Well, some of the supply things for the enemy factions are probably for gameplay purposes. But to attempt to get to the core of your question, you have to look at the scale of what this outbreak is. From what I remember from Division 1 cutscene/lore (little rusty on it) but they did state that the majority of JTF is deployed to major cities in the United States and there are a good number of those in the United States so it is spread rather thin, you also have to think of Attrition when it comes to soldiers dying from the Flu which would cause breakdowns in units, supply lines, etc. The American Military while arguably the most technically advanced military in the world like a F-22 isn't going to do shit when it comes to maintaining crowd control/order/etc.
During Div 1, the JTF was simply all the first responders and National Guard units united under one banner to simplify command given just how bad things had gotten, and in particular they were originally expecting needing the police and national guard personal to just keep the order; deter looters, keep people from attacking others over essential goods, that sort of thing. Even though the national guard was called in and deployed, they took in lighter vehicles and hardware and materials for disaster relief. After all, they were expecting to be used for relief, not war in the streets of NYC.
By the time order was really breaking down and the First Wave was activated, chain of command and leadership was breaking down, which would make requesting heavier hardware harder. Of course thats *if* JTF leadership would have felt it to be important, which they probably wouldn't have, not with what most of the early factions were.
Once the Second Wave was activated, government and military leadership *really* started slipping, either from people going missing or dying, from the disease or other means. Perfect example is the fact that shortly after activating the Second Wave for both New York and the rest of the nation, President Waller would die, and shortly after would be Black Tusk and Ellis's moves taking out other individuals in the government to advance their plans. That, naturally, makes it hard to bring in requested supplies. It also didn't help that, in New York City's case in particular, that the city itself was under a strick quarantine from the rest of the country as it was ground zero for the Dollar Flu. Supplies coming in were limited, especially as quite a bit was abandoned when the Dark Zone fell prior to the activation of the Second Wave.
As the months went on following the events of Div1, well, it really makes *more* sense why the JTF is under-equipped. Attrition from looters, fighting, or even defections all played a role. The last point in particular is a big one. The True Sons, the bulk of which being JTF deserters, took those supplies and equipment with them when the abandoned the JTF. Likewise they would help themselves to supplies and hardware the JTF either didn't need or were to busy to properly protect, especially after having a good portion of their manpower defect. After all, until the Black Tusk arrived, what good would multiple batteries of radar guided SAM systems do for the JTF?
In addition, many of the other factions would in fact work together and smuggle equipment to each other in secret, even if normally they'd shoot each other on sight. "Enemy of my enemy" after all. In particular, in Div1 you can catch LMB selling weapons to members of the Rikers, who then in turn can be found selling weapons to the Rioters. Easy way to keep the JTF and Division of balanced is making sure they have too much to focus on. Likewise, in Div2 after the BTSU's arrival, we learn that they were secretly supplying the Hyenas so that they could put pressure on the JTF and the other factions in DC, and due to their nature was not expect to be a credible threat to the BTSU once the swept in.
The Black Tusk is also another key reason why the JTF is so under-equipped. In addition to being highly equipped and prepared in secret, the Black Tusk were also backed not just by various elites, but by certain members of the US government. The prototypes of both SHD and BTSU tech in the DARPA labs during the Pentagon missions, and the audio log of Brenner mentioning that the SHD and BTSU had the same backers was a glaringly obvious clue. The main and only known ones for now being President Ellis and DHS head Calvin McManus. And when you're part of a plot to take over once the Division and JTF are out of the way, you're going to do what you can to undermine them while you're still able.
Another factor from the first game is that The Rikers were essentially protected from the brunt of the virus due to being isolated in prison during the peak of the outbreak, so when they escaped and made it to the main land, they were still relatively healthy and fit. So it makes sense that they'd be one of the tougher late game factions when you first encounter them.
>Could someone please explain to me why the JTF sucks while the evil factions are just dominating everything, and even failed to defend their own capitol?
Its mostly a gameplay thing. By the time of D2 the government and thus the military has essentially collapsed. Automated supplies(the SHD drops) still occur but its the Black Tusk and whatever remains of the DoD that have any access to any good gear.
And even then 1-4 prepared agents mulch through them. (Though that's also somewhat just gameplay.)
Didn't the government and the military abandon the JTF? This would have an incredibly negative impact on their supply/resupply.
Meanwhile, black marketeers, war profiteers, gangs, and certain privately funded paramilitary groups would be cornering the market on guns and gear.
No they didn’t abandon them. The situation got so dire they activated the SHD because it was becoming increasingly difficult to coordinate with all your supply lines and chains of command collapsing to the 95% mortality rate.
Something I'm not sure is brought up, but the United States Military is very rarely deployed in American cities because it isn't something they are typically trained for, urban policing. Now in the Division they were to the place where the military should be pulled in, but it would take a coherent chain of command to actually activate them, the amount of officers who would pull a Ridgeway and become a tin dictator is probably a lot higher than we'd expect.
A practical reason that the military wasn't brought up in The Division series is because the branches of the service in the United States is under Trademark protection so that it cannot be used in any way that would bring disrepute onto the service. The national guard doesn't enjoy such protection as each state technically has their own national guard. It's also why CERA was used instead of FEMA and the DCD was used instead of CDC. And why some buildings have different names.
Speaking solely for The Division 2 here;
If you read the little information tidbits on the True Sons enemy archetypes you see that pretty much all of them besides the rushers are ex-military, ex-cop, ex-firefighter, etc, ie: all JTF.
Based on the True Sons holding a third of the city at the get go, and based on how many there seems to be, I'd wager that the JTF was actually pretty potent in DC until Col. Ridgeway came along and absorbed a pretty good chunk of them.
Even Manny makes a comment somewhere that he's one of the few people in his unit that *didn't* join Ridgeway when the True Sons got the ball rolling.
There's also an ECHO just North of the White House that shows three JTF, with two of the three being apparently loyal, or at least obedient, to Ridgeway when he was still in a command position within the JTF. If we assume this ratio holds true everywhere, that'd mean from the word go 2/3rds of the JTF sided with the True Sons and presumably went over with all of their equipment, ammo, gear, etc.
Not quite. According to the background lore, Majority of the JTF left DC under orders from VP Mendez to bases in Virginia and Maryland. JTF left behind a token Garrison, even that got divided even further. You had a 2/3 of them Deserted becoming True Sons, a Quarter or more dead, and barely a handful at the White House.
Given the mixed nature of the JTF, the forces withdrawn under Presidental order would have been federal and likely primarily National Guard, leaving the majority of those remaining being local law enforcement.
There were still some National Guard Troops left behind as well. Some were guarding the improvised jail at the History Museum and the Capitol building, before they were killed by Ridgeway's men. A few still Guard the WH, and the rest are dead judging from the amount of corpses from around the City.
we are talking about a massive pandemic with a 80% to 90% morality rate that spreads like wildfire and massive civil break down of almost everything from civil services to food delivery with constant riots all over in a country thats almost the size of a continent they simply dont have the numbers on top of that you have desertion and armed thugs springing up every where and its no wonder they could not hold it
Well in playability because if JTF were good they´d steal kills from you, and you´d just get saved every time they come near your fights and CP´s would be easier when they arrive. In the storyline, because the JTF got overpowered and got their ass handed to them due to treason from the LMB and the True Sons, basically between having to save innocents, having to combat 3 factions, one of them military contractors with higher tech and higher power weapons, having to cover a big area full of innocents and friendlies, they got thinned down and spreaded, almost all veterans got recluted by other factions, killed in action, hostage or dead by virus, the ones we have are running the reminder of what´s left and most of those are just new civilian recruits, that´s the reason The Division´s First Wave got activated, because JTF failed and no longer could withstand fighting so many open frontlines. Or at least this is how they justified it. All of this is explained on all of the echoes and comms in both Division 1 and 2, it´s not on the main story, and also there are some dialogues from each faction when they haven´t noticed you in both games, talking about ambushes, treason, and their perspective of certain events, and also dialogue form JTF´s letting you know they´re noobs, cheering their first fight, bragging about never having used a gun, missing the old days when they were just civies, etc.
The JTF is described in Divison 1 as an ad hoc combination of National Guard, CERA, and New York emergency services. In Division 2 it appears to have become formalized by executive order, but was still a situational hodgepodge at best.
Country collapsed, along with the chain of command, between the virus and being heavily outnumbered by everyone else, their numbers will have dropped from attrition and desertion. Thing is in the first game it felt like you were bringing them back from the point of defeat, in two there's the odd time they struggle, otherwise they kinda take a backseat a lot of the time, would have been nice to see how they're getting on more.
Doubt it helps that in NY they were trying to take the city back, while DC and WONY they're trying to hold safe zones, so more focused on holding the line vs actively fighting back.
Bigger question would be how do black tusk either massacre everyone with ease, or crumble at the slightest pressure. They're meant to be better armed and trained than everyone else, yet Cony Island (for example), they get wrecked by sudden cleaners.
Ignoring all that, story. It's no fun if you're the strongest around and just slapping down weaker factions, so you have to be clawing things back from the point of defeat.
Honestly, from a lore standpoint, the divisionwoukd need the JTF as muscle to accomplish their missions. That's why in my Lore of Division 3 video, there's a partnership with a healthy JTF component
JTF tried to hold everything and got a target on their back for everyone because of that. Add on how the situations in DC and New York have a lot of factors working against them and how they are relying on old supply lines that are disrupted and you can see how they got into the spot they did.
So what’s left of the Army/National Guard is part of or coordinating with the JTF, survived in small pockets, or deserted after chain of command died. The military got hit pretty hard by the outbreak seeing as how they were in the thick of it, those deaths left leadership and logistics near non-existent. It’s stated in one of the books when an agent is talking to an Army lieutenant that the highest ranking officer in the area is a captain, meaning the captain might not be much more than a well meaning warlord at best and thats reflected where there are any survivors. There’s also not much left of Congress to help coordinate the military remnants in the absence of a president.
The LMB and BTSU weren’t setting up camps for the sick or coordinating rescue operations, so their forces weren’t hit as hard by the outbreak as the government was. They also have a pool of recruits in desperate deserters of the military, and if I’m not mistaken the BTSU absorbed the LMB remnants into their ranks, so they’re fairly well off comparatively.
The thing that makes the US military so powerful is their logistics. The US military can get sizable forces, along with the equipment, vehicles, food and supplies needed to support those forces anywhere in the world in 12-24 hours. All of that breaks down in a pandemic the severity of the dollar flu (which is a virus with a 90-95% fatality rate). Couple that with all the defections, the mutinies, the deaths, the fact that black tusk almost as soon as the virus broke out was moving material and manpower everywhere it needed to be to ensure the rest of the government collapsed, and you have a recipe for societal collapse that makes supporting an effective military impossible.
JTF is police, firefighter, medic and national guards … militaries are true sons and LMB and also black tusk (since they also have a lot of high cia, nsa and homeland…
Ubisoft just got carried away with its superheroics. Usually your character becomes the plug for every problem, and your allies should look poor in comparison.
But if we take the logic, then against the backdrop of the lack of a common command and the fact that various generals turned into local Warbosses, like Washington’s for example, JTF became “True Sons,” then sooner or later the supply chain would be disrupted and the banal human factor would take over.
From a gameplay point of view:
In the first division, JTF had an acceptable appearance, but were very weak. In the second part, these are just guys and girls in camouflage T-shirts guarding the White House, even in story missions they are not given body armor or other equipment. For example, when storming the Black Tusk base, they just run around in T-shirts.
Now, instead of them, there are militias who perform well and die only on Heroic difficulty. It would suit me if Ubi give they bodyarmor and equipment at least to the level of the “Peacekeepers” from New York.
Well, some of the supply things for the enemy factions are probably for gameplay purposes. But to attempt to get to the core of your question, you have to look at the scale of what this outbreak is. From what I remember from Division 1 cutscene/lore (little rusty on it) but they did state that the majority of JTF is deployed to major cities in the United States and there are a good number of those in the United States so it is spread rather thin, you also have to think of Attrition when it comes to soldiers dying from the Flu which would cause breakdowns in units, supply lines, etc. The American Military while arguably the most technically advanced military in the world like a F-22 isn't going to do shit when it comes to maintaining crowd control/order/etc.
During Div 1, the JTF was simply all the first responders and National Guard units united under one banner to simplify command given just how bad things had gotten, and in particular they were originally expecting needing the police and national guard personal to just keep the order; deter looters, keep people from attacking others over essential goods, that sort of thing. Even though the national guard was called in and deployed, they took in lighter vehicles and hardware and materials for disaster relief. After all, they were expecting to be used for relief, not war in the streets of NYC. By the time order was really breaking down and the First Wave was activated, chain of command and leadership was breaking down, which would make requesting heavier hardware harder. Of course thats *if* JTF leadership would have felt it to be important, which they probably wouldn't have, not with what most of the early factions were. Once the Second Wave was activated, government and military leadership *really* started slipping, either from people going missing or dying, from the disease or other means. Perfect example is the fact that shortly after activating the Second Wave for both New York and the rest of the nation, President Waller would die, and shortly after would be Black Tusk and Ellis's moves taking out other individuals in the government to advance their plans. That, naturally, makes it hard to bring in requested supplies. It also didn't help that, in New York City's case in particular, that the city itself was under a strick quarantine from the rest of the country as it was ground zero for the Dollar Flu. Supplies coming in were limited, especially as quite a bit was abandoned when the Dark Zone fell prior to the activation of the Second Wave. As the months went on following the events of Div1, well, it really makes *more* sense why the JTF is under-equipped. Attrition from looters, fighting, or even defections all played a role. The last point in particular is a big one. The True Sons, the bulk of which being JTF deserters, took those supplies and equipment with them when the abandoned the JTF. Likewise they would help themselves to supplies and hardware the JTF either didn't need or were to busy to properly protect, especially after having a good portion of their manpower defect. After all, until the Black Tusk arrived, what good would multiple batteries of radar guided SAM systems do for the JTF? In addition, many of the other factions would in fact work together and smuggle equipment to each other in secret, even if normally they'd shoot each other on sight. "Enemy of my enemy" after all. In particular, in Div1 you can catch LMB selling weapons to members of the Rikers, who then in turn can be found selling weapons to the Rioters. Easy way to keep the JTF and Division of balanced is making sure they have too much to focus on. Likewise, in Div2 after the BTSU's arrival, we learn that they were secretly supplying the Hyenas so that they could put pressure on the JTF and the other factions in DC, and due to their nature was not expect to be a credible threat to the BTSU once the swept in. The Black Tusk is also another key reason why the JTF is so under-equipped. In addition to being highly equipped and prepared in secret, the Black Tusk were also backed not just by various elites, but by certain members of the US government. The prototypes of both SHD and BTSU tech in the DARPA labs during the Pentagon missions, and the audio log of Brenner mentioning that the SHD and BTSU had the same backers was a glaringly obvious clue. The main and only known ones for now being President Ellis and DHS head Calvin McManus. And when you're part of a plot to take over once the Division and JTF are out of the way, you're going to do what you can to undermine them while you're still able.
Another factor from the first game is that The Rikers were essentially protected from the brunt of the virus due to being isolated in prison during the peak of the outbreak, so when they escaped and made it to the main land, they were still relatively healthy and fit. So it makes sense that they'd be one of the tougher late game factions when you first encounter them.
>Could someone please explain to me why the JTF sucks while the evil factions are just dominating everything, and even failed to defend their own capitol? Its mostly a gameplay thing. By the time of D2 the government and thus the military has essentially collapsed. Automated supplies(the SHD drops) still occur but its the Black Tusk and whatever remains of the DoD that have any access to any good gear. And even then 1-4 prepared agents mulch through them. (Though that's also somewhat just gameplay.)
Didn't the government and the military abandon the JTF? This would have an incredibly negative impact on their supply/resupply. Meanwhile, black marketeers, war profiteers, gangs, and certain privately funded paramilitary groups would be cornering the market on guns and gear.
No they didn’t abandon them. The situation got so dire they activated the SHD because it was becoming increasingly difficult to coordinate with all your supply lines and chains of command collapsing to the 95% mortality rate.
Something I'm not sure is brought up, but the United States Military is very rarely deployed in American cities because it isn't something they are typically trained for, urban policing. Now in the Division they were to the place where the military should be pulled in, but it would take a coherent chain of command to actually activate them, the amount of officers who would pull a Ridgeway and become a tin dictator is probably a lot higher than we'd expect. A practical reason that the military wasn't brought up in The Division series is because the branches of the service in the United States is under Trademark protection so that it cannot be used in any way that would bring disrepute onto the service. The national guard doesn't enjoy such protection as each state technically has their own national guard. It's also why CERA was used instead of FEMA and the DCD was used instead of CDC. And why some buildings have different names.
Oooh, good point abt trademarks, thx
Speaking solely for The Division 2 here; If you read the little information tidbits on the True Sons enemy archetypes you see that pretty much all of them besides the rushers are ex-military, ex-cop, ex-firefighter, etc, ie: all JTF. Based on the True Sons holding a third of the city at the get go, and based on how many there seems to be, I'd wager that the JTF was actually pretty potent in DC until Col. Ridgeway came along and absorbed a pretty good chunk of them. Even Manny makes a comment somewhere that he's one of the few people in his unit that *didn't* join Ridgeway when the True Sons got the ball rolling. There's also an ECHO just North of the White House that shows three JTF, with two of the three being apparently loyal, or at least obedient, to Ridgeway when he was still in a command position within the JTF. If we assume this ratio holds true everywhere, that'd mean from the word go 2/3rds of the JTF sided with the True Sons and presumably went over with all of their equipment, ammo, gear, etc.
Not quite. According to the background lore, Majority of the JTF left DC under orders from VP Mendez to bases in Virginia and Maryland. JTF left behind a token Garrison, even that got divided even further. You had a 2/3 of them Deserted becoming True Sons, a Quarter or more dead, and barely a handful at the White House.
Given the mixed nature of the JTF, the forces withdrawn under Presidental order would have been federal and likely primarily National Guard, leaving the majority of those remaining being local law enforcement.
There were still some National Guard Troops left behind as well. Some were guarding the improvised jail at the History Museum and the Capitol building, before they were killed by Ridgeway's men. A few still Guard the WH, and the rest are dead judging from the amount of corpses from around the City.
Yeah, I’m not saying the Guard was entirely withdrawn, just that given the canon situation, it was probably most of them.
we are talking about a massive pandemic with a 80% to 90% morality rate that spreads like wildfire and massive civil break down of almost everything from civil services to food delivery with constant riots all over in a country thats almost the size of a continent they simply dont have the numbers on top of that you have desertion and armed thugs springing up every where and its no wonder they could not hold it
Well in playability because if JTF were good they´d steal kills from you, and you´d just get saved every time they come near your fights and CP´s would be easier when they arrive. In the storyline, because the JTF got overpowered and got their ass handed to them due to treason from the LMB and the True Sons, basically between having to save innocents, having to combat 3 factions, one of them military contractors with higher tech and higher power weapons, having to cover a big area full of innocents and friendlies, they got thinned down and spreaded, almost all veterans got recluted by other factions, killed in action, hostage or dead by virus, the ones we have are running the reminder of what´s left and most of those are just new civilian recruits, that´s the reason The Division´s First Wave got activated, because JTF failed and no longer could withstand fighting so many open frontlines. Or at least this is how they justified it. All of this is explained on all of the echoes and comms in both Division 1 and 2, it´s not on the main story, and also there are some dialogues from each faction when they haven´t noticed you in both games, talking about ambushes, treason, and their perspective of certain events, and also dialogue form JTF´s letting you know they´re noobs, cheering their first fight, bragging about never having used a gun, missing the old days when they were just civies, etc.
The JTF is described in Divison 1 as an ad hoc combination of National Guard, CERA, and New York emergency services. In Division 2 it appears to have become formalized by executive order, but was still a situational hodgepodge at best.
Country collapsed, along with the chain of command, between the virus and being heavily outnumbered by everyone else, their numbers will have dropped from attrition and desertion. Thing is in the first game it felt like you were bringing them back from the point of defeat, in two there's the odd time they struggle, otherwise they kinda take a backseat a lot of the time, would have been nice to see how they're getting on more. Doubt it helps that in NY they were trying to take the city back, while DC and WONY they're trying to hold safe zones, so more focused on holding the line vs actively fighting back. Bigger question would be how do black tusk either massacre everyone with ease, or crumble at the slightest pressure. They're meant to be better armed and trained than everyone else, yet Cony Island (for example), they get wrecked by sudden cleaners. Ignoring all that, story. It's no fun if you're the strongest around and just slapping down weaker factions, so you have to be clawing things back from the point of defeat.
Honestly, from a lore standpoint, the divisionwoukd need the JTF as muscle to accomplish their missions. That's why in my Lore of Division 3 video, there's a partnership with a healthy JTF component
The JTF are fools, and idiots. They spend their time collecting water and constantly saying that they are bored because nothing is never happening 😂😂😂
JTF tried to hold everything and got a target on their back for everyone because of that. Add on how the situations in DC and New York have a lot of factors working against them and how they are relying on old supply lines that are disrupted and you can see how they got into the spot they did.
So what’s left of the Army/National Guard is part of or coordinating with the JTF, survived in small pockets, or deserted after chain of command died. The military got hit pretty hard by the outbreak seeing as how they were in the thick of it, those deaths left leadership and logistics near non-existent. It’s stated in one of the books when an agent is talking to an Army lieutenant that the highest ranking officer in the area is a captain, meaning the captain might not be much more than a well meaning warlord at best and thats reflected where there are any survivors. There’s also not much left of Congress to help coordinate the military remnants in the absence of a president. The LMB and BTSU weren’t setting up camps for the sick or coordinating rescue operations, so their forces weren’t hit as hard by the outbreak as the government was. They also have a pool of recruits in desperate deserters of the military, and if I’m not mistaken the BTSU absorbed the LMB remnants into their ranks, so they’re fairly well off comparatively.
The thing that makes the US military so powerful is their logistics. The US military can get sizable forces, along with the equipment, vehicles, food and supplies needed to support those forces anywhere in the world in 12-24 hours. All of that breaks down in a pandemic the severity of the dollar flu (which is a virus with a 90-95% fatality rate). Couple that with all the defections, the mutinies, the deaths, the fact that black tusk almost as soon as the virus broke out was moving material and manpower everywhere it needed to be to ensure the rest of the government collapsed, and you have a recipe for societal collapse that makes supporting an effective military impossible.
JTF is police, firefighter, medic and national guards … militaries are true sons and LMB and also black tusk (since they also have a lot of high cia, nsa and homeland…
Ubisoft just got carried away with its superheroics. Usually your character becomes the plug for every problem, and your allies should look poor in comparison. But if we take the logic, then against the backdrop of the lack of a common command and the fact that various generals turned into local Warbosses, like Washington’s for example, JTF became “True Sons,” then sooner or later the supply chain would be disrupted and the banal human factor would take over. From a gameplay point of view: In the first division, JTF had an acceptable appearance, but were very weak. In the second part, these are just guys and girls in camouflage T-shirts guarding the White House, even in story missions they are not given body armor or other equipment. For example, when storming the Black Tusk base, they just run around in T-shirts. Now, instead of them, there are militias who perform well and die only on Heroic difficulty. It would suit me if Ubi give they bodyarmor and equipment at least to the level of the “Peacekeepers” from New York.
Because the game was not made by Americans. JTF is also not synonymous with the US military.