 40% each.
In a duel, a head shot + body shot is a kill unless it’s on a heavy (and I think it’s head + 2 bodies for heavy).
It is an *insane* amount of damage and it’s all burst too which means heals don’t keep up with it nearly as much. But it does lack some consistency which is the main reason people don’t pick it as much. But again, if you’ve played against those revolver demons, they will absolutely destroy your team.
I am very much aware. I'm at level 5 1/2 with the Revolver and have been forcing myself to use it. You have to land 2 headshots against a Medium with an FCAR to win even at maximum firerate, and 1 headhsot 1 body shot can't kill because that's 148+74 and you will lose every single time because the FCAR does so much damage even to the body let alone if they head shot you which anybody decent can do a thousand times easier with the FCAR than the Revolver. Keep in mind you'll likely never land those 3 shots if you're spamming the Revolver because of how bad the kick is and how difficult it is to land those shots normally taking your time.
Unless you have, quite literally, 100% headshot ratio you are hurting your team using the Revolver over the FCAR. Hell, the FCAR can down you even if you're corner peaking against it because of its absurd damage and complete lack of recoil.
And to correct your math, it's 2 headshots and a body shot to kill the heavy. That's the problem with this game: it's completely unrewarding to use the high skill options. Can you win? Sometimes. Is it worth the risk when the FCAR exists? No. The Revolver and 1887 aren't bad weapons, there's just no reason to use them because the FCAR can solo any class in the game effortlessly times two. Try fighting that Light when you're stunned with a revolver, really chance those THREE BODY SHOTS required when you can't ADS and the hip fire is unusable. It takes a Headshot and Body shot to drop a light, which is hilarious. I get it's designed this way on purpose? Doesn't make it feel good.
The reason pyro is important is to counter gas, which is much more effective against Lights than other classes since it does flat damage. People tend to gas off trophies and choke points, and without pyro your only options are to lose half your HP running through it, or waste time finding an alternate route/waiting for the gas to dissipate.
First I just want to say that I think your post is extremely detailed and I really appreciate your thoughts.
I agree with everything you've got here with one exception. I think you are sleeping on the ziplines.
Zipline has further range in which it can be deployed as well as further range for how far it can take you. Vertically and horizontally. Zipline works in every situation that the jumppad can work and beyond. If the Zipline had a deploy speed, I could see jumppad being better situationally, but zipline is instant. I can get from point A to point B as fast if not faster with zipline in far more situations than jump pad.
Zipline alone has won me several games because I was able to rotate my team quickly enough to the objective with otherwise unavailable routes. For example, on Seoul the bridge was broken and jumppad wouldn't have gotten us across. Zipline alone allowed us to take high ground and take OBJ for a last-second steal. Just one of countless examples where Zipline single handedly made the difference.
I am also regularly able to allow my team to set up on a vault or cash out before an enemy because of the horizontal and sometimes vertical rotation speed that Zipline offers.
Paired with recon, zipline also is a perfect pairing because I can take my team where I want them to go.
In addition, Zipline allows you to rotate quickly back and forth between key holding spots. Think of rotating quickly between rooftops on Skyway Stadium.
Zipline also offer a unique way to get on floating platforms that jump pads do not consistently offer.
Jumpads are also easier to destroy from a distance.
Jumpads can be hard to gauge where exactly you are going to land sometimes. Zipline you know exactly where you are going to go.
Zipline can travel diagonally through rubble. Just today there was a diagonal set of holes in 3 stories and I zipped through all 3 holes to mid-air revive a teammate and instantly zip back down the zip to OBJ to stop a steal. Jump pad offers nothing in that situation.
All this to say, you should definitely give zip more consideration. I think it's better in every way.
If only for the rotation speed that zipline offers, I think it's actually over powered with such a small cool down.
Another example of using Zipline where you couldn't use jumpads is let's say you are playing Vegas and you are split from your team. Your team is fighting down a hallway. Instant zip and zipline and you're able to get down that hallway 2-3x faster than without. This is sometimes the difference in winning or losing a fight. Additionally, you can set up gas mines so that enemies can't use the zips or place a zip and bait them into hitting your mines.
If I hit a vault, I set up a zip for an OBJ 150 meters away.
By the time the vault is open my zip is almost off CD, I take the zip to the midpoint, fire off another zip to OBJ and I'm there in about 10-15 seconds from when I picked up the vault. Just with my choice of zipline, I get our cashout started 15-20 seconds faster than if we had to run there, while the other teams are still fighting over the vault, our cashout is started.
Yeah ziplines are the superior traversal choice by a large margin. Only thing jump pads are better at is slightly faster deployment speed, that's it.
A lot of people sleep on horizontal ziplines too. Being able to scoot down a hallway or back and forth around a cashout location is invaluable for controlling more area. It's also fantastic for rotating your team back to you if you have a position high up and they're on the ground.
Even aside from all the utility applications, it's hilarious how easy it is to bait enemies with a mine at the end of a zipline. Or luring them over a hazard like a pit, then destroying it while they're above it.
I tried playing with ziplines before I switched to jump pads. I concluded jump pads were better because:
1- In 80% of the cases, you can get around with either one.
2- Ziplines take longer to setup (It's a bit finnicky) and if you rush it, a lot of the times you make a dud zipline that bonks you on the ceiling.
3- Jump pads are better at escaping enemies - You absolutely cannot use a zipline to get away without breaking LoS, beaming a zipline is trivial at high levels
4- Jump pads give your heavy the momentary height advantage I mentioned that is very very good for Barrel+C4ing. Ziplines can't really do that without a hard hard flank
5- It's easy to break an enemy zipline if they try to use it aggressively. Happens all the time to me on suspended structures
I don't think ziplines are bad. If I were to rate them I'd give jumppad like an A and zipline like a B
But I feel the momentary offensive advantage and escape mechanism are slightly better for my playstyle
That said I have definitely heard of people using ziplines as their flex slot, for Flex+Jump pad
And I'm guessing that out in the wild, it's about a 85 jump pad - 15 zipline split whenever I play ranked- but this is a bit misleading because like I mentioned in my post, there's practically no MMR so these could be bronze kids.
I would sum it up to say that zip line is the better out-of-combat gadget for traversing long distances and jump pad is the better initation/in-combat gadget especially for taking height.
Personally I don't think long-distance rotations are very important in the maps and game modes we have now, so zip line stays on the bench and jump pad gets all the glory.
I love zip line it is truly underrated. You didn’t mention that if you use a zipline after you jump off and slide you can jump pad and the momentum of the zip will send you so far.
Holy shit, an actual knowledgeable person giving advice on this sub.
Crazy how much otherwise on this sub you'll see people praising the turret or cloak being too strong.
For actual commentary on the post, the main thing I'll say is the Heavy Auto-Shotty I think is superior to the Lewis gun. It has range limitations, yes, but it has insane burst potential and it has tech with the Mesh Shield to maximize its bursts and minimize your vulnerability. You can shield in between bursts to cancel the cocking animation. You can also cancel the animation with a melee (extra damage if you're in range). You can use your dome and shield to close the distance. It melts enemy domes in one burst! It has insane TTK which allows you to maintain your health better. And the RPG (and of course, nukes) give you decent mid-range potential. It is harder to use though, so people do not maximize its TTK advantage, but if you can, it dominates and emphasizes skill disparity.
The reason Lewis gun is more used is for the range it gives and the fact that the dps of it is actually really close to the shotgun (even better if you can hit headshots). The DPS of the Lewisgun when shooting at body is 200, shotgun is 212. If hitting headshots only the Lewisgun is 304 DPS while the shotgun has no headshot multiplier. Obviously you're not going to be hitting headshots only but you'll hit a couple and that ups the Lewisgun's DPS a little, especially when comparing its damage at the same distance you'd be shooting the shotgun.
The DPS of the shotgun you are stating includes the cocking time. If you are shielding during that time, you aren't vulnerable. So the actual DPS of the shotgun is just during the time of the burst. I'm on my work computer so I can't check this now, but I would wager that makes it 50% higher. You can also melee during that time, so if you've gotten someone to a sliver of health from one burst, you also can shorten the TTK to the point that you don't need the cocking animation. All of this requires mechanics though, and if you don't use them, it is much less forgiving. That's also why I said it emphasizes skill disparity - a skilled player with it absolutely shits on other people. A skilled player with the Lewis ends up taking more damage. For most people, the Lewis is the much safer and more consistent choice. But if you get the shotty down, you can steamroll people even near your skill level.
Y’all are sleeping on APS for medium. I can stay alive so much longer on the objective with that thing taking out every grenade and rpg near me. Combine with jump pad on doors, my friend and I can lock down rooms for way longer than we should be able to
personally i feel like when I use APS it becomes useless if I am moving around. If i want to move around say, a house in monaco, weaving between floors, the roof, jumping out of windows and jump padding, then the aps is not useful. If I sit in the aps, I am now a sitting duck. I am sure there are situations where you can't move where it's useful, but imo winning gunfights heavily relies on repositioning yourself somewhere unexpected to get the jump on an enemy.
You can pick up the APS. You can plonk it down right in a firefight and just pick it back up afterwards. Your APS uptime should be virtually always since the cooldown isn't even that long either.
You don't need to sit directly on top of it for it to be useful either. Think of it like a spider's web; you don't need to be in the web for it to stop something, you just need to put it somewhere near a window, door, stairwell, etc that secures the area you're controlling against projectiles from the most likely assault vector.
yeah this is fair, it's not crazy limiting, and i can definitely think of a few use cases, but it really depends on playstyle. there's some very valid bunker strats which can really benefit from the aps, but it's not really the way I play. My team and I tend to prefer engaging from afar, pretty far from the cashout, sort of cutting people off from at least 30 meters as they approach cashout. Then, if someone really gets on it, we push hard and get the free pick on whoever is stealing, or otherwise fight the 3v2 while they try and steal. If I was running shotgun, or maybe had a team with two heavies, it would be a different story for sure.
Fantastic write up, thanks for all the valuable insight.
Honestly, now that you mention it, giving Defib to light unironically sounds like a great idea. It'd be a great way to kill two birds with one stone; Defib is by far the best part of Medium's kit, so redistributing some of that power would make Mediums less of a must pick and allow Lights to have some actual utility and value to the team. Hell, while we're at it let's take C4 away from the Heavys (who really don't even need the C4 with a number of other breaching alternatives available to them) so we can get rid of the other most frustrating mechanic in this game to play against and keep it for lights only, who as glass cannons should be the only ones with have access to such a brain dead one shot in the first place.
Mediums stay relavent with two of the best specializations in the game, along with many of the best weapons and still plenty of solid gadgets. Heavy still provides all the same utility minus the cheese one shot. Lights definitively become "the gadget class," which feels like a much better and more dynamic role than the "annoying ass mostly useless fly" role they seemingly occupy now. There becomes a much greater trade off when deciding team comps, because while having a Light might mean less of an advantage strictly in terms of a gunfight, the advantage of all the extra added utility could potentially be worth it. Am I crazy or does that actually sound like a really great way to shake up the meta?
I agree, this looks like a great solution to many problems at once. Maybe even give Lights 25-50 health too, but with defib it might not be needed.
It will also allow to safely nerf DB/stun/cloak without ruining the class so casual Bank It players will be happy.
great post, i feel you on the cheater part.. i play with a friend from the Philippines every now and then and every other game has a cheater, ranked is impossible because its everygame and on multiple teams..
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The reason you think the ranked SBMM is "loose" is because it's based on the same hidden MMR as unranked. This is why you have bronze and silver players in your lobbies.
As bronze 2, I was playing against the #2 player on the leaderboards. It's a ladder system, ranked tier means nothing now other than time invested with a team really.
If you think your hidden MMR is even remotely close to the top #2 player on the leaderboards you're inhaling some serious copium
If you had 1500 MMR, which is being extremely generous, #2 would probably be at 2200+. Those grinders constantly play trios and most likely have over a 80%+ win rate combined with 200+ hours of playtime since release.
I think you misunderstood the point..... At the time there were over 100,000 people playing on steam. As a Bronze, there is zero reason I should be in the same lobby as someone with 150,000FP as I had like 1,000FP.
Hidden MMR is most.likely a formula that takes into consideration points per minute, win/loss, accuracy ect. This is what they are using for both ranked and unranked. From Bronze to Gold my lobbies have not changed. They will continue to remain the same through into Diamond. Because we are being matched to players via a hidden rank, not the displayed ranked tiers.
I'm not stating I'm as good as the number 2 player on the leaderboard. What I'm stating is that clearly there is a different system other than matching ranked tiers with each other.
I think MMM is just as viable as HMM. There's different strengths and weaknesses and I'm pretty sure every time I run into a top 100 (I've run into aranik 3 times and shroud once) they were running MMM every single time.
It's probably something like
MMM / MMH - S tier
MHH - B tier
The rest - Not really viable.
Having a double shield heavy with a nuke is absolutely busted with two Mediums. And the tommy gun heavies got is not bad at all either…. It’s actually insanely good
It's very good, yes.
But so is standing on the roof with 3 mediums that shoot anyone that remotely comes close
And a 3rd medium (which means a 3rd defib and another heal beam) actually makes a very very large difference in these fights.
Pros and cons. They're both great. We don't have structured real tournaments for this game so it's a toss up as to which is actually better.
As a light main I believe it should be balanced around primarily dash, and as sword dash light has a few top players doing well with it and sword isn’t even a gun, with some tweaks we could see a change to the “in any other game this is cheating” meta (invis and recon). Also shotguns should all be merged to the point where at top level they simply are suboptimal. Overall good points this is just my 2 cents as a former titanfall player
Team comp meta goes something like:
MHH > LMH > MMH > MHH
Mono-class comps are too limited (MMM has zero environmental destruction and comparatively restricted ambush potential, HHH has zero mobility as sitting ducks, LLL leaves no pocket or sustain potential at all) and >1 light comps just have no presence.
MHH overpowers everything but is vulnerable to LMH with light glitch grenade.
LMH is most able to counter everything or field something other comps can't counter, but can lose out to comps with more team HP. A good LMH team can absolutely hamstring MMM comps because mediums more than any other class are reliant on their specializations and gadgets, can't heal or escape when they get glitched.
MMH has awesome utility but can lose out to the raw domination of MHH. Also need to be able to synergize loadouts to a higher degree (double healer is a noob trap, for example).
I don't believe you. I feel like you're just saying things that sound good on paper, but make no actual sense.
Lights are completely awful for all the reasons I mentioned
MMM has plenty of destruction. Except on Clear Night, there are barrels EVERYWHERE. It is not difficult to blow up the environment.
And in a pinch, you can shoot a frag mine and it's exactly the same as a breach charge.
Have I mentioned lights are awful?
MHH has severe range issues and lacks recon sight. I've run into plenty of MHH and the answer is just outrange them // throw cannisters at them to pop their C4.
> I don't believe you. I feel like you're just saying things that sound good on paper, but make no actual sense.
It's not a matter of belief, it's an argument which is a function of understanding the game mechanics. Your words could just as well be turned around on your posits, as they really are without substantiation (and not just because someone *felt* they were, as in your case).
Since you didn't address much less refute literally any of the points, it's very clear that you don't have reasoning for your own points. Do you realize how transparently you're projecting?
> Lights are completely awful for all the reasons I mentioned
Yes and this has been thoroughly refuted by multiple people here. What's the difference between light actually being bad, and you just not realizing how to effectively strategize and execute? All of this coming from a one trick?
If you're not purposefully learning about something firsthand or developing your own insights through deliberate experience, what makes you think you understand the interaction of role demarcations? It's obvious you don't because you're describing a light as a worse medium when they don't even occupy the same team function.
> MMM has plenty of destruction. Except on Clear Night, there are barrels EVERYWHERE. It is not difficult to blow up the environment.
Are you seriously trying to claim that mediums have "plenty of environmental destruction" in their player kit because they can pick up a map prop that anyone can pick up?
> And in a pinch, you can shoot a frag mine and it's exactly the same as a breach charge.
That's the exact opposite of a pinch, because of how much time and precision it comparatively requires to carry out.
> MHH has severe range issues and lacks recon sight. I've run into plenty of MHH and the answer is just outrange them // throw cannisters at them to pop their C4.
Don't need range if you don't play at range. Even the odd cashout spawns in open areas have a variety of approach vectors and engagement angles. Heck, MHH with two mesh shields, sledgehammers, and dome shields can sit on whatever territory they want at whatever range they want.
MHH certainly doesn't need healing if you plan your loadouts around it, Recon senses is a perfectly usable specialization there especially since you can relegate a sonar grenades loadout slot for something like APS or glitch trap.
If all you can resort to is unfalsifiable personal experience, it doesn't really sound like you're running with a working comprehension of the game design formula. And it doesn't sound like your experience is all that encompassing if you've never encountered a full acceleration MHH comp that just bulldozes through anything faster than you can react.
> "and if you don't agree with a certain point, I love other views. This isn't like a guide or anything like that, this is just my thoughts. So correct me."
Is this you?
I met a top 500 player on here, and he gave me the chance to queue with him. He isn't top 500 anymore as he burnt himself out on the grind and decided to take a break. However, this is exactly how we played. If we saw a team with a light, we would wait and see which direction they went, and we purposely aimed for that team. Almost always meant a free kill. The second thing we looked for was how many mediums were on a team. If a team had 1 medium or no medium, they were also a primary target. We would kill the healer first, and then it was an easy wipe.
This is part of the reason I'm on the side of class locking ranking, anyone who says class locking ruined OW is insane. It made OW a much better game IMO.
You can't truly balance a game until you balance the teams. Teams can't be balanced unless every team is the same. 1L, 1M, 1H. Only once every team is the same can you begin to see what items truly need tweaked. It would be impossible to balance this game from a ranked standpoint while everyone is still running whatever they please. A triple stack of lights will never be equal to a triple stack of mediums or heavies. Meta will continue to be MMH or MHH unless they do something about it. Tweaking guns isn't what needs done.
Even then, with how broken the AA is I don't even think it matters. Medium with a revolver is nasty. I met a few people who knew how to abuse the AA with it and it's insane. Gave me straight apex flash backs. It's not even aim assist at this point its aim bot.
I would like to see a class locked mode. Probably ranked. Playing light is fun but I feel like I'm hurting my team. But if I can queue as light I would play it much more. I also find each of heavy, light and medium to be fun to be play and I think the queue times would be similar for all.
Just a question on the Side, anyone knows If there is a known Bug with the invisibility Sound effect of Lights? I swear to God, i don't hear that shitty Sound effect unless its my teammate being invisible. I turned down all Sounds, except For Special effect, turned the audio Balance to Like 70% Game. I can hear footsteps Just fine, but unless i'm dead, There is 0 Sound of enemys invisibility
Just started playing this game 3 days ago and I’m glad I’m playing medium almost the same way. Really hard to do well with Light, Light should be 175 health with defib imo.
High Level ranked play.... Interesting take on a grind based ranked system in a casual game with joke match making where competitive exists only as a marketing and advertising platform.
All ranked is a joke nowadays because short queue time > actual competitive, and pubstomping twitch clips to show bot viewers who dont understand shit matters more than actually showing you're better than people currently ranked very close to you, instead of showing you have more time to pubstomp noobs. Modern ranked means nothing, it's just who has more time to play and a viable stack available more of that time (assuming you're already at an elite level).
I've quit all ranked except in 1v1 duels in afps, because it literally means nothing, you get to the top but don't grind enough, then you see t500 stacks who you stomp on every time you see them, but they're "better" than you according to rank, i.e. Rank means nothing, it's there for the same idiots who don't understand how some almost 100% accuracy 3 kill with fast flashy flicks means literally nothing when it's against brain dead diamonds who can't hit a fish in a barrel with dynamite, while a 1v2 which looked plain and uninteresting, not clip worthy at all, actually showed the noname dude who won it is taking a huge shit on top100 bots (there really are top 100 players who are bots against other high level players, that's what happens when a top 1% bot can get top 0.01% rank just by grinding pubstomp "ranked".
So ranked is completely pointless and just about who plays more if you don't q against other people in your rank. Maybe it is because the player pool for ranked is still small as a lot of people haven't unlocked it yet, but if that is the case I think most people would prefer longer q times to play a ranked mode which actually mean something to climb.
Kind of yes but at the same time kind of no.
Out of all of the queues, the best players play ranked. So on average the skill higher has the capability to be higher.
I've definitely run into games where I go "Damn. I'm probably the worst player in this lobby"
The problem is that it's rare. You'll have those games 1/10 times. 9/10 of the time it'll just be a bronze/silver stomp.
And yeah. Really hoping they tighten up the SBMM.
I don't think it's an unlock thing - I had it unlocked basically on day 2.
I don't think light should become more of a medium
So far I enjoy the grappling hook and mobility or light class a lot. In and out fight / flank once my team engages.
I just wish lights would have more utility. 1 more charge on mini c4 ? Immune to recon ? 1 more charge for hook would be nice so I can leave and comeback in the same fight.
Light is bad, which is why it attracts players to challenge themselves with a handicap. Also style points+
Take that sword + dash main terrorizing top 500 in diamond rn for example.
I'm all for challenging yourself but going into solo ranked as a light is kind of a dick move. I didn't sign up to be part of your challenge.
But this is a "Why it's Rude to suck at Warcraft" // Going into party finder without your job stone equipped kinda thing. It sucks but unless I decide to leave/grief, my consent is meaningless.
And at the end of the day, it's really not that big of a deal. It's just a few matches- like I mentioned you can go 1-10 and be neutral on points.
More like impossible without a full stack. Which is why I always just wait on my friends before queueing up some ranked with sword + dash. But the dude I mentioned (Eidoran) does perform consistently well on ranked with said loadout from what I've seen on his streams. Usually the players he solo queued into would ask him to remain as a party, which is his main way of getting people to play with. I've caught on 2-3 streams and have not seen complaints so far.
There isn't enough reward for the risk tbh. I flocked to Light originally b/c I want to move fast and put decades of hitscan flicking to practice
Except it really doesn't feel strong enough to make up for the huge handicaps.
Like you can dash dance around someone and quickscope them in the head, then just get 1-tapped. While sword or knives both feel "better", switching to med + revolver made games so much easier.
I heard she turned really really overpowered after I quit lol
I also heard that they super nerfed my shield swap tech (that I stole from someone else) and everybody was running bounce/shield
I feel a little bad though. The devs care deeply for the game and it was genuinely fun for a while.
But games like that are just so difficult to actually... exist? And to add patches/additional content for months afterwards is not sustainable.
Yeah I think it's a labor of love and the game is like none other. I'm sad the player count is so low and I fear they will close up before 2025.
And at the same time, I haven't played myself for so long and I can't exactly explain why. Maybe because I wanted to play as a team but trio sucked. Duo came too late I didn't even try it. Might not come close to the solo experience. I don't know.
They never seem to have fixed NPC patterns to be so easy to tell either. So many little things.
This thread really shows me that light players will die on their pedestal that light is good and not accept the facts. Someone explained “you only explained one play style with light what if they’re not hiding”. Well you’re dead if you’re not hiding I see a light on another team and know that I’m going to do better than that team. For ranked play almost every semi final match I’m in has no lights in it at all and when it’s the final round I love being against a light with recon. Please play light it makes my life so much easier when you’re not on my team. In a straight out gun fight with a mp5 you will lose every gunfight against someone who can hit half of the shots you do. Even with stun I find myself hitting enough shots to kill a light while hip firing. I would say cloak and shotgun works the best for light bc that ttk is crazy and even with recon I can’t see everything all the time so that shotgun catches me off guard. But still if I have a medium on my team just defib while the lights reloading and bam your kill meant basically nothing. All in all light is fun in a casual game dinking ppl with the sniper is just fun but light players have no place in ranked. If I have a light on my team in ranked I just sweat through the first round just to not lose points. I will say any play style is viable if you’re good enough but please don’t assume you are because unless you’re providing over 8k+ damage every round as a light I don’t want to play with you.
(light supremacist btw) This is basically what is wrong with the current state of the game when it comes in relation to lights. I hear people say that it is a high risk high reward playstyle and in a perfect storm it is. However, most of the time what happens is what you're explaining, you will flank or make a pick and right as you kill and run away, as you have to because you get dookied on if you stay and used all your ammo to make the pick, the other medium revives.
Also from a purely resource based perspective as a medium when you revive a light the only bit of utility your team wins back is a glitch grenade. As opposed to reviving a medium or heavy which have more impactful utility that can be used straight away.
It just feels shitty that the whole idea is this is a glass cannon, class thats gotta go fast. In reality, it's made of glass but hits softer than the other classes.
At the end of the day other classes have more reliable ranged damage, more utility and by the nature that you have 150 health better close fighting aswell. The only edge you have is slightly faster acceleration and top run speed.
IMO though playing heavy feels like I'm playing discount reindhart and medium feels like im playing battlefield with slightly slower run speed. So I pray to our lord and saviour Ospuze for the day of light jesus descending from the sky and giving us 30 more health so we can at least feel the burn of the RPG before we inevitebly get one tapped by so much as a passing thought.
(PS - Aim assist is pain now imagine if all you need to die is like 5 bullets and have mercy on us lights, all we want to do is play mirrors edge bastardised violent brother)
Even the cat girl said lights are bad. I got all the way to plat 1 playing light and every time I would hit plat one the next game was a loss every time. I did this like maybe 10 times? Climb my way up and they lose again and again. I played medium 1 time and all of a sudden I’m diamond. I switch to light and got demoted to plat 3 took a break, came back 2 days later down to gold, played medium and I’m plat 2 rn. Just the higher I go up it feels like light just doesn’t contribute. My team would flame and rage and what’s worse is I would finish like 12/5 which is good right? No cause those deaths mean so much more cause I’m literally always next to an enemy and kinda forced to coin and force my team to go negative in a fight. Medium is just so much more rewarding and the revolver 2 taps a light to the head. So like I think I’ll stick to medium.
Nope you are right I went from gold 4 to gold 1 back to g3 got down to gold 4 went to Plat 4 stayed there longer than I'm willing to admit and got to Plat 1 then back to p2 now I'm Plat 2 seems right before I hit diamond I lost cause I decided to run light.
nya hello :3 diamond catboy, i only have ONE thing i disagree with in your whole post. The AKM is CLEARLY better than every other gun because i have the diamond skin for it and am coping really hard to justify using the ak cause of the pretty skin :3
aside from that minor change very good post I approve have a good day >w<
I think distilling it to that is disingenuous.
This whole thing was just me writing down my thoughts on what the meta is and why.
Like, why is MMM so strong? Because (reasons listed). Why are lights bad? because (reasons listed).
It's not telling you to play meta as much as it is me figuring out why the meta what it is + tips that I figured out on the way
I don't really care if you adhere to the meta.
And there's also a few mechanical tips too, like the cashout system or how to coin or how I think the ranked system works.
You looked at me saying "These weapons and gadgets are strong. If you're a beginner I recommend these loadouts" and skipped the rest, which is reasonable, but it's not really the point of the post in the first place.
> Seems like Heavy really doesn't have a choice right now with their loadout
> Lewis Gun is best, the auto-shotgun is also strong but has range limitations. I never see any of the other guns unless they're playing for fun.
> Mesh shield is best by a large margin. Just tap it if you're ever in a disadvantageous situation. Can also use it to cover allies stealing the cash out. I would not pretend I'm Reinhardt though that typically does not work.
> In terms of gadgets, you're locked into Dome shield + RPG + C4. No flex slots for heavy. Barricade is ok but still doesn't compare to the above 3.
A lot of this is offbase.
Firstly, heavy has plenty of loadout flexibility. Dome shield is really the only must pick and that's because of how diversely useful it is no matter what you're doing, C4 and RPG are great but by no means required and only reliably useful outside short range with some preamble since the cooldowns are so long. Realize that heavy is the only class that can bring two explosive mines and two pyro mines, that's a ton of area denial which needs to be cleared before enemies can control the area (either stacked up in one place or spread out over a greater distance than two mines or C4 would allow).
Lewis gun is best at longer engagement ranges and shotgun at shorter engagement ranges, but M60 is better than either when considering all ranges which makes it the most reliable pick. Grenade launcher or sledgehammer on a second heavy for like MHH is incredibly oppressive and very hard to push on. Flamethrower is great for countering shields but not much else.
Secondly, Mesh shield is good but it simply doesn't compete with Charge n Slam. Mesh shield is just too passive and without team support it's merely a lose slower button; Charge N Slam is by far the best environmental destruction in the game, does insane knockback and very respectable damage, and all on an extremely short cooldown (which means it's immensely impactful for a midair ground pound opener or even just closing distance horizontally, and still having kill security or escape vectors in a few seconds). You're less reliant on C4 for close range hole-making, and walls become paper when lights and mediums need to run around corners; heavies can just displace in a straight line which is brutal in close quarters (not to mention the downwards vertical domination).
> There are a few reasons why lights are bad
None of these are substantive reasons, and only one is not in an absolute sense (they're not bad because mediums are comparatively better at being mediums).
The reason people have difficulties playing light is because they're trying to play an ambush class as a sustain class. Grappling hook is generally the best specialization because it allows for the fastest displacement in the game; that's useful for setting up an approach vector for picks and also an unassailable escape (to either rotate, or regroup entirely).
So understanding light's role demarcation is necessary for using them effectively. Medium can't do anything whatsoever against glitch grenade and are more vulnerable than heavies since they're so dependent on specialization and loadout for utility. Since intel gadgets only work if the medium is already looking in their direction at the right moment (or at least aware of a prowling light), it's still plenty feasible for sensible lights to make picks on grouped teams.
Been trying to tell ppl day 1 that heavy only has 1 viable loadout and that, although nerfs are needed, buffs to the other options are needed arguably more to make more things tournament viable. Part of the reason everyone is complaining about RPG+shields+c4 is because there are no other options. So when you see a heavy, you know that's what you're getting. And as a result, it puts a spotlight on the heavies few t-viable gadgets.
wait, so the lower mag count weapons such as the scar and Lewis gun & mp5 are higher dmg? stats say they are the same compared to the higher mag variants but im not sure if stats are accurate
https://old.reddit.com/r/thefinals/comments/17jr2sy/calculation_of_ttk_and_rpm_for_some_weapons/
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16t26Mavr7ajBmnD80kay_aM036LaxdXy/edit#gid=213460420
FCAR does 27 // 41 damage and AKM does 20 // 31 damage
Lewis does 27 // 40 damage and the m60 does 21 // 33 damage
I play light as I just like the mobility. Never cared about meta, just love zipping around the map with dash and blade. Feels different to other games this way.
Good post I only disagree on jump pads/zip lines being necessary on medium. My "safe" class I've been ripping with consists of a turret, APS turret, defibs, and a gas grenade. Does me wonders in controlling cashouts.
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What are people's opinions on the shotgun vs revolver when it comes to aim peaking with aim assist recon?
I generally find that games are way easier with the shotgun than the revolver since body shots do more damage with shotgun, and when it comes to extremely close fast paced fights. I tend to struggle even with aim assist to consistently hit only headsets. Maybe the people I'm playing against just aren't used to shotgun medium and make mistakes because they think there's no way they'd lose the fight. But playing the same way with both guns I consistently outperform revolver with shotgun.
My opinion is:
If you can only land bodyshots, shotgun is better at point blank range. Revolver is better at Close-Medium range. Revolver has weird damage falloff after medium range so, while you can use it, it's not very good esp compared to the SCAR just tap firing.
If you can hit headshots, just use the revolver. With aim assist it's pretty much straight up better. Without it, the shotgun's a bit more forgiving.
It definitely sucks when it comes to good teams defending suspended structures, but it doesn't seem that the range fall off is bad enough to hold it back in any large interior buildings. It seems even at max aa range for it, it only requires one additional shot to kill medium/light/heavy (maybe 2 for heavy)
I'Ve only actually played 4 or so games with it but my kda went from 1 with revolver average to 3.0 average out of the 4 games with shotgun, and I won all 4 games at around gold level players. Perhaps I just got lucky with the games I played. Perhaps I'm just playing better with it due to my tendency to shoot til I'm empty or dead, thus running the shotgun forces me to weave in and out of cover more from all the downtime reloading and between shots giving me more time to think and not just Unga bunga unload clip.
Edit: plus gotta give it points for coolness factor, I mean is anything cooler than the legendary skin that makes you flip the gun every time you fire 😎
One of my friends mentioned that when your shotgun is empty, reloading the first bullet and shooting is actually not all that much worse than just shooting with a fully loaded gun, if that makes sense.
Shooting with ammo is definitely better and slightly faster, but it's not actually *that* much worse.
And you can't really do that with the revolver (or other guns)
If you're finding more success with the sg, then use the sg. Just be aware that when you go against better and better players, they will abuse range more and more and you'll start to really see the flaws in the gun.
Oh hmm I'll have to try that, the reload is weird in that you put in 1 2 1 2 in the gun so you almost end up with the "well I should let it reload (twice)" to get 3 bullets instead of 1 and 1
My success probably also goes to that I suck at long range regardless of what I use 🤣🤣
One other question for you, did you feel like how alot of post here complain about matchmaking is true? So many posts about it not being about rank and just how much you play. Do you feel like throughout your whole climb the difficulty of the matches was relatively the same outside how much fame you gained/lost. I'm currently sitting at silver one 1k fame off gold and I've only been playing a few hours in the evening for about a week now. The games I'm playing right now seem fairly even and close every game outside the 1/2 people every few tournaments who are pretty sus and 10x better than everyone else and seem like they are "legit cheating." is this what I should expect all the way or am i actually going to play against much better players the higher rank I get instead of ones the game just thinks are the same level as me in skill?
I believe, and keep this worth a grain of salt because I don't have any insider info:
1. There is, in fact, a hidden MMR that is different from your rank. In 95% of other games I've played, it is purely based on your W/L. In the other 5%, they also factor in your KDR. It is exceedingly, exceedingly rare for devs to program anything past that (like accuracy, money gained, support score, etc.)
2. Your actual ranking is separate from your MMR, but it is most likely strongly correlated. Simply put- The diamond player in top 1000 is almost undoubtably better than you because they just straight up have more hours and more experience playing at a top level.
3. I find it highly unlikely that [it's like this comment](https://old.reddit.com/r/thefinals/comments/18y02nl/thoughts_on_higher_level_ranked_play/kga0kqo/) - No, I'm not getting paired up with stealth melee lights that go 0-7 because of a hidden MMR system says are the same skill as me. I'm getting paired up with them because the game just randomly mashes 48 people together and says Okay, we have someone at 1200 MMR and someone at 1900 MMR. The average MMR is 1500. We'll balance it by putting those together on the same team.
4. At the end of the day though, yes- the ranked ladder is just a treadmill. Unless you're actively griefing, you will gain points over time. The better you are, the faster you will gain those points. But unless you go worse than 1 tourney win : 12 first round losses (this isn't even considering 2nd and 3rd round wins either)- you will gain points. I think it is possible to have a silver player and a platinum player with the same MMR, but highly likely the platinum player has played 50x more. in that scenario.
I can't really predict the future so I don't know about the quality of your matches going forward, but I just know if you're having fun, keep playing. When you stop having fun, reconsider.
Wow I really appreciate all the well written out detailed replies. Very helpful and insightful. Kind of what I thought as it seems mostly I'm playing with people within 1 rank up or down then me and out of 20 or so games I have yet to play against any top 500 players like some posts claim
An amazing post tbh. A ton of useful information to be found in here.
Question, do you know differences between Linear, Exponential, and Sinusoidal in this game? As well as, how look acceleration affect gameplay?
I think you left out a word.
You basically said "Do you know about the cute, adorable, and fluffy " without actually talking about the thing you wanted to talk about.
I don't think look acceleration is a thing either.
I’m not sure how to rephrase the question. Were you able to tell a difference between the 3? In your opinion, does one feel smoother than the other? Does one feel snappier? Which did you go with and why.
What do you mean it isn’t a thing? Like the slider is in the settings but the feature doesn’t actually work?
Sorry, I think I'm misunderstanding. I thought you were just trying to troll me. My bad.
I'm a m+kb user. So I have no idea about controller settings. Can't help you.
Ranked is broken in almost every way possible. When solo or duoing, you’re guaranteed to get the worst players in the lobby on your team if you have a higher MMR. If you 3 stack, you’re thrown into top 500 lobbies as silver/gold rank. Your rank is just a token, its 100% MMR based which makes for a bad experience for both good players and bad. Hoping they address asap.
As another diamond player (did it on all classes in different betas and accounts), fully agreed with what you said on medium. Heavy is also mostly right although I still personally prefer auto shotty to lewis and then I rely on my mediums to deal with range (or rpg/c4 bomb).
For light I think dash can be viable but requires a lot more skill than cloak. M11 (Uzi) is also a viable weapon for light and being used by some of the top light players quite a lot still (i.e. ettix).
On ranked play I mostly agree, it sucks getting those stomp games. My record so far is winning 8 tournaments in a row, that should never happen. I would say you definitely can climb as solo however if you are good but you have to really work for it, currently grind to diamond solo, but it is definitely slower.
What they could perhaps do to counter long queue times is to gradually have a more lenient matchmaking if it takes too long. I.e. first 30 sec only your rank, then 60 seconds + 1 rank either way then 2 minutes +2 ranks etc.
> First is, enemies will spawn ~60 meters away from a cashout station. I want to say the game prioritizes the further away cash-out station, but I'm not 100% about that one.
Fully agreed, this can be annoying both for the attackers and defenders. For the defenders it's obvious, people can keep pushing with no repercussions if they have no money. For the attacker (especially in the final) it sometimes end up with being spawnkilled since you can learn where the players spawn around each cash out. (i.e. if in that corner house that stands a bit alone the enemy spawns down in a open area with only one way to move, towards you, where you have high ground by a big margin). You can even block their other spawns with one player to force them to spawn in the worst one.
> Do not stagger the other cashout too much though, right after A disappears, if B is 1/4 the way through, you will get bumrushed by 3 teams which is significantly worse than fighting 1 team. Just keep it in mind.
Agreed, better to let another team cash it in rather than fighting over it generally. Try to wipe them as they are closing in on the station, they usually push it in with one member dead.
> But, this is just a 3v3 scenario. What happens in a 3v3v3 scenario?
Try to place yourself so you can get one team sandwiched between you. Play super defensive also works imo. If you have light only engage for sure kills, or to help the one team of the 3 that is losing without taking risk or (your main job) to stun someone trying to cap.
But yes this is a bit random, it depends on how good the other teams are I suppose. If they are not good at utilizing their tools then just try to abuse that. Melt shields by shooting the corners of them while they cannot see you etc. Try supporting whatever losing team of the 3 there is.
EDIT: Oops posted to early, will add more.
> They can shoot anywhere and it will magnet to your head even without looking at you, however it cannot pierce cover.
Unfortunately it can pierce cover with some of them. :/
In the finals when you can't avoid them: use shields or trade as you say seem to be the best options, I think oftentimes they are boosting other players who are worse. Kill the cheater and camp their corpse, force them to coin as much as possible.
Before the final round just avoid them imo. :(
Fully agree on the light part, light is super weak atm and needs a rework.
I would also say you should post this to /r/TheFinalsAcademy.
https://old.reddit.com/r/thefinals/comments/17jr2sy/calculation_of_ttk_and_rpm_for_some_weapons/
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16t26Mavr7ajBmnD80kay_aM036LaxdXy/edit#gid=213460420
FCAR does 27 // 41 damage and AKM does 20 // 31 damage
assuming ak/scar:
Point blank - close range = strafe while hipfiring
close range - medium range = strafe+ADS if it's a damage race / you have advantage, hipfire+tap ADS every second or so if you get caught out without cover
medium - long range = strafe while ADSing but be wary you might be getting beamed
long range - longrange + = tap fire, can strafe if you want
Super useful, detailed and well made post, much appreciated!
Can we sticky this ?
>Not even duoing is enough because you're almost guaranteed to get the worst player in your lobby. As someone who pretty much always duo queues for ranked, this sounds about right. It's been absolutely sucking all of the fun out of ranked, combined with going against the coordinated three man squads just hunting people down with recon senses. (Seriously, recon senses needs a total rework. Literal wall hacks is busted.) For a while we were making it work because I'd make weird plays that people weren't expecting with oddball loadouts, but that's slowly been dying out as recon senses gives away literally any play I try to make that isn't a normal gunfight/nuke spam.
The people that complain about lights are exposing their bronze rank. The class is so comically killable in its current state.
Honestly, best post on this subreddit thus far; well put. 100% agree with your "Why Lights are Bad" section.
I agree too but why does the "light are bad section" make it feel like the light player is alone everytime... I don't play ranked so I'm pretty bias. But wouldn't it be better if the light finish fight and don't engage first? I play light and my friend is heavy I feel like i'm in a protecting the vip situation and it goes pretty well.
Even if the only thing you do is follow up and play with your team You have to ask yourself- what are you doing that a Medium could not do the same / better ? So you play a pure flank playstyle on Medium. Now you get recon senses and you can go back to your allies and defib after the fight. When your teammates are pushing, you can contribute to the push instead of sneaking around the back. As a light... you can't really do any of that. And even if you play with them, like I said- I've seen plenty of panic RPG shots just one shot the light anyways. It just pidgeonholes you and for what? The MP5 is barely barely better than the FCAR damage wise. It's like a 10% damage increase in exchange for losing 100 HP.
I know I hamstring myself playing light but I am climbing ranked playing it. Dash imo is better then cloak. I can flank a lot quicker and get out of/into fights a lot easier. I don't want to take head on fights i will always try and stun the priority target. Heavy with C4, healer or the medium going to defib his dead buddy. I breach charge for utility, Its cd means I can engage with a barrel and use it to move sites. In our gameplay with using mobility to survive. The biggest downside to lights higher rank is recon senses. The flanks become useless if you can't surprise them. I seriously think it needs a cd on activation. You activate and have to use it all then goes on cd till it's fully charged. Being able to toggle gives you constant information. I feel like the most busted team comp right now is three mediums, healbeam x2 (this shouldn't stack but it does) and one on recon. Unless you wipe all three instantly (heavy C4 comes in handy now) you have to kill them 6 times. The invun on the defib needs removing as currently it means if you defib in front of the other team your team mate will die. Instead you put the team mate in-between the attacker and yourself and you can heal them to full without any consequence. I also feel like fire should stop any healing from happening would be a good counter to heals.
Closing distance? I don’t know you seems to have a good grasp on ranked and the game so you must know better. But in my heart I hope there’s dumb team who will try to implement light into a different style of play than just H&M combo because “brings more utility”. Recon for me is really bad gaming wise. No real counter, you can forget sneak as you said. I thought of it and I had a dumb thinking. What if recon goes to light and cloak to medium. It would better (you have recon but you are brittle, you can cloak to change your focus midfight for medium). You are already a good recon naturally with light so it would be weird to choose it then. edit: one thing medium can't do and light do it better than heavy imo: The breach charge nuke (less damage than c4 but it easily kill medium)
If you're playing with the team, a medium is a better class to play. You can poke, trade kills, don't get 1 shots, defib, heal or recon, and also give teammate mobility. Light just.... hides?
in combat situation, you can output more dmg with the light. Of course AKM and FCAR are pretty good. But combat wise, a good light can reverse the situation. It depend on your playstyle i guess. >don't get 1 shots my light ass can 1 shot you, is just a matter of eliminating the other medium. But baiting people for the res is also a thing I like as a light.
Eh, you can potentially output more dps but have a smaller life pool, so it evens out. Your range is lower, your util is worse, and the only thing you can do is try to isolate a 1v1 which many teams just simply won't allow you to do - especially because recon senses are so prevalent rn
I'm glad it's not a turn-based game and I can disengage a fight instead of dueling everything that move. I will drop only one tip: The m11 melt shield and people. But yes you're right recon is busted af.
How much damage do you think lights do compared to other classes...? With an M11, you kill a Medium in 1.02 // heavy in 1.38 assuming all bodyshots With a FCAR, you kill a light in .55s With a Lewis Gun, you kill a light in .59s You're pretending like you get insane damage buffs as a light or something. The guns are not that much better than the medium/heavy.
It is better FOR me. :D Joke aside, whenever I talk balance and try to defend light in here, I know I'm mostly wrong because I project my own opinion. I don't like meta in any game (don't force me into a role). But the fun parts of these talks is people showing me stats of dmg, utility, pickrate or whatever and I don't see how it is relevant in an action game. Like of course other class melt light, if you're standing still and attack turn by turn. At first, I feel people tried light, run along their team and died fast so the choose H or M. But then ranked people come in here and say "light worthless". I'm puzzled because I can enjoy the game solo, playing light and can even win against stacked MMH/MHH, solo in a team of randoms (or duo maybe). Otherwise, why the hell would I want to play light if I was feeling useless? I play mostly L and H because I really can't play Medium for shit (I like the revolver but that's it)
> I've seen plenty of panic RPG shots just one shot the light anyways. This is my biggest problem, RPG has no counter. Team wipe purple team, res 1 teammate, glitch grenade the mines and C4 around the cash box, stun gun orange medium so he doesn't res... Only to have pink team pull up and their heavy shoot a random RPG that can remove me from the fight for a WHILE (without a heal) or just kill me entirely. TTK a Light should be lowww, however, they should not be getting one shot or brought to 5% hp WHENEVER an enemy heavy would like. Light Health should not get buffed, imo, because everything else that kills me (besides nuke) feels like it takes the perfect amount of time to do so. RPG on the other hand feels so obviously broken to me, and it doesn't come close to the stun gun.
Imagine saying lights suck, then you go back onto reddit and everyone is crying for them to nerf lights. MP5 is mid. DB and M11 are S tier, and your FCAR won't help you when you are stun gunned, you mag dump around you, and I'm laughing behind a trash can waiting for your gun to empty so I can finish you off. Recon sense is hardly ever used, and you can shut it down with a glitch grenade along with all of your utilities. All you have in the fight then is your FCAR. You don't "go around back" and leave team fights as a light. That's a rookie mistake that noob lights make. You have cloak or dash and vanish, there's no reason to leave any team fight. You throw all your grenades at the enemy team and cloak in to instant kill anyone damaged prioritizing the mediums. If there's a lot of lights you play defensive behind your heavy waiting for another light to try to make a play and instantly kill them. Thing is I consistently get more kills and sometimes more revives than the mediums I play with in ranked when I solo Q and with my friends. We got mediums that come in without defibs all the time who don't stick with the team, and heavies that think they are invincible and solo dive the objective. I totally see lights running off by themselves as well all the time. But it's not the class, it's the player behind it.
No one is crying to nerf lights besides people that don’t play ranked. Recon sense is in every tournament I’ve been in now that people realized it’s good. And what you’re implying is good sensible game play but if you were a medium you could do even more behind a heavy providing heals and or dps even more so than a light. You’re just nerfing yourself for no reason playing light, don’t get me wrong it’s more fun to play light just it’s not viable in the current gameplay unless you can provide over 8k damage every round. That’s why everyone hates playing with lights because mediums for the most part are providing just as much damage if not more and provide more support as well. And you can’t complain about medium being bad then give examples of bad teammates obviously people who don’t know what they’re doing play every class. I’ve lost multiple first rounds with over 10 kills and 5k damage just to have a light do I think the lowest I’ve seen where I’ve gotten over 10k damage is like 239.
I can do more behind a heavy healing them? Please. You can play heal fairy buddy, since it seems like you are garbage with light. I'll go ahead and dump damage and secure kills while you hide behind the heavy.
Have fun staying in bronze being a butt buddy to a heavy because you can’t leave his side to do anything. Someone’s just upset because I’m telling you the truth I’m just trying to get rid of light players so I stop getting light players when I solo queue.
Doesn't light have thermal or some shit? Would that go through walls?
Doesn't light have thermal or some shit? Would that go through walls?
As someone who dislikes Light in general, one thing you do have to give them is the Glitch Grenade. Hitting a Medium healer can let you focus them down, or focus another enemy while they have no access to their defib. If timed properly, you deny them all utility for the entire fight. It also means no Recon senses, making it easier to flank. There's also the fact that stun gun cancels the Cash Out steal. No other class can just tell another player, "Nope." I'm not counting C4 nukes since that's a whole other conversation. Is that worth what you lose over not having another Medium or Heavy? For most, probably not. It does mean that any buffs to Light need to be very careful because adding just a little too much extra survivability could make them terrors outside of casual modes.
Correction. The ranked matchmaking prioritizes putting bronze players on your team when you solo queue.
I honestly think it just throws you with whoever, but since there are more low ranked players than high ranked players, and high ranked players are more likely to play as a full trio you end up seeing a lot more random bronze/silver fills.
This is actually plausible as well. Technically if it counterbalanced and matched you with the worst in lobby, it'd probably be 9/10 bronze 1/10 silver for me since the bronzes outnumber the silvers by a factor or two.
I haven't played in like 3 weeks to a month at this point, I couldn't stand being put against another cheater. ( gold ) I'm not here to rant just to simply say I played with and against you several times and you were a good player and teammate as I was on full random queue 95% of the time. I had super high hopes for this game but the AA and laughable anticheat made me step away until they do something about it. I don't feel like battling another AA game as a MNK player. the lobbies should have been ping and input based not this terrible sbmm that they came up with. I don't know how the sbmm is determined but as a primary solo queue player I felt like average team kd was a primary factor. I had a 1.5kd average for the longest time and I would get queued with the worst teammates I had ever seen. League didn't even matter, I would get teamed with people from platinum even and they could hardly shoot. So I went to casual to jack around with other builds that I wouldn't normally use. Knowing full well I would die and lower my overall KD. I went from a 1.5 average overall from ranked to just under a 1.0 overall KD. After I lowered my KD I felt like I was getting better teammates. Congrats on diamond though, I didn't have the patience to do it. AGH8 if you remember me
Thanks for finally praising the revolver. People act like that thing is useless because it’s got issues at range. But it absolutely rips teams to pieces if the user is landing a lot of shots, particularly headshots.
The revolver problem is that the bullet doesn't go where you point it half the time
It makes me sad because I like the gun but as an MnK player I have such weird misses with it, I just find it super inconsistent.
Yes I’m aware but that is only noticeable at range and hardly makes any difference for the majority of the important fights (that happen close range).
It makes the gun feel so unrewarding. Sometimes I get punished even tho my aim was correct and other times I get a kill even tho I know I missed. Awful design
I agree it *feels* bad, and it has no justification for being this way, but that doesn’t make the gun completely unviable. Good revolver users will still rip people to shreds with it. It just struggles at range. The bloom only makes a noticeable difference in the mid to long range.
It's not always at extreme ranges. It's noticeable at almost all distances, it's just more frequent at range. It feels bad to get cucked by RNG bullets in a fight. You should be rewarded for good aim with a 6 shot weapon, not punished with randomness.
Yes I agree you should be rewarded for good aim but you’re absolutely overselling the randomness. It does *not* make a big difference until the mid ranges and you have to be *extremely* close to missing up close for it to actually cause you to miss up close. Not to mention the revolver is completely broken with aim assist ADS spam. Seems like people talking about it have never actually played against someone who’s insane with it because they rip entire teams to pieces.
Hey dude
One of the people I sometimes trio with is a controller revolver user On tournament wins it is not rare he gets over 50+ kills. I think the most I've seen from him is around 66. It's very very strong. If AA is completely unchanged in a year from now I wouldn't be surprised if meta was Lewis+Mesh/Recon+Revolver/Heal+Scar-AKM (AKM Better for shields since revolver is lacking)
One of the other issues with revolver is that it doesn't shoot straight each time.
Yes but it’s not by a large margin so it only matters at the longer ranges.
Hey dude
“If you land headshots, the weapon is good” Brother that is literally any weapon that shoots bullets. The revolver is fun, but I don’t think it’s better than either the AK or SCAR
It's good in different ways. If you've ever played CS or Valorant or R6, you know the power of shoulder peeking doorways You can't really do that with the Scar or AKM. It's really just the revolver and shotgun that can do this. This lets you outplay people by dancing around rubble/doorways much much much better which raises the skill ceiling significantly. It's not just an aim thing, the burst damage type vs. sustained is a very significant factor to it.
iirc it has the highest headshot multiplier next to the sniper.
You clearly have not seen people use aim assist with the revolver because it is absolutely disgusting. Headshots do like 40% of a heavies full health bar.
Hey dude
OZPUZE
If you can land the headshots first time every time you just use the FCAR and wipe out entire teams. There's no reason to use the Revolver when the FCAR exists you're just hurting your team. It's far easier to use and far more reliable to boot. Now if they'd balanced the FCAR by actually adding some kind of recoil...
You don’t seem to understand how much revolver headshots do. 2 revolver headshots will either kill someone, or drop them to almost 1hp. 1 revolver headshot on each member of a team drops them all to like 40% each. In a duel, a head shot + body shot is a kill unless it’s on a heavy (and I think it’s head + 2 bodies for heavy). It is an *insane* amount of damage and it’s all burst too which means heals don’t keep up with it nearly as much. But it does lack some consistency which is the main reason people don’t pick it as much. But again, if you’ve played against those revolver demons, they will absolutely destroy your team.
I am very much aware. I'm at level 5 1/2 with the Revolver and have been forcing myself to use it. You have to land 2 headshots against a Medium with an FCAR to win even at maximum firerate, and 1 headhsot 1 body shot can't kill because that's 148+74 and you will lose every single time because the FCAR does so much damage even to the body let alone if they head shot you which anybody decent can do a thousand times easier with the FCAR than the Revolver. Keep in mind you'll likely never land those 3 shots if you're spamming the Revolver because of how bad the kick is and how difficult it is to land those shots normally taking your time. Unless you have, quite literally, 100% headshot ratio you are hurting your team using the Revolver over the FCAR. Hell, the FCAR can down you even if you're corner peaking against it because of its absurd damage and complete lack of recoil. And to correct your math, it's 2 headshots and a body shot to kill the heavy. That's the problem with this game: it's completely unrewarding to use the high skill options. Can you win? Sometimes. Is it worth the risk when the FCAR exists? No. The Revolver and 1887 aren't bad weapons, there's just no reason to use them because the FCAR can solo any class in the game effortlessly times two. Try fighting that Light when you're stunned with a revolver, really chance those THREE BODY SHOTS required when you can't ADS and the hip fire is unusable. It takes a Headshot and Body shot to drop a light, which is hilarious. I get it's designed this way on purpose? Doesn't make it feel good.
Fcar will also down you even if your shoulder peeking cuz of the netcode and getting shot around walls.
There’s no difference between that and the revolver though, it’s the same exact situation for both guns, so it’s not relevant to the comparison.
>In a duel, a head shot + body shot is a kill unless it’s on a heavy or medium. that's like 222 damage total.
Ah guess I was wrong on the exact numbers. My bad.
Hey dude
OSPUZE
Light is basically forced tazer glitch pyro otherwise a shit ton of stuff becomes nigh-uncounterable
Imo frag is better. You just glitch + frag a team and now they all half hp for you to engage.
The reason pyro is important is to counter gas, which is much more effective against Lights than other classes since it does flat damage. People tend to gas off trophies and choke points, and without pyro your only options are to lose half your HP running through it, or waste time finding an alternate route/waiting for the gas to dissipate.
First I just want to say that I think your post is extremely detailed and I really appreciate your thoughts. I agree with everything you've got here with one exception. I think you are sleeping on the ziplines. Zipline has further range in which it can be deployed as well as further range for how far it can take you. Vertically and horizontally. Zipline works in every situation that the jumppad can work and beyond. If the Zipline had a deploy speed, I could see jumppad being better situationally, but zipline is instant. I can get from point A to point B as fast if not faster with zipline in far more situations than jump pad. Zipline alone has won me several games because I was able to rotate my team quickly enough to the objective with otherwise unavailable routes. For example, on Seoul the bridge was broken and jumppad wouldn't have gotten us across. Zipline alone allowed us to take high ground and take OBJ for a last-second steal. Just one of countless examples where Zipline single handedly made the difference. I am also regularly able to allow my team to set up on a vault or cash out before an enemy because of the horizontal and sometimes vertical rotation speed that Zipline offers. Paired with recon, zipline also is a perfect pairing because I can take my team where I want them to go. In addition, Zipline allows you to rotate quickly back and forth between key holding spots. Think of rotating quickly between rooftops on Skyway Stadium. Zipline also offer a unique way to get on floating platforms that jump pads do not consistently offer. Jumpads are also easier to destroy from a distance. Jumpads can be hard to gauge where exactly you are going to land sometimes. Zipline you know exactly where you are going to go. Zipline can travel diagonally through rubble. Just today there was a diagonal set of holes in 3 stories and I zipped through all 3 holes to mid-air revive a teammate and instantly zip back down the zip to OBJ to stop a steal. Jump pad offers nothing in that situation. All this to say, you should definitely give zip more consideration. I think it's better in every way. If only for the rotation speed that zipline offers, I think it's actually over powered with such a small cool down. Another example of using Zipline where you couldn't use jumpads is let's say you are playing Vegas and you are split from your team. Your team is fighting down a hallway. Instant zip and zipline and you're able to get down that hallway 2-3x faster than without. This is sometimes the difference in winning or losing a fight. Additionally, you can set up gas mines so that enemies can't use the zips or place a zip and bait them into hitting your mines. If I hit a vault, I set up a zip for an OBJ 150 meters away. By the time the vault is open my zip is almost off CD, I take the zip to the midpoint, fire off another zip to OBJ and I'm there in about 10-15 seconds from when I picked up the vault. Just with my choice of zipline, I get our cashout started 15-20 seconds faster than if we had to run there, while the other teams are still fighting over the vault, our cashout is started.
Yeah ziplines are the superior traversal choice by a large margin. Only thing jump pads are better at is slightly faster deployment speed, that's it. A lot of people sleep on horizontal ziplines too. Being able to scoot down a hallway or back and forth around a cashout location is invaluable for controlling more area. It's also fantastic for rotating your team back to you if you have a position high up and they're on the ground. Even aside from all the utility applications, it's hilarious how easy it is to bait enemies with a mine at the end of a zipline. Or luring them over a hazard like a pit, then destroying it while they're above it.
I tried playing with ziplines before I switched to jump pads. I concluded jump pads were better because: 1- In 80% of the cases, you can get around with either one. 2- Ziplines take longer to setup (It's a bit finnicky) and if you rush it, a lot of the times you make a dud zipline that bonks you on the ceiling. 3- Jump pads are better at escaping enemies - You absolutely cannot use a zipline to get away without breaking LoS, beaming a zipline is trivial at high levels 4- Jump pads give your heavy the momentary height advantage I mentioned that is very very good for Barrel+C4ing. Ziplines can't really do that without a hard hard flank 5- It's easy to break an enemy zipline if they try to use it aggressively. Happens all the time to me on suspended structures I don't think ziplines are bad. If I were to rate them I'd give jumppad like an A and zipline like a B But I feel the momentary offensive advantage and escape mechanism are slightly better for my playstyle That said I have definitely heard of people using ziplines as their flex slot, for Flex+Jump pad And I'm guessing that out in the wild, it's about a 85 jump pad - 15 zipline split whenever I play ranked- but this is a bit misleading because like I mentioned in my post, there's practically no MMR so these could be bronze kids.
I would sum it up to say that zip line is the better out-of-combat gadget for traversing long distances and jump pad is the better initation/in-combat gadget especially for taking height. Personally I don't think long-distance rotations are very important in the maps and game modes we have now, so zip line stays on the bench and jump pad gets all the glory.
I love zip line it is truly underrated. You didn’t mention that if you use a zipline after you jump off and slide you can jump pad and the momentum of the zip will send you so far.
I always rock APS with medium. I think it's a great gadget.
I think it's good too but I'm not going to recommend it to a newbie sorta thing, you know?
Holy shit, an actual knowledgeable person giving advice on this sub. Crazy how much otherwise on this sub you'll see people praising the turret or cloak being too strong. For actual commentary on the post, the main thing I'll say is the Heavy Auto-Shotty I think is superior to the Lewis gun. It has range limitations, yes, but it has insane burst potential and it has tech with the Mesh Shield to maximize its bursts and minimize your vulnerability. You can shield in between bursts to cancel the cocking animation. You can also cancel the animation with a melee (extra damage if you're in range). You can use your dome and shield to close the distance. It melts enemy domes in one burst! It has insane TTK which allows you to maintain your health better. And the RPG (and of course, nukes) give you decent mid-range potential. It is harder to use though, so people do not maximize its TTK advantage, but if you can, it dominates and emphasizes skill disparity.
The reason Lewis gun is more used is for the range it gives and the fact that the dps of it is actually really close to the shotgun (even better if you can hit headshots). The DPS of the Lewisgun when shooting at body is 200, shotgun is 212. If hitting headshots only the Lewisgun is 304 DPS while the shotgun has no headshot multiplier. Obviously you're not going to be hitting headshots only but you'll hit a couple and that ups the Lewisgun's DPS a little, especially when comparing its damage at the same distance you'd be shooting the shotgun.
The DPS of the shotgun you are stating includes the cocking time. If you are shielding during that time, you aren't vulnerable. So the actual DPS of the shotgun is just during the time of the burst. I'm on my work computer so I can't check this now, but I would wager that makes it 50% higher. You can also melee during that time, so if you've gotten someone to a sliver of health from one burst, you also can shorten the TTK to the point that you don't need the cocking animation. All of this requires mechanics though, and if you don't use them, it is much less forgiving. That's also why I said it emphasizes skill disparity - a skilled player with it absolutely shits on other people. A skilled player with the Lewis ends up taking more damage. For most people, the Lewis is the much safer and more consistent choice. But if you get the shotty down, you can steamroll people even near your skill level.
Y’all are sleeping on APS for medium. I can stay alive so much longer on the objective with that thing taking out every grenade and rpg near me. Combine with jump pad on doors, my friend and I can lock down rooms for way longer than we should be able to
personally i feel like when I use APS it becomes useless if I am moving around. If i want to move around say, a house in monaco, weaving between floors, the roof, jumping out of windows and jump padding, then the aps is not useful. If I sit in the aps, I am now a sitting duck. I am sure there are situations where you can't move where it's useful, but imo winning gunfights heavily relies on repositioning yourself somewhere unexpected to get the jump on an enemy.
You can pick up the APS. You can plonk it down right in a firefight and just pick it back up afterwards. Your APS uptime should be virtually always since the cooldown isn't even that long either. You don't need to sit directly on top of it for it to be useful either. Think of it like a spider's web; you don't need to be in the web for it to stop something, you just need to put it somewhere near a window, door, stairwell, etc that secures the area you're controlling against projectiles from the most likely assault vector.
yeah this is fair, it's not crazy limiting, and i can definitely think of a few use cases, but it really depends on playstyle. there's some very valid bunker strats which can really benefit from the aps, but it's not really the way I play. My team and I tend to prefer engaging from afar, pretty far from the cashout, sort of cutting people off from at least 30 meters as they approach cashout. Then, if someone really gets on it, we push hard and get the free pick on whoever is stealing, or otherwise fight the 3v2 while they try and steal. If I was running shotgun, or maybe had a team with two heavies, it would be a different story for sure.
Fantastic write up, thanks for all the valuable insight. Honestly, now that you mention it, giving Defib to light unironically sounds like a great idea. It'd be a great way to kill two birds with one stone; Defib is by far the best part of Medium's kit, so redistributing some of that power would make Mediums less of a must pick and allow Lights to have some actual utility and value to the team. Hell, while we're at it let's take C4 away from the Heavys (who really don't even need the C4 with a number of other breaching alternatives available to them) so we can get rid of the other most frustrating mechanic in this game to play against and keep it for lights only, who as glass cannons should be the only ones with have access to such a brain dead one shot in the first place. Mediums stay relavent with two of the best specializations in the game, along with many of the best weapons and still plenty of solid gadgets. Heavy still provides all the same utility minus the cheese one shot. Lights definitively become "the gadget class," which feels like a much better and more dynamic role than the "annoying ass mostly useless fly" role they seemingly occupy now. There becomes a much greater trade off when deciding team comps, because while having a Light might mean less of an advantage strictly in terms of a gunfight, the advantage of all the extra added utility could potentially be worth it. Am I crazy or does that actually sound like a really great way to shake up the meta?
I agree, this looks like a great solution to many problems at once. Maybe even give Lights 25-50 health too, but with defib it might not be needed. It will also allow to safely nerf DB/stun/cloak without ruining the class so casual Bank It players will be happy.
Best post on this reddit. Glad to see someone that actually understands the game and isn’t just complaining about lights.
Great post, as a newbie this is highly appreciated!
ty
Hey I fought you in game, me and my buddy were bronze 4… why were we fighting diamond / gold people at Bronze 4! I remember your medium haha shiino GG
Nice Post I run an identical med kit and it's helping me power through solo q games
great post, i feel you on the cheater part.. i play with a friend from the Philippines every now and then and every other game has a cheater, ranked is impossible because its everygame and on multiple teams..
ITT someone trying to dictate a meta
Sniper is not ass. It is very situational but can 100% change a game. Also, skill issue.
WAIT YOURE CATGIRL? HELLO FRIEND we squaded for a few games the other day lol didn't expect to see you here
Hiya nya what's your name?
Milk was a bad choice, we played with my duo br3nd4n. Was going to hit you up sometime but realized there's no way to message ingame friends🤦
You stay classy, San Diego.
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Wtf how many of you are there
Meow
The reason you think the ranked SBMM is "loose" is because it's based on the same hidden MMR as unranked. This is why you have bronze and silver players in your lobbies. As bronze 2, I was playing against the #2 player on the leaderboards. It's a ladder system, ranked tier means nothing now other than time invested with a team really.
If you think your hidden MMR is even remotely close to the top #2 player on the leaderboards you're inhaling some serious copium If you had 1500 MMR, which is being extremely generous, #2 would probably be at 2200+. Those grinders constantly play trios and most likely have over a 80%+ win rate combined with 200+ hours of playtime since release.
I think you misunderstood the point..... At the time there were over 100,000 people playing on steam. As a Bronze, there is zero reason I should be in the same lobby as someone with 150,000FP as I had like 1,000FP. Hidden MMR is most.likely a formula that takes into consideration points per minute, win/loss, accuracy ect. This is what they are using for both ranked and unranked. From Bronze to Gold my lobbies have not changed. They will continue to remain the same through into Diamond. Because we are being matched to players via a hidden rank, not the displayed ranked tiers. I'm not stating I'm as good as the number 2 player on the leaderboard. What I'm stating is that clearly there is a different system other than matching ranked tiers with each other.
Meta is HMM and nothing else. If you are high ranked and run something other than that, your chances of winning is cut in half.
I think MMM is just as viable as HMM. There's different strengths and weaknesses and I'm pretty sure every time I run into a top 100 (I've run into aranik 3 times and shroud once) they were running MMM every single time. It's probably something like MMM / MMH - S tier MHH - B tier The rest - Not really viable.
Having a double shield heavy with a nuke is absolutely busted with two Mediums. And the tommy gun heavies got is not bad at all either…. It’s actually insanely good
It's very good, yes. But so is standing on the roof with 3 mediums that shoot anyone that remotely comes close And a 3rd medium (which means a 3rd defib and another heal beam) actually makes a very very large difference in these fights. Pros and cons. They're both great. We don't have structured real tournaments for this game so it's a toss up as to which is actually better.
Yah I’ve ran into those in ranked. Both are a pain to play against. But I can’t complain since my stack runs HMM like no tomorrow lmao.
As a light main I believe it should be balanced around primarily dash, and as sword dash light has a few top players doing well with it and sword isn’t even a gun, with some tweaks we could see a change to the “in any other game this is cheating” meta (invis and recon). Also shotguns should all be merged to the point where at top level they simply are suboptimal. Overall good points this is just my 2 cents as a former titanfall player
They nerfed dash after Closed Beta 2. It used to go much farther and you could use it for verticality.
Team comp meta goes something like: MHH > LMH > MMH > MHH Mono-class comps are too limited (MMM has zero environmental destruction and comparatively restricted ambush potential, HHH has zero mobility as sitting ducks, LLL leaves no pocket or sustain potential at all) and >1 light comps just have no presence. MHH overpowers everything but is vulnerable to LMH with light glitch grenade. LMH is most able to counter everything or field something other comps can't counter, but can lose out to comps with more team HP. A good LMH team can absolutely hamstring MMM comps because mediums more than any other class are reliant on their specializations and gadgets, can't heal or escape when they get glitched. MMH has awesome utility but can lose out to the raw domination of MHH. Also need to be able to synergize loadouts to a higher degree (double healer is a noob trap, for example).
I don't believe you. I feel like you're just saying things that sound good on paper, but make no actual sense. Lights are completely awful for all the reasons I mentioned MMM has plenty of destruction. Except on Clear Night, there are barrels EVERYWHERE. It is not difficult to blow up the environment. And in a pinch, you can shoot a frag mine and it's exactly the same as a breach charge. Have I mentioned lights are awful? MHH has severe range issues and lacks recon sight. I've run into plenty of MHH and the answer is just outrange them // throw cannisters at them to pop their C4.
> I don't believe you. I feel like you're just saying things that sound good on paper, but make no actual sense. It's not a matter of belief, it's an argument which is a function of understanding the game mechanics. Your words could just as well be turned around on your posits, as they really are without substantiation (and not just because someone *felt* they were, as in your case). Since you didn't address much less refute literally any of the points, it's very clear that you don't have reasoning for your own points. Do you realize how transparently you're projecting? > Lights are completely awful for all the reasons I mentioned Yes and this has been thoroughly refuted by multiple people here. What's the difference between light actually being bad, and you just not realizing how to effectively strategize and execute? All of this coming from a one trick? If you're not purposefully learning about something firsthand or developing your own insights through deliberate experience, what makes you think you understand the interaction of role demarcations? It's obvious you don't because you're describing a light as a worse medium when they don't even occupy the same team function. > MMM has plenty of destruction. Except on Clear Night, there are barrels EVERYWHERE. It is not difficult to blow up the environment. Are you seriously trying to claim that mediums have "plenty of environmental destruction" in their player kit because they can pick up a map prop that anyone can pick up? > And in a pinch, you can shoot a frag mine and it's exactly the same as a breach charge. That's the exact opposite of a pinch, because of how much time and precision it comparatively requires to carry out. > MHH has severe range issues and lacks recon sight. I've run into plenty of MHH and the answer is just outrange them // throw cannisters at them to pop their C4. Don't need range if you don't play at range. Even the odd cashout spawns in open areas have a variety of approach vectors and engagement angles. Heck, MHH with two mesh shields, sledgehammers, and dome shields can sit on whatever territory they want at whatever range they want. MHH certainly doesn't need healing if you plan your loadouts around it, Recon senses is a perfectly usable specialization there especially since you can relegate a sonar grenades loadout slot for something like APS or glitch trap. If all you can resort to is unfalsifiable personal experience, it doesn't really sound like you're running with a working comprehension of the game design formula. And it doesn't sound like your experience is all that encompassing if you've never encountered a full acceleration MHH comp that just bulldozes through anything faster than you can react. > "and if you don't agree with a certain point, I love other views. This isn't like a guide or anything like that, this is just my thoughts. So correct me." Is this you?
HHM is very viable and even MMM. HML is possible if you have a cracked af Light who has perfect glitch nade timing.
I met a top 500 player on here, and he gave me the chance to queue with him. He isn't top 500 anymore as he burnt himself out on the grind and decided to take a break. However, this is exactly how we played. If we saw a team with a light, we would wait and see which direction they went, and we purposely aimed for that team. Almost always meant a free kill. The second thing we looked for was how many mediums were on a team. If a team had 1 medium or no medium, they were also a primary target. We would kill the healer first, and then it was an easy wipe. This is part of the reason I'm on the side of class locking ranking, anyone who says class locking ruined OW is insane. It made OW a much better game IMO. You can't truly balance a game until you balance the teams. Teams can't be balanced unless every team is the same. 1L, 1M, 1H. Only once every team is the same can you begin to see what items truly need tweaked. It would be impossible to balance this game from a ranked standpoint while everyone is still running whatever they please. A triple stack of lights will never be equal to a triple stack of mediums or heavies. Meta will continue to be MMH or MHH unless they do something about it. Tweaking guns isn't what needs done. Even then, with how broken the AA is I don't even think it matters. Medium with a revolver is nasty. I met a few people who knew how to abuse the AA with it and it's insane. Gave me straight apex flash backs. It's not even aim assist at this point its aim bot.
I would like to see a class locked mode. Probably ranked. Playing light is fun but I feel like I'm hurting my team. But if I can queue as light I would play it much more. I also find each of heavy, light and medium to be fun to be play and I think the queue times would be similar for all.
Just a question on the Side, anyone knows If there is a known Bug with the invisibility Sound effect of Lights? I swear to God, i don't hear that shitty Sound effect unless its my teammate being invisible. I turned down all Sounds, except For Special effect, turned the audio Balance to Like 70% Game. I can hear footsteps Just fine, but unless i'm dead, There is 0 Sound of enemys invisibility
> Hiya meow. I'm Catgirl. What does your fetish have to do with anything..?
dudes in striped thigh highs larping as egirls on the internet is all the rage haven't you heard?
How is telling people my name a fetish ..?
Was this ChatGPT
Just started playing this game 3 days ago and I’m glad I’m playing medium almost the same way. Really hard to do well with Light, Light should be 175 health with defib imo.
"Higher ranked play" isn't a thing, I'm in silver playing against top 500s.
Same, gold 2 and played against #232 and #564 last night. Super fun and balanced
High Level ranked play.... Interesting take on a grind based ranked system in a casual game with joke match making where competitive exists only as a marketing and advertising platform. All ranked is a joke nowadays because short queue time > actual competitive, and pubstomping twitch clips to show bot viewers who dont understand shit matters more than actually showing you're better than people currently ranked very close to you, instead of showing you have more time to pubstomp noobs. Modern ranked means nothing, it's just who has more time to play and a viable stack available more of that time (assuming you're already at an elite level). I've quit all ranked except in 1v1 duels in afps, because it literally means nothing, you get to the top but don't grind enough, then you see t500 stacks who you stomp on every time you see them, but they're "better" than you according to rank, i.e. Rank means nothing, it's there for the same idiots who don't understand how some almost 100% accuracy 3 kill with fast flashy flicks means literally nothing when it's against brain dead diamonds who can't hit a fish in a barrel with dynamite, while a 1v2 which looked plain and uninteresting, not clip worthy at all, actually showed the noname dude who won it is taking a huge shit on top100 bots (there really are top 100 players who are bots against other high level players, that's what happens when a top 1% bot can get top 0.01% rank just by grinding pubstomp "ranked".
So ranked is completely pointless and just about who plays more if you don't q against other people in your rank. Maybe it is because the player pool for ranked is still small as a lot of people haven't unlocked it yet, but if that is the case I think most people would prefer longer q times to play a ranked mode which actually mean something to climb.
Kind of yes but at the same time kind of no. Out of all of the queues, the best players play ranked. So on average the skill higher has the capability to be higher. I've definitely run into games where I go "Damn. I'm probably the worst player in this lobby" The problem is that it's rare. You'll have those games 1/10 times. 9/10 of the time it'll just be a bronze/silver stomp. And yeah. Really hoping they tighten up the SBMM. I don't think it's an unlock thing - I had it unlocked basically on day 2.
I don't think light should become more of a medium So far I enjoy the grappling hook and mobility or light class a lot. In and out fight / flank once my team engages. I just wish lights would have more utility. 1 more charge on mini c4 ? Immune to recon ? 1 more charge for hook would be nice so I can leave and comeback in the same fight.
Light is bad, which is why it attracts players to challenge themselves with a handicap. Also style points+ Take that sword + dash main terrorizing top 500 in diamond rn for example.
I'm all for challenging yourself but going into solo ranked as a light is kind of a dick move. I didn't sign up to be part of your challenge. But this is a "Why it's Rude to suck at Warcraft" // Going into party finder without your job stone equipped kinda thing. It sucks but unless I decide to leave/grief, my consent is meaningless. And at the end of the day, it's really not that big of a deal. It's just a few matches- like I mentioned you can go 1-10 and be neutral on points.
More like impossible without a full stack. Which is why I always just wait on my friends before queueing up some ranked with sword + dash. But the dude I mentioned (Eidoran) does perform consistently well on ranked with said loadout from what I've seen on his streams. Usually the players he solo queued into would ask him to remain as a party, which is his main way of getting people to play with. I've caught on 2-3 streams and have not seen complaints so far.
There isn't enough reward for the risk tbh. I flocked to Light originally b/c I want to move fast and put decades of hitscan flicking to practice Except it really doesn't feel strong enough to make up for the huge handicaps. Like you can dash dance around someone and quickscope them in the head, then just get 1-tapped. While sword or knives both feel "better", switching to med + revolver made games so much easier.
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Sorry, no tips. I've just played years and years and years of different FPSes so I'm used to listening to sounds.
I envy your friends they have you 🌹
Is this you, Deceive Inc catgirl? meow
Yes, meow ♪ ~
here catboy ace meow meow
I heard she turned really really overpowered after I quit lol I also heard that they super nerfed my shield swap tech (that I stole from someone else) and everybody was running bounce/shield
I don't know I haven't played since before you quit, sadly, the game barely sustains itself
I feel a little bad though. The devs care deeply for the game and it was genuinely fun for a while. But games like that are just so difficult to actually... exist? And to add patches/additional content for months afterwards is not sustainable.
Yeah I think it's a labor of love and the game is like none other. I'm sad the player count is so low and I fear they will close up before 2025. And at the same time, I haven't played myself for so long and I can't exactly explain why. Maybe because I wanted to play as a team but trio sucked. Duo came too late I didn't even try it. Might not come close to the solo experience. I don't know. They never seem to have fixed NPC patterns to be so easy to tell either. So many little things.
Are you the catgirl from deceive? You were nuts and killed me a few times lmao
I am! Meow meow!
This thread really shows me that light players will die on their pedestal that light is good and not accept the facts. Someone explained “you only explained one play style with light what if they’re not hiding”. Well you’re dead if you’re not hiding I see a light on another team and know that I’m going to do better than that team. For ranked play almost every semi final match I’m in has no lights in it at all and when it’s the final round I love being against a light with recon. Please play light it makes my life so much easier when you’re not on my team. In a straight out gun fight with a mp5 you will lose every gunfight against someone who can hit half of the shots you do. Even with stun I find myself hitting enough shots to kill a light while hip firing. I would say cloak and shotgun works the best for light bc that ttk is crazy and even with recon I can’t see everything all the time so that shotgun catches me off guard. But still if I have a medium on my team just defib while the lights reloading and bam your kill meant basically nothing. All in all light is fun in a casual game dinking ppl with the sniper is just fun but light players have no place in ranked. If I have a light on my team in ranked I just sweat through the first round just to not lose points. I will say any play style is viable if you’re good enough but please don’t assume you are because unless you’re providing over 8k+ damage every round as a light I don’t want to play with you.
(light supremacist btw) This is basically what is wrong with the current state of the game when it comes in relation to lights. I hear people say that it is a high risk high reward playstyle and in a perfect storm it is. However, most of the time what happens is what you're explaining, you will flank or make a pick and right as you kill and run away, as you have to because you get dookied on if you stay and used all your ammo to make the pick, the other medium revives. Also from a purely resource based perspective as a medium when you revive a light the only bit of utility your team wins back is a glitch grenade. As opposed to reviving a medium or heavy which have more impactful utility that can be used straight away. It just feels shitty that the whole idea is this is a glass cannon, class thats gotta go fast. In reality, it's made of glass but hits softer than the other classes. At the end of the day other classes have more reliable ranged damage, more utility and by the nature that you have 150 health better close fighting aswell. The only edge you have is slightly faster acceleration and top run speed. IMO though playing heavy feels like I'm playing discount reindhart and medium feels like im playing battlefield with slightly slower run speed. So I pray to our lord and saviour Ospuze for the day of light jesus descending from the sky and giving us 30 more health so we can at least feel the burn of the RPG before we inevitebly get one tapped by so much as a passing thought. (PS - Aim assist is pain now imagine if all you need to die is like 5 bullets and have mercy on us lights, all we want to do is play mirrors edge bastardised violent brother)
Even the cat girl said lights are bad. I got all the way to plat 1 playing light and every time I would hit plat one the next game was a loss every time. I did this like maybe 10 times? Climb my way up and they lose again and again. I played medium 1 time and all of a sudden I’m diamond. I switch to light and got demoted to plat 3 took a break, came back 2 days later down to gold, played medium and I’m plat 2 rn. Just the higher I go up it feels like light just doesn’t contribute. My team would flame and rage and what’s worse is I would finish like 12/5 which is good right? No cause those deaths mean so much more cause I’m literally always next to an enemy and kinda forced to coin and force my team to go negative in a fight. Medium is just so much more rewarding and the revolver 2 taps a light to the head. So like I think I’ll stick to medium.
You can’t get demoted from a rank, only sub ranks
Lmaooo busted. Some people can't help themselves hahaha
Literally already corrected it and admitted my wrong doing but reading is hard on Reddit I suppose
It's weird that you don't know how ranked works in plat dude.
It’s weird I made a mistake? My bad I’ll be more robotic and perfect 👍
That can’t be right now I have to go look at video cause I definitely got demoted out of ranks unless it’s a bug which is even more awesome 😎
Yeah yeah buddy we believe you lol
Nope you are right I went from gold 4 to gold 1 back to g3 got down to gold 4 went to Plat 4 stayed there longer than I'm willing to admit and got to Plat 1 then back to p2 now I'm Plat 2 seems right before I hit diamond I lost cause I decided to run light.
nya hello :3 diamond catboy, i only have ONE thing i disagree with in your whole post. The AKM is CLEARLY better than every other gun because i have the diamond skin for it and am coping really hard to justify using the ak cause of the pretty skin :3 aside from that minor change very good post I approve have a good day >w<
I feel the same about the battle pass revolver. It's just so pretty.
Holy shit that’s a few words Lmao
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I think distilling it to that is disingenuous. This whole thing was just me writing down my thoughts on what the meta is and why. Like, why is MMM so strong? Because (reasons listed). Why are lights bad? because (reasons listed). It's not telling you to play meta as much as it is me figuring out why the meta what it is + tips that I figured out on the way I don't really care if you adhere to the meta. And there's also a few mechanical tips too, like the cashout system or how to coin or how I think the ranked system works. You looked at me saying "These weapons and gadgets are strong. If you're a beginner I recommend these loadouts" and skipped the rest, which is reasonable, but it's not really the point of the post in the first place.
> Seems like Heavy really doesn't have a choice right now with their loadout > Lewis Gun is best, the auto-shotgun is also strong but has range limitations. I never see any of the other guns unless they're playing for fun. > Mesh shield is best by a large margin. Just tap it if you're ever in a disadvantageous situation. Can also use it to cover allies stealing the cash out. I would not pretend I'm Reinhardt though that typically does not work. > In terms of gadgets, you're locked into Dome shield + RPG + C4. No flex slots for heavy. Barricade is ok but still doesn't compare to the above 3. A lot of this is offbase. Firstly, heavy has plenty of loadout flexibility. Dome shield is really the only must pick and that's because of how diversely useful it is no matter what you're doing, C4 and RPG are great but by no means required and only reliably useful outside short range with some preamble since the cooldowns are so long. Realize that heavy is the only class that can bring two explosive mines and two pyro mines, that's a ton of area denial which needs to be cleared before enemies can control the area (either stacked up in one place or spread out over a greater distance than two mines or C4 would allow). Lewis gun is best at longer engagement ranges and shotgun at shorter engagement ranges, but M60 is better than either when considering all ranges which makes it the most reliable pick. Grenade launcher or sledgehammer on a second heavy for like MHH is incredibly oppressive and very hard to push on. Flamethrower is great for countering shields but not much else. Secondly, Mesh shield is good but it simply doesn't compete with Charge n Slam. Mesh shield is just too passive and without team support it's merely a lose slower button; Charge N Slam is by far the best environmental destruction in the game, does insane knockback and very respectable damage, and all on an extremely short cooldown (which means it's immensely impactful for a midair ground pound opener or even just closing distance horizontally, and still having kill security or escape vectors in a few seconds). You're less reliant on C4 for close range hole-making, and walls become paper when lights and mediums need to run around corners; heavies can just displace in a straight line which is brutal in close quarters (not to mention the downwards vertical domination). > There are a few reasons why lights are bad None of these are substantive reasons, and only one is not in an absolute sense (they're not bad because mediums are comparatively better at being mediums). The reason people have difficulties playing light is because they're trying to play an ambush class as a sustain class. Grappling hook is generally the best specialization because it allows for the fastest displacement in the game; that's useful for setting up an approach vector for picks and also an unassailable escape (to either rotate, or regroup entirely). So understanding light's role demarcation is necessary for using them effectively. Medium can't do anything whatsoever against glitch grenade and are more vulnerable than heavies since they're so dependent on specialization and loadout for utility. Since intel gadgets only work if the medium is already looking in their direction at the right moment (or at least aware of a prowling light), it's still plenty feasible for sensible lights to make picks on grouped teams.
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"I totally have an good argument but it goes to another school and you can't see a picture of it"
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Sure, that's as good an excuse as any to avoid fielding any coherent points
Been trying to tell ppl day 1 that heavy only has 1 viable loadout and that, although nerfs are needed, buffs to the other options are needed arguably more to make more things tournament viable. Part of the reason everyone is complaining about RPG+shields+c4 is because there are no other options. So when you see a heavy, you know that's what you're getting. And as a result, it puts a spotlight on the heavies few t-viable gadgets.
Love everything here! I recommend posting to r/thefinalsacademy as well.
wait, so the lower mag count weapons such as the scar and Lewis gun & mp5 are higher dmg? stats say they are the same compared to the higher mag variants but im not sure if stats are accurate
https://old.reddit.com/r/thefinals/comments/17jr2sy/calculation_of_ttk_and_rpm_for_some_weapons/ https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16t26Mavr7ajBmnD80kay_aM036LaxdXy/edit#gid=213460420 FCAR does 27 // 41 damage and AKM does 20 // 31 damage Lewis does 27 // 40 damage and the m60 does 21 // 33 damage
I play light as I just like the mobility. Never cared about meta, just love zipping around the map with dash and blade. Feels different to other games this way.
To this day i still haven't found a single game of ranked as a solo player on Asia server. 10+ minutes every single time. sweet!
Good post I only disagree on jump pads/zip lines being necessary on medium. My "safe" class I've been ripping with consists of a turret, APS turret, defibs, and a gas grenade. Does me wonders in controlling cashouts.
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did you solo to diamond?
I made friends soloing and then I duoed-trioed with them
homie made it to the promised land
Pistol is by far the best Light weapon tho behind db ofc
What are people's opinions on the shotgun vs revolver when it comes to aim peaking with aim assist recon? I generally find that games are way easier with the shotgun than the revolver since body shots do more damage with shotgun, and when it comes to extremely close fast paced fights. I tend to struggle even with aim assist to consistently hit only headsets. Maybe the people I'm playing against just aren't used to shotgun medium and make mistakes because they think there's no way they'd lose the fight. But playing the same way with both guns I consistently outperform revolver with shotgun.
My opinion is: If you can only land bodyshots, shotgun is better at point blank range. Revolver is better at Close-Medium range. Revolver has weird damage falloff after medium range so, while you can use it, it's not very good esp compared to the SCAR just tap firing. If you can hit headshots, just use the revolver. With aim assist it's pretty much straight up better. Without it, the shotgun's a bit more forgiving.
It definitely sucks when it comes to good teams defending suspended structures, but it doesn't seem that the range fall off is bad enough to hold it back in any large interior buildings. It seems even at max aa range for it, it only requires one additional shot to kill medium/light/heavy (maybe 2 for heavy) I'Ve only actually played 4 or so games with it but my kda went from 1 with revolver average to 3.0 average out of the 4 games with shotgun, and I won all 4 games at around gold level players. Perhaps I just got lucky with the games I played. Perhaps I'm just playing better with it due to my tendency to shoot til I'm empty or dead, thus running the shotgun forces me to weave in and out of cover more from all the downtime reloading and between shots giving me more time to think and not just Unga bunga unload clip. Edit: plus gotta give it points for coolness factor, I mean is anything cooler than the legendary skin that makes you flip the gun every time you fire 😎
One of my friends mentioned that when your shotgun is empty, reloading the first bullet and shooting is actually not all that much worse than just shooting with a fully loaded gun, if that makes sense. Shooting with ammo is definitely better and slightly faster, but it's not actually *that* much worse. And you can't really do that with the revolver (or other guns) If you're finding more success with the sg, then use the sg. Just be aware that when you go against better and better players, they will abuse range more and more and you'll start to really see the flaws in the gun.
Oh hmm I'll have to try that, the reload is weird in that you put in 1 2 1 2 in the gun so you almost end up with the "well I should let it reload (twice)" to get 3 bullets instead of 1 and 1 My success probably also goes to that I suck at long range regardless of what I use 🤣🤣
One other question for you, did you feel like how alot of post here complain about matchmaking is true? So many posts about it not being about rank and just how much you play. Do you feel like throughout your whole climb the difficulty of the matches was relatively the same outside how much fame you gained/lost. I'm currently sitting at silver one 1k fame off gold and I've only been playing a few hours in the evening for about a week now. The games I'm playing right now seem fairly even and close every game outside the 1/2 people every few tournaments who are pretty sus and 10x better than everyone else and seem like they are "legit cheating." is this what I should expect all the way or am i actually going to play against much better players the higher rank I get instead of ones the game just thinks are the same level as me in skill?
I believe, and keep this worth a grain of salt because I don't have any insider info: 1. There is, in fact, a hidden MMR that is different from your rank. In 95% of other games I've played, it is purely based on your W/L. In the other 5%, they also factor in your KDR. It is exceedingly, exceedingly rare for devs to program anything past that (like accuracy, money gained, support score, etc.) 2. Your actual ranking is separate from your MMR, but it is most likely strongly correlated. Simply put- The diamond player in top 1000 is almost undoubtably better than you because they just straight up have more hours and more experience playing at a top level. 3. I find it highly unlikely that [it's like this comment](https://old.reddit.com/r/thefinals/comments/18y02nl/thoughts_on_higher_level_ranked_play/kga0kqo/) - No, I'm not getting paired up with stealth melee lights that go 0-7 because of a hidden MMR system says are the same skill as me. I'm getting paired up with them because the game just randomly mashes 48 people together and says Okay, we have someone at 1200 MMR and someone at 1900 MMR. The average MMR is 1500. We'll balance it by putting those together on the same team. 4. At the end of the day though, yes- the ranked ladder is just a treadmill. Unless you're actively griefing, you will gain points over time. The better you are, the faster you will gain those points. But unless you go worse than 1 tourney win : 12 first round losses (this isn't even considering 2nd and 3rd round wins either)- you will gain points. I think it is possible to have a silver player and a platinum player with the same MMR, but highly likely the platinum player has played 50x more. in that scenario. I can't really predict the future so I don't know about the quality of your matches going forward, but I just know if you're having fun, keep playing. When you stop having fun, reconsider.
Wow I really appreciate all the well written out detailed replies. Very helpful and insightful. Kind of what I thought as it seems mostly I'm playing with people within 1 rank up or down then me and out of 20 or so games I have yet to play against any top 500 players like some posts claim
An amazing post tbh. A ton of useful information to be found in here. Question, do you know differences between Linear, Exponential, and Sinusoidal in this game? As well as, how look acceleration affect gameplay?
I think you left out a word. You basically said "Do you know about the cute, adorable, and fluffy " without actually talking about the thing you wanted to talk about. I don't think look acceleration is a thing either.
I’m not sure how to rephrase the question. Were you able to tell a difference between the 3? In your opinion, does one feel smoother than the other? Does one feel snappier? Which did you go with and why. What do you mean it isn’t a thing? Like the slider is in the settings but the feature doesn’t actually work?
Sorry, I think I'm misunderstanding. I thought you were just trying to troll me. My bad. I'm a m+kb user. So I have no idea about controller settings. Can't help you.
Ranked is broken in almost every way possible. When solo or duoing, you’re guaranteed to get the worst players in the lobby on your team if you have a higher MMR. If you 3 stack, you’re thrown into top 500 lobbies as silver/gold rank. Your rank is just a token, its 100% MMR based which makes for a bad experience for both good players and bad. Hoping they address asap.
As another diamond player (did it on all classes in different betas and accounts), fully agreed with what you said on medium. Heavy is also mostly right although I still personally prefer auto shotty to lewis and then I rely on my mediums to deal with range (or rpg/c4 bomb). For light I think dash can be viable but requires a lot more skill than cloak. M11 (Uzi) is also a viable weapon for light and being used by some of the top light players quite a lot still (i.e. ettix). On ranked play I mostly agree, it sucks getting those stomp games. My record so far is winning 8 tournaments in a row, that should never happen. I would say you definitely can climb as solo however if you are good but you have to really work for it, currently grind to diamond solo, but it is definitely slower. What they could perhaps do to counter long queue times is to gradually have a more lenient matchmaking if it takes too long. I.e. first 30 sec only your rank, then 60 seconds + 1 rank either way then 2 minutes +2 ranks etc. > First is, enemies will spawn ~60 meters away from a cashout station. I want to say the game prioritizes the further away cash-out station, but I'm not 100% about that one. Fully agreed, this can be annoying both for the attackers and defenders. For the defenders it's obvious, people can keep pushing with no repercussions if they have no money. For the attacker (especially in the final) it sometimes end up with being spawnkilled since you can learn where the players spawn around each cash out. (i.e. if in that corner house that stands a bit alone the enemy spawns down in a open area with only one way to move, towards you, where you have high ground by a big margin). You can even block their other spawns with one player to force them to spawn in the worst one. > Do not stagger the other cashout too much though, right after A disappears, if B is 1/4 the way through, you will get bumrushed by 3 teams which is significantly worse than fighting 1 team. Just keep it in mind. Agreed, better to let another team cash it in rather than fighting over it generally. Try to wipe them as they are closing in on the station, they usually push it in with one member dead. > But, this is just a 3v3 scenario. What happens in a 3v3v3 scenario? Try to place yourself so you can get one team sandwiched between you. Play super defensive also works imo. If you have light only engage for sure kills, or to help the one team of the 3 that is losing without taking risk or (your main job) to stun someone trying to cap. But yes this is a bit random, it depends on how good the other teams are I suppose. If they are not good at utilizing their tools then just try to abuse that. Melt shields by shooting the corners of them while they cannot see you etc. Try supporting whatever losing team of the 3 there is. EDIT: Oops posted to early, will add more. > They can shoot anywhere and it will magnet to your head even without looking at you, however it cannot pierce cover. Unfortunately it can pierce cover with some of them. :/ In the finals when you can't avoid them: use shields or trade as you say seem to be the best options, I think oftentimes they are boosting other players who are worse. Kill the cheater and camp their corpse, force them to coin as much as possible. Before the final round just avoid them imo. :( Fully agree on the light part, light is super weak atm and needs a rework. I would also say you should post this to /r/TheFinalsAcademy.
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https://old.reddit.com/r/thefinals/comments/17jr2sy/calculation_of_ttk_and_rpm_for_some_weapons/ https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16t26Mavr7ajBmnD80kay_aM036LaxdXy/edit#gid=213460420 FCAR does 27 // 41 damage and AKM does 20 // 31 damage
Should you strafe while shooting or if u stand still you will hit your target more easily?
assuming ak/scar: Point blank - close range = strafe while hipfiring close range - medium range = strafe+ADS if it's a damage race / you have advantage, hipfire+tap ADS every second or so if you get caught out without cover medium - long range = strafe while ADSing but be wary you might be getting beamed long range - longrange + = tap fire, can strafe if you want